Medical Forum / General / Alternative / June 2008
CDC Admits Thimerosal Safety Study Flawed
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Jan Drew - 24 Jun 2008 23:30 GMT http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!361.entry
June 20
CDC Admits Thimerosal Safety Study Flawed ... so basically, you can't trust anything they've said about how safe thimerosal is, or vaccines are. They've been doing the bidding of Big Pharma all along, in addition to their own pathological quest to vaccinate everyone against everything as soon after birth as possible (as if there is no other way to prevent diseases, and as if vaccines are harmless).
Click through the link to read David Kirby's piece on the Huffington Post.
Quote
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/cdc-vaccine-study-design_b_108398.html
CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has delivered a potentially explosive report to the powerful House Appropriations Committee, in which she admits to a startling string of errors in the design and methods used in the CDC's landmark 2003 study that found no link between mercury in vaccines and autism, ADHD, speech delay or tics.
Gerberding was responding to a 2006 report from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), which concluded that the CDC's flagship thimerosal safety study was riddled with "several areas of weaknesses" that combined to "reduce the usefulness" of the study.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote in an undated mea culpa to Congress, (provided to me through a Capitol Hill staffer) adding that her agency "does not plan to use" the database in question, the Vaccine Safety Datalink, (VSD) for any future "ecological studies" of autism.
In fact, Gerberding's report said, any continued use of the VSD for similar ecological studies of vaccines and autism "would be uninformative and potentially misleading."
Ecological vaccine studies are large, epidemiological analyses of risks and trends using computerized data from large populations -- in this case children enrolled at several big HMOs -- without ever examining a single patient in person.
CDC officials conducted at least five separate analyses of the data over a four-year period from 1999-2003. The first analysis showed that children exposed to the most thimerosal by one month of age had extremely high relative risks for a number of outcomes, compared with children who got little or no mercury: The relative risk for ADHD was 8.29 times higher, for autism, it was 7.62 times higher, ADD, 6.38 times higher, tics, 5.65 times, and speech and language delays were 2.09 more likely among kids who got the most mercury.
Over time, however, all of these risks declined into statistical insignificance, statistical inconsistency or else outright oblivion: The relative risk for autism plummeted from 7.62 in the first analysis, to 2.48 in the second version, to 1.69 in the third round, to 1.52 in the fourth, and down to nothing at all in the fifth, final, and published analysis printed in the Journal Pediatrics in November of 2003.
Vaccine officials attributed the steady drop to the elimination of "statistical noise" from the data through due diligence and the endeavor for excellence in governmental statistical analysis.
Indeed, the VSD study was the main pillar of a hugely influential 2004 report by the Institute of Medicine, which also concluded that there was no evidence of link between mercury, vaccines and autism.
To this day, public health officials routinely point to five "large epidemiological studies" representing the "highest quality science," none of which found any link to thimerosal.
In fact, the American VSD study has long been held up as the best and brightest of them all (the others were in Sweden, the UK, and two in Denmark). And this reputation has stuck in the minds of medicine and the media.
Curiously though, even the study's lead author -- Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, an employee of vaccine maker GlaxoSmithKline -- protested that the VSD study "found no evidence against an association, as a negative study would. In fact, he said that additional study was needed, which "is the conclusion to which a neutral study must come."
That's when Congress stepped in.
In 2005, a group of Senators and Representatives headed by Sen. Joe Lieberman wrote to the NIEHS (an agency of the National Institutes of Health) saying that many parents no longer trusted the CDC to conduct independent minded studies of its own vaccine program. Lieberman et al asked NIEHS to review the CDC's work on the vaccine database and report back with critiques and suggestions.
The final NIEHS report was a serious and thoughtful critique of where the CDC went wrong in its design, conduct and analysis of the study. The NIEHS panel "identified several serious problems," with the CDC's effort, criticism to which the agency had not responded -- until now.
In her letter to the House Appropriations Committee, the CDC Director responded directly to many -- though not all -- of the most important criticisms and recommendations contained in the NIEHS panel report.
For example, the NIEHS had criticized CDC for failing to account for other mercury exposures, including maternal sources from flu shots and immune globulin, as well as mercury in food and the environment.
"CDC acknowledges this concern and recognizes this limitation," the Gerberding reply says.
The NIEHS also took CDC to task for eliminating 25% of the study population for a variety of reasons, even though this represented, "a susceptible population whose removal from the analysis might unintentionally reduce the ability to detect an effect of thimerosal." This strict entry criteria likely led to an "under-ascertainment" of autism cases, the NIEHS reported.
