Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / August 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

I am so sorry. I'm new. I was a legitimate post...

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Buffys97 - 06 Aug 2004 08:52 GMT
My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
the book recommendations and the advice. I am amazed that Alzheimer's
pts can manipulate.

I was very, very upset when I posted last night.  I did not know that
Mommykins was a Troll-like name. I will not use the name again. Please
give me another chance. I may be the dark daughter.....but in my own
way I am fighting to preserve her dignity in that I want her to be
treated for the correct ailment. I am not completely convinced that
she has Alzheimer's. The doctor seems convinced that she does have it
and so does my sister, the medical professional.

I accept the criticism of my attitude. I see that while she does look
like the same person, her mind is dismantling itself. I will try to
incorporate this into my thinking. I wish we could have reconciled our
mother/daughter differences while she was her old self all of the
time. I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I am doing my best to rise to this occasion and because of the storms
of the past, I am not doing well. I do not wish to push this all off
on my sister. There are just two of us. Like I said, we helped our dad
to die at home. We want no less for her. My husband had to put his mom
in a nursing home. He encourages us to help her stay at home as long
as we can. Forever, maybe.

I am bewildered more than I can say. I still think she is depressed or
angry.....how do I ask for a test to determine what is what with her?

Last year, My mom was a clear-headed and  functioning person. We were
so proud of her. Let me back up. In 2000, she moved into the house
next door to me because her own neighborhood went to pot. After living
on the same street and neighborhood for nearly 75 of her then 82 years
she moved. In the year 2001, she traded in my dad's old Escort for a
new Toyota Ecco.  Changing houses, learning to drive a new car --
those are giant leaps for an octogenarian!  She did her own taxes and
came up a few cents off from my husband's Turbo program. SHE was
right.

Last year, around May, she was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. 8
cm! The doctor gave her 1 year to live. My sister was with her for
this visit. As I said, she is an RN and usually does the medical (I am
usually the chauffer.) stuff. After that diagnosis, we asked her to
please not drive any more. She was stoic!!! She was great!!! She
turned over her keys. My husband (with whom she gets along famously)
took her for one last driver's license so that she would have a form
of ID -- with the stipulation that she not drive. This was a woman
with one year left to live, remember....

Then, she sold her car. She stood at the window of her house and cried
as my husband drove it to off its new owner. Gradually, she began
slipping. She told me she was forgetting things. I told her I forget
things all the time....like, where did I park my car, where did I
leave my glasses.....I think she became depressed.....I lived next
door and began taking her to the store. Now, my husband and I had it
in mind to move as long ago as two years ago. Our neighborhood was
really going south.

We couldn't leave her in the City alone. She needed transportation to
the store. What if she needed someone at night?  My sister bought a
house for her next door to my sister and also next door to her
grandson.

I did not think my Mom had Alzheimer's until she thought, that morning
at 2:30, that it was sometime in the 1940s or 50s and she was at the
home she shared with her parents and siblings -- and waiting for my
father to come and pick her up. My sister, the RN, thought that all
along she was afflicted with Alzheimer's but I thought it was the
depression of first, having  the diagnosis that she had 1 year to
live; second, giving up her car (and her independence); third, selling
her house and becoming my sister's tenant (my sister wanted her
initially to buy the house, when she refused, my sister bought
it.....) and fourth - moving from the City to the country. Heck -- I
couldn't wait to get out of the City and I am depressed living in the
country where there is not that much to do...the antidepressant she
was given by the doctor -- Zoloft -- did not seem to help.

The doctor (and my sister) are convinced, I guess, that it is
Alzheimer's. Maybe they, as medical professionals, know something I do
not know....my mother missed only one question on the Alzheimer's
memory test that I gave her in July. When I talk to her on the phone,
she is out of breath and seems disoriented. Here, she works puzzles in
the newspaper. She coughs -- but is not chronically out of breath.
Last year, she shuffled when my sister visited her. When my sister was
gone, the shuffling disappeared.

Yesterday in the morning she pouted because I would not take her home.
I told her we could get through this together. We had to do it so my
sister could have a nice vacation. Later in the day, she offered
tohelp me do little chores around the house. She worked those puzzles.
She watched the news. All good signs. Signs of what, tho? Alzheimer's?
Depression? Acceptance of her circumstances? And what are those
circumstances? Can you see I am confused?  She was so different doing
all of those things than she was when I was talking to her on the
phone.

