Medical Forum / General / Alternative / July 2008
Meet Fake "skeptic" David Gorski ...THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO" & SNAKE-OIL VIGILANTE
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Ilena Rose - 22 Jul 2008 17:49 GMT From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal: http://ilenarose.blogspot.com
David Gorski is another Snake-oil Vigilante Vaccination Propagandist ... great expose on his perfidy. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm#David-Gorski
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/david-gorski-md.html
DAVID GORSKI, M.D.: THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO"
Gorskiorac_1By J.B. Handley
What if you wrote a blog under a pseudonym-- ORAC --an acronym for an online programming language and the name of a wayward computer in an old BBC sci-fi series?
What if you also blogged as SoCalGal and pretended to be a woman?
What if you proudly declared to the world, My recreation of choice most evenings these days is to blog. It truly is my hobby?
Then you would be David Gorski M.D, the Worldwide w.nker of Woo (he uses the term woo to refer to what he believes is pseudoscience), an annoying blogger who also happens to be a surgeon.
Mr. Gorski has become a bit of a thorn in the side of our community, if only because his blog is widely read and quoted by others. Consider a recent post from Mr. Gorski regarding the recent AutismOne conference:
If you want to know the difference between science and pseudoscience, the AutismOne conference is a great example. In science, evidence and experimentation rule. Scientists are always looking for ways to poke holes in the prevailing hypotheses. True, we scientists don't always live up to that ideal, and some of us may be too comfortable, but nonetheless the real way to glory in science is to shoot down an accepted hypothesis and replace it with one of your own--all through evidence of course. No one ever won a Nobel Prize for incrementally supporting the existing paradigm. In pseudoscience, on the other hand, we see people safely wrapped in a cocoon of their own groupthink, blissfully oblivious to contradicting evidence and not caring that not only are the scientific consensus and multiple large, well-designed epidemiological studies against them but that no one on "their" side has been able to produce any scientifically compelling evidence to support the vaccine hypothesis. Instead we get the Geiers and their incompetent epidemiology or Dr. Laura Hewitson and her poorly designed monkey studies, along with glaring conflicts of interest.
Mr. Gorskis blog, Respectful Insolence, is anything but. His putdowns and demeaning language aimed at our community (and many of his colleagues) are rampant. And, so, in the spirit of Mr. Gorskis novel use of the word respectful, I insolently offer up:
A DOZEN REASONS TO RESPECTFULLY HATE DAVID GORSKI, M.D.:
1. He lives in a very cheap glass house
Mr. Gorski writes proudly, As far as I've yet been able to ascertain, I'm the only academic surgeon with R01 funding in the world with an active -- and, even more shockingly, even a somewhat popular -- blog.
The obvious question that he never asks is, Why dont any of my peers spend loads of their time publicly bashing other scientists? The answer to that question would be, Because most research scientists are not idiots who place ego gratification through reader adulation above professional conduct.
2. He is a nobody in the science world
I could care less about Mr. Gorski or his career. Im sure he has worked hard to get where he is. But, relatively speaking, Mr. Gorski is a nobody. Hes an Assistant Professor.
When Bill Walton criticizes NBA players, he annoys some, but the man is highly accomplished in his field, so people listen and respect his point of view. Mr. Gorskis only claim to fame is that he blogs frequently enough to be high in the search rankings.
Mr. Gorski is very proud of himself. He writes: I got into the University of Michigan Medical School, which got around 3,000 applications every year for around 180 positions.
Wow!!
3. Hes a complete w.nker
Some people are just such tool jobs they should probably not do a lot of public blogging. Dont take my word for it, just consider this gem from Mr. Gorski:
[In College] I was then, as I am now, pretty geeky and had only a relatively small circle of friends. I rarely partied.
This is the equivalent of John Candy mentioning in Stripes, Some of you may not have noticed I have a bit of a weight problem.
Geeky? Really? With that stunning visage looking like the love child of Lurch and Sam the Eagle, I figured you ruled the school.
4. He is a crazy daredevil
This one really bowled me over:
So insane was I that one year I took 17 credits in the fall semester, all but 3 of which were hard-core science classes, including graduate level biochemistry, and then did the same thing again the next semester.
No! NO!! You are a MADMAN!!
5. He often speaks in the third person
Why do people speak in the third person? Mr. Gorski not only does it, but he speaks in third person pseudonym:
You don't tug on Superman's cape You don't spit into the wind You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger And you don't mess around with Orac
Oh, no, run!! Here comes Orac!!
