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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008

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Acupuncture at Stanford University

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The One True Zhen Jue - 23 May 2008 17:11 GMT
Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use
acupuncture in their hospitals.  The second to last paragraph shows
just how well accepted acupuncture is within mainstream medicine.  At
any rate, the idea of anesthesiologists using acupuncture makes
perfect sense.

"Acupuncture treatments were already available to outpatients at
Stanford through the Center for Integrative Medicine, and to patients
at Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and
Integrative Medicine clinic. Since the division’s official launch in
July, it has also put a physician on call five days a week for
acupuncture consultations for inpatients at both Packard and Stanford
hospitals. "

http://med.stanford.edu/patient_care/spotlight/archive/acupuncture.html

East meets West as hospitals offer inpatients the healing power of
acupuncture
By Shawna Williams

Anesthesiologist Emily Ratner, MD, administers acupuncture treatment
for back pain. Ratner and Brenda Golianu co-direct the new division of
medical acupuncture, which now provides both inpatient and outpatient
services at Stanford's two hospitals.

Afraid of needles? The work of two medical center anesthesiologists
could change your mind. They’ve seen firsthand that acupuncture can
ease pain and help patients relax – not exactly the reactions most
people associate with the sight of sharp, glinting steel.

Brenda Golianu, MD, assistant professor of anesthesia, and Emily
Ratner, MD, associate professor of anesthesia, are co-directors of the
Department of Anesthesia’s new division of medical acupuncture. One of
their primary goals is to give patients at Stanford’s two hospitals
access to the healing power of needles.

Acupuncture, which consists of putting needles into strategic spots on
a person’s skin, can complement Western procedures, Ratner said.
Studies have shown that acupuncture often relieves common post-
operative problems such as nausea, vomiting and pain, and may also
alleviate post-operative ileus, a condition in which the intestines
temporarily stop working after an operation. At Lucile Packard
Children’s Hospital, Golianu and others are studying whether
acupuncture can help children require fewer sedatives while
intubated.

Acupuncture, which the Chinese have practiced for thousands of years,
is designed to restore the balanced flow of energy, or chi, in the
body. It remained relatively unknown in the United States until 1972
when a New York Times reporter in China had to have his appendix
removed. Treated post-operatively with acupuncture, he was impressed
with the results and wrote a front-page article about the experience,
sparking widespread interest in the subject.

In 1997, the National Institutes of Health released a consensus
statement listing specific conditions that acupuncture had been proven
to treat effectively and stating that “further research is likely to
uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be
useful.”

“That statement really opened the doors for the use of acupuncture
because it paved the way for a number of insurance companies to cover
acupuncture treatments,” Golianu said.

Although Western researchers now agree that acupuncture works for
certain conditions, they have yet to discover why. Imaging studies
reveal that needling certain points changes blood flow in the brain,
and others have shown acupuncture causes the release of endorphins,
the body’s natural painkillers. But, said Golianu, “there’s still a
black box in terms of the mechanism of action.”

“People say to me, ‘How can you do that because you don’t even know
how it works?’ And I say, well, nobody knows how general anesthetics
work either,” Ratner said. “But obviously we’d like to understand the
basis of how it works.”

Golianu first became interested in acupuncture while in college when
she spent her junior year studying in Taiwan and the People’s Republic
of China. Intrigued by her observations of the efficacy of
acupuncture, she returned several times during medical school to
Taiwan and studied at the China Medical College. She also spent six
months in a clinic in Japan. She completed an intensive acupuncture
certification program for physicians offered through UCLA and began to
practice it along with the techniques she’d learned in medical
school.

As for Ratner, she had an epiphany while on sabbatical. “I came to
this realization that there are a lot of patients that fall between
the cracks in Western medicine,” she said. On returning to Stanford
she called Golianu, who invited her to observe treatments at the
Center for Integrative Medicine. Ratner eventually completed the UCLA
course as well. “It became pretty clear to me that this was a whole
avenue where we could make a huge difference in the lives of
multitudes of patients,” she said.

An example, Golianu said, is a 20-year-old man she treated recently
who is dying of graft-versus-host disease, a complication of bone
marrow transplants in which the donated bone marrow attacks the
recipient’s organs and tissues. He was hospitalized because he was on
high doses of opiates to control back pain, but was also taking valium
and experiencing breathing difficulties. “Then one day I stuck in six
needles with some electrical stimulation and he was comfortable for
the first time in months,” she said.

Golianu and Ratner hope to bring similar relief to other patients.
“You can look at it as East meets West,” Ratner said. “We’re looking
to provide the best of both traditions to patients who are in the
hospital receiving complex medical care.”

