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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / August 2008

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Amanda Peet (and the Snake-oil Vigilantes) ... Vs the Medical Establishment

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Ilena Rose - 22 Jul 2008 17:31 GMT
News from Ilena Rosenthal: Health Lover
http://ilenarose.blogspot.com

I have added a new post about the backlash of Amanda Peet's
propaganda:

Amanda Peet & the Ripple Effect: Actress Intensifies Vaccine Debate,
Rather than Quell It by David Kirby

(Disbarred attorney Mark Probert ... please spare us your ad homs ...
YOU are the one who lost his license to 'practice law' and became a
Vaccination Shill ... David Kirby is a fine journalist and does not
deserve your constant attacks on him ... especially considering who
you are.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/amanda-peet-vsmedical-sci_b_113817.html

I write my Huffington Post blogs in order to spark debate and
commentary from other quarters about what has become - like it or not
- the biggest medical controversy of our time: the potential link
between vaccine ingredients and autism.

In that sense, my last piece, "Amanda Peet vs. the Medical
Establishment," has done its job.

Reaction was predictably swift and furious to this opinion essay - and
that's what blogs are: this is not news reporting.

Many took issue with the title (of all things), not realizing it was a
tongue-in-cheek, somewhat satirical, and deliberately provocative
headline meant to spark the indignant outrage that it obviously did,
(It worked for Jonathan Swift and that New Yorker cartoonist, too).

These critics balk at considering the US President, or Senate health
committee members, or the Chairman of a House science subcommittee, or
appointed members of the federal Interagency Autism Coordinating
Committee, or many others like them, as part of the "medical
establishment."

Fair enough. These are the people who, in a democratic society,
control the medical establishment. They are not part of the
establishment, in that sense, they are above it. They put the "over"
in oversight. As a journalist, I value their opinion. As a citizen, I
cannot imagine what this country would be like without them.

One of the critics was Dr. Steven Novella, academic clinical
neurologist at Yale University School of Medicine and president and
co-founder of the New England Skeptical Society.

In his piece, "Celebrity Smackdown: Amanda Peet vs Jenny McCarthy,"
Dr. Novella refers to me as "that reporter who has made a career out
of spreading misinformation about vaccines and any nonsense he can
think of." In the same breath, he dismisses vaccine-related statements
made by CDC officials because, "they were given in a political and not
purely scientific context."

Dr. Novella takes issue with my characterization of the recent Hannah
Poling case, in which a nine year old girl was compensated by the US
Government for a vaccine injury that lead to a diagnosis of autism.

Now, Hannah's father, Dr. Jon Poling, a respected neurologist and
clinical assistant rofessor, of the Department of Neurology, Medical
College of Georgia, has responded to Dr. Novella, including his,
"criticizing the journalism of Mr. David Kirby."

A copy of Dr. Poling's letter to Dr. Novella is posted at what ABC
News.com called "the popular blog, Age of Autism."

It makes for some good reading, from deep inside the medical
establishment!

PS: Here is a thought meant to spark more discussion: If parents who
do not vaccinate their children are menaces (or parasites) to society,
then what are adults who do not get all the recommended adult booster
vaccines, especially those who travel abroad? Aren't we (yes, that
includes me) just as guilty of putting small children at risk of
infection here at home?

Amanda Peet vs. the Medical Establishment

Posted July 19, 2008 | 01:26 PM (EST)
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
Vaccination Industry  Liars

This week, actress Amanda Peet called parents who don't vaccinate
their kids "parasites," and then essentially went on to lie when she
announced that scientists have concluded there is "no association
between autism and vaccines."

Peet saw fit to blast "the media and journalists" and "a few fringe
medical groups and parent advocacy groups" for "presenting vaccine
safety as a controversy." She thinks the debate, save for a few
dangerous holdouts, is over.

I thought that Ms. Peet (and her ill-advised advisors such as Dr. Paul
Offit) might want to see from whence these parasitic, fringey parents
and doctors have been getting their cues of late.

