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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2004Jan Denies Lying, Then Lies Again
Jan the Accuser wrote: > >From: Mark Thorson nospam@sonic.net > > > >Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to discredit > >you by making insinuations about who you are or what your > >motives may be. > > > >Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the > >pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works. > > That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have NEVER accused anyone of > any such thing. > > So do prove your claim Mark!!!!! > > You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!! ----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills ----- Whatever organized medicine says is swallowed hook line and sinker by the shill EGO handicapped debunkers who are brainwashed. Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert. Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife. As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife. As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people. > As a matter of fact I will prove it. Looks like you need to make > another retraction! Prove what? Prove your false accusations? You can't deny making those accusations, and then stand by them, at the same time. (Or maybe you can, but you'll look like a fool. I guess that's nothing new for you. You can't even tell the difference.) > Are you man enough to do it????? > > Jan Man enough to do what? Look like a fool? Like you? Mark, I sure with you and a few others would start a newsgroup "alt.abuse.jandrew" and take your comments there so as to leave this one free for discussions about alternative health care, pro or con. Marvin Marvin L. Zinn Reply to: marvinlzinn@mindspring.com Using Virtual Access Windows 2000 build 2600 > Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Marvin Marvin, I sure wish that she would take her abuse to "alt.call-everyone-I-disagree-with-a-liar" and stop fomenting trouble here so the pros and cons of al med can be discussed. IOW, complain to her. She is the source of the problems. << Marvin, I sure wish that she would take her abuse to "alt.call-everyone-I-disagree-with-a-liar" and stop fomenting trouble here so the pros and cons of al med can be discussed. IOW, complain to her. She is the source of the problems. No, those that dislike the choices that Jan, and others have made in their lives here using alternative medicine are the problem. Including those that disagree with alternative forms of medicine...those that believe it is *their job* to warn others that using alternative medicine is bad. They should be at the very least be honest by stating, alternative medicine is taking *money* right out of the pockets of the conventional medicine world, and it is their job to keep people hooked on conventional medicine... At least be honest, Probert, this is what this is all about isn't it? "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester). >Subject: Re: Jan Denies Lying, Then Lies Again >From: debbee1023@aol.comnojunk (DEBBEE1023) >Date: 3/13/2004 11:44 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <20040313144431.26484.00001437@mb-m20.aol.com> >I sure wish that she would take her abuse to >"alt.call-everyone-I-disagree-with-a-liar" and stop fomenting trouble here >so the pros and cons of al med can be discussed. >IOW, complain to her. She is the source of the problems. OMG...how OFTEN must we "complain to her" and still she plods on with her bs >those that believe it is *their >job* to warn others that using alternative medicine is bad. They "those" that warn others that one must demand objective proof that "alt" can do anything is what you mean I think personally I "believe" in and "use" both chiro and massage....and recommend both to friends and clients >alternative medicine is taking *money* >right out of the pockets of the conventional medicine world actually it is sadder that "money is coming out of the pockets" of the desperate and needy.... funny that NONE of the alties understand THIS concept... actually alt treatment costs MORE....since insurance will not cover it... but rarely does any alt moan about the MONEY being made by the alties...and quacks like Hulda... nor have any of these charlatans been shown to be doing this for altruistic reasons.. note the credit card and PayPay symbols on their websites... it is the job of the alts to "keep people hooked" on alt treatment...it is a cash cow to them hawki..... << personally I "believe" in and "use" both chiro and massage....and recommend both to friends and clients >> Whopee skippy!! << actually it is sadder that "money is coming out of the pockets" of the desperate and needy.... Let's talk about the outrageous amount of money being spent every month for health insurance by people in this country. Yes, "money is coming out of the pockets of the desperate and needy" for crappy conventional medicine. << actually alt treatment costs MORE....since