Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2004
What can be done about nursing homes??
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Aimee S - 22 Jul 2004 05:21 GMT I am so fed up with the home my mother is in. She is TOTALLY out of it, so she can't complain if anything is wrong. I noticed about 6 months ago that her teeth looked bad and complained to the nurse's about it. Long story short, they finally got her checked and her gums are badly infected and all her teeth need pulled. I've had to make sure things were done ever since. When she finally got an appt to see a surgeon, he said they would pull her teeth on the 3rd of Aug. I had to call the doctor and the home to make sure she was on antibotic's at least 2 weeks before the surgery. I shouldn't have to do that. Plus they had to take her out of the home for the dentist appt and now they wanted to take her out again 2 times to be approved for the surgery. I had a FIT on the phone today about why they had to take her out twice before the surgery. So suddenly now they can take her out once. They don't care about the people just all the money they can make on them. It just makes me SICK!! The home she is in is just beautiful, they're always spending money to make it look good, but don't want to have the staff that is really needed there. I would rather the place wasn't so fancy and they had more people there taking care of the people. Sometimes I really don't think, they want to cure alzheimers they are making to much money on it..
Sorry, just needed to vent. I just wish they would CARE about the people and how they're treatment affects them. And if they had taken better care of my mother her teeth would have never gotten so bad.
Thanks for listening, I would appriecate any thoughts on this.
Thank You
Aimee
DuPuisR@webtv.net - 22 Jul 2004 05:40 GMT Nursing homes are not working on a cure for Alzheimers, and nursing home workers are notoriously underpaid.
Evelyn Ruut - 22 Jul 2004 13:20 GMT > I am so fed up with the home my mother is in. She is TOTALLY out of it, > so she can't complain if anything is wrong. I noticed about 6 months ago [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Aimee Aimee,
I am so sorry to hear your mom isn't getting the care you feel she needs. We have to always keep watch that things are going right ourselves, don't we?
Your mom is fortunate that she has you to look after these things.
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Mary Gordon - 22 Jul 2004 17:07 GMT Aimee, I dunno about where you are, but here, nursing homes don't cover dental work - its up to the family to schedule dental checks, either with the dentist who visits the facility, or at an outside dental office - and obviously, any actual work would have to be done in a dental office or hospital.
My MIL stopped wearing her plates about 2 1/2 years before she died, and several of her remaining teeth were broken. However she wasn't in pain, and she would have had to be put under to be examined or treated (there is no way she would have cooperated or understood what was going on) - and the prospect of putting her throught the impacts of a general anesthetic made us realize that there really wasn't much point - and that is a choice a lot of families make. The experience for most of us is that putting someone under has an immediate and often permanent impact on cognition (i.e. it cseems to throw the person for a sudden decline from which they never really recover).
Is there a point to putting your mother through this if she's already at an advanced stage of the illness? What are you hoping to achieve? Even if they had sent her to a dentist 6 months ago, wouldn't they have had to put her under to do any work?
Just asking. Having been through this, my personal take on homes is that if they are keeping your mother clean, comfortable, and as happy as humanly possible, they're doing just about all that can be done for later stage AD sufferers.
Mary G.
Aimee S - 22 Jul 2004 20:30 GMT My mother's gums are BADLY infected and painful, if this wasn't the case, there is NO way I would have her teeth pulled. It's a no win situation...
Advocate147 - 22 Jul 2004 18:01 GMT I will second your comments about nursing homes. If you think the patients are in a daze, the caretaking personnel, including some of the nurses and doctors are totally immune to the conditions the patients are in. The home is lovely, but most of the patients are medicated with anti-depressants. And those anti-depressants harm the other people not taking them, by a mind/body connection, literally. They deteriorate much sooner than they ordinarily would. Please read my theory on the use of stimulants and how they can harm a second or their party simply by mind connection. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm I know this to be a fact. I have a dear person in the nursing home and she has had a terrible time since she became friendly with someone on an anti-depressant. She is schizophrenic, they put her in the hospital when her mind was getting distorted (usually she is allright for the most part) and the doctor put her on Risperdal (what is used for schizophrenics also) without the accompanying medication that would take care of tardive dyskenesia. I made a fuss about it, and the head nurse told her mother, the girl is fine, Gail is the problem. Gail is the problem because can they not see she has the involuntary movements where before she never had them. Very unpopular there, as I asked for her to be put in another room where no anti-depressants are used. Not being the mother, they did not listen. Finally, they consented, and she is having a better time, but I expect any day they will forget that that made her ill in the first place and place her with anyone, anti-depressant or not. They are oblivious to health problems unless the person is capable of fussing. and most are not. Can some of your mothers teeth be saved. She can probably eat better with any of her own teeth rather than none or dentures. And they run the risk of losing the dentures. It is a rare place that will put the patient' s interest first. This sounds garbled but I am as frustrated as you. But I know a few adjustments can make all the difference in the health of the patient. But getting them to comply is being a nuisance according to them. Good luck Gail Michael
Mary Gordon - 23 Jul 2004 02:02 GMT Gail, not sure if you've dealt with AD patients, but if a bridge is removable, no matter how diligent the staff, the person can and will take it out, and it can end up anywhere - its not the fault of the staff.
