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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / July 2008Vaccine deaths down the ages
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/deaths.html [1984] "My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the United States each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given children. The pertussis vaccine is the most likely villain, but it could also be one or more of the others."--Dr Mendelsohn, M.D. (1984) [1921] There are no adequate statistics showing these fatalities, but it may be estimated that in England and Wales no fewer than 6,000 Infants are Killed every Year by Vaccination. This is perhaps the least part of the damage. The Great Damage is that caused to Teeth, Eyesight and Constitution, by the illness of vaccinia forced upon the infant at the most critical and delicate period of its life. [1921] Vaccination and the State By Arnold Lupton MP. [1880] Parliamentary return (No. 443, Session 1877) demonstrates that 25,000 babies are yearly sacrificed by diseases excited by Vaccination. International Anti-Vaccination League points against vaccination 1880 http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ 12 Babies die during vaccine trials in Argentina Buenos Aires, Jul 10, 2008 (Buenos Aires, Jul 10, 2008 At least 12 babies who were part of a clinical study to test the effectiveness of a vaccine against pneumonia have died over the past year in Argentina, the local press reported Thursday. The study was sponsored by global drug giant GlaxoSmithKline and uses children from poor families, who are "pressured and forced into signing consent forms," the Argentine Federation of Health Professionals, or Fesprosa, said. "This occurs without any type of state control" and "does not comply with minimum ethical requirements," Fesprosa said. The vaccine trial is still ongoing despite the denunciations, and those in charge of the study were cited by the Critica newspaper as saying that the procedures are being carried out in a lawful manner. Colombian and Panama were also chosen by GSK as staging grounds for trials of the vaccine against the pneumococcal bacteria. Since 2007, 15,000 children under the age of one from the Argentine provinces of Mendoza, San Juan and Santiago del Estero have been included in the research protocol, a statement of what the study is trying to achieve. "Only 12 have died throughout the country, which is a very low figure if we compare it with the deaths produced by respiratory illnesses caused by the pneumococcal bacteria," pediatrician Enrique Smith, one of the lead investigators, said. In Santiago del Estero, one of the country's poorest provinces, the trials were authorized when Enrique's brother, Juan Carlos Smith, was provincial health minister. According to pediatrician Ana Maria Marchese, who works at the children's hospital in the provincial capital where the studies are being conducted, "because they can't experiment in Europe or the United States, they come to do it in third-world countries." "A lot of people want to leave the protocol but aren't allowed; they force them to continue under the threat that if they leave they won't receive any other vaccine," said Julieta Ovejero, great aunt of one of the six babies who died in Santiago del Estero. Fesprosa's Juan Carlos Palomares said that "in most cases these are underprivileged individuals, many of them unable to read or write, who are pressured into including their children" in the trials. According to Fesprosa, "the laboratory pays $8,000 for each child included in the study, but none (of that money) remains in the province that lends the public facilities and the health personnel for the private research." EFE > http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > the public facilities and the health personnel for the private research." > EFE Well done. The mindless pro-vaccinationists accuse us of being uncaring in regard to children's health. INSTEAD, the facts such as these that you have posted expose the REAL danger to every child subject to vaccination and this IRESSPECTIVE of any "protection" the vaccine may or MAY NOT provide from something else. Citizen Jimserac The vaccination "didn't take". (Common statement on adverse reaction to a vaccination) >> http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> to >> do it in third-world countries." I won't defend truly unethical behaviour, and there is a history of drug companies exploiting less developed populations in drug testing. But it makes both ethical and economic sense to test vaccines out where there are high mortality rates from the target illness. PM >> "A lot of people want to leave the protocol but aren't allowed; they >> force [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > The vaccination "didn't take". > (Common statement on adverse reaction to a vaccination) > makes both ethical and economic sense to test vaccines out where there are > high mortality rates from the target illness. they only btest vaccines in the thirld world as they can get away with anything, and get anything on the market and you shouldn't vaccinate malnourished kids http://www.whale.to/vaccine/healthy_trial_babies_only.html >> makes both ethical and economic sense to test vaccines out where there are >> high mortality rates from the target illness. > > they only btest vaccines in the thirld world as they can get away with > anything, and get anything on the market Not just vaccines. In 1996, Pfizer tested antibiotic Trovan on Nigerian children in a hospital in town of Kano. The letter of approval from the hospital ethics committee was forged and backdated. The parents were not told that the drug was never tested on children. 