Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / May 2005
A Bad Habit Turned Good? :-)
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Ronny TX - 06 May 2005 07:33 GMT As far back as I can remember I've had what some would call a bad habit of wanting to stay up way too late at night!LoL But recently it's hit me that that's a good thing now. :-) Why? Because my Mom needs me more at night. That's when her Depends need changing more often and sometimes her sheets if the pads don't get everything. So now I don't have to feel "guilty" about my bad habit.:-) And I stay up a lot of times from say 10pm to 4 am or maybe 11 or 12 midnight to 4pm or so sometimes later.
One good thing too is that I can see Mom gets her meds at bedtime and in the morning and gets fed early on since she pretty well has a habit of waking up early. A lot of times how she will get up hungry from say 3 to 5am and so I just fix her breakfast then. Usually she goes back to bed and then I go and lay down myself. I can then get up a few hours later and later in the evening or early night,take another nap-with all outside doors locked of course. So far I like it better this way. And of course,this only works because Mom doesn't have to have someone watching her 24/7. If that were the case,then my way would not work well at all!
Dennis P. Harris - 06 May 2005 08:02 GMT > And of > course,this only works because Mom doesn't have to have someone watching > her 24/7. If that were the case,then my way would not work well at all! and that's why you have to plan for that time when she can't be left alone. i hope that you have a plan already?
Ronny TX - 07 May 2005 09:23 GMT > Re: A Bad Habit Turned Good? :-) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > her 24/7. If that were the case,then my > way would not work well at all!
> Dennis > and that's why you have to plan for that > time when she can't be left alone. i > hope that you have a plan already? > --- Ronny: Nope,I don't. Not sure if my 4 older brothers & 2 older sisters do or not?
I do know one of my brothers who lives the closest has POA for Mom. And my next oldest sis and her husband watch out for his Mom,who I think also has Alzheimers. Got her to move in next door to them a few years ago and then later she went in the nursing home that is right up the street when she was no longer able to take care of herself. So they know all what goes on with doing that.
Me,I just know that older people around here stay home as long as they can and then usually go in one of several local nursing homes. And I would think most people around here do their best to have their older loved one on Medicaid long before that happens,if they can at all. And then there is the much newer assisted living/nursing home place;but then that's for people who are very well to do.
Dennis P. Harris - 07 May 2005 19:55 GMT > > Dennis > > and that's why you have to plan for that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I do know one of my brothers who lives the closest has POA for Mom. then you need to talk to him about plans for when your mother will NOT be safe when left alone, because from your account of her behavior it may not be long. you need to overcome the denial that's probably going on and convince whoever in your family would make the decision that you need to get her on a a waiting list NOW. otherwise, you could find yourself placing her in the least desirable place during a crisis.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 May 2005 20:38 GMT >> > Dennis >> > and that's why you have to plan for that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > list NOW. otherwise, you could find yourself placing her in the > least desirable place during a crisis. Yes, and to some degree that depends on the location, because some places the choices are limited. In our area there were about 5 to pick from. One was in the process of closing up due to so many violations, another was being investigated in the papers due to something similar. One was too far away, that left two, and they were the better choices anyway.
Remember that by this time you are usually pretty frazzled anyway, and every minor obstacle or bit of red tape is a big deal. There was a huge amount of paperwork involved, and when your loved one is ready to be placed, you are usually at the end of your rope anyway and not much in the mood to deal with it. There are medical tests required, and any little thing that can delay it, will stop the process.
If you are going with Medicaid, that is a hassle too, with lots of paperwork and research to do. We actually paid our lawyer to help us with it all. I am sure we could have managed it ourselves completely, were we not so exhausted.
The first choice nursing home we picked didn't come through for about 4 months, and Ida was next in line on their waiting list! That may not sound like much, but when you wait as long as we did, every day was hard, and we were getting very little sleep. (We had taken her out of daycare, as she was well beyond it). She was falling down all the time. You don't know it is going to get like that until it actually happens!
Fortunately our second choice nursing home had an opening, and we took it after about two months had passed. When her name came up on our first choice home later on, we decided to leave her where she was and just skip it, and I am glad we did. They were very good to her where she was, and another change of scenery with new people and all would not have been good for her.
I will never forget the relief we felt that first month after placing her. I was sad to do it, but we were so grateful that we could finally get a good nights sleep, or go to the store without a babysitter. We almost didn't know what to do with ourselves anymore, we were so used to being on constant duty!
