Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008
Dark Ages CANCELLED - Expulsion of the SKEPTICS
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Citizen Jimserac - 01 May 2008 14:21 GMT The first step in the expulsion of the skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend that there is any logic whatever to their hysterical nonsense, personal attacks and ridicule characteristic of their "informed" postings.
Typically they will make sweeping generalities supported by nothing but the most specious reasoning and innuendo.
Martin, for example, considers Acupuncture to be a sham. Though he never provided a link, I was able to find a single German study which indicated that one out of 3 groups of test subjects for Acupuncture for back pain seemed to get positive results no matter where the needles were placed. Martin forgets to mention that the main group DID claim the highest benefit (those for whom the needles were placed in the traditional acuncture locations) DID claim the most benefit for relief from back pain.
Based on this ONE study, as opposed to thousands of others, Martin admits there is some effect but that ALL of Acupuncture is a sham or based on placebo effects.
Observe the simplistic nonsense of the reasoning behind this denial of the efficacy of Acupuncture - OF COURSE there is going to be some effect, some sensation if you poke a needle anywhere in the body, it MIGHT even distract from some chronic pain. But to claim that THIS is the "explanation" of ALL of Acupuncture is to ignore thousands of research studies, done by MD's and other fully qualified researchers showing effects of Acupuncture (done in the traditional points!) showing effects on aplastic anemia, the endocrine system, amelioration or elimination of migraines, comlete cure for Bell's palsy and on and on for hundreds of conditions many of which are recognized by the World Health Organization.
When challenged or given links showing the positive research, they either ignore it, or more frequently deny completely the validity of the research journals which print the research (look of astonishment on my face)!
Imagine if we did that with standard medicine! Suppose we say that ALL cancer research is to be disregarded because it appears in standard medicine cancer research journals and is therfore biased(!).
Such is the kind of arguments which appear against alternative medicine again and again, repeated by the fallacious and presumptious posters who brazenly try to foist this non-thinking innuendo as rational argument.
Formerly dominating this newsgroup, they have now receded somewhat to the background, and will continue to do so in the face of the overwhelming evidence, positive research and wide popular acceptance and embracement of the new (and some old!) alternative systems of medicine.
That these alternatives systems of medicine are now in the process of challenging and even DISPLACING some of the standard medical procedures which have fallen deservedly into disfavor, is proof of the wide popular realization that there is NO one true perfect system of medicine which replaces all others and that a wise INTEGRATIVE approach utilizing the best of MANY systems is the wise choice in this era of spiraling and out of control medical costs, declining services and inability of governments to support a sufficient health infrastructure.
Citizen Jimserac
jurimed2@yahoo.com - 01 May 2008 15:35 GMT > The first step in the expulsion of the > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Very good analysis. You're right on target - and you said so much nicer than I would have. One thing you missed, I think, is that the people you find here are more "pseudo-skeptic" than skeptic. Sort of the K-Mart copy of designer skepticism.
Skeptics themselves, I think, are a lower form of critic - the sort of people who, upon examination, you will find, have never accomplished anything, nothing at all, and are mentally incapable of that kind of action. They don't get invited to neighborhood parties, and they don't understand why people snub them, and shun them.
The trick I have found is to treat them with the respect they deserve - which is virtually NONE. Coming across a skeptic in your daily affairs is kind of like taking a walk through the park on a bright, sunny, day and suddenly stepping in fresh dog sh.t. The best thing to do is to get it wiped off quickly, and finish your nice, enjoyable walk... Even better is if you can find a skeptic to wipe your shoe off on.
Amused in California...
Tim Bolen
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 01 May 2008 17:50 GMT On May 1, 7:35 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The trick I have found is to treat them with the respect they deserve > - which is virtually NONE. Coming across a skeptic in your daily [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > walk... Even better is if you can find a skeptic to wipe your shoe > off on. I have to agree with you here about the skeptics or the "doubters." Common sense dictates what is too good to be true, and personal experience over rides what I call "skeptic think." Consumers have the right to purchase whatever they wish to purchase; and if they purchase something that does not do whatever it is they say they do, then they have choices to get their money back. Some products come with a money back guarantee, some come with a limited warranty, and some products come with zero guarantees.
I just moments ago had an in-house telephone conversation, with someone that is assisting me in getting whomever is bugging me electronically out of my life, which started in my former residence area and has continued to this day. It is not illegal where I live to practice alternative medicine nor be a consumer of such products. It was also not illegal to partake in alternative medicine in my former residence area nor to be a consumer of such products, and since I have not specifically told anyone where I live in this forum, there will be questions to be answered as to the why the necessity of continuing to track my whereabouts. It would appear to be an abuse of the governmental security program.
Coleah - 01 May 2008 18:06 GMT On May 1, 9:35 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > The first step in the expulsion of the > > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > Tim Bolen Spoken directly from the character of a +$100,000 IRS tax deadbeat.....who has demonstrated his ability for 'wiping dog sh.t' on all taxpayers of America. Isn't he 'cutesy'? Winky, winky.
jurimed2@yahoo.com - 02 May 2008 08:21 GMT > On May 1, 9:35 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 129 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Coleah:
Have you considered kicking in some money to help Polevoy?
You seemed SO SUPPORTIVE of his actions before, why aren't you helping him now? $50,000 from you would keep the wolf away from his door a little longer, don't you think?
What's the problem? Don't you feel any guilt, or remorse, for encouraging that little rodent ,while he was falsely attacking Ilena Rosenthal, the selfless health leader who the California Supreme Court almost annointed for Sainthood in their decision?
Cough up some cash. You, and yours, LOST...
Steadfast in California...