"CDC concurs," Gerberding wrote, again noting that its study design was "not appropriate for studying this vaccine safety topic. The data are intended for administrative purposes and may not be predictive of the outcomes studied."
Another serious problem was that the HMOs changed the way they tracked and recorded autism diagnoses over time, including during the period when vaccine mercury levels were in decline. Such changes could "affect the observed rate of autism and could confound or distort trends in autism rates," the NIEHS warned.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote again, "that conducting an ecologic analysis using VSD administrative data to address potential associations between thimerosal exposure and risk of ASD is not useful."
Read that sentence one more time. The head of the CDC is saying that its most powerful and convincing piece of exonerating evidence for thimerosal is, in effect, "useless."
I hope everyone will read it, including the recommendations to make the VSD better, and the CDC's agreement with all of the suggestions.
As questionable at the US thimerosal study was, "it was an improvement on other studies, including the two in Denmark, both of which had serious weaknesses in their designs," Dr. Irva Hertz-Picciotto, Professor of Public Health at UC Davis Medical School and Chair of the NIEHS panel, told reporter Dan Olmsted at UPI.
That leaves very little for the CDC to go on in terms of proving that thimerosal and autism are not associated in any way.
Yes, there is always the study of disability services data from California -- which seem to be rising among the youngest cohorts of kids, who presumably received little or no mercury because thimerosal was largely removed from childhood shots.
But California is an "ecological study" with problems of its own.
"Although (this) information is often used by media and research entities to develop statistics and draw conclusions, some of these findings may misrepresent the quarterly figures," cautions the website of the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS). "Increases in the number of persons reported from one quarter to the next do not necessarily represent persons who are new to the DDS system."
Even the CDC admits that "there are several limitations" with linking a VSD study design with the California data, Gerberding wrote to Congress, because, among other things, California only counts "persons who were referred to and/or voluntarily entered" the disability system."
It will be interesting to see how the House Committee -- and the mainstream media -- react to this rather breathtaking confession by the CDC, which does seem to want to conduct the best vaccine-autism science possible (see Gerberding's replies to NIEHS recommendations for improving the VSD: CDC officials are currently conducting in- depth follow up studies with VSD patients).
As the waning months of the Bush administration get underway, I can't help but wonder if a little housecleaning might be going on at some of our top health agencies.
Citizen Jimserac - 25 Jun 2008 13:06 GMT > http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!361.entry > [quoted text clipped - 168 lines] > but wonder if a little housecleaning might be going on at some of our top > health agencies. Oh WHOOPS! Darn it, the studies were flawed...
WE'RE SORRY EVERYONE, SAYS THE CDC, BUT... DARN IT, "CDC concurs," Gerberding wrote, again noting that its study design was "not
> appropriate for studying this vaccine safety topic. The data are intended > for administrative purposes and may not be predictive of the outcomes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > analysis using VSD administrative data to address potential associations > between thimerosal exposure and risk of ASD is not useful." is NOT USEFUL??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And THIS is the data that Bowditch and Probee were using in their hysterical "defense" of vaccinations???
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING STATED BY BOWDITCH AND PROBEE IN DEFENSE OF THY-MESS-OR-SLUDGE-OL can be discarded.
Maybe they can come up with some insults or misdirection now to... you know, sort of distract attention from this major problem.
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 25 Jun 2008 13:20 GMT > >http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!361.entry > [quoted text clipped - 193 lines] > And THIS is the data that Bowditch > and Probee were using ... Actually, David Kirby is flawed. Seriously flawed.
Read the articles at this blog, written by a trained and experienced epidemiologist.
Note how Kirby's lies are well documented.
Now, do your homework, and try to remember what you have read. I posted this before, you responded, and, apparently your dysfunctional brain could not retain it.
Citizen Jimserac - 25 Jun 2008 15:19 GMT > > >http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!361.entry > [quoted text clipped - 204 lines] > posted this before, you responded, and, apparently your dysfunctional > brain could not retain it. Mark, please help us out here, I can SEE that vaccinations are REALLY TAKING A BEATING lately here in misc.health.alternative and I KNOW you've been really doing a good job with MISDIRECTIONS, INSULTS and DENIALISM, all that your one track remnant of a brain is capable of after all those years denialism, so, please, especially after articles such as THIS one (I MUS tell you about it so you can "defend" vaccinations a little better) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deirdre-imus/a-timely-truth-untold-aga_b_104711.html
I know you will help us all understand why the poison vaccines which weaken our immune system and have long term deleterious consequences are really GOOD for us and even GOOD for little babies.
