Medical Forum / General / Alternative / May 2008
Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurirng
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Butterflies1111@gmail.com - 01 May 2008 07:16 GMT Analysis: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurring by Adam Miller
(NaturalNews) In an article included in the latest edition of Cancer Monthly's free newsletter CancerWire, researchers analyzed statistics obtained through the National Cancer Institute (NCI) in order to gain a clearer perspective on what type of cancer research is being undertaken in the country.
Cancer Monthly is an organization dedicated to providing unbiased evaluation of conventional and alternative cancer treatments. It was founded by volunteers whose lives have been affected by the disease and is currently managed by Michael Horwin, MA, JD.
The authors found that of the 7,080 clinical trials for cancer currently ongoing, over 3,000 are focused on chemotherapy -- a treatment that already has over 50 years of research to its credit with relatively little practical return on investment. Of the remaining trials, over 2,000 were focused on more advanced biological treatments such as anti-angiogenesis drugs, which work to cut off the blood supply to tumors.
In all, only 123 of the trials deal with any type of alternative or complementary treatment. "These 123 represent only 1.7% of the total and included trials of various foods, herbs and modalities such as: soy, ginger, Valerian, Curcumin, acupuncture, Reiki, meditation, garlic, Green tea, and Tai Chi," the authors state. An optimist might find comfort in the fact that the number at least reached the triple digits, but closer analysis reveals an even less tolerable situation.
"The overwhelming majority of these trials examined questions that did not focus on whether these approaches alone improved survivability from cancer," the authors report. What this means is that the treatments were actually being evaluated not as treatments, but as adjunctive therapies to improve the rate and intensity of symptoms among those patients already undergoing conventional therapy.
It turns out that 24 of these 123 trials actually focused on a combination of natural compounds and the drug sodium phenylbutyrate, and are only classified as alternative-complementary because the treatment is not currently taught in medical school or widely used. Ninety-six others fell into the above category, evaluating the ability of natural treatments to ease the devastating side effects brought about by chemotherapy and other conventional treatments. For those who haven't done the math yet, you might want to sit down for this.
Of the 7,080 clinical trials for cancer currently underway in the U.S., only three (3) focus on natural alternative methods of treating the disease. That is less than 1/1000th the number of chemotherapy trials alone and translates to a measly 0.04% of total trials. Meanwhile, countries like Japan are surging into the future with cutting-edge treatments based on derivatives of medicinal mushrooms and other natural substances.
Alternative treatments are commonly described by purveyors of orthodox medicine as those which have not yet been evaluated and proven effective through vigorous scientific evaluation. Looking at the actual statistics, though, it may be more accurate to describe alternative treatments as those which orthodox medicine refuses to research. In light of this evidence the question seems to ask itself; are we really working toward a cure for cancer?
About the author Adam Miller is a student of life who has dedicated literally thousands of hours of personal research on top of formal institutional training in Dietetics to learn the secrets of achieving vibrant health and extended lifespan. His passion and dedication is in bringing the best ideas for self-empowerment through nutrition and nutraceuticals as well as alternative therapies, technology, and information to the public through various means.
Citizen Jimserac - 01 May 2008 13:41 GMT On May 1, 2:16 am, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Analysis: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurring > by Adam Miller ...
>" The authors found that of the 7,080 clinical trials for cancer > currently ongoing, over 3,000 are focused on chemotherapy -- a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > treatments such as anti-angiogenesis drugs, which work to cut off the > blood supply to tumors." ...
And the pioneer anti-angiogenesis drug researcher, who died not long ago, was DENIED funding for his research. He got funding, eventually by personally appealing to Monsanto which granted him research money based on his idea which was ridiculed at the time by standard medicine.
> "Alternative treatments are commonly described by purveyors of orthodox > medicine as those which have not yet been evaluated and proven [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > research. In light of this evidence the question seems to ask itself; > are we really working toward a cure for cancer" See "The Secret History of the War on Cancer" by Devra for more information about this.
In China and elsewhere, Chinese herbs are being researched for anti-cancer effects. They are already used to ameliorate post chemotherapy deleterious effects.
Citizen Jimserac
drceephd@insightbb.com - 01 May 2008 16:17 GMT On May 1, 2:16 am, Butterflies1...@gmail.com wrote:
> Analysis: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurring > by Adam Miller You will also find that at least two Japanese medical centers are studying the Gerson protocol for cancer treatment. To date they have data on over 600 cancer patients.
