Medical Forum / General / Alternative / January 2010
NZ Gardasil death
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john - 10 Jan 2010 16:56 GMT http://beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?1583-Jasmine-Renata Open Letter to Dr Stewart Jessamine, Medsafe. Saturday, 9 January, 2009.
Dear Dr Jessamine,
I have been working with Rhonda Renata since October, regarding her daughter's death following the Gardasil vaccination, and have permission to discuss her death, and for all information I have to be made public. This letter has been written with Rhonda, and all attachments are attached as requested by Rhonda. I also have Rhonda's permission to discuss other aspects of this case on my website, now that Rhonda has gone public through the Herald today: Reference: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10619244 9 January 2010.
CSL, which markets Gardasil in New Zealand, said it was unlikely the investigations would find the vaccine caused Jasmine's death. The Ministry of Health said it was important not to jump to conclusions about Jasmine's death until more information was available. "Information from immunisation programmes overseas has not raised any concerns over the safety of this vaccine, in which over 44 million doses have been distributed worldwide," said Dr Stewart Jessamine, group manager of the ministry's medicines safety authority Medsafe. Reference: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10614748 December 11, 2009.
CARM director Michael Tatley yesterday told the Herald an investigation was under way, but details of the girl's death were "really scant stuff". The matter was still before the coroner. The girl is believed to have died in the past couple of months.
Her death had come within six months of receiving the Gardasil vaccination, but it was not known if she had completed the course - generally three shots administered six weeks apart.
Before I discuss specific issues which concern me, please find attached Jasmine's medical recordsJas medical records.pdf; two documents which were sent to Dr Michael Tatley's office by Rhonda Renata on the 21th November, 2009, (Report card Jasmine Renata HPV Reporting card.pdf , and supplementary documents Jasmine Renata.pdf ) acknowledged by Janelle Ashton on 23.11.2009, and assigned the CARM report number, 087237. Please also find attached the provisional report after autopsy Provisional postmortem.pdf ; ESR letter 17th Novmber 2009 ESR 17 Nov 2009.pdf , and please note that this was all that has been received by the parents.
· Can you read the provisional report?
· Do you think that this "information" is appropriate for parents?
· Shouldn't parents in Rhonda's position, receive an outline of what will be done; how, and in what time frame?
Jasmine died on 22nd September 2009.
· Do you think it reasonable that Jasmine's parents still have no autopsy results?
As you will see, all three batch numbers for Jasmine's Gardasil vaccines were supplied on the report card. Furthermore, the supplementary document provided, gave very detailed information from the medical records, and from Jasmine's mother Rhonda.
· Why then, on December 11, 2009, did Michael Tatley inform the Herald that he didn't know if she had completed the series, and that information was really scant stuff?
· How can the public have any confidence in CARM when they deny the existence of the very information they request that a parent send to them?
Here are what I consider to be key issues which the Ministry must address:
The fact that at least THREE teenage girls died in their sleep between 1 September and 30 November 2009. These are only the ones we know about. One of those, Jasmine Renata, is confirmed as receiving the full Gardasil series before she died.
· What about Jaylene Pai, and the other Jasmine, in Napier, who died shortly before Jasmine Renata?
· What about any others, whose parents think that their child is the only one who has died in her sleep?
There is also concern in this country and overseas, about seizures following Gardasil. I note from letters to the editor, that prominent medical people in New Zealand, who consider themselves expert in this area, have discounted USA deaths of young girls who have died while driving, following the receipt of Gardasil. On the face of it, a car crash looks highly improbable doesn't it.
· However, do those people realise that FDA has initiated an investigation of those car crashes on the basis that the girls driving, had developed seizures after Gardasil, and in some cases, the first seizure, appeared to coincide with them driving a car?
It's no more improbable, than the clusters of cases of broken limbs in recipients of Menomune A in 1987, in children who had developed ataxia after receipt of that vaccine. Losing your ability to walk proper after a vaccine, could quite feasibly result in a broken arm. That "concept" should not be dismissed, just because other children break their arms.
· Are you aware also, of data from VAERS and elsewhere, showing that girls given Gardasil in the premenstrual phase, have more serious reactions, and that their reactions get worse on a monthly basis, just before their periods?
