Medical Forum / General / Alternative / August 2008
Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
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JOHN - 10 Aug 2008 10:09 GMT August 04, 2008 Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two, you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and their affiliations.
By J.B. Handley http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/every-child-by.html 17 years ago, in 1991, the DTP Vaccine was under fire for the high rate of autism, brain injury and death it was causing in children. Lawsuits were mounting. In fact, DTP was why Congress created the 1986 Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the first place. As Barbara Loe Fisher, co-author of A Shot In the Dark, a book chronicling the problems with DPT, said, "it is important to note that the vast majority of vaccine injury awards in the VICP have been for children suffering DPT vaccine brain injuries and deaths.of all the vaccines which have been routinely used by children in the past century, the brain damaging effects of the pertussis (whooping cough) portion of DPT vaccine is among the most well documented in the scientific literature."
On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the largest manufacturers of DTP vaccine at the time. A spokesperson for Lederle was charged with working the press to try and defend DTP, mercury, and vaccines in general--he was the Paul Offit of his time. This spokesperson, in January 1991, was quoted in the New York Times saying, "Any chemical product, because it is a chemical substance, does produce some side effects. The current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and efficacious vaccine."
As we all know, the DTP vaccine was soon replaced with DTaP because of safety concerns.
So what, you say? Well, there's more to the story. In 1994, Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle to the new owner, Wyeth.
This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs.
And, he sits on the Board of Every Child By Two.
When I watched CBS rip apart the conflicts (HERE) that vaccine promoters and vaccine makers have, I was left with a nagging question: who the hell is Every Child By Two? Yes, I knew Amanda Peet was their new spokesperson. I knew Paul Offit had recently joined their board. But, who the hell were they?
Doing some research, it turns out these "Special Interest Dot-Orgs"-SIDs for short-are nothing new. Unfortunately, the 501(c)3 code of the IRS is very vague on what constitutes a non-profit organization and there are very few disclosure requirements for funding sources any public filings nonprofits have to make. As an example, if you wanted to find out where Generation Rescue gets its funding, you wouldn't be able to. No filing requirements exist. As you might expect, drug companies have taken full advantage of this murky area. To my surprise, the press has been covering this story for years, just not specific to vaccines. In a 2005 expose titled, "A little too cozy? Not-for-profits may have undisclosed funding ties to for-profit drug companies", Sacramento Bee reporters Dorsey Griffith and Steve Wiegand went after the practice:
"The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides information about nonprofits. "But how can they do it independently if they are paid by the drug companies?"
Borochoff and other critics say that even the best-intentioned advocacy groups can ignite public fears about conditions that may not be medical problems, divert attention from more serious health issues and put pressure on doctors to prescribe medications that may not be necessary.
While some of these advocacy organizations begin as true grass-roots associations that later come to rely on financing from the pharmaceutical industry, others sprout directly from drug company seed money. And some are hybrids.
A Boston Globe investigation in 2007 revealed similar concerns:
But little attention has been paid to smaller nonprofits, especially patient groups that are largely funded by the drug industry. Public Citizen's Peter Lurie, who testifies frequently before FDA panels, noticed a shift as public hearings "were becoming contaminated by people who didn't represent the public in any way. They represented particular moneyed interests." Lurie, deputy director of the consumer advocacy organization's health research group, said, "It's a fair question: Who represents patients and how they come to call themselves" patient representatives?
In 221 advisory committee meetings scrutinized, 32 of 44 speakers representing patients said they had received funding from a company that would be affected by the FDA's decision, according to a recent journal article that Lurie coauthored about conflicts of interest on FDA advisory panels.
And, The Philadelphia Inquirer also posted an investigative piece on the practice saying, "Although patients seldom know it, many patient groups and drug companies maintain close, multimillion-dollar relationships while disclosing limited or no details about the ties." The Inquirer also explained that the money to support these nonprofits often comes "from the companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and nonprofit officials said."
Wow. Of course, none of us are surprised. Back to Every Child By Two.
In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did take money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it just takes a little digging.
First, a little background. By nonprofit standards, ECBT is a rat-sh.t organization. With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1 million, they are a blip on the radar screen. As usual, the devil is in the details.
Let's look first at their total revenues for the last 3 years (we only have numbers through 2006. Numbers for 2007 will probably be public in October):
Every Child By Two, Total Revenues:
2006: $752, 631 2005: $836,690 2004:$485,155
Within ECBT's revenues is a long-term contract they have had with Public Health Solutions, another SIDs which is a front for the NY Department of Health. This is effectively a long-term government contract that ECBT has had for years. Focusing on 2006 and removing this piece of their revenues, ECBT looks like this:
Every Child By Two, Total Revenues, excluding PHS:
2006: $513,011
So, the question is, where did the half million bucks come from? If you looked at their 2004 Form 990, you would never know. If you looked at their 2005 Form 990, you would never know, either. But, in 2006 something changed. Either a new accounting firm, a new accountant, a request from the IRS, I don't know. I just know the form is longer and has more disclosure. On Page 23, in black & white, it reads:
"Wyeth Vaccine: Ensure all children from birth to Age 2 are fully immunized."