Now get to work, you've got some serious explaining to do, that is if you are MENTALLY capable of it.
Good luck Probee!!!!!!
(ha ha haha hahahahaha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Citizen Jimserac
D. C. Sessions - 25 Jun 2008 16:09 GMT > I know you will help us all understand > why the poison vaccines which weaken our immune > system and have long term deleterious > consequences are really GOOD for us and > even GOOD for little babies. No, because your statement above amounts to a list of unfounded assumptions. Any conclusions drawn therefrom would be -- well, pretty much typical for you.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Citizen Jimserac - 25 Jun 2008 17:43 GMT > In message <8252fcbb-c333-4444-a61c-0bef09736...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | > +-------- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---------+ Now YOU are no idiot like Probert and therefore I supply you with THIS quote regarding congressional hearings on JUST ONE type of vaccine and the deleterious consequences that is has brought to our soldiers:
READ AND LEARN. Pay particular attention to the last sentence in the quote.
from: http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/feb_8_02/AnthrVaxRisks.htm
Congressional Hearings on Anthrax vaccine Amid anthrax worries, many veterans decry military's vaccination program
Civilians who want the anthrax vaccine but can’t get access may be surprised that a growing coalition of concerned citizens — mostly military — is decrying its use.
Many objecting to the vaccine are military veterans who say they have been severely injured by it. Others were court-martialed for refusing the inoculation. Some say the inoculation is riskier than treating anthrax infection with antibiotics.
Anthrax Vaccine: Controversy Over Safety and Efficacy
The anthrax vaccine in use remains unproven in its ability to stop a lethal dose of weaponized Bacillus anthracis spores, and there are questions about its safety. According to the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Disease (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick, MD, the anthrax vaccine used by the military was determined to be safe, and adverse reactions were found to occur only at the rate of one per 50,000 doses (less than 0.002%). This has now been revised to a rate of 0.02-0.2% or higher. Moreover, in recent testimony by one of us [M.N.] to the National Academy of Sciences the safety of the anthrax vaccine and the rates of adverse reactions were questioned. Using Dover AFB as an example, the rate of chronic health problems after receiving the anthrax vaccine may be as high as 7%. The difference is that the official rates are for acute reactions only. The Department of Defense (DoD) claims that the rate for vaccine chronic reactions is zero.
A major part of the problem in assessing vaccine safety is in how vaccine adverse effects are reported. "
There is a BIG difference between NO chronic reactions and chronic health problems reported by Dover Air Force Base at 7%.
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 25 Jun 2008 23:31 GMT > > In message <8252fcbb-c333-4444-a61c-0bef09736...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > READ AND LEARN. Pay particular attention to the > last sentence in the quote. Let's see...Jimmy does not like (or understand) what DCS wrote (most likely the lattrer) so he MISDIRECTS the conversation with anthrax.
> from:http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/feb_8_02/AnthrVaxRisks.htm > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - D. C. Sessions - 26 Jun 2008 03:16 GMT >> > In message <8252fcbb-c333-4444-a61c-0bef09736...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Let's see...Jimmy does not like (or understand) what DCS wrote (most > likely the lattrer) so he MISDIRECTS the conversation with anthrax. Yeah, well -- "when you have the facts on your side, pound on the facts. When you have the science on your side, pound on the science. When you have neither the facts nor the science on your side, pound on the table."
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Mark Probert - 26 Jun 2008 14:24 GMT > In message <06fc8990-242b-48bd-b1eb-0b5baeb1c...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the science. When you have neither the facts nor the science > on your side, pound on the table." Jimmy woul ddo himself well if he pounded the table with something other than his head.
Jan Drew - 27 Jun 2008 01:56 GMT >Jimmy Is not the subject.
D. C. Sessions - 26 Jun 2008 03:13 GMT >> In message <8252fcbb-c333-4444-a61c-0bef09736...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> unfounded assumptions. Any conclusions drawn therefrom >> would be -- well, pretty much typical for you.
> Now YOU are no idiot like Probert and therefore I supply > you with THIS quote regarding congressional hearings > on JUST ONE type of vaccine and the deleterious consequences > that is has brought to our soldiers: I'm glad that you agree that I'm no idiot -- but I would not in the least claim to be any less of one than Mark. About all you accomplish by calling him one is advertise your complete lack of anything substantive to contribute.
