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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / August 2008

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Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth

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JOHN - 10 Aug 2008 10:09 GMT
August 04, 2008
Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two,
you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and their
affiliations.

By J.B. Handley
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/every-child-by.html
17 years ago, in 1991, the DTP Vaccine was under fire for the high rate of
autism, brain injury and death it was causing in children. Lawsuits were
mounting. In fact, DTP was why Congress created the 1986 Vaccine Injury
Compensation Program in the first place. As Barbara Loe Fisher, co-author of
A Shot In the Dark, a book chronicling the problems with DPT, said, "it is
important to note that the vast majority of vaccine injury awards in the
VICP have been for children suffering DPT vaccine brain injuries and
deaths.of all the vaccines which have been routinely used by children in the
past century, the brain damaging effects of the pertussis (whooping cough)
portion of DPT vaccine is among the most well documented in the scientific
literature."

On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the largest
manufacturers of DTP vaccine at the time. A spokesperson for Lederle was
charged with working the press to try and defend DTP, mercury, and vaccines
in general--he was the Paul Offit of his time. This spokesperson, in January
1991, was quoted in the New York Times saying, "Any chemical product,
because it is a chemical substance, does produce some side effects. The
current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and
efficacious vaccine."

As we all know, the DTP vaccine was soon replaced with DTaP because of
safety concerns.

So what, you say?
Well, there's more to the story. In 1994, Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories
and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle
to the new owner, Wyeth.

This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title
today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs.

And, he sits on the Board of Every Child By Two.

When I watched CBS rip apart the conflicts (HERE) that vaccine promoters and
vaccine makers have, I was left with a nagging question: who the hell is
Every Child By Two? Yes, I knew Amanda Peet was their new spokesperson. I
knew Paul Offit had recently joined their board. But, who the hell were
they?

Doing some research, it turns out these "Special Interest Dot-Orgs"-SIDs for
short-are nothing new. Unfortunately, the 501(c)3 code of the IRS is very
vague on what constitutes a non-profit organization and there are very few
disclosure requirements for funding sources any public filings nonprofits
have to make. As an example, if you wanted to find out where Generation
Rescue gets its funding, you wouldn't be able to. No filing requirements
exist.
As you might expect, drug companies have taken full advantage of this murky
area. To my surprise, the press has been covering this story for years, just
not specific to vaccines. In a 2005 expose titled, "A little too cozy?
Not-for-profits may have undisclosed funding ties to for-profit drug
companies", Sacramento Bee reporters Dorsey Griffith and Steve Wiegand went
after the practice:

"The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these
nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the
American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides
information about nonprofits. "But how can they do it independently if they
are paid by the drug companies?"

Borochoff and other critics say that even the best-intentioned advocacy
groups can ignite public fears about conditions that may not be medical
problems, divert attention from more serious health issues and put pressure
on doctors to prescribe medications that may not be necessary.

While some of these advocacy organizations begin as true grass-roots
associations that later come to rely on financing from the pharmaceutical
industry, others sprout directly from drug company seed money. And some are
hybrids.

A Boston Globe investigation in 2007 revealed similar concerns:

But little attention has been paid to smaller nonprofits, especially patient
groups that are largely funded by the drug industry. Public Citizen's Peter
Lurie, who testifies frequently before FDA panels, noticed a shift as public
hearings "were becoming contaminated by people who didn't represent the
public in any way. They represented particular moneyed interests." Lurie,
deputy director of the consumer advocacy organization's health research
group, said, "It's a fair question: Who represents patients and how they
come to call themselves" patient representatives?

In 221 advisory committee meetings scrutinized, 32 of 44 speakers
representing patients said they had received funding from a company that
would be affected by the FDA's decision, according to a recent journal
article that Lurie coauthored about conflicts of interest on FDA advisory
panels.

And, The Philadelphia Inquirer also posted an investigative piece on the
practice saying, "Although patients seldom know it, many patient groups and
drug companies maintain close, multimillion-dollar relationships while
disclosing limited or no details about the ties." The Inquirer also
explained that the money to support these nonprofits often comes "from the
companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and
nonprofit officials said."

Wow. Of course, none of us are surprised. Back to Every Child By Two.

In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By
Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine
manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did take
money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it
just takes a little digging.

First, a little background. By nonprofit standards, ECBT is a rat-sh.t
organization. With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a
crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1 million,
they are a blip on the radar screen. As usual, the devil is in the details.

