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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008

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Chronic mercury exposure in childhood

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D. C. Sessions - 04 May 2008 04:13 GMT
http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic592.htm

Calomel (mercurous chloride) was an ingredient in laxatives,
diaper rinses, teething powder, and cosmetics prior to mercury
being banned from such uses in the USA (it is still used for
them in other countries.)  It was used so extensively that
there were quite a few cases of acrodynia, a severe disease
of chronic mercury poisoning.  

Acrodynia is pretty much unheard of today, which indicates
that mercury poisoning was more prevalent in the 1940s.
Therefore, barring rather profound confounding factors,
it is reasonable to conclude that other conditions caused
by mercury exposure would also have been much more common
than today.

Historical comparisons to the 1940s should, therefore, be
quite enlightening.

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 04 May 2008 12:39 GMT
> http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic592.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> | sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
> +--- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---+

skin changes were not reported in massive outbreaks of mercury
poisoning.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AVX4lipElScC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=Acrodynia++m
inamata+disease&source=web&ots=jDLBbXIno-&sig=qKPvJb75BUnd1vuZdfMrxCEznV4&hl=en


The major symptoms for congenital mercury poisoning is:

progressive microcephaly, seizures, cerebral palsy, fits of laughter,
excessive salivation,dysphagia, late walking, some never learn to
walk, none or little speech, mental retardation, tremors, ataxia.
D. C. Sessions - 04 May 2008 14:57 GMT
>> http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic592.htm
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> excessive salivation,dysphagia, late walking, some never learn to
> walk, none or little speech, mental retardation, tremors, ataxia.

... all of which were more commonly found in 1949 than today.
Thus my point: back then, LOTS of children (perhaps nearly all)
were exposed to enough mercury that symptoms of extreme exposure
were more common than today.

Thus if you think that a condition is caused or exacerbated by
mercury exposure, you should be able to find a peak in its
occurrance during the 40s.

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
drceephd@insightbb.com - 04 May 2008 23:24 GMT
> In message <12878254-f2d0-4f6a-b924-887213a82...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why do you try to confuse the issues about mercury?

Pinks disease and other disorders of mercury poisoning were
discovered, admitted, and the use discontinued.  However, this mercury
was in-organic, in the form of a merury salt, and the form of mercury
was +1 and not +2.  The route of entry was oral, or ingested.

The current issues about mercury center around organic mercury, ethyl
mercury, and this compound is injected, bypassing any detox or
protective mechanisms had the stuff been eaten.  This mercury compound
is converted to the ionic +2 mercury and becomes locked in place in
the tissues, particulary the brain.

Lastly, each human metabolizes the sh.t more or less efficently.
Those who excrete the poison less efficently suffer the most harm but
all are affected to a greater or lesser degree.

Again, why are you trying to muddy the waters?  The toxicity of
mercury is well known, the fact the docs could care less is obvious,
and the fact the federal government and big pharma is busy covering up
the truth is deploreable.

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 00:09 GMT
>> In message <12878254-f2d0-4f6a-b924-887213a82...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:

>> >>http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic592.htm
>>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> is converted to the ionic +2 mercury and becomes locked in place in
> the tissues, particulary the brain.

... which is also the place that the earlier mercury ended up, as
demonstrated by the neurotoxicity.  Route of administration might
vary the yield of the process, but in the end (according to sources
you've posted here) it all ends up as inorganic mercury in the CNS.

> Lastly, each human metabolizes the sh.t more or less efficently.
> Those who excrete the poison less efficently suffer the most harm but
> all are affected to a greater or lesser degree.

However, we have adequate historical records of *lots* of unquestioned
paediatric mercury poisonings, at a time recent enough that the
neurological diagnoses are at least correlate with today's.

> Again, why are you trying to muddy the waters?  The toxicity of
> mercury is well known, the fact the docs could care less is obvious,
> and the fact the federal government and big pharma is busy covering up
> the truth is deploreable.

No muddying involved.  A persistent topic on this board is speculation
on the effects of mercury toxicity in children.  I'm pointing out that
we have a large body of material on that exact subject where there is
no speculation required as to the nature of the cause.

