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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2008

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HUGE NEWS: Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Link in Federal Court!

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Ilena Rose - 26 Feb 2008 19:48 GMT
Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.

www.BreatImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm#Mark-Probert
I wonder sometimes how they can care so little about people's health
and work so hard to augment the insurance / vaccination / med device
etc. coffers.

http://ilenarose.blogspot.com/2008/02/huge-news-government-concedes-vaccine_26.html

Note from Ilena:  This is a landmark case and one to make the enormous
Vaccination Public Relations Teams go wild.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm
Mark Probert - 26 Feb 2008 20:04 GMT
> Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
> Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.

Awww...gee whillikers, Ilena, I was hoping that we could have a
serious discussion.

Ya know, a few days ago I actually said something nice about you.
Unfortunately, no one understood it, so I had to explain it several
times.

> www.BreatImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm#Mark-Probert
> I wonder sometimes how they can care so little about people's health
> and work so hard to augment the insurance / vaccination / med device
> etc. coffers.

Actually, Ilena, I do care about health. Vaccinations are mankinds
greatest triumph over disease.

You and I are old enough to remember the polio epidemics and when
Johnny wound up in an iron lung. I recall my experience with chicken
pox, and just how sick I got.

> http://ilenarose.blogspot.com/2008/02/huge-news-government-concedes-v...
>
> Note from Ilena:  This is a landmark case and one to make the enormous
> Vaccination Public Relations Teams go wild.
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm

No, we wil not go wild, simply because the decision, which I read, is
extremely limited in its scope. It does not apply to the other ~5000
cases on the docket of the Special Masters and is not a precedent for
those cases, unless the child shows a nearly similar clinical
history.
Ilena Rose - 26 Feb 2008 21:34 GMT
What did you say 'nice' about me, Mark? I've been in other worlds, not
in QuackLandia.

And since you are a proud member of the Snake-oil (Vaccination)
Vigilantes ... me sharing this information about you is merely
descriptive.

I see I wrote my link wrong:

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm#Mark-Probert
Mark Probert - 27 Feb 2008 03:02 GMT
> What did you say 'nice' about me, Mark? I've been in other worlds, not
> in QuackLandia.

There was a discussion of disgusting behavior, and I said that you
would not stoop as low as John Best, a blogger, who uses the autistic
childen of parents he disagress with to attack them. Note that Best is
so vile that even some of the more doctrinaire antivaccinationists
cannot stand him, and he was stripped of his title as a "rescue Angel"
by Generation Rescue.

> And since you are a proud member of the Snake-oil (Vaccination)
> Vigilantes ...

I am a proud member of the human race and firmly believe that
vaccination is the greatest advancement in public health. I know that
because of it, millions are alive, and not disabled, today.

me sharing this information about you is merely
> descriptive.

No, Ilena, it is not descriptive. It is an ad hominem attack, and
shows that you lack facts to back up your anti-vaccination position. I
personally benefited from being vaccinated in Vietnam. We were in an
area where plague was rampant, and no GI developed it. All GIs were
vaccinated. Unfortunately, the Vietnamese were not, and I went into a
village with a MedCAP (Medical Civil Action Program) where half the
village was dead due to plague. You cannot imagine the stench of
death, and, when I do have a bad night, this is what haunts me. Callme
what you want, it matters not. Those dead bodies count far more than
anything you can ever say.
Ilena Rose - 27 Feb 2008 17:02 GMT
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm#Mark-Probert
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/snake-oil.htm#Jeffrey-P-Utz
Though not listed with Barrett and Bowditch & Probert, this poster has
keep a steady drool of Pro-Silicone Industry / Pro-Vaccination
propaganda for around a decade.

Outstanding 'work' by the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Vigilantes!

Exactly the kind of distraction and propaganda that Eddie Bernays
would applaud!