> READ AND LEARN. Pay particular attention to the > last sentence in the quote. ... which has nothing whatever to do with your contention quoted above.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Citizen Jimserac - 26 Jun 2008 11:52 GMT > In message <0958a2f9-539b-45a4-9b59-a2874fdef...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > About all you accomplish by calling him one is advertise > your complete lack of anything substantive to contribute. Oh excuse me, but this is the first time I've actually gotten some coherent posts from the dude. Apparently you HAVE to insult him in order to goad him into making some half decent comments. Whatever it takes!
CJ Valdeprobe is NOT a moron (it just seems that way)!
Mark Probert - 26 Jun 2008 14:25 GMT > > In message <0958a2f9-539b-45a4-9b59-a2874fdef...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > CJ > Valdeprobe is NOT a moron (it just seems that way)!- Only to the cognitively diluted.
D. C. Sessions - 27 Jun 2008 03:07 GMT >> In message <0958a2f9-539b-45a4-9b59-a2874fdef...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote:
>> > Now YOU are no idiot like Probert and therefore I supply >> > you with THIS quote regarding congressional hearings [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > him in order to goad him into making some > half decent comments. Whatever it takes! On the contrary, I don't think I have ever insulted Mark and have always gotten coherent, thoughtful posts and e-mail from him. That may be because I have instead posted rational messages. If that option isn't available to you (and I suspect that to be the case) then perhaps your only alternative is to keep dialing up the foaming abuse.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Mark Probert - 27 Jun 2008 13:41 GMT > > In message <0958a2f9-539b-45a4-9b59-a2874fdef...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > him in order to goad him into making some > half decent comments. Whatever it takes! As usual, your defective memory failed you again. I initially tried to have a LOGICAL rational discussion with you over homeoquackery. I asked you to actually prove the fundamentals, and you did the weasel and never even attempted to do so.
Instead, you began attacking me, came up with "Valdeprobe" and did a lot of couch jumping.
You are continuing that. I am confident in my initial analyis of you, i.e. that you do not have the ability to engage in a logical and rational discussion. In fact, you have never posted one message that comes even close to having me call that conclusion into question.
Jan Drew - 29 Jun 2008 06:43 GMT Leave Citizen Jimserac alone.
Citizen Jimserac - 29 Jun 2008 15:12 GMT > On Jun 26, 6:52 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > rational discussion. In fact, you have never posted one message that > comes even close to having me call that conclusion into question. Frankly, I tried resorting to insults because that was YOUR characteristic method of communication and I was UNABLE to get any rational posts from YOU.
After the insults, I discovered the quality of your posts improved and you DID come up with good arguments worthy of disucssion. Now that I've stopped the insults you're back to your old stuff again.
SAY... You're NOT PART KLINGON ARE YOU?
Anyway, I find it is just too tiresome to have to intersperse my comments with idiotic insults. Besides, as you have already figured out by now, they are intended as part of the humourous banter characteristic of this newsgroup. Each of the Gang of Four - Peter, Doc Schultz, D.C. and You have all at one time or another posted really good stuff which I find of interest and/or have learned from.
You have INDEED posted some good stuff and in fact, I tried several times to come up with a proof of the law of similars and ended up with complete mishmash unworthy of posting - but remember, Homeopathy is just a side interest for me, my main interests are Acupuncture and especially Chinese Herbology. I find the research exciting with regards to its possible benefits in cancer treatments, and, as you already must know, Chinese herbs are being used as part of the amelioration of chemotherapy treatments even by standard medicine.
I have posted a thread on this Wakefield matter which I would like you to respond to, your comments there might be of interest to me despite the fact that you are an idiot.
Many thanks Citizen Jimserac
D. C. Sessions - 29 Jun 2008 19:19 GMT > Anyway, I find it is just too tiresome to have > to intersperse my comments with idiotic insults. That should reduce the group volume rather dramatically.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Mark Probert - 26 Jun 2008 14:23 GMT > In message <0958a2f9-539b-45a4-9b59-a2874fdef...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > About all you accomplish by calling him one is advertise > your complete lack of anything substantive to contribute. Thanks, DC. Jimmy demonstrates hi slack of substance (probably diluted beyond recognition by any scientific testing) when he admits that he posted an article by Diedre Imus without reading it.
> > READ AND LEARN. Pay particular attention to the > > last sentence in the quote. > > ... which has nothing whatever to do with your contention > quoted above. Sadly, Jimmy's reading comprehension went with the dilution.