Let's look first at their total revenues for the last 3 years (we only have
numbers through 2006. Numbers for 2007 will probably be public in October):

Every Child By Two, Total Revenues:

2006: $752, 631
2005: $836,690
2004:$485,155

Within ECBT's revenues is a long-term contract they have had with Public
Health Solutions, another SIDs which is a front for the NY Department of
Health. This is effectively a long-term government contract that ECBT has
had for years. Focusing on 2006 and removing this piece of their revenues,
ECBT looks like this:

Every Child By Two, Total Revenues, excluding PHS:

2006: $513,011

So, the question is, where did the half million bucks come from? If you
looked at their 2004 Form 990, you would never know. If you looked at their
2005 Form 990, you would never know, either. But, in 2006 something changed.
Either a new accounting firm, a new accountant, a request from the IRS, I
don't know. I just know the form is longer and has more disclosure. On Page
23, in black & white, it reads:

"Wyeth Vaccine: Ensure all children from birth to Age 2 are fully
immunized."

And, how much did Wyeth give ECBT?

Wyeth gave $350,769. That's 68% of their non-contract revenue and 48% of
their total revenue. From one company. A vaccine manufacturer named Wyeth.
And Craig Engesser, a Wyeth spokesperson, has been on the board of ECBT for
as long as I can track it. He even served as the organization's treasurer!

Every Child By Two. Amanda Peet. Paul Offit. Craig Engesser. Wyeth. Lederle.
DTP. Rat-sh.t.

J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age
of Autism.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff - 10 Aug 2008 17:50 GMT
> August 04, 2008
> Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
> Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two,
> you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and their
> affiliations.

Thanks for making my day, John! I laughed so hard that I almost peed
my pants.

Rosalynn Carter is the former first lady. Only one person in that
photo works for Wyeth.

The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.

Clearly, the author of the article has alterier motives in attacking
this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving
vaccines.

Jeff
Mark Probert - 10 Aug 2008 19:07 GMT
> > August 04, 2008
> > Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving
> vaccines.

JB Handley is saturated with ulterior motives. He is virulently anti-
vaccination, uses his wealth to bully into silence those who question
him or show him to be what he is, and is a notorious cyber-squatter.
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 02:36 GMT
On Aug 10, 12:50 pm, Jeff <jeff....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving
> vaccines.

JB Handley is saturated with ulterior motives. He is virulently anti-
vaccination, uses his wealth to bully into silence those who question
him or show him to be what he is, and is a notorious cyber-squatter.

> On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the
> largest
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and
> efficacious vaccine."

In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By
> Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine
> manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did
> take
> money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it
> just takes a little digging.

Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories
> and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle
> to the new owner, Wyeth.
>
> This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title
> today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs.

"The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these
> nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the
> American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and
> nonprofit officials said."

With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a
> crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1
> million,
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age
> of Autism.
JOHN - 10 Aug 2008 20:09 GMT
>this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving
>vaccines.

Thanks for making my day, Jeff! I laughed so hard that I almost peed
my pants.

Have a nice day

"Wyeth gave $350,769. That's 68% of their non-contract revenue and 48% of
their total revenue."
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 02:32 GMT
On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:

> August 04, 2008
> Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
[quoted text clipped - 182 lines]
> J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age
> of Autism.

> August 04, 2008
> Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
> Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two,
> you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and
> their
> affiliations.

Thanks for making my day, John! I laughed so hard that I almost peed
my pants.

Rosalynn Carter is the former first lady. Only one person in that
photo works for Wyeth.

The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.

Clearly, the author of the article has alterier motives in attacking
this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving
vaccines.

Jeff

Poor Putz shows his is deaf, dumb and blind.

> On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the
> largest
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and
> efficacious vaccine."

In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By
> Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine
> manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did
> take
> money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it
> just takes a little digging.

Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories
> and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle
> to the new owner, Wyeth.
>
> This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title
> today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs.

"The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these
> nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the
> American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and
> nonprofit officials said."

With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a
> crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1
> million,
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age
> of Autism.

sgroups: sci.med, sci.med.nutrition, sci.med.cardiology, misc.kids.health
From: Jeffrey Peter, M.D. <dr...@my-deja.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:24:46 GMT
Local: Mon, Oct 30 2000 10:24 pm
Subject: Re: Response to "Dr. Jeffrey Utz"

*That is correct. I no longer practice medicine.*

From: Jeffrey Peter, M.D. <dr...@my-deja.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:02:45 GMT
Local: Sun, Nov 5 2000 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: Response to "Dr. Jeffrey Utz"

I hope you succeed. A well-run trial will only help fat people like me.

Jeff Utz

From: whal...@btinternet.com (john)
Date: 18 May 2002 22:36:35 -0700
Local: Sun, May 19 2002 1:36 am
Subject: Re: Nutrients better & safer than most drugs

"Wyle E. Coyote" <wyle_e_coy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Sorry, but I never used the name P. Utz. So you reaching up, and acting
> like
> a first grader.