If anyone wants to see how the Propaganda Industry began in the US ...
please, please, please watch "The Century of the Self" ... a brilliant
4 part BBC series. I watched it again this weekend ... smart brains
being used to control the masses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml

Probert and Utz and other Snake-oil Vigilantes illustrate how they
will say anything, with no regards to facts or science, and distract
in any way possible... to cover-up the emerging science of the
thimerosal / mercury and autistm connections. Utz's comments that this
autism link decision was 'legal' and not 'medical' is so absurd that
it must be brought to the forefront!

http://breastimplantawareness.blogspot.com/2008/02/huge-news-government-concedes
-vaccine_26.html


And many, many, thanks to disbarred Snake-oiler Probert ... on his
continued legal opinions on these Vaccination cases.

Thanks too, to Bee, for bringing the Century of the Self info to this
group.

With Kingpin Barrett, who calls himself 'the media' smack in the
middle of the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Team ... I too believe we see
the PR and disinformation tactics, begun with cigarette money ... and
that now merged with Vaccination, Silicone, Aspartame etc. monies.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm#Stephen-Barett

Don't have much time to respond on the Newsgroup right now ... thanks
for the good wishes I've been receiving from readers here.
Ilena Rose - 27 Feb 2008 23:27 GMT
UPDATE:
http://breastimplantawareness.blogspot.com/2008/02/congressional-democrats-to-dr
aft-bill.html

Mark Probert - 28 Feb 2008 03:57 GMT
> UPDATE:http://breastimplantawareness.blogspot.com/2008/02/congressional-demo...

Good. Unfortunately, my congresscritter will vote against it.
Ilena Rose - 28 Feb 2008 15:22 GMT
Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
www.ilenarose.blogspot.com

Myrl Jeffcoat makes a false, frequently spead claim by the Snake-oil
(Vaccination) Team. She also uses the Quackwatch Strategy of
Fearmongering. She (mis) labels the concern that many of us who
believe that there is a vast Vaccination Cover-up, 'hystrionics'.

In fact, the identical tactics covering up the dangers and burying the
studies showing connections and waging massive smear campaigns against
the doctors and scientists trying to figure out this complex medical
debacle etc.) AND the same front groups (ACSH.org (Barrett and other
Snake-oil members and their quacky groups) have been used to
disseminate positive silicone / breast implant propaganda & positive
vaccination / breast implant propaganda.

This team is listed here:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm

As far as Myrl's typical disinformation, here in California, a bill
only recently was passed (see below). Mercury continues to be used in
children's (and other human beings) flu vaccines. The lie that it has
been removed has been corrected thousands of time, and then Myrl or
another Snake-oil (Vaccination) Propagandist spreads it some more.
When it was actually removed from all the stock and never again to be
used in the other vaccinations, was very recent.

Far too recent to be scientific or making sweeping absurd
proclamations like Myrl's below.

Again, it's using the identical pseudo-science claims as in the breast
implant cover-up. Looking at women implanted for very short times and
claiming implants are 'safe.'

Myrl / Vaccination Propaganda Quote:
"It should be remembered that mercury has been removed from childhood
vaccines since 2001.  Yet the incidence of autism continues to
increase at an alarming rate.

This fact doesn't seem to quell the hystrionic performances of the
anti-vac folks in their crusade to quell protection from disease for
children world-wide!"

FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE

BLATANT PROPAGANDA

As of 2006 ... mercury is still in 'flu' vaccinations ...
This bill, with certain exemptions, would prohibit, on and after
July 1, 2006, a person who is knowingly pregnant or who is under 3
years of age from being vaccinated with a mercury-containing vaccine
or injected with a mercury-containing product that contains more than
a specified amount of mercury.  The bill would require notice to be
given to the Legislature and interested parties regarding any
exemptions and requests for exemptions.