And, how much did Wyeth give ECBT?
Wyeth gave $350,769. That's 68% of their non-contract revenue and 48% of their total revenue. From one company. A vaccine manufacturer named Wyeth. And Craig Engesser, a Wyeth spokesperson, has been on the board of ECBT for as long as I can track it. He even served as the organization's treasurer!
Every Child By Two. Amanda Peet. Paul Offit. Craig Engesser. Wyeth. Lederle. DTP. Rat-sh.t.
J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff - 10 Aug 2008 17:50 GMT > August 04, 2008 > Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth > Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two, > you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and their > affiliations. Thanks for making my day, John! I laughed so hard that I almost peed my pants.
Rosalynn Carter is the former first lady. Only one person in that photo works for Wyeth.
The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
Clearly, the author of the article has alterier motives in attacking this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving vaccines.
Jeff
Mark Probert - 10 Aug 2008 19:07 GMT > > August 04, 2008 > > Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving > vaccines. JB Handley is saturated with ulterior motives. He is virulently anti- vaccination, uses his wealth to bully into silence those who question him or show him to be what he is, and is a notorious cyber-squatter.
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 02:36 GMT On Aug 10, 12:50 pm, Jeff <jeff....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving > vaccines. JB Handley is saturated with ulterior motives. He is virulently anti- vaccination, uses his wealth to bully into silence those who question him or show him to be what he is, and is a notorious cyber-squatter.
> On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the > largest [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and > efficacious vaccine." In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By
> Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine > manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did > take > money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it > just takes a little digging. Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories
> and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle > to the new owner, Wyeth. > > This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title > today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs. "The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these
> nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the > American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and > nonprofit officials said." With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a
> crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1 > million, [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age > of Autism. JOHN - 10 Aug 2008 20:09 GMT >this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving >vaccines. Thanks for making my day, Jeff! I laughed so hard that I almost peed my pants.
Have a nice day
"Wyeth gave $350,769. That's 68% of their non-contract revenue and 48% of their total revenue."
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 02:32 GMT On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
> August 04, 2008 > Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] > J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age > of Autism.
> August 04, 2008 > Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth > Managing Editor's Note: That's a photo of the board of Every Child By Two, > you can click HERE to see a larger photo and a list of the members and > their > affiliations. Thanks for making my day, John! I laughed so hard that I almost peed my pants.
Rosalynn Carter is the former first lady. Only one person in that photo works for Wyeth.
The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism.
Clearly, the author of the article has alterier motives in attacking this group which wants to make sure that everyone has life-saving vaccines.
Jeff
Poor Putz shows his is deaf, dumb and blind.
> On the firing line was Lederle Laboratories of Wayne, NJ, one of the > largest [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > current vaccine [DTP], as far as we are concerned, is a very safe and > efficacious vaccine." In the CBS Evening News piece on the APP, Paul Offit, and Every Child By
> Two, CBS was unable to provide any details on ECBT's ties to vaccine > manufacturers beyond a confirmation from the organization that they did > take > money from vaccine companies. But, it's right there in black & white, it > just takes a little digging. Wyeth bought Lederle Laboratories
> and the Lederle spokesperson--the Paul Offit of his time-went with Lederle > to the new owner, Wyeth. > > This spokesperson, Craig Engesser, he still works for Wyeth, his job title > today is Senior Director, Professional Affairs. "The public may be getting hoodwinked because they may think these
> nonprofits are independent," said Daniel Borochoff, president of the > American Institute of Philanthropy, a watchdog group that provides [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > companies' marketing or sales divisions, not charity offices, company and > nonprofit officials said." With a grand total of 3 employees, a tiny office suite in a
> crummy Washington D.C. neighborhood, and an annual budget under $1 > million, [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > J.B. Handley is co-founder of Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age > of Autism. sgroups: sci.med, sci.med.nutrition, sci.med.cardiology, misc.kids.health From: Jeffrey Peter, M.D. <dr...@my-deja.com> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:24:46 GMT Local: Mon, Oct 30 2000 10:24 pm Subject: Re: Response to "Dr. Jeffrey Utz"
*That is correct. I no longer practice medicine.*
From: Jeffrey Peter, M.D. <dr...@my-deja.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:02:45 GMT Local: Sun, Nov 5 2000 9:02 pm Subject: Re: Response to "Dr. Jeffrey Utz"
I hope you succeed. A well-run trial will only help fat people like me.