Tim Bolen
David Wright - 05 May 2008 04:14 GMT >> On May 1, 9:35 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >Rosenthal, the selfless health leader who the California Supreme >Court almost annointed for Sainthood in their decision? That doesn't sound like any Rosenthal I've heard of. I do know of a self-aggrandizing individual who has identified herself with the breast implant issue...
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Citizen Jimserac - 01 May 2008 19:28 GMT On May 1, 10:35 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > The first step in the expulsion of the > > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > Tim Bolen Thanks!
Citizen Jimserac
Richard Schultz - 01 May 2008 15:43 GMT : Typically they will make sweeping generalities : supported by nothing but the most specious : reasoning and innuendo. P.K.B., especially considering your continued refusal to accept my offer to explain to you the statistical problems in determining the efficacy of a therapy under investigation.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "I have always observed that when people are interrupted in the performance of some egregious stupidity their feelings are hurt." -- Anthony Trollope, _Ayala's Angel_
drceephd@insightbb.com - 01 May 2008 16:06 GMT > The first step in the expulsion of the > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac If you wished to INTERGRAGTE naturopathy, orthopathy, oriental med, ayuervedic, chiropractic,etc., I could agree.
However, we must absolutely forbid the practice of allopathy and their efforts to "poison the ill into getting well." Those who practice this muderous philosophy must be shunned and probably imprisoned for their quackery.
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
D. C. Sessions - 01 May 2008 16:30 GMT > However, we must absolutely forbid the practice of allopathy and their > efforts to "poison the ill into getting well." Those who practice > this muderous philosophy must be shunned and probably imprisoned for > their quackery. I appreciate your frankness in stating your platform.
I do see a few problems, though, in distinguishing the sheep (as it were) from the goats given that several "alternative" practices accept key parts of what you call "allopathy."
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 01 May 2008 17:11 GMT > Formerly dominating this newsgroup, > they have now receded somewhat to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of the new (and some old!) alternative > systems of medicine. However, CJ, as you will notice -- they are going through their menu of items which would appear to come from the QW pages of unacceptable health care practices---even read a newspaper article in the UK this a.m., where it would appear that there are skeptics trying to engage the public in believing that those that practice alternative medicine are "Kooks." Just as we have seen in this newsgroup for ages. What happened to "for liberty and justice for all?" Where's the liberty? Where is the Justice?
Citizen Jimserac - 01 May 2008 19:26 GMT On May 1, 12:11 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Formerly dominating this newsgroup, > > they have now receded somewhat to the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "for liberty and justice for all?" Where's the liberty? > Where is the Justice? Well said! The situation is even worse than you suggest. If people allow themselves to be swayed by the innuendo, pseudo logic and ridicule of the pseudo skeptic "quackers", this represents a switching OFF of their thinking ability and permanently bars valid research from getting the disemination, funding and discussion that is needed in a free and open scientific exchange of ideas.
As you say, this is happening in the UK right now where a concerted and near hysterical UNscientific attack has been waged against Homeopathy for over a decade. Overlooked is the wonderful work at the Royal London Homeoapthic Hospital's full embracement of SEVERAL alternative medcine modalities including Acupuncture, and a growing body of Homeopathic research indicates the potential of major breakthroughs, poking holes in the "iron curtain" of orthodoxy which has fallen across research, stifling innovation and discovery and frightening younger researchers into the conformity of accepted but unpromising pharma "approved" channels.
Even when Homeopathic treatments provide overwelhming evidence of success, it is disparaged and dismissed as "just" an application of Herbology (for low potency low dilution Homeopathic remedies) or a violation of Avodadro's law (for high potency high dilution) remedies. Dismissing completely the obvious amelioration, cure, or improvement in the patient's condition, the dark ages ortho-ducks quack on and on about statistical violations while completely ignoring the possibility and potential that major illnesses, such as the "bird" flu, may have viable treatments that can save lives.
We will no longer suffer the solemn pronouncements of the self appointed skeptical quackologists, ready at every turn to dismiss ALL research, disparage valid researchers, reduce ALL alternative medicine to "placebo" (sic) effect - all without lifiting a finger, reading a book, supplying one or two pathetic links on anything whatsoever and then act as though they have conclusively made some major refutation based on their imagined reductionistic pap.
Thanks Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 01 May 2008 20:21 GMT On May 1, 12:11 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Just as we have seen in this newsgroup for ages. What happened to > "for liberty and justice for all?" Where's the liberty? > Where is the Justice? Citizen Jimserac wants to expel people who disagree with him.
Why are you not supporting their free speech?
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 18:16 GMT > Why are you not supporting their free speech? Very interesting comment -- I spoke to an attorney for the ACLU the other day---concerning my civil liberties---people using keystroke programs on my computer-hacking into my system, changing passwords on email accounts with out permission, recording in home conversations, eavesdropping on telephone conversations, etc., it would appear that there may be individuals connected to this forum that dislike alternative health care so much that they are harassing them in their own homes.
That comes across as violations of 1st amendment rights, would you not agree I really like the keystroke programs running on my computer. It adds such a wonderful touch to my life.
I'm looking forward to next week - there will be a lot of cleaning going on in my life and others as well!!
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 19:03 GMT >> Why are you not supporting their free speech?
> Very interesting comment -- I spoke to an attorney for the ACLU the > other day---concerning my civil liberties---people using keystroke [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > alternative health care so much that they are harassing them in their > own homes.
> That comes across as violations of 1st amendment rights, would you not > agree No, for two reasons: 1) It's not (at least as you have alleged it) and act of the Government, and thus would not fall under the Bill of Rights at all. 2) If it *were* an act of the Government it would fall under the Fourth Amendment, not the First.
I'm afraid your attorney got his law degree from a box of snack food.
> I really like the keystroke programs running on my computer. > It adds such a wonderful touch to my life. That would be a violation of the Computer Crime and Abuse statute.