BILL NUMBER: AB 2943    CHAPTERED
    BILL TEXT

    CHAPTER  837
    FILED WITH SECRETARY OF STATE  SEPTEMBER 28, 2004
    APPROVED BY GOVERNOR  SEPTEMBER 28, 2004
    PASSED THE ASSEMBLY  AUGUST 26, 2004
    PASSED THE SENATE  AUGUST 24, 2004
    AMENDED IN SENATE  AUGUST 19, 2004
    AMENDED IN SENATE  JULY 1, 2004
    AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY  MAY 20, 2004
    AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY  MAY 12, 2004
    AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY  APRIL 20, 2004
    AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY  APRIL 12, 2004
    AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY  APRIL 1, 2004

INTRODUCED BY   Assembly Member Pavley
  (Coauthors:  Assembly Members Jackson, Levine, and Lieber)
  (Coauthor:  Senator Romero)

                       FEBRUARY 20, 2004

  An act to add Article 9 (commencing with Section 124172) to
Chapter 3 of Part 2 of Division 106 of the Health and Safety Code,
relating to vaccinations.

    LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

  AB 2943, Pavley.  Mercury-containing vaccines.
  Existing law requires the State Department of Health Services to
maintain a program of maternal and child health.
  This bill, with certain exemptions, would prohibit, on and after
July 1, 2006, a person who is knowingly pregnant or who is under 3
years of age from being vaccinated with a mercury-containing vaccine
or injected with a mercury-containing product that contains more than
a specified amount of mercury.  The bill would require notice to be
given to the Legislature and interested parties regarding any
exemptions and requests for exemptions.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

 SECTION 1.  Article 9 (commencing with Section 124172) is added to
Chapter 3 of Part 2 of Division 106 of the Health and Safety Code, to
read:

     Article 9.  Mercury-containing Vaccines

  124172.  (a) Except for an influenza vaccine described in
subdivision (b), on and after July 1, 2006, a person who is knowingly
pregnant or who is under three years of age shall not be vaccinated
with a mercury-containing vaccine or injected with a
mercury-containing product that contains more than 0.5 micrograms of
mercury per 0.5 milliliter dose.
  (b) On and after July 1, 2006, a person who is knowingly pregnant
or who is under three years of age shall not be vaccinated with a
mercury-containing influenza vaccine that contains more than 1.0
microgram of mercury per 0.5 milliliter dose.
  (c) The Secretary of the Health and Human Services Agency may
exempt the use of a vaccine from this section if the secretary finds,
and the Governor concurs, that an actual or potential bioterrorist
incident or other actual or potential public health emergency,
including an epidemic or shortage of supply of a vaccine that would
prevent children under three years of age and knowingly pregnant
women from receiving the needed vaccine, makes necessary the
administration of a vaccine containing more mercury than the maximum
level set forth in subdivision (a), or subdivision (b) in the case of
influenza vaccine.  The exemption shall meet all of the following
conditions:
  (1) It shall not be issued for more than 12 months.
  (2) At the end of the effective period of the exemption, the
secretary may issue another exemption for up to 12 months for the
same incident or public health emergency, if the secretary makes a
determination that the exemption is necessary as set forth in this
subdivision, the Governor concurs with the exemption, and the
secretary notifies the Legislature and interested parties pursuant to
paragraphs (3), (4), and (5).
  (3) Upon issuing an exemption, the secretary and the Governor
shall, within 48 hours, notify the Legislature about the exemption
and about the secretary's findings justifying the exemption's
approval.
  (4) Upon request for an exemption, the secretary shall notify
interested parties, who have expressed their interest to the
secretary in writing, that an exemption request has been made.
  (5) Upon issuing an exemption, the secretary shall, within seven
days, notify interested parties, who have expressed their interest to
the secretary in writing, about the exemption and about the
secretary's findings justifying the exemption's approval.
Myrl - 28 Feb 2008 16:42 GMT
> Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:www.ilenarose.blogspot.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 137 lines]
> the secretary in writing, about the exemption and about the
> secretary's findings justifying the exemption's approval.

