 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008Homeopathy Research
http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_Bio/research.htm has interesting comments on early as well as recent Homeopathy research. Citizen Jimserac > http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_Bio/research.htm > > has interesting comments on early as well as recent > Homeopathy research. > > Citizen Jimserac Oops! I believe in homeopathy. But the page that you cited said that a study was done concerning the healing rate of mustard gas during World War II using homeopathy. Mustard gas was not used during World War II. It was used during World War I. Did the British government spray mustard gas on people and then apply homeopathy? That would be very, very naughty of them. Or did they treat patients who were sprayed with mustard gas 25 year prior to the homeopathy treatments? You should get your facts straight. Such blunders do not help your credibility, and credibility is essential when discussing homeopathy since it is a form of magic. Yes, it is a form of magic. Yes, I know that it works. I believe in it. I have two children because of it's healing powers. I have experienced may healings in myself and others because of homeopathy. It is still magic. >> http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_Bio/research.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >experienced may healings in myself and others because of homeopathy. >It is still magic. Calling Dr. Potter. Dr. Harry Potter, please respond.... > Calling Dr. Potter. > Dr. Harry Potter, please respond I appreciate your humour. Homeopathy uses non-physical "energies" to accomplish its task. All of the physical substance is gone by the time they get past 23X potency. The more dilute the concentration, the stronger the homeopathy. I have seen a 200,000C potency work. There are no more atoms or elementary particles or quarks left; they are all gone. The vibe, the etheric energy, the astral energy, whatever, is left and does the work. If this is not magic, then the word magic has no meaning. (:->) >> Calling Dr. Potter. >> Dr. Harry Potter, please respond [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > (:->) what you describe is "magic"....astral energy?? yikes > > Calling Dr. Potter. > > Dr. Harry Potter, please respond [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > (:->) I spent 32 years programming computers and believe me, at the end of that I was more machine than person and VERY logical so talk about magic I would have dismissed not so long ago. When I first read about Homeopathy, I was convinced it was utter nonsense but the wide reports of its successful utilization, sometimes with very dramatic results, all reported by very credible observers, usually MD's who were also Homeopaths, led me to search deeper. Had this been the pre Internet era, the easy "refutations" "denials" and condemnations of it would have necessitated visiting hundreds of libraries and spending months of research to refute - but ah, now a simple google, for example to the research published by Dr. Iris Bell MD, Phd, can be found at: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/view,173 and some of this research is mentioned in her superb Homeopathy talk which can be viewed here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wYO6nNQGe1M In addition, whenever I dared post anything positive about it, a wave of vitriolic condemnation, ridicule, unreasoning hysteria and outright illogical emotionalism ,all of which failed to look at the facts and the abundant research, much of it positive, was unleashed which only made me read more and dig deeper. One skeptic began all of his "arguments" by discounting ALL of Homeopathic research in ALL their journals as though they were somehow "tainted" despite the obvious scientific credentials and peer reviewed research. I was lucky enough, not long ago, to encounter "The Science of Homeopathy" by George Vithoulkas, an outstanding book and a book which finally gave me confidence that Homeopathy, though it rests on the border between known and unknown, operates with good scientific principles, and continued investigation of it and its properties will prove to be of enormous benefit to medical science. It is unfortunate that a system of medicine which seem human beings as MORE than a collection of interconnected mechanical parts, could be so profoundly threatening to standard medicine with all of its wonderous advances and attainments. As you might expect, ENTRENCHED interests of the most dire kind have a huge VESTED interest in denial of Homeopathy, and, as the contemptuous skeptics of this newsgroup have and will demonstrate, ANY tactic, distortion of one's comments, refusal to look at research, refusal to even consider research published in Homeopathic journals, refusal to acknowledge the numerous Homeopathic research with POSITIVE results in DOUBLE BLIND studies (even though such studies may be weakened by violating the necessity of INDIVIDUALIZED prescriptions in Homeopathy) and other diversions will be used to discredit it. As the few puny responses you have gotten already indicate, these individuals have no interest in science, logic or anything else and prefer ridicule, emotional outbursts, and innuendo to scientific discussion. For the most part, I no longer respond to them. I am fully in agreement with you, though I adhere fully to science and logic, YES, Homeopathy could be considered to be a kind of magic, and very good magic at that! It is only by leaving the cave and entering the realm of the unknown that progress will be made, while the others cower behind, safe and secure by their fire and unwilling to tempt the vicissitudes of fate and the uncertainty of risk. I am very pleased that you and your family have benefited from Homeopathy and will remind you that although the full mechanism of its modus operandi is as yet unknown, contemporary research involving the latest PHYSICS, rather than the classical chemistry of 100 years ago is investigating its action. There are any number of good books on the subject, and, in addition some of the writings of the classical Homeopathists can easily be found in google book search. The remarkable capabilities of this amazing science have only begun to be uncovered and we expect the day will soon come when science catches up with "magic" and whole new fields are opened in medicine to the enrichment of all. Thanks James Pannozzi aka Citizen Jimserac > http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_Bio/research.htm > > has interesting comments on early as well as recent > Homeopathy research. > > Citizen Jimserac It is in the nature of scientific experimentation that you will get spurious positive results on occasions. So you can prove anything if you only select positive studies and choose to ignore relevant negative material such as that dilution has never been shown to reliably increase the biological effects of anything. It hasn't. Don't you think homeopaths have been trying to produce a consistent example over the last two centuries? . You have been conned out of your native skepticism by being made to think that your own observations of what happens when you dilute solutions doesn't count. They do count, and they provide the main reason why so many people think homeopathy is bunk. People can be dazzled out of things that they know to be true by so-called science because they are not medical scientists and able to apportion the proper value to evidence of different kinds, especially clinical studies. So why should we accept the small positive study for homeopathy in rheumatoid arthritis quoted here, and not this much larger one, performed by Peter Fisher, the homeopath to the Queen of England? He did not individualize treatments, simply whacking all possible homeopathic remedies together and giving them all in one go, but then homeopathic provider King Bio, responsible for the material you quote, doesn't individualize its treatments either. It makes no sense anyway, again if you choose to use your own innate intelligence, to give people with the same pathological or etiological diagnosis such as asthma or rheumatoid arthritis, different remedies. It doesn't make any sense to use an onion-based homeopathic remedy for hay fever simply because onions can make your eyes water. It doesn't make any sense to give someone with phosphoric acid poisoning diluted phosphoric acid as one homeopath described. Have more confidence in your own everyday experience and observations. Rheumatology (Oxford). 2001 Sep;40(9):1052-5. Links A randomized controlled trial of homeopathy in rheumatoid arthritis. Fisher P, Scott DL. Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital, Great Ormond Street, London, UK. OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that homeopathy is effective in reducing the symptoms of joint inflammation in rheumatoid arthritis (RA). METHOD: This was a 6-month randomized, cross-over, double-blind, placebo-controlled, single-centre study set in a teaching hospital rheumatology out-patient clinic. The participants of the study were 112 patients who had definite or classical RA, were seropositive for rheumatoid factor and were receiving either stable doses of single non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) for > or =3 months or single disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs (DMARDs) with or without NSAIDs for > or =6 months. Patients who were severely disabled, had taken systemic steroids in the previous 6 months or had withdrawn from DMARD therapy in the previous 12 months were excluded. Two series of medicines were used. One comprised 42 homeopathic medicines used for treating RA in 6cH (10(-12)) and/or 30cH (10(-30)) dilutions (a total of 59 preparations) manufactured to French National Pharmacopoeia standards, the other comprised identical matching placebos. The main outcome measures were visual analogue scale pain scores, Ritchie articular index, duration of morning stiffness and erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR). RESULTS: Fifty-eight patients completed the trial. Over 6 months there were significant decreases (P<0.01 by Wilcoxon rank sum tests) in their mean pain scores (fell 18%), articular indices (fell 24%) and ESRs (fell 11%). Fifty-four patients withdrew before completing the trial. Thirty-one changed conventional medication, 10 had serious intercurrent illness or surgery, 12 failed to attend and three withdrew consent. Placebo and active homeopathy had different effects on pain scores; mean pain scores were significantly lower after 3 months' placebo