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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2008Cupping Therapy Beneficial in Treating Numerous Diseases
Cool read: http://www.naturalnews.com/022727.html > Cool read: > > http://www.naturalnews.com/022727.html Interesting. ----------------------------------------- http://mesothelioma.mypressonline.com/index.html - Information and advice on Mesothelioma cancer Bee: Thanks for the link. I made a copy of that article. I have been familiar with cupping for about 20 years. Much of the older ortho and alt medical literature contain info on that method. In the early to mid-90's I read a book entitled, "Cupping A Corpse". A man thought to be schizophrenic, in reality, had a gangrene infection on the soles of his feet. He had been cupping wounds related to diabetes, got an infection, and became confused with hallucinations. They thought he was going to die. Finally somebody noticed sores on the soles of his feet and connected them with the rings(cupping) on his leg. The MD that noticed his soles was familiar with cupping. In 2003 I saw a modern pneumatic cupping device used in a hospital by an infection control MD. The patient was a junkie that had been reusing needles and had also damaged a vein. Necrosis and blood poisoning! Paul > Cool read: > > http://www.naturalnews.com/022727.html > Bee: Thanks for the link. I made a copy of that article. You are welcome. My acupuncturist uses traditional needles, and cups on some areas of my body--it brings the toxins up to the surface, and then of course drinking a ton of water after a treatment, helps send the gunk out of your system. I get micro circuit pulsating on some of the points - which actually have helped relieve the problems I have with a twisted pelvis--nothing like falling on black ice --:>) Bee: Did Andrew ever provide any info on electroacupuncture? I became familiar with that form of acupuncture/electrotherapy by reading about Dr. Robert Becker's(The Body Electric, Cross Currents) research for the VA. At one time I was a biomedical electronic tech(BMED), so I am very interested in electrotherapy. Actually, I'm still somewhat of a BMED. Paul > > Bee: Thanks for the link. I made a copy of that article. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > twisted > pelvis--nothing like falling on black ice --:>) > Bee: Did Andrew ever provide any info > on electroacupuncture? I became familiar [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > so I am very interested in electrotherapy. Actually, I'm > still somewhat of a BMED. I didn't realize until yesterday that there is the micro circuit pulsating technique and that electrical acupuncture is different - I apparently know first handed what the micro circuit pulsating technique is, but I do not know what electric acupuncture is-perhaps Andrew can help us out here. On Feb 27, 12:34 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Bee: Thanks for the link. I made a copy of that article. You are welcome. My acupuncturist uses traditional needles, and cups on some areas of my body--it brings the toxins up to the surface, and then of course drinking a ton of water after a treatment, helps send the gunk out of your system. I have a question getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" are brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and increasing urine output MIGHT help ... me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo I get micro circuit pulsating on some of the points - which actually have helped relieve the problems I have with a twisted pelvis--nothing like falling on black ice --:>) Vultch: Why did an infection contol MD use a high-tech cupping instrument for necrosis, infection, and blood poisoning? The patient was also on an antibiotic drip and received other meds. The cupping pump was even used after the patient was released from the hospital. The device was used for weeks. PLACEBO? Vultch, something is wrong with you. Anti-Social? or Just A Nut? Caw! Caw! Caw! Yuck! Paul Why On Feb 27, 4:58 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > On Feb 27, 12:34 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > twisted > pelvis--nothing like falling on black ice --:>) cite please the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which changes the procedure sorta like a drain with some suction applied again...would like to read the article thanks Vultch: Why did an infection contol MD use a high-tech cupping instrument for necrosis, infection, and blood poisoning? The patient was also on an antibiotic drip and received other meds. The cupping pump was even used after the patient was released from the hospital. The device was used for weeks. PLACEBO? Vultch, something is wrong with you. Anti-Social? or Just A Nut? Caw! Caw! Caw! Yuck! Paul Why On Feb 27, 4:58 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "Bee" <Butterflies2...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > twisted > pelvis--nothing like falling on black ice --:>) Vultch: Biloxi Regional Hospital; Biloxi, MS; April/May 2003; JH; rpautrey2 saw it; Your statement was universal, "me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo". Does the use of a high-tech cupping device in a hospital(Infection Control) qualify as a "PLACEBO"? Was that an A.A.S. degree in nursing? You don't need anymore knowledge, you know it all. Caw! Caw! Caw! MEOW! PA On Feb 27, 5:25 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > cite please > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: Biloxi Regional Hospital; Biloxi, MS; April/May 2003; JH; rpautrey2 saw it; Your statement was universal, "me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo". Does the use of a high-tech cupping device in a hospital(Infection Control) qualify as a "PLACEBO"? Was that an A.A.S. degree in nursing? You don't need anymore knowledge, you know it all. btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the place where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an ancedote.. quess they didn't teach you statistics again...got a cite?? article..etc no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... any other stupid comments Caw! Caw! Caw! MEOW! PA On Feb 27, 5:25 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > cite please > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: What biomedical equipment manufacturer would make a multi-thousand dollar unit for one hospital infection control unit and one patient? Daaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Caw! Caw! GULP! Roadkill! PUKE! PA On Feb 27, 6:36 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch: Biloxi Regional Hospital; Biloxi, MS; > April/May 2003; JH; rpautrey2 saw it; Your [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: What biomedical equipment manufacturer would make a multi-thousand dollar unit for one hospital infection control unit and one patient? probably the one you worked for name of manufacturer please?? btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment industry so yes...possible for one patient again...source?? name of company?? knew you couldn't do it Daaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Caw! Caw! GULP! Roadkill! PUKE! PA On Feb 27, 6:36 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch(NUT!): I have never worked for a medical equipment manufacturer, although I did apply for some positions after I left active duty(FAMC- Aurora, CO). I was a military BMED and went into audio electronics before I went back to school. Apples & Oranges! Caw! PA On Feb 27, 7:07 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch: What biomedical equipment manufacturer > would make a multi-thousand dollar unit for one hospital [quoted text clipped - 133 lines] > > - Show quoted text - yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team whoa...such credentials my ?? remains....WHAT manufacturer?? where is the case written up?? or did ONE doctor try it on ONE patient...and what were the results if in fact it was a biomedical device...it had to have an FDA license...which included clinical trials...etc my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do Vultch(NUT!): I have never worked for a medical equipment manufacturer, although I did apply for some positions after I left active duty(FAMC- Aurora, CO). I was a military BMED and went into audio electronics before I went back to school. Apples & Oranges! Caw! PA On Feb 27, 7:07 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 139 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: I am going to "SLAM" you with information on this one device, and then I might never respond to you again. YOU ARE A PEST AND YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY WITH ME. I normally don't bog down with idiots, but I am going to make an exception. You can't even write a complete sentence that makes sense and I doubt your honesty and integrity, I don't think you have any. Be patient! Where did you get your Associates(2 year) nursing degree. CAW! CAW! CAW! Paul On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team > [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: I am going to "SLAM" you with information on this one device, and then I might never respond to you again. YOU ARE A PEST AND YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY WITH ME. I normally don't bog down with idiots, but I am going to make an exception. You can't even write a complete sentence that makes sense and I doubt your honesty and integrity, I don't think you have any. Be patient! Where did you get your Associates(2 year) nursing degree. just for the sake of it... I have 4 nursing degrees.......diploma,,,associates,,bacheolor's ,,,and masters am licensed in the state of Calif as a nurse practitioner...have 40 years experience still waiting for the info on this device...its clinical trials..its FDA approval...US Patent Number...name of manufacturer think you can handle all that?? doubt it CAW! CAW! CAW! Paul On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team > [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: Here are some leads for you. Fill us in! Cat got your tounge? PA Excerpt: BioMechanics September 2005 Negative pressure wound therapy options promote patient care By: Michael S. Miller, DO, Rhonda Brown, LPN, and Cheryl McDaniel, LPN Negative pressure wound therapy (NPWT) is a topical treatment intended to promote healing in acute and chronic wounds. It involves the application of negative pressure (suction) to the wound bed. There are two main NPWT equipment systems commonly used in the U.S., one called the VAC (vacuum-assisted closure), offered by Kinetic Concepts (San Antonio), and the other called the Versatile 1 (V1) wound vacuum system by Blue Sky Medical (La Costa, CA). NPWT consists of a nonadherent, porous wound dressing, a drainage tube placed adjacent to or inserted in the dressing, an occlusive transparent film sealing the wound and the drainage tube, and a connection to a vacuum source, which supplies the negative pressure. The concept is to turn an open wound into a controlled, closed wound while removing excess fluid from the wound bed, thus enhancing circulation and disposal of cellular waste from the lymphatic system. 1 This technique is usually considered for chronic wounds (those that fail to progress through the normal phases of healing-inflammation, proliferation, maturation-and thus do not heal), acute wounds (wounds that are expected to heal and demonstrate evidence of progression through the phases of healing), and difficult wounds (wounds with such associated factors as diabetes, arterial insufficiency, and venous insufficiency). Common applications for NPWT appear in Table 1.1 In 1995 the Food and Drug Administration was presented with and first approved negative pressure equipment that was subsequently marketed as the VAC, by Kinetic Concepts. Link To Article: http://www.biomech.com/printable/index.jhtml?articleID=170701858 **************************************************************************************************************************** FDA Clears BlueSky's Versatile 1 Wound Vacuum System for Marketing BlueSky Medical Group Inc. received US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for marketing the Versatile 1(tm) Wound Vacuum System. The wound vacuum applies localized negative pressure to the wound bed to promote wound healing. Localized negative pressure has been used for years to heal wounds and was reintroduced in the 1980s with flexible membrane technology by Katherine Jeter, DEd, ET. The Wound Vacuum System concept follows the teachings of Dr. Jeter and Dr. Mark Chariker. The FDA cleared the Chariker-Jeter Vacuum Sealing Kit as part of the Wound Vacuum System approach. The FDA approved marketing of the Wound Vacuum System for patients who would benefit from use of a suction device to promote wound healing. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) recently approved the Versatile 1 Pump and the Chariker-Jeter Accessory kits for reimbursement. BlueSky, the number-two company in the negative pressure therapy field, continues to make progress in a number of areas. The approval for these codes means that BlueSky's dealer base may use the assigned codes for Medicare reimbursement purposes. While the codes may not be the final codes assigned to the products, approval represents a significant step: CMS has realized the value of the products. Additionally, Anthem BlueCross, a major insurance carrier in the US, has rewritten its reimbursement policy to include the Versatile 1 Pump as a covered product under its Negative Pressure Wound Therapy in the Home Environment policy. Manufacturers Link: http://www.blueskymedical.com for more information. Link To This Article Page: http://www.extendedcarenews.com/article/3496 **************************************************************************************************************************** Excerpt From: Wound treatment employing reduced pressure Document Type and Number:United States Patent 7198046 Link to this page:http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7198046.html Abstract:A method of treating tissue damage comprises applying a negative pressure to a wound sufficient in time and magnitude to promote tissue migration and thus facilitate closure of the wound. The method is applicable to wounds, burns, infected wounds, and live tissue attachments. A wound treatment apparatus is provided in which a fluid impermeable wound cover is sealed over a wound site. A screen in the form of an open-cell foam screen or a rigid porous screen is placed beneath the wound cover over the wound. A vacuum pump supplies suction within the wound cover over the treatment site. Inventors:Argenta, Louis C. (Winston-Salem, NC, US) Morykwas, Michael J. (Pfafftown, NC, US) Application Number:09/026353 Filing Date:02/19/1998 Publication Date:04/03/2007 Assignee:WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY HEALTH (US) Primary Class:128/897 Other Classes:602/42 International Classes:A61B19/00 Field of Search:128/897-898, 602/42-53 US Patent References: 0765746 July, 1904 Miner 0774529 November, 1904 Nieschang 0843674 February, 1907 Funk 1355679 October, 1920 McDonnell Vacuum apparatus 1355846 October, 1920 Rannells Medical appliance 1385346 July, 1921 Taylor Surgical wound-dam 1936129 November, 1933 Fisk Method of treating the skin and device therefor 2025492 December, 1935 Aird Wound drainage device 2195771 April, 1940 Estler Surgical suction drainage cup 2232254 February, 1941 Morgan Massage device 2280915 April, 1942 Johnson Device for irrigating and treating wounds 2338339 January, 1944 LaMere Massaging vibrator 2547758 April, 1951 Keeling Instrument for treating the male urethra 2969057 January, 1961 Simmons Nematodic swab 3026526 March, 1962 Montrose Bathing cap 3026874 March, 1962 Stevens Wound shield 3042041 July, 1962 Jascalevich Device for draining wounds 3115138 December, 1963 McElvenny Evacuator 3115318 December, 1963 Caillette Aircraft 3324855 June, 1967 Heimlich Surgical sponge stick 3367332 February, 1968 Groves Product and process for establishing a sterile area of skin 3382867 May, 1968 Reaves Body portion developing device with combined vacuum and vibrating means 3478736 November, 1969 Roberts et al. MASSAGE DEVICE 3481326 December, 1969 Schamblin VIBRATORY HAT FOR SCALP MASSAGING 3486504 December, 1969 Austin, Jr. DEVICE FOR APPLYING DRESSING,MEDICATION AND SUCTION 3520300 July, 1970 Flower et al. 128/276 SURGICAL SPONGE AND SUCTION DEVICE 3568675 March, 1971 Harvey FISTULA AND PENETRATING WOUND DRESSING **************************************************************************************************************************** Excerpt And Link To Patent: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7128735-fulltext.html Reduced pressure wound treatment appliance US Patent Issued on October 31, 2006 Inventor(s) Richard Scott Weston Application No. 11026733 filed on 2004-12-30 Current US Class 604/543 , Wound or abscess 602/13 , Inflatable 604/308 , Bandage, pad, shield, or attaching means extendable around body portion 604/313 , Means for removing material from surface by suction 604/540 MEANS OR METHOD FOR FACILITATING REMOVING NONTHERAPEUTIC MATERIAL FROM BODY Examiners Primary: Tatyana Zalukaeva Assistant: Laura C Hill Attorney, Agent or Firm Krohn; Kenneth P. US Patent References 4738249 Method and apparatus for augmenting blood circulation Issued on: April 19, 1988 Inventor: Linman, et al. 5000164 Circulation enhancing apparatus Issued on: March 19, 1991 Inventor: Cooper 5307791 Air massaging device with a precise pressure control Issued on: May 3, 1994 Inventor: Senoue, et al. 5425742 Use of hollow hypobaric chambers on body parts for increasing blood flow, reducing pressure and decreasing pain Issued on: June 20, 1995 Inventor: Joy 5462514 Apparatus for aiding erections in males Issued on: October 31, 1995 Inventor: Harris 5549584 Apparatus for removing fluid from a wound Issued on: August 27, 1996 Inventor: Gross 5636643 Wound treatment employing reduced pressure Issued on: June 10, 1997 Inventor: Argenta, et al. 5645981 Photographic silver halide materials and process comprising a pyrazolotriazole coupler Issued on: July 8, 1997 Inventor: Romanet, et al. 5688225 Therapeutic footwear Issued on: November 18, 1997 Inventor: Walker 5701917 Method and apparatus for promoting soft tissue enlargement and wound healing Issued on: December 30, 1997 Inventor: Khouri 5827246 Vacuum pad for collecting potentially hazardous fluids Issued on: October 27, 1998 Inventor: Bowen 5893368 Method for lowering abdominal pressure Issued on: April 13, 1999 Inventor: Sugerman 5938626 Apparatus for lowering intra-abdominal pressure Issued on: August 