Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / January 2005
Many older people under-nourished
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tj - 22 Dec 2004 11:42 GMT http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4115461.stm
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Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 22 Dec 2004 15:47 GMT I think its a multipronged problem - its not just money. Its about the difficulties involved in shopping and food preparation and cooking and wash-up for one - which can seem like an overwhelming amount of bother, particularly if you aren't feeling particularly hungry or interested in food (often the case if your sense of taste or smell is impaired). I was single into my 30's, and rarely could be bothered to make myself a proper dinner that would meet with a dietician's approval.
I've seen elderly relatives who were quite well off slip into the tea and toast syndrome - or tea and chocolate bars, like my husband's late Auntie Kay! We had meals on wheels for my MIL while we were still maintaining her in her own apartment. The housekeeper got her breakfast and made a lunch for her, and then meals on wheels delivered a hot supper. Even when she would claim she wasn't hungry, and wouldn't have made an effort on her own, she would eat well if you put a prepared meal in front of her.
I wonder if it will be any easier when we all get to that point in life, what with microwave ovens and the plethora of good premade frozen meals. You'd think frozen meals would make it easier to keep reasonably fed with limited effort (i.e. you go to the store, you buy seven "TV" dinners and shove them in the freezer, and there you go for the week, with no preparation work and no wasted food).
Mary G.
tj - 22 Dec 2004 19:36 GMT > I think its a multipronged problem - its not just money. Its about the > difficulties involved in shopping and food preparation and cooking and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > was single into my 30's, and rarely could be bothered to make myself a > proper dinner that would meet with a dietician's approval. I think being on your own is a definite negative factor when it comes to eating properly. When my wife was in hospital for three months being assessed i found it hard to motivate to cook for myself.All that effort preparing and cooking just for me?- nah don't think so.
Also when i was struggling to cope with my wife, pre to getting through to the appropriate people that she was having major problems the stress of trying to ger her to eat and rink properly played havoc with my own eating habits.
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Songbird - 23 Dec 2004 03:47 GMT > I wonder if it will be any easier when we all get to that point in > life, what with microwave ovens and the plethora of good premade frozen > meals. You'd think frozen meals would make it easier to keep reasonably > fed with limited effort (i.e. you go to the store, you buy seven "TV" > dinners and shove them in the freezer, and there you go for the week, > with no preparation work and no wasted food). Actually that's what dietitian suggested my parents do. They are diabetic and have other health-related diet restrictions as well. This way they know exactly what size portion and what they are consuming. I think the goal is to get Dad fixing some simple meals eventually, but this is a way for them to learn what affects them, portion sizes, etc.
Songbird
Jo Ann Malina - 24 Dec 2004 08:33 GMT Mary_Gordon@tvo.org is alleged to have said:
> I wonder if it will be any easier when we all get to that point in > life, what with microwave ovens and the plethora of good premade frozen > meals. You'd think frozen meals would make it easier to keep reasonably > fed with limited effort (i.e. you go to the store, you buy seven "TV" > dinners and shove them in the freezer, and there you go for the week, > with no preparation work and no wasted food). Unless you have dementia, and then even if someone brings you a refrigerator full of food, you can't remember how to prepare it, or imagine how a frozen box turns into a warm tray of food.
I wonder how many of those people in the BBC article had some level of dementia. Especially the over-85's.
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Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 24 Dec 2004 12:41 GMT I have many relatives who ate poorly as seniors, even with no signs of dementia, although I'm sure there are many people for whom that is a factor. My late great Aunt Margaret died a year ago - fiercely independent, completely intact mentally right to the end - a real holy terror who never married - she lived alone (in her parents home), had osteoporosis and terrible back pain, tired easily and found shopping very difficult, wouldn't ask for help, couldn't be bothered to cook and had a limited appetite. She lived out of tins for a long time....by the time my cousin Doug finally insisted on some changes, she was like a skeleton. What she was eating was not just nutritionally poor, but insufficient quantity...no wonder she was tired all the time. No fuel in the tank! When you look at what happened, it was a pernicious spiral. Gradually, she fell into habits that meant she wasn't eating well or enough, she started to get tired and unwell, she got weaker, she got more isolated because she was weak, she got depressed, she ate even less. She never owned a microwave oven in her life, but frozen dinners would have been 1000% improvement over the tins of soup or spagetti she lived on.