While I do not get along with my mother, I do my best to care for her
while she is here. She does have a mean streak, though. She has always
belittled me in front of people. I am not over a lifetime of that kind
of treatment. I am just a person, too. Sometimes I think of the
meanness and I still cry. I was closer to my dad. I think she was
jealous of this.  Yes, I am resentful some of the time, but I am a
decent person and perhaps a miscast caregiver, but I am better than a
nursing home while my sister is on vacation. I think my sister perhaps
was mistaken in thinking my mom could be alone in her house.   Maybe
she can with my sister popping in and out...my sister deals with the
elderly in her job and is better equipped than I to evaluate
this....but my sister is in another state now and I am 30 miles away
from where my mom would be if she were home. My sister did not ask me
to take her up here. I did it because I saw the need.

I didn't think Alzheimer's could be diagnosed until one was deceased.
Then I read another post on your support group whereby someone had a
scan?

Well I am sorry this is so long.

Thank you for your answers yesterday and again, I am sorry I offended
people.

I am not in denial. It will be Ok with me if she has the disease. Why
didn't the doctor offer to do some tests? Do they just see the gray
hair and wrinkled brow and  go on automatic?

Doctors don't have all the answers.  I want someone to look at my mom,
really look at her, have a conversation with her and say, "This is the
deal..."

I feel that the world has written her off because she is old. Even tho
we don't get along and she smokes up my house, she deserves better.

The dark daughter
Dennis White - 06 Aug 2004 09:15 GMT
> My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
> forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
> the book recommendations and the advice. I am amazed that Alzheimer's
> pts can manipulate.

snip...

    I am a lurker here, but I think I'll throw my two cents in.  Given your
mother's medical history and your mentioning the fact she's a smoker, you
might google "vascular dementia".  Next to Alzheimer's, it is the second
most prevalent form of dementia in the elderly.  Much of it presents itself
very much like AD, but often there are bouts of clarity one day, and
diminished capacity the next.  If this is what your mother is suffering from
it will only come as cold comfort, but it may explain some of the behavior
you are seeing.
    I am caring for an 87 year old man who suffers from vascular dementia.
I think I'd rather he suffered from AD, since his state allows him to be
more fully aware of his condition and it's implications.  Some days his
depression is palpable.  Other days he valiantly fights on.  Good luck.

Dennis
Rose - 07 Aug 2004 08:34 GMT
>Subject: Re:  I am so sorry. I'm new. I was a legitimate post...
>From: "Dennis White" dennybop@comcast.net
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Dennis

You know, Dennis, my mom's doctors suspect she has vascular dementia.  One
thinks she doesn't have Alzheimers at all because "her personality is intact"
(but couldn't that be the meds?) and one thinks she has both.  But that's
incomprehensible to me because she has never ever been diagnosed with high
blood pressure, she has no history of stroke and no strokes showed up in her
CAT scan. She's on blood pressure meds but her heart doctor told me that's for
her heart (she might have had a teenie heart attack last year, they're not
sure), not high blood pressure.

Like your parent, my mother's dementia varies greatly, sometimes she's way off
and sometimes you wouldn't guess she had a problem if you were sitting and
talking with her.  And she knows she is impaired, always saying "I'm losing
it", "my memory gets worse and worse", "I'm scared, what's happening to me,"
"one day I won't know who you are", etc.

But she's responding to anti-Alz. drugs apparently so I don't know what to
think. I'm just assuming she has it but there's always a possibility she
doesn't.

___
"Don't worry Alba. I'd never let anyone else kill you." -- Naked Tango
Darryl - 07 Aug 2004 13:41 GMT
>Like your parent, my mother's dementia varies greatly, sometimes she's way off
>and sometimes you wouldn't guess she had a problem if you were sitting and
>talking with her.  And she knows she is impaired, always saying "I'm losing
>it", "my memory gets worse and worse", "I'm scared, what's happening to me,"
>"one day I won't know who you are", etc.

Dementia with Lewy Bodies might be another consideration; however, it
is more likely to be ruled out with a proper workup from a geriatric
specialist or good neurologist.  In fact, my Dad's case sounded pretty
much like your Mom's.  One minute he was lucid and the next he was
putting the shaving cream in the fridge.  He was treated wth AD
medications although to-date the jury is out as to whether they're
useful in the treatment of this disease.  To us, they *seemed* to
work.  

