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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008What's your experience with Chi Machines?
Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? I'm interested because I have old broken bone bits in my back which has limited my ability to walk. I need some passive exercise/ oxygenation. If you haven't used one but want to make critical comments about them, feel free to expose your ignorance. ;-) > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you haven't used one but want to make critical comments about them, > feel free to expose your ignorance. ;-) Is it ignorant of me to mention that chi would be pretty much limited to sentient beings? Human beings would have chi. Pets would have chi. Other animals would have chi. I suppose plants would have chi, or would influence chi. I, who am a believer and use Chinese Medicine a lot, am very skeptical of a "Chi Machine". > > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I, who am a believer and use Chinese Medicine a lot, am very skeptical > of a "Chi Machine". I'm much more interested in the comments of those who have experience using the machine. I'm not at all interested in the comments of those who have not used it. Skepticism is an easy stance. Personal experience has a lot more value. > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you haven't used one but want to make critical comments > about them, feel free to expose your ignorance. ;-) It isn't ignorance to seek out facts, rather than seeking only to confirm what you wish to believe. Here's a quote from a detailed and insightful discussion of these machines from a naturopath. You can read the whole thing here: http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/footsoaks.html A patient told me the other day how much better she felt after a foot bath session, how relaxed and rejuvenated and asked me why. Well of course most of us will feel better after one of these treatments. Sitting still for half an hour with your feet in warm water will make you feel better. You should feel relaxed afterwards. In fact it isn't a bad idea to soak your feet after coming home from work. A three buck Rubbermaid wash basin and hot water may work as well. Add a cup of Epsom salts and it will work even better. Chemicals can be rapidly absorbed through the soles of a person's feet. If you don't believe this, rub a paste of garlic onto your feet and try breathing at someone ten minutes later. Yet there is no reason to believe that the reverse will also happen. There is no evidence that these gadgets draw off anything from the body. If they did pull chemicals out from the body, why do we assume that toxins would come out and essential chemicals stay in? > > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > we assume that toxins would come out and essential > chemicals stay in? Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. Secondly, the reason toxins might come out while essential chemicals stay in fails to consider that toxins come out of our colon while essential chemicals stay in. The body also disperses carbon dioxide, while keeping essential chemicals in.The body is designed to eliminate toxins as best it can...so toxins are more likely to be dispersed than are the essential chemical compounds. Duh! Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used one. Ya see, it says so right there in the subject heading, "What is your EXPERIENCE with Chi machines?" It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. You didn't say that in your original posting. There is something which is called a "chi machine" which is one of the more popular alleged foot detoxing machines. It's like if you had asked about the Zapper without explaining further, everyone would assume you meant Hulda Clark's Zapper. > Secondly, the reason toxins might come out while essential chemicals > stay in fails to consider that toxins come out of our colon while > essential chemicals stay in. The body also disperses carbon dioxide, > while keeping essential chemicals in.The body is designed to eliminate > toxins as best it can...so toxins are more likely to be dispersed than > are the essential chemical compounds. Duh! If such a simplistic notion was a general principle, then bleeding would also remove toxins while keeping the good stuff in. It doesn't. > Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work > or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used > one. Ya see, it says so right there in the subject heading, "What is > your EXPERIENCE with Chi machines?" I saw right from the beginning what you're all about. You want to invalidate anything anybody has to say if it doesn't fit in with your preconceived notions. You make up your mind first, then sort the data based on whether it fits with your beliefs. > It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" Tough cookies. You don't get to decide what gets posted to a Usenet newsgroup. If that gets you upset, go start your own Usenet where you can make up all the rules. Seems that the original poster wanted to know if anyone had experince. Was not pro or con. So why do some people try to lead it into a debate as to if it works or not? While yes/no may be worthy of debate, It is a different subject line. Why attack someone for asking if anyone had experince? Makes some people look like they might not be here to help, only to stir the dung and lead folks away from any meaningful conversation. > Seems that the original poster wanted to know if anyone had experince. Was > not pro or con. So why do some people try to lead it into a debate as to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > only to stir the dung and lead folks away from any meaningful > conversation. > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > then bleeding would also remove toxins while keeping > the good stuff in. It doesn't. Bleeding is the result of either a trauma or pathology. Pooping, breathing and sweating are normal