New Zealand has what you call the National Immunisation Register (NIR). At the moment, this register is used as a vaccine enforcement tool, it's "purpose" being to mop up and vaccinate by any means possible, as many children as possible.
But in the NIR, you have a tool which could potentially be very useful as a "flag".
Jasmine, Jasmine and Jai, should be on the NIR. In fact, all the children who have received Gardasil, will be on the NIR, and conversely, most of the children who HAVE NOT received Gardasil, should be on the NIR.
Comparison of these two groups could be instructive.
If you were able to run a computer analysis on the children who have had Gardasil, how many would you find who had mysteriously died in their sleep? You don't know, because you can't.
How many young girls might you find, who now have a diagnosis of CFS after Gardasil? You don't know, because you can't.
How many young girls might you find who have recently been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder? You don't know, because you can't.
Why? Because NIR is used as an enforcement tool, not an efficient modality of comparison, to see whether or not health events after vaccination are only happening in one group.
I realise that the NIR's use is however, somewhat limited, because many adolescents who have not had Gardasil, will have had DT and we know from Tsumiyama Tsumiyama 09 repeat vax autoimmunity.pdf and Toplak Toplak 08 influenza vax autoimmune.pdf that any vaccine has the potential to cause autoimmunity (and death). Siegrist Siegrist 07 ad event mistaken HPV.pdf should also be taken seriously, but . how are you going to do that?
You could use NIR, if you had the "will" to do so.
BUT. in order to assess any vaccine reaction at whatever age, or autoimmunity causation properly, you would need a totally unvaccinated cohort.
Right now, this country has a significant "totally unvaccinated-by-choice " population, which could form an ideal control group to show you what is normal in children who never have vaccines. However these parents and children mostly stay out of sight, and well away from the medical profession. Many, if not most of them, will not be on the NIR, because the actions of nurses turning up and browbeating the few that are on the NIR. The stories of intimidation, have spread right throughout the non-vaccinating grapevine.
Their reluctance to deal with the NIR is reinforced by hospital staff/ medical professionals and particularly IMAC's extremely rude and punitive approach to non-vaccinating parents in the last few years.
I suggest that it's time you initiate a reform of medical attitudes in this country, and convince parents who don't vaccinate their children at all, that their children can be studied as a legitimate control group, if they are not pressured to vaccinate, or character assassinated for not doing so.
However, what to me is the most important aspect of Gardasil, is the aluminium adjuvant. See Shaw Shaw 09 aluminium.pdf attached. Dr Shaw sent me his 2006 paper , but it's in two parts and is a total of 10 mb. What makes this aluminium adjuvant even more serious, in my mind, is that while it's clear that injected aluminium has direct access to neuronal tissue, Gardasil also contains Polysorbate 80, which is used as a coating for certain types of brain drugs, because polysorbate easily pulls those drugs through the blood brain barrier Kreuter 02 polysorbate bbb drugs.pdf .
· Question. Does Polysorbate 80 increase the amount of aluminium in a Gardasil recipient's brain?
In Jasmine's case, you will see that some evolving symptoms in her last three months, are compatible with motor-neuron impairment in the brain. More worryingly, her ability to make decisions, and "work things out" markedly deteriorated in the last three months of her life.
Dr Shaw suggested that at autopsy, destruction of motor neurons should be looked for in brain samples, and the Morin stain for Aluminium should be used to ascertain it's presence in the brain.
On enquiry, it was found that New Zealand's autopsy protocols would not accommodate either.
Which raises another question.
· How can we have any confidence in a coroner's finding, when the autopsy doesn't contain tests (which a doctor knowledgeable about the action of aluminium vaccine adjuvants in animals), considers crucial, in order to solve Jasmine's case?
Jasmine's mother, Rhonda, is right to state that the medical profession in this country will be unlikely to come up with any explanations. Not just because the autopsy process is basic in the extreme, but because should those tests come back positive for aluminium, given the medical profession's track record on vaccine reactions so far, it's presence in the brain would be guaranteed to be blamed on everything else . except the vaccine.
I have been contacted by many people who have had serious reactions after Gardasil.
The following are common to all their stories:
· Doctors are totally dismissive that there is any possible connection with any reaction to Gardasil.
· Doctors refused to report the reaction.
· Doctors have nothing to offer with regard to treatment.
All of these people are now undertaking alternative medicine protocols, because there is nothing else available to them.