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
D. C. Sessions - 17 May 2008 22:16 GMT > You will also find that at least two Japanese medical centers are > studying the Gerson protocol for cancer treatment. To date they have > data on over 600 cancer patients. And their results are .... ?
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Peter Moran - 02 May 2008 08:31 GMT > Analysis: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurring > by Adam Miller for this.
> Of the 7,080 clinical trials for cancer currently underway in the > U.S., only three (3) focus on natural alternative methods of treating [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cutting-edge treatments based on derivatives of medicinal mushrooms > and other natural substances. Oh yeah?
> Alternative treatments are commonly described by purveyors of orthodox > medicine as those which have not yet been evaluated and proven [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > research. In light of this evidence the question seems to ask itself; > are we really working toward a cure for cancer? The following alternative methods have been subected to formal testing either via clinical trials or examination of samplings of their cases.
Laetrile Livingston-Wheeler Megadose Vitamin C Orhomolecular treatment as per Hoffer/Pauling Spiegel's mind-body approach Hydrazine Sulfate Mistletoe Gerson Hoxsey Revici The Holt microwave therapy Shark Cartilage
Attempts were made to perform more formal trials of Burton's Immunoaugmentative therapy and Burzinski's antineoplastins but fell through becasue fo the uncooperativeness of these two proponents.
In addition, studies that have been able to compare the prognosis of patients who choose to use alternaitve methods with that of patients who don't have failed to show improved survival. Below is one.
The problem is that it is difficult to find even single pateints who have been cured of established cancer by alternative methods alone, even though suitable cases are being treated by the thousands. This is why there is little enthusiasm for spending research resources on them. Produce a few obviously cured patients and that may change.
Survival and quality of life among patients receiving unproven as compared with conventional cancer therapy
BR Cassileth, EJ Lusk, D Guerry, AD Blake, WP Walsh, L Kascius, and DJ Schultz
Abstract
BACKGROUND. Cancer treatments without proved efficacy have achieved new levels of popularity, particularly among well-educated patients. The value of these therapies is vigorously debated. METHODS. We compared the length of survival and quality of life in patients who received treatment at a prominent unorthodox cancer clinic in addition to conventional treatment and in matched control patients from an academic cancer center who received only conventional treatment. All the patients had documented extensive malignant disease associated with a predicted median survival time of less than one year. The study sample consisted of 78 pairs of patients matched according to sex, race, age, diagnosis, and time from the diagnosis of metastatic or recurrent disease, who were enrolled over a period of 3 1/2 years. Periodic follow-up (approximately every two months) continued until death. RESULTS. There was no difference between the two patient groups in length of survival. Median survival for both groups was 15 months (P = 0.22; relative risk, 1.23; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.88 to 1.72). Quality-of-life scores were consistently better among conventionally treated patients from enrollment on. CONCLUSIONS. For this sample of patients with extensive disease and for this particular unorthodox treatment regimen, conventional and unorthodox treatments produced similar results.
PM www.cancerwatcher.con
> About the author > Adam Miller is a student of life who has dedicated literally thousands [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > well as alternative therapies, technology, and information to the > public through various means. D. C. Sessions - 02 May 2008 12:40 GMT > The following alternative methods have been subected to formal testing > either via clinical trials or examination of samplings of their cases. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The Holt microwave therapy > Shark Cartilage I notice that you leave out the Gonzalez (Kelly) trial at Columbia. Granted the results have vanished into a black hole, but for purposes of the present "no research occurirng (sic)" thread I would expect it to be relevant.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
drceephd@insightbb.com - 02 May 2008 18:20 GMT > Survival and quality of life among patients receiving unproven as compared > with conventional cancer therapy [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > PMwww.cancerwatcher.con PM, you do realize that you just proven that current, "cutting edge" cancer treatments are bogus and worthless.
When comparing the two, why would anyone choose chemo and "orthodox" treatments knowing that they would live just as long and be far less sick not to mention much wealthier if they ignored the oncologists and their obvious quackery?
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 01:45 GMT >> Survival and quality of life among patients receiving unproven as compared >> with conventional cancer therapy [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > sick not to mention much wealthier if they ignored the oncologists and > their obvious quackery? How do you get that out of the quoted passage? Conventional therapy wasn't a variable in the comparison.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Martin - 03 May 2008 08:42 GMT >> Survival and quality of life among patients receiving unproven as compared >> with conventional cancer therapy [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >sick not to mention much wealthier if they ignored the oncologists and >their obvious quackery? Not-a-DrCee: learn how to read. And I quote: "patients who received treatment at a prominent unorthodox cancer clinic *in addition* to conventional treatment" See that , "in addition"? They got that integrative treatment that alt-med likes so much, and it didn't make an iota of difference.