Here are just a few recent examples:

July 15, 2008 - A workgroup report of the IACC (the Interagency Autism
Coordinating Committee, which includes HHS, CDC, NIH and others) says
that some members want "specific objectives on vaccine research"
included in the new, multimillion-dollar national autism research
program, as mandated by Congress in the Combatting Autism Act.

Notes from the meeting indicate that workgroup members want federal
researchers to consider "shortfalls" in epidemiological studies cited
as proof against a vaccine-autism association (by Offit, Peet, et al);
as well as a specific plan "for researching vaccines as a potential
cause of autism." The workgroup also says that the final research
agenda should "state that the issue is open."

July 14, 2008 - Rep. Brad Miller (R-NC), Chairman of the House
Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, (Committe on Science and
Technology) writes to HHS Secretary Michael Leavitt to complain that
current federal autism research "shows a strong preference to fund
genetic-based studies," even though there is, "growing evidence that
suggests a wide range of conditions or environmental exposures may
play a role" in autism. He cites a recent study on vaccines and
monkeys, presented as a poster (unreviewed) at the International
Society for Autism Research, which, "suggests that research on
primates is about to emerge that will provide additional evidence of
environmental contributions to ASD."

Rep. Miller specifically cites the case of Hannah Poling as "just one
example that is suggestive of very important lines of inquiry," and he
recommends some "very suggestive writings along these lines," such as
the April 5, 2008 letter from Terry Poling, (Hannah's mother, an
attorney and former nurse) to The New York Times titled, "Vaccines,
Autism and Our Daughter, Hannah."

Finally, Rep Miller writes that HHS "has lost much of the public's
trust," and urges Mr. Leavitt to form a Secretarial-level Autism
Advisory Board to provide public feedback, liaise with parents groups,
and "assist in reestablishing the public trust" that Ms. Peet herself
said was lagging. Miller recommends tapping groups such as Safe Minds,
Generation Rescue, Autism Speaks and the Autism Research Institute for
their, "experience evaluating research' and an "in-depth knowledge of
the current body of ASD research." All four groups support
vaccine-autism research, and thus presumably fall within the rubric of
what Ms. Peet terms as "fringe."

May 12, 2008 - Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of the NIH and the
American Red Cross and current Health Editor of US News & World Report
tells CBS News that, "Officials have been too quick to dismiss the
hypothesis as irrational," and says they "don't want to pursue a
hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public
health community at large by scaring people."

But, unlike Amanda Peet, Dr. Healy believes that, "the public's
smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I
don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific
hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show."

April 21, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Barack Obama, speaking at
a rally in Pennsylvania, answers a question about autism by saying:
"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are
suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. The science right now
is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

April 11, 2008 - The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group (comprised of
the nation's leading vaccine experts) meets to review the CDC's draft
research proposal for vaccine safety issues. Among the top vaccine
questions that CDC wants answered: "Are neurodevelopmental disorders,
including autism, clinical outcomes of vaccine injury?" And, "Is
immunization associated with increased risk for neurological
deterioration in children with mitochondrial dysfunction?"

March 29, 2008 - Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director of the CDC, speaking
about the Hannah Poling case on CNN says: "If a child was immunized,
got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines, and was
pre-disposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off
some damage (including) symptoms that have characteristics of autism."
And she adds: "I think we have to have an open mind about this."
Meanwhile, the CDC website lists autism studies it currently funds on
thimerosal and the MMR vaccine.

March 11, 2008 - The CISA Network (Clinical Immunization Safety
Assessment), headed by the CDC, receives a report from top researchers
at Johns Hopkins University that 30 typically developing children with
mitochondrial dysfunction all regressed into autism between 12 and 24
months of life. At least two of them (6%) showed brain damage within
one week of receiving simultaneous multiple vaccinations.