Jeff Utz
From: whal...@btinternet.com (john) Date: 18 May 2002 22:36:35 -0700 Local: Sun, May 19 2002 1:36 am Subject: Re: Nutrients better & safer than most drugs
"Wyle E. Coyote" <wyle_e_coy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Sorry, but I never used the name P. Utz. So you reaching up, and acting > like > a first grader. Caught lying again, I collect your morphs:
Jeff Utz jtest-u...@juno.com Jeff Utz, M.D. jeff...@juno.com Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeff...@softhome.net Hence "Putz" Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyot...@hotmail.com
Just type in Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. to google usenet to find your old posts under that name, and you can then lie again by saying it is someone else.
cheers
john
"During the last 10 years of my practice I utilised many therapies that were not in the mainstream of medicine. they were safe, non-toxic and very effective. When I retired I travelled and researched other therapies...I spoke with many doctors and patients who were getting excellent results from these alternative therapies and witnessed their success first hand. It is time to seriously question and reject the standard orthodox cancer treatments of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, except in a very few instances. You may have difficulty in obtaining some of these therapies..because the FDA has literally pressured Congress, under the guise of protecting the public, to keep time-honoured cultural and natural therapies out of the hands of the general public. If you look at the record of the FDA, it becomes obvious they are serving interessts other than yours and mine The 'cancer establishment' is a network of extremely powerful and wealthy companies whose members sit on the boards of many non-profit organisations. They literally control and direct all cancer research within the USA and throughout the world......Although these centres are non-profit they serve their masters by suppressing most, if not all, non-patentable treatments in favour of the expensive treatments therapies that have wrought havoc with patients while losing the war against cancer."---Dr Willner MD
One can also follow the subject JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t
08-03...@lymbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:Ch5Qc.1528$zc4.1030972@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> The pagve you identify supports my supposition that Jeff is pursuing > research, thus, patient care is irrelevant.
> However, IMNSHO, considering the climate of these newsgroups, posting > anything that is even remotely personally identifying is not such a great > idea. It aids in target aquisition. The page also indicates:
Copyright © 1998,1999, 2000, 2001, 2002. Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. All rights reserved. Last revised: February 12, 2002.
So, at least through 2002 he may have been pursuing research.
As you get older, you sleep less. On average new-born babies sleep about 16 hours a day. Two year olds sleep about 13 hours a day. Ten year olds sleep about 10 hours a day and 18-year olds sleep just over 8 hours a day. Babies and young kids need so much sleep because sleep is important for helping the brain develop. It also is important for leaning new things, which babies need to do a lot of. As you get older, your brain is still developing, but not as fast. So we need less sleep. But even adults need, on average, 8 hours a day. Reference: Principle of Neuroscience by Kandell & Schwartz. Again. This site is not proof of anything. It is still a self-proclaimed statement. The American Board of Pediatrics only has one Utz in their on-line database and that is a David Utz who was accepted in 1946. It is my guess that Dr. David Utz is long retired.
If Jeff P. Utz was on "educational limited medical license" from 95-97, I doubt that he is retired. Did Jeff Utz complete his residency? If not, there can be no claim to being a pediatrician. The limited license could have been renewed up to 5 years. Their records do not show a renewal beyond 1997.
From the State of Michigan Medical Board
"educational limited medical license"
An educational limited license is granted to an individual who has completed medical school and is participating in post-graduate resident training. The individual is licensed as a physician at that point, however, their practice is limited to the institution in which they are completing their residency program. For example, if the physician is completing a residency in General Surgery at Henry Ford Hospital, the physician can only practice at Henry Ford Hospital while under an educational limited license. An educational limited license is granted for a one year period. It can be renewed on an annual basis for an additional five years, pending verification from the residency program that the physician is still in the residency program. That verification must be done yearly. At the end of the second year of postgraduate training, the physician can apply for a full medical license, which then allows them to practice outside of the residency while completing the remainder of their residency.
From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t 08-03...@lymbercartel.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:05:03 GMT Local: Tues, Aug 3 2004 4:05 pm Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-August 3, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t 08-03...@lymbercartel.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant,misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health References: <bi7jg0d91bbj3o04a4j335dskqeff69pun@4ax.com> <cecb1d$i0j@library1.airnews.net> <68a31254.0407301527.74fe9527@posting.google.com> <cegcr6$6io@library1.airnews.net> <68a31254.0408021100.135e6cb9@posting.google.com> <866cef19.0408030348.39056151@posting.google.com> <68a31254.0408031039.54380023@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <PdSPc.1346$Nw3.1082184@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:05:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.194.64.219
rgName: Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) OrgID: OPTO Address: 111 new south RD City: Hicksville StateProv: NY PostalCode: 11801 Country: US
X-Complaints-To: abuse@cv.net X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1091563503 68.194.64.219 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:05:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:05:03 EDT Organization: Optimum Online
> A friend and I have done searches through the internet using both > Google and Web Ferret. We discounted Dr. Lisa Utz since she is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I can claim to be Queen Elizabeth, but it doesn't make it so. You performed a very thorough search which documents that there is no Jeffrey P. Utz practising medicine in the United States. However, that is not exhaustive of the issue of qualifications.
Jeffrey P. Utz may have graduated medical school and had the degree of Doctor of Medicne conferred on him, and never, even for a moment, practised medicine anywhere. I know of several people who graduated medical school with a MD degree who went directly into research, and, never, ever, intended to see a patient.