If mercury is capable of doing a child harm, it did it in the 1940s.
In large numbers -- larger than today by comparison of acute case
frequency.

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 01:32 GMT
larger than today by comparison of acute case
> frequency.

Wrong.

I have no idea where and how you are coming up with these numbers, But
they arent making any sense.

> In message <44d601aa-242a-41e3-b704-182a4f146...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 03:46 GMT
> larger than today by comparison of acute case
>> frequency.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I have no idea where and how you are coming up with these numbers, But
> they arent making any sense.

Hey, if you have other data post it.  I cited a source and the basis:
in the 1940s, before it was illegal, mercury was used for a
*TEETHING* *REMEDY* -- and you think we didn't have acute mercury
toxicity in kids?

Pink disease (acrodynia) is a condition of such extreme mercury
toxicity that it isn't even seen today, but it was far more common
sixty years ago.

Again, just because the idea doesn't support your preconceptions
doesn't make it false.

>> In message <44d601aa-242a-41e3-b704-182a4f146...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 04:04 GMT
> Hey, if you have other data post it.  I cited a source and the basis:
> in the 1940s, before it was illegal, mercury was used for a
> *TEETHING* *REMEDY* -- and you think we didn't have acute mercury
> toxicity in kids?

I didnt say there wasnt an acute toxicity in children. I know about
the
teething remedy, How many children used it before it was taken off the
market.
Did any of the effected children develop neurodevelopmental
disorders?

Mercury does not effect all children the same way, Mercury targets the
heart, kidneys, liver,and
brain. For severe mercury poisoning it would effect the brain.

> Pink disease (acrodynia) is a condition of such extreme mercury
> toxicity that it isn't even seen today, but it was far more common
> sixty years ago.

Do we know it isnt seen today? My mother almost died after she
received
the pneumonia and flu vaccine on the same day.... She broke out in
what we call a mercury rash.
After 5 doctors, 4 months of testing, 4 skin graphs and her organs
beginning  to fail, she was detoxed by IV EDTA.
She is now doing fine, But will never take another vaccine again!

> Again, just because the idea doesn't support your preconceptions
> doesn't make it false.

I didnt disagree with you about the teething powder. I do disagree
with you in that you think mercury
poisoning just results in a rash.

> In message <5c0aa5c7-6c8d-496e-a122-0ab487bcd...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 109 lines]
> | sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
> +--- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---+
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 04:30 GMT
>> Hey, if you have other data post it.  I cited a source and the basis:
>> in the 1940s, before it was illegal, mercury was used for a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> teething remedy, How many children used it before it was taken off the
> market.

Enough that the severe mercury toxicity symptoms were not rare.

> Did any of the effected children develop neurodevelopmental
> disorders?

Well, that's the question isn't it?

>> Pink disease (acrodynia) is a condition of such extreme mercury
>> toxicity that it isn't even seen today, but it was far more common
>> sixty years ago.
>
> Do we know it isnt seen today?

Not commonly -- you can check the records.
It's not a hard diagnosis.

>> Again, just because the idea doesn't support your preconceptions
>> doesn't make it false.
>
> I didnt disagree with you about the teething powder. I do disagree
> with you in that you think mercury
> poisoning just results in a rash.

Where did you get the idea that I think that?  On the contrary.
The question is, what does it cause other than the textbook
symptoms?  If, for instance, I were to suspect that it causes
purple hair I would look to the 1940s for accounts of purple
hair -- if there were none, then that's not supportive of the
idea that mercury causes purple hair.

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 04:50 GMT
> > Did any of the effected children develop neurodevelopmental
> > disorders?
>
> Well, that's the question isn't it?

Children in Iraq were also mercury poisoned, The symptoms were the
same as in Minamata Japan.

Again...

Progressive microcephaly, seizures, no speech or very little speech,
fits of laughter, cerebral palsy, late unset of walking or failure to
walk, ataxia, tremors, excessive salivation, mental retardation.