> I'm looking forward to next week - there will be a lot of cleaning > going on in my life and others as well!! No comment.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 22:38 GMT > I'm afraid your attorney got his law degree from a box of snack food. He's not MY attorney.
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 23:24 GMT >> I'm afraid your attorney got his law degree from a box of snack food. > > He's not MY attorney. That's good, because his ideas of Constitutional law would have flunked him out of primary-school civics. At a guess, he's lying about being an attorney at all. You might consider reporting him to the State Bar.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
MothWrangler - 04 May 2008 01:32 GMT >>>Why are you not supporting their free speech? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I'm afraid your attorney got his law degree from a box of snack food. Perhaps in this case, ACLU stands for Alternative Civil Liberties Union, and the attorney in question is practicing some kind of alternative to mainstream Constitutional Law.
The *American* Civil Liberties Union attorneys who I know personally or by reputation are top notch, and would not make such an egregious mistake of basic Constitutional law.
 Signature Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1 Ann/Emma Anne #4
David Wright - 03 May 2008 19:53 GMT >> Why are you not supporting their free speech? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >That comes across as violations of 1st amendment rights, would you not >agree I would not agree, unless the persons doing this were agents of the government. If they're private citizens, it's not a first amendment issue, though it's probably criminal.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 04 May 2008 05:09 GMT > I would not agree, unless the persons doing this were agents of the > government. If they're private citizens, it's not a first amendment > issue, though it's probably criminal. I'm sure the people that post here know exactly what I am talking about. It goes back to 1997, and I'm sure the individuals connected never thought I'd put the puzzle together.
MothWrangler - 04 May 2008 07:27 GMT >>I would not agree, unless the persons doing this were agents of the >>government. If they're private citizens, it's not a first amendment [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 1997, and I'm sure the individuals connected never thought I'd put the > puzzle together. *I* don't know what you're talking about.
(Does anyone here other than Bee know what Bee's talking about? If so, please clue me in.)
It seems to me, Bee, that if you're going to keep posting and posting and posting about this hacking of your computer, and surveillance of your computer and phone activities, and you know that the persons who are responsible for this surveillance either post to, or monitor, (or control?!) the posting activity on MHA, why you can't just come right out and tell us exactly who "they" are, and why "they" are after you, and why "they" decided to take the actions that they have.
What do you have to gain by being so secretive about who "they" are?
Wouldn't it be better for you, and for the innocent MHA posters, if you named names already, so we all know who the perpetrators of this nefarious plot against you are, and why they have you under such intrusive and highly expert surveillance for something that dates back to 1997?
Wouldn't you be safer if you identified who "they" are who are out to get you, and explain to us what they hope to gain?
Although, you must at least feel somewhat good that, as powerful as "they" surely must be, "they" are concerned enough about you that "they" are keeping tabs on you, both on the Internet and in your home. "They" obviously feel you are very important indeed, and influential, and very very dangerous to whatever it is that "they" control. If "they" didn't think so, they wouldn't pay any attention to you.
 Signature Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1 Ann/Emma Anne #4
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 04 May 2008 18:46 GMT > (Does anyone here other than Bee know what Bee's talking about? If so, > please clue me in.) As an attorney, as it is rumored that you are -- I'm sure you are aware of client-attorney privilege. You are neither my attorney nor am I your client, (and I'd like to get the rumor straightened out, if you are not an attorney, please), It is just a "head's up" to the individuals that post here that I now know about the connection, and it has something to do to with the Environmental Health Clinic in Dallas, and Dr. Rea and another connection.
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 04 May 2008 23:01 GMT > > (Does anyone here other than Bee know what Bee's talking about? If so, > > please clue me in.) Interestingly, it would appear that my first stay at the Environmental Health Clinic was beneficial to other parties --and I'm not talking at all about what transpired with Dr. Rea at the clinic -- but it would appear to have benefited the ears of others. While I was at the clinic during my stay there, there was a guy that they called, the crazy Russian, who bugged the lights in the hallway at the Clinic, and a business Manager who claimed the computers were stolen so they had to had to put inside security in the hallways of the clinic -- never thought much of the sleazy business manager (they got wise and terminated his butt), and somehow the van driver, Michael managed to stay on-until they got wise to him. Neither the less, there are a couple of other connections that are pretty sad when the privacy of patients is compromised.
Mark Probert - 03 May 2008 20:12 GMT On May 3, 1:16 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Why are you not supporting their free speech? > > Very interesting comment -- I spoke to an attorney for the ACLU the > other day--- How conveniently timely. You seem to have a certain knack for this.
concerning my civil liberties---people using keystroke
> programs on my computer-hacking into my system, changing passwords on > email accounts with out permission, recording in home conversations, > eavesdropping on telephone conversations, etc., it would appear that > there may be individuals connected to this forum that dislike > alternative health care so much that they are harassing them in their > own homes. let me ask you a question and please provide a direct answer.
What you describe (surveillance, home invasion, etc.) is something so sophisticated that it would cost major time and MONEY.
What makes you so important that anyone in their right mind would spend the time and money for such an attack?
> That comes across as violations of 1st amendment rights, would you not > agree No, I would not agree. Do read the First Amendment and try real hard to figure out why. I'll give you a starter. The First Amendment states that "Congress shal make no law...."
> I really like the keystroke programs running on my computer. > It adds such a wonderful touch to my life. You are a touch typist.
> I'm looking forward to next week - there will be a lot of cleaning > going on in my life and others as well!! I recall that you made some sort of similar claim years ago, and we waited....
and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited... and waited...
and then you stopped posting.
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 20:49 GMT > I recall that you made some sort of similar claim years ago, and we > waited.... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > and then you stopped posting. Which only goes to PROVE that "they" succeeded in silencing her Frea Speach!