As you can see from these links, it appears that he was engaged in research:
www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan2000/947354575.Ns.r.html
www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may99/926654723.Ns.r.html
www.madsci.wustl.edu/posts/archives/oct98/909783227.Ns.r.html
Date: Sat Jan 8 07:49:37 2000 Posted By: Jeffrey Utz, M.D., Neuroscience, pediatrics, Allegheny University
Date: Thu May 13 20:12:19 1999 Posted By: Jeffrey Utz, M.D., Neuroscience, pediatrics, Allegheny University Area of science: Neuroscience
From: "Coleah" <col...@pacifier.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:01:22 GMT Local: Tues, Aug 3 2004 6:01 pm Subject: Re: JEFF P UTZ'S LIE ABOUT IMPLANTS
http://www.msu.edu/~utz/
Jeffrey P Utz xxx Ridge Rd Lyndhurst, NJ 07071-2429 Tel.: (201) xxx-5758
Jeff - 11 Aug 2008 02:53 GMT <...>
> Poor Putz shows his is deaf, dumb and blind. Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.
It does show that you have no argument.
And, I bet if he called someone dumb, he would get the grammar right (he is, not his is).
Jeff
Jan Drew - 11 Aug 2008 05:06 GMT > On Aug 10, 5:09 am, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 589 lines] > Lyndhurst, NJ 07071-2429 > Tel.: (201) xxx-5758 JOHN - 11 Aug 2008 09:12 GMT >Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the >kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.
>It does show that you have no argument. You can talk
After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) Yazbak is an a.s. Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though. "Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are
Peter Bowditch - 11 Aug 2008 14:02 GMT >>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the >>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the >pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these are your words. Congratulations on seeing the truth.
>Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) >Yazbak is an a.s. I couldn't agree with you more, John.
>Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though. >"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 12 Aug 2008 01:49 GMT >>>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the >>>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these > are your words. Shows how dishonest you are. You very well know that Jeffrey Utz posted them. But, you ASSumed, and then LIED.
And YOU itch were there in each thread. Thank for proven once again, you are a liar and deceiver.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b02d325
groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing, talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD
Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything. The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.
Jeff <...>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070a069f4
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158abe04bb
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email >> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this >> person a "putz?" Come on, only an idiot would not think this is not a >> personal attack.
>> Jeff
> Its you Jeff, but maybe you have an alter ego you don't know about?
> Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. > http://web.archive.org/web/20041205160659/http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ > Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your > birth name? Like we won't notice that the URL is totally different between this and what is on the whale to page?
The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340a1639b
rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000 Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1bf46a4
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3c11a9e
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP
Yazbak is an a.s.
A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
makes a change: After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) Yazbak is an a.s. Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."
"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz
John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue. While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff
And the lying itch was right there is every thread.
Congratulations on seeing the truth.
Yes, YOU have once again proven YOU are a liar.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b02d325
groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing, talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD
Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything. The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.
Jeff <...>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070a069f4
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158abe04bb
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email >> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this >> person a "putz?" Come on, only an idiot would not think this is not a >> personal attack.
>> Jeff
> Its you Jeff, but maybe you have an alter ego you don't know about?
> Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. > http://web.archive.org/web/20041205160659/http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ > Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your > birth name? Like we won't notice that the URL is totally different between this and what is on the whale to page?
The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340a1639b
rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000 Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1bf46a4
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3c11a9e
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP
Yazbak is an a.s.
A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
makes a change: After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) Yazbak is an a.s. Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."
"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz
John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue. While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff
>>Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) >>Yazbak is an a.s. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though. >>"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are Peter Bowditch - 12 Aug 2008 03:35 GMT >Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything. Thank you, Jan. Sensible people agree with you completely on this.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 13 Aug 2008 04:57 GMT > "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>Is this what Jesus would do? Call people cuss-word names? Not even the >>>kids on my soccer team are immature enough to call others names.
>>>It does show that you have no argument.
>>You can talk
>>After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't >>understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on >>the >>pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007)
> As you don't appear to be quoting anyone, I can only assume that these > are your words. Shows how dishonest you are. You very well know that Jeffrey Utz posted them. But, you ASSumed, and then LIED.
And YOU itch were there in each thread. Thank for proven once again, you are a liar and deceiver.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b...
groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing, talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD
Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything. The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.
Jeff <...>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158a...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email >> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your > birth name? Like we won't notice that the URL is totally different between this and what is on the whale to page?
The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340...
rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000 Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP
Yazbak is an a.s.
A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
makes a change: After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) Yazbak is an a.s. Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."
"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz
John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue. While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff
And the lying itch was right there is every thread.
Congratulations on seeing the truth.
Yes, YOU have once again proven YOU are a liar.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/1f2d31870b...
groups: misc.health.alternative, misc.kids.health, sci.med.nursing, talk.politics.medicine, uk.people.health From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:03:06 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:03 am Subject: Re: Dr. James Howenstine, MD
Please do not make the assumption that John knows or understands anything. The fact that he cites the whaleto pages should demonstrate that his understanding of anything is quite low. After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her.
