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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / January 2005

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Barrett on MCS paid by ACSH paid by the Chemical Industry

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Ilena Rose - 05 Dec 2004 23:28 GMT


In my opinion, Coleah Penley Ayers of this group:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

FINALLY asked the right question about Barrett's and Team's
War against me ... in the courtroom (where he has lost 1000%) ... and
on the internet, filled with "ragtag posse members" and others from
his Healthfraud Listserv.

Coleah asked:

What threat are they to the women with silicone breast implants?

Huge.
Enormous.
Pervasive.

It's not difficult, as Marcia Angell, accurately said ...to follow the
money.

Huge money ...

Dow Chemical/Corning
Burson Marsteller ...
junkscience.com ...
ACSH ...
Barrett ...
quackwatch.com ...
"ragtag posse" ...
MCS ...

See: web of deceit here:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

Barrett's losing case to me:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html

Here is why I know that Barrett's Regime and their Web of Deceit is
dangerous for the women harmed by breast implants ... women I love
beyond measure ... and to whom I have dedicated 9 years of my life
telling their stories to the media.

It Barrett's Quack Team has their way ... wonderful scientists and
physcians who devote their lives to the study of MCS would lose their
licenses and/ or sued into oblivion ...

http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/quack-suppdeclaration.html

EXCERPTS:

I believe that a review of Barrett’s and Polevoy’s websites also
illustrates that they publish their opinions and conclusions on
medical issues as "facts" concerning on-going medical controversies
such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), an illness that
devastates the health of a high number of women with breast implants.
As explained in my original declaration, ¶16, Barrett prematurely and,
in my opinion, inaccurately, concludes "‘Multiple chemical
sensitivity’ is not a legitimate diagnosis." (Rosenthal Decl., Exhibit
J, p. 6.)

I was shocked that Barrett wrote of the clinical ecologists who
believe in MCS, "most of them should have their licenses revoked."
(See Ex. I to my original declaration.)

I believe that if Barrett’s position becomes accepted by the
mainstream medical community, it would not only hinder women who are
impacted by the effects of this debilitating illness from getting the
help they need, it would also aid in the defense of the silicone
manufacturers in the billion dollar lawsuits against them that
continue today.

Plaintiffs claim that my statements about them are not related to
breast implant issues. (Opposition, 2:2-6). Barrett, in ¶15 of his
declaration, also declares, "I do not have a ‘highly publicized
viewpoint on the subject of breast implants’" and then states, "Nor
have I been involved in any public controversy about them." However,
page 21 of the 24-page report on "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity"
(MCS), edited by Barrett, and widely disseminated by the American
Council on Science and Health (ACSH), states "If the medical community
accepts the diagnosis and theory of MCS, a wide range of industries
could be seriously affected," and then lists the "silicone breast
implant" makers as number 6 of the industries seriously affected. (See
Exhibit A hereto for a true copy of excerpts of said report - opens
PDF file.)
Mark Probert - 06 Dec 2004 13:46 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directorix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently
DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message
news:t967r0po9d7mmkbdhs0ruq2hr1k10p68ed@4ax.com...

> In my opinion,

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Orac - 07 Dec 2004 02:14 GMT
>  
>
> In my opinion

That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.

[Snip]

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2004 15:22 GMT
>That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
>that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.

That's only because you are a blind Apologist for Barrett ...

Are you stupid enough to believe he wrote his Chemical Cartel backed
piece on MCS for free?

That's absurd!

What is even worse ... is how deceptive he is ... real scientists have
to disclose who is paying them to write and "research" ... NOT QUACK
BARRETT!
Orac - 08 Dec 2004 01:21 GMT
> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> to disclose who is paying them to write and "research" ... NOT QUACK
> BARRETT!

Still no evidence posted, just your usual rants.

Try again.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 13:07 GMT
So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
>> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Try again.
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 13:57 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently
DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message
news:i3vdr095oht1pu340nv18e1fd8b209h00n@4ax.com...
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

No, Orac, and the rest of the real world, does not accept your rants as
evidence. You made a claim, now you have to back it up.

Of course, we all expect more rants, not facts, as you never back up your
allegations with real proof.

> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
> >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> >Try again.
Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:08 GMT
> "Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
> Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> No, Orac, and the rest of the real world, does not accept your rants as
> evidence. You made a claim, now you have to back it up.