6. He dismisses any scientists who consider the vaccine-autism connection
This is a classic knee-jerk of the mainstream health establishment when combating the growing evidence of a vaccine-autism connection: paint any scientist who entertains the notion of a connection between vaccines and autism as a crank. Consider his respectful comment regarding Dr. Hewitson, a member of the recent vaccine-monkey study discussed at IMFAR:
Unfortunately, Dr. Hewitson wouldn't be the first researcher whose personal brush with autism led her down the path of questionable science; I hope she doesn't descent too far into antivaccination-related research to get out before doing permanent damage to her career.
Its interesting to contrast Mr. Gorskis comments with those of Dr. Bernadine Healy, a graduate of Harvard University, Harvard Medical School, former CEO of the Red Cross, and former President of the National Institutes of Health:
"There is a completely expressed concern that they [mainstream scientists] don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people. First of all, I think the publics smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I dont think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because youre afraid of what it might show."
Its worth pointing out that Dr. Healy does not blog under a pseudonym nor has she actively called out any specific researchers to accuse them of being cranks.
7. He knows Hannah Poling better than her Dad (a doctor) does
When the Hannah Poling case hit the news, Mr. Gorski was quick to support many of the talking points the other side used to try to minimize the impact of the courts decision. Its interesting to compare Mr. Gorskis comments with those of Jon Poling, Hannahs father- a practicing neurologist.
Mr. Gorski writes:
Mitochondrial disorders of the sort suffered by Hannah are genetic in nature and rare, an estimated 5.7 individuals per 100,000 worldwide
the subset of these disorders that cause autism-like symptoms is even more rare.
But, Dr. Poling, a neurologist, says:
No one knows if Hannahs mitochondrial dysfunction existed before receiving vaccines.
Mr. Gorski writes:
what was really diagnosed was a regressive encephalopathy that had some features of ASD
The bottom line is that it is fever from any source, be it a vaccine reaction or, more commonly, an infection that can exacerbate mitochondrial disorders and provoke encephalopathy. Moreover, because of the confounding factor of multiple ear infections, it's not 100% clear that her vaccinations even caused her regression
But, Dr. Poling says:
Our daughter, Hannah, developed normally until receiving nine vaccines at once. She immediately developed a fever and encephalopathy, deteriorating into what was diagnosed, based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or D.S.M. IV, as autism.
Mr. Gorski writes:
mutations in the same gene that Hannah had a mutation in are incredibly rare
it is very likely that the reason the Poling case was dropped as a test case from the Autism Omnibus is because it is so unusual and atypical.
But, Dr. Poling says:
How many Hannah Polings are out there? The short answer is that nobody knows. However, there is emerging data to suggest that she is not alone. Dr. Shoffner will be presenting his experience with 37 patients with combined autism and mitochondrial dysfunction at the AAN meeting in Chicago this April. 65% of his referrals are positive for mitochondrial dysfunction. Of course, his yield is subject to referral bias as a mito expert, so the prevalence of mitochondrial dysfunction in Autism is surely less than 65%. The best estimate to date of the prevalence of mitochondrial dysfunction in autistic patients comes from Oliviera et al. in a population of 120, 5 of 69 (or 7.2%) showed mitochondrial dysfunction. If this is generalized to the US estimate of 1 million patients with ASDs, then the number of kids like Hannah could be 72,000! Isnt this worth further study?
Mr. Gorski Says:
It is also known that children with mitochondrial disorders are prone to develop an encephalopathy in response to stress or fever that can cause them to regress. The source of this stress is often an infection, such as a cold or normal childhood illness, that results in a fever. The reason is that the mitochondria are the "batteries" or energy sources of the cell, and mitochondrial diseases can lead a child to be "energy challenged," so to speak.
But, government attorneys and scientists conceded in the Hannah Poling case that the cause of her encephalopathy was:
underlying mitochondrial dysfunction, exacerbated by vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that exceeded metabolic reserves.
8. He thinks our kids spontaneously recover
Spontaneous Recovery has been a semantic trick used by the mainstream to explain why some of our kids recover, despite the fact that it means absolutely nothing. Spontaneous does not describe what happened, biologically, to allow a child to go from severely impaired to normal. It shows an extreme lack of medical curiosity.