Caught lying again, I collect your morphs:

Jeff Utz  jtest-u...@juno.com
Jeff Utz, M.D. jeff...@juno.com
Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeff...@softhome.net   Hence "Putz"
Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyot...@hotmail.com

Just type in Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. to google usenet to find your old
posts under that name, and you can then lie again by saying it is
someone else.

cheers

john

"During the last 10 years of my practice I utilised many therapies
that were not in the mainstream of medicine.  they were safe,
non-toxic and very effective.   When I retired I travelled and
researched other therapies...I spoke with many doctors and patients
who were getting excellent results from these alternative therapies
and witnessed their success first hand.  It is time to seriously
question and reject the standard orthodox cancer treatments of
surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, except in a very few instances.
      You may have difficulty in obtaining some of these
therapies..because the FDA has literally pressured Congress, under the
guise of protecting the public, to keep time-honoured cultural and
natural therapies out of the hands of the general public.  If you look
at the record of the FDA, it becomes obvious they are serving
interessts other than yours and mine
       The 'cancer establishment' is a network of extremely powerful
and wealthy companies whose members sit on the boards of many
non-profit organisations.  They literally control and direct all
cancer research within the USA and throughout the world......Although
these centres are non-profit they serve their masters by suppressing
most, if not all, non-patentable treatments in favour of the expensive
treatments therapies that have wrought havoc with patients while
losing the war against cancer."---Dr Willner MD

One can also follow the subject JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS
"M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t

08-03...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message

news:Ch5Qc.1528$zc4.1030972@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...

> The pagve you identify supports my supposition that Jeff is pursuing
> research, thus, patient care is irrelevant.

> However, IMNSHO, considering the climate of these newsgroups, posting
> anything that is even remotely personally identifying is not such a great
> idea. It aids in target aquisition.

The page also indicates:

Copyright © 1998,1999, 2000, 2001, 2002. Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. All rights
reserved.
Last revised: February 12, 2002.

So, at least through 2002 he may have been pursuing research.

As you get older, you sleep less. On average new-born babies sleep about 16
hours a day. Two year olds sleep about 13 hours a day. Ten year olds sleep
about 10 hours a day and 18-year olds sleep just over 8 hours a day.
Babies and young kids need so much sleep because sleep is important for
helping the brain develop. It also is important for leaning new things,
which babies need to do a lot of.
As you get older, your brain is still developing, but not as fast. So we
need less sleep. But even adults need, on average, 8 hours a day.
Reference: Principle of Neuroscience by Kandell & Schwartz.
Again.  This site is not proof of anything.  It is still a
self-proclaimed statement.  The American Board of Pediatrics only has
one Utz in their on-line database and that is a David Utz who was
accepted in 1946.  It is my guess that Dr. David Utz is long retired.

If Jeff P. Utz was on "educational limited medical license" from
95-97, I doubt that he is retired.  Did Jeff Utz complete his
residency? If not, there can be no claim to being a pediatrician. The
limited license could have been renewed up to 5 years.  Their records
do not show a renewal beyond 1997.

From the State of Michigan Medical Board

"educational limited medical license"

An educational limited license is granted to an individual who has
completed medical school and is participating in post-graduate
resident training.  The individual is licensed as a physician at that
point, however, their practice is limited to the institution in which
they are completing their residency program.  For example, if the
physician is completing a residency in General Surgery at Henry Ford
Hospital, the physician can only practice at Henry Ford Hospital while
under an educational limited license.  An educational limited license
is granted for a one year period.  It can be renewed on an annual
basis for an additional five years, pending verification from the
residency program that the physician is still in the residency
program.  That verification must be done yearly.  At the end of the
second year of postgraduate training, the physician can apply for a
full medical license, which then allows them to practice outside of
the residency while completing the remainder of their residency.

From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t
08-03...@lymbercartel.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:05:03 GMT
Local: Tues, Aug 3 2004 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS

Path:
g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t
08-03...@lymbercartel.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.support.breast-implant,misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
References: <bi7jg0d91bbj3o04a4j335dskqeff69pun@4ax.com>
<cecb1d$i0j@library1.airnews.net>
<68a31254.0407301527.74fe9527@posting.google.com>
<cegcr6$6io@library1.airnews.net>
<68a31254.0408021100.135e6cb9@posting.google.com>
<866cef19.0408030348.39056151@posting.google.com>
<68a31254.0408031039.54380023@posting.google.com>
Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS
Lines: 40
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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:05:03 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.194.64.219

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Organization: Optimum Online

> A friend and I have done searches through the internet using both
> Google and Web Ferret.  We discounted Dr. Lisa Utz since she is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> I can claim to be Queen Elizabeth, but it doesn't make it so.