insurance will not cover it... >> This is not entirely true. They cover chelation, massage, chiropractic, accupressure, accupuncture, and other alternatives....who are you trying to feed this crap too? << but rarely does any alt moan about the MONEY being made by the alties...and quacks like Hulda... >> Jealous? Does she make more money than you do? What's the difference between doctors and other health care professionals getting kickbacks in gifts, or money for prescribing drugs that their "drug salesman" are pushing? << it is the job of the alts to "keep people hooked" on alt treatment...it is a cash cow to them >> No, that would be conventional medicine too...who exactly are you trying to fool here? Duh. "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester). >Subject: Re: Jan Denies Lying, Then Lies Again >From: debbee1023@aol.comnojunk (DEBBEE1023) >Date: 3/13/2004 2:05 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <20040313170532.20240.00001215@mb-m27.aol.com> >This is not entirely true. They cover chelation, massage, chiropractic, >accupressure, accupuncture, >and other alternatives....who are you trying to feed this crap too? ahhhh....let us review the above ONE policy we had did cover chiro....the rest NADA NADA...and this was/is class I PPO coverage.... chelation for "medical" reasons,,ie heavy metal toxicity is a different thing...as this is the ONLY thing chelation works for.. "who" am I trying to feed this crap too??? hmmm...how about ME....since I know MY policy doesn't cover any unproven methods.. and yeah..massage is great...at $50 an hour...I consider it money well spent.... >Jealous? Does she make more money than you do? actually we are retired..but when we were working we made a very handsome living...and didn't have to retreat south of the border to do so... >and other health care professionals >getting kickbacks in gifts, or money for prescribing drugs that their "drug well...if you consider "pens and note pads" kickbacks....money?? LOL... funny tho...my pool service also drops off pens and notepads.. >cash cow to them >> familiarize yourself with the meaning of this slang..... means "you pays and gets nothing".. .>who exactly are you trying to >fool here? Duh. perhaps "those" of you who do NOT have professional credentials prefer to believe the dribble the alts say about "us".... hawki..... Unless insurance companies are required by law to pay for alternative treatments, they rarely do. California doesn't require these to be covered except for basic chiropractic treatment, Thus when I went to a California acupuncturist for my "frozen shoulder", I had to pay 100% out of pocket ($60 per visit); when acupuncture didn't work & I then checked in with a chiropractor, I paid a $10 co-pay, & the insurance company picked up the $40 or $50 balance. Some insurance plans in non-pay states give you a short list of alternative practitioners that they hook up with that offer maybe 20% discounts, but unless you have an alternative health policy or rider & live in one of the few states that require insurance payment, you'll pay for "unrecognized" treatment out-of-pocket. << chelation for "medical" reasons,,ie heavy metal toxicity is a different thing...as this is the ONLY thing chelation works for.. >> And those medical reasons have a lot to do with people having a lot of metal exposures..coming straight from the environment...or the workplace...... why else would someone want to "chelate" if they didn't have metals in their body? << hmmm...how about ME....since I know MY policy doesn't cover any unproven methods.. >> sounds like lousy coverage to me. Many policies are covering a wide range of alternatives...or complementary therapies. << >and other health care professionals >getting kickbacks in gifts, or money for prescribing drugs that their "drug well...if you consider "pens and note pads" kickbacks....money?? LOL... >> Give me a break, it is beyond that, and that's common knowledge..... << funny tho...my pool service also drops off pens and notepads.. >> so doesn't many other services, and businesses, in an attempt to create new business for themselves.... << >cash cow to them >> familiarize yourself with the meaning of this slang..... >> I know what a "cash cow" is....and that's why I am also referencing conventional medicine to this. There are a lot of people who have unanswered health problems, and for which the doctor keeps reeling you back in for more, instead of having the decency to send you to a specialist in that field, he'd rather keep getting money and not doing anything.... << perhaps "those" of you who do NOT have professional credentials prefer to believe the dribble the alts say about "us".... >> What professional credentials do you have? Did you purchase them or earn them? Some of us do have credentials, and don't have to brag about them...... "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester). >Subject: Re: Jan Denies Lying, Then Lies Again >From: debbee1023@aol.comnojunk (DEBBEE1023) [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >them? > Some of us do have credentials, and don't have to brag about them...... Poor squawkie Jan Chelation works for metals like calcium and magnesium also. I believe aluminum is the only metal not chelatable to this date. > << > chelation for "medical" reasons,,ie heavy metal toxicity is a different > thing...as this is the ONLY thing chelation works for.. > Chelation works for metals like calcium and magnesium also. I believe > aluminum is the only metal not chelatable to this date. ========================== Yes, lets have all the calcium and magnesium removed from our bodies.... we'll sure be a healthy lot then. ;-)  SignatureKim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply looking for answers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ><< >chelation for "medical" reasons,,ie heavy metal toxicity is a different [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >why else would someone want to "chelate" if they didn't have metals in their >body? Because they are somatically hypervigilant, paranoid, scientifically illiterate, and/or gullible. Heck, Debbee, some people are so far gone, they *believe* that their blood was setting off metal detectors in the airports! Some will further allege that their MD uses a metal detector to monitor the chelation process! Debbee, don't you see just how crazy it sounds? > << > chelation for "medical" reasons,,ie heavy metal toxicity is a different [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > why else would someone want to "chelate" if they didn't have metals in their > body? good question. The answer is that someone lied to them and told them that cherlation is effective for atherosclerosis. "DEBBEE1023" <debbee1023@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message news:20040313170532.20240.00001215@mb-> Let's talk about the outrageous amount of money being spent every month for > health insurance by people in this country. Yes, "money is coming out of the > pockets of the desperate and needy" for crappy conventional medicine. So you're claiming the alts like Clark are treating people for FREE? No charge - out of the goodness of their hearts? Since when? > actually alt treatment costs MORE....since insurance will not cover it... > This is not entirely true. They cover chelation, massage, chiropractic, > accupressure, accupuncture, > and other alternatives....who are you trying to feed this crap too? Which Ins. covers all these? Blue Cross/Blue Shield? Medicare? > << but rarely does any alt moan about the MONEY being made by the alties...and > quacks like Hulda... >> > Jealous? Does she make more money than you do? Why answer a question with a question? She charges people thousands to stay in her sleazy clinic. Have you read about the INSIDE of the place? > What's the difference between doctors and other health care professionals > getting kickbacks in gifts, or money for prescribing drugs that their "drug > salesman" are pushing? Why don't you just answer the questions? > << it is the job of the alts to "keep people hooked" on alt treatment...it is a > cash cow to them >> > No, that would be conventional medicine too...who exactly are you trying to > fool here? Duh. Why don't you just answer the questions? Are you saying the alts treat for FREE now? SignatureKim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply looking for answers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ << Let's talk about the outrageous amount of money being spent every month for > health insurance by people in this country. Yes, "money is coming out of the > pockets of the desperate and needy" for crappy conventional medicine. >> Here's my comment as it was written above.... Next out of Kim's mouth is: << So you're claiming the alts like Clark are treating people for FREE? No charge - out of the goodness of their hearts? Since when? >> Now, what part of my comment has anything to do with what you wrote? It is a big ZERO.....it has nothing to do with what I wrote, Kim, so obviously, you are trolling here for a reason...to make up stuff that isn't here... Next is another comment (which Kim snipped herself) from Kim. << > actually alt treatment costs MORE....since insurance will not cover it... Now my comment as it was written: << > This is not entirely true. They cover chelation, massage, chiropractic, > accupressure, accupuncture, > and other alternatives....who are you trying to feed this crap too? >> << Which Ins. covers all these? Blue Cross/Blue Shield? Medicare? >> Kaiser, many other HMO's, and some of the PPO plans. I got chelation drugs from Kaiser.. Next is Kim's comment: << > << but rarely does any alt moan about the MONEY being made by the alties...and > quacks like Hulda... >> >> And then my comment: << > Jealous? Does she make more money than you do? >> And then Kim's comment: << Why answer a question with a question? She charges people thousands to stay in her sleazy clinic. Have you read about the INSIDE of the place? >> I