Mr. Gorski subscribes to the Spontaneous Recovery theory to explain our recovered kids. I pressed him on this issue in private emails, asking him how, as a physician, he can ignore the stories of formerly diagnosed children now living normally? His response was that it is, very easy to be fooled, particularly in the cases of mild ASD. Mr. Gorskis science that supports the position of spontaneous recovery is a sole study titled Diagnostic stability in very young children with autism spectrum disorders. The study, featuring all of 77 children, looks at diagnosis of all ASD labels over time. Take a read for yourself.
Mr. Gorskis response to what he contends is pseudoscience is
pseudoscience.
9. Solely citing epidemiology, he says the vaccine-autism debate is over
Mr. Gorski often writes of the
science failing to find a link between vaccines and autism.
Mr. Gorski uses many of the tricks of the mainstream in trying to make it seem like the vaccine-autism debate is over. In order to do this successfully, you have to ignore some ugly truths:
- All studies conducted have been done by conflicted parties - Most studies have only considered thimerosal levels in vaccines, and then only compared kids who received more thimerosal versus those who received less - No studies have ever considered children who received the entire vaccine load versus those who received none
Consider a comment from British Epidemiologist Geoffrey Rose, which would support the folly of solely analyzing vaccinated children:
Imagine, Rose suggested, if everyone smoked a pack of cigarettes every day. Any study trying to link cigarette smoking to lung cancer would lead us to conclude that lung cancer was a genetic disease
since if everyone is exposed to the necessary agent, then the distribution of cases is wholly determined by individual susceptibility.
Or, this commentary on epidemiology from the New England Journal of Medicine:
A common feature of epidemiological data is that they are almost certain to be biased, of doubtful quality, or incomplete
Problems do not disappear even if one has flawless data, since the statistical associations in almost any nontrivial set of observations are subject to many interpretations. This ambiguity exists because of the difficulty of sorting out causes, effects, concomitant variables, and random fluctuations when the causes are multiple or diffuse
.Even when the data are generally accepted as accurate, there is much room for individual judgment, and the considered conclusions of the investigators in these matters determine what they will label cause.
So despite holding other scientist to the highest standards, Mr. Gorski will gorge on narrowly-constructed, ratshit epidemiology funded by the CDC to close the case on vaccines and autism?
10. He thinks we should be more careful when we vaccinate monkeys
Mr. Gorski was quick out of the blocks to criticize the emerging results from a study that vaccinated monkeys on the US vaccine schedule and compared them to unvaccinated monkeys. In fact, he seems to be developing an entirely new theory about why the vaccinated monkeys appear to be so sick. He writes:
How long is the life expectancy and time to maturity of these monkeys? In other words, were the investigators scaling down the time between injections proportionally to the difference in time to maturity between humans and these monkeys? That could end up being a lot of shots in a short period of time. So I looked it up. Rhesus Macaque monkeys live around 25 years and males reach sexual maturity by around four years of age, approximately 1/4 of the time it takes humans males to reach sexual maturity. That means, if I interpret correctly the methodology claiming to "adjust for age" that these monkeys could have received a lot of shots in a really short period of time.
Did he just say that a lot of shots in a really short period of time could cause a problem?
Boy, that sounds familiar.
Thanks for looking out for the monkeys, Dr. Gorski, dont mind the several million kids over here who got a lot of shots in a really short period of time and are now completely f.cked up. The CDCs epidemiologist, who now works for Glaxo Smith Kline in the vaccine division, says they there is no link based on his well designed study comparing kids who got a lot of mercury with those who got quite a bit. You should feel like you have this all figured out.
11. Hes not a parent
While hard to believe based on Mr. Gorskis stunning looks, confessions of being geeky in college and blogging as his only hobby (whatd he do before blogs?) Mr. Gorski has yet to procreate.
This means Mr. Gorskis exposure to autistic children, schools bursting with special needs kids, and parents in every community lamenting developmental challenges in their kids is non-existent. I highly doubt he has any friends who went to the doctor for a well baby visit and returned with a child descending into autism.
12. Hes got it backwards
Mr. Gorski writes:
The one good thing is that the point of graduate school in sciences is more to teach you how to think and how to apply the scientific method. Science changes so rapidly that the information we had to learn was not as important as learning how to teach ourselves, read the scientific literature, and apply it to our research.
Mr. Gorski does not live up to the lofty standards he has set for himself or his colleagues, many of whom he publicly berates and humiliates. As an individual, he is a nobody, which is why he blogs under a pseudonym.
The reason Mr. Gorski drives us nuts is because he selectively applies his scientific standards to anything that supports his positiona common behavior of the mainstream health establishment. He reminds us of our pediatricians who told us we were crazy.
