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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2004

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What can be done about nursing homes??

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Aimee S - 22 Jul 2004 05:21 GMT
I am so fed up with the home my mother is in. She is TOTALLY out of it,
so she can't complain if anything is wrong. I noticed about 6 months ago
that her teeth looked bad and complained to the nurse's about it. Long
story short, they finally got her checked and her gums are badly
infected and all her teeth need pulled.
I've had to make sure things were done ever since.
When she finally got an appt to see a surgeon, he said they would pull
her teeth on the 3rd of Aug. I had to call the doctor and the home to
make sure she was on antibotic's at least 2 weeks before the surgery. I
shouldn't have to do that. Plus they had to take her out of the home for
the dentist appt and now they wanted to take her out again 2 times to be
approved for the surgery. I had a FIT on the phone today about why they
had to take her out twice before the surgery. So suddenly now they can
take her out once. They don't care about the people just all the money
they can make on them. It just makes me SICK!!
The home she is in is just beautiful, they're always spending money to
make it look good, but don't want to have the staff that is really
needed there. I would rather the place wasn't so fancy and they had more
people there taking care of the people.
Sometimes I really don't think, they want to cure alzheimers they are
making to much money on it..

Sorry, just needed to vent. I just wish they would CARE about the people
and how they're treatment affects them.  And if they had taken better
care of my mother her teeth would have never gotten so bad.

Thanks for listening, I would appriecate any thoughts on this.

Thank You

Aimee
DuPuisR@webtv.net - 22 Jul 2004 05:40 GMT
Nursing homes are not working on a cure for Alzheimers, and nursing home
workers are notoriously underpaid.
Evelyn Ruut - 22 Jul 2004 13:20 GMT
> I am so fed up with the home my mother is in. She is TOTALLY out of it,
> so she can't complain if anything is wrong. I noticed about 6 months ago
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Aimee

Aimee,

I am so sorry to hear your mom isn't getting the care you feel she needs.
We have to always keep watch that things are going right ourselves, don't
we?

Your mom is fortunate that she has you to look after these things.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Mary Gordon - 22 Jul 2004 17:07 GMT
Aimee, I dunno about where you are, but here, nursing homes don't
cover dental work - its up to the family to schedule dental checks,
either with the dentist who visits the facility, or at an outside
dental office - and obviously, any actual work would have to be done
in a dental office or hospital.

My MIL stopped wearing her plates about 2 1/2 years before she died,
and several of her remaining teeth were broken. However she wasn't in
pain, and she would have had to be put under to be examined or treated
(there is no way she would have cooperated or understood what was
going on) - and the prospect of putting her throught the impacts of a
general anesthetic made us realize that there really wasn't much point
- and that is a choice a lot of families make. The experience for most
of us is that putting someone under has an immediate and often
permanent impact on cognition (i.e. it cseems to throw the person for
a sudden decline from which they never really recover).

Is there a point to putting your mother through this if she's already
at an advanced stage of the illness? What are you hoping to achieve?
Even if they had sent her to a dentist 6 months ago, wouldn't they
have had to put her under to do any work?

Just asking. Having been through this, my personal take on homes is
that if they are keeping your mother clean, comfortable, and as happy
as humanly possible, they're doing just about all that can be done for
later stage AD sufferers.

Mary G.
Aimee S - 22 Jul 2004 20:30 GMT
My mother's gums are BADLY infected and painful, if this wasn't the
case, there is NO way I would have her teeth pulled.
It's a no win situation...
Advocate147 - 22 Jul 2004 18:01 GMT
I will second your comments about nursing homes.    If you think the patients
are in a daze, the caretaking personnel, including some of the nurses and
doctors are totally immune to the conditions the patients are in.   The home is
lovely, but most of the patients are medicated with anti-depressants.    And
those anti-depressants harm the other people not taking them, by a mind/body
connection, literally.   They deteriorate much sooner than they ordinarily
would.
Please read my theory on the use of stimulants and how they can harm a second
or their party simply by mind connection.
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
I know this to be a fact.   I have a dear person in the nursing home and she
has had a terrible time since she became friendly with someone on an
anti-depressant.   She is schizophrenic, they put her in the hospital when her
mind was getting distorted (usually she is allright for the most part) and the
doctor put her on Risperdal (what is used for schizophrenics also) without the
accompanying medication that would take care of tardive dyskenesia.   I made a
fuss about it, and the head nurse told her mother, the girl is fine, Gail is
the problem.
Gail is the problem because can they not see she has the involuntary movements
where before she never had them.   Very unpopular there, as I asked for her to
be put in another room where no anti-depressants are used.   Not being the
mother, they did not listen.  Finally, they consented, and she is having a
better time, but I expect any day they will forget that that made her ill in
the first place and place her with anyone, anti-depressant or not.
They are oblivious to health problems unless the person is capable of fussing.
and most are not.
Can some of your mothers teeth be saved.  She can probably eat better with any
of her own teeth rather than none or dentures.
And they run the risk of losing the dentures.   It is a rare place  that will
put the patient' s interest first.
This sounds garbled but I am as frustrated as you.  But I know a few
adjustments can make all the difference in the health of the patient.   But
getting them to comply is being a nuisance according to them.
Good luck
Gail Michael
Mary Gordon - 23 Jul 2004 02:02 GMT
Gail, not sure if you've dealt with AD patients, but if a bridge is
removable, no matter how diligent the staff, the person can and will
take it out, and it can end up anywhere - its not the fault of the
staff.