Some are having some success, and others are having none.
What you have right now, in New Zealand, is a similar situation as exists in UK, European Union, Canada, USA and Australia. There are significant numbers of girls, all showing very similar patterns relating to events following Gardasil, and in nearly every case, any relationship with the Gardasil vaccine is refuted right from the moment the child, or parent opens their mouths. As a result of the medical professions consistently refusal to investigate these cases individually, and appropriately, many organisations are being set up, and websites opened to collect the data which the medical profession will not.
You may ask:
· Why have I stayed silent about Jasmine so far?
The first reason what that it was agreed that Rhonda would be the first to go public in her own time. The second reason was that we wanted to see whether or not the New Zealand medical and governmental system could competently deal with one very well laid out complaint to CARM, without media involvement. This is a case about which John Key, Tony Ryall, Tariana Turia, and many others have known about, from the start.
The evidence of the last few months shows that the ability of the medical profession to effectively address vaccine reactions with integrity and honesty, is zero. In frustration, Rhonda on her own initiative, has decided to go public, and I will now be suggesting to everyone else, that if they have the energy and emotional ability to cope with the crap that will be thrown their way by the medical profession for doing so, that their first port of call should be the media, not the medical profession.
Sincerely,
Hilary Butler.
Peter Moran - 10 Jan 2010 20:23 GMT > http://beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?1583-Jasmine-Renata > Open Letter to Dr Stewart Jessamine, [quoted text clipped - 253 lines] > > Hilary Butler. "Her death had come within six months of receiving the Gardasil vaccination, " ---and --- ---"details of the girl's death were "really scant stuff"."
Yet it is a "NZ Gardasil death", John?
PM
john - 10 Jan 2010 21:42 GMT "Peter Moran" <pmoran@internode.on.net> wrote in message news:00d3bc44$0$15586
> Yet it is a "NZ Gardasil death", John? > > PM law of averages http://www.whale.to/vaccine/gardasil_deaths.html
Martin - 10 Jan 2010 20:36 GMT >http://beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?1583-Jasmine-Renata >Open Letter to Dr Stewart Jessamine, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >but it was not known if she had completed the course - generally three shots >administered six weeks apart. My grandfather died over 80 years after receiving his childhood vaccines. Must be due to the vaccine. Damn those allopathic bastards!
john - 12 Jan 2010 11:50 GMT > My grandfather died over 80 years after receiving his childhood > vaccines. Must be due to the vaccine. Damn those allopathic bastards! Pity it didn't kill him afore you were spawned
Martin - 12 Jan 2010 19:17 GMT >> My grandfather died over 80 years after receiving his childhood >> vaccines. Must be due to the vaccine. Damn those allopathic bastards! > >Pity it didn't kill him afore you were spawned Ah yes, showing your true character. As if I didn't know.
Mark Probert - 10 Jan 2010 23:09 GMT > Hilary Butler. Damn, John, you could have saved a lot of scrolling if you had pointed out that this known anti-vac liar was the person behind this bullshit.
Jan Drew - 11 Jan 2010 03:14 GMT > > Hilary Butler. No, he did not write just those two words.
To use you own words. You snip what you cannot stand.
What John actually wrote:
http://beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?1583-Jasmine-Renata Open Letter to Dr Stewart Jessamine, Medsafe. Saturday, 9 January, 2009.
Dear Dr Jessamine,
I have been working with Rhonda Renata since October, regarding her daughter's death following the Gardasil vaccination, and have permission to discuss her death, and for all information I have to be made public. This letter has been written with Rhonda, and all attachments are attached as requested by Rhonda. I also have Rhonda's permission to discuss other aspects of this case on my website, now that Rhonda has gone public through the Herald today: Reference: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10619244 9 January 2010.
CSL, which markets Gardasil in New Zealand, said it was unlikely the investigations would find the vaccine caused Jasmine's death. The Ministry of Health said it was important not to jump to conclusions about Jasmine's death until more information was available. "Information from immunisation programmes overseas has not raised any concerns over the safety of this vaccine, in which over 44 million doses have been distributed worldwide," said Dr Stewart Jessamine, group manager of the ministry's medicines safety authority Medsafe. Reference: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10614748 December 11, 2009.
CARM director Michael Tatley yesterday told the Herald an investigation was under way, but details of the girl's death were "really scant stuff". The matter was still before the coroner. The girl is believed to have died in the past couple of months.