>DrCee >You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons. D. C. Sessions - 03 May 2008 13:21 GMT > Not-a-DrCee: learn how to read. > And I quote: "patients who received treatment at a prominent > unorthodox cancer clinic *in addition* to conventional treatment" > See that , "in addition"? They got that integrative treatment that > alt-med likes so much, and it didn't make an iota of difference. All that shows, of course, is that use of conventional treatment prevents "alternative" methods from working.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
news - 03 May 2008 14:46 GMT >> Not-a-DrCee: learn how to read. >> And I quote: "patients who received treatment at a prominent [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All that shows, of course, is that use of conventional treatment > prevents "alternative" methods from working. Don't quit your day job.
Jan Drew - 02 May 2008 21:44 GMT >> Analysis: Virtually Zero Alternative Cancer Research Occurring >> by Adam Miller [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Laetrile Which works.
> Livingston-Wheeler > Megadose Vitamin C Which works.
> Orhomolecular treatment as per Hoffer/Pauling > Spiegel's mind-body approach > Hydrazine Sulfate > Mistletoe > Gerson Works
> Hoxsey Works.
> Revici > The Holt microwave therapy [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Immunoaugmentative therapy and Burzinski's antineoplastins but fell > through becasue fo the uncooperativeness of these two proponents. Liar.
> In addition, studies that have been able to compare the prognosis of > patients who choose to use alternaitve methods with that of patients who > don't have failed to show improved survival. Repeated lie.
Below is one.
> The problem is that it is difficult to find even single pateints who have > been cured of established cancer by alternative methods alone, even though > suitable cases are being treated by the thousands. This is why there is > little enthusiasm for spending research resources on them. Produce a few > obviously cured patients and that may change. See above methods that work.
> Survival and quality of life among patients receiving unproven as compared > with conventional cancer therapy > > BR Cassileth, EJ Lusk, D Guerry, AD Blake, WP Walsh, L Kascius, and DJ > Schultz Organized medicine.
> Abstract > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > PM > www.cancerQUACKER.com
>> About the author >> Adam Miller is a student of life who has dedicated literally thousands [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> well as alternative therapies, technology, and information to the >> public through various means. Mark Probert - 02 May 2008 22:37 GMT > Attempts were made to perform more formal trials of Burton's > Immunoaugmentative therapy and Burzinski's antineoplastins but fell through > becasue fo the uncooperativeness of these two proponents. Precisely. If they cooperated, and the findings were that theytreatment was useless, they would have to find another scam.
All they have to do is have their cured patients line up with their medical records. Where are those patients?
Citizen Jimserac - 03 May 2008 01:24 GMT In America there are "cancer" centers appearing in many major cities, emphasizing "integrative" care methods they appear to be quite popular.
Acupuncture, Homeopathy and Naturopathy are among the alternative systems offered.
From the web site of Cancer Treatment Centers of America: http://www.cancercenter.com/complementary-alternative-medicine/naturopathic-medi cine.cfm
"Chinese Medicine:
Chinese medicine is a healing philosophy that is complementary to naturopathic medicine. Meridian theory offers an important understanding of the unity of the body and mind and adds to the Western understanding of physiology. CTCA offers acupuncture, a method of treatment aimed to unify and harmonize the imbalances present in disease conditions, which in turn stimulates the immune system and the healing response.
Homeopathy:
Homeopathic medicine is based on the principle of "like cures like." Clinical observation indicates that it works on a subtle, yet powerful, energetic level, gently acting to strengthen the body's immune response and triggering the healing process. Homeopaths believe that the more dilute the remedy (small doses), the greater its potency. Our naturopathic practitioners use homeopathic remedies (i.e., plant extracts and minerals) to stimulate healing and complement your traditional cancer treatment options. "
Your comments on this, if any?
Citizen Jimserac
Hawki - 03 May 2008 18:20 GMT > In America there are "cancer" centers > appearing in many major cities, emphasizing > "integrative" care methods they > appear to be quite popular. perhaps you need to re read their site
first listed was "surgery"...as state of the art in cancer treatment...also said surgery alone in many cases is all that is needed
surely the "rest" of what they offer..accupuncture..etc...is to make the patient feel good...after the surgery etc has removed the cancer
> Acupuncture, Homeopathy and Naturopathy > are among the alternative systems offered. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac drceephd@insightbb.com - 03 May 2008 18:31 GMT You need to go over to Mercola.com and watch the short video of Eustace Mullins who published "Murder by Injection" in 1988. You might just change your opinion of modern medicine and their treatments for cancer.
