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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / July 2008

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Meet Fake "skeptic" David Gorski ...THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO" & SNAKE-OIL VIGILANTE

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Ilena Rose - 22 Jul 2008 17:49 GMT
From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
http://ilenarose.blogspot.com

David Gorski is another Snake-oil Vigilante Vaccination Propagandist
... great expose on his perfidy.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm#David-Gorski

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/david-gorski-md.html

DAVID GORSKI, M.D.: THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO"

Gorskiorac_1By J.B. Handley

What if you wrote a blog under a pseudonym-- “ORAC” --an acronym for
an online programming language and the name of a wayward computer in
an old BBC sci-fi series?

What if you also blogged as “SoCalGal” and pretended to be a woman?

What if you proudly declared to the world, “My recreation of choice
most evenings these days is to blog. It truly is my hobby”?

Then you would be David Gorski M.D, the Worldwide w.nker of Woo (he
uses the term “woo” to refer to what he believes is pseudoscience), an
annoying blogger who also happens to be a surgeon.

Mr. Gorski has become a bit of a thorn in the side of our community,
if only because his blog is widely read and quoted by others. Consider
a recent post from Mr. Gorski regarding the recent AutismOne
conference:

“If you want to know the difference between science and pseudoscience,
the AutismOne conference is a great example. In science, evidence and
experimentation rule. Scientists are always looking for ways to poke
holes in the prevailing hypotheses. True, we scientists don't always
live up to that ideal, and some of us may be too comfortable, but
nonetheless the real way to glory in science is to shoot down an
accepted hypothesis and replace it with one of your own--all through
evidence of course. No one ever won a Nobel Prize for incrementally
supporting the existing paradigm. In pseudoscience, on the other hand,
we see people safely wrapped in a cocoon of their own groupthink,
blissfully oblivious to contradicting evidence and not caring that not
only are the scientific consensus and multiple large, well-designed
epidemiological studies against them but that no one on "their" side
has been able to produce any scientifically compelling evidence to
support the vaccine hypothesis. Instead we get the Geiers and their
incompetent epidemiology or Dr. Laura Hewitson and her poorly designed
monkey studies, along with glaring conflicts of interest.”

Mr. Gorski’s blog, Respectful Insolence, is anything but. His putdowns
and demeaning language aimed at our community (and many of his
colleagues) are rampant. And, so, in the spirit of Mr. Gorski’s novel
use of the word “respectful”, I insolently offer up:

A DOZEN REASONS TO RESPECTFULLY HATE DAVID GORSKI, M.D.:

1. He lives in a very cheap glass house

Mr. Gorski writes proudly, “As far as I've yet been able to ascertain,
I'm the only academic surgeon with R01 funding in the world with an
active -- and, even more shockingly, even a somewhat popular -- blog.”

The obvious question that he never asks is, “Why don’t any of my peers
spend loads of their time publicly bashing other scientists?” The
answer to that question would be, “Because most research scientists
are not idiots who place ego gratification through reader adulation
above professional conduct.”

2. He is a nobody in the science world

I could care less about Mr. Gorski or his career. I’m sure he has
worked hard to get where he is. But, relatively speaking, Mr. Gorski
is a nobody. He’s an “Assistant Professor.”

When Bill Walton criticizes NBA players, he annoys some, but the man
is highly accomplished in his field, so people listen and respect his
point of view. Mr. Gorski’s only claim to fame is that he blogs
frequently enough to be high in the search rankings.

Mr. Gorski is very proud of himself. He writes: “I got into the
University of Michigan Medical School, which got around 3,000
applications every year for around 180 positions.”

Wow!!

3. He’s a complete w.nker

Some people are just such tool jobs they should probably not do a lot
of public blogging. Don’t take my word for it, just consider this gem
from Mr. Gorski:

“[In College] I was then, as I am now, pretty geeky and had only a
relatively small circle of friends. I rarely ‘partied.’”

