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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2008Question: Does Mr. Mark Probert Believe That it Is Okay To Inject A Known Highly Neurotoxic Substance Such As Mercury Into Children?
I have tried to keep all of my posts as civil as possible despite of the insults directed towards me. I have decided not to respond to posts that insult myself or other people. Some say that I am evasive by not responding. Some say that it has "backfired." Those that say these things are certainly entitled to their opinion. I expect these responses however I do not agree. Ex lawyers like Mark Probert should know that the legal system asks questions that many times are phrased with an answer that requires a simple yes or no. I asked my question" Is it okay to inject a known highly neurotoxic substance such as mercury into children. I did not ask about any disease state that it may cause. I did not ask if mercury causes autism. That is another topic. I asked this question since mercury is highly toxic in very very small amounts . According to toxicologists such as Dr. Richardson in Canada, there is no safe level of mercury in the human body. The degree of morbidity may vary but the fact that mercury is highly toxic in very small amounts, and there is no safe dose does not. Knowing this information, I asked the question whether it was okay to inject a known highly neurotoxic substance such as mercury into children. Yes or no? If it accepted that mercury is highly neurotoxic and there is no safe dose, then a yes or no question is valid. If ones differs with these facts, the yes or no question is still valid and one can then go on to explain and qualify the yes or no answer. Mr. Probert responded:" Since dose makes the poison, and the fact that there is no good scientific evidence whatsoever that the dosage used caused any problem, I do not think it matters." I do not agree. From there a discussion of disease states, opinions on safe doses (if any, other genetic and environmental factors and interactions could begin. So the accusations against me (and the humorous and some not so humorous insults) set the stage for a dialogue that is not based in science but instead based in holding on to a belief system at all costs regardless of the data. Conflicting data invites a healthy debate, not insults. I have changed my mind on issues many times throughout my career. As I have stated, the more that I know the more that I say "I don't know." Science and the world around is is highly complex. Without open minds we will never progress. When people make posts calling people idiots, a.sholes, nutters, etc. all progress comes to a halt. >I have tried to keep all of my posts as civil as possible despite of > the insults directed towards me. I have decided not to respond to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > such as Dr. Richardson in Canada, there is no safe level of mercury in > the human body. Argument from dubious authority and scientifically absurd. Of course there will be a mercury content of the body below which no toxic effects can be detected (how about six atoms?). A great many studies have been performed on various populations with exceptional exposure to mercury (including thiomerosal) without any effects being evident below a certain level of exposure. Thresholds of exposure have been well established in industry and for foods and air quality and usually allow for a wide margin of safety. This silly statement also creates practical absurdities. We cannot completely eliminate exposure to mercury. It is ubiquitous. It is particularly absurd to obsess about the tiny amounts still present in flu vaccine, as some do, when a fish meal can contain as much organic mercury and can potentially be eaten every day rather than every few months. Thiomerosal was removed from vaccines not because of any evidence of ill-effects from it, but because of an awareness that when combined with other exposures in the air and in the diet the exposure of some infants might be getting close to levels where inconspicuous and difficult to detect toxic effects might occur. It was a very precautionary step. PM >The degree of morbidity may vary but the fact that > mercury is highly toxic in very small amounts, and there is no safe [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > calling people idiots, a.sholes, nutters, etc. all progress comes to a > halt. > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Read the Richardson report and you will see a contradictoy conclusion to low levels of mercury having no detrimental physical effects. Granted, some people are more susceptible than others but common sense tells you that at the levels found in vaccines, it is not wise to inject mercury in that concentration. You can try and find all types of arguments to defend the injection of mercury into children instead of looking at the issue objectively and evaluating if it really is a good idea to do so. > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > - I have tried to keep all of my posts as civil as possible despite of the insults directed towards me. I have decided not to respond to posts that insult myself or other people. Some say that I am evasive by not responding. Some say that it has "backfired." Those that say these things are certainly entitled to their opinion. I expect these responses however I do not agree. Ex lawyers like Mark Probert should know that the legal system asks questions that many