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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / April 2005Now I dont know what to believe
Ok bear with me a minute....back to the issue of my moms rent....series of events....checks came early...Mom got it before sis did cause sis was sick in bed....I called the manager of the building and he said mom came over and asked him if he wanted cash or money order...and was on her way to the back...he told her either one...NOW HERES the important part...I TOLD him if she doesnt pay then let me know...NO call...four days later owner is calling me and at the risk of repeating myself I told him off...call sis she sends my bro in law into town and gives him a check...MY mom keeps telling me she paid cash ...my sis says shes out of her mind and doesnt know what shes talking about...so I ask her (sis) did you get the check? She goes NO she hid it....my mom is still saying she gave him cash...I have a tendency to believe her cause she has never LIED to me....I think that low life took the cash and then took the check.....how easy would it be to rip off a person with dementia...and he knows this.....I dont know....my sis says we cant believe mom but I am not too sure...thoughts???? Thoughts? Sure! Y'all are addicted to the psychodrama, or your sis would use the POA, get direct deposit happening and set up autopayment for the rent, and none of this would be going on. It would take about 15 minutes. You must be getting something out of this deal or you'd stop. Mary G. Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she refuses...My sis has PAO but as long as she is not deemed incompetent we cant force her.....she says she wants her check in her hand...what possbile thing could we be getting out of this???? that hurt...and was uncalled for...whatever Mary_Gordon@tvo.org Thoughts? Sure! Y'all are addicted to the psychodrama, or your sis would use the POA, get direct deposit happening and set up autopayment for the rent, and none of this would be going on. It would take about 15 minutes. You must be getting something out of this deal or you'd stop. Mary G. > Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and > she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she > refuses...My sis has PAO but as long as she is not deemed incompetent we > cant force her. so get her declared incompetent and get it over with. sorry, but mary is partly right about all of you pushing those same old buttons. continuing to rescue your mother from the results of her incompetence is not going to speed the day when your sister can deal with the things that your mom is not able to handle. really, this is NOT your problem. if you won't go to court to get a declaration, you could at least just let things deteriorate until adult protective services steps in goes to court instead. OK I hear ya and I AGREE...are you a US citizen???? the only way that is gonna happen if we go thru the courts which is gonna cost money that we dont have and if we do that to mom then she is entitled to a lawyer which will be provided by the state...in the end if she is declared such then they will issue guardianship which I DONT want ...bla bla bla...If you didnt know what she is saying is nonsense she comes across as competent....I am sorry but easy to say hard to do...I am confused first you tell me not to do it then you say do it....I am the odd man out here cause this is not the normal circumstances Re: Now I dont know what to believe Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2005, 12:49am (CDT-3) From: NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris) On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:24:14 -0500 in alt.support.alzheimers, bdetrs@webtv.net (Boydette) wrote: Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she refuses...My sis has PAO but as long as she is not deemed incompetent we cant force her. so get her declared incompetent and get it over with. sorry, but mary is partly right about all of you pushing those same old buttons. continuing to rescue your mother from the results of her incompetence is not going to speed the day when your sister can deal with the things that your mom is not able to handle. really, this is NOT your problem. if you won't go to court to get a declaration, you could at least just let things deteriorate until adult protective services steps in goes to court instead. OK I hear ya and I AGREE...are you a US citizen???? the only way that is gonna happen if we go thru the courts which is gonna cost money that we dont have and if we do that to mom then she is entitled to a lawyer which will be provided by the state...in the end if she is declared such then they will issue guardianship which I DONT want ...bla bla bla...If you didnt know what she is saying is nonsense she comes across as competent....I am sorry but easy to say hard to do...I am confused first you tell me not to do it then you say do it....I am the odd man out here cause this is not the normal circumstances ***** Hi Boydette, They do it all the time! There are many older people living alone who have alzheimers (or a stroke or something) and they have lost the ability to care for themself and take care of business. Adult protective services gets involved and they do it. Is there an office for the aging in your area? That might help. I know it is REALLY easy if the person is in the hospital first, then if the hospital determines the person cannot go back home as they can't take care of themself, and from there they often go straight to a nursing home. If your mom isn't quite ready for that, wait a bit longer because sooner or later something will come up that will bring the situation to a head. Another thing.... if your sister is not