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 22:36 GMT > Which only goes to PROVE that "they" succeeded in > silencing her Frea Speach! Not all. By the way have you ever heard of an ISP in Phoenix called Global Crossings? There seems to be a love affair with my computer and that ISP, amongst other ones. Wasn't McCain involved with them somehow??
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 23:23 GMT > Not all. By the way have you ever heard of an ISP in Phoenix called > Global Crossings? There seems to be a love affair with my computer > and that > ISP, amongst other ones. Wasn't McCain involved with them somehow?? Global Crossing was one of the big-name telecom expansion outfits during the dot-com bubble. They bought out my previous ISP (primenet.com) and dropped their end-user ISP business in favor of doing corporate hosting.
As far as I'm aware, they are still pretty much exclusively a hosting service.
Any connection to Senator McCain (aside, obviously, from doing business in his state) is news to me. Can't honestly say that I've been keeping tabs on either.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 22:23 GMT ...
> and waited... > and waited... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > and then you stopped posting. Waiting drives people absolutely up the wall---does it not?
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 22:33 GMT > What you describe (surveillance, home invasion, etc.) is something so > sophisticated that it would cost major time and MONEY. > > What makes you so important that anyone in their right mind would > spend the time and money for such an attack? Of course it does.
It would appear that there are individuals here that know exactly what I am talking about - why doncha you have them explain? (You appear to know them, and stick up for them all of the time).
MothWrangler - 04 May 2008 07:02 GMT >>What you describe (surveillance, home invasion, etc.) is something so >>sophisticated that it would cost major time and MONEY. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > why doncha you have them explain? (You appear to know them, > and stick up for them all of the time). Well, I haven't a clue what you're alluding to.
Are you someone real important to the government for some reason?
 Signature Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1 Ann/Emma Anne #4
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 06 May 2008 04:53 GMT > Are you someone real important to the government for some reason? Absolutely not, but there would appear to be individuals here that have lots of connections that are not in favor of alternative health choices.
You know if you are speaking out for PRO choice in healthcare, you run the risk of being harassed by individuals that are in favor of "NO CHOICE." Individuals which appear to have conflicts of interest.
This is the only forum that I post in, and the problems that have been on-going since 1998 when I got ill, and have continued since then. It would appear that anyone that speaks out in an alternative health care group for pro choice is not welcome in an alternative health newsgroup, and sadly are made to feel what they have to say is bunk. It is all about choice; if it works for someone, then why belittle them because it does? There are a lot of things I wouldn't try, but using common sense about something, you can tell the difference between snake oil, and something that could work.
I would rather take part in preventive health practices. As with the MCS that I have managed to slowly overcome, that was by choice -- I did not want to become the disease. When you become the disease you miss out so much on life. I have friends with M.S., for example, they have become the disease. They worry about all of the things they used to do, that they cannot do any more, instead of focusing on what they can still do, and other things they haven't tried that they could do. There was no magic pill that I could take in conventional medicine that I could take to overcome the disease; I had no zero but to step outside of the conventional world, and add alternatives to my life to overcome my problems so I did not become the disease. I have a friend with chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia -- she literally stopped living because she became the disease instead of trying new things because her prescription drugs were not giving her life back to her. I've got her juicing, and she feels better. You have to put everything in focus -- it took a long time to sick, and you cannot expect a miracle over night. But as long as you have a goal to shoot for, and surround yourself with positive people, and this is what I expected this forum to be -- but it is not what it is, it is the constant put down of individuals that try something different than those individuals so focused on conventional medicine 100%.
Most people that try alternative health therapies have that positive attitude --- but the "grumpy old men and women" that hang out here and put down individuals like myself to trying alternative health therapies would appear to have other agendas that they have yet to disclose.
Mark Probert - 06 May 2008 13:56 GMT On May 5, 11:53 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Are you someone real important to the government for some reason? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > CHOICE." > Individuals which appear to have conflicts of interest. That is a lie. No one opposes choice in health care. What is happening is that YOU oppose anyone who speaks about the false claims of those who promote alternatives, like ear candling.
YOU then whine about how they oppose choice. Bullshit. YOU oppose discussion.
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 06 May 2008 16:17 GMT > That is a lie. No one opposes choice in health care. What is happening > is that YOU oppose anyone who speaks about the false claims of those > who promote alternatives, like ear candling. > > YOU then whine about how they oppose choice. Bullshit. YOU oppose > discussion. The shoe is on the other foot.
Mark Probert - 06 May 2008 20:01 GMT On May 6, 11:17 am, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > That is a lie. No one opposes choice in health care. What is happening > > is that YOU oppose anyone who speaks about the false claims of those [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The shoe is on the other foot. Nope, dope, I placed it right where it belongs.
I described precisely what you do.
To bad if you do not like it.
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 06 May 2008 20:05 GMT > Nope, dope, I placed it right where it belongs. > > I described precisely what you do. > > To bad if you do not like it. Who are you calling a "dope?" I'm hardly that. What bugs you the most is that you are not used to a woman standing up to you and challenging you. It would appear that you dislike strong women, or anyone that does not agree with you.
Kevysmom - 03 May 2008 23:49 GMT On May 3, 1:16 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Why are you not supporting their free speech? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I'm looking forward to next week - there will be a lot of cleaning > going on in my life and others as well!! what is a keystroke program?
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 04 May 2008 05:11 GMT > what is a keystroke program? There are plenty of computer experts around these parts, I'm sure one of them would be happy to tell you.
MothWrangler - 04 May 2008 01:55 GMT >>Why are you not supporting their free speech? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > That comes across as violations of 1st amendment rights, would you not > agree I don't agree--<conspiracy theory> unless...your computer related issues are the result of the passage of some law that somehow resulted in the take-over of your computer so you could not engage in free speech </conspiracy theory>.