This is the equivalent of John Candy mentioning in Stripes, “Some of
you may not have noticed I have a bit of a weight problem.”

Geeky? Really? With that stunning visage looking like the love child
of Lurch and Sam the Eagle, I figured you ruled the school.

4. He is a crazy daredevil

This one really bowled me over:

“So insane was I that one year I took 17 credits in the fall semester,
all but 3 of which were hard-core science classes, including graduate
level biochemistry, and then did the same thing again the next
semester.”

No! NO!!  You are a MADMAN!!

5. He often speaks in the third person

Why do people speak in the third person? Mr. Gorski not only does it,
but he speaks in third person pseudonym:

“You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Orac”

Oh, no, run!! Here comes Orac!!

6. He dismisses any scientists who consider the vaccine-autism
connection

This is a classic knee-jerk of the mainstream health establishment
when combating the growing evidence of a vaccine-autism connection:
paint any scientist who entertains the notion of a connection between
vaccines and autism as a crank. Consider his “respectful” comment
regarding Dr. Hewitson, a member of the recent vaccine-monkey study
discussed at IMFAR:

“Unfortunately, Dr. Hewitson wouldn't be the first researcher whose
personal brush with autism led her down the path of questionable
science; I hope she doesn't descent too far into
antivaccination-related research to get out before doing permanent
damage to her career.”

It’s interesting to contrast Mr. Gorski’s comments with those of Dr.
Bernadine Healy, a graduate of Harvard University, Harvard Medical
School, former CEO of the Red Cross, and former President of the
National Institutes of Health:

"There is a completely expressed concern that they [mainstream
scientists] don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis
could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring
people. First of all, I think the public’s smarter than that. The
public values vaccines. But more importantly, I don’t think you should
ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you’re afraid
of what it might show."

It’s worth pointing out that Dr. Healy does not blog under a pseudonym
nor has she actively called out any specific researchers to accuse
them of being “cranks.”

7. He knows Hannah Poling better than her Dad (a doctor) does

When the Hannah Poling case hit the news, Mr. Gorski was quick to
support many of the talking points the other side used to try to
minimize the impact of the court’s decision. It’s interesting to
compare Mr. Gorski’s comments with those of Jon Poling, Hannah’s
father- a practicing neurologist.

Mr. Gorski writes:

“Mitochondrial disorders of the sort suffered by Hannah are genetic in
nature and rare, an estimated 5.7 individuals per 100,000
worldwide…the subset of these disorders that cause autism-like
symptoms is even more rare.”

But, Dr. Poling, a neurologist, says:

“No one knows if Hannah’s mitochondrial dysfunction existed before
receiving vaccines.”

Mr. Gorski writes:

“…what was really diagnosed was a regressive encephalopathy that had
some features of ASD…The bottom line is that it is fever from any
source, be it a vaccine reaction or, more commonly, an infection that
can exacerbate mitochondrial disorders and provoke encephalopathy.
Moreover, because of the confounding factor of multiple ear
infections, it's not 100% clear that her vaccinations even caused her
regression”

But, Dr. Poling says:

“Our daughter, Hannah, developed normally until receiving nine
vaccines at once. She immediately developed a fever and
encephalopathy, deteriorating into what was diagnosed, based on the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or D.S.M. IV,
as autism.”

Mr. Gorski writes:

“…mutations in the same gene that Hannah had a mutation in are
incredibly rare…it is very likely that the reason the Poling case was
dropped as a test case from the Autism Omnibus is because it is so
unusual and atypical.”