11 "guinea pigs" died, some others had brain damage. Trovan was never approved for children by FDA and was banned in Europe. Small wonder many people resist polio vaccinations there these days. > and you shouldn't vaccinate malnourished kids > http://www.whale.to/vaccine/healthy_trial_babies_only.html > they only btest vaccines in the thirld world as they can get away with > anything, and get anything on the market And here I never knew that the United States was "in the third world." | "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+ >>> http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ >>> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > PM Oh, but you defended the not only *unethical behavior* but--also the *deliberate repeated violations* of Dr Wilson. In fact--you could see no cover-ups. Thus, you are not to be believed. >>> "A lot of people want to leave the protocol but aren't allowed; they >>> force [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> The vaccination "didn't take". >> (Common statement on adverse reaction to a vaccination) > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > >> the public facilities and the health personnel for the private research." > >> EFE Well said! I'm glad you're on to this stuff and it MUST be condemned by both pro and anti-vacctionationsts. Citizen Jimserac >> "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > I'm glad you're on to this stuff and it MUST > be condemned by both pro and anti-vacctionationsts. Regarding pro-vaccinationists in these groups, there won't be any condemnation. They adopted a Roman motto: "aut bene, aut nihil" about drug industry. When they cannot say something good they will not say anything. That is so remarkably consistent, it makes me think that they are not bona fide pro-vaccinationists but pharma shills. They look less like individuals with opinions but rather like a disciplined team with variations only in postings style. > Citizen Jimserac > Regarding pro-vaccinationists in these groups, there won't be any > condemnation. They adopted a Roman motto: "aut bene, aut nihil" about drug [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > individuals with opinions but rather like a disciplined team with > variations only in postings style. its a religion, they all think and say the same drivel and really believe it however absurd http://www.whale.to/a/pharma_gang.html they ahve their own meeting places where they get the lastest surmon form the mount of pharma http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ >> Regarding pro-vaccinationists in these groups, there won't be any >> condemnation. They adopted a Roman motto: "aut bene, aut nihil" about drug [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > its a religion, they all think and say the same drivel and really believe it > however absurd http://www.whale.to/a/pharma_gang.html They do not necessarily believe it. They know when to express an opinion and when to keep one's mouth shut. For example, none of them commented on a statement by Senator McCain about a possible vaccine-autism link. For the vaccination flacks, it is a hot topic that never fails to elicit a knee-jerk reaction. After the information was posted here one could expect a barrage of responses from this group ridiculing McCain and his understanding of science. Or at least dismissing his remarks as a political ploy etc. But there was nothing. This is not consistent with a real strong pro-vaccination stance. But it is consistent with the assumption that they are not just individuals with opinions but that their postings are but a part of a broader strategy. A strategy in which an attack on a presidential candidate is not good for business. > they ahve their own meeting places where they get the lastest surmon form > the mount of pharma http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ >They do not necessarily believe it. They know when to express an opinion >and when to keep one's mouth shut. For example, none of them commented >on a statement by Senator McCain about a possible vaccine-autism link. OK, here's my comment. If I could vote for him I wouldn't, because I would not want a fool to be the leader of my country. (Yes, I realise that he was just being a politician and agreeing with something in order to not offend someone, but sometimes honesty is preferable to appeasement.)  SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > effectiveness of a vaccine against pneumonia have died over the past year in > Argentina, the local press reported Thursday. > Since 2007, 15,000 children under the age of one from the Argentine > provinces of Mendoza, San Juan and Santiago del Estero have been included in > the research protocol, a statement of what the study is trying to achieve. 12 deaths per year among 15,000 poor children? That's an *amazingly* low death rate. Normally you have far more than that due to diarrhea alone. | "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+ Diversion snipped. > In message <j5idnUr535h6EurVnZ2dnUVZ8sXin...@bt.com>, JOHN wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > *amazingly* low death rate. Normally you have far more than > that due to diarrhea alone. Even 1 death is unacceptable. And, EXCUSE ME, the fact that the are poor does not make them any less worthy of attention or concern. Citizen Jimserac >> In message <j5idnUr535h6EurVnZ2dnUVZ8sXin...@bt.com>, JOHN wrote: >> >http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1750553/ >> > 12 Babies die during vaccine trials in Argentina >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Even 1 death is unacceptable. Absolutely -- and since the background annual death rate for rural Argentina is over 25/1000 live births, a group of 15,000 would normally have 375 deaths. It would appear that the original post is giving the vaccine credit for saving more than 360 lives. You don't seem to approve. Does saving lives bother you? > And, EXCUSE ME, the fact that the are poor does not > make them any less worthy of attention or concern. No, but it does provide the context for what those kids would expect without the vaccine. Personally I'm a bit doubtful about that large a difference, but rather than get into the whole "I don't trust your source" thing I'll simply accept John's value for now. I trust we can agree that if we are to trust Scudamore for anything, it's that he will not apply any positive spin in favor of vaccines. | "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+ > [1984] "My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that > the nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the United States each year are > related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given children. > The pertussis vaccine is the most likely villain, but it could also be one > or more of the others."--Dr Mendelsohn, M.D. (1984) And miraculously putting them on their backs to sleep undid all that vaccination damage! Of course, the recent research that found specific genes that control serotonin in the brain and that increase the chance of SIDS-like deaths in rats does sort of point in other directions ... | "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+ |
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