Jan Drew - 27 Jun 2008 01:58 GMT > Jimmy Is not the subject.
Jan Drew - 26 Jun 2008 06:07 GMT CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has delivered a potentially explosive report to the powerful House Appropriations Committee, in which she admits to a startling string of errors in the design and methods used in the CDC's landmark 2003 study that found no link between mercury in vaccines and autism, ADHD, speech delay or tics.
Gerberding was responding to a 2006 report from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), which concluded that the CDC's flagship thimerosal safety study was riddled with "several areas of weaknesses" that combined to "reduce the usefulness" of the study.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote in an undated mea culpa to Congress, (provided to me through a Capitol Hill staffer) adding that her agency "does not plan to use" the database in question, the Vaccine Safety Datalink, (VSD) for any future "ecological studies" of autism.
In fact, Gerberding's report said, any continued use of the VSD for similar ecological studies of vaccines and autism "would be uninformative and potentially misleading."
Ecological vaccine studies are large, epidemiological analyses of risks and trends using computerized data from large populations -- in this case children enrolled at several big HMOs -- without ever examining a single patient in person.
CDC officials conducted at least five separate analyses of the data over a four-year period from 1999-2003. The first analysis showed that children exposed to the most thimerosal by one month of age had extremely high relative risks for a number of outcomes, compared with children who got little or no mercury: The relative risk for ADHD was 8.29 times higher, for autism, it was 7.62 times higher, ADD, 6.38 times higher, tics, 5.65 times, and speech and language delays were 2.09 more likely among kids who got the most mercury.
Over time, however, all of these risks declined into statistical insignificance, statistical inconsistency or else outright oblivion: The relative risk for autism plummeted from 7.62 in the first analysis, to 2.48 in the second version, to 1.69 in the third round, to 1.52 in the fourth, and down to nothing at all in the fifth, final, and published analysis printed in the Journal Pediatrics in November of 2003.
Vaccine officials attributed the steady drop to the elimination of "statistical noise" from the data through due diligence and the endeavor for excellence in governmental statistical analysis.
Indeed, the VSD study was the main pillar of a hugely influential 2004 report by the Institute of Medicine, which also concluded that there was no evidence of link between mercury, vaccines and autism.
To this day, public health officials routinely point to five "large epidemiological studies" representing the "highest quality science," none of which found any link to thimerosal.
In fact, the American VSD study has long been held up as the best and brightest of them all (the others were in Sweden, the UK, and two in Denmark). And this reputation has stuck in the minds of medicine and the media.
Curiously though, even the study's lead author -- Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, an employee of vaccine maker GlaxoSmithKline -- protested that the VSD study "found no evidence against an association, as a negative study would. In fact, he said that additional study was needed, which "is the conclusion to which a neutral study must come."
That's when Congress stepped in.
In 2005, a group of Senators and Representatives headed by Sen. Joe Lieberman wrote to the NIEHS (an agency of the National Institutes of Health) saying that many parents no longer trusted the CDC to conduct independent minded studies of its own vaccine program. Lieberman et al asked NIEHS to review the CDC's work on the vaccine database and report back with critiques and suggestions.
The final NIEHS report was a serious and thoughtful critique of where the CDC went wrong in its design, conduct and analysis of the study. The NIEHS panel "identified several serious problems," with the CDC's effort, criticism to which the agency had not responded -- until now.
In her letter to the House Appropriations Committee, the CDC Director responded directly to many -- though not all -- of the most important criticisms and recommendations contained in the NIEHS panel report.
For example, the NIEHS had criticized CDC for failing to account for other mercury exposures, including maternal sources from flu shots and immune globulin, as well as mercury in food and the environment.
"CDC acknowledges this concern and recognizes this limitation," the Gerberding reply says.
The NIEHS also took CDC to task for eliminating 25% of the study population for a variety of reasons, even though this represented, "a susceptible population whose removal from the analysis might unintentionally reduce the ability to detect an effect of thimerosal." This strict entry criteria likely led to an "under-ascertainment" of autism cases, the NIEHS reported.
"CDC concurs," Gerberding wrote, again noting that its study design was "not appropriate for studying this vaccine safety topic. The data are intended for administrative purposes and may not be predictive of the outcomes studied."
Another serious problem was that the HMOs changed the way they tracked and recorded autism diagnoses over time, including during the period when vaccine mercury levels were in decline. Such changes could "affect the observed rate of autism and could confound or distort trends in autism rates," the NIEHS warned.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote again, "that conducting an ecologic analysis using VSD administrative data to address potential associations between thimerosal exposure and risk of ASD is not useful."