Once again it should be understood that since 2001, NO mercury is
present in the childhood vaccines which anti-vac folks tout as being
responsible for autism.  In spite of the mercury removal, autism rates
have continued to dramatically increase each year!

Myrl
http://www.webstarmagic.com/wisletter.htm
drceephd@insightbb.com - 28 Feb 2008 18:31 GMT
> Once again it should be understood that since 2001, NO mercury is
> present in the childhood vaccines which anti-vac folks tout as being
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Taken from a post by JOHN

LES INCOMPETANTS: OPEN LETTER TO THE AAP
By K. Paul Stoller, M.D.

Out of
132 million doses of the worthless1 flu vaccine for the 2007-08 flu
season,
8 million doses are Thimerosal free. That means 94% contain the full
amount
of Thimerosal.

Vaccines with "trace" amounts of Thimerosal are supposed to contain
less
than 1 microgram of mercury per 0.5 ml dose (1 microgram (ug) Hg per
0.5 ml
is the same as 2 ug Hg per ml which is the same as 2000 ug/liter.
Micrograms
per liter is parts per billion [ppb]2)
0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma cells
(Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140).
2ppb mercury = U.S. EPA limit for drinking water
(http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/index.html#mcls).
20 ppb mercury = Neurite membrane structure destroyed (Leong et al.,
Neuroreport 2001; 12: 733-37).
200 ppb mercury = level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous
waste
(http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste/mercury/regs.htm#hazwaste)
25,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in multi-dose, Hepatitis
B
vaccine vials, administered at birth from 1991-2001 in the U.S.
50,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in multi-dose DTP and
Haemophilus B vaccine vials, administered 8 times in the 1990's to
children
at 2, 4, 6, 12 and 18 months of age. Current "preservative" level
mercury in
multi-dose flu, meningococcal and tetanus (7 and older) vaccines.

And let us not forget that the vaccine manufacturers were allowed to
use up all their thimerosal vaccines in the US up to a least 2003, not
2001.  We should not forget, as well, that the thimerosal has been
"reduced" but not eliminated.
With the new flu recommendations, the fetus will be attacked and
poisoned in the womb by mercury in the flu shot.  The fetus will be
further insulted within 24 hours of birth, and continually until 18
years of age.
Does the medical monopoly have no conscience or mercy?

DrCee
You cannot poison the sick into becoming well.  Neither can you
restore health with pus and poisons.
Ilena Rose - 28 Feb 2008 18:05 GMT
Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
www.ilenarose.blogspot.com

You can repeat your lies, just like other Vaccination & Breast Implant
Flacks do a thousand times, Myrl Jeffcoat ... and they are still lies.

Myrl continues to lie for the Vaccination Industry:

"Once again it should be understood that since 2001, NO mercury is
present in the childhood vaccines which anti-vac folks tout as being
responsible for autism.  In spite of the mercury removal, autism rates
have continued to dramatically increase each year! "

FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE
Ilena Rose - 28 Feb 2008 19:08 GMT
Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
www.ilenarose.blogspot.com

You can repeat your lies, just like other Vaccination & Breast Implant
Flacks do a thousand times, Myrl Jeffcoat ... and they are still lies.

Myrl continues to lie for the Vaccination Industry:

"Once again it should be understood that since 2001, NO mercury is
present in the childhood vaccines which anti-vac folks tout as being
responsible for autism.  In spite of the mercury removal, autism rates
have continued to dramatically increase each year! "

FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimfaq.htm#q6

Manufacture in the US only of non-flu vaccinations were supposed to
have been halted in 2001 ... which means clearly that for some years
after 2001 the Vac Makers Myrl is lying for were selling and profiting
from their vaccinations with included mercury (in other than just
trace amounts.)

While Myrl and the other Snake-oil Promoters continue to lie about
this ... who benefits ? ? ? ? ?
Ilena Rose - 28 Feb 2008 22:43 GMT
Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
www.ilenarose.blogspot.com

You can repeat your lies, just like other Vaccination & Breast Implant
Flacks do a thousand times, Myrl Jeffcoat ... and they are still lies.