therapy than 3 months' active therapy (P=0.032 by Wilcoxon rank sum test). Articular index, ESR and morning stiffness were similar with active and placebo homeopathy. CONCLUSIONS: We found no evidence that active homeopathy improves the symptoms of RA, over 3 months, in patients attending a routine clinic who are stabilized on NSAIDs or DMARDs. PMID: 11561118 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PM Oh! Thank you for reminding me! The article referenced by "bachcole" was quite correct the research on mustard gas was done during World War ll, sponsored by the British Government (J Patterson, Report on Mustard Gas Experiment, Journal of Am Institute of Homeopathy, 1944, 37:47); The study was apparently done both in London and in Glasgow and a double blinded placebo test protocol was apparently used. (Scofield AM, Experimental Resarch in Homeopathy, A Critical Review, British Homeopathic Journal, 1984, 73:161). The results showed positive results for two Homeopathic remedies, Rhus Toxicodendron and Kali Bichromicum (30C each one) as giving "striking results" for burns produced by azotized mustard gas (source: "Homeopathy: Science or Myth but Bill Gray M.D., North Atlantic Books, 2000, page 33). As with ANY testing in ANY field of medicine, of course there are negative as well as positive results. The interpretation of those tests and the possibility of self deception are dealt with by the peers of the researchers who produce the results and draw their conclusions. The ultimate arbiter of the successful cure, however, is not the laboratory nor statistics nor theories - it is the cured patient. The mindset of the last century, AND the proscribed limitations of its science, will NOT suffice to explore realms that have remained unknown for the last 200 years. Thanks Citizen Jimserac > Oh! Thank you for reminding me! > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > by the peers of the researchers who produce the > results and draw their conclusions. But they also have to be looked at in the light of the probabilities. The probability of experimental error, artefact,, statistical fluke or even outright fraud in clinical and laboratory studies is far higher than the likelihood of a treatment effect from nomoepathically diluted solutions. > The ultimate arbiter of the successful cure, > however, is not the laboratory nor statistics > nor theories - it is the cured patient. No it's not, while ever the effects claimed are almost exclusively with conditions that tend to fluctuate spontaneously or respond symptomatically to placebos. > The mindset of the last century, AND the proscribed > limitations of its science, > will NOT suffice to explore realms that have remained > unknown for the last 200 years. They are by nio means unknown, and no other valid idea has taken so long to recruit support. On teh contrary, mew knwoledge shows that homeopathic theory is just plain wrong. Look how the discovery of aAvoigadro's number required the recasting fo homoepathic theory and the search for ludicrous "memory of water" and quantum effects. And that is the least of it. There is no "like cures like" principle in medicine. The "provings" are an unreliable way of choosing remedies and treating patients according to symptom profile rather than diagnosis as per individualised treatments mean homeopaths cannot see the wood for the trees. Even Hannemann recognised some discrete diagnoses such as syphilis. PM > Thanks > Citizen Jimserac > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > conditions that tend to fluctuate spontaneously or respond symptomatically > to placebos. On this point I respectfully disagree. I believe the "placebo" concept is a short circuit which blocks clear thinking on this matter and I urge you to ignore this distraction and concentrate on two things, the PATIENT and the ILLNESS. > > The mindset of the last century, AND the proscribed > > limitations of its science, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > required the recasting fo homoepathic theory and the search for ludicrous > "memory of water" and quantum effects. Excuse me? There was NO recasting - the early Homeopaths knew of the violation of Avogadro's law, I think I read somewhere that even Hahnemann knew of and spoke of it. And some classical Homeopaths condemn the "memory of water" idea. And that is the least of it. > There is no "like cures like" principle in medicine. The "provings" are > an unreliable way of choosing remedies and treating patients according to > symptom profile rather than diagnosis as per individualised treatments mean > homeopaths cannot see the wood for the trees. Even Hannemann recognised > some discrete diagnoses such as syphilis. I most heartily disagree on both points, there IS a "like cure like principle" (the allopath would give medication to counteract an inflammation whereas the Homeopath would give a tiny does of a substance that causes inflammation, for example onion, which causes tearing of the eyes is used in Homeopathic doses as an allergy medication) and the "provings" which I found rather curious when I first read about them, actually follow an ELABORATE protocol, lasting MONTHS and the "provers" ARE NOT told what substance it is that they are proving. And one of the STRENGTHS of Homeopathy are these elaborate "repertories" with their long list of detailed symptoms which seemed so curious to me when I first saw them. In addition to physical symptoms, psychological symptoms, likes, dislikes, quasi compulsive behaviours, things that alleviate the condition and things that exacerbate are included - my God man, this represents an incredible individualization of symptomology with psychological components included - and the Homeopaths seek to prescribe the substance whose provings show it to be best suited to that individualized symptom complex. Homeopathy is NOT one size fits all medicine, no "pill" for everyone with lung congestion, for example. Citizen Jimserac -snippety snip- >Homeopathy is NOT one size fits all medicine, >no "pill" for everyone with lung congestion, >for example. so Jim, when are we going to see you complain about Big Homeopathy that sells over the counter 'one size fits all' homeopathic remedies? According to you, they're are cheating the public. >Citizen Jimserac >> "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > no "pill" for everyone with lung congestion, > for example. funniest statement yet made here.... firstly...homeopathy in no way shape or form..is "medicine".....so that part of your argument is laughable secondly....real medicine...is also not "one pill fits all"...but then you would not know that since you have never prescribed "real" medicines.. > Citizen Jimserac On May 8, 9:11 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > funniest statement yet made here.... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > secondly....real medicine...is also not "one pill fits all"...but then you > would not know that since you have never prescribed "real" medicines.. We're even cuz I don't think you would recognize real research if it hit you in the face. Here, laugh THIS off: Homeopathy Research Evidence Base: References Iris R. Bell, MD PhD The University of Arizona College of Medicine ibell@u.arizona.edu Aickin M. The end of biomedical journals: there is madness in their methods. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2005; 11 (5): 755-7. Aickin M. Participant-centered analysis in complementary and alternative medicine comparative trials. J Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (6):949-57. Aickin M. Separation tests for early-phase CAM comparative trials. Evidence-Based Integrative Medicine 2004; 1 (4):225-31. Becker-Witt C, Weibhuhn T.E.R., Ludtke, R., Willich, S.N. Quality assessment of physical research in homeopathy. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (1):113-32. Bell IR. All evidence is equal, but some evidence is more equal than others: can logic prevail over emotion in the homeopathy debate? J Altern Complement Med. 2005; 11 (5):763-9. Bell IR. Evidence-based homeopathy: empirical questions and methodological considerations for homeopathic clinical research. American Journal of Homeopathic Medicine 2003; 96 (1):17-31. Bell IR, Baldwin CM, Schwartz GE. Translating a nonlinear systems theory model for homeopathy into empirical tests. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine. 2002a; 8 (3):58-66. Bell IR, Caspi O, Schwartz GE et al. Integrative medicine and systemic outcomes research: issues in the emergence of a new model for primary health care. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2002b; 162 (2):133-40. Bell IR, Koithan M. Models for the study of whole systems. Integrative Cancer Therapies 2006; 5 (4):293-307. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Brooks AJ et al. Individual differences in response to randomly assigned active individualized homeopathic and placebo treatment in fibromyalgia: implications of a double-blinded optional crossover design. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004a; 10 (2):269-83. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Brooks AJ et al. Improved clinical status in fibromyalgia patients treated with individualized homeopathic remedies versus placebo. Rheumatology 2004b; 43 (5):577-82. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Lewis SE et al. EEG alpha sensitization in individualized homeopathic treatment of fibromyalgia. International Journal of Neuroscience 2004c; 114 (9):1195-220. Bell IR, Lewis DAI, Schwartz GE et al. Electroencephalographic cordance patterns distinguish exceptional clinical responders with fibromyalgia to individualized homeopathic medicines. J Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004d; 10 (2):285-99. Bell IR, Walsh, M., Russek, L.G.S., Schwartz, G.E.R. Proposed applications of conventional research concepts and tools to homeopathic clinical research. Journal of the American Institute of Homeopathy 1999; 92 (3):111-28. Bellavite P. Complexity science and homeopathy: a synthetic overview. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2003; 92 (4): 203-12. Bellavite P, Conforti A, Pontarollo F et al. Immunology and homeopathy. 2. Cells of the immune system and inflammation. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2006; 3 (1):13-24. Bellavite P, Signorini, A. The Emerging Science of Homeopathy. Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology. 2nd ed. Berkeley: North Atlantic Books; 2002. 