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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / June 2008

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Will Ted Kennedy get Acupuncture at Duke?

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The One True Zhen Jue - 02 Jun 2008 16:21 GMT
Senator Ted Kennedy is undergoing surgery to debulk a brain tumor.
He's chosen to have that procedure done at Duke University.  Not
surprisingly, that medical university offers acupuncture in their
hospitals.  I wonder if Senator Kennedy will get post-surgical
acupuncture to reduce nausea, pain, and the need for opiods.

http://anesthesia.duke.edu/news/opioid-need.htm

DURHAM, N.C. – Using acupuncture before and during surgery
significantly reduces the level of pain and the amount of potent
painkillers needed by patients after the surgery is over, according to
Duke University Medical Center anesthesiologists who combined data
from 15 small randomized acupuncture clinical trials.

If so, will it be performed by one of the (MD) anesthesiologists or
will it be performed by a Licensed Acupuncturist?  (L.Ac)

http://www.hr.duke.edu/jobs/descr_duhs/select.php?ID=4564
Martin - 02 Jun 2008 18:07 GMT
>Senator Ted Kennedy is undergoing surgery to debulk a brain tumor.
>He's chosen to have that procedure done at Duke University.  Not
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>http://www.hr.duke.edu/jobs/descr_duhs/select.php?ID=4564

It doesn't matter who does it, and it doesn't matter where they stick
the needle(s) either. In fact, it doesn't even matter if they use
needles or not.
The One True Zhen Jue - 02 Jun 2008 19:58 GMT
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT), The One True Zhen Jue
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> the needle(s) either. In fact, it doesn't even matter if they use
> needles or not.- Hide quoted text -

To you, those things do not matter.  We had you stymied at
"acupuncture", just like Richard.  Just think, not only do the men and
women of the armed forces benefit from acupuncture, so too, could the
most powerful members of our legislature.

By the way, do let me know when you've succeeded in having acupuncture
banished from the Airforce, Academia, or Anesthesiology Fellowships.
I'll be here if you want to say "I told you so!".

> - Show quoted text -
The One True Zhen Jue - 03 Jun 2008 00:46 GMT
On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

The idea of Kennedy getting acupuncture has certainly occured to an
expert oncologist:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/05/26/oncologist_on_kennedy/

Dr. Andrew Norden, a neuro-oncologist at the Dana-Farber Cancer
Institute and neurologist at Brigham and Women's Hospital, answered
questions from boston.com readers last week in the wake of the news
that Senator Edward M. Kennedy has been diagnosed with a malignant
brain tumor. Norden is not treating Kennedy. Here are excerpts from
his online chat, available at boston.com/news/health:

Q: The news is viewed in the media as uniformly grim. Is a glioma by
definition fatal?

A: Unfortunately, the majority of gliomas are ultimately fatal. A
small number of patients have very long survival.

Q: Do you think at the time of Kennedy's surgery last fall for removal
of plaque in the carotid artery that a brain MRI was conducted?

A: Probably yes. And in all likelihood, this tumor was not present at
that time.

Q: I am wondering why there cannot be an agreed-upon screening test
for brain tumors, much like a colonoscopy.

A: Unfortunately, malignant brain tumors like the senator's grow
quickly, often in a period of a few months. Plus, if we did frequent
scans as you suggest, we would detect a lot of abnormalities that
might not be important. Patients might end up with unnecessary brain
biopsies.

Q: Any idea why he would be released [from the hospital] so quickly?
Why are they not attacking this ASAP?

A: Generally, we wait at least 10-14 days after surgery for adequate
healing before starting radiation and chemotherapy. If you start too
early there is a risk that the surgical wound will reopen.

Q: What is the next step in his diagnosis? Will they test to determine
exactly what stage the tumor is in?

A: Yes, the pathologist is now working to determine the exact subtype.
Some molecular studies may also be used to better predict prognosis.

Q: Could you discuss some of the cutting edge therapies for gliomas?
And because this is such a deadly cancer, please include any
alternative/complementary therapies that might help one's own body
beat back the disease.

A: We are increasingly using "targeted molecular therapies" for
gliomas. These are drugs that target specific molecular changes in the
tumors. Also quite promising are treatments that target blood vessels,
called anti-angiogenic therapies. At the moment, I am not aware of any
alternative therapies that help to treat the tumors, but these
treatments (e.g. acupuncture, massage, others) are very useful for
management of symptoms such as nausea, fatigue, and headaches that
some glioma patients experience.

Q: Is it reasonable to expect someone undergoing treatment for an
advanced, aggressive glioma to continue a normal work schedule?

A: Some of my patients are able to maintain very busy schedules during
treatment. Most of my patients, though, experience fatigue that
prompts them to cut back. I advise my patients to plan for a
significant reduction in work hours.

Q: What do you tell patients who are receiving a diagnosis as
devastating as the senator's?

A: It's a difficult conversation, of course. I focus on the fact that
treatments are constantly improving and that I will help the patient
through the difficult road ahead.

Q: How do you give patients hope?

A: I focus on the emerging research and new drugs. And if all of our
treatments fail, I focus on helpingP them to achieve a good death.
The One True Zhen Jue - 03 Jun 2008 00:52 GMT
Reasons why Kennedy should get acupuncture:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/01/AR2008060100750.html

Acupuncture Eases Side Effects of Head, Neck Cancer Treatments
Richard Schultz - 03 Jun 2008 06:00 GMT
: Acupuncture Eases Side Effects of Head, Neck Cancer Treatments

Have you read the original article that reported the results of the 2004
osteoarthritis study?

Have you read any of the citations that I posted in February?

Have you read either of the citations that I posted that present evidence
that acupuncture is no more effective than a placebo in treating people
addicted to smoking?

Have you read the article that I cited that presented evidence that
acupuncture is not effective against constipation?

<crickets chirping>

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"
Jan Drew - 04 Jun 2008 03:59 GMT
Groups    View all web results »    Results 1 - 10 of 14 for schultr@ mail
.biu.ack. il Have you read the original article that reported the results of
the 2004 osteoarthritis study ?
Richard Schultz - 03 Jun 2008 05:59 GMT
: To you, those things do not matter.  We had you stymied at
: "acupuncture", just like Richard.  Just think, not only do the men and
: women of the armed forces benefit from acupuncture, so too, could the
: most powerful members of our legislature.

Have you read the original article that reported the results of the 2004
osteoarthritis study?

Have you read any of the citations that I posted in February?

Have you read either of the citations that I posted that present evidence
that acupuncture is no more effective than a placebo in treating people
addicted to smoking?

Have you read the article that I cited that presented evidence that
acupuncture is not effective against constipation?

<crickets chirping>

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"
Jan Drew - 04 Jun 2008 03:56 GMT
"Richard Schultz's repeated blathering
deleted...................................
Martin - 03 Jun 2008 16:54 GMT
>> <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Senator Ted Kennedy is undergoing surgery to debulk a brain tumor.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>banished from the Airforce, Academia, or Anesthesiology Fellowships.
>I'll be here if you want to say "I told you so!".

As long as we have prime ministers (tony blair) and presidents who
believe in astrology, I'm not holding my breath that similar nonsense
like acupuncture is going away soon.
 
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