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
Martin - 03 May 2008 22:36 GMT >You need to go over to Mercola.com and watch the short video of >Eustace Mullins who published "Murder by Injection" in 1988. You [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >DrCee >You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons. Or you might realize how insane some people are.
Jan Drew - 04 May 2008 00:18 GMT Jan Drew - 04 May 2008 00:16 GMT >> In America there are "cancer" centers >> appearing in many major cities, emphasizing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > surely the "rest" of what they offer..accupuncture..etc...is to make the > patient feel good...after the surgery etc has removed the cancer Naturopathic medicine, also called "naturopathy," is a distinct system of primary health care. It is an art, a science, a philosophy. It is a practice of diagnosis, treatment and prevention of illness. A central goal of naturopathic medicine is to use the healing power of nature to maintain and restore health. In addition, naturopathic medicine focuses on prevention. This is accomplished through education and promotion of lifestyle habits that create good health.
>> Acupuncture, Homeopathy and Naturopathy >> are among the alternative systems offered. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> >> Citizen Jimserac Hawki - 04 May 2008 02:08 GMT we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said
my point...surgery is still the primary treatment at these Cancer Centers...
if you could read...you would realize that
>>> In America there are "cancer" centers >>> appearing in many major cities, emphasizing [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >>> >>> Citizen Jimserac Jan Drew - 04 May 2008 02:26 GMT Naturopathic medicine, also called "naturopathy," is a distinct system of primary health care. It is an art, a science, a philosophy. It is a practice of diagnosis, treatment and prevention of illness. A central goal of naturopathic medicine is to use the healing power of nature to maintain and restore health. In addition, naturopathic medicine focuses on prevention. This is accomplished through education and promotion of lifestyle habits that create good health.
Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 12:20 GMT > we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >> surely the "rest" of what they offer..accupuncture..etc...is to make the > >> patient feel good...after the surgery etc has removed the cancer I agree with your comment about what is the primary treatment at these centers.
I DISAGREE with your comment that things such as Acupuncture and Homeopathy are there to make the patient feel good after the surgery has removed the cancer.
The essence of the INTEGRATIVE approach is the utilization of ALL beneficial therapies, coordinated, in the treatment and restoration of health regarding the WHOLE patient rather than the diminution of the patient into some broken machine in which the removal of a diseased part is considered sufficient treatment, a view held by "standard" medicine.
I disagree with the implication that surgery is sufficient to remove the cancer. Frequent checks for recurrence most be made in those patients that have had surgery, and in even the best result cases, the cancer can and does return later. Surgery is a stopgap which treats the principle symptoms NOT the root cause.
Neither is chemotherapy, a euphemism for POISONING a sufficient treatment though its use is widespread and its results fair. The destruction of the patient's immune system to get rid of one disease leaves them open to death from even the common cold - NOT a wise idea.
Interestingly, of people who have had chemotherapy and survived the cancer, many will REFUSE IT A SECOND TIME and chose death rather than repeat the experience, a telling indictment of it.
The future will view chemotherapy as something as primitive to our century as bloodletting was to earlier centuries.
Citizen Jimserac
Rod - 04 May 2008 14:38 GMT >> we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said >> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Yes I would agree that the current treatments are for the most a failure especially in chemo therapy and radiology treatments. From what I can understand these treatments are used as a primary treatment which have a short term impact on some cancers but fail to control the disease in most cases. Even the Doctors dispensing these treatments admit this consequence. What really needs to be disclosed to all patients is the reality of the disease progression despite surgery, chemo and radiation. That's the hard part for any Oncologist to admit the truth to someone who wants desperately to live. Are there answers to this dilemma, well I think there are but certainly not in the continuation of immune suppressant chemo which if it cannot harness the cancers growth may in fact spur the spreading of the cancer. Taking away the bodies natural defences may well account for the spread of the cancer which is a well known fact for cancer patients and their treatments. Sincerely, Rod.
Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 15:05 GMT > >> we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > which is a well known fact for cancer patients and their treatments. > Sincerely, Rod. Exactly.
Let it be admitted - we ALL want the same goal, a cure.
Citizen Jimserac
Rod - 04 May 2008 15:30 GMT >> >> we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said >> [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Yes lets see the sceptics admit that the present system is a failure due to lack of science.