17, 1999 Inventor: Sugerman 6045541 Device for taking up fluid Issued on: April 4, 2000 Inventor: Matsumoto, et al. 6135166 Filling valve (two screens) Issued on: October 24, 2000 Inventor: Paradies, et al. 6142982 Portable wound treatment apparatus Issued on: November 7, 2000 Inventor: Hunt, et al. Foreign Patent References 2303085 CA Sep., 1997 2049978 CA 19901000 2369000 CA 19901000 2103033 CA 19921100 2414393 CA 19921100 2121688 CA 19930500 2115951 CA 19940800 2157772 CA 19940900 2198243 CA 19960200 2216791 CA 19961000 2237606 CA 19970500 2238413 CA 19970500 2267312 CA 19980400 2272372 CA 19980500 2285470 CA 19980900 2471780 CA 19990300 2347115 CA 20000400 2367460 CA 20001000 2369022 CA 20001000 2369024 CA 20001000 2368085 CA 20001100 2390513 CA 20010500 2408305 CA 20011100 2458285 CA 20030300 2483654 CA 20031100 2490027 CA 20031200 2486274 CA 20040900 Abstract A wound treatment appliance is provided for treating a wound, which appliance comprises a semi-rigid or rigid wound covering device and a vacuum system to provide a supply of reduced pressure to the wound covering device. The wound covering device may be comprised of an impermeable overlay, a stopper, and a suction drain. Alternatively, the wound covering device may be comprised of an impermeable overlay and a suction drain. The wound covering device may also be comprised of an impermeable overlay that has at least one channel that is a part thereof, wherein the at least one channel is used to provide reduced pressure to the wound and may remove fluid aspirated from the wound. The vacuum system may be comprised of at least a vacuum pump or a suction bulb, or a combination of the same. Finally, methods for using the wound treatment appliance are provided. Claims On Feb 28, 4:15 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch: I am going to "SLAM" you with information > on this one device, and then I might never respond [quoted text clipped - 205 lines] > > - Show quoted text - you obviously cannot read ... all along I have "suggested" that this is not cupping at all (which involves intact skin) but suction applied to a draining wound simple physics involved > Vultch: Here are some leads for you. Fill us in! > Cat got your tounge? [quoted text clipped - 473 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - Vultch: You keep singing a different song and you feel kind of stupid about now. A "Liars" response! I kept singing the same song! This is the way to debate if you have integrity, something you've never had. Caw! Caw! Caw! Talk! Talk! Talk! Lie! Lie! Lie! Cat got your tounge? MEOW, Paul On Feb 28, 6:25 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > you obviously cannot read ... > [quoted text clipped - 242 lines] > > - Show quoted text - no....I have since day one of this arguement (see subject header) continued to point out that what you describe is called "suction drainage"....which has existed in medicine..in various forms...for many many years it is YOU who is too dumb to realize the difference between "cupping" and suction over an open wound it is YOU who should not only feel stupid...but who cannot even conduct a scientific argument again...do not embarrass yourself further by attempting to interject such info into a discussion with a duly trained and experienced nurse last post on this subject Vultch: You keep singing a different song and you feel kind of stupid about now. A "Liars" response! I kept singing the same song! This is the way to debate if you have integrity, something you've never had. Caw! Caw! Caw! Talk! Talk! Talk! Lie! Lie! Lie! Cat got your tounge? MEOW, Paul On Feb 28, 6:25 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > you obviously cannot read ... > [quoted text clipped - 247 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: You are a "LIAR"! Prove your statements! Paul On Feb 28, 8:23 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > no....I have since day one of this arguement (see subject header) continued > to point out that what you describe is called "suction drainage"....which [quoted text clipped - 236 lines] > > - Show quoted text - yikes and start all over again?? ok...just as a hint think of nasogastric tubes with wall mounted suction bottles attached...is that cupping?? how about use of suction in the operating room (to suction up the blood and keep the field visible)...is that cupping guess by your definition it is Vultch: You are a "LIAR"! Prove your statements! Paul On Feb 28, 8:23 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > no....I have since day one of this arguement (see subject header) > continued [quoted text clipped - 241 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: A proven "Pathological Liar". This group can do without another lying allopath. CAW! CAW! CAW! Lie! Lie! Lie! PA Various Statements Made By Vultch(LIAR): btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the place where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an ancedote.. quess they didn't teach you statistics again...got a cite?? article..etc no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... any other stupid comments > cite please > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > changes the procedure > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > again...would like to read the article > thanks > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" > > are > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the place > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > ancedote.. > quess they didn't teach you statistics > again...got a cite?? article..etc > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > any other stupid comments > > cite please > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > changes the procedure > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > again...would like to read the article > > thanks > > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" > > > are > > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo probably the one you worked for name of manufacturer please?? btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment industry so yes...possible for one patient again...source?? name of company?? knew you couldn't do it > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the > place > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > ancedote.. > quess they didn't teach you statistics > again...got a cite?? article..etc > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > any other stupid comments > > cite please > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > changes the procedure > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > again...would like to read the article > > thanks > > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" > > > are > > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and > > > bloodstream...and > > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo > probably the one you worked for > name of manufacturer please?? > btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment industry > so yes...possible for one patient > again...source?? name of company?? > knew you couldn't do it > > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the > > place > > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > > ancedote.. > > quess they didn't teach you statistics > > again...got a cite?? article..etc > > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > > any other stupid comments > > > cite please > > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > > changes the procedure > > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > > again...would like to read the article > > > thanks > > > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" > > > > are > > > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and > > > > bloodstream...and > > > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team whoa...such credentials my ?? remains....WHAT manufacturer?? where is the case written up?? or did ONE doctor try it on ONE patient...and what were the results if in fact it was a biomedical device...it had to have an FDA license...which included clinical trials...etc my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do > probably the one you worked for > name of manufacturer please?? > btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment > industry > so yes...possible for one patient > again...source?? name of company?? > knew you couldn't do it > > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the > > place > > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > > ancedote.. > > quess they didn't teach you statistics > > again...got a cite?? article..etc > > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > > any other stupid comments > > > cite please > > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > > changes the procedure > > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > > again...would like to read the article > > > thanks > > > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these > > > > "toxins" > > > > are > > > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and > > > > bloodstream...and > > > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo > whoa...such credentials > my ?? remains....WHAT manufacturer?? where is the case written up?? > or did ONE doctor try it on ONE patient...and what were the results > if in fact it was a biomedical device...it had to have an FDA > license...which included clinical trials...etc > my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career > never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do > > probably the one you worked for > > name of manufacturer please?? > > btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment > > industry > > so yes...possible for one patient > > again...source?? name of company?? > > knew you couldn't do it > > > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the > > > place > > > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > > > ancedote.. > > > quess they didn't teach you statistics > > > again...got a cite?? article..etc > > > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > > > any other stupid comments > > > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > > > changes the procedure > > > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > > > again...would like to read the article > > > > thanks > > > > > getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that > > > > > matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these > > > > > "toxins" > > > > > are > > > > > brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin > > > > > as for drinking tons of water...this helps anyway... > > > > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and > > > > > bloodstream...and > > > > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... > > > > > me thinks the cupping is glorified placebo > yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team > whoa...such credentials > my ?? remains....WHAT manufacturer?? where is the case written up?? > or did ONE doctor try it on ONE patient...and what were the results > if in fact it was a biomedical device...it had to have an FDA > license...which included clinical trials...etc > my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career > never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do > > probably the one you worked for > > name of manufacturer please?? > > btw...multithousand dollars is peanuts in the biomedical equipment > > industry > > so yes...possible for one patient > > again...source?? name of company?? > > knew you couldn't do it > > > btw...a cite is the orginal article that the info comes from...NOT the > > > place > > > where perhaps ONE patient was treated this way...n of 1 is called an > > > ancedote.. > > > quess they didn't teach you statistics > > > again...got a cite?? article..etc > > > no...as a matter of fact it is a master degree in nursing..... > > > any other stupid comments > > > Caw! Caw! Caw! > > > MEOW! > > > > cite please > > > > the example quoted implies that the "skin" was already opened....which > > > > changes the procedure > > > > sorta like a drain with some suction applied > > > > again...would like to read the article > > > > thanks On Feb 28, 8:54 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > yikes > [quoted text clipped - 229 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career". Paul PS: What did your husband think of the electonic paranasal drainage methods I discovered/invented? HA! HA! HA! CAW! CAW! CAW! never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team > [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical industry executive for his entire career". Paul PS: What did your husband think of the electonic paranasal drainage methods I discovered/invented? from what I read on this "device"...