Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / October 2004
Newbie -Question
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LynnSmyth - 19 Sep 2004 01:48 GMT Hello,
I'm new to this group and would like to thank those of you who contribute intelligent, thoughtful posts. It has been very helpful.
My mother was diagnosed with AD over 1 year ago. I was not impressed with how the doctor came to his conclusion that her memory problems were the beginning stages of AD. She is also diabetic with high blood pressure and she has had a mini-stroke. On her MRI there was atrophy
1 year later no other changes. But her doctor made his final diagnosis based on a memory test that was given to her by an occupational therapist.
Would any of you be willing to share how your loved one was diagnosed? Do you have any suggestions in regard to further testing?
Thank you.
Nightwing - 19 Sep 2004 04:25 GMT The only certain diagnosis is during an autopsy. Usually the tests will rule out anything that is treatable, then when they are ruled out, AD is what is left.
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you. LynnSmyth - 19 Sep 2004 16:37 GMT Thank you so much for your feedback. It's certainly not encouraging. I thought things had gotten farther along in the area of diagnosis. Thanks again.
> The only certain diagnosis is during an autopsy. Usually the tests will > rule out anything that is treatable, then when they are ruled out, AD is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Thank you. Camille - 19 Sep 2004 13:31 GMT My mother was given a bunch of tests to rule out any organic cause. I can't remember all the test because it's been quite a few years but a few of them were blood, urine, EEG, scan to rule out strokes, etc. They were concerned with vitamin levels with the bloodwork. She was also given memory tests by the neurologist. After all that, she was diagnosed with mild to moderate Alzheimer's.
Camille
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you. Evelyn Ruut - 19 Sep 2004 16:16 GMT > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you. Hi,
In the instance of my mother in law's diagnosis, for some time we knew something wasn't quite right, and we noticed she had been neglecting her business matters (as well as her personal hygiene) so she didn't even have an assigned PCP anymore, through her insurance.
We had to get her established with a new PCP and asked for a complete gerontological workup, (which we personally took her to all appointments). She also had neglected her hearing aid which needed service, as well as her teeth, which she had formerly been VERY meticulous about. All these appointments and arrangements took a lot of time since we lived two hours away and it was quite a hassle, but it had to be done.
After we got the hearing aid functioning and the more urgent teeth issues taken care of, and establishing her with the new PCP, they gave her a blood test to establish thyroid levels, a CAT scan to determine the size and volume of certain brain areas, and a test by a psychiatrist which was a question and answer thing, consisting of simple questions and requests to perform certain sequential actions. They also did a test to establish that she had proper blood flow to the brain. I think it was an ultrasound test, but I don't really remember exactly what.
There are many who have also reported their loved ones were tested by being asked to draw clock faces and to count backwards from 100 by certain numbers. My mother in law's deficits were revealed very clearly in that she absolutely could not perform a simple sequence..... such as: "take this sheet of paper, fold it in half, then in quarters, then place it here on my desk" She instead took the paper, folded it in half and then stood there holding it, not knowing what to do with it next.
Upon testing her deficits became very clear, even to us. The PCP called us in and told us that she really should not be living alone anymore. It wasn't easy to pursuade her to leave her home. She had always been a fiercely independent and strong person, and my husband was her only child. She was determined not to become a burden and to remain alone as long as possible. Finally it became absolutely necessary to remove her from her home under the ruse that it was a visit for a short time. That short time evolved into several years and I think she was very happy here living with us. She gained back the weight she had lost and was happy, clean, healthy and no worries for a long time. We were very lucky to have a good doctor locally (only 1/2 mile down the road) who treated her throughout that whole time, adjusting her medications according to her needs carefully as we went along.
Ultimately she had to be placed in a nursing home last May, because she grew more and more unsteady on her feet and kept falling. She truly needed full time nursing care at that point. She is in a lovely place very close to our home and we see her often. She has adjusted to the routine and the people very well.
There is no typical story, but this could be one scenario of a typical story.....
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Moray - 06 Oct 2004 07:11 GMT >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > There is no typical story, but this could be one scenario of a typical > story..... Mary Gordon - 19 Sep 2004 16:17 GMT The usual drill is to start with a full physical including a review of medical history AND all medications the person is on. What they are looking for are any conditions that can cause confusion, memory loss, fuzzy thinking etc. OTHER than Alzheimer's and other incurable progressive dementias. After all, in an older person who may have a constellation of medical issues, problems can brew and fly under the detection radar due to the distraction of other medical concerns i.e. the doctor is so focussed on the diabetes and the heart problem that the brewing thyroid issue goes undetected. It can also happen that a person is seeing a number of specialists and no one really knows ALL the medications someone is taking - and interactions can be causing problems. A good physical should also involve blood tests for thiubngs like pernicious anemia and thyroid function.