You performed a very thorough search which documents that there is no
Jeffrey P. Utz practising medicine in the United States. However, that is
not exhaustive of the issue of qualifications.

Jeffrey P. Utz may have graduated medical school and had the degree of
Doctor of Medicne conferred on him, and never, even for a moment, practised
medicine anywhere. I know of several people who graduated medical school
with a MD degree who went directly into research, and, never, ever, intended
to see a patient.

As you can see from these links, it appears that he was engaged in research:

www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan2000/947354575.Ns.r.html

www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may99/926654723.Ns.r.html

www.madsci.wustl.edu/posts/archives/oct98/909783227.Ns.r.html

Date: Sat Jan 8 07:49:37 2000
Posted By: Jeffrey Utz, M.D., Neuroscience, pediatrics, Allegheny University

Date: Thu May 13 20:12:19 1999
Posted By: Jeffrey Utz, M.D., Neuroscience, pediatrics, Allegheny University
Area of science: Neuroscience

From: "Coleah" <col...@pacifier.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:01:22 GMT
Local: Tues, Aug 3 2004 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS

http://www.msu.edu/~utz/

Jeffrey P Utz
xxx Ridge Rd
Lyndhurst, NJ 07071-2429
Tel.: (201) xxx-5758
Jeff - 11 Aug 2008 02:53 GMT
<...>

> Poor Putz shows his is deaf, dumb and blind.

Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the
kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.

It does show that you have no argument.

And, I bet if he called someone dumb, he would get the grammar right
(he is, not his is).

Jeff
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 05:06 GMT
> On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 589 lines]
> Lyndhurst, NJ 07071-2429
> Tel.: (201) xxx-5758
JOHN - 11 Aug 2008 09:12 GMT
>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the
>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.

>It does show that you have no argument.

You can talk

After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Yazbak is an a.s.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are
Peter Bowditch - 11 Aug 2008 14:02 GMT
>>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the
>>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
>pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)

As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these
are your words. Congratulations on seeing the truth.

>Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
>Yazbak is an a.s.

I couldn't agree with you more, John.

>Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
>"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 12 Aug 2008 01:49 GMT
>>>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the
>>>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these
> are your words.

Shows how dishonest you are.  You very well know that Jeffrey Utz posted
them.
But, you ASSumed, and then LIED.

And YOU itch were there in each thread.  Thank for proven once again, you
are a
liar and deceiver.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b02d325

groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing,
talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD

Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything.
The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his
understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are
clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and
who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.

Jeff
<...>

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070a069f4

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158abe04bb

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...

>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email
>> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this
>> person a "putz?" Come on, only an idiot would not think this is not a
>> personal attack.

>> Jeff

> Its you Jeff, but maybe you have an alter ego you don't know about?

> Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D.
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041205160659/http://www.msu.edu/~utz/
> Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your
> birth name?

Like we won't notice  that the  URL is totally different between this and
what is  on the whale to page?

The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340a1639b

rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm
Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1bf46a4

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.

Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3c11a9e

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT
Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am
Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP

Yazbak is an a.s.

A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

makes a change:
After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Yazbak is an a.s.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."

"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost
nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is
too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz

John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue.
While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil
beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff

And the lying itch was right there is every thread.

Congratulations on seeing the truth.

Yes, YOU have once again proven YOU are a liar.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b02d325

groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing,
talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD

Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything.
The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his
understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are
clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and
who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.

Jeff
<...>

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070a069f4

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158abe04bb

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...

>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email
>> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this
>> person a "putz?" Come on, only an idiot would not think this is not a
>> personal attack.

>> Jeff

> Its you Jeff, but maybe you have an alter ego you don't know about?

> Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D.
> http://web.archive.org/web/20041205160659/http://www.msu.edu/~utz/
> Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your
> birth name?

Like we won't notice  that the  URL is totally different between this and
what is  on the whale to page?

The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340a1639b

rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm
Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1bf46a4

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.

Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3c11a9e

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT
Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am
Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP

Yazbak is an a.s.

A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

makes a change:
After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Yazbak is an a.s.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."

"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost
nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is
too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz

John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue.
While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil
beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff

>>Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
>>Yazbak is an a.s.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
>>"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are
Peter Bowditch - 12 Aug 2008 03:35 GMT
>Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything.

Thank you, Jan. Sensible people agree with you completely on this.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 13 Aug 2008 04:57 GMT
> "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:

>>>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the
>>>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.

>>>It does show that you have no argument.

>>You can talk

>>After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
>>understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on
>>the
>>pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)

> As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these
> are your words.

Shows how dishonest you are.  You very well know that Jeffrey Utz posted
them.
But, you ASSumed, and then LIED.