 Signature Best Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Evelyn Ruut - 06 May 2005 12:46 GMT > As far back as I can remember I've had what some would call a bad habit > of wanting to stay up way too late at night!LoL But recently it's hit me [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > course,this only works because Mom doesn't have to have someone watching > her 24/7. If that were the case,then my way would not work well at all! Hi Ronny,
I hope you can keep up that pace, eventually Peter and I had a deal; He took the "night shift" getting up with her at night, changing, cleaning up, whatever happened, and I took the "day shift" dressing and undressing, making her food and all of that.
You can't do it all, so plan ahead for the time when the situation gets more demanding.
We found that if we waited until the situation demanded a change in our arrangements, that it was often "too late" before we got the new changes implemented. Planning in advance is never a bad thing.
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Best Regards, Evelyn
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?index (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Ronny TX - 07 May 2005 10:25 GMT > Re: A Bad Habit Turned Good? :-) > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > her 24/7. If that were the case,then my > way would not work well at all!
> Evelyn: > Hi Ronny, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > shift" dressing and undressing, making > her food and all of that. Ronny: Evelyn,this is the part I don't know and need to ask about. Do most people like my Mom,who are at home,end up needing someome to physically watch them 24 hours a day for their own safety? As you see right now I can go take a nap and Mom is OK by herself then-so far. Of course,I learned the hard way that I had to turn the electric cook stove off at the breaker box and fix the gas space heater so that she could not turn that off and on.
The only problem I have at times is Mom wanting me to get up instead of taking a nap. (ha) I laugh;but there is nothing funny about that when I'm really tired and give out! Or I know she would really rather I sleep in my recliner,by her hospital bed in the living room,rather then in my bed in my bedroom. I know she just gets worried/scared at times when she can't physically see me. Sometimes she comes to my bedroom several times as I read-right before I fall asleep and she wants me to come back in the other room. I tell her no,I want to sleep/nap in my comfortable bed.
:-) And that she needs to go lay down to,watch TV or take a nap. All of this can turn into quite a production :-) when she comes in my room several times right before I go to sleep. Sometimes she gets mad if I don't do as she wants;but most time she doesn't.
Sometimes I just keep my eyes closed and make like I'm asleep when she shakes my shoulder,etc. LoL And Mom was a NAide for years in our local hospital and many times when she comes in my room she will quickly checks my pulse and feels of my forehead. :-) I guess she's checking to see if I'm OK? :-) And if I keep quite she ends up going back to the living room and her bed.
And I do leave the TV going when I'm going to be sleeping.
> Evelyn: > You can't do it all, so plan ahead for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > implemented. Planning in advance is > never a bad thing. Ronny: The only next change I can see coming is when Mom has to go in a nursing home. I don't think the government will pay for/ provide more time for in home health care;but I need to check on that because I really don't know what is the maximum amount of time a person from a local home health care place could be here with her according to government regulations? [Thinking here about if she needed someone to physically keep an eye on her 24 hours a day,so that she didn't hurt herself,etc.] Doubt help would be provided say 12 hours a day,7 days a week.
I know last year one of my sisters asked me if I thought we shouldn't put Mom in a nursing home then? That really upset me because no,Mom didn't need a nursing home then and still doesn't yet. Now if she had to have constant watching 24 hours a day,that would be a whole different matter and yes she would need to be in a nursing home then.
Mom is so active a lot of the times and what gets to me is how would they handle that in a nursing home except to keep her drugged up and in bed? I mean,what else could they do since they don't have enough people to watch out for an active patient 24 hours a day.
I know the last two or three times Mom was in the hospital someone had to stay with her at all times. I stayed at night and even then she would be up and about sometimes if I fell asleep or went outside for a cigarette. If none of us had been available to stay with her,then they would have simply had to knock her out with some meds or keep her tied in bed somehow. And they found out in the hospital that bed rails do not work with Mom! :-) I think what she did with that was just scoot down to the end of the bed and get out that way?! LoL
I'm glad if was warm enough yesterday morning to have the front door open with the screen door locked. That way Mom got to look out and see the Mama Hen with her 14 baby chickens! :-) And she made sure I came to see them too! LoL
Then yesterday evening from 5:30 on I was out in the backyard working on a bird pen and feeding and seeing about the birds and Mama Cat and her 4 new kittens. Mom came out several times then even though it would of been better if she had stayed inside because she really wasn't feeling so hot. I would keep getting her to go back in the house and or helping her back in and then going back to work for a bit.
Really need a different chair out back for her to sit in-one easier for her to get out of. Right now we're using her old bath chair,which seems comfortable for her;but is a little too low. Need to check that-think I may can raise the height on it?