> I really like the keystroke programs running on my computer. > It adds such a wonderful touch to my life. I don't understand. Are you still using this computer? And, if so, why?
I've read some previous posts in which you indicated that your computer was acting in a manner which would indicate that it had been hacked, or that indicated that perhaps you had downloaded some kind of virus or trojan that would allow someone to use it as a zombie computer. It seem to me that your complaints that I read about this go back quite a while. Yet, you write as though you continue to use the same computer while it has the same issues.
I don't know why you'd want to use a computer which you know is compromised, if for no other reason that your ISP will frown on the spam, viruses, and other nasty things your computer may be spewing out and sending into cyberspace.
> I'm looking forward to next week - there will be a lot of cleaning > going on in my life and others as well!! ?? Are you going to some kind of group colon cleaning?
 Signature Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1 Ann/Emma Anne #4
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 06 May 2008 04:10 GMT > I don't know why you'd want to use a computer which you know is > compromised, if for no other reason that your ISP will frown on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -- Ofcourse I am still using the computer that is being compromised--with the keystroke program. It would appear that there are nosy individuals, and since I am not doing anything illegal, and law enforcement, and my ISP are fully aware of the situation, that it would appear that it has something to do with this forum as this is the only place I post, and it would appear from the information taken off of this computer, that I didn't put on there -- that there would appear to be some individuals that have entirely too much time on their hands, and getting into someone else's business they would appear to feel is their right.
Colon cleansing in two weeks. I'm doing it to found out how much poop comes out, so the information came be given to David Wright. I'm not buying the 40#s that came out of John Wayne upon his death, but I know that my transit time is 12 hours -you should go three times a day according to healthcare providers, but I'm not quite up to that. But I do some juicing and that would appear to have helped tremdously.
I know you are involved with autistic children -- there is some research being done at a medical college using some form of quantum physics. My neighbor has an autistic child--and she heard about it. I told her before she packs her bags to let me interview the researchers. I guess the cost is minimal (almost free). Since the medications do not work for her daughter, and diet does not seem to help, that any time anyone hears of anything, they want to try before investigation. If this therapy really works, what a wonderful tool it will be.
No, the cleaning up refers to something completely different and that this time I am not privy to share the information on this forum.
Mark Probert - 01 May 2008 20:20 GMT > The first step in the expulsion of the > skeptics You call yourself "Citizen Jimserac" and want to expell people who disagree with you. However, your 'nym becomes more and more Orwellian with each passing day.
Why are you so afraid of people who refute your claims?
Usenet is the embodiment of Oliver Wendell Holmes' Free Marketplace of Ideas.
Learn to live with it.
mindy - 01 May 2008 22:05 GMT > > The first step in the expulsion of the > > skeptics [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Learn to live with it.
> Usenet is the embodiment of Oliver Wendell Holmes' Free Marketplace of > Ideas. > > Learn to live with it. Very Nicely Put Mark! and not to forget it's also marketplace of "Free" ideas.
Mark Probert - 02 May 2008 13:38 GMT > > > The first step in the expulsion of the > > > skeptics [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Very Nicely Put Mark! and not to forget it's also marketplace of > "Free" ideas Good point. OWH is one of my heroes.
David Wright - 02 May 2008 01:50 GMT >The first step in the expulsion of the >skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend >that there is any logic whatever >to their hysterical nonsense, personal attacks >and ridicule characteristic of their >"informed" postings. You're not in a position to expell anyone from anything, and since you seem to be less than a paragon of rationality yourself, I don't think you're likely to be given that power.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Citizen Jimserac - 02 May 2008 04:08 GMT > In article <b8efad65-472f-489a-951a-c99bd9866...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." > -- John Dolan FOOL! You have sucked up the purposeful misinterpretation of "expulsion" promulgated by one of their own number. Of COURSE it is an open newsgroup and the comments of ALL are welcome as I have said many times.
So what is this "expulsion" all about?
These self appointed pseudo skeptics have been symbolically expelled BY ME from my conversations and I urge others to do the same. They no longer deserve the dignity even of a response if they are going to persist in their unreasoning protestations, disruptions and distractions.
Well reasoned logical people exchange comments and ideas based on facts, information, open minded opinion, even when dealing with speculative science, research and the unknown. The persons in question attempt to DENY ALL VALIDITY TO ENTIRE FIELDS OF MEDICINE. THIS is a kind of thought control and the insidious part is that ANY attempt to engage in well reasoned discourse with them ends up becoming fodder for their pretend logic innuendo.
In other words, the act of attempting well reasoned discourse with these people dignifies their pseudo-arguments and allows them to subvert the process of logic and maintain the illusion of a well reasoned conversation.
I'm NOT going along with it any more and will IDENTIFY such attempts and TERMINATE the conversation in the future when it happens.
This attitude constitutes an EXPULSION of the skeptics mode and modus operandi, hence of the skeptics themselves until they are ready to use reason, provide links or information supportive of their sweeping negative assertions and be ready to accept the indications of reality and the validity of proof.
Citizen Jimserac
David Wright - 02 May 2008 04:59 GMT >> In article ><b8efad65-472f-489a-951a-c99bd9866...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >going to persist in their unreasoning protestations, >disruptions and distractions. And you're expelling them so completely that you still feel compelled to reply to their every posting, announcing that you're ignoring them.
Pathetic and a waste of bandwidth.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 02 May 2008 05:47 GMT > Pathetic and a waste of bandwidth. You are, but of course, as it would appear to be describing yourself on this forum, correct?
David Wright - 03 May 2008 03:07 GMT >> Pathetic and a waste of bandwidth. >> >You are, but of course, as it would appear to be describing yourself >on this forum, correct? I realize that a lame riposte like that is all you're capable of, but must you prove it?