In Mr. Gorskis world, highly flawed epidemiology gets a hall pass but anybody or anything that supports a connection between vaccines and autism is quackery written by cranks. Ask him to apply his high standards to the CDCs science and he wont do it.
Claude Bernard, in An Introduction to Experimental Medicine, wrote:
It is better to know nothing, than to keep in mind fixed ideas based on theories whose confirmation we constantly seek, neglecting meanwhile everything that fails to agree with it.
Dr Bernandine Healy has been imploring her colleagues to open their minds to the possibilities of what our community is saying. The Worldwide w.nker of Woo, David Gorski, would be well served to listen.
JB Handley is Editor at Large for Age of Autism and co-founder of Generation Rescue.
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Mark Probert - 22 Jul 2008 22:30 GMT > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Gorskiorac_1By J.B. Handley Ilena, I am, frankly, surprised at you. When you previously posted this dizzying diarrhea-tribe from net bully and cyber-squatter J. B. Handley, I provided you with proof that he is cyber-squatting on a URL with Orac's name. You had been lambasiting Coleah about stealing, i.e. cyber-squatting, on your name.
Now, if it is wrong for Coleah, it must be equally wrong for J. Bully Handley.
Don't you agree?
Jan Drew - 23 Jul 2008 01:59 GMT "Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e76086b4-2953-4dec-8b74-
[ ]
UDP/OFF. Hello Marcia.
efe273981143@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com... On Jul 22, 12:49 pm, Ilena Rose <B...@mundo.com> wrote:
> From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal: > http://ilenarose.blogspot.com [quoted text clipped - 381 lines] > > Digg This | Save to del.icio.us
>>Ilena, Is not the subject. David Gorski (aka) Orac--(who LIES for you) is the subject.
Citizen Jimserac - 26 Jul 2008 23:42 GMT > > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ilena, I am, frankly, surprised at you. When you previously posted NO MARK, WE ARE SURPRISED AT >>> YOU <<<<!!!!
You purport to be concerned about the health of people and, in particular children, on the matter of vaccines. And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs, you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum.
As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows, the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money influencing research has been reported - the most recent being unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who have a connection with research.
Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN, BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"??
Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK??
You do see that THERE IS NO DEFENSE OF SUCH A POSITION AND therefore, spare yourself the bother of the usual innuendo and insults - you position and support of this kind of system of "medicine" is indefensible.
Do you have the courage to admit it?
Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 08:50 GMT >> > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >You purport to be concerned about the health of people Like children suffering from vaccine preventable disease? Like recently in Antwerp, Belgium, were they recently had an outbreak of measles. It all traced back to one homeopath, who had convinced a lot people not to vaccinate.
> and, in particular children, on the matter of vaccines. >And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs, >you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum. Uhm, David Gorski is pro-vaccine, so he's in the camp of people who want to avoid injury and death of children. What's your problem with that? Do you hate children?
>As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows, >the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money >influencing research has been reported Money influencing research: you mean Dr. Wakefield, who was paid by the Geiers and who also had great personal financial interest in scaring people away from the 2 shot MMR vaccine? Yes, that is good example of bad or even fraudulent research due to money involved.
> - the most recent being >unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who >have a connection with research. > >Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN, >BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"?? Which deaths are we ignoring? Specifics please.
>Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK?? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 12:52 GMT MARTIN!!!!!
Wow, I see from your profile that you have made NO POSTINGS since June 12.
And you've decided to answer one of the posts from little old MOI!!!
I am pleased and humbled by the attention.
I knew you were secretly hoping to be admitted to the fan club but, alas, this will not happen until you ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES.
The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD is important and we cannot allow the vaccination industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives or induce paralysis or other bad side effects in order to sell their vaccines.
Don't you agree??
Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 13:55 GMT >MARTIN!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I am pleased and humbled by the attention. Thank you for showing I rightly suspected you're an attentionwhore.
>I knew you were secretly hoping to be >admitted to the fan club but, alas, >this will not happen until you >ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE >EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES. I'm not trying to get into *your* fanclub. I've been trying for years now to get into that club were they pay you to post pro-scientific medicine messages. You know, the Rockefeller kabal, the Illuminati, the NWO, those clubs. They're very well hidden apparently. The other side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out.
>The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD >is important and we cannot allow the vaccination >industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives Which lives? I already asked you to provide specifics, but since you didn't, I can only assume you can't, so that leaves possible side-effects only. And since not vaccinating will cause a lot of death and suffering, you should avoid trying to claim the moral highground.