Rod
Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 15:40 GMT > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > Rod Exactly.
Citizen Jimserac
D. C. Sessions - 04 May 2008 16:06 GMT > Yes lets see the sceptics admit that the present system is a failure due to > lack of science. No lack of science -- but science is a process for discovery, not a book with all the answers.
As for the present treatments for cancer being a failure, I think you have a somewhat distorted picture of the situation. There certainly are cancers which have very low survival rates regardless of treatment. That doesn't change the fact that there are many others which are highly treatable and for which the survival rate has dramatically improved in recent decades.
You can, of course, define "failure" as anything short of perfection (which is what CJ, upthread, has done previously). By that definition, I will freely grant that everything in medicine is a "failure." As for me, I'll take "improvement" since "perfection" isn't on the menu.
Bearing in mind that single cases don't prove much of anything, I present for those who *are* impressed by single cases that of Paul Allen.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Martin - 04 May 2008 16:29 GMT - snippety snip -
>Exactly. > >Let it be admitted - we ALL want the same goal, a cure. But you're looking to magic to provide it.
>Citizen Jimserac Hawki - 04 May 2008 18:28 GMT >> we didn't need you to repeat..no copy..what the original poster said >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Homeopathy are there to make the patient feel good after the surgery > has removed the cancer. and I disagree..perhaps my wording was confusing...accupuncture..and homeopathy have never been proven to TREAT anything.....certainly not cancer that has already metastastized
> The essence of the INTEGRATIVE approach is the utilization of ALL > beneficial therapies, coordinated, in the treatment and restoration of > health regarding the WHOLE patient rather than the diminution of the > patient into some broken machine in which the removal of a diseased > part is considered sufficient treatment, a view held by "standard" > medicine. this business of the "whole" patient etc is such gobbleygook...if one has a malignancy...the only successful approach is to "treat" it ..and its spread if already detected
> I disagree with the implication that surgery is sufficient to remove > the cancer. Frequent checks for recurrence most be made in those > patients that have had surgery, and in even the best result cases, > the cancer can and does return later. Surgery is a stopgap which > treats the principle symptoms NOT the root cause. I never said that surgery alone means "no more cancer thus breathe easier"..
my own spouse had a malignant colon polyp detected two years ago on a routine colonoscopy...numerous scans etc found NO metastatic disease PRIOR to his surgery to remove his sigmoid colon..he received nor needed ANY further treatment..in the past two years he has had follow up colos every 6 months...and scans yearly..yes...there is a chance for recurrence..personally I do not like nor use the word "cure" when referring to malignancy...one must always be on the lookout
> Neither is chemotherapy, a euphemism for POISONING > a sufficient treatment though its use is widespread and its results [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 19:21 GMT > and I disagree..perhaps my wording was confusing...accupuncture..and > homeopathy have never been proven to TREAT anything.....certainly not cancer > that has already metastastized No your wording is fine but your assertion is wrong -> BOTH Acupuncture AND Homeopathy have been proven to treat SOME things, the research is everywhere, but certainly not cancer, agreed. Acupuncture is recognized as a valid and useful treatment for a variety of ailments by the World Health Organization.
> > The essence of the INTEGRATIVE approach is the utilization of ALL > > beneficial therapies, coordinated, in the treatment and restoration of > > health regarding the WHOLE patient rather than the diminution of the > > patient into some broken machine in which the removal of a diseased > > part is considered sufficient treatment, a view held by "standard" > > medicine.
> this business of the "whole" patient etc is >such gobbleygook...if one has a malignancy >...the only successful approach is to "treat" >it ..and its spread >if already detected I disagree completely, the daily life, diet, stress levels, environment, mental state and spiritual state of the patient is most certainly NOT gobbledegook and integrative medicine takes ALL those things into consideration. Treating the patient as a diseased machine carries reductionism to an absurdity and dehumanizes both doctor and patient.
> > I disagree with the implication that surgery is sufficient to remove > > the cancer. Frequent checks for recurrence most be made in those [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I never said that surgery alone means "no more cancer thus breathe easier".. OK, relax, this is NOT the Cambridge debating society, just expression of opinions.
> my own spouse had a malignant colon polyp detected two years ago on a > routine colonoscopy...numerous scans etc found NO metastatic disease >PRIOR [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > recurrence..personally I do not like nor use the word "cure" when >referring > to malignancy...one must always be on the lookout Ah but I DO use the word CURE, the word standard medicine is afraid of precisely because their methodology treats symptomatic effects rather than root causes.