Ilena seems to believe in "argument by assertion." She seems to believe
that just asserting that something is true should be adequate "evidence"
that it is true. Certainly she behaves as if that is what she believes,
because even reasonable requests for evidence in support of her
accusations are usually answered with more evidence-free assertions.
Either that, or she tries to turn the burden of proof inappropriately
back on the person asking for evidence supporting her assertions by
telling them to prove that her assertions are not true. Sorry, Ilena, it
don't work that way.

> Of course, we all expect more rants, not facts, as you never back up your
> allegations with real proof.

Indeed.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:05 GMT
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

Actually, I have no idea whether he did or not. What I DO know is that,
despite making repeated accusations that Barrett is a paid "shill" for
ACSH, YOU have not proven that he has taken a single red cent from them.

You asserted. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Ilena Rose - 29 Dec 2004 15:06 GMT
So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
>> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Try again.
Mark Probert - 29 Dec 2004 16:03 GMT
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

Dragging up a post from December 7 to reply to?

Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation,
including a copy of every check written.

> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
> >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> >Try again.
Ilena Rose - 29 Dec 2004 16:36 GMT
>Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation,
>including a copy of every check written.

I'll get right to it Marla ...

I recommend you standing on your head .. holding your breathe ... and
plugging into Coleah's "Pandora's Box" for the wait ...

Be right back atcha!

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 29 Dec 2004 17:00 GMT
> >Please post the detailed accounting records for the Hmantics Foundation,
> >including a copy of every check written.
>
> I'll get right to it Marla ...
>
> I recommend you standing on your head .. holding your breathe ...

So, you will not provide proof that you are not paid for your activities...

Hmmm....

and what is this connection you have with Maidenform?
Orac - 01 Jan 2005 15:41 GMT
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

Straw man, Ilena. (You do love tearing down straw men, don't you?
Perhaps it's because you can't handle the real arguments thrown at you.)
I never claimed that. I merely pointed out that YOU have not backed up
your insinuations that he was. Until you can, your insinuations are
unfounded, unsupported, and nothing more than yet another of your
fevered attempts to smear Barrett.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not
           | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack
           | of observation."
           |                   http://oracknows.blogspot.com

Ilena Rose - 26 Jan 2005 18:12 GMT
So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

>> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
>> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Try again.
Mark Probert - 26 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

That is another of your typical strawman arguments. Orac never said anything
like it.

YOU claimed that Barrett is paid. YOU do not provide the merest scintilla of
proof, just your bald faced insidiuous allegation.

YOU prove it.

> >> >That's all it is, because you certainly haven't presented any EVIDENCE
> >> >that Barrett is a shill for the Chemical Industry, as you claim.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >
> >Try again.
Orac - 27 Jan 2005 01:52 GMT
> > So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> > his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> YOU prove it.

Precisely. Ilena made the initial assertion. The burden of proof is on
her.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not
           | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack
           | of observation."
           |                   http://oracknows.blogspot.com

Orac - 27 Jan 2005 01:51 GMT
> So you believe that Quack Barrett received no remuneration for writing
> his scandalous MCS piece for ACSH, Davey Gorski?

Straw man. That's not what I said.

What I said is that YOU frequently state that he's a paid shill; yet you
have yet to produce any concrete evidence to back up your assertion.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not
           | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack
           | of observation."
           |                   http://oracknows.blogspot.com

Ilena Rose - 07 Dec 2004 15:24 GMT
>>  
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>[Snip]

Barrett is a Shill for ACSH ... he calls it "advisor" ...

Who pays ACSH:

The Junkyard Dogs of Science
by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1998Q4/dogs.html

For the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), the "phthalate
issue" (pronounced "THAL ate") is just another "scare as
usual"--another media fire needing to be extinguished.

The issue has been simmering for several years, but it reached a flash
point in the United States in November 1998 when the environmental
group Greenpeace issued a report showing that soft vinyl children's
toys contain significant levels of toxic chemicals--up to 41 percent
by weight. Greenpeace warned that children may ingest the chemicals,
known as phthalates, if they put the toys in their mouths. "When
children suck and chew on soft vinyl toys, it is similar to squeezing
a sponge. Water comes out of a sponge, just as these toxic softeners
can leach out of a toy," explained Joe Di Gangi, the author of the
Greenpeace report.