Darryl.
Rose - 08 Aug 2004 19:30 GMT
>Subject: Re: I am so sorry. I'm new. I was a legitimate post...
>From: Darryl umpolung@REMOVEhotmail.com
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>is more likely to be ruled out with a proper workup from a geriatric
>specialist or good neurologist.

First, thanks for the info!!

She was worked up by a neuropsychiatrist, geriatric psychologist, alzheimer's
specialist and got a CAT scan.  Doesn't mean they couldn't have missed
something tho.

I read the website you linked.  It says a major symptom is hallucinations and
my mom has never had those, so it's probably not that.

Maybe it's possible she has vascular d. due to some circulation problem that
tests haven't picked up?

___
"Don't worry Alba. I'd never let anyone else kill you." -- Naked Tango
Darryl - 08 Aug 2004 20:17 GMT
>She was worked up by a neuropsychiatrist, geriatric psychologist, alzheimer's
>specialist and got a CAT scan.  Doesn't mean they couldn't have missed
>something tho.

If this many specialists agree that it's AD, then put you mind at
ease.  As you've learned, the dementias can masquerade as one another
and most are only confirmed at death.  

I say put your mind at ease although one neurologist, one geriatric
specialist and even one psychiatrist concluded that my Dad had AD.  As
I mentioned previously, it was found that my Dad suffered from
Dementia with Lewy Bodies at autopsy.  Interestingly, while
hallucinations may be a hallmark of DLB, he only had them during his
final days.  Delusions and gait disturbance were different matters.

>Maybe it's possible she has vascular d. due to some circulation problem that
>tests haven't picked up?

Especially with a head CT, it's unlikely that they've overlooked
vascular dementia; however, here's a link to a medical site on this
disease.  Take a look at the workup section (near the bottom).

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3150.htm

Darryl.
Rose - 09 Aug 2004 09:12 GMT
>Subject: Re: I am so sorry. I'm new. I was a legitimate post...
>From: Darryl umpolung@REMOVEhotmail.com
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>If this many specialists agree that it's AD, then put you mind at
>ease.

Ah but they don't agree. One thinks it's vascular dementia because he thinks
her personality is too much intact for AD. One hasn't seen her since he
orginally diagnosed her with cognitive disorder not otherwise specified (in her
much earlier stage).  So only one of the three thinks she has AD.  He said I
should tell caregivers she has "mild to moderate dementia" because she could
have a mixed form.

This is kind of interesting... last night she had one of her major forgetting
spells, which has happened once or twice before when she wakes up at night.  
When I gently gave her reminders, she said in a very mature, firm way "You have
to understand, something is wrong with my memory," as though she felt I wasn't
accepting that.  It was an odd contradiction...to be blanking out on such major
things but on the other hand, to be behaving in an adult, mature manner and
explaining her problem in a firm and parental way.  I wonder if this
contradiction is due to her meds...they're helping her behavior and her
understanding of herself even though her memory is still a big problem.

For years other children and spouses of dementia patients have been telling me
what is going to happen to my mother in such and so an amount of time, and what
to expect, but by and large nothing has happened the way people said it would.
Three years ago someone told me that within a year she would no longer be
apologizing to me for acting badly; it's 3 years later and sometimes she still
apologizes.

 

___
"Don't worry Alba. I'd never let anyone else kill you." -- Naked Tango
Robert E. Lewis - 09 Aug 2004 16:44 GMT
"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message

> >>She was worked up by a neuropsychiatrist, geriatric psychologist,
> >>alzheimer's specialist and got a CAT scan...

> >If this many specialists agree that it's AD, then put you mind at
> >ease.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> should tell caregivers she has "mild to moderate dementia" because she could
> have a mixed form.

> This is kind of interesting... last night she had one of her major forgetting
> spells, which has happened once or twice before when she wakes up at night.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> things but on the other hand, to be behaving in an adult, mature manner and
> explaining her problem in a firm and parental way...

> For years other children and spouses of dementia patients have been telling me
> what is going to happen to my mother in such and so an amount of time, and what
> to expect, but by and large nothing has happened the way people said it would.
> Three years ago someone told me that within a year she would no longer be
> apologizing to me for acting badly; it's 3 years later and sometimes she still
> apologizes.

