Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008
Acupuncture at Stanford University
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The One True Zhen Jue - 23 May 2008 17:11 GMT Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use acupuncture in their hospitals. The second to last paragraph shows just how well accepted acupuncture is within mainstream medicine. At any rate, the idea of anesthesiologists using acupuncture makes perfect sense.
"Acupuncture treatments were already available to outpatients at Stanford through the Center for Integrative Medicine, and to patients at Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and Integrative Medicine clinic. Since the division’s official launch in July, it has also put a physician on call five days a week for acupuncture consultations for inpatients at both Packard and Stanford hospitals. "
http://med.stanford.edu/patient_care/spotlight/archive/acupuncture.html
East meets West as hospitals offer inpatients the healing power of acupuncture By Shawna Williams
Anesthesiologist Emily Ratner, MD, administers acupuncture treatment for back pain. Ratner and Brenda Golianu co-direct the new division of medical acupuncture, which now provides both inpatient and outpatient services at Stanford's two hospitals.
Afraid of needles? The work of two medical center anesthesiologists could change your mind. They’ve seen firsthand that acupuncture can ease pain and help patients relax – not exactly the reactions most people associate with the sight of sharp, glinting steel.
Brenda Golianu, MD, assistant professor of anesthesia, and Emily Ratner, MD, associate professor of anesthesia, are co-directors of the Department of Anesthesia’s new division of medical acupuncture. One of their primary goals is to give patients at Stanford’s two hospitals access to the healing power of needles.
Acupuncture, which consists of putting needles into strategic spots on a person’s skin, can complement Western procedures, Ratner said. Studies have shown that acupuncture often relieves common post- operative problems such as nausea, vomiting and pain, and may also alleviate post-operative ileus, a condition in which the intestines temporarily stop working after an operation. At Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital, Golianu and others are studying whether acupuncture can help children require fewer sedatives while intubated.
Acupuncture, which the Chinese have practiced for thousands of years, is designed to restore the balanced flow of energy, or chi, in the body. It remained relatively unknown in the United States until 1972 when a New York Times reporter in China had to have his appendix removed. Treated post-operatively with acupuncture, he was impressed with the results and wrote a front-page article about the experience, sparking widespread interest in the subject.
In 1997, the National Institutes of Health released a consensus statement listing specific conditions that acupuncture had been proven to treat effectively and stating that “further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.”
“That statement really opened the doors for the use of acupuncture because it paved the way for a number of insurance companies to cover acupuncture treatments,” Golianu said.
Although Western researchers now agree that acupuncture works for certain conditions, they have yet to discover why. Imaging studies reveal that needling certain points changes blood flow in the brain, and others have shown acupuncture causes the release of endorphins, the body’s natural painkillers. But, said Golianu, “there’s still a black box in terms of the mechanism of action.”
“People say to me, ‘How can you do that because you don’t even know how it works?’ And I say, well, nobody knows how general anesthetics work either,” Ratner said. “But obviously we’d like to understand the basis of how it works.”
Golianu first became interested in acupuncture while in college when she spent her junior year studying in Taiwan and the People’s Republic of China. Intrigued by her observations of the efficacy of acupuncture, she returned several times during medical school to Taiwan and studied at the China Medical College. She also spent six months in a clinic in Japan. She completed an intensive acupuncture certification program for physicians offered through UCLA and began to practice it along with the techniques she’d learned in medical school.
As for Ratner, she had an epiphany while on sabbatical. “I came to this realization that there are a lot of patients that fall between the cracks in Western medicine,” she said. On returning to Stanford she called Golianu, who invited her to observe treatments at the Center for Integrative Medicine. Ratner eventually completed the UCLA course as well. “It became pretty clear to me that this was a whole avenue where we could make a huge difference in the lives of multitudes of patients,” she said.
An example, Golianu said, is a 20-year-old man she treated recently who is dying of graft-versus-host disease, a complication of bone marrow transplants in which the donated bone marrow attacks the recipient’s organs and tissues. He was hospitalized because he was on high doses of opiates to control back pain, but was also taking valium and experiencing breathing difficulties. “Then one day I stuck in six needles with some electrical stimulation and he was comfortable for the first time in months,” she said.