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Citizen Jimserac - 03 May 2008 03:36 GMT > In article <86dfa7b9-97ed-4f83-839c-99127663f...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I realize that a lame riposte like that is all you're capable of, but > must you prove it?
>you still feel compelled >to reply to their every posting Wow, looks like you're a little compelled there yourself, dude.
Citizen Jimserac
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 03 May 2008 18:04 GMT > I realize that a lame riposte like that is all you're capable of, but > must you prove it? You must know by now that not everyone shares your same enthusiasm for alternative health experiences.
When you post nasty comments, you will get nasty comments back---- because you apparently like to play in the mud ----slinging some back at you -- you do not like. Being disrespectful to individuals who do not share your biased narrow minded opinions would appear your game-----I'm thinking of inventing a BORED game and naming it after you.
I have yet to understand why you post here when it is apparent you have no personal experience in anything but attacking individuals that have made the choice to experience different forms of alternative treatments, Just because you read it in a book or on someone's website does not necessarily make it true for all persons nor does it make it false.
I've scheduled a colon cleansing for 2 weeks from now. I'll let you know how much poop comes out--- weight wise --- want to take any bets?
Mark Probert - 03 May 2008 20:06 GMT On May 3, 1:04 pm, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I realize that a lame riposte like that is all you're capable of, but > > must you prove it? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > know how much poop comes out--- > weight wise --- want to take any bets? You will shrink to an infinitely small point.
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 04 May 2008 05:10 GMT > > I've scheduled a colon cleansing for 2 weeks from now. I'll let you > > know how much poop comes out--- > > weight wise --- want to take any bets? > > You will shrink to an infinitely small point. No bets, Probert? I'm guessing on 11 pounds or so. :>)
David Wright - 04 May 2008 23:43 GMT >> > I've scheduled a colon cleansing for 2 weeks from now. I'll let you >> > know how much poop comes out--- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >No bets, Probert? I'm guessing on 11 pounds or so. :>) You have to subtract the weight of the water that was pumped in (and came out again) so that you can get an accurate measurement.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
D. C. Sessions - 05 May 2008 00:00 GMT >>> > I've scheduled a colon cleansing for 2 weeks from now. I'll let you >>> > know how much poop comes out--- [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You have to subtract the weight of the water that was pumped in (and > came out again) so that you can get an accurate measurement. You can't tell her what she "has to" do.
More precisely, "you would have to subtract the weight ... in order to get ..." Which may not be what she wants.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Richard Schultz - 05 May 2008 06:00 GMT : You can't tell her [Bee] what she "has to" do. Especially since she doesn't believe in objective reality.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 06 May 2008 05:16 GMT > You have to subtract the weight of the water that was pumped in (and > came out again) so that you can get an accurate measurement. I'm talking strictly about the items of interest including any worms, and fiber as well. We've already got a handle on how we are going to make this work. I say 11#----the colon therapist says 18#......any side bets?
David Wright - 07 May 2008 03:41 GMT >> You have to subtract the weight of the water that was pumped in (and >> came out again) so that you can get an accurate measurement. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >make this work. I say 11#----the colon therapist says 18#......any >side bets? You're leaving yourself open for some really nasty jokes here, but I shall heroically refrain.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
David Wright - 05 May 2008 04:16 GMT >> I realize that a lame riposte like that is all you're capable of, but >> must you prove it? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >When you post nasty comments, you will get nasty comments back---- >because you apparently like to play in the mud ----slinging some back at you -- you do not like. Being disrespectful to individuals
>who do not share your biased narrow minded opinions would appear your >game-----I'm thinking of inventing a BORED game and naming it after >you. Gee, it's a good thing you're above "being disrespectful to individuals who do not share your biased narrow minded opinions" or I'd think you were doing it yourself.
>I have yet to understand why you post here when it is apparent you >have no personal experience in anything but attacking individuals >that have made the choice to experience different forms of >alternative treatments, It's a pity your ignorance has not allowed you to note that I've tried quite a variety of alternative treatments, including homeopathy and acupuncture.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Citizen Jimserac - 02 May 2008 13:38 GMT > In article <787001c4-fb2e-4a2f-a1a6-87f2020af...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > And you're expelling them so completely that you still feel compelled > to reply to their every posting... As they do to mine... EXACTLY!
Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 02 May 2008 15:35 GMT >> In article <787001c4-fb2e-4a2f-a1a6-87f2020af...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Citizen Jimserac Well Jimmy, I never said that I was going to ignore you. You did say on several occasions that you were going to ignore me. Which you then didn't do. Not unexpected from an anti-vac liar.
David Wright - 03 May 2008 04:06 GMT >> In article <787001c4-fb2e-4a2f-a1a6-87f2020af...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >As they do to mine... EXACTLY! Big difference: they're not trying to "expell" you. Or tell everyone not to reply to you.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." -- John Dolan
Citizen Jimserac - 03 May 2008 15:56 GMT > In article <e997fdab-f5d5-479a-bd88-ac880f325...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > "There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers." > -- John Dolan But I AM telling people there is NO reason to dignify the unreasoned unsupported condemnations of the skeptic quackers by responding to them as I have done for MONTHS. Does a symbolic expulsion bother you?
Wasting my time, providing links, pointing out positive research published in peer reviewed journals done by qualified researchers - it means nothing to them.
Go. Go talk with them. Go talk with the one who thinks because he gets an "effect" sticking a needle anywhere in his body, that that somehow "refutes" all of Acupuncture and disproves the existence of points and meridians.
Go waste time with the one who discounts ALL research in ALL Homeopathic journals, without reading any of it and then proceeds to discount Homeopathy.
Go exchange some ideas with the "chemist" who ends every insulting post with some idiotic quote while attempting to apply statistics, of all the damn things, to Human life.