Myrl continues to lie for the Vaccination Industry:

"According to the CDC and most recognized sources, the year mercury
was removed from childhood vaccines was 2001."

As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
misrepresenting and confusing "manufacturer" and "distibution" while
doing the same old silicone / vaccination shuffle.

2001 was the year the Vac Makers had to stop adding it to the majority
of vaccinations ... but obviously, it would take years to get all of
their widely advertised and distributed stock out of doctors offices,
clinics, hospitals, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Further, as Dr. Jay Gordon explains in May 2005:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-gordon/vaccines-and-safety-and-a_b_1634.html

The American Academy of Pediatrics (of which I have been a member for
a quarter century) has a very cozy relationship with the vaccine
industry. Most authors and speakers in the vaccine controversy have
been paid consultants to the vaccine industry. Most of these
researchers still accept funds while commenting on the issues.

However, even the AAP has been adamant about removing mercury from
childhood vaccines. They have failed in these efforts: The flu shot
has as much mercury preservative as any shot has ever had and, up
until a few months ago it was impossible to get a mercury-free tetanus
shot.

~~~

So thank you Myrl for your quotable propaganda and misrepresentations
of the Vaccination Industry.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
Ilena Rose - 28 Feb 2008 22:59 GMT
CORRECTION:

As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
misrepresenting and confusing "MANUFACTURE " and "distibution" while
doing the same old silicone / vaccination shuffle.

Note from Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal:
www.ilenarose.blogspot.com

You can repeat your lies, just like other Vaccination & Breast Implant
Flacks do a thousand times, Myrl Jeffcoat ... and they are still lies.

Myrl continues to lie for the Vaccination Industry:

"According to the CDC and most recognized sources, the year mercury
was removed from childhood vaccines was 2001."

As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
misrepresenting and confusing "MANUFACTURE " and "distibution" while
doing the same old silicone / vaccination shuffle.

2001 was the year the Vac Makers had to stop adding it to the majority
of vaccinations ... but obviously, it would take years to get all of
their widely advertised and distributed stock out of doctors offices,
clinics, hospitals, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Further, as Dr. Jay Gordon explains in May 2005:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-gordon/vaccines-and-safety-and-a_b_1634.html

The American Academy of Pediatrics (of which I have been a member for
a quarter century) has a very cozy relationship with the vaccine
industry. Most authors and speakers in the vaccine controversy have
been paid consultants to the vaccine industry. Most of these
researchers still accept funds while commenting on the issues.

However, even the AAP has been adamant about removing mercury from
childhood vaccines. They have failed in these efforts: The flu shot
has as much mercury preservative as any shot has ever had and, up
until a few months ago it was impossible to get a mercury-free tetanus
shot.

~~~

So thank you Myrl for your quotable propaganda and misrepresentations
of the Vaccination Industry.
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
Myrl - 29 Feb 2008 02:37 GMT
> CORRECTION:
>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> So thank you Myrl for your quotable propaganda and misrepresentations
> of the Vaccination Industry.www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm

Ilena - You're a little manic for a Thursday.  I note you have
repeated the very same post several times today.  As one reader wrote
me, "Ilena's got her transmission locked in go, but has no grip on the
steering wheel, and has no idea where the brakes are.  The cliff she's
about to go over, can't be far away."

First the anti-vac folks tried to blame the vaccines that caused
childhood diseases on autism.  Since mercury was removed from them in
2001, autism has continued to increase in occurrence in children.

Ilena is attempting to throw up a huge smoke screen surrounding her
propaganda in that regard, turning her attention now to miniscule
amounts of mercury present in some flu vaccines.

Since it is usually the elderly, or those with health risks that get
the flu vaccine each year, how do you explain autism in children that
never received flu vaccines either???