times are phrased with an answer that requires a simple yes or no. I asked my question" Is it okay to inject a known highly neurotoxic substance such as mercury into children. I did not ask about any disease state that it may cause. I did not ask if mercury causes autism. That is another topic. I asked this question since mercury is highly toxic in very very small amounts . According to toxicologists such as Dr. Richardson in Canada, there is no safe level of mercury in the human body. The degree of morbidity may vary but the fact that mercury is highly toxic in very small amounts, and there is no safe dose does not. Knowing this information, I asked the question whether it was okay to inject a known highly neurotoxic substance such as mercury into children. Yes or no? If it accepted that mercury is highly neurotoxic and there is no safe dose, then a yes or no question is valid. If ones differs with these facts, the yes or no question is still valid and one can then go on to explain and qualify the yes or no answer. Mr. Probert responded:" Since dose makes the poison, and the fact that there is no good scientific evidence whatsoever that the dosage used caused any problem, I do not think it matters." I do not agree. From there a discussion of disease states, opinions on safe doses (if any, other genetic and environmental factors and interactions could begin. So the accusations against me (and the humorous and some not so humorous insults) set the stage for a dialogue that is not based in science but instead based in holding on to a belief system at all costs regardless of the data. Conflicting data invites a healthy debate, not insults. I have changed my mind on issues many times throughout my career. As I have stated, the more that I know the more that I say "I don't know." Science and the world around is is highly complex. Without open minds we will never progress. When people make posts calling people idiots, a.sholes, nutters, etc. all progress comes to a halt. > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I received an email from Mark Probert last night requesting that I remove this thread with his name in the title. I have removed my posts and emailed Google to remove the thread. I am not sure if it can be removed, but my goals, as I have stated, is a civil academic discussion. If somebody finds something such as the title of their name in a thread, whether I agree with the person or not, I will attempt to remove it. That does not mean that I agree or disagree with other threads that have person's name in them. I certainly do not aqgree with Mr. Proberts position on the possible dangers of vaccines and thimerosol and I certainly do not agree with the response by Peter Moran on this thread. After looking at his website and comparing it to the QW website I understand his affiliation. It is clear to me that no mater how much evidence is presented, an objective discussion is not possible on this forum. > > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > It is clear to me that no mater how much evidence is presented, an > objective discussion is not possible on this forum. That was very noble of you. That does not happen all of the time---- I agree a civil discussion here is not possible - that's why I see this as entertainment. You are not the first one to have done this, BTW to have used someone's name in a post--- I'm also sorry I questioned your name got brought up with reference to the inappropriate behavior of you with your patients. Why someone would even do that is beyond me. Dr. K, one of things you have understand here -- and several of us have brought up sock puppets ---in actuality, I have watched from a distance --- and in actuality, I kind of envision the MHA and other newsgroups as having a classical music kind of orchestration. There is a conductor -- who conducts the orchestra - everyone has their part to play in the orchestra - different instruments are brought in to play different parts---it kind of reminds me of some of the numbers in "Victory at Sea." The stronger trombones drown out the violins--the flutes ever so lovely in their performance --and the crash of cymbals, and even players who play out of key---it is by no "note" a happy performance - it is all very disturbing, by the individual or individuals that have orchestrated the performance. The idea is for the audience who has come to the performance expecting to hear a nice blend of instruments - communicating back and forth with each other -- to get so lost in the music that they agree it is a wonderful performance - kind of like mind control using music -- but after the songs play out -- and the repetition starts, and when the music critics complain that the music is too loud, or the songs are being played off key - the orchestra's conductor gets angry --- that he was misunderstood - instead of being civil he gets angrier -- the orchestra attempts to silence the critics---hoping that individuals in the audience will simply get up and walk away. If you know how "moody" musicians are -- you would see this principle being used here. As I say, this is for entertainment purposes only, and should never be taken seriously. It is obvious that the conductor has an agenda with his music, and the critics who attempt to be honest in our opinions of the music, are often attempted to be silenced by the entire orchestra chamber. > > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Kudos to you for your actions! > > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Dr