Read that sentence one more time. The head of the CDC is saying that its most powerful and convincing piece of exonerating evidence for thimerosal is, in effect, "useless."
I hope everyone will read it, including the recommendations to make the VSD better, and the CDC's agreement with all of the suggestions.
As questionable at the US thimerosal study was, "it was an improvement on other studies, including the two in Denmark, both of which had serious weaknesses in their designs," Dr. Irva Hertz-Picciotto, Professor of Public Health at UC Davis Medical School and Chair of the NIEHS panel, told reporter Dan Olmsted at UPI.
That leaves very little for the CDC to go on in terms of proving that thimerosal and autism are not associated in any way.
Yes, there is always the study of disability services data from California -- which seem to be rising among the youngest cohorts of kids, who presumably received little or no mercury because thimerosal was largely removed from childhood shots.
But California is an "ecological study" with problems of its own.
"Although (this) information is often used by media and research entities to develop statistics and draw conclusions, some of these findings may misrepresent the quarterly figures," cautions the website of the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS). "Increases in the number of persons reported from one quarter to the next do not necessarily represent persons who are new to the DDS system."
Even the CDC admits that "there are several limitations" with linking a VSD study design with the California data, Gerberding wrote to Congress, because, among other things, California only counts "persons who were referred to and/or voluntarily entered" the disability system."
It will be interesting to see how the House Committee -- and the mainstream media -- react to this rather breathtaking confession by the CDC, which does seem to want to conduct the best vaccine-autism science possible (see Gerberding's replies to NIEHS recommendations for improving the VSD: CDC officials are currently conducting in- depth follow up studies with VSD patients).
Citizen Jimserac - 26 Jun 2008 11:56 GMT > CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has delivered a potentially explosive > report to the powerful House Appropriations Committee, in which she admits [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > flagship thimerosal safety study was riddled with "several areas of > weaknesses" that combined to "reduce the usefulness" of the study. Oh NO!!!!!! I just exchanged some posts with robot Proby in which he actually maintained several coherent sentences and semblance of a rational argument BASED ON CDC information.
Poor PROBY!!! It's back to the drawing board for him.
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 26 Jun 2008 14:27 GMT > > CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has delivered a potentially explosive > > report to the powerful House Appropriations Committee, in which she admits [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Poor PROBY!!! It's back to the drawing > board for him. No, dumbass, you are wrong. That tortured twisting of the original report was addessed previously and showed that the writer either lied, or did not have a clue about what they were reading.
Of course, with your diluted cognition, you are incapable of remembering that.
Citizen Jimserac - 26 Jun 2008 22:46 GMT > On Jun 26, 6:56 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Of course, with your diluted cognition, you are incapable of > remembering that. Merc Proby produces sentences of some syntactical structure but the semantics is, to utilize peter's excelent phrase, vacuous. Now HERE, he has NO answers regarding the criticisms of a CDC report other than to deny the criticisms and attack the author.
Deny and attack. Deny and attack. Deny and attack Deny and attack. Deny and attack.....
It's like a busted CD player with you Proby, DON'T you ever post anything original? OH WAIT!!! That would take rational thought, and Proby has abandoned all reason in his mad pursuit of favoritism towards big pharma and big vacca.
For a nitwit, a fairly intelligent dumbell, Proby somewhere is missing some key cognitive links.... WAIT, I KNOW!!!!! PROBY, CHECK YOUR SHOULDERS AND BACK ... DO YOU HAVE THICK HAIR GROWING OUT OF THERE?
PROBY MIGHT BE THE MISSING LINK BETWEEN MAN AND APE!!!! YES THAT'S IT!!!!!
Proby is a TROGLODYTE!!!!!! Well that begins to explain EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!
Living in a cave all the time, NO WONDER Proby has a mixed up idea about what's going on. The poor guy must think the vaccination companies are the government and that he's being patriotic by blindly supporting their every fallacious fear mongering assertion!!!
Does anyone know of a zoo that might accept Proby, those cold dark caves have obviously affected him!!!!
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 26 Jun 2008 23:13 GMT > > On Jun 26, 6:56 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > the criticisms of a CDC report other than to deny > the criticisms and attack the author. Listen, asswipe, I posted the definitive criticisms of KirbyKrap the other day. I do not have to go and repost them if your meory is so diluted that you cannot remember them.
