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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / August 2004Possible threat to research funding
The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I Diabetes, lupus, multiple sclerosis, etc. Increasing funding for embryonic research would eventually cause reduction in funding for research in other areas. Even adult stem cell research is unlikely to "cure" any of these disorders. If stem cells could cure these disorders patients would already be receiving such "cures" because scientists can already use adult stem cells to produce the cells affected by these disorders. They can produce pancreatic cells and both types of nerve/brain cells. Stem cells are only good for replacing damaged cells not protecting the body from its immune system or protecting brain neurons from attack by proteins. Other areas of research are more important. The only area of research that is potentially related to all these disorders is immunology. This field is obviously related to autoimmune disorders because such disorders involved the immune system attacking its own cells. Immunology might also be helpful in treating Alzheimer's and related disorders because such disorders could result from the failure of the immune system to eliminate proteins that pose a threat. UC Irvine researchers are working on a vaccine that would eliminate the toxic soluble oligomers that are common to the proteins that cause Alzheimer's as well as Parkinson's and similar disorders. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030424083324.htm I have a article urging a Congressional investigation of false claims about embryonic stem cell research that can be republished elsewhere provided that I'm credited as author. http://reasonmclucus.tripod.com/stem_71804.html >The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating >funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I >Diabetes, lupus, multiple sclerosis, etc. Increasing funding for >embryonic research would eventually cause reduction in funding for >research in other areas. This statement needs support. And no, it's not obvious or logical but needs some specific referenced backup beyond your opinion. Which programmes will be cut, in which research centre, in which countries, researching what avenues? >Even adult stem cell research is unlikely to "cure" any of these >disorders. Oh? Another prognostication without support. Re-read my first answer. As a person who has both diabetes and leukemia you will find me difficult to convince. >If stem cells could cure these disorders patients would >already be receiving such "cures" because scientists can already use >adult stem cells to produce the cells affected by these disorders. >They can produce pancreatic cells and both types of nerve/brain cells. In other words, if it hasn't been discovered already, then there is nothing left in medical science to discover. I vaguely remember reading that they said that around the start of the 20th century. Before penicillin, insulin....Then again in the '50s, before transplants, and cochlear implants and... >Stem cells are only good for replacing damaged cells not protecting >the body from its immune system or protecting brain neurons from >attack by proteins. Other areas of research are more important. > >The only area of research that is potentially related to all these >disorders is immunology. You might not be aware of this, but both diabetes and leukemia ravage the immune system. Consequently, I have hypogammaglobulinemia. Sorry, I digressed. You were saying? >This field is obviously related to >autoimmune disorders because such disorders involved the immune system [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/04/030424083324.htm the title is: "Toxic Molecule May Provide Key For Developing Vaccine Against Degenerative Diseases". Now, I'm not saying that they will not succeed in their quest. But there are two words you might wish to check in your dictionary: "Toxic." "May." Take your time. >I have a article urging a Congressional investigation of false claims >about embryonic stem cell research that can be republished elsewhere >provided that I'm credited as author. > http://reasonmclucus.tripod.com/stem_71804.html Well I could write something similar in response, but I suspect my qualifications and yours are equally valid. I have no medical qualifications. Yours are? Incidentally, what has the response been like to that link at the bottom: "You can support this site through PayPal." Are you a registered charity, or do the donees have to trust in your honesty? If you are going to spam four (and I suspect, more) newsgroups with your drivel, at least do some basic research first. I'll guarantee that you don't have Alzheimer's, diabetes, lupus or MS. So, preferably, forget my questions and just piss off. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, CLL w&w, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email.  SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >Even adult stem cell research is unlikely to "cure" any of these >disorders. See http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/ , Craig's story, for the story of Craig Garrison who was cured of multiple sclerosis by autologous stem cell transplant. You will not find much support in the ms group. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim > >Even adult stem cell research is unlikely to "cure" any of these > >disorders. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim thanks for the link. No he wasn't cured by stem cell transplant. He was cured by use of radiation and chemotherapy to zap the immune system so that it could no longer attack the myelin lining of his nerves. Once he was cured then he received a bone marrow transplant which is one of the most common forms of adult stem cell therapy. In the past it has been used for cancer treatment,but it increasingly being investigated for autoimmune disorders like MS and Type I Diabetes. Immune suppression has also produced postive results with Type I Diabetes and Lupus, I believe I have links to this information in my first article. >The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating >funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I >Diabetes, lupus, multiple sclerosis, etc. Increasing funding for >embryonic research would eventually cause reduction in funding for >research in other areas. I am not about to abandon research that is already showing positive results in humans for something which, if all goes amazingly well, will not show human benefit for at least fifteen years. Are you related to Tom Hennesy? > >The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating > >funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Are you related to Tom Hennesy? this guys and idiot,, probably a frikin born again christian all bent outta shape over eggs that they consider to be humans,, , in their logic,, menstuation would be illegal!!! what with all the dead eggs women drop each month,, stem cell research is the WAY of the future,, it WILL lead to the cures we are looking for,, perhaps the loss of funding into aspertane, bee venom therapy, magnet therapy, and ''cupping'' are what drives this idiot,, for he known not what he says,, looks like religious bullshit to me,,,!!! bobD Boy ,this group is just going to hell.Used to be so good to read in here now its just debate,debate,debate.Lets get back to people helping people.Barb : Boy ,this group is just going to hell.Used to be so good to read in here : now its just debate,debate,debate.Lets get back to people helping : people.Barb : I think this particular thread was crossposted too widely to be useful for other than the flamage it ignited. > this guys and idiot,, probably a frikin born again christian all bent outta > shape over eggs that they consider to be humans,, , in their logic,, > menstuation would be illegal!!! what with all the dead eggs women drop each > month,, ....looks like religious bullshit to me,,,!!! > bobD Bob- As a "frikin born again christian" I take much offense to these remarks. Please do not generalize how you think we all might be. Please think before you write. This is a group of encouragement for people all sharing the same struggles with illness- not one to attack others belief systems. NOT the forum for your strong feelings towards christians or religion (which are in my opinion biased and uninformed). Stephanie > > this guys and idiot,, probably a frikin born again christian all bent > outta [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > As a "frikin born again christian" I take much offense to these remarks. do you take as much offence as i take with the religious right wing idiots who are lobbying bush to halt this research and have succeeded??? if people like you are blocking the research that might develop a cure for Ms,, then my comment does not even come close to the OFFENSIVE actrions of your religious friends!!! > Please do not generalize how you think we all might be. Please think before > you write.This is a group of encouragement for people all sharing the same > struggles with illness- not one to attack others belief systems. i did not attack you ,, i attacked ANY religious born again christian who takes it into THEIR own hands to play GOD with our lives,,, are catholics blowing away abortion doctors???? lutherans???? born agains are totally f.cked up,, sorry it offends you,, but tell me what other religion is backing bush to halt stem cells deny womens right to choose etc etc etc etc you take YOUR opinions as a born again,, and apply them to other people's lives,, you deny gays the right to marry cause born agains think its wrong???? born agains christians are imposing their beliefs on everyone else to the point of taking a gun or bomb and blowing people up.. fuckin terrorists , !!! or are those just the Fanatical born again christians??? NOT the > forum for your strong feelings towards christians or religion (which are in > my opinion biased and uninformed). not even close,,,, biased??? i have studies every religion,, i did a critique in university on Genesis for my thesis,, i spent time with born agains i spent time with mormons, lutherans,, catholics, etc etc. i understand more than you think,, but do you???? born agains feel that if your not born again you dont get into heaven??? your not saved??? i know which religiopus group is doing everything in its power to halt stem cell research,, are you a member??? or is it a clone cult??? > Stephanie do you protest at abortion clinics denying people's rights??? does your religion?? offended eh???? take a good look around you,, i protest your religion!!! your