408 pp. p. Bertani S, Lussignoli S, Andrioli G et al. Dual effects of a homeopathic mineral complex on carrageenan-induced oedema in rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (3):101-5. Betti L, Lazzarato L, Trebbi G et al. Effects of homeopathic arsenic on tobacco plant resistance to tobacco mosaic virus. Theoretical suggestions about system variability, based on a large experimental data set. Homeopathy 2003; 92 (4):195-202. Bikker AP, Mercer SW, Reilly D. A pilot prospective study on the consultation and relational empathy, patient enablement, and health changes over 12 months in patients going to the Glasgow Homoeopathic Hospital. J Altern Complement Med. 2005; 11 (4):591-600. Biswas SJ, Pathak S, Bhattacharjee N et al. Efficacy of the potentized homeopathic drug, Carcinosin 200, fed alone and in combination with another drug, Chelidonium 200, in amelioration of p- dimethylaminoazobenzene-induced hepatocarcinogenesis in mice. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5):839-54. Bootzin RR, Bailey ET. Understanding placebo, nocebo, and iatrogenic treatment effects. J Clin Psychology 2005; 61 (7):871-80. Brizzi M, Lazzarato L, Nani D et al. A biostatistical insight into the As(2)O(3) high dilution effects on the rate and variability of wheat seedling growth. Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd 2005; 12 (5): 277-83. Caspi O, Bell IR. One size does not fit all: aptitude-treatment interaction (ATI) as a conceptual framework for outcome research. Part I. What is ATI research? Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004a; 10 (3):580-6. Caspi O, Bell IR. One size does not fit all: aptitude-treatment interaction (ATI) as a conceptual framework for outcome research. Part II. Research designs and their application. . Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. 2004b; 10 (4):698-705. Caulfield T, DeBow S. A systematic review of how homeopathy is represented in conventional and CAM peer reviewed journals. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2005; 5 (1):12. Chaplin MF. The Memory of Water: an overview. Homeopathy. 2007; 96 (3): 143-50 Chapman EH, Weintraub RJ, Milburn MA et al. Homeopathic treatment of mild traumatic brain injury: A randomized, double-blind, placebo- controlled clinical trial. Journal of Head Trauma Rehabilitation 1999; 14 (6):521-42. Coffey DS. Self-organization, complexity, and chaos: the new biology for medicine. Nature Medicine. 1998; 4 (8):882-5. Conforti A, Bellavite P, Bertani S et al. Rat models of acute inflammation: a randomized controlled study on the effects of homeopathic remedies. BMC Complement Altern Med 2007; 7:1. Dean ME, Coulter MK, Fisher P et al. Reporting data on homeopathic treatments (RedHot): a supplement to CONSORT. J Altern Complement Med 2007; 13 (1):19-23. Eizayaga FX, Aguejouf O, Belon P et al. Platelet aggregation in portal hypertension and its modification by ultra-low doses of aspirin. Pathophysiol Haemost Thromb 2005; 34 (1):29-34. Eizayaga FX, Aguejouf O, Desplat V et al. Modifications produced by indomethacin and L-NAME in the effect of ultralow-dose aspirin on platelet activity in portal hypertension. Pathophysiol Haemost Thromb 2006; 35 (5):357-63. Elia V, Napoli E, Germano R. The 'Memory of Water': an almost deciphered enigma. Dissipative structures in extremely dilute aqueous solutions. Homeopathy. 2007; 96 (3):163-9. Elia V, Niccoli, M. New physico-chemical properties of extremely diluted aqueous solutions. Journal of Thermal Analysis and Calorimetry 2004; 75:815-36. Elia V, Niccoli, M. Thermodynamics of extremely diluted aqueous solutions. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1999; 879:241-8. Endler PC, Pongratz W, Kastberger G et al. The effect of highly diluted agitated thyroxine on the climbing activity of frogs. Vet Hum Toxicol 1994; 36 (1):56-9. Endler PC, Pongratz W, Smith CW et al. Non-molecular information transfer from thyroxine to frogs with regard to homeopathic toxicology. Veterinary & Human Toxicology. 1995; 37 (3):259-60. Endler PC, Pongratz, W., van Wijk, R., Wiegant, F.A.C., Waltl, K., Gehrer, M., Hilgers, H. A zoological example on ultra high dilution research. Energetic coupling between the dilution and the organism in a model of amphibia. In: PC Endler, Schulte, J., editor, translator and editor Ultra High Dilution. Dordrecht, The Netherlands: Kluwer Academic Publishers; 1994; p. 39-68. Fisher P. Homeopathy and The Lancet. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2006; 3 (1):145-7. Frei H, Everts R, von Ammon K et al. Randomised controlled trials of homeopathy in hyperactive children: treatment procedure leads to an unconventional study design Experience with open-label homeopathic treatment preceding the Swiss ADHD placebo controlled, randomised, double-blind, cross-over trial. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (1):35-41. Frei H, Everts R, von Ammon K, Kaufmann F, Walther D, Hsu-Schmitz SF, Collenberg M, Fuhrer K, Hassink R, Steinlin M, Thurneysen A. Homeopathic treatment of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double blind, placebo controlled crossover trial. Eur J Pediatr. 2005; 164 (12):758-67. Frei H, Thurneysen A, von Ammon K. Methodological difficulties in homeopathic treatment of children with ADD/ADHD. J Altern Complement Med 2006a; 12 (2):104; author reply Frei H, Thurneysen A. Treatment for hyperactive children: homeopathy and methylphenidate compared in a family setting. British Homoeopathic Journal 2001; 90 (4):183-8. Frei H, von Ammon K, Thurneysen A. Treatment of hyperactive children: increased efficiency through modifications of homeopathic diagnostic procedure. Homeopathy. 2006b; 95 (3):163-70. Frenkel M, Hermoni D. Effects of homeopathic intervention on medication consumption in atopic and allergic disorders. Altern Ther Health Med 2002; 8 (1):76-9. Goldstein MS, Glik, D. Use of and satisfaction with homeopathy in a patient population. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine 1998; 4 (2):60-5. Guthlin C, Lange O, Walach H. Measuring the effects of acupuncture and homoeopathy in general practice: an uncontrolled prospective documentation approach. BMC Public Health 2004; 4 (1):4. Haidvogl M, Riley DS, Heger M, Brien S, Jong M, Fischer M, Lewith GT, Jansen G, Thurneysen AE. Homeopathic and conventional treatment for acute respiratory and ear complaints: a comparative study on outcome in the primary care setting. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2007; 2;7:7. Honda K, Jacobson JS. Use of complementary and alternative medicine among United States adults: the influences of personality, coping strategies, and social support. Preventive Medicine 2005; 40 (1): 46-53. Hyland ME, Lewith GT. Oscillatory effects in a homeopathic clinical trial: an explanation using complexity theory, and implications for clinical practice. Homeopathy 2002; 91 (3):145-9. Jacobs J, Jimenez LM, Gloyd SS et al. Treatment of acute childhood diarrhea with homeopathic medicine: a randomized clinical trial in Nicaragua. Pediatrics. 1994; 93 (5):719-25. Jacobs J, Jimenez LM, Malthouse S et al. Homeopathic treatment of acute childhood diarrhea: results from a clinical trial in Nepal. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2000; 6 (2):131-9. Jacobs J, Jonas WB, Jimenez-Perez M et al. Homeopathy for childhood diarrhea: combined results and metaanalysis from three randomized, controlled clinical trials. Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 2003; 22 (3):229-34. Jacobs J, Williams AL, Girard C et al. Homeopathy for attention- deficit/hyperactivity disorder: a pilot randomized-controlled trial. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5):799-806. Jonas W, Lin Y, Tortella F. Neuroprotection from glutamate toxicity with ultra-low dose glutamate. Neuroreport 2001; 12 (2):335-9. Jonas W, Lin, Y., Williams, A., Tortella, F., Tuma, R. Treatment of experimental stroke with low-dose glutamate and homeopathic Arnica montana. Perfusion 1999a; 12:452-62. Jonas WB. Do homeopathic nosodes protect against infection? An experimental test. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine 1999b; 5 (5):36-40. Jonas WB. The future of hormesis: what is the clinical relevance to hormesis? Critical Reviews in Toxicology. 2001; 31 (4-5):655-8. Jonas WB, Kaptchuk TJ, Linde K. A critical overview of homeopathy. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2003; 138 (5):393-9. Jutte R, Riley D. A review of the use and role of low potencies in homeopathy. Complement Ther Med 2005; 13 (4):291-6. Kundu SN, Mitra K, Khuda Bukhsh AR. Efficacy of a potentized homeopathic drug (Arsenicum-Aalbum-30) in reducing cytotoxic effects produced by arsenic trioxide in mice: IV. Pathological changes, protein profiles, and content of DNA and RNA. Complementary Therapies in Medicine 2000; 8 (3):157-65. Lamont J. Homeopathic treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. A controlled study. British Homoeopathic Journal 1997; 86:196-200. Langman MJS. Homeopathy trials: reason for good ones but are they warranted? Lancet 1997; 350:825. Lewith GT, Watkins AD, Hyland ME et al. Use of ultramolecular potencies of allergen to treat asthmatic people allergic to house dust mite: double blind randomised controlled clinical trial. BMJ 2002; 324 (7336):520-3 Linde K, Clausius N, Ramirez G et al. Are the clinical effects of homeopathy placebo effects? A meta-analysis of placebo-controlled trials. Lancet 1997; 350:834-43. Linde K, Jonas WB, Melchart D et al. The methodological quality of randomized controlled trials of homeopathy, herbal medicines and acupuncture. International Journal of Epidemiology 2001; 30 (3): 526-31. Lussignoli S, Bertani S, Metelmann H et al. Effect of Traumeel S, a homeopathic formulation, on blood-induced inflammation in rats. Complementary Therapies in Medicine 1999; 7 (4):225-30. Mallick P, Mallick JC, Guha B et al. Ameliorating effect of microdoses of a potentized homeopathic drug, Arsenicum Album, on arsenic-induced toxicity in mice. BMC Complement Altern Med 2003; 3:7. Marotta D, Marini A, Banaudha K et al. Non-linear effects of cycloheximide in glutamate-treated cultured rat cerebellar neurons. Neurotoxicology. 2002; 23 (3):307-12. Marotta D, Marini, A, Banaudha, K., Maharaj, S., Jonas, W.B. Nonlinear effects of glutamate and KCl on glutamate toxicity in cultured rat cerebellar neurons. International Journal of Neuroscience 2003; 113:45-56. Mathie RT. The research evidence base for homeopathy: a fresh assessment of the literature. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2003; 92:84-91. Mathie RT, Hansen L, Elliott MF et al. Outcomes from homeopathic prescribing in veterinary practice: a prospective, research-targeted, pilot study. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (1):27-34. Milgrom LR. Are randomized controlled trials (RCTs) redundant for testing the efficacy of homeopathy? A critique of RCT methodology based on entanglement theory. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5): 831-8. Neville-Smith R. Community hospital homeopathy clinic: audit of the first 12 months activity. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (1): 20-3. Oberbaum M, Singer SR, Vithoulkas G. The colour of the homeopathic improvement: the multidimensional nature of the response to homeopathic therapy. Homeopathy. 2005; 94 (3):196-9. Oberbaum M, Vithoulkas G, Van Haselen R. Clinical trials of classical homeopathy: reflections on appropriate research designs. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (1):105-11. Oberbaum M, Yaniv I, Ben-Gal Y et al. A randomized, controlled clinical trial of the homeopathic medication TRAUMEEL S in the treatment of chemotherapy-induced stomatitis in children undergoing stem cell transplantation. Cancer 2001; 92 (3):684-90. Rao ML, Roy R, Bell IR et al. The defining role of structure (including epitaxy) in the plausibility of homeopathy. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (3):175-82. Reilly D, Taylor, M.A., Beattie, N.G.M., Campbell, J.H., McSharry, C., Aitchison, T.C., Carter, R., Stevenson, R.D. Is evidence for homeopathy reproducible? Lancet 1994; 344:1601-6. Relton C, Weatherley-Jones E. Homeopathy service in a National Health Service community menopause clinic: audit of clinical outcomes. Journal of the British Menopause Society. 2005; 11 (2):72-3. Rey L. Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Physica A: Statistical mechanics and its applications. 2003; 323:67-74. Riley D, Fischer M, Singh B et al. Homeopathy and conventional medicine: an outcomes study comparing effectiveness in a primary care setting. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2001; 7 (2): 149-59. Robinson N, Donaldson J, Watt H. Auditing outcomes and costs of integrated complementary medicine provision--the importance of length of follow up. Complement Ther Clin Pract 2006; 12 (4):249-57. Roy R, Tiller W, Bell IR et al. The Structure of Liquid Water: Novel Insights from Materials Research and Potential Relevance to Homeopathy. Materials Research Innovation 2005; 9 (4):557-608. Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz L, Proa-Flores P et al. An evaluation of Coffea cruda effect on rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (3): 122-6. Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz, L., Leon-Hueramo, O., Cruz-Vazquez, E., Sanchez-Diaz, N. Comparative effect of Coffea cruda potencies on rats. Homeopathy 2002; 91:80-4. Ruiz-Vega G, Poitevin B, Perez-Ordaz L. Histamine at high dilution reduces spectral density in delta band in sleeping rats. Homeopathy 2005; 94 (2):86-91. Ruiz G, Torres JL, Michel O et al. Homeopathic effect on heart rate variability. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (3):106-11. Ruiz G, Torres, J.L. Homeopathic effect on the sleep pattern of rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 1997; 86:201-6. Sevar R. Audit of outcome in 455 consecutive patients treated with homeopathic medicines. Homeopathy. 2005; 94 (4):215-21. Sevar R. Audit of outcome in 829 consecutive patients treated with homeopathic medicines. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (4): 178-87. Shang A, Huwiler-Muntener K, Nartey L, Juni P, Dorig S, Sterne JA, Pewsner D, Egger M. Are the clinical effects of homoeopathy placebo effects? Comparative study of placebo-controlled trials of homoeopathy and allopathy. Lancet. 2005; 366 (9487):726-32. Sukul A, Sarkar P, Sinhababu SP et al. Altered solution structure of alcoholic medium of potentized Nux vomica underlies its antialcoholic effect. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (2):73-7. Sukul A, Sinhabau SP, Sukul NC. Reduction of alcohol induced sleep time in albino mice by potentized Nux vomica prepared with 90% ethanol. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (2):58-61. Sukul NC, Bala, S.K., Bhattacharyya, B. Prolonged cataleptogenic effects of potentized homoeopathic drugs. Psychopharmacology 1986; 89:338-9. Sukul NC, De A, Sukul A et al. Potentized Mercuric chloride and Mercuric iodide enhance alpha-amylase activity in vitro. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2002; 91 (4):217-20. Sukul NC, Ghosh S, Sinhababu SP. Reduction in the number of infective Trichinella spiralis larvae in mice by use of homeopathic drugs. Forschende Komplementarmedizin und Klassische Naturheilkunde 2005; 12 (4):202-5. Sukul NC, Ghosh S, Sinhababu SP et al. Strychnos nux-vomica extract and its ultra-high dilution reduce voluntary ethanol intake in rats. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2001; 7 (2):187-93. Szeto AL, Rollwagen F, Jonas WB. Rapid induction of protective tolerance to potential terrorist agents: a systematic review of low- and ultra-low dose research. [Review] [19 refs]. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy 2004; 93 (4):173-8. Thompson E, Barron S, Spence D. A preliminary audit investigating remedy reactions including adverse events in routine homeopathic practice. Homeopathy: Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2004; 93 (4):203-9. Thompson EA, Oxon, B.A., Montgomery, A., Douglas, D., Reilly, D. A Pilot, Randomized, Double-Blinded, Placebo-Controlled Trial of Individualized Homeopathy for Symptoms of Estrogen Withdrawal in Breast-Cancer Survivors. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2005; 11 (1):13-20. Thompson EA, Reillly D. The homeopathic approach to symptom control in the cancer patient: a prospective observational study. Palliative Medicine. 2002; 16 (3):227-33. Tiller WA. On chemical medicine, thermodynamics, and homeopathy. J Altern Complement Med 2006; 12 (7):685-93. Torres JL. Homeopathic effect: a network perspective. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2002a; 91 (2):89-94. Torres JL. On the physical basis of succussion. Homeopathy 2002b; 91 (4):221-4. Torres JL, Ruiz MAG. Stochastic resonance and the homeopathic effect. British Homoeopathic Journal 1996; 85:134-40. van Wassenhoven M, Ives G. An observational study of patients receiving homeopathic treatment. Homeopathy 2004; 93 (1):3-11. van Wijk R, Bosman S, van Wijk EP. Thermoluminescence in ultra-high dilution research. J Altern Complement Med 2006; 12 (5):437-43. Van Wijk R, Wiegant FA. The similia principle as a therapeutic strategy: a research program on stimulation of self-defense in disordered mammalian cells. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine. 1997; 3 (2):33-8. van Wijk R, Wiegant, F.A.C. Cultured Mammalian Cells in Homeopathy Research. The Similia Principle in Self-Recovery. Utrecht, The Netherlands: Universiteit Utrecht; 1994. Vandenbroucke JP. Homeopathy trials: going nowhere. Lancet 1997; 350:824. Vickers AJ, Smith C. Homoeopathic Oscillococcinum for preventing and treating influenza and influenza-like syndromes. Cochrane Database Syst Rev 2006; 3:CD001957. Weatherley-Jones E, Nicholl JP, Thomas KJ et al. A randomised, controlled triple-blind trial of the efficacy of homeopathic treatment for chronic fatigue syndrome. Journal of Psychosomatic Research 2004a; 56:189-97. Weatherley-Jones E, Thompson E, Thomas K. The placebo-controlled trial as a test of complementary and alternative medicine: observations from research experience of individualised homeopathic treatment. Homeopathy. 2004b; 93 (4):186-9. Witt C, Keil T, Selim D, Roll S, Vance W, Wegscheider K, Willich SN. Outcome and costs of homoeopathic and conventional treatment strategies: a comparative cohort study in patients with chronic disorders. Complement Ther Med. 2005a; 13 (2):79-86. Witt C, Ludtke R, Weisshuhn TE, Willich SN. High homeopathic potencies are different from potentized solvent when investigated with the REDEM technology. Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2005b; 12 (1): 6-13. Witt CM, Bluth M, Albrecht H, Weisshuhn TE, Baumgartner S, Willich SN. The in vitro evidence for an effect of high homeopathic potencies--a systematic review of the literature. Complement Ther Med. 2007; 15 (2): 128-38. Witt CM, Ludtke R, Baur R et al. Homeopathic medical practice: long- term results of a cohort study with 3981 patients. BMC Public Health 2005; 5:115. Citizen Jimserac >On May 8, 9:11 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >The University of Arizona College of Medicine >ibell@u.arizona.edu - snippety snip - What an amazing similarity between you and religious nuts who cut and paste a bunch of bible verses when challengen, like you cut and paste 'research' (all done by FULLY QUALIFIED researchers of course). And you haven't read any of them. You're just taking the word of the quacks that it's all valid research (sorry, VALID RESEARCH) supporting homeopathy. On a scale of one thru ten for gullibility, you'd score closer to ten then to nine. > On Sat, 10 May 2008 04:53:26 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > homeopathy. On a scale of one thru ten for gullibility, you'd score > closer to ten then to nine. Martin!!!!! What a surprise meeting you here!! So far YOU have come up with ONE and ONLY ONE good criticism - you mentioned that I oppose "one size fits all medicine" and yet the Homeopathy companies are selling medicine in just that way. Keep trying, your bound to get a few hits after numerous attempts. Citizen Jimserac (all we need now is the mixed up quote from you know who - what will it be this time, pseudo Alice In Wonderland, Anthony Trollope or War and Peace?) Citizen Jimserac >> <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On May 8, 9:11 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >"one size fits all medicine" and yet the Homeopathy >companies are selling medicine in just that way. And when will we hear at least a peep from you protesting that there is something wrong (sorry, WRONG) with that? And have you noticed that that 'one size fits all' approach of the Homeopathy companies gets the same results as 'real' homeopathy? I really wonder why that is, don't you do too? > Keep trying, your bound to get a few hits after numerous attempts. >Citizen Jimserac >(all we need now is the mixed up quote from you know who - Voldemort? >what will it be this time, pseudo Alice In Wonderland, >Anthony Trollope or War and Peace?) > >Citizen Jimserac For those wishing to read Homeopathic research articles, the following link to the National Center for Homeopathy is invaluable and will aid in dispelling many of the fallacies that Martin and other routinely repeat: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp Thanks Citizen Jimserac > - snippety snip - > > - snippety snip - The correct response to most of Martin's posts, thanks. For any and all who still retain the ability to think, learn and evaluate rather than blindly repeat fallacies and anti-Homeopathy innuendo, see THIS link: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp Thanks Citizen Jimserac : For any and all who still retain the ability to think, learn and evaluate : rather than blindly repeat fallacies Any time that you want to demonstrate that you are in this category by showing an interest in learning about the statistical difficulties in evaluating alternative therapies, or, for that matter, by learning enough basic chemistry to understand why homeopathy is about as likely to be true as the moon is likely to be made of cheese, just let us know, and we'll be glad to oblige. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." > In article <70ddf995-54db-4838-b88a-f08492607...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ----- > "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." You will find the following, from my posting "Homeopathy Blasts Big Pharma" enlightening. In it, the authors argue convincingly against the sole utilization of controlled clinical trials as the sole evaluative methodology for Homeopathy. "The Growth of a Lie and the End of Conventional Medicine" by Mastrangelo et al. University of Sienna, Med Sci Monit, 2005; 11(12): SR27-31 to be found in the Meta -Analyses section of THIS Link: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp Summary "Throughout its over 200-year history, homeopathy has been proven effective in treating diseases for which conventional medicine has little to offer. However, given its low cost, homeopathy has always represented a serious challenge and a constant threat to the profits of drug companies. Moreover, since drug companies represent the most relevant source of funding for biomedical re- search worldwide, they are in a privileged position to finance detractive campaigns against home- opathy by manipulating the media as well as academic institutions and the medical establishment. The basic argument against homeopathy is that in some controlled clinical trials (CCTs), compari- son with conventional treatments shows that its effects are not superior to those of placebo. Against this thesis we argue that a) CCT methodology cannot be applied to homeopathy, b) misconduct and fraud are common in CCTs, c) adverse drug reactions and side effects show that CCT meth- odology is deeply flawed, d) an accurate testing of homeopathic remedies requires more sophis- ticated techniques, e) the placebo effect is no more “plausible” than homeopathy, and its real na- ture is still unexplained, and f) the placebo effect is nevertheless a “cure” and, as such, worthy of further investigation and analysis. It is concluded that no arguments presently exist against home- opathy and that the recurrent campaigns against it represent the specific interests of the pharma- ceutical industry which, in this way, strives to protect its profits from the “threat” of a safer, more effective, and much less expensive treatment modality." OTHER outstanding Homeopathy articles, include a transcript of a recent historic Homeopathy debate can be found in the "Basic Research" section of the above mentioned link. I am, of course, disappointed, that you did not offer one of your creatively fractured quotes at the end of your post and instead offered up the standard "don't have a clue" offering and hope that my posts will incense you to sufficient levels to at least merit some new quotes. Science is filled with examples of people so totally committed to an incorrect point of view (or testing methodology) that they were unable to make the creative leap of discovery. One example comes to mind, Rosalind Franklin, a brilliant researcher who made her way when woman scientists encountered all sorts of unfair discrimination and outright opposition - she SHOULD have made the Nobel prize winning structure of DNA discovery but stubbornly persisted in discounting the possibility of that structure and did not. As always, your humble (but somewhat more open minded than you) respondent, Citizen Jimserac : I am, of course, disappointed, that you did not offer one of your : creatively fractured quotes at the end of your post and instead : offered up the standard "don't have a clue" offering and hope : that my posts will incense you to sufficient levels to at least : merit some new quotes. Why is it so important to you that your posts incense me? They don't, as much as you would like them to. Then again, since you don't believe in objective reality, I suppose that there's no way that I could possibly prove that to you. Pointing out that you are totally clueless doesn't incense me any more than pointing out that you have yet to provide any evidence that I have ever posted a message to m.h.a. with a .sig quote taken from _Alice in Wonderland_. : As always, your humble (but somewhat more open minded than you) respondent, There is a difference between being open minded and having holes in your head, and it's rather unfortunate that you cannot understand that. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "I have always observed that when people are interrupted in the performance of some egregious stupidity their feelings are hurt." -- Anthony Trollope, _Ayala's Angel_ On May 8, 9:11 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > funniest statement yet made here.... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > secondly....real medicine...is also not "one pill fits all"...but then you > would not know that since you have never prescribed "real" medicines.. We're even cuz I don't think you would recognize real research if it hit you in the face. Here, laugh THIS off: SURE I WOULD...I TOOK A MULTITUDE OF RESEARCH AND STAT CLASSES IN GRAD SCHOOL YOUR BELOW SOURCES ARE 99 PERCENT FROM THE SAME NON MEDICAL JOURNALS ....THAT IS NOT RESEARCH I HAVE A HUGE POOL FULL OF WATER ...WANT ME TO SEND YOU SOME?? ABOUT AS EFFECTIVE AS THE WATER SOLD IN HOMEOPATHY FORM SO NO...YOU LAUGH IT OFF... Homeopathy Research Evidence Base: References Iris R. Bell, MD PhD The University of Arizona College of Medicine ibell@u.arizona.edu Aickin M. The end of biomedical journals: there is madness in their methods. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2005; 11 (5): 755-7. Aickin M. Participant-centered analysis in complementary and alternative medicine comparative trials. J Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (6):949-57. Aickin M. Separation tests for early-phase CAM comparative trials. Evidence-Based Integrative Medicine 2004; 1 (4):225-31. Becker-Witt C, Weibhuhn T.E.R., Ludtke, R., Willich, S.N. Quality assessment of physical research in homeopathy. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (1):113-32. Bell IR. All evidence is equal, but some evidence is more equal than others: can logic prevail over emotion in the homeopathy debate? J Altern Complement Med. 2005; 11 (5):763-9. Bell IR. Evidence-based homeopathy: empirical questions and methodological considerations for homeopathic clinical research. American Journal of Homeopathic Medicine 2003; 96 (1):17-31. Bell IR, Baldwin CM, Schwartz GE. Translating a nonlinear systems theory model for homeopathy into empirical tests. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine. 2002a; 8 (3):58-66. Bell IR, Caspi O, Schwartz GE et al. Integrative medicine and systemic outcomes research: issues in the emergence of a new model for primary health care. Archives of Internal Medicine. 2002b; 162 (2):133-40. Bell IR, Koithan M. Models for the study of whole systems. Integrative Cancer Therapies 2006; 5 (4):293-307. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Brooks AJ et al. Individual differences in response to randomly assigned active individualized homeopathic and placebo treatment in fibromyalgia: implications of a double-blinded optional crossover design. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004a; 10 (2):269-83. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Brooks AJ et al. Improved clinical status in fibromyalgia patients treated with individualized homeopathic remedies versus placebo. Rheumatology 2004b; 43 (5):577-82. Bell IR, Lewis DA, 2nd, Lewis SE et al. EEG alpha sensitization in individualized homeopathic treatment of fibromyalgia. International Journal of Neuroscience 2004c; 114 (9):1195-220. Bell IR, Lewis DAI, Schwartz GE et al. Electroencephalographic cordance patterns distinguish exceptional clinical responders with fibromyalgia to individualized homeopathic medicines. J Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004d; 10 (2):285-99. Bell IR, Walsh, M., Russek, L.G.S., Schwartz, G.E.R. Proposed applications of conventional research concepts and tools to homeopathic clinical research. Journal of the American Institute of Homeopathy 1999; 92 (3):111-28. Bellavite P. Complexity science and homeopathy: a synthetic overview. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2003; 92 (4): 203-12. Bellavite P, Conforti A, Pontarollo F et al. Immunology and homeopathy. 2. Cells of the immune system and inflammation. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2006; 3 (1):13-24. Bellavite P, Signorini, A. The Emerging Science of Homeopathy. Complexity, Biodynamics, and Nanopharmacology. 2nd ed. Berkeley: North Atlantic Books; 2002. 408 pp. p. Bertani S, Lussignoli S, Andrioli G et al. Dual effects of a homeopathic mineral complex on carrageenan-induced oedema in rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (3):101-5. Betti L, Lazzarato L, Trebbi G et al. Effects of homeopathic arsenic on tobacco plant resistance to tobacco mosaic virus. Theoretical suggestions about system variability, based on a large experimental data set. Homeopathy 2003; 92 (4):195-202. Bikker AP, Mercer SW, Reilly D. A pilot prospective study on the consultation and relational empathy, patient enablement, and health changes over 12 months in patients going to the Glasgow Homoeopathic Hospital. J Altern Complement Med. 2005; 11 (4):591-600. Biswas SJ, Pathak S, Bhattacharjee N et al. Efficacy of the potentized homeopathic drug, Carcinosin 200, fed alone and in combination with another drug, Chelidonium 200, in amelioration of p- dimethylaminoazobenzene-induced hepatocarcinogenesis in mice. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5):839-54. Bootzin RR, Bailey ET. Understanding placebo, nocebo, and iatrogenic treatment effects. J Clin Psychology 2005; 61 (7):871-80. Brizzi M, Lazzarato L, Nani D et al. A biostatistical insight into the As(2)O(3) high dilution effects on the rate and variability of wheat seedling growth. Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd 2005; 12 (5): 277-83. Caspi O, Bell IR. One size does not fit all: aptitude-treatment interaction (ATI) as a conceptual framework for outcome research. Part I. What is ATI research? Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2004a; 10 (3):580-6. Caspi O, Bell IR. One size does not fit all: aptitude-treatment interaction (ATI) as a conceptual framework for outcome research. Part II. Research designs and their application. . Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. 2004b; 10 (4):698-705. Caulfield T, DeBow S. A systematic review of how homeopathy is represented in conventional and CAM peer reviewed journals. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2005; 5 (1):12. Chaplin MF. The Memory of Water: an overview. Homeopathy. 2007; 96 (3): 143-50 Chapman EH, Weintraub RJ, Milburn MA et al. Homeopathic treatment of mild traumatic brain injury: A randomized, double-blind, placebo- controlled clinical trial. Journal of Head Trauma Rehabilitation 1999; 14 (6):521-42. Coffey DS. Self-organization, complexity, and chaos: the new biology for medicine. Nature Medicine. 1998; 4 (8):882-5. Conforti A, Bellavite P, Bertani S et al. Rat models of acute inflammation: a randomized controlled study on the effects of homeopathic remedies. BMC Complement Altern Med 2007; 7:1. Dean ME, Coulter MK, Fisher P et al. Reporting data on homeopathic treatments (RedHot): a supplement to CONSORT. J Altern Complement Med 2007; 13 (1):19-23. Eizayaga FX, Aguejouf O, Belon P et al. Platelet aggregation in portal hypertension and its modification by ultra-low doses of aspirin. Pathophysiol Haemost Thromb 2005; 34 (1):29-34. Eizayaga FX, Aguejouf O, Desplat V et al. Modifications produced by indomethacin and L-NAME in the effect of ultralow-dose aspirin on platelet activity in portal hypertension. Pathophysiol Haemost Thromb 2006; 35 (5):357-63. Elia V, Napoli E, Germano R. The 'Memory of Water': an almost deciphered enigma. Dissipative structures in extremely dilute aqueous solutions. Homeopathy. 2007; 96 (3):163-9. Elia V, Niccoli, M. New physico-chemical properties of extremely diluted aqueous solutions. Journal of Thermal Analysis and Calorimetry 2004; 75:815-36. Elia V, Niccoli, M. Thermodynamics of extremely diluted aqueous solutions. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1999; 879:241-8. Endler PC, Pongratz W, Kastberger G et al. The effect of highly diluted agitated thyroxine on the climbing activity of frogs. Vet Hum Toxicol 1994; 36 (1):56-9. Endler PC, Pongratz W, Smith CW et al. Non-molecular information transfer from thyroxine to frogs with regard to homeopathic toxicology. Veterinary & Human Toxicology. 1995; 37 (3):259-60. Endler PC, Pongratz, W., van Wijk, R., Wiegant, F.A.C., Waltl, K., Gehrer, M., Hilgers, H. A zoological example on ultra high dilution research. Energetic coupling between the dilution and the organism in a model of amphibia. In: PC Endler, Schulte, J., editor, translator and editor Ultra High Dilution. Dordrecht, The Netherlands: Kluwer Academic Publishers; 1994; p. 39-68. Fisher P. Homeopathy and The Lancet. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med 2006; 3 (1):145-7. Frei H, Everts R, von Ammon K et al. Randomised controlled trials of homeopathy in hyperactive children: treatment procedure leads to an unconventional study design Experience with open-label homeopathic treatment preceding the Swiss ADHD placebo controlled, randomised, double-blind, cross-over trial. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (1):35-41. Frei H, Everts R, von Ammon K, Kaufmann F, Walther D, Hsu-Schmitz SF, Collenberg M, Fuhrer K, Hassink R, Steinlin M, Thurneysen A. Homeopathic treatment of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: a randomised, double blind, placebo controlled crossover trial. Eur J Pediatr. 2005; 164 (12):758-67. Frei H, Thurneysen A, von Ammon K. Methodological difficulties in homeopathic treatment of children with ADD/ADHD. J Altern Complement Med 2006a; 12 (2):104; author reply Frei H, Thurneysen A. Treatment for hyperactive children: homeopathy and methylphenidate compared in a family setting. British Homoeopathic Journal 2001; 90 (4):183-8. Frei H, von Ammon K, Thurneysen A. Treatment of hyperactive children: increased efficiency through modifications of homeopathic diagnostic procedure. Homeopathy. 2006b; 95 (3):163-70. Frenkel M, Hermoni D. Effects of homeopathic intervention on medication consumption in atopic and allergic disorders. Altern Ther Health Med 2002; 8 (1):76-9. Goldstein MS, Glik, D. Use of and satisfaction with homeopathy in a patient population. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine 1998; 4 (2):60-5. Guthlin C, Lange O, Walach H. Measuring the effects of acupuncture and homoeopathy in general practice: an uncontrolled prospective documentation approach. BMC Public Health 2004; 4 (1):4. Haidvogl M, Riley DS, Heger M, Brien S, Jong M, Fischer M, Lewith GT, Jansen G, Thurneysen AE. Homeopathic and conventional treatment for acute respiratory and ear complaints: a comparative study on outcome in the primary care setting. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2007; 2;7:7. Honda K, Jacobson JS. Use of complementary and alternative medicine among United States adults: the influences of personality, coping strategies, and social support. Preventive Medicine 2005; 40 (1): 46-53. Hyland ME, Lewith GT. Oscillatory effects in a homeopathic clinical trial: an explanation using complexity theory, and implications for clinical practice. Homeopathy 2002; 91 (3):145-9. Jacobs J, Jimenez LM, Gloyd SS et al. Treatment of acute childhood diarrhea with homeopathic medicine: a randomized clinical trial in Nicaragua. Pediatrics. 1994; 93 (5):719-25. Jacobs J, Jimenez LM, Malthouse S et al. Homeopathic treatment of acute childhood diarrhea: results from a clinical trial in Nepal. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2000; 6 (2):131-9. Jacobs J, Jonas WB, Jimenez-Perez M et al. Homeopathy for childhood diarrhea: combined results and metaanalysis from three randomized, controlled clinical trials. Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 2003; 22 (3):229-34. Jacobs J, Williams AL, Girard C et al. Homeopathy for attention- deficit/hyperactivity disorder: a pilot randomized-controlled trial. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5):799-806. Jonas W, Lin Y, Tortella F. Neuroprotection from glutamate toxicity with ultra-low dose glutamate. Neuroreport 2001; 12 (2):335-9. Jonas W, Lin, Y., Williams, A., Tortella, F., Tuma, R. Treatment of experimental stroke with low-dose glutamate and homeopathic Arnica montana. Perfusion 1999a; 12:452-62. Jonas WB. Do homeopathic nosodes protect against infection? An experimental test. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine 1999b; 5 (5):36-40. Jonas WB. The future of hormesis: what is the clinical relevance to hormesis? Critical Reviews in Toxicology. 2001; 31 (4-5):655-8. Jonas WB, Kaptchuk TJ, Linde K. A critical overview of homeopathy. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2003; 138 (5):393-9. Jutte R, Riley D. A review of the use and role of low potencies in homeopathy. Complement Ther Med 2005; 13 (4):291-6. Kundu SN, Mitra K, Khuda Bukhsh AR. Efficacy of a potentized homeopathic drug (Arsenicum-Aalbum-30) in reducing cytotoxic effects produced by arsenic trioxide in mice: IV. Pathological changes, protein profiles, and content of DNA and RNA. Complementary Therapies in Medicine 2000; 8 (3):157-65. Lamont J. Homeopathic treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. A controlled study. British Homoeopathic Journal 1997; 86:196-200. Langman MJS. Homeopathy trials: reason for good ones but are they warranted? Lancet 1997; 350:825. Lewith GT, Watkins AD, Hyland ME et al. Use of ultramolecular potencies of allergen to treat asthmatic people allergic to house dust mite: double blind randomised controlled clinical trial. BMJ 2002; 324 (7336):520-3 Linde K, Clausius N, Ramirez G et al. Are the clinical effects of homeopathy placebo effects? A meta-analysis of placebo-controlled trials. Lancet 1997; 350:834-43. Linde K, Jonas WB, Melchart D et al. The methodological quality of randomized controlled trials of homeopathy, herbal medicines and acupuncture. International Journal of Epidemiology 2001; 30 (3): 526-31. Lussignoli S, Bertani S, Metelmann H et al. Effect of Traumeel S, a homeopathic formulation, on blood-induced inflammation in rats. Complementary Therapies in Medicine 1999; 7 (4):225-30. Mallick P, Mallick JC, Guha B et al. Ameliorating effect of microdoses of a potentized homeopathic drug, Arsenicum Album, on arsenic-induced toxicity in mice. BMC Complement Altern Med 2003; 3:7. Marotta D, Marini A, Banaudha K et al. Non-linear effects of cycloheximide in glutamate-treated cultured rat cerebellar neurons. Neurotoxicology. 2002; 23 (3):307-12. Marotta D, Marini, A, Banaudha, K., Maharaj, S., Jonas, W.B. Nonlinear effects of glutamate and KCl on glutamate toxicity in cultured rat cerebellar neurons. International Journal of Neuroscience 2003; 113:45-56. Mathie RT. The research evidence base for homeopathy: a fresh assessment of the literature. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2003; 92:84-91. Mathie RT, Hansen L, Elliott MF et al. Outcomes from homeopathic prescribing in veterinary practice: a prospective, research-targeted, pilot study. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (1):27-34. Milgrom LR. Are randomized controlled trials (RCTs) redundant for testing the efficacy of homeopathy? A critique of RCT methodology based on entanglement theory. J Altern Complement Med 2005; 11 (5): 831-8. Neville-Smith R. Community hospital homeopathy clinic: audit of the first 12 months activity. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (1): 20-3. Oberbaum M, Singer SR, Vithoulkas G. The colour of the homeopathic improvement: the multidimensional nature of the response to homeopathic therapy. Homeopathy. 2005; 94 (3):196-9. Oberbaum M, Vithoulkas G, Van Haselen R. Clinical trials of classical homeopathy: reflections on appropriate research designs. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2003; 9 (1):105-11. Oberbaum M, Yaniv I, Ben-Gal Y et al. A randomized, controlled clinical trial of the homeopathic medication TRAUMEEL S in the treatment of chemotherapy-induced stomatitis in children undergoing stem cell transplantation. Cancer 2001; 92 (3):684-90. Rao ML, Roy R, Bell IR et al. The defining role of structure (including epitaxy) in the plausibility of homeopathy. Homeopathy 2007; 96 (3):175-82. Reilly D, Taylor, M.A., Beattie, N.G.M., Campbell, J.H., McSharry, C., Aitchison, T.C., Carter, R., Stevenson, R.D. Is evidence for homeopathy reproducible? Lancet 1994; 344:1601-6. Relton C, Weatherley-Jones E. Homeopathy service in a National Health Service community menopause clinic: audit of clinical outcomes. Journal of the British Menopause Society. 2005; 11 (2):72-3. Rey L. Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride. Physica A: Statistical mechanics and its applications. 2003; 323:67-74. Riley D, Fischer M, Singh B et al. Homeopathy and conventional medicine: an outcomes study comparing effectiveness in a primary care setting. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2001; 7 (2): 149-59. Robinson N, Donaldson J, Watt H. Auditing outcomes and costs of integrated complementary medicine provision--the importance of length of follow up. Complement Ther Clin Pract 2006; 12 (4):249-57. Roy R, Tiller W, Bell IR et al. The Structure of Liquid Water: Novel Insights from Materials Research and Potential Relevance to Homeopathy. Materials Research Innovation 2005; 9 (4):557-608. Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz L, Proa-Flores P et al. An evaluation of Coffea cruda effect on rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (3): 122-6. Ruiz-Vega G, Perez-Ordaz, L., Leon-Hueramo, O., Cruz-Vazquez, E., Sanchez-Diaz, N. Comparative effect of Coffea cruda potencies on rats. Homeopathy 2002; 91:80-4. Ruiz-Vega G, Poitevin B, Perez-Ordaz L. Histamine at high dilution reduces spectral density in delta band in sleeping rats. Homeopathy 2005; 94 (2):86-91. Ruiz G, Torres JL, Michel O et al. Homeopathic effect on heart rate variability. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (3):106-11. Ruiz G, Torres, J.L. Homeopathic effect on the sleep pattern of rats. British Homoeopathic Journal 1997; 86:201-6. Sevar R. Audit of outcome in 455 consecutive patients treated with homeopathic medicines. Homeopathy. 2005; 94 (4):215-21. Sevar R. Audit of outcome in 829 consecutive patients treated with homeopathic medicines. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (4): 178-87. Shang A, Huwiler-Muntener K, Nartey L, Juni P, Dorig S, Sterne JA, Pewsner D, Egger M. Are the clinical effects of homoeopathy placebo effects? Comparative study of placebo-controlled trials of homoeopathy and allopathy. Lancet. 2005; 366 (9487):726-32. Sukul A, Sarkar P, Sinhababu SP et al. Altered solution structure of alcoholic medium of potentized Nux vomica underlies its antialcoholic effect. British Homoeopathic Journal 2000; 89 (2):73-7. Sukul A, Sinhabau SP, Sukul NC. Reduction of alcohol induced sleep time in albino mice by potentized Nux vomica prepared with 90% ethanol. British Homoeopathic Journal 1999; 88 (2):58-61. Sukul NC, Bala, S.K., Bhattacharyya, B. Prolonged cataleptogenic effects of potentized homoeopathic drugs. Psychopharmacology 1986; 89:338-9. Sukul NC, De A, Sukul A et al. Potentized Mercuric chloride and Mercuric iodide enhance alpha-amylase activity in vitro. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2002; 91 (4):217-20. Sukul NC, Ghosh S, Sinhababu SP. Reduction in the number of infective Trichinella spiralis larvae in mice by use of homeopathic drugs. Forschende Komplementarmedizin und Klassische Naturheilkunde 2005; 12 (4):202-5. Sukul NC, Ghosh S, Sinhababu SP et al. Strychnos nux-vomica extract and its ultra-high dilution reduce voluntary ethanol intake in rats. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2001; 7 (2):187-93. Szeto AL, Rollwagen F, Jonas WB. Rapid induction of protective tolerance to potential terrorist agents: a systematic review of low- and ultra-low dose research. [Review] [19 refs]. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy 2004; 93 (4):173-8. Thompson E, Barron S, Spence D. A preliminary audit investigating remedy reactions including adverse events in routine homeopathic practice. Homeopathy: Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2004; 93 (4):203-9. Thompson EA, Oxon, B.A., Montgomery, A., Douglas, D., Reilly, D. A Pilot, Randomized, Double-Blinded, Placebo-Controlled Trial of Individualized Homeopathy for Symptoms of Estrogen Withdrawal in Breast-Cancer Survivors. Journal of Alternative & Complementary Medicine 2005; 11 (1):13-20. Thompson EA, Reillly D. The homeopathic approach to symptom control in the cancer patient: a prospective observational study. Palliative Medicine. 2002; 16 (3):227-33. Tiller WA. On chemical medicine, thermodynamics, and homeopathy. J Altern Complement Med 2006; 12 (7):685-93. Torres JL. Homeopathic effect: a network perspective. Homeopathy: the Journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy. 2002a; 91 (2):89-94. Torres JL. On the physical basis of succussion. Homeopathy 2002b; 91 (4):221-4. Torres JL, Ruiz MAG. Stochastic resonance and the homeopathic effect. British Homoeopathic Journal 1996; 85:134-40. van Wassenhoven M, Ives G. An observational study of patients receiving homeopathic treatment. Homeopathy 2004; 93 (1):3-11. van Wijk R, Bosman S, van Wijk EP. Thermoluminescence in ultra-high dilution research. J Altern Complement Med 2006; 12 (5):437-43. Van Wijk R, Wiegant FA. The similia principle as a therapeutic strategy: a research program on stimulation of self-defense in disordered mammalian cells. Alternative Therapies in Health & Medicine. 1997; 3 (2):33-8. van Wijk R, Wiegant, F.A.C. Cultured Mammalian Cells in Homeopathy Research. The Similia Principle in Self-Recovery. Utrecht, The Netherlands: Universiteit Utrecht; 1994. Vandenbroucke JP. Homeopathy trials: going nowhere. Lancet 1997; 350:824. Vickers AJ, Smith C. Homoeopathic Oscillococcinum for preventing and treating influenza and influenza-like syndromes. Cochrane Database Syst Rev 2006; 3:CD001957. Weatherley-Jones E, Nicholl JP, Thomas KJ et al. A randomised, controlled triple-blind trial of the efficacy of homeopathic treatment for chronic fatigue syndrome. Journal of Psychosomatic Research 2004a; 56:189-97. Weatherley-Jones E, Thompson E, Thomas K. The placebo-controlled trial as a test of complementary and alternative medicine: observations from research experience of individualised homeopathic treatment. Homeopathy. 2004b; 93 (4):186-9. Witt C, Keil T, Selim D, Roll S, Vance W, Wegscheider K, Willich SN. Outcome and costs of homoeopathic and conventional treatment strategies: a comparative cohort study in patients with chronic disorders. Complement Ther Med. 2005a; 13 (2):79-86. Witt C, Ludtke R, Weisshuhn TE, Willich SN. High homeopathic potencies are different from potentized solvent when investigated with the REDEM technology. Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2005b; 12 (1): 6-13. Witt CM, Bluth M, Albrecht H, Weisshuhn TE, Baumgartner S, Willich SN. The in vitro evidence for an effect of high homeopathic potencies--a systematic review of the literature. Complement Ther Med. 2007; 15 (2): 128-38. Witt CM, Ludtke R, Baur R et al. Homeopathic medical practice: long- term results of a cohort study with 3981 patients. BMC Public Health 2005; 5:115. Citizen Jimserac On May 10, 6:09 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Rather than blindly repeat anti-Homeopathy fallacies and innuendo, I urge you to read the article "Can Logic Prevail Over Emotion in the Homeopathy Debate" by Dr. Iris Bell, which can be found at this link: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp We have both made jibes but I assure you, to people who are very ill, such matters are of the greatest importance and I suggest you read some of the research before dismissing an entire system of medicine so easily. I myself initially found it as absurd and ludicrous as you did UNTIL I started looking past the Goldacre misrepresentations, Homeopathy experiment misrepresentations, and other purposeful lies to deny all funding and deny all positive effects to a system whose mechanisms remain unknown. I will remind you that vaccinations are used to this day, utilizing disabled viruses to stimulate a person's body to produce its own defense, a very HOMEOPATHIC idea, and it is accepted by standard medicine - even when dangerous preservative chemicals incurring dangerous side effects and/or illness are added into the mix. Citizen Jimserac > On May 10, 6:09 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Rather than blindly repeat anti-Homeopathy > fallacies Since homeopathy is a fallacy, anything that it anti-homeopathy cannot be a fallacy. It has to be factual. > Since homeopathy is a fallacy, anything that it anti-homeopathy cannot > be a fallacy. It has to be factual. Not true. It is false to say that you are 300 years old; however, saying you are 2 years old is not therefore true as a result. | sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+ > In message <964d5fa1-fe00-4f5b-a485-98aeb259d...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Not true. It is false to say that you are 300 years old; however, > saying you are 2 years old is not therefore true as a result. It is correct using AltLogic. "Mark S Probert" Merrick, NY > On May 11, 9:58 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Since homeopathy is a fallacy, anything that it anti-homeopathy cannot > be a fallacy. It has to be factual. You have raised objections properly and without innuendo and therefore your comments are deserving of a response. In addition, I wrongly criticized you a while back for being anti-Acupuncture when in fact, I think you said elsewhere you had experienced it and had some positive results or positive opinion about it. Last but not least, anyone who calls me "Jimmy" (sort of makes me feel young again) is deserving of at least some positive attention. D.C.has already criticized your logic error so I'll skip over that and direct your attention to the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine government National Institute of Health website at: http://nccam.nih.gov/health/homeopathy/#a1 You are directed to click on Appendix 1 link and read of the various tests some positive, some negative regarding Homeopathy. Here you will see for example THIS: "The homeopathic remedy oscillococcinum appears safe and effective in reducing the duration of influenza, but has no effect on prevention." or this one with negative results (but a little mystery at the end!): "Trial compared an oral homeopathic treatment to placebo in asthmatic people allergic to house dust. Authors found the homeopathic treatment "no better than placebo." They noted "some differences between the homeopathic immunotherapy