That sounds very similar to the situation with my father.  part of his
problem is pernicious anemia -- he is noticeably worse as the time
approaches for his B-12 shot -- but he also has occasional, major memory
lapses a week or two after the shot. I thought vascular dementia was
probably the most likely cause (he has coronary blockages that haven't been
quite severe enough to require surgical intervention).  He had a head CAT
scan that supposedly found an aneurysm, followed quickly by an MRI that
found nothing. But on his really bad days,  outside observers (friends,
neighbors who happen to call or stop by) have said they thought his symptoms
suggested a mild stroke -- more than usual shuffling gait, longer pauses in
the middle of a sentence where he seems to have lost track of what he was
saying, etc.

But aside from the 'bad days' now and then, he hasn't really gotten a lot
worse in the past year; before that, he seemed to have stable periods and
then periods of rapid decline, then he would improve, but not to his
previous level.

Dad is still appreciative of the assistance I give him, though he did
complain privately to my sister that there are some things he doesn't know
how to do, because I 'won't let him' -- that when he tries, I always say
'I'll take care of that,' and take over.  But those are things he knew how
to do and forgot, *before* I took them over because he wasn't getting them
done.

Signature

Robert

(PS -- thanks to those who discussed -- way back -- about Medicare paying
for pedicure/nail trimming when the patient cannot do it himself.  We
finally got Dad to a podiatrist a week ago, and while he didn't have the
nail fungus as I feared, he did have two severely ingrown nails, and the
rest were just disgustingly long and beyond his ability to cut. He is
scheduled for apparently regular visits every two months.)

Evelyn Ruut - 09 Aug 2004 17:30 GMT
Ida gets a regularly scheduled podiatrist visit at the nursing home.
It is absolutely necessary.   The toenails often get very tough to cut in
the elderly.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

>
> "Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> to do and forgot, *before* I took them over because he wasn't getting them
> done.
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Aug 2004 13:09 GMT
> My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
> forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
> the book recommendations and the advice. I am amazed that Alzheimer's
> pts can manipulate.

Hi Buffy,

You didn't upset anyone, it is just that often someone will come here to
tease us, so we have to sometimes take care who we reply to.  I am glad you
are a real person, not a troll.   I am going to comment on the rest of this
posting, because there ARE tests which can give a pretty good definition of
what the cause of the person's dementia is.

A Cat scan for instance, can show if there are the spaces, that show the
characteristic shrinking of the brain.   I believe it is usually looked for
in the area of the hippocampus.

There is a thyroid test, because thyroid imbalances can show up as a form of
dementia too.

There is usually a question and answer type of a test, usually administered
by a psychiatrist, which would indicate just how much impairment there is.

Then there is a very simple question and answer test a doctor can give right
in his office.

So obviously some of these tests were given for your mother to receive her
diagnosis.  You must also be aware that there is a vascular dementia which
comes from clogged arteries in the brain.   It manifests exactly the same
way as alzheimers, so you would not know the difference.

It is not possible for a layperson to know what kind of dementia it is
without these tests and scans etc.   But no matter what kind of dementia she
is suffering from, the way of dealing with it on a day to day basis is
pretty much the same.

If the Zoloft she is taking isn't working well enough, they can and often
do, increase the amount.   At the very least it is a big help to have the
person feeling happier and less inclined to be stressed out and angry.
There are also antipsychotic medications that can be given if she is
imagining things that upset her.    Your doctor would be the one to talk to
about that.

Good Luck, Buffy... and I am glad you found this group.   It can be very
difficult and very lonely at times dealing with a dementia patient.

My mother in law is now in a nursing home, and she is doing quite well
there, but I remember VERY well how difficult she could be at times, and how
hard it was and how depressing it was to have someone in your house who is
experiencing these kinds of symptoms.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Dennis White - 06 Aug 2004 16:09 GMT
> > My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
> > forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> hard it was and how depressing it was to have someone in your house who is
> experiencing these kinds of symptoms.