Golianu and Ratner hope to bring similar relief to other patients. “You can look at it as East meets West,” Ratner said. “We’re looking to provide the best of both traditions to patients who are in the hospital receiving complex medical care.”
“Acupuncture therapy has been used for centuries and has been largely ignored by Western medicine,” said Ron Pearl, MD, PhD, professor and chair of the Department of Anesthesia. “Our pain-management physicians have used acupuncture for at least a decade, but what’s new is creating a structured program to expand its use. One of the things we can offer at Stanford is to learn more about when acupuncture works, how it works and what we can do better.”
Acupuncture treatments were already available to outpatients at Stanford through the Center for Integrative Medicine, and to patients at Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and Integrative Medicine clinic. Since the division’s official launch in July, it has also put a physician on call five days a week for acupuncture consultations for inpatients at both Packard and Stanford hospitals.
Eventually, Ratner and Golianu would like to expand the division to include more patient services, acupuncture education for medical students, residents and doctors, and an expanded research component.
Citizen Jimserac - 23 May 2008 19:32 GMT On May 23, 12:11 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use > acupuncture in their hospitals. The second to last paragraph shows [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > include more patient services, acupuncture education for medical > students, residents and doctors, and an expanded research component. All this too! Wow, I just KNEW there was a reason that I was studying Acupuncture.
Anyone who PERSISTS in denying its efficacy now would look like an IDIOT.
Any takers?
Citizen Jimserac
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 14:36 GMT > On May 23, 12:11 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] > > Any takers? Richard got an early start.
> Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 08:20 GMT : Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use : acupuncture in their hospitals. The second to last paragraph shows [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : at Lucile Packard Children?s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and : Integrative Medicine clinic. Why is it that when I pointed out that the University of Maryland has an MD on staff who provides reflexology treatments, you refused to consider that evidence that reflexology is becoming accepted within mainstream medicine?
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
news - 25 May 2008 11:18 GMT Richard's drooling removed.
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 14:35 GMT > In article <139a550e-f211-4a5f-9640-a7e8d31a7...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that evidence that reflexology is becoming accepted within mainstream > medicine? They have an MD who is practicing reflexology there? Please provide a citation and the MD's name.
> ----- > Richard Schultz schu...@mail.biu.ac.il > Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel > Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University > ----- > "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 14:46 GMT :> Why is it that when I pointed out that the University of Maryland has an :> MD on staff who provides reflexology treatments, you refused to consider [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : They have an MD who is practicing reflexology there? Please provide a : citation and the MD's name. My mistake. She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University of Maryland School of Medicine. Why do you not consider her presence at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance" of reflexology? Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "I daresay there's truth in yon Latin book on your shelves; but it's gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words." --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 15:28 GMT > In article <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > My mistake. No problemo.
She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University
> of Maryland School of Medicine. Why do you not consider her presence > at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance" > of reflexology? It is a notion I never considered before you brought it up. Perhaps your assertion that this "reflexology" thing is gaining acceptance is worthy of investigation. Get back to me with the number of US MD's practicing it, the number of accreditted US medical schools who train MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic. I'll wait.
> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology? I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it. On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very knowledgable about it.
> ----- > Richard Schultz schu...@mail.biu.ac.il [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words." > --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_ Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 16:12 GMT :> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology? : : I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it. This is a lie. Your opposition to it is demonstrated by your refusal to learn anything about it or even to attempt to explain why you think it doesn't work.
: On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very : knowledgable about it. This is another lie. I am only "opposed" to acupuncture in the sense that I object to claims being made for it for which there is no support (e.g. "acupuncture is an effective treatment for people who want to quit smoking"), and in the sense that I object to people choosing a treatment when there is a more effective one available to them. As I have explained to you ad nauseum (doubtless you will tell me that I should undergo acupuncture treatments for that), I believe that no strong evidence that acupuncture works better than a placebo has been provided, and that *if* such evidence ever is provided, the explanation for how acupuncture works will almost certainly not depend on Qi or meridians.
It is not my nature to reveal irrelevant personal details, but I can assure you that there is at least one person of my acquaintance (not me, fortunately) who suffers from a complaint that on occasion causes extreme discomfort. If acupuncture could be shown to be an effective therapy, I would be happy indeed.