Are you going to tell me there were no children in America born with
these symptoms in the 1940's?

> > I didnt disagree with you about the teething powder. I do disagree
> > with you in that you think mercury
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> hair -- if there were none, then that's not supportive of the
> idea that mercury causes purple hair.

I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
children who had cerebral palsy, microcephaly, seizures, failure to
walk, lack of speech...etc.. in the 1940's.

> In message <73a64901-e5c5-4d7e-baed-3aea29c56...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> | sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
> +--- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---+
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 05:53 GMT
>> > Did any of the effected children develop neurodevelopmental
>> > disorders?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Are you going to tell me there were no children in America born with
> these symptoms in the 1940's?

Not at all.  Now, are there other symptoms that the kids of the 40s
and in Iraq *haven't* developed in large numbers?

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Mark Probert - 05 May 2008 15:03 GMT
> I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> children who had cerebral palsy,

Cerebral palsy has nothing to do with mercury in any form.
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 15:15 GMT
> > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> > children who had cerebral palsy,
>
> Cerebral palsy has nothing to do with mercury in any form.

There are lots of causes to Cerebral Palsy, Mark.

Methyl-mercury, usually from contaminated food, is very dangerous to
pregnant women. Methyl-mercury causes profound mental retardation,
cerebral palsy, seizures, spasticity, tremors, and incoordination,
along with eye and hearing damage in the unborn baby as a result of
the mother's exposure. Organic mercury passes into the breast milk as
well.

http://www.calpoison.org/public/mercury.html

> > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> > children who had cerebral palsy,
>
> Cerebral palsy has nothing to do with mercury in any form.
Mark Probert - 05 May 2008 15:30 GMT
> > > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> > > children who had cerebral palsy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the mother's exposure. Organic mercury passes into the breast milk as
> well.

OK, I'll re-write.

ETHYL mercury has nothing to do with cerebral palsy.

Ethyl mercury is what we were discussing.
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 15:39 GMT
>> > > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
>> > > children who had cerebral palsy,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ethyl mercury is what we were discussing.

Actually, in this thread it's elemental mercury.
According to the alt-posters here, the end result of both
ethyl and methyl mercury are elemental mercury in the CNS.

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 16:02 GMT
> ETHYL mercury has nothing to do with cerebral palsy.
>
> Ethyl mercury is what we were discussing.

The Iraqi outbreak of mercury poisoning that resulted in children
being born with cerebral plasy was from Ethylmercury that was used to
treat grain that was sent over from Mexico.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qyoNMmh77PAC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=iraq+mercury+p
oisoning+cerebral+palsy&source=web&ots=3F3hLB6dD0&sig=QzTpJBRDRu29QUIv9h2wUdymQj
8&hl=en


> > > > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> > > > children who had cerebral palsy,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ethyl mercury is what we were discussing.
Mark Probert - 05 May 2008 16:27 GMT
> > ETHYL mercury has nothing to do with cerebral palsy.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=qyoNMmh77PAC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=ira...

Doseage is in no way comparable. You keep conveniently forgetting
that.
Jan Drew - 06 May 2008 05:31 GMT
On May 5, 10:15 am, Kevysmom <bluebun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> > > children who had cerebral palsy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the mother's exposure. Organic mercury passes into the breast milk as
> well.

OK, I'll re-write.

ETHYL mercury has nothing to do with cerebral palsy.

Ethyl mercury is what we were discussing.
==
Poor Mark S Probert

We were and are discussing  Chronic mercury exposure in childhood.
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 15:46 GMT
>> > I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
>> > children who had cerebral palsy,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> http://www.calpoison.org/public/mercury.html

So what were the rates of cerebral palsy in the 40s relative to
the 1950s after the use of mercury in so many products ceased?

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 16:05 GMT
> So what were the rates of cerebral palsy in the 40s relative to
> the 1950s after the use of mercury in so many products ceased?

I have no idea. But I think the only way a child would develop
cerebral palsy from
mercury poisoning would have to be poisoned while in utero.