Thanks Citizen Jimserac
Hawki - 04 May 2008 21:05 GMT >> and I disagree..perhaps my wording was confusing...accupuncture..and >> homeopathy have never been proven to TREAT anything.....certainly not [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > is afraid of precisely because their methodology treats > symptomatic effects rather than root causes. please let me know when any alternative practices have "cured" metastatic cancer"..
certainly many can be prevented....but many cannot be...
> Thanks > Citizen Jimserac Citizen Jimserac - 04 May 2008 22:21 GMT > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Thanks > > CitizenJimserac There is research in several alternative systems of medicine as treatments for cancer. Research in China and elsewhere utilizing traditional Chinese herbs looks promising but is not there yet. Traditional Chinese medicine herbs are used to ameliorate post chemotherapy and post cancer surgery side effects but not the cancer itself.
Proceed with caution, this area is fraught with danger from vested special interests on all sides. Information and disinformation abound.
For a good but perhaps overly skeptical outlook, look up the postings of Peter Moran in this newsgroup - he is a retired cancer surgeon, has good expertise, and keeps track of such things.
Citizen Jimserac
Hawki - 05 May 2008 02:27 GMT >> "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac sorry again you misunderstood me....you stated "cure" is OK to use since altie med removes the root cause...
yet the above two paragraphs about Chinese herbs and roots being used for treatment of cancer chemo side effects ...etc....I never doubted that there are many such ways to relieve these side effects..
but "cure" has not entered the altie world yet...treating the nausea etc also does not remove the "root cause" of cancer
there is no doubt that our modern world is filled with carcinogenic factors related to modern life...ie...air pollution from multiple vehicles...all the junk added to "fast foods"....
so of course "eating healthy...exercising,,not smoking etc etc" can help one's odds....
but one still has a gene pool from two parents to contend with...
Citizen Jimserac - 05 May 2008 13:14 GMT > "CitizenJimserac" <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] > > but one still has a gene pool from two parents to contend with... Yes exactly. Good points.
Citizen Jimserac
drceephd@insightbb.com - 05 May 2008 22:16 GMT > Yes exactly. Good points. > > Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I have to disagee, the points made are uninformed and based upon indoctrination.
Cancer is the last stage of human degeneration, that is natural cancer and not induced cancer.
As such, the stage of cancer called fungation or cancer is natural and can be expected as a body defense mechanism to prolong life. Along the same lines, if the cancerous person corrects his nutritional and lifestyle errors in the correct manner, they can expect to return to health by healing, and certainly not via "cures" whether pharmaceutical or herbal.
The cutting out of tumors ( while occasionally beneficial ) and the insane poisoning of the victims is the bane of modern medicine.
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus, poisons, or the knife.
D. C. Sessions - 06 May 2008 04:09 GMT > Cancer is the last stage of human degeneration, that is natural cancer > and not induced cancer. Excellent! So you can identify the prior stages and propose a test which will predict the development of cancer. That has the potential to save millions of lives.
Please -- don't keep it a secret. It should be an easy experiment to run, thus proving the superiority of your beliefs to the world.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
drceephd@insightbb.com - 06 May 2008 17:35 GMT > In message <271bfcfb-60b7-4e18-bcc1-09eba9ebf...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > | sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | > +--- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---+ Easy enough.
Follow the research and protocol of A. Bechamp and Enderlein. A simple live blood cell analysis can tell the tale either prior to or during the condition we call cancer.
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus, poisons, lies or deceit.
D. C. Sessions - 07 May 2008 03:05 GMT >> In message <271bfcfb-60b7-4e18-bcc1-09eba9ebf...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > A simple live blood cell analysis can tell the tale either prior to or > during the condition we call cancer. Do, please, explain in more detail. You've stated that the cause of cancer is low pH, so you should be able (if indeed blood is the key tissue) to specify a serum pH that marks the threshold of cancer.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
D. C. Sessions - 18 May 2008 22:45 GMT >>> In message <271bfcfb-60b7-4e18-bcc1-09eba9ebf...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
>>> > Cancer is the last stage of human degeneration, that is natural cancer >>> > and not induced cancer. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cancer is low pH, so you should be able (if indeed blood is the > key tissue) to specify a serum pH that marks the threshold of cancer. Two weeks, no answer.
That's what happens when you try to discuss alternative medicine here.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
drceephd@insightbb.com - 18 May 2008 23:30 GMT > In message <4df7f5-2eg....@news.lumbercartel.com>, D. C. Sessions wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - If you wish to discuss the Japanese results, why not do a literature search and report back to us what they are publishing?