The anti-vac tactics remind me of over-zealous prosecutors, who focus
on one murder suspect, and accuse the wrong person, and miss the real
culprit outright!

Wouldn't you folks out there who have autistic children, love to have
the anti-vac folks energies focused on possible real causes of autism
for a change???

For the record, I am against mandatory vaccination of children with
the flu vaccine.  I would hope that enlightened children would avoid
the hysteria surrounding vaccines, and get the facts to make wise
choices for their children's health.  Afterall, the kids are at risk,
and they can't protect themselves.
drceephd@insightbb.com - 29 Feb 2008 02:55 GMT
> First the anti-vac folks tried to blame the vaccines that caused
> childhood diseases on autism.  Since mercury was removed from them in
> 2001, autism has continued to increase in occurrence in children.

Myrl, why do you continue the lie that mercury was removed from
vaccines in 2001 when every one agrees that it did not begin until
2003, and even then the level of mercury was R E D U C E D not
eliminated.

Even today, children are getting mercury in their vaccines.

Even worse, pregnant mothers are and will be getting the sh.t in their
vaccines and the newborns will be getting it the proposed flu
vaccines.

If you are going to lie and spin the data, at least do it more
covertly.  You need to go back to propaganda school and repeat course
101, " how to lie and deceive."

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus and poisons
David Wright - 03 Mar 2008 04:22 GMT
>> First the anti-vac folks tried to blame the vaccines that caused
>> childhood diseases on autism.  Since mercury was removed from them in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>2003, and even then the level of mercury was R E D U C E D not
>eliminated.

"Everyone" does not agree to that; the mercury was removed from the
manufacturing processes by 2001 and the stocks were gone within a
couple of  years.  Naturally, you're trying to move the goalposts in a
desperate attempt to explain away why autism hasn't vanished despite
the removal of the horrible, evil thimerosal.

>Even today, children are getting mercury in their vaccines.

And far, far more in their tuna sandwiches.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at copper.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "Without Bush, what will America's schoolchildren have to look down on?"
                                                       -- Bill Maher
Mark Probert - 06 Mar 2008 02:40 GMT
> In article <74610389-0ece-4a42-b2b6-047d73700...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> And far, far more in their tuna sandwiches.

Here are the facts:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/ACIP/minutes/acip-min-feb02.doc

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ytlt43

Update on Thimerosal Issues
Doctor Roger Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide
a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M.
committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad
hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a
recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002.

However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that
statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and
Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different
course for those.

Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing
vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C.
contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P.
estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in
a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The
targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits
from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts
were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric
vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number
information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February
2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6
percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out
of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B-
Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion
that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5
microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that
most of it is pediatric.

During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-
containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5
percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any
time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of
the "voluntary exchange programs" implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to
replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free
ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following
reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing
vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after
expiration.
Jan Drew - 06 Mar 2008 05:25 GMT
On Mar 2, 11:22 pm, wri...@l1000.prodigy.net (David Wright) wrote:
> In article
> <74610389-0ece-4a42-b2b6-047d73700...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> And far, far more in their tuna sandwiches.

Here are the facts:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/ACIP/minutes/acip-min-feb02.doc

The page you requested cannot be found at this time.

It may be temporarily unavailable or it may have been removed.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ytlt43

MP Update on Thimerosal Issues
Doctor Roger Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide
a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M.
committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad
hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a
recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002.

2002 is an update??

However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that
statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and
Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different
course for those.

Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing
vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C.
contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P.
estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in
a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The
targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits
from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts
were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric
vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number
information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February
2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6
percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out
of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B-
Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion
that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5
microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that
most of it is pediatric.