   The above is all excellent advice, IMO.  The one thing that stood out
for me in Buffy's post was that her mother seemed to do fine on a cognitive
test administered by a professional.  Of course, my observations are based
on Buffys letter...I am not a doctor...I only suggest caregivers and family
understand that a fair amount of those who appear to suffer from AD, do in
fact suffer from another form of dementia.  But as Evelyn points out, the
type of care and compassion given to those individuals is pretty much the
same.
   I notice most on this ng talk about pharmeceutical psychiatric drugs to
control depression, etc.  Does anyone here have experience with alternative
meds?  The friend I care for has been a devotee of naturapathy and
chiropractic for over 50 years, and is very adament about not using standard
pharmaceuticals.  I believe his life would be greatly enhanced if he would,
but he simply won't and I am not about to force him even though I think his
naturopath and chiropractor are useless to him at this stage.  I will admit
that some of the dietary substances he's taken over the years seem to have
helped him, but none of those have anything to do with his mental state.
I'm talking immune support and eyes mostly.  Anyone out there have any
experience with friends/family that are not about to change medical
directions at this late stage?  Personally, I think his naturapath and
chiropractor are milking him at this stage, but he is cognizant enough to
decide how he wishes to spend his money, and it *is* his money after all!
Any ideas and/or comments?

Dennis
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Aug 2004 16:24 GMT
> > > My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
> > > forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
>
> Dennis

Dennis, you stand about the same chance of converting a committed
naturopathic person to try allopathic medicine, as you would in getting a
smoker to give up their drug of choice.

For what it is worth, maybe it could help if you explained to your friend
that certain of the pharmaceuticals in use for alzheimers actually replace
missing chemicals in the brain.

If a person had low thyroid, they wouldn't hesitate to take thyroid
medication.  Sometimes some part of our body no longer produces the things
they should.   In the case of Aricept, there is noticeable improvement when
they go on it because it enables another chemical to function in the brain.

A health food store alternative would be Galantamine, which is also sold as
a drug too, called Reminyl (?) Maybe you could convince him that it is a
supplement and get him to take that?  There was one fellow who used to post
here, and he found it was actually quite a bit cheaper in the health food
store than as a prescription.

I can tell you of a couple of lady friends who insisted on going the
"natural" route only with breast and cervical cancer issues.   They are both
dead now :-(   One went so far as to go to the great pyramid for some
transformative spiritual healing stuff.   The other was into herbal and
spiritual and natural healing only.

Healthy living, natural foods, natural remedies and herbs have their place,
but when you are really sick with something really serious, it is better to
go to a regular doctor.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Dennis White - 06 Aug 2004 19:38 GMT
> Dennis, you stand about the same chance of converting a committed
> naturopathic person to try allopathic medicine, as you would in getting a
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> but when you are really sick with something really serious, it is better to
> go to a regular doctor.

Evelyn,
    Thanks for your words.  Of course you are right that it is about as
likely to get my friend involved in allopathic medicine as it would be to
convert a committed smoker.  Luckily, I *have* been able to get him to see a
geriatric MD, and involved in various research programs to track his mental
state.  I think one of the biggest problems "old-time" followers of
spiritual and alternative medicine is the insistence over the years by their
practitioners that the AMA, the FDA and the rest of the disbelieves were
only interested in suppressing the secret knowledge these healers possessed.
Of course that may have had an element of truth, but I do not believe it is
the overriding reason alternative meds are not taken completely seriously.
Especially when I see the kind of gizmos and gimmicks I have found around
the house of my friend.  His wife died of cancer years ago, and in a
desperate bid to alleviate the illness they turned to everything from phony
"Chakra transmitters" to "pendulum therapy" and harmful self-administered
electric shock.  Caring for a person with diminished capacity who has a
history of such practices and beliefs can be a challenge!  Still, I am
satisfied in knowing that my direction holds a certain amount of water with
my friend, and that ultimately I have POA...something I hope never to have
to exercise.
    Thanks for the tip on galantamine.  I'll do a bit of research and see
if the dietary version has the same or at least effective strength as the
prescription.  I am a firm believer in health and nutrition.  I even believe
chiropractic is good for alignment of the spine and certain muscles...and
that naturopaths can offer some preventative measures.  However, I have
become very jaded about these practices, especially as administered to an
elderly individual with dementia, all the while presenting them as "cures"
for AD, etc.  Their only value is that they keep my friend cheerfully
convinced that he is getting better every day, when of course he is
degenerating at a rapid pace.