And YOU itch were there in each thread.  Thank for proven once again, you
are a
liar and deceiver.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b...

groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing,
talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD

Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything.
The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his
understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are
clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and
who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.

Jeff
<...>

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158a...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...

>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email
>> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your
> birth name?

Like we won't notice  that the  URL is totally different between this and
what is  on the whale to page?

The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340...

rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm
Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.

Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT
Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am
Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP

Yazbak is an a.s.

A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

makes a change:
After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Yazbak is an a.s.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."

"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost
nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is
too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz

John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue.
While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil
beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff

And the lying itch was right there is every thread.

Congratulations on seeing the truth.

Yes, YOU have once again proven YOU are a liar.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b...

groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing,
talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am
Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD

Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything.
The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his
understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are
clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and
who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.

Jeff
<...>

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158a...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...

>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email
>> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your
> birth name?

Like we won't notice  that the  URL is totally different between this and
what is  on the whale to page?

The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.

Jeff

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340...

rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm
Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES

Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT
Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.

Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3...

From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT
Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am
Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP

Yazbak is an a.s.

A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html

makes a change:
After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't
understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the
pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Yazbak is an a.s.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.

"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."

"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost
nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is
too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz

John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue.
While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil
beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff
D. C. Sessions - 11 Aug 2008 15:07 GMT
> The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
> Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.

And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other
dangerous "treatments" for autism.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Mike - 12 Aug 2008 02:08 GMT
>> The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
>> Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
>
> And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other
> dangerous "treatments" for autism.

It does not nullify the fact that in 2006 Every Child By Two got
$350,769 from Wyeth - 48% of all the money. And we do not know about
other drug makers.

By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
- a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
David Wright - 12 Aug 2008 05:13 GMT
>> In message
><9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125ac4@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>$350,769 from Wyeth - 48% of all the money. And we do not know about
>other drug makers.

Interestingly, Wyeth-Ayerst makes only two of the vaccines on the US
list, and they aren't the exclusive maker of either one (Hib and
pneumococcal).  Both are mercury-free, by the way.

>By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
>- a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.

That's interesting.  Though useless and pointless to mention.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "There are two kinds of Republicans:  millionaires and suckers."
                                                     -- John Dolan
Mike - 13 Aug 2008 13:02 GMT
>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
>
> That's interesting.  Though useless and pointless to mention.

The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization.
Its very name screams is a marketing slogan.
D. C. Sessions - 13 Aug 2008 13:47 GMT
> The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization.
> Its very name screams is a marketing slogan.

Sort of like "Back to Sleep."

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Mark Probert - 13 Aug 2008 13:49 GMT
> >> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
> >> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization.
> Its very name screams is a marketing slogan.

WOW! Now that is an interesting concept.

Name something that is NOT a marketing slogan. Pick one:

a. Generation Rescue
b. Green Our Vaccines
c. Age of Autism
d. None of the above
e. a. b. & c.
Mike - 14 Aug 2008 01:55 GMT
>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> a. Generation Rescue
I am not aware of any similarly sounding marketing slogan. The only
thing that comes to mind is "Operation Rescue", a defunct militant
anti-abortion organization.
> b. Green Our Vaccines
This is not a name of any organization.
> c. Age of Autism
Ditto.
> d. None of the above
> e. a. b. & c.
Mark Probert - 14 Aug 2008 13:47 GMT
> >>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
> >>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> thing that comes to mind is "Operation Rescue", a defunct militant
> anti-abortion organization.

So what? Your implication was the the name is used for marketing.

> b. Green Our Vaccines
>
> This is not a name of any organization.

Who said they are? It is a slogan, used for marketing.

> > c. Age of Autism
> Ditto.

Double ditto.

> > d. None of the above
> > e. a. b. & c.-

Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit.
Mike - 15 Aug 2008 03:46 GMT
>>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
>>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> So what? Your implication was the the name is used for marketing.

"Operation Rescue" was not a marketing slogan. "New every two" IS
a marketing slogan.

>> b. Green Our Vaccines
>>
>> This is not a name of any organization.
>
> Who said they are? It is a slogan, used for marketing.

Marketing what product? Some green colorant? I cannot figure it out
from the name, can you?

>>> c. Age of Autism
>> Ditto.
>
> Double ditto.

That's just silly. "Age of autism" is a title of a newspaper series.
Such a title cannot market anything.

>>> d. None of the above
>>> e. a. b. & c.-
>
> Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit.

Sorry, Markey, you are not doing good PR job here.
Mark Probert - 15 Aug 2008 14:55 GMT
> >>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
> >>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Marketing what product? Some green colorant? I cannot figure it out
> from the name, can you?