Included in this vaccine safety network is the US health insurance
industry - which is now being forced by many states to cover autism
treatments, and wants to know what possible role vaccines are playing
in the neurodevelopmental health of children. A month later, the CISA
network announces it has "formed a working group to study methods
related to mitochondrial disorders and immunization."

February 25, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. John McCain says at a
rally in Texas that "It's indisputable that (autism) is on the rise
amongst children, the question is what's causing it. And we go back
and forth and there's strong evidence that indicates that it's got to
do with a preservative in vaccines." McCain notes that there's
"divided scientific opinion" on the matter, with "many on the other
side that are credible scientists that are saying that's not the cause
of it."

February 22, 2008 - Medical Personnel at HHS concede an autism case
filed by the family of Hannah Poling in the federal Vaccine Injury
Compensation Program, before the claim can go to trial as a "test
case" of the theory that thimerosal causes autism. Though portrayed by
some (ie, Dr. Offit) as a legal decision, it is in fact a medical
decision. HHS doctors admit that the "cause" of Hannah's "autistic
encephalopathy" was "vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that
exceeded metabolic reserves," which exacerbated her underlying
mitochondrial dysfunction. At 19 months of age, Hannah was given 5
injections containing nine vaccines.

January, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton,
responding to a questionnaire, says that autism is "epidemic," and
that she is, "committed to make investments to find the causes of
autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines." When
asked if she will support an autism study of vaccinated vs.
unvaccinated children, she replies: "Yes. We don't know what, if any,
kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find
out."

So there you have it. Since the beginning of the year, we have heard
from:

1) Three United States Senators
2) The next President (and possibly Vice President) of the country
3) The Director of the CDC (and her "open mind")
4) The former head of the NIH and the American Red Cross
5) The Chairman of a House Science Subcommittee on Investigations and
Oversight
6) A respected Pediatric Neurologist and Resident at Johns Hopkins
University Medical School (Dr. Jon Poling)
7) The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group
8) The CDC's Vaccine Safety Research Agenda authors
9) Medical personnel at the HHS Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
10) The Strategic Planning Workgroup of the Interagency Autism
Coordinating Committee
11) The Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Network
12) Leading autism researchers at Johns Hopkins University Medical
School
13) America's health insurance companies

Virtually all of the above advocate, or have at least considered,
exploring the possible links between vaccines and autism.

I am not a parent, and I am not anti-vaccine. But if I were going to
listen to experts on this subject, I would be more likely to consult
some of these people, rather than a well-meaning but grossly
misinformed actress who is guided by a doctor who will likely make
money from his own work helping to develop a childhood vaccine.

Ms. Peet apologized for calling parents "parasites," and that's nice.
But it is her continued use of the "fringe" label, I believe, that
will ultimately come back to bite her the hardest.

The vaccine-autism debate may be over in the firmly closed minds of
Peet and Offit, but for serious, rational thinkers such as those
listed above, this debate (and the real work that lies ahead) has only
just begun.
Ilena Rose - 25 Jul 2008 17:03 GMT
Disbarred NY attorney, and vapid Snake-oil Vigilante, Vaccination
Liar, repeated the identical lies that others from Quackwatch and the
Healthfrauds have been spreading:

"This is the Poling case, where the child had a mitochondrial disorder
that, after vaccinations, led to autism-like sysmptoms, not autism.
Reading the original decesion shows just that. "

WRONG
WRONG
WRONG

With the damage you have already caused your own family with your
horrific law practices and utlimate disbarment ... how you continue to
lie about something so important indicates there is no lower level you
can sink to.

Is there anything you won't lie about Marla (one of the names Probert
used to attempt to infiltrate my support group)

Dr. Poling corrected this ... yet Probert and David "Orac does NOT
KNOW" Gorski keep parroting it. Typical Healthfraud Lies.

"Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
only ‘degeneration’ that occurred (along with 6mos of total growth
failure) after 18mos of NORMAL development followed vaccination and
nothing else!" Dr. Jon Poling, MD, Ph.D, Neurologist
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html
Jeff - 25 Jul 2008 17:57 GMT
> Disbarred NY attorney, and vapid Snake-oil Vigilante, Vaccination
> Liar, repeated the identical lies that others from Quackwatch and the
> Healthfrauds have been spreading:

Personal attack noted.

> "This is the Poling case, where the child had a mitochondrial disorder
> that, after vaccinations, led to autism-like sysmptoms, not autism.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> WRONG
> WRONG

From the ruling:

"Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation,
Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts
of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and
affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that
compensation is appropriate in this case.

"In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the
statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD
received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying
mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular
energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with
features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends
that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42
U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii)."

You can read the full ruling here: http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/02/full-text-autis.html.

So Mark was right on. The ruling clearly didn't say that the child had
autism.

Have a lovely day,

Jeff

<...>
Mark Probert - 25 Jul 2008 19:33 GMT
> Disbarred NY attorney, and vapid Snake-oil Vigilante, Vaccination
> Liar, repeated the identical lies that others from Quackwatch and the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> failure) after 18mos of NORMAL development followed vaccination and
> nothing else!" Dr. Jon Poling, MD, Ph.D, Neurologisthttp://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html

Thanks for the personal attack. Nothing new there, even though I have
not attacked you personally in years. Dr. Gorski has also not
commented on your messages for years.

If you have something to say TO HIM, instead of back stabbing, why not
visit his blog and post a message or two? I have mentioned this
before, and you seem awfully reluctant to do so. Any reason?

As for the AoA site, I had not read it. I usually do not waste my time
reading garbage.
Ilena Rose - 25 Jul 2008 18:44 GMT
Jeffrey P Utz ... another Healthfraud ... has now joined Probert's
lies about Hannah Poling's diagnosis. I want to be sure people know
that Utz at one time had a 'restricted' medical license which he lost.
Now he flacks for the Vaccination Lobby.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm

I repeat what Dr. Poling ... who knows a million times more about
Hannah than disbarred Probert or no longer licensed Utz says:

"Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
only ‘degeneration’ that occurred (along with 6mos of total growth
failure) after 18mos of NORMAL development followed vaccination and
nothing else!" Dr. Jon Poling, MD, Ph.D, Neurologist
http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html
Jeff - 25 Jul 2008 18:59 GMT
> Jeffrey P Utz ... another Healthfraud ... has now joined Probert's
> lies about Hannah Poling's diagnosis. I want to be sure people know
> that Utz at one time had a 'restricted' medical license which he lost.
> Now he flacks for the Vaccination Lobby.www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm

I have no relationship what-so-ever with either of these groups, other
than I subscribe to and participate in their list. Anything I say in
these newsgroups is my opinion, not that of these groups. If what I
have to say agrees with another group, it is merely that the other
group is correct in whatever matter is at hand. In addition, I have no
relationship with any vaccination group, drug company, etc.

Anything I say here is what I am speaking for myself.

> I repeat what Dr. Poling ... who knows a million times more about
> Hannah than disbarred Probert or no longer licensed Utz says:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> failure) after 18mos of NORMAL development followed vaccination and
> nothing else!" Dr. Jon Poling, MD, Ph.D, Neurologisthttp://www.ageofautism.com/2008/07/dear-dr-novella.html

I know what Dr Polling said. Nonetheless, the ruling from court did
not find that the vaccine caused autism. Check your facts.

Jeff
Mark Probert - 25 Jul 2008 19:36 GMT
> > Jeffrey P Utz ... another Healthfraud ... has now joined Probert's
> > lies about Hannah Poling's diagnosis. I want to be sure people know
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> I know what Dr Polling said. Nonetheless, the ruling from court did
> not find that the vaccine caused autism. Check your facts.