(no patent or clinical trials...just your stories).... perhaps you don't know that the sinus cavities are contiguous with the brain... use too much force on sinus drainage...and you will end up with a brain infection perhaps you already have... HA! HA! HA! CAW! CAW! CAW! never pays to bullshit someone with more brains than you do On Feb 27, 7:21 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > yep...you were also a librarian and on the sanitation team > [quoted text clipped - 173 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: When you provide proof of your claimed education and proof of your biomedical exec hubby, I will get you the information that you "really don't care about". I'm not bogging down with a NUT(Vultch)! Crawfished!!!!!! Paul On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical > industry executive for his entire career". [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: When you provide proof of your claimed education and proof of your biomedical exec hubby, I will get you the information that you "really don't care about". I'm not bogging down with a NUT(Vultch)! Crawfished!!!!!! those that need to know...know ...you have no need to know what do you think I am?? crazy as you...and asking you to show up at our door?? yea right... and yeah....hubby was pres CEO of an international REAL biomedical device company....his info will also remain on a "need to know" basis... does not include crazy folks like you Paul On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > - Show quoted text - VULTCH(NUT!): Proof? Here is a lead, if you "really" want more info on high-tech cupping. I actually talked the Infection Control MD about the device I witnessed. Who's A Liar? NOT ME! Paul Versatile One, Wound Vacum system- The Versatile One is an economical, robust, and reliable suction pump that can perform almost all your wound drainage needs. From negative pressure wound therapy to thoracic suctioning. You've heard of the KCI wound VAC, now there's the Blue Sky Versatile One wound vacum system (WVS). If you're tired of dressing wounds with a sponge, you'll love the Chariker Jeter kit. Patients agree there is much less pain. Finally, there is a choice for wound drainage! Copyright (c) 2004, SkinCareManagement Link For Much More Information: http://www.scmlifeo2.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=8 On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical > industry executive for his entire career". [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > - Show quoted text - VULTCH(NUT!): Proof? Here is a lead, if you "really" want more info on high-tech cupping. I actually talked the Infection Control MD about the device I witnessed. Who's A Liar? NOT ME! this is not cupping...it is a "wound vacuum system"...which I believe I called it days ago cupping is a witchcraft type of system...the skin is intact applying vacuum to an open wound is NOT a new concept...and makes perfect sense...it is a drain attached to a suction machine.. duh... try again to find something new and interesting that involves "cupping"... remember...this takes an OPEN wound....cupping is done on intact sking apples and bananas Paul Versatile One, Wound Vacum system- The Versatile One is an economical, robust, and reliable suction pump that can perform almost all your wound drainage needs. From negative pressure wound therapy to thoracic suctioning. You've heard of the KCI wound VAC, now there's the Blue Sky Versatile One wound vacum system (WVS). If you're tired of dressing wounds with a sponge, you'll love the Chariker Jeter kit. Patients agree there is much less pain. Finally, there is a choice for wound drainage! Copyright (c) 2004, SkinCareManagement Link For Much More Information: http://www.scmlifeo2.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=8 On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch: This thread is confirmation, You Are A "Nut" and a "Liar"! Caw! Caw! Caw! PA On Feb 28, 12:36 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > VULTCH(NUT!): Proof? Here is a lead, if you "really" > want more info on high-tech cupping. I actually talked [quoted text clipped - 243 lines] > > - Show quoted text - VULTCH: "SWAMP FEVER" might explain your mental disease. CAW! CAW! CAW! PA On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical > industry executive for his entire career". [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > - Show quoted text - VULTCH: If you have never heard of post-op vacum pumps or wound care pumps, then you are/were either the world's worst nurse practitioer, a liar, delusional, or senile. I think you're a LIAR! High school drop-out! CAW! CAW! CAW! Talk! Talk! Talk! Paul On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch(NUT!): Prove it - "my hubby WAS a biomedical > industry executive for his entire career". [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > - Show quoted text - VULTCH: If you have never heard of post-op vacum pumps or wound care pumps, then you are/were either the world's worst nurse practitioer, a liar, delusional, or senile. I think you're a LIAR! High school drop-out! the vacuum pumps (learn to spell the word) have been around for a long time the subject heading refers to "cupping" when YOU understand the difference between intact skin (cupping) and open wounds...come back CAW! CAW! CAW! Talk! Talk! Talk! Paul On Feb 28, 4:17 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > - Show quoted text - NUT!