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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2008

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The Mormon Church and Alternative Medicine

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Bee - 09 Mar 2008 16:59 GMT
I normally do not read blogs---but this one today
caught my eye---I've always felt that some of the supplements on the
market and MLM pyramid scheme may have had their roots in religious
organizations.  I did not realize (and I do not mean to offend) that
many of the supplemental and MLM companies have a deep root in the
Mormon Church?   I hate MLM companies with a passion---but it would
appear that the LDS Church may be behind some of the MLM stuff-
disguising it as alternative health products---what's up with this?
Am I seeing really what would appear to be there -- or am I missing
something?
           http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187
Mark Probert - 09 Mar 2008 17:22 GMT
>                I normally do not read blogs---but this one today
> caught my eye---I've always felt that some of the supplements on the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> something?
>            http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187

You must have missed my comments, which I made several times, that the
DSHEA chief promotor was Orrin Hatch, a senator from Utah, which I
call "Supplement Valley".

His son is a lobbyist for the industry.

And, nothing happens in Utah without the blessing of the Mormon
Church. NOTHING.
Bee - 09 Mar 2008 18:32 GMT
> You must have missed my comments, which I made several times, that the
> DSHEA chief promotor was Orrin Hatch, a senator from Utah, which I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> And, nothing happens in Utah without the blessing of the Mormon
> Church. NOTHING.

You know Mark, half of the stuff you write - I don't read--I'm sure
the same with me-right?

But thanks to Andrew and our religious discussions --- I remember
getting a magazine (I don't remember the name of it) back in about
1999 or so---where the discussion was blatant about money---MLM, and
Utah.  And about alternative health.
And another well wisher (I think not), sent me one from another
religious organization (which I kind of think was a cult religion--ka
ching, kaching, kaching) about issues in our healthcare---I have this
philosophy that I do not believe that religious organizations should
be involved in making decisions about our healthcare to the point of
being lobbyists --- at the government level--one needs to leave their
religious faith out of the equation.  It is hard not to be judgmental
and doing what one feels is right for their body -- if one's religion
supports one kind of health care of another.  I know many people have
left their organized church of choice because of their own personal
frustrations with the church butting into too many personal decisions,
but I also am aware that it is isn't just one religious organization,
it is everyone's ideas.  And it is also the ideas of the insurance
companies -- deciding what they want to pay, what they believe is
right to pay, and criticizing doctors who have made their lifelong
careers out of doing something that doesn't fit their paying agenda.

I think the government should take over the insurance plan for all
Americans (citizens only).  Anyone that comes to America expecting to
be taken care of, should not be allowed free medical care.  It ticks
me off to no end, when people come here and expect to be taken care
of, work under the table, pay no taxes, and send money home every
month to their native country.  An old saying out of the sixties that
I still love today, gas, grass or a.s, no one rides for free.  I think
as Americans we should have a choice -- of what health care we would
like -- kind of a universal cafeteria plan - so much a month except
for emergency situations --- you could still have different providers
--- kind of like one gigantic HMO---just like Alice's Restaurant --
where you get to get anything you want -- you pay a flat fee per month
--- depending on the size of your family.  If you want to have 15 kids
-- the choice is yours to have those 15 kids -- but the health care $$
you pay would be different than the persons that are married with no
kids.  Employers could pay a portion of that flat rate every month --
which would encourage people to work -- unless they are retired---or
genuinely disabled.
   There is just too much interference with religious organizations
and healthcare, MLMs (which I consider some pharmaceutical companies
to be part of this), and we need an objective healthcare system that
is going to take care of everyone, whether they are black, Buddist,
brown, purple, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Atheist, Mormon, white,
orange, or whatever.
   Government should also take over the pharmaceutical companies as
well---totally non profit would work - that way
no one gets paid for prescribing more of this or that, and the prices
are the same for everyone - because it is included in that gigantic
HMO ---.
   No one should be making money off of anyone's health---period.....
Richard Schultz - 12 Mar 2008 10:54 GMT
: But thanks to Andrew and our religious discussions ---

Doesn't it bother you even a little bit that Mr. Kingoff demonstrably had
no clue whatsoever about what he was talking about during your "religious
discussions"?

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Bee - 13 Mar 2008 02:58 GMT
> Doesn't it bother you even a little bit that Mr. Kingoff demonstrably had
> no clue whatsoever about what he was talking about during your "religious
> discussions"?

I have no idea if what Andrew Kingoff was telling me was right or
wrong.
You are judging him, I am not.
Richard Schultz - 13 Mar 2008 07:15 GMT
:> Doesn't it bother you even a little bit that Mr. Kingoff demonstrably had
:> no clue whatsoever about what he was talking about during your "religious
:> discussions"?