Greenpeace was not alone on the issue. Health authorities in several
other countries, including Austria, Denmark and Sweden, had already
issued regulations banning phthalates. Similar measures were under
consideration, along with warning advisories to parents and requests
for retailers to voluntarily recall vinyl toys, in half a dozen other
European countries and Canada.

ACSH responded to the "scare" the way it has responded on many similar
past occasions, by announcing that it was forming a committee to study
the question, headed by former U.S. Surgeon-General Dr. C. Everett
Koop.

"Dr. Koop will oversee the blue ribbon committee's work and ensure
that the most qualified scientists are recruited to look at the
science on phthalates," said ACSH president Elizabeth Whelan. "We know
that people want to hear from independent scientists and physicians on
important safety issues. The committee's report will provide an
authoritative point of view on the safety of phthalates in vinyl
products."

Most people who read the news probably concluded that ACSH--described
in numerous stories as a "health advocacy group"--was some sort of
impartial consumer organization that could be expected to look
seriously at the issue. Some reports noted vaguely that ACSH "gets
some funding from industry." Overall, however, the media did such a
thorough job of obscuring ACSH's identity as an industry front group
that Plastics News, an industry trade publication, mistakenly credited
ACSH for beginning the "barrage" against the plastics industry over
the phthalate issue.

In fact, ACSH is anything but a critic of industry. Since its founding
in 1978, it has actively courted industry support, offering itself as
an off-the-shelf, available-on-demand source of "sound scientific
expertise" in defense of virtually every form and type of industrial
pollution known to the 20th century.

Following the Money
For public consumption, ACSH calls itself "a science-based, public
health group that is directed by a board of 300 leading physicians and
scientists . . . providing mainstream, peer reviewed scientific
information to American consumers."

When appealing to industry, ACSH uses a different pitch. A revealing
reference crops up, for example, in the minutes of a March 16, 1978
meeting of the board of directors of the Manufacturing Chemists'
Association (today known as the Chemical Manufacturers Association).

Written in the same month that ACSH began operating, the minutes
record an appeal by MCA director William J. Driver, who noted that
Whelan had founded "a tax-exempt organization composed of scientists
whose viewpoints are more similar to those of business than
dissimilar. . . . ACSH is being pinched for funds, but in the interest
of independence and credibility will not accept support from any
chemical company or any company which could even remotely be concerned
with the aims of the council."

Notwithstanding this desire to make ACSH appear independent, Driver
added that "Dr. Whelan would be happy to hear from" MCA members who
"are interested in the work of the council and know of possible
sources of funds."

Shortly after its founding, ACSH abandoned even the appearance of
independent funding. In a 1997 interview, Whelan explained that she
was already being called a "paid liar for industry," so she figured
she might as well go ahead and take industry money without
restrictions.

Today, some 40 percent of ACSH's $1.5 million annual budget is
supplied directly by industry, including a long list of food, drug and
chemical companies that have a vested interest in supporting Whelan's
message.

Stacking the Deck
ACSH claims to be an "independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt organization"
that adds "reason and balance to debates about public health issues."
Whatever "balance" means, however, it definitely doesn't mean
ideological neutrality. ACSH is unabashedly right-wing and
pro-industry. Whelan makes no bones about her political leanings,
describing herself as a lifelong conservative who is "more libertarian
than Republican." ACSH's board of directors is also heavily stacked
with right-wing ideologues.

Take, for example, ACSH board chairman A. Alan Moghissi. A former
official with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Moghissi
characterizes environmentalism as a belief that "members of endangered
species deserve protection and that, because there are billions of
humans, humanity does not qualify for protection."

As an "expert on risk assessment," Moghissi appears regularly on
rosters of industry-supported "expert panels" that work to undermine
environmental regulations. He serves on the advisory board of numerous
anti-environmental organizations and right-wing "think tanks,"
including the American Policy Center's "EPA Watch," the Committee for
a Constructive Tomorrow, the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition,
and the National Wilderness Institute, a "wise use" anti-environmental
organization that calls for abolition of the Endangered Species Act.

