Medical Forum / General / Alternative / January 2005
Barrett on MCS paid by ACSH paid by the Chemical Industry
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Ilena Rose - 05 Dec 2004 23:28 GMT
In my opinion, Coleah Penley Ayers of this group:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm
FINALLY asked the right question about Barrett's and Team's War against me ... in the courtroom (where he has lost 1000%) ... and on the internet, filled with "ragtag posse members" and others from his Healthfraud Listserv.
Coleah asked:
What threat are they to the women with silicone breast implants?
Huge. Enormous. Pervasive.
It's not difficult, as Marcia Angell, accurately said ...to follow the money.
Huge money ...
Dow Chemical/Corning Burson Marsteller ... junkscience.com ... ACSH ... Barrett ... quackwatch.com ... "ragtag posse" ... MCS ...
See: web of deceit here: www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm
Barrett's losing case to me: www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html
Here is why I know that Barrett's Regime and their Web of Deceit is dangerous for the women harmed by breast implants ... women I love beyond measure ... and to whom I have dedicated 9 years of my life telling their stories to the media.
It Barrett's Quack Team has their way ... wonderful scientists and physcians who devote their lives to the study of MCS would lose their licenses and/ or sued into oblivion ...
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html
EXCERPTS:
I believe that a review of Barretts and Polevoys websites also illustrates that they publish their opinions and conclusions on medical issues as "facts" concerning on-going medical controversies such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), an illness that devastates the health of a high number of women with breast implants. As explained in my original declaration, ¶16, Barrett prematurely and, in my opinion, inaccurately, concludes "Multiple chemical sensitivity is not a legitimate diagnosis." (Rosenthal Decl., Exhibit J, p. 6.)
I was shocked that Barrett wrote of the clinical ecologists who believe in MCS, "most of them should have their licenses revoked." (See Ex. I to my original declaration.)
I believe that if Barretts position becomes accepted by the mainstream medical community, it would not only hinder women who are impacted by the effects of this debilitating illness from getting the help they need, it would also aid in the defense of the silicone manufacturers in the billion dollar lawsuits against them that continue today.
Plaintiffs claim that my statements about them are not related to breast implant issues. (Opposition, 2:2-6). Barrett, in ¶15 of his declaration, also declares, "I do not have a highly publicized viewpoint on the subject of breast implants" and then states, "Nor have I been involved in any public controversy about them." However, page 21 of the 24-page report on "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" (MCS), edited by Barrett, and widely disseminated by the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), states "If the medical community accepts the diagnosis and theory of MCS, a wide range of industries could be seriously affected," and then lists the "silicone breast implant" makers as number 6 of the industries seriously affected. (See Exhibit A hereto for a true copy of excerpts of said report - opens PDF file.)
Mark Probert - 06 Dec 2004 13:46 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directorix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message news:t967r0po9d7mmkbdhs0ruq2hr1k10p68ed@4ax.com...
> In my opinion, ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Orac - 07 Dec 2004 02:14 GMT > > > In my opinion That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[Snip]
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2004 15:22 GMT >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. That's only because you are a blind Apologist for Barrett ...
Are you stupid enough to believe he wrote his Chemical Cartel backed piece on MCS for free?
That's absurd!
What is even worse ... is how deceptive he is ... real scientists have to disclose who is paying them to write and "research" ... NOT QUACK BARRETT!
Orac - 08 Dec 2004 01:21 GMT > >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE > >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to disclose who is paying them to write and "research" ... NOT QUACK > BARRETT! Still no evidence posted, just your usual rants.
Try again.
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 13:07 GMT So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?
>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Try again. Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 13:57 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message news:i3vdr095oht1pu340nv18e1fd8b209h00n@4ax.com...
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? No, Orac, and the rest of the real world, does not accept your rants as evidence. You made a claim, now you have to back it up.
Of course, we all expect more rants, not facts, as you never back up your allegations with real proof.
> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE > >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > >Try again. Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:08 GMT > "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING > Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No, Orac, and the rest of the real world, does not accept your rants as > evidence. You made a claim, now you have to back it up. Ilena seems to believe in "argument by assertion." She seems to believe that just asserting that something is true should be adequate "evidence" that it is true. Certainly she behaves as if that is what she believes, because even reasonable requests for evidence in support of her accusations are usually answered with more evidence-free assertions. Either that, or she tries to turn the burden of proof inappropriately back on the person asking for evidence supporting her assertions by telling them to prove that her assertions are not true. Sorry, Ilena, it don't work that way.
> Of course, we all expect more rants, not facts, as you never back up your > allegations with real proof. Indeed.
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:05 GMT > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? Actually, I have no idea whether he did or not. What I DO know is that, despite making repeated accusations that Barrett is a paid "shill" for ACSH, YOU have not proven that he has taken a single red cent from them.