Dr. Novella scares the cleanse out of the Mercury Militia and the
Merchants of Disease, Disability and Death, a/k/a anti-vac liars.
These groups, lead by not-a-real-journalist-any-more Kirby, and anti-
free speech internet bully J. Bully Handley, have launched an
organized attack on Dr. Novella.
Mark Probert - 25 Jul 2008 19:37 GMT
> "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
> psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
> only ‘degeneration’ that occurred (along with 6mos of total growth
> failure) after 18mos of NORMAL development followed vaccination and
> nothing else!" Dr. Jon Poling, MD, Ph.D,

Dr. Poling refuses to release Hannah's medical records, which HE put
in issue when he makes claims. I wonder why?
jurimed2@yahoo.com - 26 Jul 2008 17:49 GMT
> > "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
> > psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Dr. Poling refuses to release Hannah's medical records, which HE put
> in issue when he makes claims. I wonder why?

Dimwit Mark Probert:

It is obvious why you could not keep your law license. You, mark, are
KNOWN for making totally assinine remarks, but this one takes the
cake.  (1)  ALL of the medical records were part of the Federal
Agency's case - so they are ALL available right now.  Your statement
was typical of YOU.  (2)  You made that sh.t up - as though some
legitimate authority had demanded records and the man refused.  That,
of course, did not happen.

Court documents I'm looking at are showing that fully 80% of all drugs
sold in the US are made in China - and the US FDA DOES NOT INSPECT ANY
of the Chinese manufacturing facilities.

So, I think it very safe to assume that 80% of vaccinations are made
in an open running sewer, attached to a lead paint plant somewhere in
a fifth-world country.

I'm surprised anyone survives the current drug world.  Why any
knowledable parent would allow vaccination, at all, is beyond me.

Tim Bolen
Bob Badour - 26 Jul 2008 18:48 GMT
>>>"Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
>>>psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Tim Bolen

I can only conclude you have confused knowledgeable with ignorant and
misinformed.
Mark Probert - 27 Jul 2008 19:15 GMT
On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > > "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
> > > psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Agency's case - so they are ALL available right now.  Your statement
> was typical of YOU.

Prove it. You cannot.

 (2)  You made that sh.t up - as though some
> legitimate authority had demanded records and the man refused.  That,
> of course, did not happen.

Diversion deleted.
Mike - 29 Jul 2008 04:34 GMT
> On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Prove it. You cannot.

What the f&ck, the government has all the records. This is a quote:

"Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation,
Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts
of this case, as presented by the petition, MEDICAL RECORDS, and
affidavits" (capitals mine)

(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html
and numerous other sites).

Couldn't you make up some better sh!t ?

>   (2)  You made that sh.t up - as though some
>> legitimate authority had demanded records and the man refused.  That,
>> of course, did not happen.
>
> Diversion deleted.
Mark Probert - 29 Jul 2008 22:11 GMT
> > On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> of this case, as presented by the petition, MEDICAL RECORDS, and
> affidavits" (capitals mine)

Yes, the government has the records. No question. However, those
records are not publicly available.

> (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_...
> and numerous other sites).

Quoting Kirby gets you no where.

> Couldn't you make up some better sh!t ?

Nope. No need to make it up.
Mike - 30 Jul 2008 03:37 GMT
>>> On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Yes, the government has the records. No question. However, those
> records are not publicly available.

Then you omitted words "to the public" from your statement. With these
words the statement is no longer incorrect but now it is asinine. Or
assinine if you prefer. Because why in the world should Dr. Poling
release the records to the public? You surely do not publish medical
records of YOUR  children.

>> (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_...
>> and numerous other sites).
>
> Quoting Kirby gets you no where.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=66
also quotes Kirby (and Kirby quotes the document). Big deal.
The point was that the records were released to the government,
and nobody including you contests it.

>> Couldn't you make up some better sh!t ?
>
> Nope. No need to make it up.