In 1990, Moghissi served on a panel created by the far-right
Competitive Enterprise Institute, in league with Consumer Alert and
the National Consumer Coalition to challenge the EPA's policy
requiring asbestos removal from schools and other public buildings.

Moghissi also chairs the Science Advisory Committee of the
Environmental Issues Council (EIC), which was established in 1993 by
industry trade associations including the Association of American Farm
Bureaus, the Association of General Contractors, the National
Cattleman's Association, the American Pulpwood Association, the
Natural Gas Supply Association, the United States Business and
Industrial Council, the Mountain States Legal Foundation (MSLF), as
well as the Independent Petroleum Association of America (IPAA).

The purpose of the EIC was to serve as a "new ally against
ill-conceived environmental regulation" according to Petroleum
Independent, an IPAA trade publication. "The industries represented
face common problems," it explained. "The spotted owl might seem to be
an active threat only to the timber industry but is in actuality a
direct threat to agriculture, mining and virtually any land user. In
addition to the Endangered Species Act, all industries are seriously
threatened by federal policies regarding wetlands, hazardous waste,
and a multitude of other environmental issues."

Other members of the ACSH board of directors include:

Attorney Jerald Hill, a former long-time president of the Landmark
Legal Foundation, which appears in the Heritage Foundation's list of
conservative "resource organizations." A recipient of funding from
right-wing gazillionaire Richard Mellon Scaife, Landmark has a $1
million annual budget and a reputation as a "conservative's American
Civil Liberties Union." It has filed lawsuits against labor unions and
school desegregation and has fought for legislation that would allow
parents to direct public education funding toward their children's
private schools. (Whitewater special investigator Kenneth Starr also
has ties to Landmark, which has focused heavily in recent years on
hyping the Clintongate scandals.)
Fredric Steinberg of Mainstreet Health Care, a private HMO in Atlanta,
Georgia, who regards Canada's single-payer healthcare system as "the
socialized road to medical oblivion."
Henry Miller, a former FDA official now at the Hoover Institution, who
regularly grinds an ax against what he considers the FDA's
"extraordinarily burdensome regulations" regarding genetically
engineered foods and new drugs. In 1996, Miller also editorialized
against the FDA's proposal to regulate tobacco. "The FDA's
anti-tobacco initiative . . . has not been without its own costs to
American consumers and taxpayers," he stated, describing FDA
commissioner David Kessler as "personally consumed by this single
issue."
In addition to the board of directors, ACSH also has a 300-member
"board of scientific and policy members." As journalist Beatrice Trum
Hunter observes, however, "Many of the advisory board members from
academia serve in departments of food science and technology, mainly
supported by the generosity of commercial food interests."

Other advisors include familiar names from the list of "usual
suspects" who appear regularly as scientific experts in a variety of
anti-environmental, pro-industry forums: Dennis Avery, Michael Gough,
Patrick J. Michaels, Stephen Safe, and S. Fred Singer, to name a few.
Several, including Floy Lilley and J. Gordon Edwards, as well as
Moghissi, have written articles for 21st Century and Technology, a
publication affiliated with lunatic-fringe conspiracy theorist Lyndon
LaRouche.

PR Connections
The 17-member ACSH board of directors also includes representatives
from two PR and advertising firms: Albert Nickel of Lyons Lavey Nickel
Swift (their motto: "We change perceptions"), and Lorraine Thelian of
Ketchum Communications.



Some 40 percent of ACSH's
$1.5 million annual budget
is supplied directly by industry,
including a long list of food, drug
and chemical companies that
have a vested interest in
supporting Whelan's message.



Thelian is a Ketchum senior partner and director of its Washington, DC
office, which handles the bulk of the firm's "environmental PR work"
on behalf of clients including Dow Chemical, the Aspirin Foundation of
America, Bristol Myers Squibb, the American Automobile Manufacturers
Association, the Consumer Aerosol Products Council, the National
Pharmaceutical Council, the North American Insulation Manufacturers
Association, and the American Industrial Health Council, another
industry-funded group that lobbies against what it considers
"excessive" regulation of carcinogens. Ketchum boasts that the D.C.
office "has dealt with issues ranging from regulation of toxins,
global climate change, electricity deregulation, nuclear energy,
product and chemical contamination, and agricultural chemicals and
Superfund sites, to name but a few."