Her death had come within six months of receiving the Gardasil vaccination, but it was not known if she had completed the course - generally three shots administered six weeks apart.
Before I discuss specific issues which concern me, please find attached Jasmine's medical recordsJas medical records.pdf; two documents which were sent to Dr Michael Tatley's office by Rhonda Renata on the 21th November, 2009, (Report card Jasmine Renata HPV Reporting card.pdf , and supplementary documents Jasmine Renata.pdf ) acknowledged by Janelle Ashton on 23.11.2009, and assigned the CARM report number, 087237. Please also find attached the provisional report after autopsy Provisional postmortem.pdf ; ESR letter 17th Novmber 2009 ESR 17 Nov 2009.pdf , and please note that this was all that has been received by the parents.
� Can you read the provisional report?
� Do you think that this "information" is appropriate for parents?
� Shouldn't parents in Rhonda's position, receive an outline of what will be done; how, and in what time frame?
Jasmine died on 22nd September 2009.
� Do you think it reasonable that Jasmine's parents still have no autopsy results?
As you will see, all three batch numbers for Jasmine's Gardasil vaccines were supplied on the report card. Furthermore, the supplementary document provided, gave very detailed information from the medical records, and from Jasmine's mother Rhonda.
� Why then, on December 11, 2009, did Michael Tatley inform the Herald that he didn't know if she had completed the series, and that information was really scant stuff?
� How can the public have any confidence in CARM when they deny the existence of the very information they request that a parent send to them?
Here are what I consider to be key issues which the Ministry must address:
The fact that at least THREE teenage girls died in their sleep between 1 September and 30 November 2009. These are only the ones we know about. One of those, Jasmine Renata, is confirmed as receiving the full Gardasil series before she died.
� What about Jaylene Pai, and the other Jasmine, in Napier, who died shortly before Jasmine Renata?
� What about any others, whose parents think that their child is the only one who has died in her sleep?
There is also concern in this country and overseas, about seizures following Gardasil. I note from letters to the editor, that prominent medical people in New Zealand, who consider themselves expert in this area, have discounted USA deaths of young girls who have died while driving, following the receipt of Gardasil. On the face of it, a car crash looks highly improbable doesn't it.
� However, do those people realise that FDA has initiated an investigation of those car crashes on the basis that the girls driving, had developed seizures after Gardasil, and in some cases, the first seizure, appeared to coincide with them driving a car?
It's no more improbable, than the clusters of cases of broken limbs in recipients of Menomune A in 1987, in children who had developed ataxia after receipt of that vaccine. Losing your ability to walk proper after a vaccine, could quite feasibly result in a broken arm. That "concept" should not be dismissed, just because other children break their arms.
� Are you aware also, of data from VAERS and elsewhere, showing that girls given Gardasil in the premenstrual phase, have more serious reactions, and that their reactions get worse on a monthly basis, just before their periods?
New Zealand has what you call the National Immunisation Register (NIR). At the moment, this register is used as a vaccine enforcement tool, it's "purpose" being to mop up and vaccinate by any means possible, as many children as possible.
But in the NIR, you have a tool which could potentially be very useful as a "flag".
Jasmine, Jasmine and Jai, should be on the NIR. In fact, all the children who have received Gardasil, will be on the NIR, and conversely, most of the children who HAVE NOT received Gardasil, should be on the NIR.
Comparison of these two groups could be instructive.
If you were able to run a computer analysis on the children who have had Gardasil, how many would you find who had mysteriously died in their sleep? You don't know, because you can't.
How many young girls might you find, who now have a diagnosis of CFS after Gardasil? You don't know, because you can't.
How many young girls might you find who have recently been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder? You don't know, because you can't.
Why? Because NIR is used as an enforcement tool, not an efficient modality of comparison, to see whether or not health events after vaccination are only happening in one group.
I realise that the NIR's use is however, somewhat limited, because many adolescents who have not had Gardasil, will have had DT and we know from Tsumiyama Tsumiyama 09 repeat vax autoimmunity.pdf and Toplak Toplak 08 influenza vax autoimmune.pdf that any vaccine has the potential to cause autoimmunity (and death). Siegrist Siegrist 07 ad event mistaken HPV.pdf should also be taken seriously, but . how are you going to do that?