“Acupuncture therapy has been used for centuries and has been largely
ignored by Western medicine,” said Ron Pearl, MD, PhD, professor and
chair of the Department of Anesthesia. “Our pain-management physicians
have used acupuncture for at least a decade, but what’s new is
creating a structured program to expand its use. One of the things we
can offer at Stanford is to learn more about when acupuncture works,
how it works and what we can do better.”

Acupuncture treatments were already available to outpatients at
Stanford through the Center for Integrative Medicine, and to patients
at Lucile Packard Children’s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and
Integrative Medicine clinic. Since the division’s official launch in
July, it has also put a physician on call five days a week for
acupuncture consultations for inpatients at both Packard and Stanford
hospitals.

Eventually, Ratner and Golianu would like to expand the division to
include more patient services, acupuncture education for medical
students, residents and doctors, and an expanded research component.
Citizen Jimserac - 23 May 2008 19:32 GMT
On May 23, 12:11 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use
> acupuncture in their hospitals.  The second to last paragraph shows
[quoted text clipped - 124 lines]
> include more patient services, acupuncture education for medical
> students, residents and doctors, and an expanded research component.

All this too!  Wow, I just KNEW there was
a reason that I was studying Acupuncture.

Anyone who PERSISTS in denying its efficacy
now would look like an IDIOT.

Any takers?

Citizen Jimserac
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 14:36 GMT
> On May 23, 12:11 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
>
> Any takers?

Richard got an early start.

> Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 08:20 GMT
: Here is just one example of how Stanford University has MD's use
: acupuncture in their hospitals.  The second to last paragraph shows
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: at Lucile Packard Children?s Hospital through the Pediatric Pain and
: Integrative Medicine clinic.

Why is it that when I pointed out that the University of Maryland has an
MD on staff who provides reflexology treatments, you refused to consider
that evidence that reflexology is becoming accepted within mainstream
medicine?

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
news - 25 May 2008 11:18 GMT
Richard's drooling removed.
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 14:35 GMT
> In article <139a550e-f211-4a5f-9640-a7e8d31a7...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> that evidence that reflexology is becoming accepted within mainstream
> medicine?

They have an MD who is practicing reflexology there?  Please provide a
citation and the MD's name.

> -----
> Richard Schultz                              schu...@mail.biu.ac.il
> Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
> Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
> -----
> "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 14:46 GMT
:> Why is it that when I pointed out that the University of Maryland has an
:> MD on staff who provides reflexology treatments, you refused to consider
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: They have an MD who is practicing reflexology there?  Please provide a
: citation and the MD's name.

My mistake.  She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University
of Maryland School of Medicine.  Why do you not consider her presence
at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance"
of reflexology?  Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"I daresay there's truth in yon Latin book on your shelves; but it's
gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words."
                --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
The One True Zhen Jue - 25 May 2008 15:28 GMT
> In article <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> My mistake.

No problemo.

 She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University
> of Maryland School of Medicine.  Why do you not consider her presence
> at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance"
> of reflexology?  

It is a notion I never considered before you brought it up.  Perhaps
your assertion that this "reflexology" thing is gaining acceptance is
worthy of investigation.  Get back to me with the number of US MD's
practicing it, the number of accreditted US medical schools who train
MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic.
I'll wait.

> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?

I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it.  On
the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very
knowledgable about it.

> -----
> Richard Schultz                              schu...@mail.biu.ac.il
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words."
>                                 --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
Richard Schultz - 25 May 2008 16:12 GMT
:> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?
:
: I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it.  

This is a lie.  Your opposition to it is demonstrated by your refusal to
learn anything about it or even to attempt to explain why you think it
doesn't work.

: On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very
: knowledgable about it.

This is another lie.  I am only "opposed" to acupuncture in the sense that
I object to claims being made for it for which there is no support (e.g.
"acupuncture is an effective treatment for people who want to quit
smoking"), and in the sense that I object to people choosing a treatment
when there is a more effective one available to them.  As I have explained
to you ad nauseum (doubtless you will tell me that I should undergo
acupuncture treatments for that), I believe that no strong evidence that
acupuncture works better than a placebo has been provided, and that *if*
such evidence ever is provided, the explanation for how acupuncture works
will almost certainly not depend on Qi or meridians.

It is not my nature to reveal irrelevant personal details, but I can
assure you that there is at least one person of my acquaintance (not me,
fortunately) who suffers from a complaint that on occasion causes extreme
discomfort.  If acupuncture could be shown to be an effective therapy, I
would be happy indeed.  