My mother in law not only would take out her plates and put them in various wierd and not so wonderful places, but absolutely would not leave her hearing aids alone, or keep her eye glasses on. Things kept vanishing - and I don't blame staff, since I know my MIL was quite capable of hiding things in the toes of shoes, flushing them down the toilet, jamming them into a laundry hamper, or actually throwing them out (which is what she did with the saucers to her teacups instead of washing them). On top of that, in an AD ward, the other residents are also in the same state, and they go in and out of each other's rooms picking items off and dropping others off at random. Its just about next to impossible to keep track of possessions.
Mary G.
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 02:33 GMT Mary,
The big thing with nursing homes is not so much belongings. They may vanish by the patient's own forgetfulness. I was at the nursing home today, and I am just as distressed as can be. I guess I am sounding off now. Just about everybody is on an anti-depressant, and I don't know if you know my constant harping on my theory of how harmful anti-depressants can be to a second, third, etc party. This is something EVERYONE should know, but hardly anyone believes. And it is affecting more and more of the population. But in nursing homes, it is disastrous. Ready my layman's theory on the cause of crohns which is only one example of the results of ADs. They cause many unrecognized illnesses. It is on website: http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm It is a strange and almost unbelievable theory, but years of observation have shown it to be true. Of course, in homes where the patients have alzheimers, it may not be so noticeable, as those people are not so aware as to form close relationships or friendships that will cause pain to them. But my friend in the home is fairly young, (45 yrs) and is schizophrenic. However, most of her mind reasoning was well. Her mother could not handle the illness, so she brought her to me and she lived with me 8 years. She was a delight, and I love her dearly. I had to put her in the nursing home, as she had a childhood friend of her brothers and he loved her also. Only problem was he used marijuana, then cocaine, and he was making both of us ill. So I thought a change among people would divert her attention from him. Everything was fine in the home a few years, with 2 others in her room (not on ADs). When her friend OD on the cocaine, and succumbed at an early age, I felt sad, but I thought she would never again be bothered by ADs. I could never guess that the nursing home was saturated with the anti-depressants. Well, one woman was placed in her room recently who is on ADs, and they became friends. My friend became so ill and more mentally unstable, and had to be hospitalized. I begged the nursing home before and after to change her room to residents not on ADs. They finally did, and she is doing better, but all the residents seem to get so ill right after coming to the home and many go home because of it. And she was put on Risperdal without a counter med to avoid Tardive Dyskinesia, and I cry when I see her. She never had that problem at my house or in the first years at the home. Her mother visits her constantly, for a few minutes each time, but doesn't understand the conditions. Actually no one can, it is such a hard concept to follow. I don't know if I am making sense to others now, but I am so certain of the damage of ADs, it has become a battleground everywhere. Everyone is depressed and placed on an AD, so the cycle perpetuates further and further. If I talked to you in person, I could go on and on. If they would put the residents on Valium instead, that would do no harm to anyone as it is a true tranquillizer. Natural herbs with natural stimulants cause crohns also, as does Xanax, Buspar, Depakote, Flexeril, kava kava, st johns wort, etc. etc. They say tranquillizers are addictive, but what does that mean to the person in a home. Besides better to be addicted to that than to be on something that will do damage to others. This post is for EVERYONE, because many people are experiencing depression or illnesses that can't be explained. But back to your MIL, I do hope she is comfortable as can be, I know you care. The belongings are essential , but I don't know the answer to that. I just keep replacing my friends clothes, which is a much minor issue than teeth or hearing aids, etc. May I add that one of the nurses came down with crohns, and I try to explain to them, it is the environment of ADs. Thanks for taking the time to write, this is so important a subject to me, because of who it affects and will eventually affect many more, or everyone will know someone being affected. The FDA should deregulate tranquillizers like Valium. That would be the answer to many hardships in the nursing homes, in fact it would be the answer to a smooth operation in the homes. Sorry if I over talked, but it is on my mind constantly. Again the website to read, is http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm I proclaim this every chance I get Some people may wish to go on the Alt.crohns-colitis group. There people discuss their illnesses and get good support but the better thing is to be aware of the destruction of ADs. Not many people believe the theory, but pediatric children are affected and therein lies my great concern also, and usually they will abide by the theory, thus the children can become normal. Hopefully I am not putting a hex on this, (a little superstitious).