You go and do it because I'm done with them unless I see some GENUINE intelligence, links and reasoning in their postings which they are fully capable of doing.
You do have one thing right, your quote on Republicans.
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 03 May 2008 20:05 GMT > > In article <e997fdab-f5d5-479a-bd88-ac880f325...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > > CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > quackers by responding to them as I have done for MONTHS. > Does a symbolic expulsion bother you? Not at all. However, it should bother you, as you are admitting that you want to engage in bullying tactics topromte silencing of others.
> Wasting my time, providing links, pointing out positive research > published in peer reviewed journals done by qualified researchers - it > means nothing to them. That is exactly what alties and homeopathic supporters do.
> Go. Go talk with them. Go talk with the one who thinks because he > gets an "effect" sticking a needle anywhere in his body, that that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > You do have one thing right, your quote on Republicans. Complaining about altie tactics.
Jan Drew - 04 May 2008 00:23 GMT "Mark Probert"
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-September 7, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t 09-07...@lambercartel.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 10, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-10...@lymbercartel.com>
From: M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 30, 2004 (M.a.r.k_P.r.o.b.e.r.t_04-30...@limbercartel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy, misc.handicap From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 11, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t 06-11...@lombercartel.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:11:24 GMT
Mark Probert - 03 May 2008 20:03 GMT > In article <e997fdab-f5d5-479a-bd88-ac880f325...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Big difference: they're not trying to "expell" you. Or tell everyone > not to reply to you. Jimmy should take a course in bullying. What he proposed is nothing more than what some bullies d, i.e. forbid others from talking to the bully's target.
Jan Drew - 04 May 2008 00:49 GMT "Mark Probert"
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-September 7, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t 09-07...@lambercartel.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 10, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-10...@lymbercartel.com>
From: M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 30, 2004 (M.a.r.k_P.r.o.b.e.r.t_04-30...@limbercartel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy, misc.handicap From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 11, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t 06-11...@lombercartel.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:11:24 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant From: aloysio...@aol.com (AloysiousX) Date: 05 Nov 2003 22:06:27 GMT Local: Wed, Nov 5 2003 6:06 pm Subject: Huh? For Sistah Ilena
Dear Sistah Ilena,
I don't know why you keep talking about me when you won't talk to me. I have tried to be nice and polite but that doesn't seem to work. It just seems to me that if you would talk to me, all of your questions and confustion would be answered. I am not Mark Probert. I am not the author of that analysis of your appeals court case. Mark Probert is not the author of that analysis of your appeals court case.
I don't remember if I asked you to compare Probert's writings with the style of the Translation, but I think you should. The styles are very different.
Besides, except for the conclusion of the author, it really just sticks to quotes from the decision and an interpretation of those quotes. If you have a problem with it, then I suggest that you take up Brother Langer's challenge and respond to the analysis, point by point by point.
I came here seeking advice and information, not looking for a fight. Why? Because I've got friends and family members with breast illness and possible implant issues, and I'd like to know more and be able to help them.
I said it before, I'm sort of close by you. Or at least where Humantics is or was. I'm in Central California, a little town called Marina, right on the coast. Yes, I know its not real nearby, but it is in the same state as San Diego.
What else would you like to know? Jus talk to me, my sistah.
As-salaam Aleikum!
AloysiousX
Subj: Is There Some Reason... Date: 2/12/2004 2:18:07 PM Pacific Standard Time From: AloysiousX To: JDrew63929
Is there some reason why you won't let me ask you a few questions, Jan? I'm really curious about your involvement with Ilena Rosenthal.
But I guess my most basic question is whether or not you are in California (like I am), or over in Indiana, like your profile says.
I had thought you were out west, but I guess not.
As Salaam Aleikum!
Aloysious
Mark Probert - 02 May 2008 13:40 GMT > In article <787001c4-fb2e-4a2f-a1a6-87f2020af...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Pathetic and a waste of bandwidth. and protoplasm.
Mark Probert - 02 May 2008 13:40 GMT > > In article <b8efad65-472f-489a-951a-c99bd9866...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > > CitizenJimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac IOW, you have decided to voluntarily develop rectocrania.
Mark Probert - 02 May 2008 13:38 GMT > In article <b8efad65-472f-489a-951a-c99bd9866...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > seem to be less than a paragon of rationality yourself, I don't think > you're likely to be given that power. Reminds me of the 1930's.
CJ may be planning a Krystalnacht.
Peter Moran - 02 May 2008 07:48 GMT > The first step in the expulsion of the > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > traditional points!) showing effects > on aplastic anemia, the endocrine system, Hey, steady on there! I allow that acupuncture and sham acupunture can seem to relieve symptoms (largely via placebo responses) but I have not seen a scrap of good evidence that acupuncture has any effect on any important bodily function or disease process. Nor do most acupuncturists make such claims. Nor does TCM theory, based as it is on prescientific superstitions, even acknowledge the existence of such diseases or body systems.
The differences between sham acupuncture and real acupuncture in some trials can be easily explained by difficulties in blinding, or more painful sites being more likely to have a distracting effect from symptoms.
PM.
> amelioration or elimination of migraines, > comlete cure for Bell's palsy and [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 02 May 2008 14:44 GMT > Hey, steady on there! I allow that acupuncture and sham acupunture can > seem to relieve symptoms (largely via placebo responses) but I have not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > PM. Ah, but you offer actual explicit reasoning for your positions which, though I disagree, makes it at least possible to have some sort of rational discussion. Thank goodness.
You believe ALL Acupuncture tests are flawed by being improperly blinded? ALL tests done by ALL the researchers? OK, fine. (side thought, well, that's a similar argument to what I've heard about Homeopathy testing, hmmm).
How about the MRI's, electrical changes at the points, thermographic imaging at the points - all very scientific, modern and done with modern instruments. Are ALL of those experiments flawed too?