>or induce paralysis or other bad side effects in order to sell their vaccines. > >Don't you agree?? I agree totally. Hurting people to make a profit is unacceptable. But since this is not what is going on with vaccines or what matters for the choice to vaccinate or not, why do you bring it up?
>Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 15:21 GMT > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by > Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out. The Rockefeller kabal and the Iluminati???
OK ... bye bye Martin.
Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 27 Jul 2008 22:13 GMT >> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Citizen Jimserac You have no sense of humor, or you're not aware of the ridiculous accusations that some alt-med people (notably PeterB) have made against me and others. PeterB may not have mentioned the Illuminati or the Rockefellers, that is more Carole's cup of tea, but he certainly accused me of getting paid by Big Pharma to post here(while he himself is on the payroll of Big Supplement).
Citizen Jimserac - 28 Jul 2008 00:30 GMT > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:21:53 -0700 (PDT), CitizenJimserac > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > accused me of getting paid by Big Pharma to post here(while he himself > is on the payroll of Big Supplement). OK I rescind the bye bye.
Now, I've got to check the mail and see if the check has come.
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 18:36 GMT > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 04:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > side should be easier to find. After all, PeterB is getting paid by > Big Supplements, he should be able to help me out. And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he spreads around.
> >The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD > >is important and we cannot allow the vaccination [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > since this is not what is going on with vaccines or what matters for > the choice to vaccinate or not, why do you bring it up? Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jul 2008 19:56 GMT > And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he > spreads around. Now it is indeed a COINCIDENCE that "Martin" said something similar.
So you REALLY think I'm being PAID for my comments??
Do you think the Rockerfellers and the Illuminati are behind this too?
Citizen Jimserac
Richard Schultz - 27 Jul 2008 20:31 GMT : So you REALLY think I'm being PAID for my comments?? It's an optimistic way of looking at it -- people who think "no one could possibly be that stupid" will try to find an alternative explanation for your behavior, and one obvious one is that you are being paid by Big Pharma to make "alternative medicine" look bad.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Citizen Jimserac - 28 Jul 2008 00:32 GMT > In article <e3c8d942-fc08-4ac8-a780-d467e7e30...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ----- Doc Schultz!!!!
Gee, All I need now is some insult from Peter Bowditch and I'll feel right at home again.
Citizen Jimserac
Citizen Jimserac - 29 Jul 2008 11:35 GMT > In article <e3c8d942-fc08-4ac8-a780-d467e7e30...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ----- > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." You know I was thinking the exactly same about your uninformed Acupuncture opinions!
Citizen Jimserac
Peter Bowditch - 27 Jul 2008 22:57 GMT >> And Citizen Jimmy is being paid by BigFarma for all the manure he >> spreads around. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Citizen Jimserac I don't expect you to know the facts about this, because obviously the Illuminati keep our^H^H^H^their secrets secret. The Illuminati and the Rockefellers aren't behind YOU.
Here is what John Hammell of International Advocates for Health Freedom had to say about people like me and the other rational thinkers around here. Note how well he puts the argument.
We "are in constant communication with the FDA, and the FDA's international counterparts which are all networked via the UN's International Council on Drug Regulating Authorities- which is run directly by the Council- the Illuminati- the small group who seek total control of our lives and who are pushing very hard now to impose a dictatorial world government on us via the UN, whose chief is Satan, the father of lies- who is making a major bid right now to control all of our souls as he seeks to force us into a microchipped, psychocivilized society under mind control".
http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20000917.html
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Citizen Jimserac - 29 Jul 2008 11:40 GMT > CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Illuminati keep our^H^H^H^their secrets secret. The Illuminati and the > Rockefellers aren't behind YOU. Oh thank GOODNESS! What a relief to be informed of this!!
> Here is what John Hammell of International Advocates for Health > Freedom had to say about people like me and the other rational > thinkers around here. Note how well he puts the argument. (Did he say "rational" thinkers?? Hmmmmmm.)
> We "are in constant communication with the FDA, and the FDA's > international counterparts which are all networked via the UN's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20000917.html Oh I knew it!!! Peter and that Doc Shultz must be in on this too!! Conspiracies everywhere!!
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 18:35 GMT > MARTIN!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE > EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES. There are no deaths that are "excused" at all. Every deathis taken seriously and carefully reviewed three times a year at the ACIP meetings and at the CDC.
Why do you raise these strawmen? Is it because you lack facts and science to support your anti-vaccination lies?
> The Life of EVERY SINGLE HUMAN - MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD > is important and we cannot allow the vaccination > industry to pretend it is somehow OK to lose a few lives See, there is the strawman. It seems to be your only method of argument.