Thanks for listening Gail Michael
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 02:47 GMT I don't know if I posted the crohns group correctly. It is Alt.support.crohns-colitis for anyone that is interested. And my website (Put up by the group) is http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
If I knew how to crosspost, I would advertise it everywhere. I guess that might be called spamming, but it is meant to inform and not spam.
Gail Michael
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Jul 2004 11:56 GMT And a new spammer is born.......
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
> I don't know if I posted the crohns group correctly. > It is Alt.support.crohns-colitis for anyone that is interested. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Gail Michael Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 14:29 GMT Evelyn
The label "spam" bothers me not at all. If repetition is spam, I AM the biggest spammer of all.
Gail
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Jul 2004 11:55 GMT (big snip)
> Some people may wish to go on the Alt.crohns-colitis group. There people > discuss their illnesses and get good support but the better thing is to be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks for listening > Gail Michael Gail, you are making a few assertions that I do not believe to be held up by medical facts.
First of all, my mother in law never had ANY symptoms of crohns, and she has alzheimers now. I don't think I have ever heard of a connection between crohns and alzheimers before and to be honest it sounds like some pet theory not backed up by science.
Secondly, Valium is HIGHLY addictive, and that is why it is a controlled substance. If that stuff were available over the counter there would be new addicts all over the place. There are quite enough substances that are addictive out there right now.
Thirdly, antidepressants are used widely for PEOPLE WHO ARE DEPRESSED. I have friends who are on antidepressants as well, and it isn't problematical. It is often a depressing situation when people become ill with alzheimers, and they know they are losing their ability to use their minds. Antidepressants are a MERCY for these poor individuals. Before my mother in law got on antidepressants she cried continuously. They actually enabled her to have some small enjoyment of her life.
Fourthly, Risperdol is NOT an antidepressant at all. It is an anti-delusional drug. It is used for alzheimer patients who are having DISTURBING DELUSIONS. These delusions can be absolutely terrifying for them. It is certainly not sensible to waste it on someone who doesn't need it. My mother in law absolutely needed it. It made her stop having bizarre delusions of imaginary animals that were starving, imaginary babies that needed feeding that were being hidden from her, etc.
May I suggest that you educate yourself just a little more about these drugs and what they do and what they are used for? Also, the crohns thing, is a bit over the top too.....
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Advocate147 - 25 Jul 2004 14:14 GMT Evelyn,
I am aware Risperdal is an anti-psychotic drug and not a stimulant. I readily see the need for anti-depressants but they are used exceedingly freely in many cases, and do have the side effect I spoke about. Yes, the assertions are not held up by medical facts, the physicians or pharmaceutical cos. and that is why almost no one is aware of the damage they can do to an innocent party. But I would concern myself not, if the ADs were not harmful to others. I think I could find better things to do. It is not a scientific theory, but it is a theory that can easily be proven by pediatric children whose mothers mostly are on ADs, and the children get exceedingly ill. At our county hospital, the newborns of mothers on stimulant drugs have rumination (throwing up constantly) and they are given to surrogate mothers on no stimulants, so they can cease the rumination and therefore thrive. If I could, I would sell my house and have a study done, but the funds would not even be sufficient. Yes, Valium is addictive, but not to the extent commonly believed. Your personality may help you in not becoming affected by your friends ADs, or you may not be in such close mind contact (although it doesn't take much at times). But unscientific, illogical, weird though it may all sound, the theory is correct, because I see and have seen as much suffering by an innocent party due to ADs in a person taking them for a very legitimate purpose. (one being crohns illness) I doubt anyone on ADs that has alzheimers could affect anyone, as their mind is not clear enough to project thoughts. And of course, I did not mean that alzheimers and crohns have a connection, although it may be possible to have both, I am sure very rarely. Sincerely, Gail Unfortunately, my theory is not one whose time has come, but for the sake of humanity I hope one day it will whether I see it or not. Dr. Burrill Crohn, after whom the illness is named, never saw a credible cause only the suffering caused by the illness.
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