 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2003MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole
This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and the same things are said over and over again. Selling is NOT a sin. EVERYTHING we use in life is sold by somebody. MANY MLM people first used the product and got results, therefore they are eager to help others, and make a living at the same time. Nothing wrong about that whatsoever. The debunkers get their shorts in a wad over nothing. Sad they have so much hatred. Jan > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and the > same [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Sad they have so much hatred. Sad that you are so eager to defend MLM scammers who take advantage of the gullible hawking questionable or downright bogus "remedies."  SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and the > > same [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Sad that you are so eager to defend MLM scammers who take advantage of > the gullible hawking questionable or downright bogus "remedies." Not to mention them being one of the major generators of spam. Peter Moran >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole >From: "Peter Moran" moringa@gil.com.au [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> Sad that you are so eager to defend MLM scammers who take advantage of >> the gullible hawking questionable or downright bogus "remedies." The same ole, same ole. The MLMer's that I know are fine honest people who first used the product with very good results. They are neither scammers and their customers aren't gullible and no one is hawking anything and the product is not bogus. So this same ole, same ole shows nothing but hatred towards those you don't even know. >Not to mention them being one of the major generators of spam. > >Peter Moran Point made!! You both sound like Quack Barrett, who states no naturopath can be trusted. And yet, you see no coverups, no fraud, and no lies, when they have been proven. So much for both opinions. So much for the behavior and hatred coming from doctors. Jan > >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole > >From: "Peter Moran" moringa@gil.com.au [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > very good results. They are neither scammers and their customers aren't > gullible and no one is hawking anything and the product is not bogus. Really? Name one. I'm sure they won't mind the publicity in this newsgroup for their "business." > So this same ole, same ole shows nothing but hatred towards those you don't > even know. Not hatred. Just healthy skepticism. If something sounds too good to be true (as most MLM's and their products do), it probably is too good to be true. > >Not to mention them being one of the major generators of spam. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And yet, you see no coverups, no fraud, and no lies, when they have been > proven. Logical fallacies used: 1. Ad hominem 2. Straw man > So much for both opinions. > > So much for the behavior and hatred coming from doctors. Again, no hatred, just a healthy skepticism for extraordinary claims. SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" > > >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole > > >From: "Peter Moran" moringa@gil.com.au [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > true (as most MLM's and their products do), it probably is too good to > be true. And how would you recognize one that is true? > > >Not to mention them being one of the major generators of spam. > > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Again, no hatred, just a healthy skepticism for extraordinary claims. > > > So this same ole, same ole shows nothing but hatred towards those you > don't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And how would you recognize one that is true? If the person selling it could produce good scientific evidence from well-designed clinical trials showing that his claim for his remedy at least has some good evidence to back it up. Note: This is almost NEVER the case with remedies sold by MLM scammers. SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and > the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Peter Moran Spam? That term gets tossed around an awful lot here. What exactly IS spam? > > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and > > the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Spam? That term gets tossed around an awful lot here. What exactly IS spam? Junk email. Peter Moran > > > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, > and [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Junk email. It's also commonly used to describe commercial advertisements on Usenet, although it has now been expanded to mean any excessively crossposted or multiposted article: http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1 SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" > > > > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, > > and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > multiposted article: > http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1 That's what I