Mary G.
Sarah Kanary - 02 Jan 2005 01:01 GMT I don't know if this can happen with Alzheimer's patients, but is it possible that as the plaques and tangles kill the brain, they can start to affect the part that tells a person when to be hungry?
My mother is quite advanced in the disease, my father's progression is much slower. He regularly sits her down to a good meal, but she just picks at her food. She has nutritious meals set before her regularly, but just doesn't seem interested in eating well.
Sarah Kanary
> I have many relatives who ate poorly as seniors, even with no signs of > dementia, although I'm sure there are many people for whom that is a [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mary G. Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 02 Jan 2005 01:18 GMT Whats known is that quite early they do lose a significant amount of their sense of smell, and thus their ability to taste food. Its so common, researchers are actually working on diagnostic tests for AD that involve testing the person's sense of smell. Here is an article on the proposed test http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=17776
Dramatic weight loss is usually associated with damage to the sense of smell or taste, no matter what the cause of the loss of ability to smell (also called anosmia) Here is a good article on anosmia and what it means for appetite http://hubel.sfasu.edu/courseinfo/SL99/anosmia.htmll
And yes, I do strongly believe that ultimately they lose their understanding of the sensation of hunger. They may still feel it, but it doesn't appear to trigger a connection with the action of eating. I expect its similar to what goes on with elimination or urination later in the illness. They probably feel the physical sensations but have no clue what they mean or what to do about them.
Mary G.
Beth - 02 Jan 2005 03:22 GMT Sarah, What you see depends on where the damage is affecting the brain. While loss of appetite/interest in eating is classic-for my MIL she is literally unable to recognize what to do with her food (or most any other object for that matter). She doesn't know what a glass handed to her is for and verbal directions are often not understood at all. We and the staff at her ALF have learned ways to handle her behaviors-but sometimes we have to pen her in (to keep her from "going home to her mother") with chairs (aides are sitting in them feeding others) and sometimes actually feed her. Some days are better than others-usually once she is started she will go into "automatic" mode and finish on her own. She pretty much won't eat except at the dining room table, because she doesn't trust her interpretations. So we've long ago stopped taking in cookies and candy.
Early on she lost recognition of familiar people and she cannot understand photographs now. Yesterday, she refused a piece of her birthday cake (87!) but was intrigued by the purple icing. The activity director fed her 1 mouthful and Marion finished it up herself with no problem. But she is unable to recognize food as something to eat. She'd just as soon carry it around in her purse,if they let her. For most things- we try to get her "into automatic". That's most successful for things like brushing teeth, pulling up underwear after toileting, etc. She pretty much is unable to think of these things herself, but often will function without thinking.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that this whole area is multi-faceted.
Beth
Lee - 02 Jan 2005 04:36 GMT wish I could find a switch to "get her into automatic" ... my MIL, I mean .... she CAN still do things... just as long as she doesn't think too much about it.... once she's thought about it, we haven't been very successful in finding a way to switch her back... she gets so frustrated and stressed out. *sigh*
Re: the eating issues.... I know with my MIL, and from what I've read, often there's a real preference for sweets .... when all else fails here, I jumpstart her eating again with ice cream, or waffles with syrup .... both things she'd NEVER refuse .... have, on occassion, poured a bit of maple syrup on other foods too .... not something I'd want to eat, but she's happy. The other thing is that we try to be very careful re: keeping her stuff either bland or sweet.... if she gets something that she perceives as too spicy, she's less likely to eat whatever we offer next
> Sarah, What you see depends on where the damage is affecting the brain. > While loss of appetite/interest in eating is classic-for my MIL she is [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Beth
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