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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / November 2004Urgent need advice please
Good morning everyone I have an urgent problem My father is suffering from some severe form of dementia, he has not been diagnosed although I mentioned his behavior to his doctor (treats him for diabetes and hypertension) the doctor talks to him for 3 minutes asks if everything ok, of course my father says yes, gets his scripts and leaves till the next appointment (same scenario for years). When I asked to his doc to have him fully evaluated he replied "take him to the hospital' there is nothing I can do about it'!!!!!. My father is in denial and refuses to go to the hospital for any reason , he is physically very strong and forcing him to the hospital is impossible. Finally few days ago the inevitable happened my father fell in the street and was taken to the hospital I told the hospital doctor that I "believe my father suffers from dementia" she replied that I should take it up with his assigned hospital social worker,I complied and explained to the social worker the symptoms, she replied that the psy will give him an MME however I want him to get a full neurological test,a full work up. I was also told by the temporary (overnight) social worker that he will not released from the hospital without a 'plan' which was denied by the permanent social worker !!!!!!!. I feel that I am given the runaround. My concern is that he might pass the short test and be released which means that he will have another accident within days. Is there a way that I can demand a full work up, and can the hospital release him when they feel like it ? Curiously everyone at the hospital asks me if I want to put him into a home, I think that is kind of drastic measure without a full work up I honestly cannot put him in a old age home just at the whim of a social worker. I have his health proxy, Durable POA, can anyone tell me what my rights are and if those documents give me the power of having my father fully evaluated and not released from the hospital till this is done. additional info: This situation is fairly new to us, we live in Europe and were called few months ago to come to NYC ASAP because my MIL was dying we than realized how bad my fathers condition is,he can keep a fairly coherent conversation for about 4 minutes so we did not think that anything was wrong, I now that he never liked to speak on the phone so I was not alarmed by his behavior on the phone. From all the books and info on AD he seems, in most symptoms, be at the stage before final according to most charts available on the Net Any help or suggestions welcome TIA Odile > Good morning everyone > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > Odile Dear Odile, There is a certain kind of a specialist that you need to get to see. Ask for a Gerontologist. They specifically treat illnesses of elderly people. I truly hope you are able to get your relative tested properly and to get a good diagnosis. If he refuses to go, try to use some excuse that he will accept. We only realized my mother in law was slipping into dementia when her sister died and it became evident that she couldn't manage alone anymore. She didn't want to get tested or even to go out of her house either. As time went on we enlisted help and got her checked. The reason it is extremely important is that there ARE illnesses that are treatable and curable that seem just like alzheimers. Good Luck. I always say that the early stages are often the worst, since the person is not impaired enough to know how ill they really are, and the family is often forced to wait till a near disaster happens to get the help they need.  SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") Odile, I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time... Please contact an attorney for legal advice. If you don't know one, then ask the NY Bar for a referral to one who specializes in these things. If you are still in NYC, you will have no problem in locating one. Good luck... donnah > Good morning everyone > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Odile Thank you so much Donna . Well the problem has been resolved as far as the MME goes, My father could not pass it and he was diagnosed with dementia and it was strongly "suggested" to us (my husband & I )that we should put him in a home stressed in particular by the social worker (a real cruel piece of work) :( she told us that we had 2 days to find him a home and casually said "I found a home in a day for my father"!!!. I replied that it did not feel to be an adequate amount of time to decide the fate of a LO to which she violently replied well that's the rules and we need the beds !!!! and we will have to release him (that means that in his condition my father impenetrably should be back in the hospital before the end of the month) however we were assured that was pure BS ! We finally had to get our main attorney involved and we got few more days to look, now adding to the problem the Elmhurst Queens hospital will not give us the PRI until we find a home for Dad .As per Elder law attorney suggestion we tried to deal through the attorney recommended placement agency but again were rebuffed and told that "we do not deal with 3rd parties" . We have been trying to find homes in our area (NYC) app 50 establishments, but it seem that there is no one on week-end that will process a placement and that we will have to wait till Monday to talk to some one on that matter. So, so much for the social workers ultimatum Monday been his last day that he may stay in hospital (dixit social worker) I really do not understand that an institution can demand that you decide the fate of person in a matter of days, effectively forcing us to find any home, be it temporary, in the hope of finding an acceptable one. We love this country but the treatment forced on the sickly and their families borders on the inhuman, at least in NYC,this I can assure you that it would not happen as brutally in the UK or France. Thank you all for your responses to my 1st post Odile Odile, The hospital has little to say about hospital stays. It is dictated by medicare time limit's. give or tale a few days. If your father no konger needs skilled nursing care, it's home or a nursing home. or assisted living..only you know the level of care required The cost of nursing homes help many make the decision. Every state has its rules. Your best bet is a NY Elder lawyer recommended by Alzheimer Org. before you say the wrong thing. ' If you can private pay a NH you will have no difficulty. Does you father have long term insurance? So many things to think about..!!! Florence > Thank you so much Donna . > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Odile Odile, we had the PRI screen done more than once while we searched for options. Originally we had it done when Ida first came here, and that was purportedly for a visit. We then kept her here living with us for the next three and a half years. We had another PRI screen done then just before admitting her to the current nursing home she is in. Remember the PRI screen is good for only 30 days, and if you don't have a placement for the person, you need to pay for another one. If you take your father home with you while you search, you are within your legal rights to do that. The worst thing that would happen is that you have to go through the PRI screen again. For some odd reason it is true that they try to force people to commit their loved ones to a nursing home in the city. My mother in law was in the