(Vultch): Did you retain "Cupping A Corpse" or are you currently in a "Senile" state. You are incredibly stupid! When are you going to write a complete sentence? You can't please a "NUT". Talk! Talk! Talk! PA On Feb 28, 12:48 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > VULTCH: If you have never heard of post-op vacum pumps > or wound care pumps, then you are/were either the world's [quoted text clipped - 224 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On Feb 27, 2:58 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I have a question > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... Hawk, I didn't see your question until today--sorry about the delay in answering, and actually when I was at my conventional doctor he also had some great insight yesterday with regard to this question. The suction cups bring up the "gunk" ( as I like to refer to it) to the surface, by drinking water, it gets the waste into the bloodstream, and helps flush the stuff out of your system--via urine, poop, and through sweat. I've had the therapist remove the suction cups and there has been "sweat" on the cups and at the skin level as well. There have been times she has removed the cups (let the air out) and you could smell disgusting stuff--and times where she has removed the cups that there have been large amount of sweat in the cups and on the skin. Everyone gets their own set up cups (they are hard plastic), and they are sterilized between uses. When i was in to the conventional doctor yesterday, he was asking me how the acupuncture treatments were going--and I told him that it was really helping with my allergies as well. And we discussed the cupping. He believes in cupping as well. I hope this answers your questions. THANKS FOR the answers Bee I still have one ?? regardless of what "gunk" is brought to the surface of the skin...it is still under the skin,,,correct?? (unless Pautrey's examplel which is actually a suction machine to drain OPEN wounds...as I attempted to point out to him....once a wound is open...apllying suction to drain is indeed physiologic...and has been done for decades...perhaps his example is the only one he knows of...) On Feb 27, 2:58 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I have a question > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... Hawk, I didn't see your question until today--sorry about the delay in answering, and actually when I was at my conventional doctor he also had some great insight yesterday with regard to this question. The suction cups bring up the "gunk" ( as I like to refer to it) to the surface, by drinking water, it gets the waste into the bloodstream, and helps flush the stuff out of your system--via urine, poop, and through sweat. OK....the above I can believe...but as the skin as an intact barrier...the best you have is "gunk" in the dermal cappillaries...which is not the best way to eliminate gunk.... I've had the therapist remove the suction cups and there has been "sweat" on the cups and at the skin level as well. of course there is "sweat " on the cups....from what I have read...in order for this modality to work...the cups are "wet" prior to applying the suction...thus...yes it is still there after the cups are removed There have been times she has removed the cups (let the air out) and you could smell disgusting stuff- again....the dermal (skin) level is still intact,,,correct...what you likely smell is the usual "dirt and grime" that lives on the skin....the cups merely enhance its concentration... ie...similar to sweat being excreted (no cups needed)....take a whiff of the sweat...which BTW..is a combo of skin flora and fluid...no magic here -and times where she has removed the cups that there have been large amount of sweat in the cups and on the skin. Everyone gets their own set up cups (they are hard plastic), and they are sterilized between uses. When i was in to the conventional doctor yesterday, he was asking me how the acupuncture treatments were going--and I told him that it was really helping with my allergies as well. accupuncture I have never doubted..and have seen it work for various things... as for meridans etc...that I have a hard time with the fact that the Chinese has used such modalities for centuries...doesn't convince me that they work And we discussed the cupping. He believes in cupping as well. depends of course if your "doctor" is of the conventional type...or say a naturapathic non doctor type \ also....unfortunately...after "years treating patients"...I am astounded at what doctors will agree with if patients bring it up if you think it helps...it usually does... thanks for your reply... I hope this answers your questions. On Mar 1, 9:30 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > THANKS FOR the answers Bee > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > physiologic...and has been done for decades...perhaps his example is the > only one he knows of...) Yes, it is still under the skin. My therapist puts needles down first, and then cups over the needles most of the time; sometimes she just uses the suction cups--I've gone from only being able to tolerate 2 pumps on the suction cup gun to being able to tolerate 4-5 pumps on the suction cup gun. There are also spots on the body she would never use the suction cups--face, feet, for example. On Mar 1, 9:30 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >Hawk: accupuncture I have never doubted..and have seen it work for various > things... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the fact that the Chinese has used such modalities for centuries...doesn't > convince me that they work You know it is interesting, I didn't believe in acupuncture for a long time myself. I have a number of Asian friends that would go to the acupuncturist for headaches, etc., and swear by it. One took me dragging and kicking the entire way to an acupuncturist a number of years ago---for migraines that nothing (including prescription drugs) was helping. I haven't had a migraine to speak of in about 5 years. > And we > discussed the cupping. He believes in cupping as well. > > depends of course if your "doctor" is of the conventional type...or say a > naturapathic non doctor type Absolutely conventional-- but with a very open mind. Actually he brought it up to me first, and said that it would appear to really be helping me. We even spoke about the pharmaceutical world, and that he is really against unethical practices by the pharmaecutical world--and that they are not even allowed to take anything of any value from anyone. It depends on the number of pumps on the gun---for the different levels that the suction can get into the muscles. A