Once the obvious non-AD things are ruled out, the next step is usually a referral to a neurologist or psychiatrist with a speciality in dementias. Once there, its common to have a number of other tests, such as various kinds of head scans. At the same time, my MIL also had a comprehensive assessment of her deficits - they wanted to know exactly how impaired she was, but also in what areas, since different causes of dementia can cause completely different sets of deficits - and the resulting deficits result in characteristic behaviour patterns.
Essentially, AD is only diagnosed by ruling out everything else it can be, because although they are getting closer with various kinds of scans, the only way to be 100% sure would be a brain biopsy, rarely done for obvious reasons!
Just to give you an idea of what they are looking for and trying to rule out, here is a list of things that can cause dementia, or dementia like issues (and its not a complete list, just some of the biggies!)
Degenerative
Alzheimer's Disease Parkinson's Disease Dementia with Lewy Bodies Progressive Supranuclear Palsy Multiple System Atrophy Huntington's Disease Pick's Disease Frontotemporal (chromosome 17) Dementia Corticobasal Ganglionic Degeneration The Parkinsonian Dementia Complex of Guam Dementia Lacking Distinctive Histological Features
Vascular
Multiple Infarction Dementia Strategic Infarction Dementia Lacunar State Binswanger's Disease (Subcortical Ischemic Encephalopathy) Vasculitis Subarachnoid Hemorrhage
Infection
Fungal Meningitis Syphilis AIDS Dementia Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease (and other Prion diseases) Post Herpes Simplex Encephalitis
Psychiatric
Depression Alcohol abuse Drug use or abuse (or interactions/side effects) Personality Disorder Anxiety Disorder
Toxic/Metabolic
B12 deficiency Thyroid deficiency System failure including liver, renal, cardiac, respiratory Heavy metal toxicity Toxin exposure e.g. glue sniffing
Trauma
Subdural hematoma Closed head injury Open head injury Pugilistic brain injury Anoxic brain injury
Tumor
Glioblastoma Lymphoma Metastatic tumor
Other
Symptomatic Hydrocephalus (Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus)
Hope this helps
Mary G.
Lee - 20 Sep 2004 07:33 GMT it's a very good thing that she's had the MRI, if not much else... a friend of mine's husband just had a brain tumor removed and is now undergoing radiation ... after 2+ years of being treated for AD
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thank you. LynnSmyth - 21 Sep 2004 04:43 GMT Thank you all so much for sharing what you and your loved ones have been through. I just learned today that Medicare has approved reimbusement for PET Scan for diagnosis of Early AD. Because this exam shows function, I'm wondering if it might be of any benefit.
Thank you all for your insights. Very, very informative.
Lynn
> it's a very good thing that she's had the MRI, if not much else... a friend > of mine's husband just had a brain tumor removed and is now undergoing [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Thank you. Jo Ann Malina - 22 Sep 2004 17:22 GMT I have been doing a little online reading about PET scans and AD. Evidently it is most useful in very early AD, and can even detect it in people without symptoms. It measures the amount of glucose being used by the cerebral cortex. When problems first occur in the brain, it compensates by working harder, using more fuel in the process. By the time the disease is obvious, the brain changes are more extensive than can be compensated for, and glucose usage drops back. So it sounds like the test wouldn't be much use in someone who is obviously demented. I'm going to ask Mom's doctor about that aspect.
Typing "alzheimer's" and "pet scan" into Google gets a lot of articles. Here's one:
http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Alzheimer's/3-12-26Downs.htm
 Signature Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address
LynnSmyth <xena99@hotmail.com> is alleged to have said:
> Thank you all so much for sharing what you and your loved ones have > been through. I just learned today that Medicare has approved [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> > >> > Thank you. has tiger firmly by the tail - 23 Sep 2004 06:08 GMT am not really sure how the dianosis came about,as at the time I was not privy to what was going on with my father's health, this was 4 years ago, at 1st we thought it was a stroke because he had a black out. Dad had been an air traffic controller for 30 years (maybe a record) then had become an instructor here in OKC at Will Rogers and retired from FAA, he then took a job at Ardmore airpark,100 miles south of here, (maybe 10 operations an hour) heck he was 70 years old and doing what he loved, anyway his relief logged in 15 minutes early and found several airplanes in a holding pattern circleing the airport, Dad had no idea what was going on.He seemed to recover partially for a couple years, but was degradeing slowly. now there is no doubt in my mind that it is Alzheimer's, and the doctors have agreed and treat him accordingly(aricept&namenda) the progress of the desease seemed to speed up after emotional stress, Mom died 2&1/2 years ago. so in answer to your question there is no sure test (before death) to qualify if your loved one has AD, but if you are sitting up late at night hopeing against logic that it is just not true then you are in the same club as me.... sorry
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