> or induce paralysis or other bad side effects > in order to sell their vaccines. > > Don't you agree?? No, asswipe, I do not agree with your strawman.
Jan Drew - 28 Jul 2008 02:26 GMT On Jul 27, 7:52 am, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 3:50 am, Martin <idontwan...@spam.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ADMIT THAT THERE NO DEATHS THAT CAN BE > EXCUSED FROM "RARE" REACTIONS TO VACCINES. There are no deaths that are "excused" at all.
Really? How about the death of Jessi Gelsinger?
Was that excused by Dr Wilson who *MURDERED* him, and remains on staff? Why were YOU, Mark S Probert *silent*?
Every deathis taken seriously and carefully reviewed three times a year at the ACIP meetings and at the CDC.
Oh, Yeah, organized medicine with vested interest and fraud + lies.
<snip>
No, asswipe
Forgot again today to read Torah.
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 17:40 GMT > On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:42:59 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Money influencing research: you mean Dr. Wakefield, who was paid by > the Geiers Incorrect. Wakers was paid by the litigant's lawyers and has a patent on a single shot measles vaccine. Confusing Geiers and Liars (a/k/a vaccine lawyers) is understandable since they rhyme.
and who also had great personal financial interest in
> scaring people away from the 2 shot MMR vaccine? Yes, that is good > example of bad or even fraudulent research due to money involved. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 17:30 GMT > > > From Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:http://ilenarose.blogspot.com > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs, > you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum. You are so pathetic that you do not have the right to lick his a.s. David Gorski is way mnore honorable than YOU or net-bully and cyber- squatter J. Bully Handley.
> As everyone, including, I am certain, yourself, now knows, > the most serious exposures of pharmaceutical industry money > influencing research has been reported - the most recent being > unacknowledged receipt of monies to Harvard medical professors who > have a connection with research. Which has nothing to do with David Gorski.
> Are we to believe that it is OK TO IGNORE THE DEATHS OF CHILDREN, > BECAUSE SCUM LIKE GORSKI CLAIM IT IS "RARE"?? No, because scientist who use facts prove it is rare. Much rarer than the adverse effects of diseases that vaccines are designed to prevent.
> Does that MAKE IT SOMEHOW OK?? No, and you are raising strawmen.
> You do see that THERE IS NO DEFENSE OF SUCH A POSITION > AND therefore, spare yourself the bother of the usual innuendo and > insults - you position and support of this kind of system of > "medicine" is indefensible. Wrong. My position is FULLY DEFENSIBLE because it rests on facts and truth, not inuendo and paranoia.
> Do you have the courage to admit it? Do you have a brain to understand it?
As for courage, mine is well documented.
Jan Drew - 28 Jul 2008 02:31 GMT "Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote: >
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/david-gorski-md.html
> > > DAVID GORSKI, M.D.: THE WORLDWIDE w.nker OF "WOO" > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And yet, when some horrible injury or death occurs, > you PERSIST in defending losers such as this Gorski scum. You are so pathetic that you do not have the right to lick his a.s. David Gorski is way mnore honorable than YOU
Actually, he is a lair and lies for you.
> Do you have the courage to admit it? No answer is noted.
george conklin - 23 Jul 2008 01:36 GMT > 11. He's not a parent > > While hard to believe based on Mr. Gorski's stunning looks, > confessions of being "geeky" in college and blogging as his only hobby > (what'd he do before blogs?) - Mr. Gorski has yet to procreate. Are you sure his not also a virgin? -:)
All this is meaningless.
JOHN - 27 Jul 2008 17:25 GMT http://www.whale.to/vaccine/orac_h.html
D. C. Sessions - 27 Jul 2008 19:15 GMT > http://www.whale.to/vaccine/orac_h.html Things aren't going well on the antivaccination front, are they? I mean, here you are with Jenny McCarthy getting all kinds of attention and undercutting your message with, "We're not anti-vaccine." Then there's the Autism Omnibus hearings where the plaintiffs have withdrawn most of their witnesses (Wakefield, Geier, etc.) and the ones they kept were backpedalling furiously on the stand.
Now Jay Gordon is over at Orac's blog and getting chewed up and *he's* backpedalling when he's not ducking questions.
Well, I suppose it's your turn to go over and offer him some support. Maybe the two of you can do more together than you've been able to do separately. It's got to be better than your desperate attempts to go /ad hominem/ on Dr. Gorski.
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+
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