You could use NIR, if you had the "will" to do so.
BUT. in order to assess any vaccine reaction at whatever age, or autoimmunity causation properly, you would need a totally unvaccinated cohort.
Right now, this country has a significant "totally unvaccinated-by- choice " population, which could form an ideal control group to show you what is normal in children who never have vaccines. However these parents and children mostly stay out of sight, and well away from the medical profession. Many, if not most of them, will not be on the NIR, because the actions of nurses turning up and browbeating the few that are on the NIR. The stories of intimidation, have spread right throughout the non-vaccinating grapevine.
Their reluctance to deal with the NIR is reinforced by hospital staff/ medical professionals and particularly IMAC's extremely rude and punitive approach to non-vaccinating parents in the last few years.
I suggest that it's time you initiate a reform of medical attitudes in this country, and convince parents who don't vaccinate their children at all, that their children can be studied as a legitimate control group, if they are not pressured to vaccinate, or character assassinated for not doing so.
However, what to me is the most important aspect of Gardasil, is the aluminium adjuvant. See Shaw Shaw 09 aluminium.pdf attached. Dr Shaw sent me his 2006 paper , but it's in two parts and is a total of 10 mb. What makes this aluminium adjuvant even more serious, in my mind, is that while it's clear that injected aluminium has direct access to neuronal tissue, Gardasil also contains Polysorbate 80, which is used as a coating for certain types of brain drugs, because polysorbate easily pulls those drugs through the blood brain barrier Kreuter 02 polysorbate bbb drugs.pdf .
� Question. Does Polysorbate 80 increase the amount of aluminium in a Gardasil recipient's brain?
In Jasmine's case, you will see that some evolving symptoms in her last three months, are compatible with motor-neuron impairment in the brain. More worryingly, her ability to make decisions, and "work things out" markedly deteriorated in the last three months of her life.
Dr Shaw suggested that at autopsy, destruction of motor neurons should be looked for in brain samples, and the Morin stain for Aluminium should be used to ascertain it's presence in the brain.
On enquiry, it was found that New Zealand's autopsy protocols would not accommodate either.
Which raises another question.
� How can we have any confidence in a coroner's finding, when the autopsy doesn't contain tests (which a doctor knowledgeable about the action of aluminium vaccine adjuvants in animals), considers crucial, in order to solve Jasmine's case?
Jasmine's mother, Rhonda, is right to state that the medical profession in this country will be unlikely to come up with any explanations. Not just because the autopsy process is basic in the extreme, but because should those tests come back positive for aluminium, given the medical profession's track record on vaccine reactions so far, it's presence in the brain would be guaranteed to be blamed on everything else . except the vaccine.
I have been contacted by many people who have had serious reactions after Gardasil.
The following are common to all their stories:
� Doctors are totally dismissive that there is any possible connection with any reaction to Gardasil.
� Doctors refused to report the reaction.
� Doctors have nothing to offer with regard to treatment.
All of these people are now undertaking alternative medicine protocols, because there is nothing else available to them.
Some are having some success, and others are having none.
What you have right now, in New Zealand, is a similar situation as exists in UK, European Union, Canada, USA and Australia. There are significant numbers of girls, all showing very similar patterns relating to events following Gardasil, and in nearly every case, any relationship with the Gardasil vaccine is refuted right from the moment the child, or parent opens their mouths. As a result of the medical professions consistently refusal to investigate these cases individually, and appropriately, many organisations are being set up, and websites opened to collect the data which the medical profession will not.
You may ask:
� Why have I stayed silent about Jasmine so far?
The first reason what that it was agreed that Rhonda would be the first to go public in her own time. The second reason was that we wanted to see whether or not the New Zealand medical and governmental system could competently deal with one very well laid out complaint to CARM, without media involvement. This is a case about which John Key, Tony Ryall, Tariana Turia, and many others have known about, from the start.
The evidence of the last few months shows that the ability of the medical profession to effectively address vaccine reactions with integrity and honesty, is zero. In frustration, Rhonda on her own initiative, has decided to go public, and I will now be suggesting to everyone else, that if they have the energy and emotional ability to cope with the crap that will be thrown their way by the medical profession for doing so, that their first port of call should be the media, not the medical profession.
Sincerely,
Hilary Butler.