doing her job, the more you do to help her, the less she will be inclined to take an active role. It may be hard, but backing off and allowing things to take their own course may be the only way to work with this situation. We went through something similar in the very beginning. My mother in law was showing signs of serious problems but she wanted to stay in her home (like we all do) and her friends were "protecting" her by failing to face the fact she was actually in danger. We lived on tenterhooks for almost a year before it came enough to a head that finally the friends called us and said "DO something!".... so we did. Before it came to that, she had lost 30 lbs, burnt the handles off quite a few pots, the house went to rack and ruin and she paid her taxes three times in a row, and some crook of a "boyfriend" stole half her valuables, and she was taking double the amount of medications she was supposed to because she would forget she had taken it. In short, it had to get worse before people would allow us to make it get better.  SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply personally, remove 'sox') Re: Now I dont know what to believe Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2005, 12:49am (CDT-3) From: NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris) Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she refuses...My sis has PAO but as long as she is not deemed incompetent we cant force her. so get her declared incompetent and get it over with. sorry, but mary is partly right about all of you pushing those same old buttons. continuing to rescue your mother from the results of her incompetence is not going to speed the day when your sister can deal with the things that your mom is not able to handle. really, this is NOT your problem. if you won't go to court to get a declaration, you could at least just let things deteriorate until adult protective services steps in goes to court instead. Evelyn...Right ON!!! That is what I am doing APS got involved at first when my dad got sick and the hospital reported she was living alone and may be in danger....they did NOTHING...and closed the case when my mom refused to talk to them or answer the door when she knew it was them. The B%&^(*&.. that was handling the case told me and my sister she wasnt taking any action....I guess cause if you dont know my mom she comes across competent as she is very articulate and well spoken...the problem is the stuff she is saying is all fantasy and delusions....the case worker told us she was ok to stay alone.....whatever....I guess she is gonna have to get hurt or have a stroke or something or catch the house on fire before they will do anything....oh also all her neighbors are aware of the situation and keep me updated when she does weird stuff...thats all I can do for now IE she keeps insisting my son is living next door,,,the lady said my mom keeps calling him my sons name so now he is saying Hi grandma...I told her NOT to do that since it just confuses her...I told mom it is not my son and she argued with me....so Sun when I was there she goes here he comes so I look out the door and saw the guy and told her that is not my son....she goes well dont you think I would know my own grandson...like I wouldnt know my own son...kinda funny but you see what we are dealing with mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com (Evelyn Ruut) ***** Hi Boydette, They do it all the time! There are many older people living alone who have alzheimers (or a stroke or something) and they have lost the ability to care for themself and take care of business. Adult protective services gets involved and they do it. Is there an office for the aging in your area? That might help. I know it is REALLY easy if the person is in the hospital first, then if the hospital determines the person cannot go back home as they can't take care of themself, and from there they often go straight to a nursing home. If your mom isn't quite ready for that, wait a bit longer because sooner or later something will come up that will bring the situation to a head. Another thing.... if your sister is not doing her job, the more you do to help her, the less she will be inclined to take an active role. It may be hard, but backing off and allowing things to take their own course may be the only way to work with this situation. We went through something similar in the very beginning. My mother in law was showing signs of serious problems but she wanted to stay in her home (like we all do) and her friends were "protecting" her by failing to face the fact she was actually in danger. We lived on tenterhooks for almost a year before it came enough to a head that finally the friends called us and said "DO something!".... so we did. Before it came to that, she had lost 30 lbs, burnt the handles off quite a few pots, the house went to rack and ruin and she paid her taxes three times in a row, and some crook of a "boyfriend" stole half her valuables, and she was taking double the amount of medications she was supposed to because she would forget she had taken it. In short, it had to get worse before people would allow us to make it get better. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn > oh also all her neighbors are > aware of the situation and keep me updated when she does weird > stuff...thats all I can do for now keep a journal. log everything. tape phone calls. take a video cam in your purse. seriously, documenting events really helps. Dennis what an excellent idea.....documenting stuff...wow finally something I CAN do...LOL > Dennis what an excellent idea.....documenting stuff...wow finally > something I CAN do...LOL check what your state laws say about recording phone calls. recording calls without the consent of both parties is illegal in some states, and legal in others. answering machines are different, since the person being recorded knows that they are being recorded. if she leaves real rants on your answering machine, save the tape or if it's a digital one, tape record it before erasing it. many video cameras are small enough to easily conceal in a purse or shoulder bag. my siblings wouldn't believe what bad shape mom was in because she sounded fine when she talked to them, but the answering machine messages from her (usually when she was confused) were real eye-openers for them. Boydette: I empathize, particularly with the ability to "make sense" to someone else, who doesn't know what the real problem is. I don't have any answers for you either, but I wanted you to know that I feel for you. Some of the comments others made are, of course, on point, but that doesn't lessen the pain and confusion. I think it is certainly possible that the landlord took the money. I care for a loved one who has definitely had things stolen from her. I don't know the answer to her problems either. Best wishes. SignatureAndrew D. Callahan, Owner Deadlines Typing Service Anytype Dot Com Typing and Transcription Service http://www.anytype.com OK I hear ya and I AGREE...are you a US citizen???? the only way that is gonna happen if we go thru the courts which is gonna cost money that we dont have and if we do that to mom then she is entitled to a lawyer which will be provided by the state...in the end if she is declared such then they will issue guardianship which I DONT want ...bla bla bla...If you didnt know what she is saying is nonsense she comes across as competent....I am sorry but easy to say hard to do...I am confused first you tell me not to do it then you say do it....I am the odd man out here cause this is not the normal circumstances Re: Now I dont know what to believe Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2005, 12:49am (CDT-3) From: NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris) Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she refuses...My sis has PAO but as long as she is not deemed incompetent we cant force her. so get her declared incompetent and get it over with. sorry, but mary is partly right about all of you pushing those same old buttons. continuing to rescue your mother from the results of her incompetence is not going to speed the day when your sister can deal with the things that your mom is not able to handle. really, this is NOT your problem. if you won't go to court to get a declaration, you could at least just let things deteriorate until adult protective services steps in goes to court instead. > Boydette: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Best wishes. What Andrew says above is absolutely true. There are a lot of opportunistic and evil people in the world and when your own mind is not capable of remembering what you paid and what you didn't, it is very easy for some people to take advantage. My mother in law was cheated very badly by home improvement scam artists, including by a guy who was a sort of a "boyfriend" and handyman of some kind. Naturally, as soon as we stepped in to care for her, that boyfriend never was heard from again. If I ever got a chance to give him a piece of my mind, I certainly would. He stole so many things from her. I gave her several gorgeous cut crystal bowls and vases that she would display on top of her room divider over the years for holidays and birthdays etc. All were gone by the time all was said and done, and nobody knew anything about what happened to them. Remember too, she paid her taxes 3 times, and fortunately the city kept better records on it than she did, because she was paid up in advance. What can you do about it? Nothing much, unless you have power of attorney and the person consents for you to take over the bill paying etc. for them. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply personally, remove 'sox') > OK I hear ya and I AGREE...are you a US citizen???? the only way that is > gonna happen if we go thru the courts which is gonna cost money that we > dont have and if we do that to mom then she is entitled to a lawyer > which will be provided by the state. adult protective services should pay for the attorney for the POA holder if they are asked. you guys should get them involved anyway so that THEY can deal with your mother's problems, not you. Boydette, yes it is true, the person who has POA can indeed get the social security check deposited in the bank directly without the person themselves OKing it. They have to go to the social security office with their copy of the POA and make the arrangements there. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply personally, remove 'sox') > Mary....we CANNOT direct deposit if my mom dont okay it...via phone and > she has to give her SS number bank account number etc and she [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You must be getting something out of this deal or you'd stop. > Mary G. > Boydette, yes it is true, the person who has POA can indeed get the social > security check deposited in the bank directly without the person themselves > OKing it. They have to go to the social security office with their copy of > the POA and make the arrangements there. as i said in another thread, not all POAs allow this. it depends on how it's worded. Boydette, I know what it is to live with crazy makers, including father who was a manic depressive (who abused us all mentally as well as physically), a mother who made suicide attempts and a brother with major addiction problems and all the fun stuff that goes with that (lying, stealing from loved ones, using them, you name it). It isn't that I