DrCee You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.
D. C. Sessions - 19 May 2008 01:05 GMT >> In message <4df7f5-2eg....@news.lumbercartel.com>, D. C. Sessions wrote: >> > In message <d4238bc8-8a3d-4c23-8556-4eaf60d9b...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote: >> >>> In message <271bfcfb-60b7-4e18-bcc1-09eba9ebf...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
>> >>> > Cancer is the last stage of human degeneration, that is natural cancer >> >>> > and not induced cancer. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > If you wish to discuss the Japanese results, why not do a literature > search and report back to us what they are publishing? I'm not asking what others thing, I'm asking what *you* think. You're a scientist, and you're posting on this board as such making authoritative declarations about the nature and causes of cancer. Since you've researched the subject so thoroughly, I'm quite interested in *your* findings. Especially since you are already familiar with the sources you cite, there's no point in my going to them and trying to guess what you see there.
I swear, normally you can't get people to *STOP* talking about their own beliefs. On MHA, you practically have to drag it out of them.
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against | | unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct | | before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson | +-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+
Citizen Jimserac - 06 May 2008 18:48 GMT On May 5, 5:16 pm, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
> On May 5, 8:14 am, CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I have to disagee, the points made are uninformed and based upon > indoctrination. No DrCee, the dependence of cancer on both genetic and environmental factors is well established. There is no indoctrination involved and Hawki is, I believe, correct in these assertions.
I do, however agree that despite surgery, radiation, chemotherapy or some combination therof being the only main options in standard medical treatment of cancer, any of these treatments, despite any "success" rate that they may claim, are deleterious to human health and therefore ultimately fail, and this despite short term effects or apparrent amelioration of the cancer.
Citizen Jimserac
> Cancer is the last stage of human degeneration, that is natural cancer > and not induced cancer. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > DrCee > You cannot secure nor restore health with pus, poisons, or the knife. D. C. Sessions - 07 May 2008 03:03 GMT > I do, however agree that despite surgery, radiation, chemotherapy > or some combination therof being the only main options > in standard medical treatment of cancer, any of these treatments, > despite any "success" rate that they may claim, are deleterious > to human health and therefore ultimately fail, and this despite > short term effects or apparrent amelioration of the cancer. Maybe you should explain that to someone who had childhood leukemia.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Citizen Jimserac - 07 May 2008 11:57 GMT > In message <ce76066d-ee33-46bf-ba77-9b3d5e286...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > | sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | > +--- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> ---+ Understood D.C., the success rate in general for that has improved dramatically from 30 or 40 years ago. I have NO DOUBT that chemotherapy kills cancer cells - what is at question is the damage done to the needed and useful cells and to the immune system of the patient.
There must be better ways than using poison to cure something and I reiterate my comment that the people of the future will view chemotherapy much as we view the bloodletting, ingesting Mercury and other primitive standard medical practices of the 1800's.
I reiterate my statement that many people who were lucky enough to survive chemotherapy will refuse it ... and accept DEATH rather than repeat it if needed a second time.
You can worship the chemotherapists, kiss their feet, kneel at their altar and I really don' give a crap if you are outraged, angered or whatever by criticisms. A system of medicine which relies on poison or cell destroying radiation as some of its principle means of "cures" MUST be called into question on the grounds of inadequacy, insufficiency and anti-life philosophies which are inimical to the health of human beings.
These criticisms in no way have implications regarding the causative effects in cancer - environmental, ELECTROMAGNETIC, genetic or whatever, but merely indict the accepted practice in treating already existent cancers.
It is my hope that you will read "The Secret History of the War on Cancer" by Devra, to learn more about the possible misdirection of cancer research!
Thanks Citizen Jimserac
D. C. Sessions - 07 May 2008 12:18 GMT >> In message <ce76066d-ee33-46bf-ba77-9b3d5e286...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > what is at question is the damage done to the needed and useful cells > and to the immune system of the patient. Collateral damage is moot if you don't live to grow up.
Paul Allen was dying in the early eighties but a successful round of chemo and today he's still enjoying being insanely wealthy. Would he have been better off to have never had cancer? Unquestionably. Would he have been better off if he'd had some treatment that we don't have yet? Sure.
Those weren't his choices.
> There must be better ways than using poison to cure something > and I reiterate my comment that the people of the future will view > chemotherapy much as we view the bloodletting, ingesting Mercury and > other primitive standard medical practices of the 1800's. It's not like anyone today is in love with our current treatments; they frankly suck. They just don't suck as badly as our other choices today.