Dennis
Darryl - 07 Aug 2004 04:28 GMT
>     Thanks for the tip on galantamine.  I'll do a bit of research and see
>if the dietary version has the same or at least effective strength as the
>prescription.  I am a firm believer in health and nutrition.  I even believe

Like Evelyn says, the active ingredient in Galantamine (galanthus
nivalis) is Reminyl; however, with the latter you know what dose
you're getting.  Like Adelle mentions, you cannot be sure of a
standard dose in an herbal product nor I suspect would you like to
take a chance with your friends brain.  

I go to a chiropractor for low back pain but if he/she mentions the
subluxation theory of disease wrt AD, I would kindly nod and run from
the room.  

Unfortunately, there are few very treatments for sufferers of
dementia--don't let alternative therapists convince you otherwise.

Darryl

>chiropractic is good for alignment of the spine and certain muscles...and
>that naturopaths can offer some preventative measures.  However, I have
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Dennis
Dennis White - 07 Aug 2004 08:05 GMT
> >     Thanks for the tip on galantamine.  I'll do a bit of research and see
> >if the dietary version has the same or at least effective strength as the
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Unfortunately, there are few very treatments for sufferers of
> dementia--don't let alternative therapists convince you otherwise.

    I believe that chiropractic may be good for relieving some
issues...muscular, spinal, etc.  but I would never go to one to "cure" the
conditions many claim to!  Especially chiropractors of the ilk my friend
relies on.  I think he is nothing more than quack.  As far as
Galantamine...I did enough research to come to the conclusion that one more
supplement is not what I want to subject Evan to.  And that (like you and
Evelyn point out) there is no way to be assured of the consistent strength
of the supplement.  I also see far too many contraindications and side
effects to feel comfortable in administering without benefit of a medical
degree.
    I have seen too many allopathic *and* alternative medicos lead their
patients down the wrong path.  I am a very pro-active consumer of
healthcare.  Unfortunately my friend Evan has clung on to some very
questionable (at the least) practices over the years.  Still, I feel I
cannot force him to give up his belief system at this late stage.  I think
it would be his final downfall.  Fortunately he can afford (for the moment)
to continue his "treatments".  I wonder how many others (if any, on this ng)
have similar issues concerning eccentric or questionable "cures" sought out
by their loved ones.

Dennis
Adelle D. Stavis, Esq. - 06 Aug 2004 20:32 GMT
(snippage)

>     I notice most on this ng talk about pharmeceutical psychiatric drugs to
> control depression, etc.  Does anyone here have experience with alternative
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Dennis

Dennis,

I have moderate depression and haven't tolerated the side affects of many
anti-depressants. I take Sam-e and St. John's Wart, 3X each day. It improves
my functioning, though not as much as Paxil did.  I'm not sure natural
supplements would be enough to support the loss of the natural brain
chemicals that occurs in dementia, based on the difference in my personal
response between supplements and anti-depressants. Than again, there may be
no harm in trying.

It's important to get a brand which has been verified to be a standardized
dose per tab/capsule. I use Spring Valley brand of St. John's Wart, which I
get at Wal-mart simply out of convenience and price. Sam-e must be
individually wrapped; oxidation makes it lose it's properties. I use the the
brand Costco carries.

If going off the supplement needs to be done (like for surgery) you have to
wean down just as you need to for the antidepressants. If I accidentally
forget a dose, I can really feel it in my ability to control my emotions and
thinking. Maintaining the regular dosing is important.

Adelle
Dennis White - 06 Aug 2004 23:39 GMT
> I have moderate depression and haven't tolerated the side affects of many
> anti-depressants. I take Sam-e and St. John's Wart, 3X each day. It improves
> my functioning, though not as much as Paxil did.

snip...

    Thanks for the info.  My friend (Evan) is an old pro at supplements and
he's been taking SamE and St. John's Wort for years.  Unfortunately his
naturopath also had him taking over 50 other daily supplements until earlier
this year. Not 50 pills a day...50 different supplements!  Finally I got him
to cut back to about 15 different sups a day, and it was a struggle to get
him to allow me to put them together in daily medboxes for the week.  Now
that I've shown him it makes things easier for him, he has come to rely on
me for that.   For years he insisted on sorting them out on his own twice a
day.  It took up about 3-4 hours of every day!  His Chiropractor gave up the
old "snap crackle and pop" manipulation technique about a year ago in favor
of pointing a pen laser at different parts of the body in order to relieve
physical and mental dysfunction.  It makes me a bit angry to see what I
consider to be taking advantage of a client, but I remain cheerful and
supportive in spite of it.
   It all sounds kooky, doesn't it?  I should add that my friend has
suffered from depression and other mental illness for many years.  Hence his
acceptance of what seems so obviously bogus to those around him.  I have at
least promised him he can continue with his "treatments" (twice a week) as
long as he wishes.  His family abandoned him many years ago, and have no
interest whatsoever in visiting or caring for him even though they live in
the same city.  I think I am all he really has in the way of friendship.
For many years his only social outlet was his "doctors" so I am loathe to
take any of that away from him now.  I know eventually a line will have to
be drawn.  In all honesty I hope he passes before coming to that.  I believe
his happiness should be put far above his health at this point.