can answer a question with a question if I want to. He/she whomever are you has claimed you are only looking for answers. How do you personally know about Clark's place? I haven't read about it, and I have no plans of going there. If you know so much, please do tell where you really got the information, and what your real reason is for attacking? My comment is next: << > What's the difference between doctors and other health care professionals > getting kickbacks in gifts, or money for prescribing drugs that their "drug > salesman" are pushing? >> Next is Kim's comments (who, as you will note, did not answer my question). << Why don't you just answer the questions? >> << > << it is the job of the alts to "keep people hooked" on alt treatment...it is a > cash cow to them >> >> And then my comment: << > No, that would be conventional medicine too...who exactly are you trying to > fool here? Duh. >> And then Kim's comments: << Why don't you just answer the questions? Are you saying the alts treat for FREE now? >> Some do, Kim, depending on the patient's ability to pay. I know of two places that I've heard about. I haven't been there, but I know they exist, because others I've known have gone there. And then Kim's comment: <<Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply looking for answers. >> No, you are not only looking for answers, you are stirring up the pot, trolling, and me thinks you are a plant. (And I am not talking about a potted petunia). "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester). >Subject: Re: Jan Denies Lying, Then Lies Again >From: debbee1023@aol.comnojunk (DEBBEE1023) >Date: 3/14/2004 10:20 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <20040314132004.02929.00001341@mb-m15.aol.com> >< > This is not entirely true. They cover chelation, massage, chiropractic, >> accupressure, accupuncture, >> and other alternatives....who are you trying to feed this crap too? >> >Kaiser, many other HMO's, and some of the PPO plans. >I got chelation drugs from Kaiser.. now that is funny!!! Having worked for Kaiser for 15 years...I can assure you that "chelation for heavy metals" is likely the ONLY thing above that is covered..and that is because it is proven that chelation removes heavy metals...duh massage,,chiro..accupuncture,,etc...nada nada on Kaiser.. please provide proof that YOUR KP plan covers these things (not chelation for heavy metals...different animal) in the past (and we have always had EXCELLENT executive level PPO coverages..various companies)..there was a time when chiro was covered..and actually massage IF done in the chiro office..but limited to 12 per year... the rest?? not hardly... hawki..... >me thinks you are a plant. (And I am not talking about a potted >petunia). No, but you're talking like you've been through a lot of pot plants.... =============BIG SNIP! All your BS aside - if the alts like Clark are charging for their services they are making money just like the pharm' companies and Lic Drs out there. Deal with it already. SignatureKim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply looking for answers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > << Marvin, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > At least be honest, Probert, this is what this is all about isn't it? Not at all, and I have expalioned this to you a gaszillion times, thus showing your inability to learn. >Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Marvin Interesting comment. One of the main reasons why discussions are not able to happen on mha is because Jan Drew personally attacks anyone who expresses any skepticism (con) of alternative treatments. If she would stop the personal attacks then we would stop confronting her about the personal attacks. I think it important to see where the problem originates. If we took the discussion of Jan DRew to another group, Jan Drew would remain here and continue to disrupt conversations. As a matter of fact, you should know this better than anyone Marvin. IIRC you and I were having a mutually respectful discussion a while back and Jan intruded just to make a personal attack. And to your credit Marvin, you confronted Jan about it and told her to butt out in so many words. Unless I am confusing you with some other Marvin but I think you are the one. I believe we were discussing flax oil at the time. Aloha, Rich ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- The best defense to logic is ignorance << Interesting comment. One of the main reasons why discussions are not able to happen on mha is because Jan Drew personally attacks anyone who expresses any skepticism (con) of alternative treatments. >> Anyone have a problem if I start a newsgroup...for all of the abusers here that attack those that are pro conventional medicine? Rich, is my inspiration for wanting to start this kind of ng, and so aren't the rest of his buddies. "If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester). |
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