I was really give out by the time I got through with somethings about 8:30 last night! :-) Sore some too! LoL Got Mom fed and me too and fell asleep about 10:30. Woke up at 2:30 and now it's nearly 4:30. Mom's been up a few times, we've got her wet Depends changed and dry sheet on the bed. So far she's gone back to sleep after each getting up. I should probably go back to sleep too, :-) maybe in my recliner? Wish it were daylight already and I could be back out working on that little bird pen. Think daybreak is about an hour off though. Don't like too much and will have that pen finished up.
Better stop talking and go for now. :-)
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 07 May 2005 13:19 GMT Hi Ronny,
Just for your reference, here are the stages of Alzheimer's as defined by Dr. Reisberg. Sadly, everyone who lives into the later stages of AD does get to the point where they need 24/7 supervision and support (i.e. they can't be left alone at all).
Mary G.
Stages of Alzheimers
In 1982 Dr. Barry Reisberg published what was to become the best and most widely accepted description of the stages of Alzheimer's disease. Even today,years later, when experts referto a person being in stage 5 or stage 6, they are referring to Dr. Reisberg's scale of seven stages.
Adapted from Reisberg, B., Ferris, S.H., Leon, J.J. & Crook, T. The global deterioration scale for the assessment of primary degenerative dementia. American Journal of Psychiatry, 1982
Level 1
No cognitive decline - (or Normal Adult). No subjective complaints of memory deficit. No memory deficit evident on clinical interviews.
Level 2 Very mild cognitive decline (forgetfulness or normal older adult). Subjective complaints of memory deficit, most frequently in the following area: (a) forgetting where one has placed familiar objects; (b) forgetting names on formerly knew well. No objective evidence of memory deficit on clinical interview. No objective deficits in employment or social situations. Appropriate concern regarding symptoms.
Level 3 Mild cognitive decline (early confusional or Early AD). Earliest clear-cut deficits. Manifestations in more than one of the following areas: (a) patient may have gotten lost when traveling to an unfamiliar location; (b) co-workers become aware of patient's relatively low performance; (c) word and name finding deficit becomes evident to intimates; (d) patient may read a passage of a book and retain relatively little material; (e) patient may demonstrate decreased facility in remembering names upon introduction to new people; (f) patient may have lost or misplaced an object of value; (g) concentration deficit may be evident on clinical testing. Objective evidence of memory deficit obtained only with an intensive interview. Denial begins to become manifest in patient. Mild to moderate anxiety accompanies symptoms. Deficits noticed in demanding employment situations.
Level 4 Moderate cognitive decline (Late Confusional or Mild AD). Clear-cut deficit on careful clinical interview. Deficit manifest in following areas: (a) decreased knowledge of current and recent events; (b) may exhibit some deficit in memory of one's personal history; (c) concentration deficit elicited on serial subtractions; (d) decreased ability to travel, handle finances, etc.
Frequently no deficit in the following areas: (a) orientation to time and person; (b) recognition of familiar persons and faces; (c) ability to travel to familiar locations. Inability to perform complex tasks. Denial is dominant defense mechanism. Flattening of affect and withdrawl from challenging situations occur.
Level 5 Moderately severe cognitive decline (Early Dementia or moderate AD). Patient can no longer survive without some assistance. Patient is unable during interview to recall a major relevant aspect of their current lives, e.g., an address or telephone number of many years, the names of close family members (such as grandchildren), the name of the high school or college from which they graduated. Frequently some disorientation to time (date, day of week, season, etc.) or to place. An educated person may have difficulty counting back from 40 by 4s or from 20 by 2s. Persons at this stage retain knowledge of many major facts regarding themselves and others. They invariably know their own names and generally know their spouse's and children's names. They require no assistance with toileting and eating, but may have some difficulty choosing the proper clothing to wear.
Level 6 Severe cognitive decline (Middle Dementia or Moderately Severe AD). May occasionally forget the name of the spouse upon whom they are entirely dependent for survival. Will be largely unaware of all recent events and experiences in their lives. Retain some knowledge of their past lives but this is very sketchy. Generally unaware of their surroundings, the year, the season, etc. May have difficulty counting from 10, both backward and sometimes forward. Will require some assistance with activities of daily living, e.g., may become incontinent, will require travel assistance but occasionally will display ability to orient in familiar locations. Diurnal rhythm frequently disturbed. Almost always recall their own name. Frequently continue to be able to distinguish familiar from unfamiliar persons in their environment. Personality and emotional changes occur. These are quite variable and include (a) delusional behavior, e.g., paatients may accuse their spouse of being an impostor, may talk to imaginary figures in the environment, or to their own reflection in the mirror; (b) obsessive symptoms, e.g., person may continually repeat simple cleaning activities; (c) anxiety symptoms, agitation, and even previously nonexistent violent behavior may occur; (d) cognitive abulla, i.e., loss of willpower because an individual cannot carry a thought long enough to determine a purposeful course of action.