K: The Nitwit Brigade just brought in their "big gun." the not-so- illustrious" Peter Moran, who claims to be an expert in just about everything. His job here, was to look down his nose at you, and proclaim, in his totally assinine way, that you don't know what you are talking about. You were supposed to feel humiated by his words. Go ahead and make a rude noise on his behalf. Peter Moran, for sure, wins the "Total Pompous-Ass-ity Award" hands down. Only the personna who claims to be "Richard Schultz" comes close. But, be assured, Moran cannot back up his so-called scientific claims. I've challenged him several times, demanding, as it were, that he put up - and he can't come to the fore. A short while ago I called his bluff, after he'd made defamatory remarks about my friend, and world-renowed researcher and Author, Hulda Regehr Clark, PhD. I simply asked him to point out where, exactly, Clark was wrong in her book - and, of course, as I expected, Moran was unable to do so. Not only that, but despite his claims at cancer expertise, he cannot show even one case where he ever helped anyone, at all. Moran is all hot air - the kind one expels from their anus, after consuming a meal containing beans. Amused in California.. Tim Bolen On Mar 8, 9:52 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It seems that there is a lot of this around here. This is not a news/educational/entertainment group. Nothing could be further from reality. It is a malicious, evil and in my opinion dangerous group. Proof of this to come shortly. The emails that I received over the past two days are....well you decide. - > It seems that there is a lot of this around here. > This is not a news/educational/entertainment group. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The emails that I received over the past two days are....well you > decide. It is for entertainment purposes only. > - > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It is for entertainment purposes only. I can except the fact that any actual constructive information exchange will not happen here. So the next level is entertainment.That is okay also if you realize that this is all that it is. But what I received in email does not remotely classify as entertainment. It is bizare and quite disturbing. > I can except the fact that any actual constructive information > exchange will not happen here. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > entertainment. > It is bizare and quite disturbing. I am clueless to what your email says---and I really don't want to see it, but if there is some cause for disturbance -- if you are a doctor, I am sure you have an attorney and you could have him/her write a letter----- > > I can except the fact that any actual constructive information > > exchange will not happen here. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > am sure > you have an attorney and you could have him/her write a letter----- I do not intend to reveal the emails unless necessary but suffice it to say that this is a group which I no longer find both enjoyable and productive. When terms like "warfare" are used I have no interest in being a part of a group with these agendas and tactics. I can't help but feel "set up." A misunderstanding turned into a huge deal which no amount of rational dialogue could change. I wish no one ill to anyone whatsoever, but I certainly will be looking over my shoulder to watch my "six" That is why I am leaving this forum. It is simply not worth it. Best to all. Cheers > > > I can except the fact that any actual constructive information > > > exchange will not happen here. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Dr K: I understand your misgivings in this matter. You are correct in your asumption that you could, and will, be attacked by these people, and those that financially support them. Ilena Rosenthal was forced to flee the US during her court case, especially after her attorneys began to pummell the Plaintiffs, and demand the money they were owed. It got even worse, for her, after internet giants, like Google, Yahoo, and about twenty others, climbed onto her legal bandwagon,and began to pummell the Plaintiffs, also. There is, in the archives of this discussion group, adequate evidence of their intent to harm her. If I were you, I would keep a record of what happens, and be suspicious of unusual activities. You have entered a war zone. You are right to take this seriously. I would like to see copies of what you were sent, personally. Please forward them to me at jurimed2 at earthlink.net. I will be glad to assist you in the proper "Warning letters" you must send to those threatening you, so that you can legally take whatever action option you choose to defend yourself and your family. And, you have a lot of very attractive options available. Tim Bolen On Mar 9, 10:21 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > I can except the fact that any actual constructive information > > > > exchange will not happen here. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Tim Bolen Dr, Kissmart enough not to be your client. > On Mar 9, 10:21 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Mark: You failed to answer my earlier question. Has your major client been subpoened by Cuomo yet? Curious in California... Tim Bolen On Mar 9, 12:38 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > > On Mar 9, 10:21 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > You failed to answer my earlier question. Has your major client been > subpoened by Cuomo yet? My major client is not a health insurer, idiot, and you know that, since Bee told you that. I do not deal with health insurance, except as a consumer. > Curious in California... Correction: Stupid in California, and the other 49. > My major client is not a health insurer, idiot, and you know that, > since Bee told you that. I do not deal with health insurance, except > as a consumer. I thought you did worker's compensation---I know you don't deal with health insurance - although medical records has a major part of worker's compensation, and when they review they review everything---right? And health insurance carriers often not only due health insurance but they do worker's compensation as well, right? > > My major client is not a health insurer, idiot, and you know that, > > since Bee told you that. I do not deal with health insurance, except [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > health insurance - although medical records has a major part of > worker's compensation, True, but irrelevant. > and when they review they review everything---right? No. A WC carrier is legally entitled only to case relevant records. To secure other records there must be a showing of why those records are needed, and even then, their use is limited. And health > insurance carriers > often not only due health insurance but they do worker's compensation > as well, right? Not in NY. LOL! I guess the usual suspects here have their good days and their bad days. As do the drug companies more and more all the time. There have been so much nefarious doings in the news lately with the drug industry and the FDA that slowly but surely a true view of the situation is coming clear to the average consumer. Why else do folks go more and more to the alternative treatments, but that they are suspicious? Now, who will step up here and defend the FDA, Big Pharma, and all the little spokespersons? Chris > LOL! I guess the usual suspects here have their good days and >their bad days. As do the drug companies more and more all the time. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >go more and more to the alternative treatments, but that they are >suspicious? Because they've been lied to extensively by conspiracy-mongers like you? Just an idea. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?" -- Bill Maher > Because they've been lied to extensively by conspiracy-mongers like > you? Just an idea. Now that is funny----!!! On Mar 9, 10:21 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Mar 9, 6:26 am, Kulacz <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Tim Bolen Dr, Kissmart enough not to be your client. == I'll bet these emails came from YOU, Mark S Probert. It is your practice to email new posters who disagree with you. Then you whine nonsense about those who don't participate in Usenet. Everyone except your *gang* (who lie to protect each other) knows you have sent emails to me. Even faked ones YOU emailed stating they were from your wife. It was claimed there are no secrets between you and Sandra. I invite you to show her the below. Of course..you won't. So... maybe I should send it? Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-September 7, 2004" <M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t 09-07...@lambercartel.com> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 10, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t 07-10...@lymbercartel.com> From: M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 30, 2004 (M.a.r.k_P.r.o.b.e.r.t_04-30...@limbercartel.com) On Mar 8, 9:52 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Mar 8, 7:40 am, Kulacz <drkul...@optonline.net> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 155 lines] > > - Show quoted text - It seems that there is a lot of this around here. This is not a news/educational/entertainment group. Nothing could be further from reality. It is a malicious, evil and in my opinion dangerous group. Proof of this to come shortly. The emails that I received over the past two days are....well you decide. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is Mark S Probert's habit to email new posters. He just cannot help himself and then posts.. *It is the fact you sent the email which is not polite.* On Mar 8, 6:52 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > Moran is all hot air - the kind one expels from their anus, after > consuming a meal containing beans. Sounds like you speak from experience - have you tried BEAN-O to help your condition? Or does being a Has-Bean, suit you better? What kind of bean are you in the first place--- String Bean? (Strings people along) Baked Bean? (Wasted Away in Margaritaville----never found the large shaker of salt) LIE-MA Bean? (This the bean that learned from their mother at an early age to LIE, MA to get what you want) Pork and Beans? (not good enough to be Kosher) Green Beans (Envious of someone else's successful career) Wax Bean (waxes and polishes their career) Pinto Bean (rides a horse w/o a saddle) Black Bean (spent way too much time in the sun--caught some harmful rays) Navy Bean (served in the U.S. Naval system) Kidney Bean (loves ORGANic food) Has Bean (been there done that, has the shirt) Bean me up Scotty - there is no logical life on this planet! > On Mar 8, 6:52 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Bean me up Scotty - there is no logical life on this planet! Beautiful. |
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