But, Dr. Poling says:

“How many Hannah Polings are out there?  The short answer is that
nobody knows.  However, there is emerging data to suggest that she is
not alone. Dr. Shoffner will be presenting his experience with 37
patients with combined autism and mitochondrial dysfunction at the AAN
meeting in Chicago this April. 65% of his referrals are positive for
mitochondrial dysfunction.  Of course, his yield is subject to
referral bias as a mito expert, so the prevalence of mitochondrial
dysfunction in Autism is surely less than 65%. The best estimate to
date of the prevalence of mitochondrial dysfunction in autistic
patients comes from Oliviera et al. in a population of 120, 5 of 69
(or 7.2%) showed mitochondrial dysfunction.  If this is generalized to
the US estimate of 1 million patients with ASDs, then the number of
kids like Hannah could be 72,000!  Isn’t this worth further study?”

Mr. Gorski Says:

“It is also known that children with mitochondrial disorders are prone
to develop an encephalopathy in response to stress or fever that can
cause them to regress. The source of this stress is often an
infection, such as a cold or normal childhood illness, that results in
a fever. The reason is that the mitochondria are the "batteries" or
energy sources of the cell, and mitochondrial diseases can lead a
child to be "energy challenged," so to speak.

But, government attorneys and scientists conceded in the Hannah Poling
case that the cause of her encephalopathy was:
“…underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, exacerbated by vaccine-induced
fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.”

8. He thinks our kids spontaneously recover

“Spontaneous Recovery” has been a semantic trick used by the
mainstream to explain why some of our kids recover, despite the fact
that it means absolutely nothing. “Spontaneous” does not describe what
happened, biologically, to allow a child to go from severely impaired
to normal. It shows an extreme lack of medical curiosity.

Mr. Gorski subscribes to the “Spontaneous Recovery” theory to explain
our recovered kids. I pressed him on this issue in private emails,
asking him how, as a physician, he can ignore the stories of formerly
diagnosed children now living normally? His response was that it is,
“very easy to be fooled, particularly in the cases of mild ASD.”  Mr.
Gorski’s science that supports the position of spontaneous recovery is
a sole study titled Diagnostic stability in very young children with
autism spectrum disorders. The study, featuring all of 77 children,
looks at diagnosis of all ASD labels over time. Take a read for
yourself.

Mr. Gorski’s response to what he contends is “pseudoscience”
is…pseudoscience.

9. Solely citing epidemiology, he says the vaccine-autism debate is
over

Mr. Gorski often writes of the “…science failing to find a link
between vaccines and autism.”

Mr. Gorski uses many of the tricks of the mainstream in trying to make
it seem like the vaccine-autism debate is over. In order to do this
successfully, you have to ignore some ugly truths:

- All studies conducted have been done by conflicted parties
- Most studies have only considered thimerosal levels in vaccines, and
then only compared kids who received more thimerosal versus those who
received less
- No studies have ever considered children who received the entire
vaccine load versus those who received none

Consider a comment from British Epidemiologist Geoffrey Rose, which
would support the folly of solely analyzing vaccinated children:

“Imagine, Rose suggested, if everyone smoked a pack of cigarettes
every day. Any study trying to link cigarette smoking to lung cancer
‘would lead us to conclude that lung cancer was a genetic
disease…since if everyone is exposed to the necessary agent, then the
distribution of cases is wholly determined by individual
susceptibility.’”

Or, this commentary on epidemiology from the New England Journal of
Medicine:

“A common feature of epidemiological data is that they are almost
certain to be biased, of doubtful quality, or incomplete…Problems do
not disappear even if one has flawless data, since the statistical
associations in almost any nontrivial set of observations are subject
to many interpretations. This ambiguity exists because of the
difficulty of sorting out causes, effects, concomitant variables, and
random fluctuations when the causes are multiple or diffuse….Even when
the data are generally accepted as accurate, there is much room for
individual judgment, and the considered conclusions of the
investigators in these matters determine what they will label cause.”

So despite holding other scientist to the highest standards, Mr.
Gorski will gorge on narrowly-constructed, ratshit epidemiology funded
by the CDC to close the case on vaccines and autism?