You asserted. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Ilena Rose - 29 Dec 2004 15:06 GMT So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?
>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Try again. Mark Probert - 29 Dec 2004 16:03 GMT > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? Dragging up a post from December 7 to reply to?
Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation, including a copy of every check written.
> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE > >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > >Try again. Ilena Rose - 29 Dec 2004 16:36 GMT >Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation, >including a copy of every check written. I'll get right to it Marla ...
I recommend you standing on your head .. holding your breathe ... and plugging into Coleah's "Pandora's Box" for the wait ...
Be right back atcha!
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 29 Dec 2004 17:00 GMT > >Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation, > >including a copy of every check written. > > I'll get right to it Marla ... > > I recommend you standing on your head .. holding your breathe ... So, you will not provide proof that you are not paid for your activities...
Hmmm....
and what is this connection you have with Maidenform?
Orac - 01 Jan 2005 15:41 GMT > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? Straw man, Ilena. (You do love tearing down straw men, don't you? Perhaps it's because you can't handle the real arguments thrown at you.) I never claimed that. I merely pointed out that YOU have not backed up your insinuations that he was. Until you can, your insinuations are unfounded, unsupported, and nothing more than yet another of your fevered attempts to smear Barrett.
 Signature Orac |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack | of observation." | http://oracknows.blogspot.com
Ilena Rose - 26 Jan 2005 18:12 GMT So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?
>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Try again. Mark Probert - 26 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? That is another of your typical strawman arguments. Orac never said anything like it.
YOU claimed that Barrett is paid. YOU do not provide the merest scintilla of proof, just your bald faced insidiuous allegation.
YOU prove it.
> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE > >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > >Try again. Orac - 27 Jan 2005 01:52 GMT > > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > YOU prove it. Precisely. Ilena made the initial assertion. The burden of proof is on her.
 Signature Orac |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack | of observation." | http://oracknows.blogspot.com
Orac - 27 Jan 2005 01:51 GMT > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski? Straw man. That's not what I said.
What I said is that YOU frequently state that he's a paid shill; yet you have yet to produce any concrete evidence to back up your assertion.
 Signature Orac |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack | of observation." | http://oracknows.blogspot.com
Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2004 15:24 GMT >> >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >[Snip] Barrett is a Shill for ACSH ... he calls it "advisor" ...
Who pays ACSH:
The Junkyard Dogs of Science by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton
http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1998Q4/dogs.html
For the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), the "phthalate issue" (pronounced "THAL ate") is just another "scare as usual"--another media fire needing to be extinguished.
The issue has been simmering for several years, but it reached a flash point in the United States in November 1998 when the environmental group Greenpeace issued a report showing that soft vinyl children's toys contain significant levels of toxic chemicals--up to 41 percent by weight. Greenpeace warned that children may ingest the chemicals, known as phthalates, if they put the toys in their mouths. "When children suck and chew on soft vinyl toys, it is similar to squeezing a sponge. Water comes out of a sponge, just as these toxic softeners can leach out of a toy," explained Joe Di Gangi, the author of the Greenpeace report.
Greenpeace was not alone on the issue. Health authorities in several other countries, including Austria, Denmark and Sweden, had already issued regulations banning phthalates. Similar measures were under consideration, along with warning advisories to parents and requests for retailers to voluntarily recall vinyl toys, in half a dozen other European countries and Canada.
ACSH responded to the "scare" the way it has responded on many similar past occasions, by announcing that it was forming a committee to study the question, headed by former U.S. Surgeon-General Dr. C. Everett Koop.
"Dr. Koop will oversee the blue ribbon committee's work and ensure that the most qualified scientists are recruited to look at the science on phthalates," said ACSH president Elizabeth Whelan. "We know that people want to hear from independent scientists and physicians on important safety issues. The committee's report will provide an authoritative point of view on the safety of phthalates in vinyl products."
Most people who read the news probably concluded that ACSH--described in numerous stories as a "health advocacy group"--was some sort of impartial consumer organization that could be expected to look seriously at the issue. Some reports noted vaguely that ACSH "gets some funding from industry." Overall, however, the media did such a thorough job of obscuring ACSH's identity as an industry front group that Plastics News, an industry trade publication, mistakenly credited ACSH for beginning the "barrage" against the plastics industry over the phthalate issue.
In fact, ACSH is anything but a critic of industry. Since its founding in 1978, it has actively courted industry support, offering itself as an off-the-shelf, available-on-demand source of "sound scientific expertise" in defense of virtually every form and type of industrial pollution known to the 20th century.
Following the Money For public consumption, ACSH calls itself "a science-based, public health group that is directed by a board of 300 leading physicians and scientists . . . providing mainstream, peer reviewed scientific information to American consumers."