> Damn, John, you could have saved a lot of scrolling if you had pointed > out that this known anti-vac liar was the person behind this bullshit. LOL. In your so- called- opinion.
McDougall - 19 Jan 2010 04:39 GMT >> Damn, John, you could have saved a lot of scrolling if you had pointed >> out that this known anti-vac liar was the person behind this bullshit. For anyone reading this is you can go to www.truthaboutgardasil.org and see more anti-vac "liars." These people were pro-vac which is why they vaccinated their daughters in the first place.
You "men" should really be ashamed of yourselves. You're talking about something you have absolutely no personal knowledge of.
There is no need to lie.
>> > Hilary Butler. > [quoted text clipped - 381 lines] > >LOL. In your so- called- opinion. john - 11 Jan 2010 06:55 GMT http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_One_When_your_c hild_has_a_vaccine_reaction/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Two_Reporting_t he_Reaction/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Three_Carm_and_ Jasmine_Renata/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Four_Autopsy_an d_Jasmine_Renata/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Five_Jasmine,_t he_tip_of_the_iceberg/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Six_Some_more_o f_the_iceberg/
john - 11 Jan 2010 21:36 GMT http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seven_Gardasil_ and_the_Harper/
http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk_-embers_Only/post/Part_Ei ght_Gardasil_and_Mark_Probert/
Peter Moran - 11 Jan 2010 22:09 GMT > http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seven_Gardasil_ and_the_Harper/ Diana Harper, unlike Hilary the antivax nutcase, believes that vaccines are effective and sufficiently safe for their purpose. Her only concern is whether certain benefits have been exaggerated.
PM
> http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk_-embers_Only/post/Part_Ei ght_Gardasil_and_Mark_Probert/ Jan Drew - 11 Jan 2010 22:55 GMT > >http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seve... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Show quoted text - McDougall - 19 Jan 2010 04:26 GMT >> http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seven_Gardasil_ and_the_Harper/ > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk_-embers_Only/post/Part_Ei ght_Gardasil_and_Mark_Probert/ Peter - you sound like you get paid to make these posts attacking anyone who points out that this vaccine is potentially dangerous if not deadly in some cases. She died after 6 months of receiving the vaccine but she was ill progressively over those six months. Now you could argue her case is "scant" the reality is the numbeers of girls who are being injured are of great concern. I think if you're so keen on this vaccine you should get it- its defintiely for you. Your attacking sarcastic replies implies you are either a shill who gets paid to troll these blogs and shut down discussion or just a really ignorant goof. There is medical science to back up the dangers claims. maybe your time would be better spent brushing up on that. That is of course if you are genuine.
McDougall - 19 Jan 2010 07:41 GMT >> Damn, John, you could have saved a lot of scrolling if you had pointed >> out that this known anti-vac liar was the person behind this bullshit. For anyone reading this is you can go to www.truthaboutgardasil.org and see more anti-vac "liars." These people were pro-vac which is why they vaccinated their daughters in the first place. The females that got vaccinated who are reporting their hair falling out and more severe neurological and immunological disorders were pro- vac.
You "men" should really be ashamed of yourselves. You're talking about something you have absolutely no personal knowledge of.
There is no need to lie.
Your venomous sarcasm is highly suspect. Glad you can joke about something that is quite serious and should be looked at by obviously more capable minds than your own.
>>> http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seven_Gardasil_ and_the_Harper/ >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >maybe your time would be better spent brushing up on that. That is of course >if you are genuine. McDougall - 19 Jan 2010 07:42 GMT >> Damn, John, you could have saved a lot of scrolling if you had pointed >> out that this known anti-vac liar was the person behind this bullshit. For anyone reading this is you can go to www.truthaboutgardasil.org and see more anti-vac "liars." These people were pro-vac which is why they vaccinated their daughters in the first place. The females that got vaccinated who are reporting their hair falling out and more severe neurological and immunological disorders were pro- vac.
You "men" should really be ashamed of yourselves. You're talking about something you have absolutely no personal knowledge of.
There is no need to lie.
Your venomous sarcasm is highly suspect. Glad you can joke about something that is quite serious and should be looked at by obviously more capable minds than your own.
>>> http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Part_Seven_Gardasil_ and_the_Harper/ >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >maybe your time would be better spent brushing up on that. That is of course >if you are genuine.
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