Marketing, or selling, an idea, i.e. that vaccines somehow or other,
are toxic. Of course, this is false advertising.

> >>> c. Age of Autism
> >> Ditto.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's just silly. "Age of autism" is a title of a newspaper series.
> Such a title cannot market anything.

Incorrect, See above.

> >>> d. None of the above
> >>> e. a. b. & c.-
>
> > Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit.
>
> Sorry, Markey, you are not doing good PR job here.-

The fact that you cannot see through the marketing scams of the
merchants of disease, disability and death says a lot.
Mike - 18 Aug 2008 03:17 GMT
>>>>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
>>>>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Marketing, or selling, an idea, i.e. that vaccines somehow or other,
> are toxic. Of course, this is false advertising.

Nonsense. A slogan like "make our cars safer" does not
"market" an idea that cars should not be used or anything like that.

"Green our vaccines" apparently does not mean "screw vaccines".
Saying that is does is a deliberate distortion.

>>>>> c. Age of Autism
>>>> Ditto.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The fact that you cannot see through the marketing scams of the
> merchants of disease, disability and death says a lot.

Did you trademark "merchants of disease, disability and death" already?
Mark Probert - 18 Aug 2008 15:13 GMT
> >>>>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two"
> >>>>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Nonsense. A slogan like "make our cars safer" does not
> "market" an idea that cars should not be used or anything like that.

Not a valid analogy.

> "Green our vaccines" apparently does not mean "screw vaccines".
> Saying that is does is a deliberate distortion.

No, it is not. It is an accurate description of the movement to call
them anti-vaccination. I have read their bilge.

> >>>>> c. Age of Autism
> >>>> Ditto.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Did you trademark "merchants of disease, disability and death" already?

No, as I donate it to the public domain, since it is an accurate
description of you and your anti-vaccination ilk.
Jan Drew - 12 Aug 2008 02:42 GMT
> In message
> <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125ac4@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> | chance that someone will see the light. |
> +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+

This should show all the light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Hhgaf3Co0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkr4l12veI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyJb-izu6M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e81K4hIoDn0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl14FSSxiFo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd0gSxsdMk4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEw0Y5LJ6vg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsmBoGPzx9U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivIiZfkOUc8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tcJ1qO4je8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA1nluKlY74&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0w2rgt99Nk&feature=related

http://www.ageofautism.com/jb_handley/index.html
Kevysmom - 15 Aug 2008 23:29 GMT
> > The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
> > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
>
> And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other
> dangerous "treatments" for autism.

Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
making any money by promoting chelation?

And,  no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing!

> In message <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125...@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> | chance that someone will see the light. |
> +- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> -+
D. C. Sessions - 16 Aug 2008 02:46 GMT
> And,  no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing!

Tell that to the parents of the dead kids.
(And, yes, I understand that you can make your statement
tautologically correct by definition of "know what etc."

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Kevysmom - 21 Aug 2008 19:58 GMT
> > And,  no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing!
>
> Tell that to the parents of the dead kids.

Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer!

> In message <a49d4948-d2b7-4d6d-9c51-db1dd8279...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> | chance that someone will see the light. |
> +- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> -+
D. C. Sessions - 23 Aug 2008 15:18 GMT
> Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer!

My irony meter just exploded.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
MothWrangler - 24 Aug 2008 01:42 GMT
>>Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer!
>
> My irony meter just exploded.

I hate when that happens. One moment you're just sitting there, reading
usenet while drinking coffee, with your cat dozing peacefully on your
monitor. Then KA-BOOOM!!!! You've now not only got a meter that's nuked,
but you've also got coffee all over you and your keyboard. And your
panicked cat's run off, not to be seen again for days.

And, knowing you, you were probably using a Ultra High Irony Model too.

Unfortunately, it's a well known fact that over the years, the irony
demands of usenet (and, I suppose, cyberspace in general) have been
increasing exponentially. I don't know if the current meter technology
can keep up, let alone stay ahead, of what's needed in today's irony
heavy climate. We may need to develop a new type of technology.

Anyway, I hope you were wearing all appropriate protective equipment and
that your meter's warranty is still in effect.

Signature

Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1
Ann/Emma Anne #4

Mark Probert - 18 Aug 2008 15:15 GMT
> > > The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
> > > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
> making any money by promoting chelation?

JB Handley. Look him up.

> And,  no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing!

Since it is useless, the risk:benefit ratio is infinite (RISK/ZERO =
Infinity).

> > In message <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125...@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kevysmom - 21 Aug 2008 19:57 GMT
> > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
> > making any money by promoting chelation?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Since it is useless, the risk:benefit ratio is infinite (RISK/ZERO =
> Infinity).