religion- the words of it,, offends me and makes me sick and disgusted,, born again christian religion is evil!!!! and thats my opinion,, but i wont kill you guys over it like you do to others!!!!!! blowing away doctors in vancouver!!!! etc defend that bullshit religious act!!!! bobD i am offended by every born again sucker!!!! You may have stepped over the line here Bob. Rob > > > this guys and idiot,, probably a frikin born again christian all bent > > outta [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > i am offended by every born again sucker!!!! my take on stem cells & the use of them.... We (humans) have been given brains to use...should we throw away an opportunity to , perhaps, help ourselves recover from any dreadful disease?...Will we be called to task when & if we arrive at whatever is at the end of this life .. for flubbing what might be something He/She put in our path.??? Please, please--knock off the name calling..it doesn't help .....We are all in this & I know we are all hurting. Florence >>>The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating >>>funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > bobD Perhaps it would be wise to reflect on your own judgmental statement. Fact is, stem cells can only be produced from a fertilized egg, not as you suggest a dead egg. That is the legitimate and ethical debate that is at the center of the religious and scientific concerns. Whether the interpretation, legal or otherwise deems whether a fertilized egg is/or is not a human being, or "just a fetus" is th crux of the issue. The "fetus" is living, dividing tissue, and stem cells must be harvested, thus insuring the death of the fertilized egg/fetus. At the center of research complaints is that the current registry of stem cells was/is limited to the existing pool of stem cells in the U.S. However, to quell debate, even many stem cell experts point out that it is unlikely that diseases in and of themselves will be resolved by stem cells. The particular focus in stem cell research is the regenerative potential that may lead to therapies for certain problems and/or injuries. And that is many years, if not decades from being implemented due to the many known and unknown issues. In the case of Alzheimers, due to the plaque like condition of the various cells, stems cells will probably have no effect. It is not a regeneration of cells that is needed, but an effective removal of the plaque that will solve the Alzheimers puzzle. Chuck stem cells just dont come from fertilized eggs,, they are taken from other sources as well, the fact is that embryonic stem cells are purer and better to use,, more efficient,, bobD > >>>The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating > >>>funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Chuck >The >"fetus" is living, dividing tissue, and stem cells must be harvested, >thus insuring the death of the fertilized egg/fetus. The death of the fetus is assured the moment it hits the garbage pail subsequent to the abortion. I am certain it is not against the will of God to turn death into a fighting chance for life. I do not know of anyone here who is arguing pro-Alzheimer with the stem cell therapy, we are talking multiple sclerosis where stem cell therapy is already proven and being used with some degree of success. See "Craig's Story" at www.mult-sclerosis.org and stop spouting this crap about stem cells requiring decades more research. It just might require decades more to get the cost down and repair the damage already done by the disease if we pay heed to you and your ilk. Meanwhile, people like you keep people like me lying in bed all day with the brief exception of when a home care worker arrives and uses a lift to get me to a commode for a shower. Unless a disease such as pneumonia mercifully takes me first, I will die lying flat on my back, a tube down my throat, unable to communicate except by blinking and hoping someone remembers to roll me over twice a day while you go on one of your pro-whatever marches. You want to reach out and snatch away the only, repeat only, hope that I and all the others with MS have that is close enough for us to grasp. f.ck off. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim > >The > >"fetus" is living, dividing tissue, and stem cells must be harvested, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > *??`?.??.???`?.??.???`?->Jim that was exactly how i feel about this,, ,, i am glad ,that canada passed legislation to protect stem cell research,,, a cure and to REPAIR the ms placque how??? they have already paralyzed rats and then sliced out a small section of spinal chord where the break they made was,, and grafted in a tube and then transplanted in stem cells these stem cells developed the nerve fibres and axions(sp) and that paralyzed rat walked again with a'' spinal stem cell transplant graft!!!!'' repaired the damage!!!! i can imagine the future where not only is there a cure for those about to get MS , but repair for those paralyzed and otherwise screwed up by this disease. that cure is near,, ''regardless of whatever religion you think you are,, you have no right to impose your ideology however right you feel on other people,, denying them and forcing them into suffering is just plain UNchristian!!!''' by your own standards,, bobD >''regardless of whatever religion you think you are,, you have no right to >impose your ideology however right you feel on other people,, denying them >and forcing them into suffering is just plain UNchristian!!!''' by your own >standards,, That poster is a nothing. He lacks the strength of conviction to even post his identity; chuck7701@yahoo.com has never before been used on usenet, according to Google. Spineless at best, a troll at worst. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim >>''regardless of whatever religion you think you are,, you have no right to >>impose your ideology however right you feel on other people,, denying them [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim so you'll be posting your: full name home address home telephone work telephone ???????? you see Jim Carter is a very common name world wide. On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 03:05:48 -0400, Mäck©® <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >so you'll be posting your: >full name [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >you see Jim Carter is a very common name world wide. I posted sufficient information that people may get in touch with me and, if necessary, obtain what you wanted. However, to make things easy for you James M. Carter 6 Welland St. Perth, Ontario Canada K&H 3H7 613-264-0223 When I worked, the telephone number was 613-267-3131. I worked for the Police Department. Now, what is your point? Do you really want every person to post all this information in every message they post? What is your information? __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim >On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 03:05:48 -0400, Mäck©® <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in >alt.support.mult-sclerosis: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim Who is Mäck©®? Donn >Who is Mäck©®? > >Donn Another who thinks the sky will fall in if readily available information gets posted to usenet. He must live in stark terror of the telephone book. Or say freaky things on usenet that he would not say if his identity were known. Just like Tommy. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim >On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 03:05:48 -0400, Mäck©® <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in >alt.support.mult-sclerosis: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim my point? is simple, you are a fool. Anyone who slams Jim Carter is a fool . You must know he is a friend to all of us and much loved. The moment you slammed him you made alot of enemies in the NG. Now scat. SignatureDora Dangerous with Attitude > > >>so you'll be posting your: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > my point? is simple, you are a fool. On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:33:13 -0400, Mäck©® <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: >my point? is simple, you are a fool. There is a light rain falling, but the sky has not yet fallen. You either live in a real bad area or you are paranoid. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim > >''regardless of whatever religion you think you are,, you have no right to > >impose your ideology however right you feel on other people,, denying them [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim I don't have a problem with people not using their real names. I cannot use mine because there is a member of Congress with the same name and I don't want him to be blamed for anything I might say. The name I use on scientific subjects is the pen name I first used to copyright a computer program for the Osborne I 20 years ago. >>The >>"fetus" is living, dividing tissue, and stem cells must be harvested, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim I'm sorry that you have MS, but don't take it out on me or others who are trying to help. My identity will remain as it is, anonymous for good reason. Secondly, it will remain anonymous so people like you don't find people like me to cuss and scream at. Thirdly, it may be the last time I use this moniker, post on these groups, or more likely, just killfile/filter your posts. I have two very close friends suffering from MS, and may be exhibiting MY OWN MS signs, so I understand you're dilemma. Think about the other person before taking the offensive in your unwarranted attacks. I was merely pointing out the underlying scientific, ethical, and for some, the moral issues involved with embryonic stem cell research, not cord cells, to correct BobD in his vitriolic attack against someone else. Yes, I am new to this newsgroup, and have not posted under this name before, but after this tirade against me, why should I stay and put up with a.sholes like you that tell me to FO, when you don't even know me or my story. I read Craig's story as you pointed out, and what you may have missed in the stem cells being used to experimentally treat MS, is that they are autologous. Meaning they were HIS OWN stem cells harvested prior to the experimental treatment. Furthermore, the treatment is highly experimental, and as Craig indicated, fraught with many dangers and a lot of unknowns yet to be resolved. In Craig's case, it may not be MS that gets him in the end, rather, something else as a result of the treatment like cancer. The other stem cell research you mentioned was in the