Jeff <...>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/adf3819070...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:05:37 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 10:05 am Subject: Re: Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.
Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-)
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9cb5b8158a...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:00:10 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 3:00 pm Subject: Re: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Z9GdnQq1dsIAUTbYnZ2dnUVZ8tyqnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Nice personal attacks, whoever this person is. None of the email >> addresses are valid and the web page doesn't work. And calling this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Sorry to miss out the dot, my mistake, but who am I to argue with your > birth name? Like we won't notice that the URL is totally different between this and what is on the whale to page?
The fact remains that the URL on the whaleto page does not work.
Jeff
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/ac12c49340...
rom: "JOHN" <j...@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:18:25 -0000 Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 2:18 pm Subject: DOCTORS FOR VACCINE LIES
Jeff P.Utz http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16d97457d1...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:30 GMT Local: Mon, Jan 15 2007 9:53 am Subject: Re: Dr. Lendon Smith M.D.
Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/fe539486e3...
From: "Jeff" <j...@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:32:23 GMT Local: Fri, Jan 12 2007 9:32 am Subject: Re: F. E. Yazbak, MD, FAAP
Yazbak is an a.s.
A new tune from Jeff! http://www.whale.to/m/putz.html
makes a change: After all, the whaleto pages are clearly written by some twit who doesn't understand medicine or science and who is too ashamed to put her name on the pages. Can't blame her. (jan 6/2007) Correct. There is no evidence that John ever had any intelligence. ;-) Yazbak is an a.s. Smith was a clueless twit. Apparently, he was a good actor though.
"Too bad you can't see what a jerk you are."
"Warning: The whale.to site is maintained bys someone who knows almost nothing about medicine and peditarics or vaccines and science. The author is too ashamed to put hi name on the page. I don't blame him."---Putz
John wears an Aluminum foil beanie which prevents him from getting a clue. While I agree that he is unable to get a clue, it is not the aluminum foil beanie. It is what is underneath it.--Jeff
D. C. Sessions - 11 Aug 2008 15:07 GMT > The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism. And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other dangerous "treatments" for autism.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Mike - 12 Aug 2008 02:08 GMT >> The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of >> Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism. > > And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other > dangerous "treatments" for autism. It does not nullify the fact that in 2006 Every Child By Two got $350,769 from Wyeth - 48% of all the money. And we do not know about other drug makers.
By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless.
David Wright - 12 Aug 2008 05:13 GMT >> In message ><9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125ac4@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >$350,769 from Wyeth - 48% of all the money. And we do not know about >other drug makers. Interestingly, Wyeth-Ayerst makes only two of the vaccines on the US list, and they aren't the exclusive maker of either one (Hib and pneumococcal). Both are mercury-free, by the way.
>By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" >- a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. That's interesting. Though useless and pointless to mention.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Mike - 13 Aug 2008 13:02 GMT >> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" >> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. > > That's interesting. Though useless and pointless to mention. The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization. Its very name screams is a marketing slogan.
D. C. Sessions - 13 Aug 2008 13:47 GMT > The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization. > Its very name screams is a marketing slogan. Sort of like "Back to Sleep."
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Mark Probert - 13 Aug 2008 13:49 GMT > >> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" > >> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The point was that "Every Child by Two" is a marketing organization. > Its very name screams is a marketing slogan. WOW! Now that is an interesting concept.
Name something that is NOT a marketing slogan. Pick one:
a. Generation Rescue b. Green Our Vaccines c. Age of Autism d. None of the above e. a. b. & c.
Mike - 14 Aug 2008 01:55 GMT >>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" >>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > a. Generation Rescue I am not aware of any similarly sounding marketing slogan. The only thing that comes to mind is "Operation Rescue", a defunct militant anti-abortion organization.
> b. Green Our Vaccines This is not a name of any organization.
> c. Age of Autism Ditto.
> d. None of the above > e. a. b. & c. Mark Probert - 14 Aug 2008 13:47 GMT > >>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" > >>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > thing that comes to mind is "Operation Rescue", a defunct militant > anti-abortion organization. So what? Your implication was the the name is used for marketing.
> b. Green Our Vaccines > > This is not a name of any organization. Who said they are? It is a slogan, used for marketing.
> > c. Age of Autism > Ditto. Double ditto.
> > d. None of the above > > e. a. b. & c.- Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit.
Mike - 15 Aug 2008 03:46 GMT >>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" >>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So what? Your implication was the the name is used for marketing. "Operation Rescue" was not a marketing slogan. "New every two" IS a marketing slogan.
>> b. Green Our Vaccines >> >> This is not a name of any organization. > > Who said they are? It is a slogan, used for marketing. Marketing what product? Some green colorant? I cannot figure it out from the name, can you?
>>> c. Age of Autism >> Ditto. > > Double ditto. That's just silly. "Age of autism" is a title of a newspaper series. Such a title cannot market anything.