10. He thinks we should be more careful when we vaccinate monkeys

Mr. Gorski was quick out of the blocks to criticize the emerging
results from a study that vaccinated monkeys on the US vaccine
schedule and compared them to unvaccinated monkeys. In fact, he seems
to be developing an entirely new theory about why the vaccinated
monkeys appear to be so sick. He writes:

“How long is the life expectancy and time to maturity of these
monkeys? In other words, were the investigators scaling down the time
between injections proportionally to the difference in time to
maturity between humans and these monkeys? That could end up being a
lot of shots in a short period of time. So I looked it up. Rhesus
Macaque monkeys live around 25 years and males reach sexual maturity
by around four years of age, approximately 1/4 of the time it takes
humans males to reach sexual maturity. That means, if I interpret
correctly the methodology claiming to "adjust for age" that these
monkeys could have received a lot of shots in a really short period of
time.”

Did he just say that “a lot of shots in a really short period of time”
could cause a problem?

Boy, that sounds familiar.

Thanks for looking out for the monkeys, Dr. Gorski, don’t mind the
several million kids over here who got “a lot of shots in a really
short period of time” and are now completely f.cked up. The CDC’s
epidemiologist, who now works for Glaxo Smith Kline in the vaccine
division, says they there is no link based on his “well designed”
study comparing kids who got a lot of mercury with those who got quite
a bit. You should feel like you have this all figured out.

11. He’s not a parent

While hard to believe based on Mr. Gorski’s stunning looks,
confessions of being “geeky” in college and blogging as his only hobby
(what’d he do before blogs?) – Mr. Gorski has yet to procreate.

This means Mr. Gorski’s exposure to autistic children, schools
bursting with special needs kids, and parents in every community
lamenting developmental challenges in their kids is non-existent. I
highly doubt he has any friends who went to the doctor for a “well
baby” visit and returned with a child descending into autism.

12. He’s got it backwards

Mr. Gorski writes:

”The one good thing is that the point of graduate school in sciences
is more to teach you how to think and how to apply the scientific
method. Science changes so rapidly that the information we had to
learn was not as important as learning how to teach ourselves, read
the scientific literature, and apply it to our research.”

Mr. Gorski does not live up to the lofty standards he has set for
himself or his colleagues, many of whom he publicly berates and
humiliates. As an individual, he is a nobody, which is why he blogs
under a pseudonym.

The reason Mr. Gorski drives us nuts is because he selectively applies
his scientific standards to anything that supports his position—a
common behavior of the mainstream health establishment. He reminds us
of our pediatricians who told us we were crazy.

In Mr. Gorski’s world, highly flawed epidemiology gets a hall pass but
anybody or anything that supports a connection between vaccines and
autism is quackery written by cranks. Ask him to apply his high
standards to the CDC’s “science” and he won’t do it.

Claude Bernard, in An Introduction to Experimental Medicine, wrote:

“It is better to know nothing, than to keep in mind fixed ideas based
on theories whose confirmation we constantly seek, neglecting
meanwhile everything that fails to agree with it.”

Dr Bernandine Healy has been imploring her colleagues to open their
minds to the possibilities of what our community is saying. The
Worldwide w.nker of Woo, David Gorski, would be well served to listen.

JB Handley is Editor at Large for Age of Autism and co-founder of
Generation Rescue.

in JB Handley | Permalink

Digg This | Save to del.icio.us
Mark Probert - 22 Jul 2008 22:30 GMT
> From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Gorskiorac_1By J.B. Handley

Ilena, I am, frankly, surprised at you. When you previously posted
this dizzying diarrhea-tribe from net bully and cyber-squatter J. B.
Handley, I provided you with proof that he is cyber-squatting on a URL
with Orac's name. You had been lambasiting Coleah about stealing, i.e.
cyber-squatting, on your name.

Now, if it is wrong for Coleah, it must be equally wrong for J. Bully
Handley.