bodily functions. So the general principle is different when comparing pathology/trauma to normal function. Duh! > > Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work > > or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You make up your mind first, then sort the data based > on whether it fits with your beliefs. You can say any ignorant thing you want. I'm merely reiterating that you have not provided the information that was asked for. I even cautioned you ahead of time that theories about the product were not being requested. But you ignored it at your peril. > > It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" > > Tough cookies. You don't get to decide what gets > posted to a Usenet newsgroup. If that gets you upset, > go start your own Usenet where you can make up all > the rules. Say whatever you want...be as non-responsive as you'd like...go for it! Provide information that was specifically not asked for. But please don't cry when your hand gets slapped for being an ignoramus. It's as if walked into a store and asked a clerk where the shoes department is, and he said, "You realize of course that shoes don't allow your feet to breathe according to Professor Nozedown." I don't care what the good Professor opines. I just want to check out the shoes. > > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > > > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > principle is different when comparing pathology/trauma to normal > function. Duh! But the passive exercise machines are not normal for the human body, either. So your "logic" falls flat on it's simplistic face. > > > Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work > > > or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > cautioned you ahead of time that theories about the product were not > being requested. But you ignored it at your peril. No, I saw that you were trying to invalidate any information that disagreed with your preconceived world view. However, you wouldn't learn anything that way, so I wisely provided information that I thought was relevant. (That was before you revealed that it was a passive exercise machine you were talking about, not the more common foot bath machines.) > > > It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it! Provide information that was specifically not asked for. But > please don't cry when your hand gets slapped for being an ignoramus. You obviously are quite upset that I used this opportunity to provide fact-based educational material. Being upset doesn't do you any good. > It's as if walked into a store and asked a clerk where the shoes > department is, and he said, "You realize of course that shoes don't > allow your feet to breathe according to Professor Nozedown." > > I don't care what the good Professor opines. I just want to check out > the shoes. If you just stew in your upset, that will only compound any ill effects. You'd be better off reading stuff that helps you calm down. > > > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > > > > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > for the human body, either. So your "logic" falls > flat on it's simplistic face. More of your non-helpful comments. You appear to have an unlimited supply. You're trying to use so-called logic when I'm requesting experiential information. It's like I put out a request for comments from cowpokes who have ridden bulls in the rodeo to find out what their experience has been, and you come along and say "I've never ridden a bull, but my Dad owns a Dodge Ram." So I say, "That's nice, sonny, but that's not what I'm lookin' for at this moment." Then you scream back, "You're just a jerk who already has his mind made up! Furthermore, my Dad's truck has a V-8 engine, so there! Maybe you'd be better off if you'd just leave and go read a book. (I guess I told him!! Hunh!)" > > > > Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work > > > > or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you were talking about, not the more common > foot bath machines.) Providing someone else's theory doesn't agree or disagree with what I was asking for...it's irrelevant to my original question. I even made a point to let you know that I wasn't looking for anyone's theory on the subject, just like I wasn't looking for your opinion on your Dad's truck. > > > > It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > opportunity to provide fact-based educational > material. Being upset doesn't do you any good. You could have included a photo of the White House or a Dodge Ram, too. Those might be factual but they would have been just as relevant. > > It's as if walked into a store and asked a clerk where the shoes > > department is, and he said, "You realize of course that shoes don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > compound any ill effects. You'd be better off > reading stuff that helps you calm down. You'd be better off taking a remedial reading course. You remind me of the stereotypical family uncle who everyone avoids because he's a pain in the a.s. Here I am trying to collect some information from real users of a particular type of product and you're trying exercise your personality flaws once again. > > > > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > > > > > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > supply. You're trying to use so-called logic when I'm requesting > experiential information. Hey, I'm just pointing out that your analogy falls flat for reasons that should be obvious. > It's like I put out a request for comments from cowpokes who have > ridden bulls in the rodeo to find out what their experience has been, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So I say, "That's nice, sonny, but that's not what I'm lookin' for at > this moment." And again you resort to baloney analogies when you can't refute my accurate assessment of your invalidating tactics. > Then you scream back, "You're just a jerk who already has his mind > made up! Furthermore, my