>>> d. None of the above >>> e. a. b. & c.- > > Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit. Sorry, Markey, you are not doing good PR job here.
Mark Probert - 15 Aug 2008 14:55 GMT > >>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" > >>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Marketing what product? Some green colorant? I cannot figure it out > from the name, can you? Marketing, or selling, an idea, i.e. that vaccines somehow or other, are toxic. Of course, this is false advertising.
> >>> c. Age of Autism > >> Ditto. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's just silly. "Age of autism" is a title of a newspaper series. > Such a title cannot market anything. Incorrect, See above.
> >>> d. None of the above > >>> e. a. b. & c.- > > > Sorry, Mikey, you get no credit. > > Sorry, Markey, you are not doing good PR job here.- The fact that you cannot see through the marketing scams of the merchants of disease, disability and death says a lot.
Mike - 18 Aug 2008 03:17 GMT >>>>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" >>>>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Marketing, or selling, an idea, i.e. that vaccines somehow or other, > are toxic. Of course, this is false advertising. Nonsense. A slogan like "make our cars safer" does not "market" an idea that cars should not be used or anything like that.
"Green our vaccines" apparently does not mean "screw vaccines". Saying that is does is a deliberate distortion.
>>>>> c. Age of Autism >>>> Ditto. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The fact that you cannot see through the marketing scams of the > merchants of disease, disability and death says a lot. Did you trademark "merchants of disease, disability and death" already?
Mark Probert - 18 Aug 2008 15:13 GMT > >>>>>>>> By the way, "Every Child By Two" sounds very similar to "New every two" > >>>>>>>> - a marketing motto of Verizon Wireless. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Nonsense. A slogan like "make our cars safer" does not > "market" an idea that cars should not be used or anything like that. Not a valid analogy.
> "Green our vaccines" apparently does not mean "screw vaccines". > Saying that is does is a deliberate distortion. No, it is not. It is an accurate description of the movement to call them anti-vaccination. I have read their bilge.
> >>>>> c. Age of Autism > >>>> Ditto. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Did you trademark "merchants of disease, disability and death" already? No, as I donate it to the public domain, since it is an accurate description of you and your anti-vaccination ilk.
Jan Drew - 12 Aug 2008 02:42 GMT > In message > <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125ac4@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > | chance that someone will see the light. | > +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ This should show all the light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Hhgaf3Co0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkr4l12veI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyJb-izu6M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e81K4hIoDn0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl14FSSxiFo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd0gSxsdMk4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEw0Y5LJ6vg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsmBoGPzx9U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivIiZfkOUc8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tcJ1qO4je8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA1nluKlY74&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0w2rgt99Nk&feature=related
http://www.ageofautism.com/jb_handley/index.html
Kevysmom - 15 Aug 2008 23:29 GMT > > The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of > > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism. > > And has a substantial income from promoting chelation and other > dangerous "treatments" for autism. Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is making any money by promoting chelation?
And, no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing!
> In message <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125...@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > | chance that someone will see the light. | > +- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> -+ D. C. Sessions - 16 Aug 2008 02:46 GMT > And, no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing! Tell that to the parents of the dead kids. (And, yes, I understand that you can make your statement tautologically correct by definition of "know what etc."
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Kevysmom - 21 Aug 2008 19:58 GMT > > And, no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing! > > Tell that to the parents of the dead kids. Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer!
> In message <a49d4948-d2b7-4d6d-9c51-db1dd8279...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > | chance that someone will see the light. | > +- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> -+ D. C. Sessions - 23 Aug 2008 15:18 GMT > Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer! My irony meter just exploded.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
MothWrangler - 24 Aug 2008 01:42 GMT >>Fear tactics!!! They dont work with the informed consumer! > > My irony meter just exploded. I hate when that happens. One moment you're just sitting there, reading usenet while drinking coffee, with your cat dozing peacefully on your monitor. Then KA-BOOOM!!!! You've now not only got a meter that's nuked, but you've also got coffee all over you and your keyboard. And your panicked cat's run off, not to be seen again for days.
And, knowing you, you were probably using a Ultra High Irony Model too.
Unfortunately, it's a well known fact that over the years, the irony demands of usenet (and, I suppose, cyberspace in general) have been increasing exponentially. I don't know if the current meter technology can keep up, let alone stay ahead, of what's needed in today's irony heavy climate. We may need to develop a new type of technology.
Anyway, I hope you were wearing all appropriate protective equipment and that your meter's warranty is still in effect.
 Signature Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1 Ann/Emma Anne #4
Mark Probert - 18 Aug 2008 15:15 GMT > > > The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of > > > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is > making any money by promoting chelation? JB Handley. Look him up.
> And, no, its not dangerous if you know what you are doing! Since it is useless, the risk:benefit ratio is infinite (RISK/ZERO = Infinity).