don't understand or sympathise. I DO! I went my own journey with this stuff, and wow, when I disengaged and stopped banging my head on the wall, did it feel good (that is, when I realized that banging my head on the wall wasn't a normal part of life, and I got used to the loss of the reassuring rhythm and the pounding thwacks!). You are enmeshed in this whole situation, and you keep going back for more, which makes me feel that you MUST at some level get some kind of validation, or you'd step back, stop playing the game, stop wringing your hands, and do either A) whatever it takes to clean it up or B) ignore it and let her bottom out. You don't have to keep rescuing her - all that is part of the enabling stuff you continue to participate in. Its like this massive learned helplessness, where you and your sister are running in circles until you are exhausted, and it doesn't really occur to you to step off the groove you've worn yourself into - or maybe at this point, since you've been told so many times you are running in circles, you don't believe its possible to stop. How about even getting the post office to hold her mail for pick up, or deliver to your sister's home or to a box? Not hard to arrange. I mean, you do have options, and I just keep hearing you say you can't do anything at all other than endlessly go over there, take calls, make calls, and wind yourself up. Mary G. > Boydette, I know what it is to live with crazy makers, including father > who was a manic depressive (who abused us all mentally as well as [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Mary G. Dear Mary, In reading your post above, and relating well to it from my own life, I can say that it was the stress of living with irrational and unbalanced people in my childhood that made me seek rationale and balance in my own life. I sought to find wisdom as I grew, because I wasn't raised with much, therefore I valued it more greatly as a rare treasure. Being raised with crazymakers.... if it doesn't make you crazy too, it can make you stronger. In your case, your own wisdom is evident, and we are lucky you post here :-) SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply personally, remove 'sox') Dennis Mary and all I hear ya and most times I do that (disengage that is)...me and my sister got into an argument cause she says I am not doing my share....she is doing it all...the laundry the bills taking trash out shopping etc....I told her give me something specific to do and I will but I dont have any access to the money so give me some and I will take care of the shopping etc...OH NO she didnt want to do that so screw her Plus my husband works nights and weekends and we have one vehicle I am NOT gonna do anything else cause like yall have said...I am just waiting for her to go over the edge...how long that is gonna take is unknown....I havent seen her in almost 6 months and the other day I only stayed a few minutes and walked out when I saw she was drinking aint no way I am putting up with that crap thanks to all for the support and advice....I am doing better now....Love B Boydette-- You have two choices--- to do something OR complain..and do nothing.. It appears, not once have you gone to or called any authority for help. If you feel that's what Mom & Dad deserve well so be it- You believe a man doing his job would take rent money & deny it..not me...not from your previous postings,,, you will never know for sure....... Sorry -- OH shut up Florence I am sorry but this is NOT a black and white situation...and the choices are many....evidently you have NOT read my posts where I talked about calling authorities....THEY WONT DO ANYTHING!!!!!!! walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgment....What would you suggest I DO OR DONT DO since you are so damn smart???? FYI I am not COMPLAINING when I come here to vent...isnt that what the group is for???? YOU are mean and hateful Dont talk to me anymore Boydette-- You have two choices--- to do something OR complain..and do nothing.. It appears, not once have you gone to or called any authority for help. If you feel that's what Mom & Dad deserve well so be it- You believe a man doing his job would take rent money & deny it..not me...not from your previous postings,,, you will never know for sure....... Sorry -- Sheesh, Vent away.. I will SHUT UP One of the more common signs of dementia is accusing innocent people of stealing. Personally, I'd place my money on an honest landlord and your Mom spending the money, not remembering it and jumping to conclusions about what "must have happened". And the more she repeats it to herself, the more she believes it. And it's hard to disengage when your Mom and sis keep calling you. Suddenly you aren't playing out the family role you've always done. The only way they known to get you back in your "place" in the family is to escalate the drama until you get sucked in. I don't know how many times I had to hang up on my Dad to get free of him. I would ask for a copy of your Mom's POA though. It might be limited or broad. There are many options available. I'd also talk to APS. Like most government offices, they are way overloaded, but I haven't heard anything but good about them. One thought though -- if they think your sis isn't doing her job for your Mom, they may take over to make sure the rent money gets direct deposited and paid to rent. Karen > Ok bear with me a minute....back to the issue of my moms rent....series > of events....checks came early...Mom got it before sis did cause sis was [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > he knows this.....I dont know....my sis says we cant believe mom but I > am not too sure...thoughts???? |
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