During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-
containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5
percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any
time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of
the "voluntary exchange programs" implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to
replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free
ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following
reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing
vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after
expiration.
Jan Drew - 06 Mar 2008 05:43 GMT
[gmail is  96.224.239.236

OrgName:    Verizon Internet Services Inc.
OrgID:      VRIS
Address:    1880 Campus Commons Dr
City:       Reston
StateProv:  VA
PostalCode: 20191
Country:    US

Mark S. Probert exposed again]

http://talk.sheknows.com/f732/thought-someone-might-find-article-inte...

9:21 PM - Govt. Concedes Vaccine-Autism/Mito Case

Thank you, Mom (aka "Mama Mia") for posting this very important landmark
case. It shows that there is a connection between vaccines and the onset of
some forms of autism and/or mitochondrial disorders.

Mercury and other preservatives should be removed immediately from all
vaccines -- including flu vaccines. All vaccines for children and adults
should be safe and free of all mercury, preservatives, and other harmful
ingredients.

(MITOCHONDRIAL DISEASE AND AUTISM)

GOVERNMENT CONCEDES VACCINE-AUTISM CASE IN FEDERAL COURT -- NOW WHAT?

Posted February 25, 2008 | 12:42 PM (EST)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­-----

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the
onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly
conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

The unprecedented concession as filed on November 9, and sealed to protect
the plaintiff's identity. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to
the case.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine
Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and
other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health
and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases.

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines
were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases"
for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a
three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal
Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury
Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation
is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally
until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against
nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses
and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism,
including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye
contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and
"watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew
Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital
Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with
features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal
development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for
Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

In its written concession, the government said the child had a pre-existing
mitochondrial disorder that was "aggravated" by her shots, and which
ultimately resulted in an ASD diagnosis.

"The vaccinations received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an
underlying mitochondrial disorder," the concession says, "which predisposed
her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a
regressive encephalopathy with features of ASD."

This statement is good news for the girl and her family, who will now be
compensated for the lifetime of care she will require. But its implications
for the larger vaccine-autism debate, and for public health policy in
general, are not as certain.

In fact, the government's concession seems to raise more questions than it
answers.

1) Is there a connection between vaccines, mitochondrial disorders and a
diagnosis of autism, at least in some cases?

Mitochondria, you may recall from biology class, are the little powerhouses
within cells that convert food into electrical energy, partly through a
complex process called "oxidative phosphorylation." If this process is
impaired, mitochondrial disorder will ensue.

The child in this case had several markers for mitochondrial disease, which
was confirmed by muscle biopsy. Mitochondrial disease is often marked by
lethargy, poor muscle tone, poor food digestion and bowel problems,
something found in many children diagnosed with autism.

But mitochondrial disorders are rare in the general population, affecting
some 2-per-10,000 people (or just 0.2%). So with 4,900 cases filed in
Vaccine Court, this case should be the one and only, extremely rare instance
of mitochondrial disease in all the autism proceedings.

But it is not.

Mitochondrial disorders are now thought to be the most common disease
associated with ASD. Some journal articles and other analyses have estimated
that 10% to 20% of all autism cases may involve mitochondrial disorders,
which would make them one thousand times more common among people with ASD
than the general population.

Another article, published in the Journal of Child Neurology and co-authored
by Dr. Zimmerman, showed that 38% of Kennedy Krieger Institute autism
patients studied had one marker for impaired oxidative phosphorylation, and
47% had a second marker.

The authors -- who reported on a case-study of the same autism claim
conceded in Vaccine Court -- noted that "children who have
(mitochondrial-related) dysfunctional cellular energy metabolism might be
more prone to undergo autistic regression between 18 and 30 months of age if
they also have infections or immunizations at the same time."

An interesting aspect of mitochondrial disease in autism is that, with ASD,
the mitochondrial disease seems to be milder than in "classic" cases of
mitochondrial disorder. In fact, classic mitochondrial disease is almost
always inherited, either passed down by the mother through mitochondrial
DNA, or by both parents through nuclear DNA.

In autism-related mitochondrial disease, however, the disorder is not
typically found in other family members, and instead appears to be largely
of the sporadic variety, which may now account for 75% of all mitochondrial
disorders.