> Deny and attack. > Deny and attack. > Deny and attack > Deny and attack. > Deny and attack..... Yes, that is precisely what you are doing by reposting the same thing over and over and over....
> It's like a busted CD player with you Proby, > DON'T you ever post anything original? Do learn how to remember. Perhaps an adult ed course at your high school can help.
> OH WAIT!!! That would take rational thought, How would you know? Your connection with rational thought is non- existent.
> and Proby has abandoned all reason in his mad > pursuit of favoritism towards big pharma > and big vacca. Chuckle.
> For a nitwit, a fairly intelligent dumbell Being self-referential again?
> Proby somewhere is missing some key cognitive > links.... WAIT, I KNOW!!!!! PROBY, CHECK YOUR SHOULDERS > AND BACK ... DO YOU HAVE THICK HAIR GROWING OUT > OF THERE? Not even close. I do admire your ability to drag your knuckles off the floor so you can type.
> PROBY MIGHT BE THE MISSING LINK BETWEEN > MAN AND APE!!!! YES THAT'S IT!!!!! Couch Jumping.
> Proby is a TROGLODYTE!!!!!! Well that > begins to explain EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Proby, those cold dark caves have obviously > affected him!!!! The only cold, dark place around here is your cranial cavity.
Jan Drew - 27 Jun 2008 02:00 GMT CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding has delivered a potentially explosive report to the powerful House Appropriations Committee, in which she admits to a startling string of errors in the design and methods used in the CDC's landmark 2003 study that found no link between mercury in vaccines and autism, ADHD, speech delay or tics.
Gerberding was responding to a 2006 report from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS), which concluded that the CDC's flagship thimerosal safety study was riddled with "several areas of weaknesses" that combined to "reduce the usefulness" of the study.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote in an undated mea culpa to Congress, (provided to me through a Capitol Hill staffer) adding that her agency "does not plan to use" the database in question, the Vaccine Safety Datalink, (VSD) for any future "ecological studies" of autism.
In fact, Gerberding's report said, any continued use of the VSD for similar ecological studies of vaccines and autism "would be uninformative and potentially misleading."
Ecological vaccine studies are large, epidemiological analyses of risks and trends using computerized data from large populations -- in this case children enrolled at several big HMOs -- without ever examining a single patient in person.
CDC officials conducted at least five separate analyses of the data over a four-year period from 1999-2003. The first analysis showed that children exposed to the most thimerosal by one month of age had extremely high relative risks for a number of outcomes, compared with children who got little or no mercury: The relative risk for ADHD was 8.29 times higher, for autism, it was 7.62 times higher, ADD, 6.38 times higher, tics, 5.65 times, and speech and language delays were 2.09 more likely among kids who got the most mercury.
Over time, however, all of these risks declined into statistical insignificance, statistical inconsistency or else outright oblivion: The relative risk for autism plummeted from 7.62 in the first analysis, to 2.48 in the second version, to 1.69 in the third round, to 1.52 in the fourth, and down to nothing at all in the fifth, final, and published analysis printed in the Journal Pediatrics in November of 2003.
Vaccine officials attributed the steady drop to the elimination of "statistical noise" from the data through due diligence and the endeavor for excellence in governmental statistical analysis.
Indeed, the VSD study was the main pillar of a hugely influential 2004 report by the Institute of Medicine, which also concluded that there was no evidence of link between mercury, vaccines and autism.
To this day, public health officials routinely point to five "large epidemiological studies" representing the "highest quality science," none of which found any link to thimerosal.
In fact, the American VSD study has long been held up as the best and brightest of them all (the others were in Sweden, the UK, and two in Denmark). And this reputation has stuck in the minds of medicine and the media.
Curiously though, even the study's lead author -- Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, an employee of vaccine maker GlaxoSmithKline -- protested that the VSD study "found no evidence against an association, as a negative study would. In fact, he said that additional study was needed, which "is the conclusion to which a neutral study must come."
That's when Congress stepped in.
In 2005, a group of Senators and Representatives headed by Sen. Joe Lieberman wrote to the NIEHS (an agency of the National Institutes of Health) saying that many parents no longer trusted the CDC to conduct independent minded studies of its own vaccine program. Lieberman et al asked NIEHS to review the CDC's work on the vaccine database and report back with critiques and suggestions.
The final NIEHS report was a serious and thoughtful critique of where the CDC went wrong in its design, conduct and analysis of the study. The NIEHS panel "identified several serious problems," with the CDC's effort, criticism to which the agency had not responded -- until now.