When appealing to industry, ACSH uses a different pitch. A revealing reference crops up, for example, in the minutes of a March 16, 1978 meeting of the board of directors of the Manufacturing Chemists' Association (today known as the Chemical Manufacturers Association).
Written in the same month that ACSH began operating, the minutes record an appeal by MCA director William J. Driver, who noted that Whelan had founded "a tax-exempt organization composed of scientists whose viewpoints are more similar to those of business than dissimilar. . . . ACSH is being pinched for funds, but in the interest of independence and credibility will not accept support from any chemical company or any company which could even remotely be concerned with the aims of the council."
Notwithstanding this desire to make ACSH appear independent, Driver added that "Dr. Whelan would be happy to hear from" MCA members who "are interested in the work of the council and know of possible sources of funds."
Shortly after its founding, ACSH abandoned even the appearance of independent funding. In a 1997 interview, Whelan explained that she was already being called a "paid liar for industry," so she figured she might as well go ahead and take industry money without restrictions.
Today, some 40 percent of ACSH's $1.5 million annual budget is supplied directly by industry, including a long list of food, drug and chemical companies that have a vested interest in supporting Whelan's message.
Stacking the Deck ACSH claims to be an "independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt organization" that adds "reason and balance to debates about public health issues." Whatever "balance" means, however, it definitely doesn't mean ideological neutrality. ACSH is unabashedly right-wing and pro-industry. Whelan makes no bones about her political leanings, describing herself as a lifelong conservative who is "more libertarian than Republican." ACSH's board of directors is also heavily stacked with right-wing ideologues.
Take, for example, ACSH board chairman A. Alan Moghissi. A former official with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Moghissi characterizes environmentalism as a belief that "members of endangered species deserve protection and that, because there are billions of humans, humanity does not qualify for protection."
As an "expert on risk assessment," Moghissi appears regularly on rosters of industry-supported "expert panels" that work to undermine environmental regulations. He serves on the advisory board of numerous anti-environmental organizations and right-wing "think tanks," including the American Policy Center's "EPA Watch," the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, and the National Wilderness Institute, a "wise use" anti-environmental organization that calls for abolition of the Endangered Species Act.
In 1990, Moghissi served on a panel created by the far-right Competitive Enterprise Institute, in league with Consumer Alert and the National Consumer Coalition to challenge the EPA's policy requiring asbestos removal from schools and other public buildings.
Moghissi also chairs the Science Advisory Committee of the Environmental Issues Council (EIC), which was established in 1993 by industry trade associations including the Association of American Farm Bureaus, the Association of General Contractors, the National Cattleman's Association, the American Pulpwood Association, the Natural Gas Supply Association, the United States Business and Industrial Council, the Mountain States Legal Foundation (MSLF), as well as the Independent Petroleum Association of America (IPAA).
The purpose of the EIC was to serve as a "new ally against ill-conceived environmental regulation" according to Petroleum Independent, an IPAA trade publication. "The industries represented face common problems," it explained. "The spotted owl might seem to be an active threat only to the timber industry but is in actuality a direct threat to agriculture, mining and virtually any land user. In addition to the Endangered Species Act, all industries are seriously threatened by federal policies regarding wetlands, hazardous waste, and a multitude of other environmental issues."
Other members of the ACSH board of directors include:
Attorney Jerald Hill, a former long-time president of the Landmark Legal Foundation, which appears in the Heritage Foundation's list of conservative "resource organizations." A recipient of funding from right-wing gazillionaire Richard Mellon Scaife, Landmark has a $1 million annual budget and a reputation as a "conservative's American Civil Liberties Union." It has filed lawsuits against labor unions and school desegregation and has fought for legislation that would allow parents to direct public education funding toward their children's private schools. (Whitewater special investigator Kenneth Starr also has ties to Landmark, which has focused heavily in recent years on hyping the Clintongate scandals.) Fredric Steinberg of Mainstreet Health Care, a private HMO in Atlanta, Georgia, who regards Canada's single-payer healthcare system as "the socialized road to medical oblivion." Henry Miller, a former FDA official now at the Hoover Institution, who regularly grinds an ax against what he considers the FDA's "extraordinarily burdensome regulations" regarding genetically engineered foods and new drugs. In 1996, Miller also editorialized against the FDA's proposal to regulate tobacco. "The FDA's anti-tobacco initiative . . . has not been without its own costs to American consumers and taxpayers," he stated, describing FDA commissioner David Kessler as "personally consumed by this single issue." In addition to the board of directors, ACSH also has a 300-member "board of scientific and policy members." As journalist Beatrice Trum Hunter observes, however, "Many of the advisory board members from academia serve in departments of food science and technology, mainly supported by the generosity of commercial food interests."