therapist starts with what you can tolerate, and that was about 1 pump on the gun for myself -- I'm not up to 5 pumps in someplaces-4 in others. One pump doesn't bring "gunk" up to the surface anymore where as in the beginning it did. And sometimes it doesn't bring any red or purple marks up to the surface of the skin. > \ > Hawk: also....unfortunately...after "years treating patients"...I am astounded at > what doctors will agree with if patients bring it up > >Hawk: if you think it helps...it usually does... Actually, see above, he is the one that brought it up to me, as did his nurse. I didn't see these other comments....sorry about that!! Vultch: You are a "liar" and you are "slow". You challenged me to provide proof(wound pump) of FDA approval, manufacturer, when & where, etc. You feel so stupid, the only way you can "save face" is to "LIE"! An allopath w/ no ethics! Who would have thought? I think you are too incompetent and too stupid to have ever practiced medicine. If you did practice, it was before you became senile w/ dementia. How many patients did you induce into disability, addiction, or death? Caw! Caw! Caw! Lie! Lie! Lie! Paul On Mar 1, 11:30 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > THANKS FOR the answers Bee > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... Vultch: You are a "liar" and you are "slow". You challenged me to provide proof(wound pump) of FDA approval, manufacturer, when & where, etc. You feel so stupid, the only way you can "save face" is to "LIE"! An allopath w/ no ethics! Who would have thought? I think you are too incompetent and too stupid to have ever practiced medicine. If you did practice, it was before you became senile w/ dementia. How many patients did you induce into disability, addiction, or death? what you provided was a description of an open wound suction device this is not cupping again Paul...it is you who are mentally ill....if you cannot recognize the difference between cupping thru intact skin..and wound drainage via open wounds seems pretty simple and obvious to me Caw! Caw! Caw! Lie! Lie! Lie! Paul On Mar 1, 11:30 am, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > THANKS FOR the answers Bee > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > but more likely cuz the toxins are in the tissues and bloodstream...and > > increasing urine output MIGHT help ... Vultch: You're a pathological liar and you're insane! I clearly stated that a junkie with necrosis in his arm was treated in a hospital with a high-tech cupping device. Just prior to that statement I clearly stated a diabetic was in a hospital for gangrene infection of his feet and he had been cupping diabees related wounds. There is no lie you won't tell to "save face" and to retain what you thought was credibility(nurse prac ?; psychiatic nurse ?; gastroenterologist ?; etc ?). When: were you president?; did you go to the moon?; did you circle the earth in a hot-air balloon?; invent time travel?; perform your first brain surgery?; etc. You're a pathological liar and you're insane! Caw! Paul On Mar 1, 3:03 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Vultch: You are a "liar" and you are "slow". > You challenged me to provide proof(wound pump) of [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > - Show quoted text - sorry buddy but both examples you give involve breaks in the skin...thus suction devices would indeed work these are not examples of cupping devices...which involve intact non infection dermis I never said I was a gastroenterologist I said that as a nurse practiioner I was trained in doing GI procedures if you think oNLY docs do these...you are sadly mistaken Vultch: You're a pathological liar and you're insane! I clearly stated that a junkie with necrosis in his arm was treated in a hospital with a high-tech cupping device. Just prior to that statement I clearly stated a diabetic was in a hospital for gangrene infection of his feet and he had been cupping diabees related wounds. There is no lie you won't tell to "save face" and to retain what you thought was credibility(nurse prac ?; psychiatic nurse ?; gastroenterologist ?; etc ?). When: were you president?; did you go to the moon?; did you circle the earth in a hot-air balloon?; invent time travel?; perform your first brain surgery?; etc. You're a pathological liar and you're insane! Caw! Paul On Mar 1, 3:03 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "rpautrey2" <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Vultch(NUT!): You are a proven "Pathological Liar"! You destroyed your own credibility. When you Caw(Lie!) over-and-over again, you send a message. The only fool you are fooling, is yourself. Go join a "Neurosurgery" or "Genius" group. See if you can fool them! group! Caw! Caw! Caw! Lie! Lie! Lie! PA On Mar 2, 3:07 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > sorry buddy > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Here's a better explanation of Cupping: http://miamiorientalmedicine.com/additional.htm#cupping Bee: Thanks for the link. Maybe this excerpt from the article will allow Vultch to understand the use of negative pressure(vacuum) in medicine, low-tech or high-tech. Paul "This suction is caused by the introduction of a negative pressure using an ignited material to heat the air within the jar. As the air cools suction is created within the the cup, causing the patient's skin to be pulled into it. This vacuum causes local congestion to be moved to the surface of the body." http://miamiorientalmedicine.com/additional.htm#cupping > Here's a better explanation of Cupping: > > http://miamiorientalmedicine.com/additional.htm#cupping Vultch: Who could ever take you serious? Below is a quote you made in this thread: "getting "toxins" up to the surface is helpful how??? for that matter...cupping also is sorta witchcraft...unless once these "toxins" are brought to the surface there is some way to get them OUT of the skin" Who could ever take you serious? You're not just a liar, "You Are Insane"! Caw! Caw! Caw! Paul On Mar 2, 3:07 pm, <Hawk...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > sorry buddy > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > - Show quoted text - |
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