Don't you agree?
Jan Drew - 23 Jul 2008 01:59 GMT
"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e76086b4-2953-4dec-8b74-

[   ]

UDP/OFF.  Hello Marcia.

efe273981143@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 22, 12:49 pm, Ilena Rose <B...@mundo.com> wrote:

> From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
[quoted text clipped - 381 lines]
>
> Digg This | Save to del.icio.us

>>Ilena,

Is not the subject.
David Gorski (aka) Orac--(who LIES for you) is the subject.
Citizen Jimserac - 26 Jul 2008 23:42 GMT
> > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Ilena, I am, frankly, surprised at you. When you previously posted

NO MARK, WE ARE SURPRISED AT >>> YOU <<<<!!!!

You purport to be concerned about the health of people and, in
particular children, on the matter of vaccines.
And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs,
you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum.

As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows,
the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money
influencing research has been reported - the most recent being
unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who
have a connection with research.

Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN,
BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"??

Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK??

You do see that THERE IS NO DEFENSE OF SUCH A POSITION
AND therefore, spare yourself the bother of the usual innuendo and
insults - you position and support of this kind of system of
"medicine" is indefensible.

Do you have the courage to admit it?

Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 08:50 GMT
>> > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>You purport to be concerned about the health of people

Like children suffering from vaccine preventable disease?  Like
recently in Antwerp, Belgium, were they recently had an outbreak of
measles. It all traced back to one homeopath, who had convinced a lot
people not to vaccinate.

> and, in particular children, on the matter of vaccines.
>And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs,
>you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum.

Uhm, David Gorski is pro-vaccine, so he's in the camp of people who
want to avoid injury and death of children. What's your problem with
that? Do you hate children?

>As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows,
>the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money
>influencing research has been reported

Money influencing research: you mean Dr. Wakefield, who was paid by
the Geiers and who also had great personal financial interest in
scaring people away from the 2 shot MMR vaccine? Yes, that is good
example of bad or even fraudulent research due to money involved.

> - the most recent being
>unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who
>have a connection with research.
>
>Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN,
>BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"??

Which deaths are we ignoring? Specifics please.

>Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK??
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Citizen Jimserac
Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 12:52 GMT
MARTIN!!!!!

Wow, I see from your profile that you have
made NO POSTINGS since June 12.

And you've decided to answer one of the posts
from little old MOI!!!

I am pleased and humbled by the attention.

I knew you were secretly hoping to be
admitted to the fan club but, alas,
this will not happen until you
ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE
EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES.

The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD
is important and we cannot allow the vaccination
industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives
or induce paralysis or other bad side effects
in order to sell their vaccines.

Don't you agree??

Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 13:55 GMT
>MARTIN!!!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>I am pleased and humbled by the attention.

Thank you for showing I rightly suspected you're an attentionwhore.

>I knew you were secretly hoping to be
>admitted to the fan club but, alas,
>this will not happen until you
>ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE
>EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES.

I'm not trying to get into *your* fanclub. I've been trying for years
now to get into that club were they pay you to post pro-scientific
medicine messages. You  know, the Rockefeller kabal, the Illuminati,
the NWO, those clubs. They're very well hidden apparently. The other
side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by
Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out.

>The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD
>is important and we cannot allow the vaccination
>industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives

Which lives? I already asked you to provide specifics, but since you
didn't, I can only assume you can't, so that leaves possible
side-effects only.
And since not vaccinating will cause a lot of death and suffering, you
should avoid trying to claim the moral highground.

>or induce paralysis or other bad side effects in order to sell their vaccines.
>
>Don't you agree??

I agree totally. Hurting people to make a profit is unacceptable. But
since this is not what is going on with vaccines or what matters for
the choice to vaccinate or not, why do you bring it up?

>Citizen Jimserac
Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 15:21 GMT
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by
> Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out.

The Rockefeller kabal and the Iluminati???

OK ... bye bye Martin.

Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 22:13 GMT
>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac
>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
>Citizen Jimserac

You have no sense of humor, or you're not aware of the ridiculous
accusations that some alt-med people (notably PeterB) have made
against me and others. PeterB may not have mentioned the Illuminati or
the Rockefellers, that is more Carole's cup of tea, but he certainly
accused me of getting paid by Big Pharma to post here(while he himself
is on the payroll of Big Supplement).
Citizen Jimserac - 28 Jul 2008 00:30 GMT
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:21:53 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> accused me of getting paid by Big Pharma to post here(while he himself
> is on the payroll of Big Supplement).

OK I rescind the bye bye.

Now, I've got to check the mail and see if the check
has come.

Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 18:36 GMT
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by
> Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out.

And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he
spreads around.

> >The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD
> >is important and we cannot allow the vaccination
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> since this is not what is going on with vaccines or what matters for
> the choice to vaccinate or not, why do you bring it up?
Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 19:56 GMT
> And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he
> spreads around.

Now it is indeed a COINCIDENCE that
"Martin" said something similar.

So you REALLY think I'm being PAID
for my comments??

Do you think the Rockerfellers and the Illuminati
are behind this too?

Citizen Jimserac
Richard Schultz - 27 Jul 2008 20:31 GMT
: So you REALLY think I'm being PAID for my comments??

It's an optimistic way of looking at it -- people who think "no one could
possibly be that stupid" will try to find an alternative explanation for your
behavior, and one obvious one is that you are being paid by Big Pharma to
make "alternative medicine" look bad.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Citizen Jimserac - 28 Jul 2008 00:32 GMT
> In article <e3c8d942-fc08-4ac8-a780-d467e7e30...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -----

Doc Schultz!!!!

Gee, All I need now is some insult from Peter Bowditch
and I'll feel right at home again.

Citizen Jimserac
Citizen Jimserac - 29 Jul 2008 11:35 GMT
> In article <e3c8d942-fc08-4ac8-a780-d467e7e30...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> -----
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."

You know I was thinking the exactly same about your
uninformed Acupuncture opinions!

Citizen Jimserac
Peter Bowditch - 27 Jul 2008 22:57 GMT
>> And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he
>> spreads around.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Citizen Jimserac

I don't expect you to know the facts about this, because obviously the
Illuminati keep our^H^H^H^their secrets secret. The Illuminati and the
Rockefellers aren't behind YOU.

Here is what John Hammell of International Advocates for Health
Freedom had to say about people like me and the other rational
thinkers around here. Note how well he puts the argument.

We "are in constant communication with the FDA, and the FDA's
international counterparts which are all networked via the UN's
International Council on Drug Regulating Authorities- which is run
directly by the Council- the Illuminati- the small group who seek
total control of our lives and who are pushing very hard now to impose
a dictatorial world government on us via the UN, whose chief is Satan,
the father of lies- who is making a major bid right now to control all
of our souls as he seeks to force us into a microchipped,
psychocivilized society under mind control".

http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20000917.html

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Citizen Jimserac - 29 Jul 2008 11:40 GMT
> CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Illuminati keep our^H^H^H^their secrets secret. The Illuminati and the
> Rockefellers aren't behind YOU.

Oh thank GOODNESS!
What a relief to be informed of this!!

> Here is what John Hammell of International Advocates for Health
> Freedom had to say about people like me and the other rational
> thinkers around here. Note how well he puts the argument.

(Did he say "rational" thinkers?? Hmmmmmm.)

> We "are in constant communication with the FDA, and the FDA's
> international counterparts which are all networked via the UN's
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20000917.html

Oh I knew it!!!
Peter and that Doc Shultz must be in on this too!!
Conspiracies everywhere!!

Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 18:35 GMT
> MARTIN!!!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE
> EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES.

There are no deaths that are "excused" at all. Every deathis taken
seriously and carefully reviewed three times a year at the ACIP
meetings and at the CDC.

Why do you raise these strawmen? Is it because you lack facts and
science to support your anti-vaccination lies?

> The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD
> is important and we cannot allow the vaccination
> industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives

See, there is the strawman. It seems to be your only method of
argument.