Our big gripe with the practices of the 18th century (and early 19th) wasn't that they weren't as advanced as today, but that they weren't even as advanced as some of the records from the 1500s and, worst of all, they weren't bothering to even find out if they worked.
I prefer to think that we'll be recalled in the same light as the mechanical arts of the early 19th century: not as far along, but at least making a systematic effort at getting better.
> I reiterate my statement that many people who were lucky enough to > survive chemotherapy will refuse it ... and accept DEATH rather than > repeat it if needed a second time. I'm sure many will. Others won't. Ask Paul Allen if he'd go through what he did again.
> You can worship the chemotherapists, kiss their feet, kneel at their > altar and I really don' give a crap if you are outraged, angered or > whatever by criticisms. Straw man.
> A system of medicine which relies on poison > or cell destroying radiation as some of its principle means of "cures" > MUST be called into question on the grounds of inadequacy, > insufficiency and anti-life philosophies > which are inimical to the health of human beings. Again, it's not like anyone thinks our current methods are all that. They just give people a chance to live who otherwise wouldn't. This isn't academic, you know -- a cow-orker I've known for a long time recently had a rather nasty bout with tonsil cancer. I do *not* want to go through what he did, but if it gets me reasonable odds of spending time with my grandchildren I'll do it in a snap.
And repeat as needed.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Mark Probert - 07 May 2008 13:59 GMT > In message <6c679774-0461-4d29-9d69-1ee817ea2...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Citizen Jimserac wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > And repeat as needed. Good points. Paul Allen and Lance Armstrong...
Citizen Jimserac - 07 May 2008 14:28 GMT > In message <6c679774-0461-4d29-9d69-1ee817ea2...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > And repeat as needed. Well stated D.C., your position is well stated.
With regard to the Paul Allen example, this is a very bad example precisely because he is very wealthy and could afford the very best - most of us are not and cannot!
> Again, it's not like anyone thinks our current methods are all that. > They just give people a chance to live who otherwise wouldn't. > This isn't academic, you know -- a cow-orker I've known for a long > time recently had a rather nasty bout with tonsil cancer. I'm sure you meant co-worker because working with cows does not seem all that stressful to me, though the question might be MOOt (just a little ha ha there).
I believe we are agreed then that the current therapies of choice are not the greatest but, as you say, that's all there is right now.
end comments.
Thanks Citizen Jimserac
D. C. Sessions - 07 May 2008 15:08 GMT > With regard to the Paul Allen example, this is > a very bad example precisely because he is very wealthy > and could afford the very best - most of us are not and cannot! He is now. He wasn't then.
| sh.t happens. Sometimes it happens to you. | +--- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---+
Martin - 07 May 2008 17:32 GMT >> In message <ce76066d-ee33-46bf-ba77-9b3d5e286...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, CitizenJimseracwrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >chemotherapy much as we view the bloodletting, ingesting Mercury and >other primitive standard medical practices of the 1800's. No we won't. Because we know that those practices did only harm and no good. And we will probably always have chemotherapy. Any chemical approach to curing cancer, even if it has 100% efficacy and no side-effects whatsoever is called chemotherapy.
>I reiterate my statement that many people who were lucky enough to >survive chemotherapy will refuse it ... and accept DEATH rather than >repeat it if needed a second time. You have research to back that up I suppose?
>You can worship the chemotherapists, kiss their feet, kneel at their >altar and I really don' give a crap if you are outraged, angered or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >insufficiency and anti-life philosophies >which are inimical to the health of human beings. So you'd not only let little children die of vaccine preventable diseases, you'd also let people with cancer die because you think that's better than the cures we have today. You're a real piece of work Jimmy/PeterB.
>These criticisms in no way have implications regarding the causative >effects in cancer - environmental, ELECTROMAGNETIC, genetic or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Thanks >Citizen Jimserac Kelley Eidem - 03 May 2008 20:42 GMT > <Butterflies1...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > The following alternative methods have been subected to formal testing > either via clinical trials or examination of samplings of their cases. ....
> Revici The TRIAL most often referred to provided tremendous benefits for the patients involved. The REPORT that was published in JAMA was fraudulent, however. Totally fraudulent. A crime against humanity.
If you rely on the false report, then your conclusion becomes the opposite of the actual results.
> Attempts were made to perform more formal trials of Burton's > Immunoaugmentative therapy and Burzinski's antineoplastins but fell through [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > well as alternative therapies, technology, and information to the > > public through various means.
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