regeneration of spinal nerve cells of a lab rat, which I indicated had more favorable potential. That is far different from the plaque, lesions, and other effects MS has on the human body, where the spinal cord is not cut or severed. They DO NOT appear to be using stem cells derived from cord or embryonic sources to experimentally treat MS now, perhaps they do in some current theoretical attempts. It was my scientific estimation, they will probably not be able to use them for MS for many years, if at all due to the nature of the disease. So before you, and BobD for that matter, start blasting away at others, you might want to get your facts straight. And think about who you are attacking before firing off your verbal cannons of disgust. Chuck PS As far as BobD is concerned, since you both seem to be on the same intolerant side, he demonstrated his ignorance and intolerance to others with his rude anti-this and that diatribe. If he is as educated as he claims, he would be more reasonable in his approach and debate methods. Might I suggest that this NOT be cross-posted any further? I'm not sure which group any given participant in the thread is coming from, but I'm sure that most of the groups on the list aren't interested in reading what is effectively a political flamewar. Beth SignatureThe problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were. --John F. Kennedy our home page: http://www.IsleOfSky.net >Might I suggest that this NOT be cross-posted any further? I'm not sure >which group any given participant in the thread is coming from, And that is the problem and why I hate cross-posting at all. I suggest everyone who posts here include their newsgroup (I do not know which one you are in Beth). I am in the mult-sclerosis group and have said all I want to say. I am going to kill this entire thread, which my software permits. If anyone wants to talk to me then come to my group and post your message there. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim >I have two very close friends suffering from MS, and may be exhibiting >MY OWN MS signs, Given the rarity of the disease this is very unlikely. __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim >>I have two very close friends suffering from MS, and may be exhibiting >>MY OWN MS signs, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim MS is not your worst problem. >Think about the other >person before taking the offensive in your unwarranted attacks. Why should I think about the other person if the other person has given no indication of thinking about me? In such a case an attack is fully warranted because it means he is thinking only of his point of view. Do you think before you type these things? __ *´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim > Fact is, stem cells can only be produced from a fertilized egg, not as > you suggest a dead egg. That is the legitimate and ethical debate that [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Chuck Only embryonic stem cells come from embryos. Your body contains adult stem cells that regularly replace blood, skin and other cells. Adult stem cells are being used for a wide variety of treatments. See http://www.stemcellresearch.org Some links Brain cells: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040503055935.htm Pancreatic cells: http://www.stemcellresearch.org/pr/pr_2001-04-27.htm Heart muscle cells: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/11/021118064844.htm Lung cells: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030901091237.htm nerve cells: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/05/020531072749.htm Within a few years you may be able to go to a dentist have some stem cells taken and then return later to have the bud of a tooth implanted in your mouth that will then grow a new tooth. http://www.betterhumans.com/News/news.aspx?articleID=2004-05-04-4 Check the following link for citations to scientific articles showing the use of adult stem cells to produce pancreatic cells. http://www.stemcellresearch.org/pr/pr_2001-04-27.htm This link discusses Harvard research showing spontaneous regeneration of the pancreas in mice in a study of Type I Diabetes. http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/08.16/01-stemcells.html In this study by the Scripps Research Institute scientists were able to reverse muscle cells and turn them into precursor(stem) cells. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/12/031223062153.htm > >The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating > >funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Are you related to Tom Hennesy? Adult stem cells are producing results in human patients. Embryonic research is unlikely to produce treatments in humans for a decade or more. > The people who are hyping embryonic stem cell research are threating > funds for meaningful research on disorders like Alzheimer's,Type I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > adult stem cells to produce the cells affected by these disorders. > They can produce pancreatic cells and both types of nerve/brain cells. Thank goodness that the whole world don't think like you and GW Bush. http://www.forbes.com/2002/03/04/0304japan.html Will people like you go to Japan for treatment when it is available? Anon |
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