Bronx living with her sister and brother in law several years ago when the brother in law suddenly developed dementia. They had an awful time getting him home from the hospital rather than having him put into a nursing home right from there. They eventually did keep him at home till he died. This was several years ago, and my mother in law was still in a good state of mind until that time. One of the reasons we made SURE to get my mother in law completely moved upstate with us was because we didn't want her to go into a nursing home in the city, after seeing how her sister died in one, in the Bronx. The help was nasty, spoke English badly, they didn't care about the people they were caring for at all, and when she died we were treated horribly by the people at the home. They lied about what they said and did and I luckily had a tape of the verbal abuse we suffered at that time from the help at the home. The manager didn't particularly care about it. I never filed a complaint because we got Ida out of the Bronx and up here living with us as soon as we could manage it. Your reservations about putting your father into a home in NYC are probably valid. You need to find a way to either take him home with you for a couple of days, or let him stay in the hospital for a couple more days while you search for a suitable place. But please don't worry about the PRI screening, because you can get it done more than once.... you just have to remember it is only good for 30 days and you have to pay for it again if you let it run out. Good Luck to you! SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > We love this country but the treatment forced on the sickly and their > families > borders on the inhuman, at least in NYC,this I can assure you that it > would not happen as brutally in the UK or France. as long as the people of this country continue to be hoodwinked by the bush and his repugnican corporate friends, everyone but the rich will get screwed, especially the elderly and the sick. we are the most uncivilized country on the planet, the way we treat health care as a privilege instead of a right. keep on the hospital with your lawyer --- the social worker is only doing what she/he is told to do by the ripoffs that run hospitals and the insurance companies that pay for them. Odile, It's been years since I lived in Queens, so I won't be much help. But sometimes the rule of having the family member geographically near the NH doesn't present with the best NH choice. My in laws live in Rochester, NY. When my FIL needed emergency placement, he was placed into a highly recommeded NH that seemed like a great facility. It was right in Rochester. My MIL could easily visit. Now, my FIL was on antipsychotic drugs, because hallucinations made him fearful and therefore violent if confronted. The wonderful facility must have had a problem balancing the meds, or giving them to him on schedule. He was asked to leave because of violent episodes (2). There were never any problems at the hospital, or the second NH. The second NH was about 30 miles outside of Rochester and was a 45 minute drive for my MIL. A much longer schlep. She felt up to the drive 2-3 times per week. But my FIL recieved much better care and was content, even docile (as long as the meds stayed balanced). [He passed away from complications from hip surgery 2 1/2 yrs ago.] Adelle D. Stavis, Esq. > Thank you so much Donna . > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Odile > I have his health proxy, Durable POA, can anyone tell me what my rights are > and if those documents give > me the power of having my father fully evaluated and not released from the > hospital till this is done. Yes, but it's obvious at *that* hospital that you'll have to be very insistent. Call your local Alzheimer's Association office and ask for help. www.alz.org to locate them. Hi all Yes we are insistent, my attorneys finally got in touch with the administrator of Elmhurst hospital and suddenly my father Pri was faxed to a facility in QUEENS as opposed to the one the social worker was trying to force us to put him in. We are still not really satisfied since this gives us no time to survey other facilities however if we are not happy with the home we now will have a few weeks to look around without being harassed. We and the hospital also have a hard time to find a home for the reason that he scores a low PA, forgive me if this is not spelled correctly, we were told that it is to score the ability of oneself to dress somehow, eat, shower etc...added to that some fair amount of energy and extreme aggressiveness when agitated, besides roaming, sundowning etc. not to mention totally incoherent (he forgets if he has eaten 5 minutes after diner and wants to know when is diner ! ). My father was finally diagnosed with dementia although he had been admitted for leg weakness due to diabetes which was *taken care of*and therefore the hospital felt he should be discharged at once, this makes no practical sense '"I' am repeating myself ;)" to find a home in NYC in 2 or 4 days, is physically impossible especially when you have to work to stay afloat financially. Thank you all for your answers and reading my rants Odile Hi Odile - I really just lurk here, but I attempted to privately email you in response to your need for advice and noticed that you weren't accepting unknown senders. That's ok, I'll just post here! As a dementia care professional who used to work in the NYC area, I thought I could at least help to point you in the right direction ... Here is the email as I sent it to you: >>Odile - I occasionally read alt.support.alzheimers and noticed through your post that you were looking for senior housing in the NYC area. I agree that it is hard to find appropriate housing. As a professional, I have left facilities that I didn't think were providing adequate care. I do know of a couple of good places, though, so I thought I'd suggest them to you: 1. Hebrew Home for the Aged - they have locations in the Bronx, Manhattan, and Westchester and they are quite known for their dementia care. http://www.hebrewhome.org/home.htm 2. Sunrise Assisted Living - I worked at the location in Mill Basin, Brooklyn. There are also locations in Sheepshead Bay, and then in Long Island and Westchester. Sunrise is really a great company. The staff there is highly trained in Alzheimer's care. They have a special Alzheimer's wing and it's a really great "homelike" environment, which I'm a strong proponent of. http://www.sunriseseniorliving.com 3. Hearthstone Alzheimer's Care - this is located in The Esplanade Senior Living building at, I think, 74th and West Side Highway. They also have nearby locations in the Palisades and in White Plains. Again, they are very skilled at providing the care that someone with Dementia requires. http://www.thehearth.org Good luck! And, if I can be of any more help, please let me know. MaryD Certified Dementia Practitioner<< Mary D. Thank you for posting here. I might add that people might do anything that they could to avoid the Pelham nursing home in the bronx. It is absolutely a hell hole, and it is where my mother in laws poor sister died. An awful place. The only reason I didn't make a legal suit against them was that she was gone and there was no way to bring her back. My mother in law is in a great nursing home upstate where we live, and she is treated very well. SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > Hi Odile - > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > MaryD > Certified Dementia Practitioner<< |
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