and placebo for which we have no explanation."" or this: "Individualized homeopathic treatments improved digestive problems in children with acute childhood diarrhea. Results are consistent with findings of a previous study." or this: "The homeopathic treatment vertigoheel, and the standard treatment of betahistine, are equally effective in reducing the frequency, duration, and intensity of vertigo attacks." or this one regarding HIV "A subgroup of patients with HIV in the symptomatic phase, receiving treatment, had increased levels of CD4 cells at the end of the trial; the placebo subgroup did not." So, what we have hear are the typical research results, published right on a government web site, of research in progress. If ALL the results had been negative, then obviously nobody would be wasting time with it - and yet, here and there are some interesting positive results which warrant research and exploration. Your position then, that there is NO science behind Homeopathy, is incorrect - what is correct is to say that there is unknown science or mechanisms behind it. UNLESS you are God and already know everything, there is no way you can logically defend your statement - it requires omniscience. By blindly reasserting your outrage about Homeopathy, you are merely become a tool exploited by those industries which are threatened by Homeopathy and who stand to lose BILLIONS of dollars should it be proven correct, viable and of sound scientifc basis. I don't believe you want to be reduced to a patsy and I think you are far more intelligent than they would allow. Happy reading and learning! Citizen Jimserac > > On May 11, 9:58 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and without innuendo and therefore > your comments are deserving of a response. The only thing "in your endo" is your head. It can be flushed out using homepathy, a bogus system which is based on fallacies. Note, there is no innuendo in the second sentence. "Mark S Probert, Merrick, NY Get busy reading your Torah. This is *everyday*. : Get busy reading your Torah. This is *everyday*. Have you read the passage from Leviticus that I drew to your attention several months ago? ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean. Do you have to salt your truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?" Off topic. > : Get busy reading your Torah. This is *everyday*. : Off topic. :> : Get busy reading your Torah. This is *everyday*. If the subject is "off topic," then why did *you* bring it up? I think that your bot needs a software upgrade. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." > On May 11, 6:53 pm, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Note, there is no innuendo in the second sentence. Ah but THIS response is disappointing and will requre (sigh) a re-institution of my ignoring your posts for some unspecified duration... Conversation with this respondent abandoned. Citizen Jimserac > > On May 11, 6:53 pm, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Conversation with this respondent > abandoned. All you have to do Jimmie is to prove the fundamentals of homeopathy, i.e. that water has memory and that like cures like. As for your abaondoning of me, I am not surprised. I will not debate anyone who cannot prove the basics of their argument. It is akin to debating the direction of sunrise. On May 12, 8:06 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 12, 8:55 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Conversation with this respondent > abandoned. > On May 12, 8:06 pm, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Conversation with this respondent > > abandoned. Like all of the "aunties" he is capable of some pretty good points but you will note the speed with which they turn Homeopathy discussions into insults and innuendo - PARTICULARLY when links are given showing positive Homeopathy research literature and pdfs, like THIS one: http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp which is outstanding and suggested for those who do not allow OTHERS to do their thinking for them. The research results are confirmatory and obvious in their indication that the Homeopathic system of medicine is producing significant results and that a viable theoretical basis will inevitably arise from the results of the research. Citizen Jimserac No idiot quote needed, no insults, no clever remarks impugning the intelligence of anyone. Homeopathy speaks for itself as any intelligent person can discover with some simple exploring and avoidance of hysterical innuendo such as appeared recently in U.S. News And World Report (Feb 12 2008) with an article whose title appeared to be favorable to alternative medicine but the body of the article was NOT, EXPOSED AT THIS LINK: http://homeopathyusa.org/uploads/US%20got%20in%20wrong%20on%20integrative%20medi cine.doc > > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > PARTICULARLY when links are given showing positive > Homeopathy research literature and pdfs, like THIS one: Wrong, nitwit. I have told you a million times, that, so long as you cite sources which accept the ideas that "like cures like" and that water has memory, there is no point in discussing homeopathy. You first have to prove the basics. Your way is like designing a building without a foundation. > http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/research.jsp > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - :> On May 10, 6:09 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: :> Rather than blindly repeat anti-Homeopathy fallacies : Since homeopathy is a fallacy, anything that it anti-homeopathy cannot : be a fallacy. It has to be factual. That statement is itself an example of a popular logical fallacy (the false dilemma or fallacy of the excluded middle). For instance, if I were to say that homeopathy cannot be true because diseases can only be cured by the intervention of Martians, I would be saying something that is (as far as I know) not factual but is anti-homeopathy. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad." > In article <964d5fa1-fe00-4f5b-a485-98aeb259d...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote: > :> On May 10, 6:09 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > cured by the intervention of Martians, I would be saying something that > is (as far as I know) not factual but is anti-homeopathy. Richard, since homeopathy is based on fallacies, using fallacies to explain things to its supporters is necessary, since they do not understand RealLogic, just AltLogic. I was trying to speak their language. > In article <964d5fa1-fe00-4f5b-a485-98aeb259d...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote: > : On May 11, 9:58?am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ----- Wow! That was very nice of you to make that admission. There may be some hope for rational conversation with you yet. Citizen Jimserac :> That statement is itself an example of a popular logical fallacy (the :> false dilemma or fallacy of the excluded middle). For instance, if I :> were to say that homeopathy cannot be true because diseases can only be :> cured by the intervention of Martians, I would be saying something that :> is (as far as I know) not factual but is anti-homeopathy. : Wow! That was very nice of you to make that admission. I was not admitting anything. I was pointing out a logical fallacy in someone else's post. : There may be some hope for rational conversation with you yet. Rational conversation is the only kind that I have. Rational conversation with *you* is not possible, and will not be, until such time as you show any ability to perform what is generally known as "rational thinking." ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Why is it so important that you want to contact the governments of our Earth?" "Because of Death! Because all you of Earth are idiots!" > In article <f299bc5d-7a3d-4eb8-a08b-f8722eaa7...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > with *you* is not possible, and will not be, until such time as you > show any ability to perform what is generally known as "rational thinking." Good! I believe you and others of this newsgroup have become the unwitting dupes of a determined campaign to smear alternative medicine and to stop or slow its progress at all cost. We have seen these attacks from formerly prestigious medical journals and here is an example in what follows from an ordinary news magazine, U.S. News and World Report, Feb 08 2008. An expose' of this article appears at the following link: http://homeopathyusa.org/uploads/US%20got%20in%20wrong%20on%20integrative%20medi cine.doc and I will quote some paragraphs and allow you to decide for yourself if this is not rather poor jounalism; here are the comments of a Dr. Stengler ND regarding the cover article for the Jan 21st issue of U.S. News and World Report, "Embracing Alternative Care: Top Hospitals Put Unorthodox Therapies Into Practice" by one Avery Comarow: "In a meta-analysis of placebo-controlled clinical trials, patients taking homeopathic medicines were 2.45 times more likely to experience a positive therapeutic effect compared with placebo. This research was published in The Lancet, September 20, 1997. In another meta-analysis of clinical research that included 107 studies of homeopathic medicines, 77% showed positive effect (British Medical Journal, February 9, 1991). Other studies suggest the effectiveness of homeopathic remedies in helping treat chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (Chest, March 2005)... and aiding recovery from bruises after plastic surgery (Archives of Facial Plastic Surgery, January-February 2006)". You will, with your preoccupation on statistics, perhaps derive some insight into the limitations and misuse of such a science when you read the discussion in the article regarding the author's depiction of the figures from CDC showing increased alternative medicine use. Cheers and, am looking forward to more of the hilarious quotes! Thanks Citizen Jimserac " : I believe you and others of this newsgroup have become the unwitting : dupes of a determined campaign to smear alternative medicine and to : stop or slow its progress at all cost. As I said, logical thinking does not appear to be in your skill set. : Cheers and, am looking forward to more of the hilarious quotes! I'm still waiting you to tell me which one of them came from _Alice in Wonderland_. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- ". . .but even if it was an error, it had nevertheless a sort of grandeur. . ." --Franz Kafka, "Investigations of a |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message