In 1994, for example, Ketchum's DC office worked on behalf of Dow and
the Chlorine Chemistry Council to round up scientists who would
challenge the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's 1994 report on
the health effects of dioxin. Even before the report was released,
Ketchum swung into action with a 30-city PR blitz designed to undercut
press coverage for the EPA report. "We identified a number of
independent scientists and took them on the road" to meet with
journalists, academics, political leaders and local health officials,
Mark Schannon, an associate director of Ketchum's Washington office,
said. "Basically what we're trying to do is assure that industry's
voice is heard by people who make policy decisions both here and
around the country," Schannon said.
Orac - 08 Dec 2004 01:19 GMT
> >>  
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1998Q4/dogs.html

No mention of Barrett in the article.

Try again.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 01:24 GMT
Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ...
and all their funders.

>> >>  
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Try again.
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 13:57 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-Licensed, and apparently
DE-funct Humantics Foundation, wrote in message
news:tslcr05kcljmae3uv1jt4jj9lb72aplasp@4ax.com...

> Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ...
> and all their funders.

Stil no proof he is being paid by them.

> >> >> In my opinion
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> >
> >Try again.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 15:10 GMT
>Stil no proof he is being paid by them.

Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that
Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ...

www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm#RagtagPosseLies
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 17:13 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently
DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote

> >Stil no proof he is being paid by them.
>
> Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that
> Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ...

Why would we want to claim that if we cannot prove it? We use proof to make
claims.

However, lack of proof never stopped you from claiming anything. If it
suited your ONLY purpose, i.e., smearing those people who take you to task,
you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:35 GMT
>We use proof to make
>claims.

Who's the "we" kimosabee?

Lawyers so bad they get complaints by 6 clients for bupkas ... so bad
his services were:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html#FailedLawyer

QuackFlacks:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm#QuackFlacksRagtagPosse
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:44 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently
DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote

> >We use proof to make
> >claims.
>
> Who's the "we" kimosabee?

Orac and myself. And, it is "kemo sabe". Obviously, you rooted for the guys
in black hats.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:37 GMT
>We use proof to make
>claims.

Thought you claimed you were independent.

Now it's "we" ...

EX NY Attorneys

Marla Maples?

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:46 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently
DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote

> >We use proof to make
> >claims.
>
> Thought you claimed you were independent.
>
> Now it's "we" ...

I was comparing methodologies, you nincomPOOP.

You would not understand as it is too complicated for you.
Ilena Rose - 08 Dec 2004 18:39 GMT
>you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.

So in Marla's fantasies here ... he claims to know what I would say
about Hitler.

Interesting ... he must be on some of the Drugs he's Pushing.

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 08 Dec 2004 22:49 GMT
"Ilena Rose" <ilena@san.rr.com> in her official capacity as the DOMINATING
Directrix of the FDA DE-listed, San Diego DE-licensed, and apparently
DEFUNCT Humantics foundation, wrote from her hideaway in Costa Rica, wrote

> >you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.
>
> So in Marla's fantasies here ... he claims to know what I would say
> about Hitler.

No, I claim that if it suited your ONLY purpose, i.e., smearing those people
who take you to task, you would claim that Hitler was just mis-understood.

See the difference? Of course you don't.

> Interesting ... he must be on some of the Drugs he's Pushing.

Are you accusing me of a felony?
Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:11 GMT
> >Stil no proof he is being paid by them.
>
> Fine Marla ... you and Davey can continue to claim the lie that
> Barrett accepted no remuneration for writing his lies about MCS ...

It's not a "lie" if we don't know whether he did or not. Certainly YOU
have not provided any evidence that he did. Consequently, I have to
start wondering if it is you who are lying, given that you keep making
the same accusations without any evidence, even after it has been
pointed out to you again and again that you have failed to provide
evidence to back your assertions up.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

Orac - 09 Dec 2004 01:09 GMT
> Barrett is an "advisor" and has been decades interlaced with ACSH ...
> and all their funders.

You've still presented no evidence that he's a paid "shill," however.
You've simply asserted it again without any evidence.

Until you present evidence, your assertions will be treated as they
deserve to be treated: as unsubstantiated rants.

[Snip]

Signature

Orac        |"I am not interested in trying to compensate
           | for your amazing lack of observation."
           |
           |                              Orac

 
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