thought. > > > > > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects > here, [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > That's what I thought. A first! > It's also commonly used to describe commercial advertisements > on Usenet, although it has now been expanded to mean any > excessively crossposted or multiposted article: That should be qualified to mean commercial advertisements posted to Usenet discussion newsgroups. There are Usenet newsgroups which specifically allow the postings of ads. misc.health.alternative is not one of them. > > It's also commonly used to describe commercial advertisements > > on Usenet, although it has now been expanded to mean any [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > newsgroups which specifically allow the postings of ads. > misc.health.alternative is not one of them. Didn't I just say that originally the word "spam" WAS qualified to mean commercial advertisements? My entire point was that the commonly accepted meaning of "spam" on Usenet has been expanded from that original meaning to include pretty much all excessively crossposted or multiposted articles. This is different from e-mail, where the term "spam" is pretty much completely restricted to commercial advertisements sent by e-mail. SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" Hi Dave from Lowlife! How's the ginseng business these days? > > > > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and > > the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Spam? That term gets tossed around an awful lot here. What exactly IS spam? >> > Selling is NOT a sin. Depends on what it is you're selling and how it's being sold. >> > EVERYTHING we use in life is sold by somebody. No. But that's a red herring, anyway. >> > MANY MLM people first used the product and got results, therefore they are >> > eager to help others, and make a living at the same time. In virtually all cases, you can find an equivalent non-MLM product that works as well or better, costs less, and doesn't have the outrageously negative social consequences associated with its marketing. If someone simply wants to 'make a living' from selling products, they will have an enormously greater chance of success via a traditional commercial model. Only those who pursue the slimy recruitment aspects of the MLM pyramid stand to prosper in any sustainable manner, but they trade their souls in the process. >> > Nothing wrong about that whatsoever. Everything is wrong about MLM marketing models. It's a sucker's game with sand as its foundation. >> > The debunkers get their shorts in a wad over nothing. Empty words. I can give you facts and numbers behind the abuses and empty dreams promoted by MLM schemes. MLM supporters are largely full of emotional outbursts and hand waving -- not much different really than the tactics used at MLM recruitment functions. >> > Sad they have so much hatred. Hatred? When you see gullible people being duped, and you spend time warning people with facts about MLM, this shows care and concern for others, not hatred. Your statements are largely non-factual, including this last doozey. PT > >> > MANY MLM people first used the product and got results, therefore they > >> > are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > stand to prosper in any sustainable manner, but they trade their souls > in the process. And, then, they only profit if they found the MLM business or get into it early on, before the pyramid scheme starts to fall apart. [Snip] SignatureOrac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole >From: Paige Turner pturner@nospam.leoville.org [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Depends on what it is you're selling and how it's being sold. Nope. > > EVERYTHING we use in life is sold by somebody. > >No. But that's a red herring, anyway Run out of things to say, did ya?? >> MANY MLM people first used the product and got results, therefore they are >>> > eager to help others, and make a living at the same time. >In virtually all cases, you can find an equivalent non-MLM product >that works as well or better, costs less, and doesn't have the >outrageously negative social consequences associated with its >marketing. Well, I guess some people don't have time to search. >If someone simply wants to 'make a living' from selling >products, they will have an enormously greater chance of success via a >traditional commercial model. *In your opinion* Doesn't make MLMer's scumbags as is said here. >Only those who pursue the slimy recruitment aspects of the MLM pyramid >stand to prosper in any sustainable manner, but they trade their souls >in the process. Oh really? Your experience is much different than mine. >> > Nothing wrong about that whatsoever. >Everything is wrong about MLM PLONK! >>>> > Selling is NOT a sin. >> >>Depends on what it is you're selling and how it's being sold. > >Nope. Yup. Here are just a few examples: - Deceptive marketing - Harmful addictive drugs - Defective or Dangerous products - Selling with intent to defraud - Ponzi Rackets - Illegal Pyramids - Offshore Tax Havens - Patent and Trademark infringement Need more? Call this stuff "sin" or call it illegal and immoral. It's bad stuff no matter what you call it. Indeed, the ethics