Ok, you just did not express your sh!t correctly. It is still sh!t.
Mark Probert - 30 Jul 2008 22:39 GMT
> >>> On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>> "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Then you omitted words "to the public" from your statement. With these
> words the statement is no longer incorrect but now it is asinine.

Asinine only if you have double standards.

Or
> assinine if you prefer. Because why in the world should Dr. Poling
> release the records to the public? You surely do not publish medical
> records of YOUR  children.

Dr. Poling is using his daughter to promote a medical claim without
providing the records to support it.

> >> (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_...
> >> and numerous other sites).
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The point was that the records were released to the government,
> and nobody including you contests it.

You said:

ALL of the medical records were part of the Federal Agency's case - so
they are ALL available right now.  Your statement
was typical of YOU.

And, now you back pedal. There is no way for anyone to independently
verify the statements, and, frankly, Kirby is a bullshit artist, bends
and flexes facts, and is not to be trusted. Dr. Poling, Hannah's
father, published a case study of her, and failed to disclose HIS
conflict of interest since he was a litigant in the Omnibus.

> >> Couldn't you make up some better sh!t ?
>
> > Nope. No need to make it up.
>
> Ok, you just did not express your sh!t correctly. It is still sh!t.-

It is only sh.t if you are an anti-vac liar who has double standards.
Mike - 31 Jul 2008 05:20 GMT
>>>>> On Jul 26, 12:49 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Asinine only if you have double standards.

???

> Or
>> assinine if you prefer. Because why in the world should Dr. Poling
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Dr. Poling is using his daughter to promote a medical claim without
> providing the records to support it.

He filed a claim with the government and released the records to the
government. End of story. The rest is you squirming because you
cannot put a spin on a simple fact.

>>>> (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_...
>>>> and numerous other sites).
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> they are ALL available right now.  Your statement
> was typical of YOU.

I did not say that. Or are all posters the same for you?

> And, now you back pedal. There is no way for anyone to independently
> verify the statements,

which statements?

 and, frankly, Kirby is a bullshit artist, bends
> and flexes facts, and is not to be trusted.

Your favorite site sciencebasedmedicine.org trusts him
enough regarding quoting the documents. The rest is not relevant
to this topic. Kirby is not relevant either. The government
had the records, there could not be a case otherwise.

> Dr. Poling, Hannah's
> father, published a case study of her, and failed to disclose HIS
> conflict of interest since he was a litigant in the Omnibus.

There was nothing about vaccines in the study.

>>>> Couldn't you make up some better sh!t ?
>>> Nope. No need to make it up.
>> Ok, you just did not express your sh!t correctly. It is still sh!t.-
>
> It is only sh.t if you are an anti-vac liar who has double standards.

That's really interesting. I am supporting Dr.Poling not releasing the
medical records of his autistic daughter to public domain, therefore
I am an anti-vac liar. Wow!
Jan Drew - 30 Jul 2008 05:56 GMT
News from Ilena Rosenthal: Health Lover
http://ilenarose.blogspot.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/amanda-peet-vsmedical-sci_b...

Amanda Peet vs. the Medical Establishment

Posted July 19, 2008 | 01:26 PM (EST)
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
Vaccination Industry  Liars

This week, actress Amanda Peet called parents who don't vaccinate
their kids "parasites," and then essentially went on to lie when she
announced that scientists have concluded there is "no association
between autism and vaccines."

Peet saw fit to blast "the media and journalists" and "a few fringe
medical groups and parent advocacy groups" for "presenting vaccine
safety as a controversy." She thinks the debate, save for a few
dangerous holdouts, is over.

I thought that Ms. Peet (and her ill-advised advisors such as Dr. Paul
Offit) might want to see from whence these parasitic, fringey parents
and doctors have been getting their cues of late.

Here are just a few recent examples:

July 15, 2008 - A workgroup report of the IACC (the Interagency Autism
Coordinating Committee, which includes HHS, CDC, NIH and others) says
that some members want "specific objectives on vaccine research"
included in the new, multimillion-dollar national autism research
program, as mandated by Congress in the Combatting Autism Act.