As for not being very knowledgable about acupuncture, it is true that I do not know many of the details of the practice. It is also true that every time I ask you to explain them, you either refuse to answer (e.g. the article that I posted explaining the history of the concept of meridians), or run away once your answers are shown to be inadequate (e.g. your explanations of Qi contradicting those provided by experts in the field). One thing that I can do is read journal articles and interpret them, and I can tell the difference between a well-designed experiment and a poorly designe one. This latter ability is clearly beyond you, as evidenced by your failure, once again, to respond to or even acknowledge the questions that I asked you about various reports of the efficacy (or lack thereof) of acupuncture -- including one study that *you* have cited.
As I said before, I do not believe that in general acupuncturists are frauds, because as far as I can tell, they sincerely believe that what they are doing works. But if you are treating patients for nicotine addiction and taking money for it without informing them that the literature indicates that acupuncture works no better than a placebo, you are in my opinion coming very close.
And I'm not sure why you find people posting on subjects about which they are poorly informed to be so objectionable. After all, you do it all the time, and have on at least one occasion persisted in your errors even after they were explained to you.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- The gardener plants an evergreen whilst trampling on a flower. . .
Jan Drew - 26 May 2008 04:28 GMT > In article > <ac905d06-a1c4-4ffc-a62d-53db3742272b@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, The One > True Zhen Jue <Andrew_Kingoff@yahoo.com> wrote: Now--I will post the correct way. So people can read what he wrote, not this in article crapola.
> In article > <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > My mistake. No problemo.
She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University
> of Maryland School of Medicine. Why do you not consider her presence > at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance" > of reflexology? It is a notion I never considered before you brought it up. Perhaps your assertion that this "reflexology" thing is gaining acceptance is worthy of investigation. Get back to me with the number of US MD's practicing it, the number of accreditted US medical schools who train MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic. I'll wait.
> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology? I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it. On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very knowledgable about it.
> ----- > Richard Schultz schu...@mail.biu.ac.il [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words." > --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
> :> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology? > : > : I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it. > > This is a lie. Care to prove it? Oh, forgot you don't know the definition of a lie.
Your opposition to it is demonstrated by your refusal to
> learn anything about it or even to attempt to explain why you think it > doesn't work. Um, no. Not learning about something because one is not interested is not a lie.
> : On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very > : knowledgable about it. > > This is another lie. lol. Richey baby is desperate, because he is guilty of so many lies on this subject, and others.
I am only "opposed" to acupuncture in the sense that
> I object to claims being made for it for which there is no support (e.g. > "acupuncture is an effective treatment for people who want to quit > smoking"), and in the sense that I object to people choosing a treatment > when there is a more effective one available to them. Each person has the right to chose their own treatment.
As I have explained
> to you ad nauseum (doubtless you will tell me that I should undergo > acupuncture treatments for that), I believe that no strong evidence that > acupuncture works better than a placebo has been provided, You have the right to believe a lie and you do.
and that *if*
> such evidence ever is provided, the explanation for how acupuncture works > will almost certainly not depend on Qi or meridians. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > discomfort. If acupuncture could be shown to be an effective therapy, I > would be happy indeed. You know what your buddy Mark Probert says about anecdotes.
> As for not being very knowledgable about acupuncture, it is true that I > do not know many of the details of the practice. It is also true that > every > time I ask you to explain them, you either refuse to answer Blatant lie.
Insults delelted
> ----- > Richard Schultz Kelley Eidem - 26 May 2008 19:05 GMT On May 25, 9:28 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > In article <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic. > I'll wait. It's doubtful that M.D.'s would ever be the ones administering foot reflexology because it takes time. Similarly, dentists don't clean teeth; their dental hygienist does that.
In my first experience with a wholistic physician, he used a probe on the bottom of my feet to see which spots were sensitive, applying the idea of foot reflexology to help him get a sense of which organs were under stress.
He helped me to recover from chronic kidney disease (biopsy: glomerulinephritis [sp?]) After five years of recurring symptoms that included on occasion urine the color of coca cola, I have not had any problems for over 30 years.
No, it was cured with reflexology. It was just a part of the evaluation.
> > Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words." > > --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
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