> or induce paralysis or other bad side effects
> in order to sell their vaccines.
>
> Don't you agree??

No, asswipe, I do not agree with your strawman.
Jan Drew - 28 Jul 2008 02:26 GMT
On Jul 27, 7:52 am, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 3:50 am, Martin <idontwan...@spam.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE
> EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES.

There are no deaths that are "excused" at all.

Really?  How about the death of Jessi Gelsinger?

Was that excused by Dr Wilson who *MURDERED* him, and remains on staff?
Why were YOU, Mark S Probert *silent*?

Every deathis taken
seriously and carefully reviewed three times a year at the ACIP
meetings and at the CDC.

Oh, Yeah, organized medicine with vested interest and fraud + lies.

<snip>

No, asswipe

Forgot again today to read Torah.
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 17:40 GMT
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:42:59 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Money influencing research: you mean Dr. Wakefield, who was paid by
> the Geiers

Incorrect. Wakers was paid by the litigant's lawyers and has a patent
on a single shot measles vaccine. Confusing Geiers and Liars (a/k/a
vaccine lawyers) is understandable since they rhyme.

and who also had great personal financial interest in
> scaring people away from the 2 shot MMR vaccine? Yes, that is good
> example of bad or even fraudulent research due to money involved.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 17:30 GMT
> > > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs,
> you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum.

You are so pathetic that you do not have the right to lick his a.s.
David Gorski is way mnore honorable than YOU or net-bully and cyber-
squatter J. Bully Handley.

> As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows,
> the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money
> influencing research has been reported - the most recent being
> unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who
> have a connection with research.

Which has nothing to do with David Gorski.

> Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN,
> BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"??

No, because scientist who use facts prove it is rare. Much rarer than
the adverse effects of diseases that vaccines are designed to
prevent.

> Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK??

No, and you are raising strawmen.

> You do see that THERE IS NO DEFENSE OF SUCH A POSITION
> AND therefore, spare yourself the bother of the usual innuendo and
> insults - you position and support of this kind of system of
> "medicine" is indefensible.

Wrong. My position is FULLY DEFENSIBLE because it rests on facts and
truth, not inuendo and paranoia.

> Do you have the courage to admit it?

Do you have a brain to understand it?

As for courage, mine is well documented.
Jan Drew - 28 Jul 2008 02:31 GMT
"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote:  >

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/david-gorski-md.html

> > > DAVID GORSKI, M.D.: THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO"
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs,
> you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum.

You are so pathetic that you do not have the right to lick his a.s.
David Gorski is way mnore honorable than YOU

Actually, he is a lair and lies for you.


> Do you have the courage to admit it?

No answer is noted.
george conklin - 23 Jul 2008 01:36 GMT
> 11. He's not a parent
>
> While hard to believe based on Mr. Gorski's stunning looks,
> confessions of being "geeky" in college and blogging as his only hobby
> (what'd he do before blogs?) - Mr. Gorski has yet to procreate.

  Are you sure his not also a virgin? -:)

All this is meaningless.
JOHN - 27 Jul 2008 17:25 GMT
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/orac_h.html
D. C. Sessions - 27 Jul 2008 19:15 GMT
> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/orac_h.html

Things aren't going well on the antivaccination front, are they?
I mean, here you are with Jenny McCarthy getting all kinds of
attention and undercutting  your message with, "We're not
anti-vaccine."  Then there's the Autism Omnibus hearings
where the plaintiffs have withdrawn most of their witnesses
(Wakefield, Geier, etc.) and the ones they kept were
backpedalling furiously on the stand.

Now Jay Gordon is over at Orac's blog and getting chewed up
and *he's* backpedalling when he's not ducking questions.

Well, I suppose it's your turn to go over and offer him some
support.  Maybe the two of you can do more together than you've
been able to do separately.  It's got to be better than your
desperate attempts to go /ad hominem/ on Dr. Gorski.

| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
 
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