> > In message <9c9608b0-4f82-4d3a-a6bf-72fd13125...@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, Jeff wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Kevysmom - 21 Aug 2008 19:57 GMT > > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is > > making any money by promoting chelation? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Since it is useless, the risk:benefit ratio is infinite (RISK/ZERO = > Infinity). I am very familar with JB.
There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for healthy people.
> > > > The author of the article you illegally posted is the co-founder of > > > > Generation Rescue and Managing Editor of Age of Autism. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Mark Probert - 21 Aug 2008 22:07 GMT > > > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is > > > making any money by promoting chelation? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for > healthy people. Oh? dfo name the toxins?
Jan Drew - 22 Aug 2008 03:24 GMT On Aug 21, 2:57 pm, Kevysmom <bluebun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is > > > making any money by promoting chelation? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for > healthy people. Oh? dfo name the toxins?
lol. dfo.
ZZZZ
As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. FACT is there are many.
Peter Bowditch - 22 Aug 2008 08:46 GMT >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >FACT is there are many. Then you should be able to name at least three.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Mark Probert - 22 Aug 2008 14:56 GMT > >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. > >FACT is there are many. > > Then you should be able to name at least three. I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer this question, since they cannot.
vernono - 22 Aug 2008 18:31 GMT On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. > >FACT is there are many. > > Then you should be able to name at least three. I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer this question, since they cannot.
Repeat that for the M.D.s Remember I work and have worked on both sides. Alties tend to be required of larger numbers. I hate it when some large institute used an experiment involving 6 people or 100 rats.
When have you worked in a lab for either cause?
A BASIC FACT When a person uses the term ALTERNATE medicine, they are TOTALLY ignorant of medicine.
Real doctors may discredit certain prescription drugs as dangerous or ineffective. These same doctors may also have non-prescription answers. I talking about doctors with major medical awards, heads of traditional clinics, writers of articles for AMA.
What you refer to as traditional medicine is that which has been around and failing for 50 years. Your definition of alternate medicine is when a doctor refuses to poison his patients.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 01:05 GMT >> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >> >FACT is there are many. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer >this question, since they cannot. Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin, but as the claim was made that it is a FACT that "there are many" I thought I might try a little optimism.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 03:23 GMT On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote:
> >As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. > >FACT is there are many. > > Then you should be able to name at least three. I'll gladly settle for one. This claim is one of the fundamental fallacies of alternative medicine. None of the alties will ever answer this question, since they cannot.
Liar. Mercury.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 15:02 GMT >On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Liar. Mercury. Two to go.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 19:54 GMT Forget you wrote?
Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin,
>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Two to go. Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 22:30 GMT >Forget you wrote? > >Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin, Two to go.
>>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Two to go.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
vernono - 23 Aug 2008 22:57 GMT > Forget you wrote? > > Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin, You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary toxins.
>>>On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Two to go. Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:10 GMT > > Forget you wrote? > > > Yes, I'm still waiting for someone to name just one specific toxin, > > You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary > toxins. Vern, you just won the golden post award.
Cleanse do remove imaginary toxins.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 23:09 GMT On Aug 23, 5:57 pm, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You don't get real answers very often here, also some might list imaginary > toxins. Vern, you just won the golden post award.
Cleanse do remove imaginary toxins.
Vernon also wrote:
Repeat that for the M.D.s Remember I work and have worked on both sides. Alties tend to be required of larger numbers. I hate it when some large institute used an experiment involving 6 people or 100 rats.
When have you worked in a lab for either cause?
A BASIC FACT When a person uses the term ALTERNATE medicine, they are TOTALLY ignorant of medicine.
Real doctors may discredit certain prescription drugs as dangerous or ineffective. These same doctors may also have non-prescription answers. I talking about doctors with major medical awards, heads of traditional clinics, writers of articles for AMA.
What you refer to as traditional medicine is that which has been around and failing for 50 years. Your definition of alternate medicine is when a doctor refuses to poison his patients.
Forget that already?
Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:08 GMT > >On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Two to go. Not so fast. The issue is whether a toxin can be cleared by a cleanse. If so, then the parents who are making the Geiers (rhymes with Liars) wealthy, are being ripped off. Those children who are being CHEATlated and chemically castrated by their protocol are being put in harms way.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 22:34 GMT "Mark Seth Probert" Proven Liar, Harasser, Disbarred attorney
Forgot he wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/96f2269de7a8bdbc
From: Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Local: Sun, Aug 17 2008 5:18 pm Subject: Re: Seven Gold-ADHD and Medicated
Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Jan Drew eats buckets of vegetables - 24 Aug 2008 22:38 GMT > "Mark Seth Probert" Proven Liar, Harasser, Disbarred attorney You don't have any room to talk, Jan.
You spewed hatred of Jews and Catholics on these newsgroups.
Plus, the studies you post are all suspect.
Still paying off the daycare inspectors?
Mark Probert - 24 Aug 2008 21:06 GMT > "Mark S Probert" LIES AGAIN! <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e1aaaa60-a13d-41a8-b57c-ab58dabb563e@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 22, 3:46 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Liar. Mercury. Can mercury be removed by a "cleanse"? Not even Hulda Quack ever claimed that.