Dad's truck has a V-8 engine, so there! Maybe > you'd be better off if you'd just leave and go read a book. (I guess I > told him!! Hunh!)" You call my accurate and on-target analysis "screaming" because you are in an upset state of mind. In your state of mind, anything I say would be interpreted by you as "screaming". You should calm down before posting again. > > > > > Once again, I'm not interested in one's THEORY about whether they work > > > > > or not. I'm looking for the experiences anyone who might have used [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > the subject, just like I wasn't looking for your opinion on your Dad's > truck. Yes, that's your tactic for invalidating anything that people might say which disagrees with your rigid world-view. You want to prevent any such information from being posted. I have the opposite point-of-view. I favor people posting any information they have. I don't try to stop people from posting information I disagree with. Unlike you, I have an open mind. > > > > > It does not ask, "What's your THEORY about ...?" > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You could have included a photo of the White House or a Dodge Ram, > too. Those might be factual but they would have been just as relevant. Again, you are just trying to put a negative spin on information which upsets you. If you weren't trying to do that -- if you sincerely only objected to the relevance of what I posted -- you would have stated that graciously, rather than in your upset, antagonistic manner. Your manner exposes your motives. > > > It's as if walked into a store and asked a clerk where the shoes > > > department is, and he said, "You realize of course that shoes don't [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the stereotypical family uncle who everyone avoids because he's a pain > in the a.s. Again, your manner exposes your upset at seeing information that you disagree with being posted where everybody can see it. You don't like that, and that is making you upset. > Here I am trying to collect some information from real users of a > particular type of product and you're trying exercise your personality > flaws once again. When information you don't like is posted, you respond with insults and attacks. An honest person who only objected to the relevance of the information would not do that. I suggest that you avoid reading information which upsets you, because persisting in that state could not possibly be good for your health and mental well-being. Ah well....................... >> > > > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring >> > > > > to is [quoted text clipped - 167 lines] > state could not possibly be good for your > health and mental well-being. > > > > > > Thanks for more nonsense, Thorson. The chi machine I'm referring to is > > > > > > not a foot soaking machine. It's a passive movement machine. [quoted text clipped - 159 lines] > state could not possibly be good for your > health and mental well-being. We get your point...you're ignorant when it comes to experiencing the passive exercise chi machine. And rather than keeping that to yourself, you wanted to make sure everyone knew you had no experience. Thanks for sharing. > We get your point...you're ignorant when it comes to experiencing the > passive exercise chi machine. And rather than keeping that to > yourself, you wanted to make sure everyone knew you had no experience. Of course he has no experience- he is busy hanging out at the Computer Science Department at Science, using Stanford's computers to make posts. It makes you wonder if the Computer Science Department at Stanford as aided these newsgroups in anyway -- instead of paying people to post, you make sock puppets who argue, and are negative, and instead of having a human man the puppet, the automatic system at at Computer Science Department would be an awesome way to create numerous personalities that make posts. Computer Science Departments at colleges are full of computers......and what an excellent way of targeting the newsgroups. >> We get your point...you're ignorant when it comes to experiencing the >> passive exercise chi machine. And rather than keeping that to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >colleges are full of computers......and what an excellent way of >targeting the newsgroups. If I had the ability to create a program that could post coherent (new) arguments to newsgroups, I surely would not be wasting my time with newsgroups. There'd be far better uses for my invention. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan Back to the subject..... > Tough cookies. You don't get to decide what gets > posted to a Usenet newsgroup. If that gets you upset, > go start your own Usenet where you can make up all > the rules. great attitude Thorson, no need to get upset, right? With that kind of attitude, are you related to a guy by the name of Bret Thorson, that works for Raven Wing, Inc. in Hernandon, VA? And don't get upset with me, take it up with the party that has given me (and hacked into my Qwest Account) Comcast account. Lawyer says as does FCC, whomever is hacking and using my computer as if it were their own, is the responsible party. I've found some interesting things about that party's accounts. WPA Personnel WPA Enterprise WPA2 Personal WPA2 Enterprise 802.1X WEP Since you hang out in the Computer Lab at Stanford, I'm sure you will be able to explain what this is all means.... Thank you. <computer >hacking This thread is not about your being paranoid. Nor--the approve. Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. > <computer > >hacking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. She can't. Being the victim of an international conspiracy of world powers is the only thing which gives her life meaning. Something had to fill the spot vacated by her delusional MCS. MCS is not delusional. > She can't. Being the victim of an international > conspiracy of world powers is the only thing which > gives her life meaning. > > Something had to fill the spot vacated by her > delusional MCS. Oh, Dr. Thorson----I didn't realize that you could diagnose people!! That innocent face you are attempting to wear does not suit you at all. I know better. : Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. Which do you think would be more helpful -- the wedding march from Act II of _Lohengrin_ or Elgar's _Pomp and Circumstance_ March No. 1? ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." > In article <hk1Wj.4564$3O7.4...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net>, Jan Drew <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ----- > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." Depending on whether you're old enough to remember it. I'd go for Tiny Tim's "Tip Toe Through the Tulips." >: Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. > >Which do you think would be more helpful -- the wedding march from Act II >of _Lohengrin_ or Elgar's _Pomp and Circumstance_ March No. 1? Given the apparent congruence of Jan and the composer in question in their reputed opinions about a certain racial and religious group, I would suspect that Jan would prefer Lohengrin.  SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. Jan Drew --- I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee. It would appear to have started with this happy little group here. On May 19, 3:39�am, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote: <Butterflies1...@gmail.com> wrote: <computer >hacking This thread is not about your being paranoid. Nor--the approve. Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. > > Get processional help for this long time paranoidal. > > Jan Drew --- I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee. I am awake and I do not drink coffee, prefer not to smell it. �It would > appear to have started with this happy little group here. No, it appeared long ago which I have posted. No need to keep NOT telling the truth, which is the same thing a LYING! > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you haven't used one but want to make critical comments about them, > feel free to expose your ignorance. ;-) Yes, I have one. I would be very careful since you have broken bone bits. I love it, you should work up to 20 minutes as it does put lots of oxygen in the body and increases circulation. It's very important to follow instructions, breathe correctly, and drink the right amount of water both before and after. You will tingle all over, feeling the benefits. Major Health Benefits of the CHI MACHINE * Oxygenation of the body's cell * Increases Lymph gland drainage *Strengthens the immune system * Relaxes autonomic neervous system *Balances the spine, strengthens joints * Aids digestion & elimination *Firms & Tones the lower body * Promotes weight loss *Increases range of motion & flexibility * Improves circulation *Improves internal organ function * Experience deeper, sounder sleep *Relieves many stress-related conditions They are expensive and worth every penny. Good luck, Jan PS. Pay no mind to Mark Thorson, he is a lackey for Quack Barrett and puts down most anything alternative. > > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > down > most anything alternative. Thank you for your reply, Jan! My broken bits happened 56 years ago. So the bone has probably healed over, but not in the proper way. The problem I have is from my spine sliding out of place due to the part that's missing. Can you give me more details as to what it has done for you? Thorson: Stephen Barrett's Peter Lorre. LOL! > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you haven't used one but want to make critical comments about them, > feel free to expose your ignorance. ;-) Skip the Chi machine and get some acupuncture. On May 9, 6:50 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Skip the Chi machine and get some acupuncture. Thanks. I had tried acupuncture. It was helpful for other things, but not for my back. I'm actually looking for something that would complement acupuncture. The passive oxygenation intrigues me. I'm not getting much exercise due to the Grade 3-4 spondylolisthesis (sp?). I used to walk for a couple miles. Now 400 yards can be a problem. > On May 9, 6:50 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > getting much exercise due to the Grade 3-4 spondylolisthesis (sp?). I > used to walk for a couple miles. Now 400 yards can be a problem. Have you considered water aerobics? On May 9, 9:45 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On May 9, 6:50 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Have you considered water aerobics? I wanted to do water aerobics, but the schedule at the college conflicted with my work schedule. So I signed up for swimming instead, and proceeded to strain my neck pretty good, such that it still bothers me. LOL! I'm doing my best to become self employed. If I can make that happen, then the water aerobics would be doable. I might go for the surgery before leaving my job. My other vertabrae are like those of a 25 year- old, according to the neurosurgeon. That's important in back surgery because if there's degeneration in the surrounding bones, the surgery often fails to produce the desired results. >Have you used one? If yes, what has it done for you? If you mean a device such as the one at http://www.electronichealing.co.uk/products/zen_chi_machine.htm a friend of mine bought something similar a few years ago to see if it would help with their arthritis. It had no noticeable effect on that and they didn't find any of the other claims were met either. It was eventually given to someone they knew whose work involved standing and lifting all day and who hoped it would help the back pain they had. It didn't. It did however come to a good use as they replaced the head rest bit with a metal plate and clamp used it in a workshop to agitate tins of paint prior to their use in spraying. |
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