Notes from the meeting indicate that workgroup members want federal
researchers to consider "shortfalls" in epidemiological studies cited
as proof against a vaccine-autism association (by Offit, Peet, et al);
as well as a specific plan "for researching vaccines as a potential
cause of autism." The workgroup also says that the final research
agenda should "state that the issue is open."

July 14, 2008 - Rep. Brad Miller (R-NC), Chairman of the House
Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight, (Committe on Science and
Technology) writes to HHS Secretary Michael Leavitt to complain that
current federal autism research "shows a strong preference to fund
genetic-based studies," even though there is, "growing evidence that
suggests a wide range of conditions or environmental exposures may
play a role" in autism. He cites a recent study on vaccines and
monkeys, presented as a poster (unreviewed) at the International
Society for Autism Research, which, "suggests that research on
primates is about to emerge that will provide additional evidence of
environmental contributions to ASD."

Rep. Miller specifically cites the case of Hannah Poling as "just one
example that is suggestive of very important lines of inquiry," and he
recommends some "very suggestive writings along these lines," such as
the April 5, 2008 letter from Terry Poling, (Hannah's mother, an
attorney and former nurse) to The New York Times titled, "Vaccines,
Autism and Our Daughter, Hannah."

Finally, Rep Miller writes that HHS "has lost much of the public's
trust," and urges Mr. Leavitt to form a Secretarial-level Autism
Advisory Board to provide public feedback, liaise with parents groups,
and "assist in reestablishing the public trust" that Ms. Peet herself
said was lagging. Miller recommends tapping groups such as Safe Minds,
Generation Rescue, Autism Speaks and the Autism Research Institute for
their, "experience evaluating research' and an "in-depth knowledge of
the current body of ASD research." All four groups support
vaccine-autism research, and thus presumably fall within the rubric of
what Ms. Peet terms as "fringe."

May 12, 2008 - Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of the NIH and the
American Red Cross and current Health Editor of US News & World Report
tells CBS News that, "Officials have been too quick to dismiss the
hypothesis as irrational," and says they "don't want to pursue a
hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public
health community at large by scaring people."

But, unlike Amanda Peet, Dr. Healy believes that, "the public's
smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I
don't think you should ever turn your back on any scientific
hypothesis because you're afraid of what it might show."

April 21, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Barack Obama, speaking at
a rally in Pennsylvania, answers a question about autism by saying:
"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are
suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. The science right now
is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

April 11, 2008 - The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group (comprised of
the nation's leading vaccine experts) meets to review the CDC's draft
research proposal for vaccine safety issues. Among the top vaccine
questions that CDC wants answered: "Are neurodevelopmental disorders,
including autism, clinical outcomes of vaccine injury?" And, "Is
immunization associated with increased risk for neurological
deterioration in children with mitochondrial dysfunction?"

March 29, 2008 - Dr. Julie Gerberding, Director of the CDC, speaking
about the Hannah Poling case on CNN says: "If a child was immunized,
got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines, and was
pre-disposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off
some damage (including) symptoms that have characteristics of autism."
And she adds: "I think we have to have an open mind about this."
Meanwhile, the CDC website lists autism studies it currently funds on
thimerosal and the MMR vaccine.

March 11, 2008 - The CISA Network (Clinical Immunization Safety
Assessment), headed by the CDC, receives a report from top researchers
at Johns Hopkins University that 30 typically developing children with
mitochondrial dysfunction all regressed into autism between 12 and 24
months of life. At least two of them (6%) showed brain damage within
one week of receiving simultaneous multiple vaccinations.

Included in this vaccine safety network is the US health insurance
industry - which is now being forced by many states to cover autism
treatments, and wants to know what possible role vaccines are playing
in the neurodevelopmental health of children. A month later, the CISA
network announces it has "formed a working group to study methods
related to mitochondrial disorders and immunization."