Jan Drew - 24 Aug 2008 22:31 GMT UDP/ON Again!
OOPSIE. Mark Seth Probert left out the FACT, I posted that.
>> "Mark S Probert" LIES AGAIN! <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in >> messagenews:e1aaaa60-a13d-41a8-b57c-ab58dabb563e@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Can mercury be removed by a "cleanse"? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/96f2269de7a8bdbc
From: Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Local: Sun, Aug 17 2008 5:18 pm Subject: Re: Seven Gold-ADHD and Medicated
Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Jan Drew eats buckets of vegetables - 24 Aug 2008 22:35 GMT > OOPSIE. Mark Seth Probert left out the FACT, I posted that. He left it out because it was unimportant, like most of the drivel you post here.
You never post any proof or facts.
It's always the self-serving poppycock of an alternative health freak.
Still trying to promote the cure of breast cancer with apricot seeds?
Jan Drew - 23 Aug 2008 03:22 GMT Proven liar, harasser and spammer "Peter Bo-itch" blather:
< ...
>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>FACT is there are many. > > Then you should be able to name at least three. Have done that many times as you well know.
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 15:04 GMT >Proven liar, harasser and spammer "Peter Bo-itch" blather: My name has such powerful juju that it must be types with missing letters. (Strangely, the typer in this case seems to have a severe problem with Jewish people typing "G-d", but we have come to expect such double standards from her.)
> < ... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Have done that many times as you well know. Remind me.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
D. C. Sessions - 23 Aug 2008 15:20 GMT >>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>FACT is there are many. > > Then you should be able to name at least three. Their name is Legion.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Peter Bowditch - 23 Aug 2008 22:35 GMT >>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>>FACT is there are many. >> >> Then you should be able to name at least three. > >Their name is Legion. And they are demonic and the only treatment is to transfer them into pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative medicine practitioners?
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
D. C. Sessions - 24 Aug 2008 18:55 GMT >>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>>>FACT is there are many. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative > medicine practitioners? They tried it, and as a result we have John Best.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
Richard Schultz - 25 Aug 2008 06:47 GMT : And they are demonic and the only treatment is to transfer them into : pigs. Why is this treatment seldom, if ever, offered by alternative : medicine practitioners? God only knows.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Jan Drew - 26 Aug 2008 07:05 GMT >>Their name is Legion. Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. Famous for the *gang*.
Peter Bowditch - 26 Aug 2008 15:03 GMT >>>Their name is Legion. > >Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. >Famous for the *gang*. 1) I did not write it, as should be obvious from the chevrons in front of it.
2) Didn't you recognise a quotation from the Bible? Are you saying that quoting the Bible is a diversion? Does your pastor know that you reject the Word as just being a diversion?
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 27 Aug 2008 05:47 GMT > "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote: >>>Their name is Legion. > > Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. > Famous for the *gang*. Peter Bowditch - 28 Aug 2008 03:32 GMT >> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote: >>>>Their name is Legion. >> >> Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. >> Famous for the *gang*. Why did you snip my comments about the Bible, Jan? Are you ashamed of the miracles of Jesus?
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 29 Aug 2008 04:35 GMT > "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote: >>>Their name is Legion. > > Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. > Famous for the *gang*. Peter Bowditch - 29 Aug 2008 08:12 GMT >> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote: >>>>Their name is Legion. >> >> Is not the subject. It is just another diversion from the subject. >> Famous for the *gang*. You're repeating yourself, Jan.
Still snipping and calling Bible references "diversion", I see. Is this because you think that the Bible is meaningless?
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
vernono - 23 Aug 2008 22:58 GMT >>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>>FACT is there are many. >> >> Then you should be able to name at least three. > > Their name is Legion.
:>)
> | The brighter the stupid burns, the more | > | chance that someone will see the light. | > +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ D. C. Sessions - 24 Aug 2008 15:51 GMT >>>>As I have long posted it is not necessary to name the toxins. >>>>FACT is there are many. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > :>) Alas, I don't think Biblical references go over very well here.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
David Wright - 23 Aug 2008 19:21 GMT >> > Do you have proof to this ridiculous claim that Generation Rescue is >> > making any money by promoting chelation? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >There is always a benefit in cleansing the body of toxins, Even for >healthy people. Well, first off, you'd have to show that "toxins" are actually being removed, and in sigificant amounts.
Beyond that, however, you'd also have to show that the treatment isn't also doing more harm than good.
That's the trouble with, e.g., the chelation whackos. They're so fixated on their ideas about "removing toxins" that they completely lose sight of the possibility that the treatment might also be doing harm by removing things that are *not* toxins. Like, say, calcium.
It's similar to the anti-vax nutballs who have managed to convince themselves that vaccine-preventable diseases are harmless. John Scudamore is a perfect example. He didn't die from measles, therefore nobody does.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net &
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