6a - Requires Assistance dressing 6b - Requires Assistance bathing properly 6c - Requires Assistance with mechanics of toileting 6d - Urinary incontinence 6e - Fecal incontinence
Level 7 Very severe cognitive decline (Late Dementia or Severe AD). All verbal abilities are lost. Frequently there is no speech at all - only grunting. Incontinent of urine, requires assistance toileting and feeding. Lose basic psychomotor skills, e.g., ability to walk, sitting and head control. The brain appears to no longer be able to tell the body what to do. Generalized and cortical neurologic signs and symptoms are frequently present.
7a - Speech ability limited to about a half-dozen intelligible words 7b - Intelligible vocabulary limited to a single word 7c - Ambulatory ability lost 7d - Ability to sit up lost 7e - Ability to smile lost 7f - Ability to hold up head lost
Evelyn Ruut - 07 May 2005 13:43 GMT I am grateful that Ida never made it to stage 7, or she was maybe just starting it.
 Signature Best Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
> Hi Ronny, > [quoted text clipped - 129 lines] > 7e - Ability to smile lost > 7f - Ability to hold up head lost Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 07 May 2005 14:55 GMT Forgot to mention, Ronny, that usually the first stop for a person with AD who has to go into some sort of institutional care is not a nursing home. Nursing homes are actually facilities for people who need skilled 24 hour nursing care, which is usually only necessary for someone who is in end stage AD, and is bedridden.
My MIL, for example, two or three years into her AD, first moved from her apartment to what they call an "assisted living facility" - the first place she went to was essentially sheltered and supportive living - they would help with bathing and dressing, and provided laundry, meals, activities, housekeeping, supervision of medications and a range of in-house services etc. but expected residents to be continent, ambulatory and able to get themselves to meals. They also didn't keep residents under lock and key (while she was there, she could have gone out the door any time, so obviously not a facility for a wanderer). They expected a degree of independence and orientation, ability to tell time, feed themselves, communicate. It was actually a really great place with tons of great opportunities for social and recreational activities and it was unfortunate that it was fine for her for only a year. After that she started getting lost in the building, she couldn't operate her door locks, couldn't be trusted with her own bathroom or access to the communal kitchenette for snacks, couldn't tell time and get to meals or activities, was having paranoid delusions about other residents etc. etc.
Her next move was to a locked and specialized Alzheimer's unit that provided security and more total supervision and support, but did expect the person to be ambulatory, and to be able to feed themselves. Fecal and urinary incontinence were okay - but they really needed the inmates to be able to walk, get in and out of bed and chairs etc. It was still assisted living, but a much more intense level of care - but it was still not classed as a "nursing home".
It wasn't until the AD took her ability to walk and feed herself that she had to go to what they defined as the heavy care ward within the same facility - which offered the degree of acute care that falls into a "nursing home" definition. Not all residents of that unit were cognitively impaired. Her roommate, for example, had some sort of neurological illness, so her mind was intact, but she was physically helpless, was very stiff and hard to dress and bathe, prone to bedsores, needed breathing support, and thus needed a lot of very specialized care - as did my MIL in late AD. It was much more expensive and took a lot more one on one care - but since none of the inmates could get around on their own, no lockdown!
Mary G.
Karen - 08 May 2005 01:02 GMT My MIL lived in a similar place at first, after she calmed down about having to be there. They had to keep her in the lock down area for 3 weeks and then she woke up one morning and decided she had put herself there! LOL! She didn't remember the 3 weeks of hysterical ranting (psych meds can be wonderful). And it was good for about a year and a half, then she started wandering.
When we were able to get her to come to our city (brought her a new luggage set for her vacation!) we had found a wonderful place that specializes only in "Memory Assisted Living". Some of the residents are in wheelchairs and can't get around by themselves, but that facility will keep them until the actually require nursing care (IVs and/or bedridden). Funny thing is that the place doesn't advertise and isn't listed in the yellow pages. They have a waiting list in spite of that. We found it through my podiatrist, who goes there for the diabetic patients.
Anyone looking might want to ask a few health care professionals, preferably gerantologists, neurologists or psychiatrists since they would have more experience with Alzheimer's.
Karen
> Forgot to mention, Ronny, that usually the first stop for a person with > AD who has to go into some sort of institutional care is not a nursing [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Mary G.
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