February 25, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. John McCain says at a
rally in Texas that "It's indisputable that (autism) is on the rise
amongst children, the question is what's causing it. And we go back
and forth and there's strong evidence that indicates that it's got to
do with a preservative in vaccines." McCain notes that there's
"divided scientific opinion" on the matter, with "many on the other
side that are credible scientists that are saying that's not the cause
of it."

February 22, 2008 - Medical Personnel at HHS concede an autism case
filed by the family of Hannah Poling in the federal Vaccine Injury
Compensation Program, before the claim can go to trial as a "test
case" of the theory that thimerosal causes autism. Though portrayed by
some (ie, Dr. Offit) as a legal decision, it is in fact a medical
decision. HHS doctors admit that the "cause" of Hannah's "autistic
encephalopathy" was "vaccine-induced fever and immune stimulation that
exceeded metabolic reserves," which exacerbated her underlying
mitochondrial dysfunction. At 19 months of age, Hannah was given 5
injections containing nine vaccines.

January, 2008 - Presidential Candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton,
responding to a questionnaire, says that autism is "epidemic," and
that she is, "committed to make investments to find the causes of
autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines." When
asked if she will support an autism study of vaccinated vs.
unvaccinated children, she replies: "Yes. We don't know what, if any,
kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find
out."

So there you have it. Since the beginning of the year, we have heard
from:

1) Three United States Senators
2) The next President (and possibly Vice President) of the country
3) The Director of the CDC (and her "open mind")
4) The former head of the NIH and the American Red Cross
5) The Chairman of a House Science Subcommittee on Investigations and
Oversight
6) A respected Pediatric Neurologist and Resident at Johns Hopkins
University Medical School (Dr. Jon Poling)
7) The HHS Vaccine Safety Working Group
8) The CDC's Vaccine Safety Research Agenda authors
9) Medical personnel at the HHS Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
10) The Strategic Planning Workgroup of the Interagency Autism
Coordinating Committee
11) The Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Network
12) Leading autism researchers at Johns Hopkins University Medical
School
13) America's health insurance companies

Virtually all of the above advocate, or have at least considered,
exploring the possible links between vaccines and autism.

I am not a parent, and I am not anti-vaccine. But if I were going to
listen to experts on this subject, I would be more likely to consult
some of these people, rather than a well-meaning but grossly
misinformed actress who is guided by a doctor who will likely make
money from his own work helping to develop a childhood vaccine.

Ms. Peet apologized for calling parents "parasites," and that's nice.
But it is her continued use of the "fringe" label, I believe, that
will ultimately come back to bite her the hardest.

The vaccine-autism debate may be over in the firmly closed minds of
Peet and Offit, but for serious, rational thinkers such as those
listed above, this debate (and the real work that lies ahead) has only
just begun.
David Wright - 23 Aug 2008 21:52 GMT
>> > "Actually—Hannah has diagnoses of DSM-IV Autism (by JHU/KKI
>> > psychology) and mitochondrial disorder (by two metabolic experts). The
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>in an open running sewer, attached to a lead paint plant somewhere in
>a fifth-world country.

That's because you're ignorant, Timmy.  You probably don't get to
travel much.  I assume you're on a very tight budget.

>I'm surprised anyone survives the current drug world.  Why any
>knowledable parent would allow vaccination, at all, is beyond me.

Of course it is.  Most things are beyond you.  Try not to let it worry
you too much.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "There are two kinds of Republicans:  millionaires and suckers."
                                                     -- John Dolan
Frankly, my dear - 01 Sep 2008 00:12 GMT
While I have no opinion on Amanda Peet's views, I do think she's rather hot.

Or is that 'inappropriate' to the nature of the thread ?

> In article
> <c387477e-9787-4cf9-b09a-533c43d8bc64@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>     "There are two kinds of Republicans:  millionaires and suckers."
>                                                      -- John Dolan
 
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