My mother in law not only would take out her plates and put them in
various wierd and not so wonderful places, but absolutely would not
leave her hearing aids alone, or keep her eye glasses on. Things kept
vanishing - and I don't blame staff, since I know my MIL was quite
capable of hiding things in the toes of shoes, flushing them down the
toilet, jamming them into a laundry hamper, or actually throwing them
out (which is what she did with the saucers to her teacups instead of
washing them). On top of that, in an AD ward, the other residents are
also in the same state, and they go in and out of each other's rooms
picking items off and dropping others off at random. Its just about
next to impossible to keep track of possessions.

Mary G.
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 02:33 GMT
Mary,

The big thing with nursing homes is not so much belongings.   They may vanish
by the patient's own forgetfulness.
I was at the nursing home today, and I am just as distressed as can be.  I
guess I am sounding off now.
Just about everybody is on an anti-depressant, and I don't know if you know my
constant harping on my theory of how harmful anti-depressants can be to a
second, third, etc party.
This is something EVERYONE should know, but hardly anyone believes.  And it is
affecting more and more of the population.  But in nursing homes, it is
disastrous.
Ready my layman's theory on the cause of crohns which is only one example of
the results of ADs.   They cause many unrecognized illnesses.
It is on website:
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
It is a strange and almost unbelievable theory, but years of observation have
shown it to be true.   Of course, in homes where the patients have alzheimers,
it may not be so noticeable, as those people are not so aware as to form close
relationships or friendships that will cause pain to them.
But my friend in the home is fairly young, (45 yrs) and is schizophrenic.  
However, most of her mind reasoning was well.  Her mother could not handle the
illness, so she brought her to me and she lived with me 8 years.  She was a
delight, and I love her dearly.  I had to put her in the nursing home, as she
had a childhood friend of her brothers and he loved her also.  Only problem was
he used marijuana, then cocaine, and he was making both of us ill.  So I
thought a change among people would divert her attention from him.   Everything
was fine in the home a few years, with 2 others in her room (not on ADs).  When
her friend OD on the cocaine, and succumbed at an early age, I felt sad, but I
thought she would never again be bothered by ADs.  I could never guess that the
nursing home was saturated with the anti-depressants.   Well, one woman was
placed in her room recently who is on ADs, and they became friends.   My friend
became so ill and more mentally unstable, and had to be hospitalized.   I
begged the nursing home before and after to change her room to residents not on
ADs.  They finally did, and she is doing better, but all the residents seem to
get so ill right  after coming to the home and many go home because of it.  
And she  was put on Risperdal without a counter med to avoid Tardive
Dyskinesia,  and I cry when I see her.   She never had that problem at my house
or in the first years at the home.
Her mother visits her constantly, for a few minutes each time, but doesn't
understand the conditions.  Actually no one can,
it is such a hard concept to follow.
I don't know if I am making sense to others now, but I am so certain of the
damage of ADs, it has become a battleground everywhere.  Everyone is depressed
and placed on an AD, so the cycle perpetuates further and further.
If I talked to you in person, I could go on and on.   If they would put the
residents on Valium instead, that would do no harm to anyone as it is a true
tranquillizer.
Natural herbs with natural stimulants cause crohns also, as does Xanax, Buspar,
Depakote, Flexeril, kava kava, st johns wort, etc. etc.
They say tranquillizers are addictive, but what does that mean to the person in
a home.  Besides better to be addicted to that than to be on something that
will do damage to others.
This post is for EVERYONE, because many people are experiencing depression or
illnesses that can't be explained.
But back to your MIL, I do hope she is comfortable as can be, I know you care.
The belongings are essential , but I don't know the answer to that.   I just
keep replacing my friends clothes, which is a much minor issue than teeth or
hearing aids, etc.
May I add that one of the nurses came down with crohns, and I try to explain to
them, it is the environment of ADs.
Thanks for taking the time to write, this is so important a subject to me,
because of who it affects and will eventually affect many more, or everyone
will know someone being affected.
The FDA  should deregulate tranquillizers like Valium.   That would be the
answer to many  hardships in the nursing homes, in fact it would be the answer
to a smooth operation in the homes.
Sorry if I over talked, but it is on my mind constantly.
Again the website to read, is
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
I proclaim this every chance I get
Some people may wish to go on the Alt.crohns-colitis group.   There people
discuss their illnesses and get good support but the better thing is to be
aware of  the destruction of ADs.   Not many people believe the theory, but
pediatric children are affected and therein lies my great concern also, and
usually they will abide by the theory, thus the children can become normal.  
Hopefully I am not putting a hex on this, (a little superstitious).