As for not being very knowledgable about acupuncture, it is true that I
do not know many of the details of the practice.  It is also true that every
time I ask you to explain them, you either refuse to answer (e.g. the
article that I posted explaining the history of the concept of meridians),
or run away once your answers are shown to be inadequate (e.g. your
explanations of Qi contradicting those provided by experts in the field).
One thing that I can do is read journal articles and interpret them, and
I can tell the difference between a well-designed experiment and a poorly
designe one.  This latter ability is clearly beyond you, as evidenced by
your failure, once again, to respond to or even acknowledge the questions
that I asked you about various reports of the efficacy (or lack thereof)
of acupuncture -- including one study that *you* have cited.

As I said before, I do not believe that in general acupuncturists are
frauds, because as far as I can tell, they sincerely believe that what
they are doing works.  But if you are treating patients for nicotine
addiction and taking money for it without informing them that the literature
indicates that acupuncture works no better than a placebo, you are in
my opinion coming very close.

And I'm not sure why you find people posting on subjects about which
they are poorly informed to be so objectionable.  After all, you do it
all the time, and have on at least one occasion persisted in your errors
even after they were explained to you.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
The gardener plants an evergreen whilst trampling on a flower. . .
Jan Drew - 26 May 2008 04:28 GMT
> In article
> <ac905d06-a1c4-4ffc-a62d-53db3742272b@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, The One
> True Zhen Jue <Andrew_Kingoff@yahoo.com> wrote:

Now--I will post the correct way.  So people can read what he wrote, not
this in article crapola.

> In article
> <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> My mistake.

No problemo.

 She is a certified reflexologist who works for the University
> of Maryland School of Medicine. Why do you not consider her presence
> at an accredited medical school as evidence of the "growing acceptance"
> of reflexology?

It is a notion I never considered before you brought it up.  Perhaps
your assertion that this "reflexology" thing is gaining acceptance is
worthy of investigation.  Get back to me with the number of US MD's
practicing it, the number of accreditted US medical schools who train
MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic.
I'll wait.

> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?

I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it.  On
the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very
knowledgable about it.

> -----
> Richard Schultz schu...@mail.biu.ac.il
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words."
> --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_

> :> Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?
> :
> : I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not very knowledgable about it.
>
> This is a lie.

Care to prove it?  Oh, forgot you don't know the definition of a lie.

 Your opposition to it is demonstrated by your refusal to
> learn anything about it or even to attempt to explain why you think it
> doesn't work.

Um, no.  Not learning about something because one is not interested is not a
lie.

> : On the other hand, you are opposed to acupuncture and are not very
> : knowledgable about it.
>
> This is another lie.

lol.  Richey baby is desperate, because he is guilty of so many lies on this
subject, and others.

I am only "opposed" to acupuncture in the sense that
> I object to claims being made for it for which there is no support (e.g.
> "acupuncture is an effective treatment for people who want to quit
> smoking"), and in the sense that I object to people choosing a treatment
> when there is a more effective one available to them.

Each person has the right to chose their own treatment.

As I have explained
> to you ad nauseum (doubtless you will tell me that I should undergo
> acupuncture treatments for that), I believe that no strong evidence that
> acupuncture works better than a placebo has been provided,

You have the right to believe a lie and you do.

and that *if*
> such evidence ever is provided, the explanation for how acupuncture works
> will almost certainly not depend on Qi or meridians.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> discomfort.  If acupuncture could be shown to be an effective therapy, I
> would be happy indeed.

You know what your buddy Mark Probert says about anecdotes.

> As for not being very knowledgable about acupuncture, it is true that I
> do not know many of the details of the practice.  It is also true that
> every
> time I ask you to explain them, you either refuse to answer

Blatant lie.

Insults delelted
> -----
> Richard Schultz
Kelley Eidem - 26 May 2008 19:05 GMT
On May 25, 9:28 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> > In article <90ad2c11-a7a4-44d5-993d-743975a83...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> MD's to perform it, and the NIH consensus statement on the topic.
> I'll wait.

It's doubtful that M.D.'s would ever be the ones administering foot
reflexology because it takes time. Similarly, dentists don't clean
teeth; their dental hygienist does that.

In my first experience with a wholistic physician, he used a probe on
the bottom of my feet to see which spots were sensitive, applying the
idea of foot reflexology to help him get a sense of which organs were
under stress.

He helped me to recover from chronic kidney disease (biopsy:
glomerulinephritis [sp?]) After five years of recurring symptoms that
included on occasion urine the color of coca cola, I have not had any
problems for over 30 years.

No, it was cured with reflexology. It was just a part of the
evaluation.

> > Why are you so irrationally opposed to reflexology?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > gibberish and not truth to me, unless I know the meaning o' the words."
> >                                 --Elizabeth Gaskell, _North and South_
 
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