: I have no idea if what Andrew Kingoff was telling me was right or
: wrong.  You are judging him, I am not.

I am not "judging" him.  I am pointing out that he made several basic
*errors of fact*, which errors are easily demonstrated.  I even gave
references to on-line sources that demonstrated his errors so that he
(and you) would not have to take my word for it.  What is amusing is that
even after he *acknowledged* one of his errors, he continued to make it.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . . for while he was not dumber than an ox, he was not any smarter."
                -- James Thurber, _My Life and Hard Times_
Richard Schultz - 12 Mar 2008 10:53 GMT
: And, nothing happens in Utah without the blessing of the Mormon
: Church. NOTHING.

Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen without
their blessing.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"A condemned man does not request egg salad for his last meal.  He also
doesn't order Alka-Seltzer."
                    Kehlog Ahlbran, _The Profit_
Mark Probert - 12 Mar 2008 12:17 GMT
> In article <c112053c-2d2f-444f-9c6b-69448cf08...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen without
> their blessing.

Anything major?
Richard Schultz - 12 Mar 2008 13:13 GMT
:> In article <c112053c-2d2f-444f-9c6b-69448cf08...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:

:> : And, nothing happens in Utah without the blessing of the Mormon
:> : Church. NOTHING.

:> Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen without
:> their blessing.

: Anything major?

That depends on how important beer is in your life, I suppose.  

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Mark Probert - 12 Mar 2008 13:24 GMT
> In article <17f932a7-ec70-430a-bd35-2c073f40d...@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :> In article <c112053c-2d2f-444f-9c6b-69448cf08...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> That depends on how important beer is in your life, I suppose.  

Weel, a few years ago I bought a six pack and had to throw out five
cans because they spoiled.
Richard Schultz - 12 Mar 2008 16:01 GMT
:> In article <17f932a7-ec70-430a-bd35-2c073f40d...@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
:> :> In article <c112053c-2d2f-444f-9c6b-69448cf08...@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:

:> :> : And, nothing happens in Utah without the blessing of the Mormon
:> :> : Church. NOTHING.

:> :> Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen
:> :> without their blessing.

:> : Anything major?

:> That depends on how important beer is in your life, I suppose.

: Weel, a few years ago I bought a six pack and had to throw out five
: cans because they spoiled.

When I lived in Utah, you could only get 3.2 (near) beer in the supermarket.
The most efficient way of getting real beer was to drive to Wyoming.  Also,
at the time that I lived there, there was one decent coffee shop in Salt
Lake City (http://www.roasting.com); there may be more nowadays, but in
any case, I doubt that the Salt Lake Roasting Co. is operating with the
blessing of the LDS hierarchy.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Mark Probert - 13 Mar 2008 04:01 GMT
> In article <53aaedef-ee8d-45a8-9748-0b0633e3d...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :> In article <17f932a7-ec70-430a-bd35-2c073f40d...@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> any case, I doubt that the Salt Lake Roasting Co. is operating with the
> blessing of the LDS hierarchy.

Ever try "Mormon Tea"? It was consumed by Native Americans, and the
early Mormons loved it as it did not contain caffeine.

However, it is an excellent source of epinepherine.
Richard Schultz - 13 Mar 2008 07:17 GMT
: Ever try "Mormon Tea"? It was consumed by Native Americans, and the
: early Mormons loved it as it did not contain caffeine.

The idea that the original prohibition was against caffeine is a later
interpretation; IIRC, the original prohibition was against "hot drinks."

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Jan Drew - 13 Mar 2008 04:57 GMT
> In article
> <53aaedef-ee8d-45a8-9748-0b0633e3d4b2@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Mark
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> : Weel, a few years ago I bought a six pack and had to throw out five
> : cans because they spoiled.

Whasamatter, Richard, you didn't type [sic] beside Mark's
Weel.....................

> When I lived in Utah, you could only get 3.2 (near) beer in the
> supermarket.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> -----
> "an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Bee - 13 Mar 2008 02:59 GMT
> Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen without
> their blessing.

Did you work at BYU ?  Don't we have another poster that taught there
was well?
Richard Schultz - 13 Mar 2008 07:18 GMT
:> Having lived in Utah, I can assure you that plenty of things happen without
:> their blessing.

: Did you work at BYU ?  

Ask Tim Bolen -- he's the one who's an expert at tracking me down.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Life is a blur of Republicans and meat."   -- Zippy
 
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