of commerce depends entirely on what you're selling, and how you are selling it. Granted, most of this does not apply to MLM (except in some cases of deception and iilegal pyramids), but you didn't qualify your statement. >> > EVERYTHING we use in life is sold by somebody. >> >>No. But that's a red herring, anyway > >Run out of things to say, did ya?? You don't know me very well. Let's see -- I breathe air that wasn't "sold by somebody." I drink local artesian spring water that wasn't "sold by somebody." I eat organic food grown in my garden from seeds harvested by me (and which many of the original seeds were given to me by gardener neighbors.) Want more? >>> MANY MLM people first used the product and got results, therefore they are >>>> > eager to help others, and make a living at the same time. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Well, I guess some people don't have time to search. As I've said, if people want to pay ridiculously inflated prices for stuff they could easily find and purchase elsewhere, that's their business. Those people fit Armstrong's Alternative Definition of the word "marketing," which is: "The subtle art of manipulation and deception in selling crap to idiots." >>If someone simply wants to 'make a living' from selling >>products, they will have an enormously greater chance of success via a >>traditional commercial model. > >*In your opinion* No, proven and documented fact. The FTC has a massive collection of such comparative statistics. But I guess you're not interested in sticking around to hear about "facts." They're sooo booring. >Doesn't make MLMer's scumbags as is said here. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Oh really? Your experience is much different than mine. How does it make you feel? I mean, when you're up there giving that wonderful MLM pep talk to gullible downline prospects -- fully knowing that the vast majority (>98%) of these will never turn a profit or create any kind of sustainable business for themselves? (FTC statistics). How does it feel, knowing that the goods (or services) you're selling are grossly and artificially overpriced? How do you feel turning the sacred trust of friends and family into "business prospects" for your overpriced goods? Shame on you. >>> > Nothing wrong about that whatsoever. > >>Everything is wrong about MLM > >PLONK! Plonk? Does that mean I've been kill-filed? Yeah, that's it -- when someone challenges you with real facts and real statistics, run and hide! How pathetic, and how appropriately representative of the MLM lifestyle and mindset. PT >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole >From: Paige Turner pturner@nospam.leoville.org [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >- Offshore Tax Havens >- Patent and Trademark infringement The same could be said for anyone other than MLMer's which is the topic. >Need more? No thanks. >Call this stuff "sin" or call it illegal and immoral. That's the norm for debunkers, they are famous for calling names. Like I said, same ole, same ole, all being repeated. >Indeed, the ethics of commerce >depends entirely on what you're selling, and how you are selling it. Which doesn't apply to MLMers. >Granted, most of this does not apply to MLM (except in some cases of >deception and iilegal pyramids), but you didn't qualify your >statement. Sure, I did. See the title. >> > EVERYTHING we use in life is sold by somebody. >>> >>>No. But that's a red herring, anyway >> >>Run out of things to say, did ya?? >You don't know me very well. True, I do well know tricks of the debunkers. <snip> >>Doesn't make MLMer's scumbags as is said here. <snip> >Yeah, that's it -- when someone challenges you with real facts and >real statistics, run and hide! LOLOLOL. That's Happy Dog's line. Still here after almost four years. YOU?? Jan >>Indeed, the ethics of commerce >>depends entirely on what you're selling, and how you are selling it. > >Which doesn't apply to MLMers. The ethics of commerce doesn't apply to MLM'ers? Seriously? MLM sells wildly overpriced goods using highly questionable marketing techniques, often attracting the most gullible elements of society (the sick, the unemployed...). If your conscious isn't bothering you, fine. You're a perfect spokesperson for MLM. Welcome. >True, I do well know tricks of the debunkers. Good for you. So let's put aside our "feelings" and discuss the numerous sources of objective data which show that MLM is among the most inefficient business models known, has (by far) the highest personal failure rate of any business model ever studied, is quite often by its own innate principles harmful and/or disruptive to human relationships, is often manipulative and unforthright in its claims, and in many cases has been found to be an illegal pyramid scheme. And much more... Or maybe since you don't feel that any of this applies to you personally that MLM must be a good and positive thing overall? (in which case we can also discuss the psychology of denial.) >>Yeah, that's it -- when someone challenges you with real facts and >>real statistics, run and hide! > >LOLOLOL. Again, if you want to discuss the statistical data available (FTC, etc..) about MLM, I'll be happy to spend the time. It's not a pretty picture, but I'm guessing that doesn't bother you. Tell me, besides the pie-in-the-sky MLM down-line recruitment scheme, what product is it you're selling via MLM? Just curious. Paige snip > So let's put aside our "feelings" and discuss the numerous sources of > objective data which show that MLM is among the most inefficient [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > personally that MLM must be a good and positive thing overall? (in > which case we can also discuss the psychology of denial.) Jan is in denial? You have got to be kidding! Not! She is the Cleopatra of m.h.a. > >>Yeah, that's it -- when someone challenges you with real facts and > >>real statistics, run and hide! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Tell me, besides the pie-in-the-sky MLM down-line recruitment scheme, > what product is it you're selling via MLM? Just curious. Jan sells bogus ideas. Just check her teeth. >From: Paige Turner pturner@nospam.leoville.org >Date: 9/19/2003 4:52 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <5vslmv8fslfca6p40hj2dnc4ice980867a@4ax.com> <snip> >Tell me, besides the pie-in-the-sky MLM down-line recruitment scheme, >what product is it you're selling via MLM? Just curious. > >Paige I sell nothing. I am retired after 38 years of owning two daycare centers. I have no desire to sell anything. If you had been here very long, you would have known that, but your response is typical. This has all been said before, it's the same ole same ole. This ng has proclaimed all MLMer's are scumbags, they aren't. The shoot um at dwan is a debunker trait. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=MLM+misc+health+ alternative+2000&btnG=Google+Search Jan > >From: Paige Turner pturner@nospam.leoville.org > >Date: 9/19/2003 4:52 AM Pacific Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > The shoot um at dwan is a debunker trait. Dawn? Why waste a good sunrise? > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=MLM+misc+health+ > alternative+2000&btnG=Google+Search > > Jan >I sell nothing. I am retired after 38 years of owning two daycare centers. I >have no desire to sell anything. > >If you had been here very long, you would have known that, but your response is >typical. Ah, OK Jan. Fair enough. But that doesn't change the fact that MLM, while barely legal, represents one of the unhealthiest, most lopsided and failure-prone business models ever devised by a free-market. You and some others may think it's "OK" but in fact the statistics tell another story. I can share facts with you, if you're able to accept the truth. Otherwise, I guess it's just more of the same ad hominem diatribe. >This ng has proclaimed all MLMer's are scumbags, they aren't. I think most people get into MLM without really understanding the card-house that it is. They are not to blame -- they are victims of their own naiveté and gullibility. I will say that many of the business leaders who originally form a MLM operation are indeed scumbags (actually, that's too nice a term for them...) for they know the statistics, they know that 98% or more of the people who invest in their pipe-dream are simply "paying the price of admission to a business they will soon abandon." Many of the MLM executives are on their 3rd or 4th MLM start-up -- see, the vast majority of MLM companies don't last more than a few years. The scumbags are those who finally realize the true and perverse nature of the MLM game, yet chose to stay in it for monetary gain -- on the backs of countless failed entrepreneurs who are lured into a dream that they can never achieve. So, Jan, while you seem sincere in your support of MLM, I'm afraid the facts are clear -- it's not a healthy business model. I will say that I've been reading your posts on Ritalin and will agree with many of your points. I've read a bit on the subject and believe that this drug is grossly over-prescribed and/or mis-prescribed. I think that in many cases of childhood behavioral issues, we need look no farther than the parents. Anyway, I'll stop picking on you -- but I really think if you would simply read some of the key FTC (et al) data on MLMs, you wouldn't maintain your positive opinions. Best wishes, PT >Subject: Re: MLM, Same Ole, Same Ole >From: Paige Turner pturner@nospam.leoville.org [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >Best wishes, >PT The MLMer's I know do indeed sell a health product. It helps many conditions, I talked with people who have used them. Best to you also. Jan >The MLMer's I know do indeed sell a health product. It helps many conditions, I >talked with people who have used them. No arguments there, Jan. Some MLMer's indeed sell health products that work. What they won't tell you is that, in virtually all cases, equivalent or better products are available without the outrageous and (IMO) unethical MLM "upline" mark-up's -- often doubling, even tripling, the nominal market value of a product. PT > This rolls around ever so often, just like the over subjects here, and the same > things are said over and over again. > > Selling is NOT a sin. You support prostitution? |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2010 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.