I am very familar with JB.

There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for
healthy people.

> > > > The author of the article you illegally posted is the  co-founder of
> > > > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark Probert - 21 Aug 2008 22:07 GMT
> > > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
> > > making any money by promoting chelation?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for
> healthy people.

Oh? dfo name the toxins?
Jan Drew - 22 Aug 2008 03:24 GMT
On Aug 21, 2:57 pm, Kevysmom <bluebun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
> > > making any money by promoting chelation?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for
> healthy people.

Oh? dfo name the toxins?

lol. dfo.

ZZZZ

As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
FACT is there are many.
Peter Bowditch - 22 Aug 2008 08:46 GMT
>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>FACT is there are many.

Then you should be able to name at least three.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Mark Probert - 22 Aug 2008 14:56 GMT
> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
> >FACT is there are many.
>
> Then you should be able to name at least three.

I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental
fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer
this question, since they cannot.
vernono - 22 Aug 2008 18:31 GMT
On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:

> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
> >FACT is there are many.
>
> Then you should be able to name at least three.

I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental
fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer
this question, since they cannot.

Repeat that for the M.D.s
Remember I work and have worked on both sides.
Alties tend to be required of larger numbers.
I hate it when some large institute used an experiment involving 6 people or
100 rats.

When have you worked in a lab for either cause?

A BASIC FACT
When a person uses the term ALTERNATE medicine, they are TOTALLY ignorant
of medicine.

Real doctors may discredit certain prescription drugs as dangerous or
ineffective.  These same doctors may also have non-prescription answers.  I
talking about doctors with major medical awards, heads of traditional
clinics, writers of articles for AMA.

What you refer to as traditional medicine is that which has been around and
failing for 50 years.  Your definition of alternate medicine is when a
doctor refuses to poison his patients.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 01:05 GMT
>> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>> >FACT is there are many.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer
>this question, since they cannot.

Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,
but as the claim was made that it is a FACT that "there are many" I
thought I might try a little optimism.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 03:23 GMT
On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:

> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
> >FACT is there are many.
>
> Then you should be able to name at least three.

I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental
fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer
this question, since they cannot.

Liar. Mercury.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 15:02 GMT
>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Liar. Mercury.

Two to go.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 19:54 GMT
Forget you wrote?

Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,

>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Two to go.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 22:30 GMT
>Forget you wrote?
>
>Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,

Two to go.

>>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Two to go.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

vernono - 23 Aug 2008 22:57 GMT
> Forget you wrote?
>
> Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,

You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary
toxins.

>>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Two to go.
Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:10 GMT
> > Forget you wrote?
>
> > Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,
>
> You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary
> toxins.

Vern, you just won the golden post award.

Cleanse do remove imaginary toxins.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 23:09 GMT
On Aug 23, 5:57 pm, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary
> toxins.

Vern, you just won the golden post award.

Cleanse do remove imaginary toxins.

Vernon also wrote:

Repeat that for the M.D.s
Remember I work and have worked on both sides.
Alties tend to be required of larger numbers.
I hate it when some large institute used an experiment involving 6 people or
100 rats.

When have you worked in a lab for either cause?

A BASIC FACT
When a person uses the term ALTERNATE medicine, they are TOTALLY ignorant
of medicine.

Real doctors may discredit certain prescription drugs as dangerous or
ineffective.  These same doctors may also have non-prescription answers.  I
talking about doctors with major medical awards, heads of traditional
clinics, writers of articles for AMA.

What you refer to as traditional medicine is that which has been around and
failing for 50 years.  Your definition of alternate medicine is when a
doctor refuses to poison his patients.

Forget that already?
Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:08 GMT
> >On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Two to go.

Not so fast. The issue is whether a toxin can be cleared by a cleanse.
If so, then the parents who are making the Geiers (rhymes with Liars)
wealthy, are being ripped off. Those children who are being CHEATlated
and chemically castrated by their protocol are being put in harms
way.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 22:34 GMT
"Mark Seth Probert" Proven Liar, Harasser, Disbarred attorney

Forgot he wrote:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/96f2269de7a8bdbc

From: Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Aug 17 2008 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: Seven Gold-ADHD and Medicated

Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Jan Drew eats buckets of vegetables - 24 Aug 2008 22:38 GMT
> "Mark Seth Probert" Proven Liar, Harasser, Disbarred attorney

You don't have any room to talk, Jan.

You spewed hatred of Jews and Catholics on these newsgroups.

Plus, the studies you post are all suspect.

Still paying off the daycare inspectors?
Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:06 GMT
> "Mark S Probert" LIES AGAIN! <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e1aaaa60-a13d-41a8-b57c-ab58dabb563e@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Liar. Mercury.