Dennis
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Aug 2004 02:41 GMT
> > I have moderate depression and haven't tolerated the side affects of many
> > anti-depressants. I take Sam-e and St. John's Wart, 3X each day. It
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Dennis

Dennis, he is so lucky to have you.
I agree with you about keeping him happy.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Rose - 07 Aug 2004 08:45 GMT
>he is cognizant enough to
>decide how he wishes to spend his money, and it *is* his money after all!
>Any ideas and/or comments?
>
>Dennis

Well, people who believe that Western medicine and pharmaceuticals are bad
can't seem to be swayed, I'm afraid.  I'm a "whatever works" person.  If
prescription drugs work and are reasonably safe, great. If acupuncture is doing
the trick, go for it. On the other hand I get so angry at people who go on the
radio and preach about the evils of anti-depressants, or  chemotherapy or AIDS
drugs, and try to convince people to stop taking them.  Their bias against
Western medicine is so deep that they can't or won't see that some people
really are helped and I worry that vulnerable people might make a knee-jerk
decision to listen to them and quit their meds.  If 3 people out of 3 million
have a bad reaction to an drug we get books written about how evil doctors and
drug companies are and all they want to do is make us sick and destroy our
lives.

I believe we have to be vigiliant about prescription drugs AND herbal remedies
and other alternative therapies. What works for Madge might not work for Mike;
Dr. X might be a fine doctor and Dr. Y might be a crackpot handing out
unnecessary drugs right and left.  Ms. Natural Medicine X might be a skilled
healer who knows what she's talking about while Ms. Natural Medicine Y might be
a "snake oil saleswoman."  We have to use common sense.

OK, I think that was me ranting on a soapbox.  :-o

I just want to add that some drugs which are helpful to young and middle aged
people can be harmful to older folks though so one has to be extra careful
about both RX and over the counter meds. I'd be careful about herbs, too,
because they're much like meds.

___
"Don't worry Alba. I'd never let anyone else kill you." -- Naked Tango
Rose - 07 Aug 2004 09:00 GMT
Buffy wrote"

>My deepest apologies to all who read my post yesterday.  Please
>forgive me for upsetting the good people on this list. Thank you for
>the book recommendations and the advice. I am amazed that Alzheimer's
>pts can manipulate.

Alzheimer's patients run a wide gamut between having no symptoms at all (the
earliest stage) and being totally nonfunctional.  There's many gradations in
between.  So in short, it seems to me that dementia patients can do all the
great AND lousy emotional/ psychological stuff the rest of us do.  I find
myself that in some ways some dementia sufferers are a bit like kids.
(Remember the old saying "he's in his second childhood"?)  Kids don't have the
brain capacity and ability to care for themselves that adults do but they can
reason, manipulate, charm, cajole, plan,  love, care, get angry, feel sad, etc.
I think the reason for manipulation by kids AND dementia sufferers is that
they have fewer ways to survive on their own so they feel on some level that
they have to manipulate in order to get their needs met.  Elderly people are
great survivors in my opinion.  If they weren't, they wouldn't have lived so
long. I don't think dementia totally wipes out this quality in its early to
middle stages.

I'm sorry I seemed to assume you were one of the bad guys.  The reason I was
wary was that you said "Mommykins" throughout the post, not just once or twice.
But lots of honest people do things some trolls do without realizing it.
(Including me, and once or twice I've had to convince people I wasn't trolling
when they thought I was.)  That's how trolls mess things up...they cause us not
to know whom to trust.  :/  Anyway, all is well now and welcome to the group!



___
"Don't worry Alba. I'd never let anyone else kill you." -- Naked Tango
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.