> but I have not > seen a scrap of good evidence that acupuncture has any effect on any > important bodily function or disease process. How about they start doing REAL tests instead of ASKING people if they feel better after the Acupuncture. That's too subjective for my taste. I'd really like, in that German study, for them to do MRI's on ALL the subjects and then see if there was a difference between the sham Acupuncture and the real McCoy!
And likewise, I fully understand you are uncomfortable with the theories of the Chinese themselves from hundreds of years ago (or thousands!), obviously a pre scientifc period.
I am uncomfortable with "standard" medicine which persists in the archaic theory that cutting open a patient and removing an organ will cure them of cancer!
Thanks Citizen Jimserac
Martin - 02 May 2008 15:38 GMT >> Hey, steady on there! I allow that acupuncture and sham acupunture can >> seem to relieve symptoms (largely via placebo responses) but I have not [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >and then see if there was a difference between >the sham Acupuncture and the real McCoy! Totally pointless if observer bias is not ruled out by proper blinding. Have you read the German study and checked if there was proper blinding there?
>And likewise, I fully understand you are uncomfortable with >the theories of the Chinese themselves from hundreds of years [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >persists in the archaic theory that cutting open a patient >and removing an organ will cure them of cancer! What? Pray tell, which doctor where says that if you have cancer, an organ *must* be removed?
>Thanks >Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 03 May 2008 21:21 GMT > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > PM. There is SO MUCH research pointing to the reality of the traditional meridians that it is hard to MISS.
Here, for example among the easily found examples from the 1990's is research involving the use of radioactive traces which indicate a neurochemical mechanism for the propagation of the Acupuncture sensation. Is it CONCLUSIVE? Of course not, just research but let's NOT pretend it does not exist, eh?
http://acupunctureinmedicine.org.uk/volindex.php?vol=11&issue=1#Exp
Nuclear Medicine Investigation of Transmission of Acupuncture Information Darras JC, Albarède P, de Vernejoul P Page 22 [PDF - 2540KB] (Free access)
Citizen Jimserac
Peter Bowditch - 03 May 2008 22:13 GMT >There is SO MUCH research pointing to the reality >of the traditional meridians that it is hard to MISS. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Citizen Jimserac I like the part where they say "The pathways rather seem to correspond, in the limbs, with preferential transmission within connective tissue in association with a vascular-nervous bundle".
Much like injecting anything, really. The same thing probably happened with the flu shot I had yesterday. And the dye moves at 6cm per minute. Surely the magic meridians transfer information faster than that (which is a little over 10 feet per hour for the non-metricated).
And the follow-up research is ... ?
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 22:20 GMT > Much like injecting anything, really. The same thing probably happened > with the flu shot I had yesterday. And the dye moves at 6cm per > minute. Surely the magic meridians transfer information faster than > that (which is a little over 10 feet per hour for the non-metricated). Sheesh -- 6 cm/minute would make for a LOOOONG wait if the pin goes in somewhere below the knee. (Rapid arithmetic) Like I really want to wait half an hour for results?
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
PeterB - 04 May 2008 01:22 GMT > The first step in the expulsion of the > skeptics is stop allowing them to pretend [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Well said, CJ, including your comments below on the "pretend logic" they use for debating. I have to agree with DrCee though about the problems with standard "allopathic" approaches, whereas your suggestion is already taking hold in certain venues that I have visited. If we ultimately achieve the kind of creative destruction sought at FDA, drugs will *not* be approved as they are today, and far fewer will make it to market at all. That will be a start...
Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 12:42 GMT . If we ultimately achieve the kind of creative destruction
> sought at FDA, drugs will *not* be approved as they are today, and far > fewer will make it to market at all. That will be a start... I look forward to the significant reforms that will be needed to make that happen and PREVENT the deaths and injuries from drugs that "somehow" are making it through the approval process.
Citizen Jimserac
Richard Schultz - 04 May 2008 13:28 GMT : I look forward to the significant reforms : that will be needed to make that happen and PREVENT the deaths and : injuries from drugs that "somehow" are making it through the approval : process. And what about the adverse effects from dietary supplements that (thanks to a well-placed bribe, excuse me, campaign contribution) aren't subject to FDA approval at all?
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
Rod - 04 May 2008 14:20 GMT > In article > <461fbbcb-3f40-41ce-b399-a4bd4c5fa61a@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > to a well-placed bribe, excuse me, campaign contribution) aren't subject > to FDA approval at all? I think you are biased with that view. There is much evidence that FDA approved Drugs are an evil for many a use. The reason is simple: Most of the drugs do not cure and were never designed to cure.
Cheers, Rod.
> ----- > Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il > Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel > Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University > ----- > "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 15:39 GMT > > In article > > <461fbbcb-3f40-41ce-b399-a4bd4c5fa...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > ----- > > "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing." I believe you are wasting your time responding to that particular respondent. In my opinion, he is more interested in innuendo than in discussions. He does come up with some nice literary quotes at the end of his posts sometimes. THOSE have somewhat more merit than the postings themselves.
Citizen Jimserac
Richard Schultz - 04 May 2008 16:02 GMT :> > And what about the adverse effects from dietary supplements that (thanks :> > to a well-placed bribe, excuse me, campaign contribution) aren't subject :> > to FDA approval at all?
: I believe you are wasting your time responding to that : particular respondent. In my opinion, he is more interested in : innuendo than in discussions. I have previously discussed this matter. It is not innuendo -- Orrin Hatch received a large (ca. $140,000 IIRC) "campaign contribution" from the supplement industry. It's hard to understand why they would be so worried about his chances of reelection, but it's a lot easier to understand his later sponsorship of the legislation that removed from the FDA the power to regulate dietary supplements.
----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
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