Can mercury be removed by a "cleanse"? Not even Hulda Quack ever
claimed that.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 22:31 GMT
UDP/ON Again!

OOPSIE.  Mark Seth Probert left out the FACT, I posted that.

>> "Mark S Probert" LIES AGAIN! <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:e1aaaa60-a13d-41a8-b57c-ab58dabb563e@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Can mercury be removed by a "cleanse"?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/96f2269de7a8bdbc

From: Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Aug 17 2008 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: Seven Gold-ADHD and Medicated

Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Jan Drew eats buckets of vegetables - 24 Aug 2008 22:35 GMT
> OOPSIE.  Mark Seth Probert left out the FACT, I posted that.

He left it out because it was unimportant, like most of the drivel you post
here.

You never post any proof or facts.

It's always the self-serving poppycock of an alternative health freak.

Still trying to promote the cure of breast cancer with apricot seeds?
Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 03:22 GMT
Proven liar, harasser and spammer "Peter Bo-itch" blather:

< ...

>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>FACT is there are many.
>
> Then you should be able to name at least three.

Have done that many times as you well know.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 15:04 GMT
>Proven liar, harasser and spammer "Peter Bo-itch" blather:

My name has such powerful juju that it must be types with missing
letters. (Strangely, the typer in this case seems to have a severe
problem with Jewish people typing "G-d", but we have come to expect
such double standards from her.)

> < ...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Have done that many times as you well know.

Remind me.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

D. C. Sessions - 23 Aug 2008 15:20 GMT
>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>FACT is there are many.
>
> Then you should be able to name at least three.

Their name is Legion.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 22:35 GMT
>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>>FACT is there are many.
>>
>> Then you should be able to name at least three.
>
>Their name is Legion.

And they are demonic and the only treatment is to transfer them into
pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative
medicine practitioners?

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

D. C. Sessions - 24 Aug 2008 18:55 GMT
>>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>>>FACT is there are many.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative
> medicine practitioners?

They tried it, and as a result we have John Best.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Richard Schultz - 25 Aug 2008 06:47 GMT
: And they are demonic and the only treatment is to transfer them into
: pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative
: medicine practitioners?

God only knows.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Jan Drew - 26 Aug 2008 07:05 GMT
>>Their name is Legion.

Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
Famous for the *gang*.
Peter Bowditch - 26 Aug 2008 15:03 GMT
>>>Their name is Legion.
>
>Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
>Famous for the *gang*.

1) I did not write it, as should be obvious from the chevrons in front
of it.

2) Didn't you recognise a quotation from the Bible? Are you saying
that quoting the Bible is a diversion? Does your pastor know that you
reject the Word as just being a diversion?

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 27 Aug 2008 05:47 GMT
> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>Their name is Legion.
>
> Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
> Famous for the *gang*.
Peter Bowditch - 28 Aug 2008 03:32 GMT
>> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>>Their name is Legion.
>>
>> Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
>> Famous for the *gang*.

Why did you snip my comments about the Bible, Jan? Are you ashamed of
the miracles of Jesus?

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 29 Aug 2008 04:35 GMT
> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>Their name is Legion.
>
> Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
> Famous for the *gang*.
Peter Bowditch - 29 Aug 2008 08:12 GMT
>> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:
>>>>Their name is Legion.
>>
>> Is not the subject.  It is just another diversion from the subject.
>> Famous for the *gang*.

You're repeating yourself, Jan.

Still snipping and calling Bible references "diversion", I see. Is
this because you think that the Bible is meaningless?

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

vernono - 23 Aug 2008 22:58 GMT
>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>>FACT is there are many.
>>
>> Then you should be able to name at least three.
>
> Their name is Legion.

:>)

> | The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
> | chance that someone will see the light. |
> +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
D. C. Sessions - 24 Aug 2008 15:51 GMT
>>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins.
>>>>FACT is there are many.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> :>)

Alas, I don't think Biblical references go over very well here.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
David Wright - 23 Aug 2008 19:21 GMT
>> > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is
>> > making any money by promoting chelation?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for
>healthy people.

Well, first off, you'd have to show that "toxins" are actually being
removed, and in sigificant amounts.

Beyond that, however, you'd also have to show that the treatment isn't
also doing more harm than good.

That's the trouble with, e.g., the chelation whackos.  They're so
fixated on their ideas about "removing toxins" that they completely
lose sight of the possibility that the treatment might also be doing
harm by removing things that are *not* toxins.  Like, say, calcium.

It's similar to the anti-vax nutballs who have managed to convince
themselves that vaccine-preventable diseases are harmless.  John
Scudamore is a perfect example.  He didn't die from measles, therefore
nobody does.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
  &