Thanks for listening
Gail Michael
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 02:47 GMT
I don't know if I posted the crohns group correctly.
It is   Alt.support.crohns-colitis    for anyone that is interested.
And my website (Put up by the group) is
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm

If I knew how to crosspost, I would advertise it everywhere.   I guess that
might be called spamming, but it is meant to inform and not spam.

Gail Michael
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Jul 2004 11:56 GMT
And a new spammer is born.......

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

> I don't know if I posted the crohns group correctly.
> It is   Alt.support.crohns-colitis    for anyone that is interested.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Gail Michael
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 14:29 GMT
Evelyn

The label "spam" bothers me not at all.
If repetition is spam, I AM the biggest spammer of all.

Gail
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Jul 2004 11:55 GMT
(big snip)

> Some people may wish to go on the Alt.crohns-colitis group.   There people
> discuss their illnesses and get good support but the better thing is to be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Thanks for listening
> Gail Michael

Gail, you are making a few assertions that I do not believe to be held up by
medical facts.

First of all, my mother in law never had ANY symptoms of crohns, and she has
alzheimers now.  I don't think I have ever heard of a connection between
crohns and alzheimers before and to be honest it sounds like some pet theory
not backed up by science.

Secondly, Valium is HIGHLY addictive, and that is why it is a controlled
substance.  If that stuff were available over the counter there would be new
addicts all over the place.  There are quite enough substances that are
addictive out there right now.

Thirdly, antidepressants are used widely for PEOPLE WHO ARE DEPRESSED.  I
have friends who are on antidepressants as well, and it isn't problematical.
It is often a depressing situation when people become ill with alzheimers,
and they know they are losing their ability to use their minds.
Antidepressants are a MERCY for these poor individuals.   Before my mother
in law got on antidepressants she cried continuously.   They actually
enabled her to have some small enjoyment of her life.

Fourthly, Risperdol is NOT an antidepressant at all.   It is an
anti-delusional drug.   It is used for alzheimer patients who are having
DISTURBING DELUSIONS.   These delusions can be absolutely terrifying for
them.  It is certainly not sensible to waste it on someone who doesn't need
it.   My mother in law absolutely needed it.  It made her stop having
bizarre delusions of imaginary animals that were starving, imaginary babies
that needed feeding that were being hidden from her,  etc.

May I suggest that you educate yourself just a little more about these drugs
and what they do and what they are used for?   Also, the crohns thing, is a
bit over the top too.....

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 14:14 GMT
Evelyn,

I am aware Risperdal is an anti-psychotic drug and not a stimulant.   I readily
see the need for anti-depressants but they are used exceedingly freely in many
cases, and do have the side effect I spoke about.
Yes, the assertions are not held up by medical facts, the physicians or
pharmaceutical cos. and that is why almost no one is aware of the damage they
can do to an innocent party.   But I would concern myself not, if the ADs were
not harmful to others.   I think I could find better things to do.   It is not
a scientific theory, but it is a theory that can easily be proven by pediatric
children whose mothers  mostly are on ADs, and the children get exceedingly
ill.  At our county hospital, the newborns of mothers on stimulant drugs have
rumination (throwing up constantly) and they are given to surrogate mothers on
no stimulants, so they can cease the rumination and therefore thrive.  
If I could, I would sell my house and have a study done, but the funds would
not even be sufficient.
Yes, Valium is addictive, but not to the extent commonly believed.
Your personality may help you in not becoming affected by your friends ADs,  or
you may not be in such close mind contact (although it doesn't take much at
times).   But unscientific, illogical, weird though it may all sound, the
theory is  correct, because I see and have seen as much suffering by an
innocent party due to ADs in a person taking them for a very legitimate
purpose. (one being crohns illness)
I doubt anyone on ADs that has alzheimers could affect anyone, as their mind is
not clear enough to project thoughts.   And of course, I did not mean that
alzheimers and crohns have a connection, although it may be possible to have
both, I am sure very rarely.
Sincerely,
Gail
Unfortunately, my theory is not one whose time has come, but for the sake of
humanity I hope one day it will whether I see it or not.  Dr. Burrill Crohn,
after whom the illness is named, never saw a credible cause only the suffering
caused by the illness.
 
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