Other advisors include familiar names from the list of "usual suspects" who appear regularly as scientific experts in a variety of anti-environmental, pro-industry forums: Dennis Avery, Michael Gough, Patrick J. Michaels, Stephen Safe, and S. Fred Singer, to name a few. Several, including Floy Lilley and J. Gordon Edwards, as well as Moghissi, have written articles for 21st Century and Technology, a publication affiliated with lunatic-fringe conspiracy theorist Lyndon LaRouche.
PR Connections The 17-member ACSH board of directors also includes representatives from two PR and advertising firms: Albert Nickel of Lyons Lavey Nickel Swift (their motto: "We change perceptions"), and Lorraine Thelian of Ketchum Communications.
Some 40 percent of ACSH's $1.5 million annual budget is supplied directly by industry, including a long list of food, drug and chemical companies that have a vested interest in supporting Whelan's message.
Thelian is a Ketchum senior partner and director of its Washington, DC office, which handles the bulk of the firm's "environmental PR work" on behalf of clients including Dow Chemical, the Aspirin Foundation of America, Bristol Myers Squibb, the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, the Consumer Aerosol Products Council, the National Pharmaceutical Council, the North American Insulation Manufacturers Association, and the American Industrial Health Council, another industry-funded group that lobbies against what it considers "excessive" regulation of carcinogens. Ketchum boasts that the D.C. office "has dealt with issues ranging from regulation of toxins, global climate change, electricity deregulation, nuclear energy, product and chemical contamination, and agricultural chemicals and Superfund sites, to name but a few."
In 1994, for example, Ketchum's DC office worked on behalf of Dow and the Chlorine Chemistry Council to round up scientists who would challenge the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 1994 report on the health effects of dioxin. Even before the report was released, Ketchum swung into action with a 30-city PR blitz designed to undercut press coverage for the EPA report. "We identified a number of independent scientists and took them on the road" to meet with journalists, academics, political leaders and local health officials, Mark Schannon, an associate director of Ketchum's Washington office, said. "Basically what we're trying to do is assure that industry's voice is heard by people who make policy decisions both here and around the country," Schannon said.
Orac - 08 Dec 2004 01:19 GMT > >> > >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1998Q4/dogs.html No mention of Barrett in the article.
Try again.
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 01:24 GMT Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ... and all their funders.
>> >> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Try again. Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 13:57 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message news:tslcr05kcljmae3uv1jt4jj9lb72aplasp@4ax.com...
> Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ... > and all their funders. Stil no proof he is being paid by them.
> >> >> In my opinion > >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > >Try again. Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 15:10 GMT >Stil no proof he is being paid by them. Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ...
www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm#RagtagPosseLies
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 17:13 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote
> >Stil no proof he is being paid by them. > > Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that > Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ... Why would we want to claim that if we cannot prove it? We use proof to make claims.
However, lack of proof never stopped you from claiming anything. If it suited your ONLY purpose, i.e., smearing those people who take you to task, you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:35 GMT >We use proof to make >claims. Who's the "we" kimosabee?
Lawyers so bad they get complaints by 6 clients for bupkas ... so bad his services were:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html#FailedLawyer
QuackFlacks:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm#QuackFlacksRagtagPosse
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:44 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote
> >We use proof to make > >claims. > > Who's the "we" kimosabee? Orac and myself. And, it is "kemo sabe". Obviously, you rooted for the guys in black hats.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:37 GMT >We use proof to make >claims. Thought you claimed you were independent.
Now it's "we" ...
EX NY Attorneys
Marla Maples?
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:46 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote
> >We use proof to make > >claims. > > Thought you claimed you were independent. > > Now it's "we" ... I was comparing methodologies, you nincomPOOP.
You would not understand as it is too complicated for you.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:39 GMT >you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood. So in Marla's fantasies here ... he claims to know what I would say about Hitler.
Interesting ... he must be on some of the Drugs he's Pushing.
www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:49 GMT "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote
> >you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood. > > So in Marla's fantasies here ... he claims to know what I would say > about Hitler. No, I claim that if it suited your ONLY purpose, i.e., smearing those people who take you to task, you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.
See the difference? Of course you don't.
> Interesting ... he must be on some of the Drugs he's Pushing. Are you accusing me of a felony?
Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:11 GMT > >Stil no proof he is being paid by them. > > Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that > Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ... It's not a "lie" if we don't know whether he did or not. Certainly YOU have not provided any evidence that he did. Consequently, I have to start wondering if it is you who are lying, given that you keep making the same accusations without any evidence, even after it has been pointed out to you again and again that you have failed to provide evidence to back your assertions up.
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:09 GMT > Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ... > and all their funders. You've still presented no evidence that he's a paid "shill," however. You've simply asserted it again without any evidence.
Until you present evidence, your assertions will be treated as they deserve to be treated: as unsubstantiated rants.
[Snip]
 Signature Orac |"I am not interested in trying to compensate | for your amazing lack of observation." | | Orac
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