> In message <54589064-a811-4cfd-862d-e31bedba0...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
D. C. Sessions - 06 May 2008 03:49 GMT
>> So what were the rates of cerebral palsy in the 40s relative to
>> the 1950s after the use of mercury in so many products ceased?
>
> I have no idea. But I think the only way a child would develop
> cerebral palsy from
> mercury poisoning would have to be poisoned while in utero.

As distinct from developing autism from exposure postpartum?

I'm curious: what is the basis for your distinction here?
(Yes, that's a rhetorical question.)

| sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
+--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Jan Drew - 06 May 2008 05:26 GMT
On May 4, 11:50 pm, Kevysmom <bluebun...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I know what the symptoms of mercury poisoning are, And yes we did have
> children who had cerebral palsy,

Cerebral palsy has nothing to do with mercury in any form.
==

Simply not true.

http://www.calpoison.org/public/mercury.html

Methyl-mercury, usually from contaminated food, is very dangerous to
pregnant women. Methyl-mercury causes profound mental retardation, cerebral
palsy, seizures, spasticity, tremors, and incoordination, along with eye and
hearing damage in the unborn baby as a result of the mother's exposure.
Organic mercury passes into the breast milk as well.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/AutismUniqueMercPoison.htm

h. Physical Presentations
There is a much higher rate of autism among children with cerebral palsy
than would be expected by chance (Nordin and Gillberg, 1996). Many autistic
children have abnormal muscle tone including hyper- and hypotonia, and many
are incontinent or have difficulty being toilet trained (Filipek et al,
1999; Church and Coplan, 1995). Several of the infants which Teitelbaum and
colleagues (1998) observed showed decreased arm strength, and Schuler (1995)
describes greater muscle weakness in the upper than the lower body.
Impairments in oral-motor function, including problems chewing and
swallowing, are common, as noted previously.

These impairments are seen in mercurialism as well. In the Iraqi and
Japanese epidemics, many children developed clinical cerebral palsy
(Amin-Zaki, 1979; Myers & Davidson, 1998; Gilbert & Grant-Webster 1995;
Dale, 1972). Amin-Zaki et al (1978) reported muscle wasting and lack of
motor power and control in most cases, complete paralysis in several cases,
and athetotic movements in 2 cases, of postnatally exposed children. In the
Iraqi babies and children, some had increased muscle tone, while others had
decreased muscle tone. Abnormal reflexes, spasticity, and weakness were
common. One child said "my hands are weak and do not obey me" (Amin-Zaki et
al, 1974 and 1978). The 12 year old who inhaled mercury vapor exhibited
weakness and decreased muscle strength (Fagala and Wigg, 1992). As in
autism, muscle weakness from mercury poisoning is most prominent in the
upper body (Adams et al, 1983). Acrodynia, for example, is marked by poor
muscle tone in general and loss of arm strength in particular (Farnesworth,
1997). Finally, difficulty in chewing and swallowing, salivation, and
drooling are common in children as well as adults; incontinence was observed
in children in the Iraqi Hg-crisis (Amin-Zaki, 1974 and 1978; Pierce et al,
1972; Snyder, 1972; Joselow et al, 1972; Smith, 1977).

Web  Results 1 - 10 of about 25,800 for Cerebral palsy mercury poisoning.
(0.04 seconds)
Kevysmom - 05 May 2008 02:22 GMT
Dr Cee,

Thanks for explaining things, But I dont think D.C will take his head
out of the sand long enough to see it.

On May 4, 6:24 pm, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:

> > In message <12878254-f2d0-4f6a-b924-887213a82...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, Kevysmom wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jan Drew - 05 May 2008 03:50 GMT
> http://www.emedicine.com/DERM/topic592.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Historical comparisons to the 1940s should, therefore, be
> quite enlightening.

http://enhs.umn.edu/5200/mercury/healtheffects.html

http://www.singerdentist.com/aug2006.asp

http://www.heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com/data/articles/44.htm

http://www.curezone.com/dental/amalgampage.asp

> | sh.t happens.  Sometimes it happens to you. |
> +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
 
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