In her letter to the House Appropriations Committee, the CDC Director responded directly to many -- though not all -- of the most important criticisms and recommendations contained in the NIEHS panel report.
For example, the NIEHS had criticized CDC for failing to account for other mercury exposures, including maternal sources from flu shots and immune globulin, as well as mercury in food and the environment.
"CDC acknowledges this concern and recognizes this limitation," the Gerberding reply says.
The NIEHS also took CDC to task for eliminating 25% of the study population for a variety of reasons, even though this represented, "a susceptible population whose removal from the analysis might unintentionally reduce the ability to detect an effect of thimerosal." This strict entry criteria likely led to an "under-ascertainment" of autism cases, the NIEHS reported.
"CDC concurs," Gerberding wrote, again noting that its study design was "not appropriate for studying this vaccine safety topic. The data are intended for administrative purposes and may not be predictive of the outcomes studied."
Another serious problem was that the HMOs changed the way they tracked and recorded autism diagnoses over time, including during the period when vaccine mercury levels were in decline. Such changes could "affect the observed rate of autism and could confound or distort trends in autism rates," the NIEHS warned.
"CDC concurs," Dr. Gerberding wrote again, "that conducting an ecologic analysis using VSD administrative data to address potential associations between thimerosal exposure and risk of ASD is not useful."
Read that sentence one more time. The head of the CDC is saying that its most powerful and convincing piece of exonerating evidence for thimerosal is, in effect, "useless."
I hope everyone will read it, including the recommendations to make the VSD better, and the CDC's agreement with all of the suggestions.
As questionable at the US thimerosal study was, "it was an improvement on other studies, including the two in Denmark, both of which had serious weaknesses in their designs," Dr. Irva Hertz-Picciotto, Professor of Public Health at UC Davis Medical School and Chair of the NIEHS panel, told reporter Dan Olmsted at UPI.
That leaves very little for the CDC to go on in terms of proving that thimerosal and autism are not associated in any way.
Yes, there is always the study of disability services data from California -- which seem to be rising among the youngest cohorts of kids, who presumably received little or no mercury because thimerosal was largely removed from childhood shots.
But California is an "ecological study" with problems of its own.
"Although (this) information is often used by media and research entities to develop statistics and draw conclusions, some of these findings may misrepresent the quarterly figures," cautions the website of the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS). "Increases in the number of persons reported from one quarter to the next do not necessarily represent persons who are new to the DDS system."
Even the CDC admits that "there are several limitations" with linking a VSD study design with the California data, Gerberding wrote to Congress, because, among other things, California only counts "persons who were referred to and/or voluntarily entered" the disability system."
It will be interesting to see how the House Committee -- and the mainstream media -- react to this rather breathtaking confession by the CDC, which does seem to want to conduct the best vaccine-autism science possible (see Gerberding's replies to NIEHS recommendations for improving the VSD: CDC officials are currently conducting in- depth follow up studies with VSD patients).
Citizen Jimserac - 27 Jun 2008 11:43 GMT > On Jun 26, 5:46 pm, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > The only cold, dark place around here is your cranial cavity. Well Proby, since you have FINALLY made some half decent posts when insulted, do you suppose we could exchange some comments WITHOUT these preposterous insults. I really find this rather tiresome.
Citizen Jimserac
Jan Drew - 27 Jun 2008 01:54 GMT ... On Jun 25, 8:06 am, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 6:30 pm, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 244 lines] > And THIS is the data that Bowditch > and Probee were using ... D. C. Sessions - 25 Jun 2008 13:47 GMT (David Kirby)
> is NOT USEFUL??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quite right. Rather than take one of Kirby's spins on the material (he's rapidly changing his story in response to being caught out) you might actually go back to the source.
The "ecological studies are not useful" was in the context of an inquiry into design of a new study with more power than those previously conducted. The conclusion was that there was nothing new to be had from an ecological study and that any new study would have to gather more individual data.
That doesn't work nearly as well for headlines, though.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Mark Probert - 25 Jun 2008 23:29 GMT > In message <6aebbcf6-a1ad-4d04-b3e8-906ec3de3...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > That doesn't work nearly as well for headlines, though. Nor for Jimmy. I am sure he does not have a clue about what you just wrote.
Jan Drew - 26 Jun 2008 06:13 GMT > http://theresma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!80EE15D075B65A13!361.entry > [quoted text clipped - 169 lines] > but wonder if a little housecleaning might be going on at some of our top > health agencies.
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