Meanwhile, an informal survey of seven families of children with cases
currently pending in Vaccine Court revealed that all seven showed markers
for mitochondrial dysfunction, dating back to their earliest medical tests.
The facts in all seven claims mirror the case just conceded by the
government: Normal development followed by vaccination, immediate illness,
and rapid decline culminating in an autism diagnosis.

2) With 4,900 cases pending, and more coming, will the government concede
those with underlying mitochondrial disease -- and if it not, will the Court
award compensation?

The Court will soon begin processing the 4900 cases pending before it. What
if 10% to 20% of them can demonstrate the same mitochondrial disease and
same set of facts as those in the conceded case? Would the government be
obliged to concede 500, or even 1,000 cases? What impact would that have on
public opinion? And is there enough money currently in the vaccine injury
fund to cover so many settlements?

When asked for a comment last week about the court settlement, a spokesman
for HHS furnished the following written statement:

"DVIC has reviewed the scientific information concerning the allegation that
vaccines cause autism and has found no credible evidence to support the
claim. Accordingly, in every case under the Vaccine Act, DVIC has maintained
the position that vaccines do not cause autism, and has never concluded in
any case that autism was caused by vaccination."

3) If the government is claiming that vaccines did not "cause" autism, but
instead aggravated a condition to "manifest" as autism, isn't that a very
fine distinction?

For most affected families, such linguistic gymnastics is not so important.
And even if a vaccine injury "manifested" as autism in only one case, isn't
that still a significant development worthy of informing the public?

On the other hand, perhaps what the government is claiming is that
vaccination resulted in the symptoms of autism, but not in an actual,
factually correct diagnosis of autism itself.

4) If the government is claiming that this child does NOT have autism, then
how many other children might also have something else that merely "mimics"
autism?

Is it possible that 10%-20% of the cases that we now label as "autism," are
not autism at all, but rather some previously undefined "look-alike"
syndrome that merely presents as "features" of autism?

This question gets to the heart of what autism actually is. The disorder is
defined solely as a collection of features, nothing more. If you have the
features (and the diagnosis), you have the disorder. The underlying biology
is the great unknown.

But let's say the government does determine that these kids don't have
actual "autism" (something I speculated on HuffPost a year ago). Then
shouldn't the Feds go back and test all people with ASD for impaired
oxidative phosphorylation, perhaps reclassifying many of them?

If so, will we then see "autism" cases drop by tens, if not hundreds of
thousands of people? Will there be a corresponding ascension of a newly
described disorder, perhaps something like "Vaccine Aggravated Mitochondrial
Disease with Features of ASD?"

And if this child was technically "misdiagnosed" with DSM-IV autism by Dr
Zimmerman, how does he feel about HHS doctors issuing a second opinion
re-diagnosis of his patient, whom they presumably had neither met nor
examined? (Zimmerman declined an interview).

And along those lines, aren't Bush administration officials somewhat wary of
making long-distance, retroactive diagnoses from Washington, given that the
Terry Schiavo incident has not yet faded from national memory?

5) Was this child's mitochondrial disease caused by a genetic mutation, as
the government implies, and wouldn't that have manifested as "ASD features"
anyway?

In the concession, the government notes that the patient had a "single
nucleotide change" in the mitochondrial DNA gene T2387C, implying that this
was the underlying cause of her manifested "features" of autism.

While it's true that some inherited forms of Mt disease can manifest as
developmental delays, (and even ASD in the form of Rhett Syndrome) these
forms are linked to identified genetic mutations, of which T2387C is not
involved. In fact little, if anything, is known about the function of this
particular gene.

What's more, there is no evidence that this girl, prior to vaccination,
suffered from any kind of "disorder" at all -- genetic, mitochondrial or
otherwise. Some forms of mitochondrial disease are so mild that the person
is unaware of being affected. This perfectly developing girl may have had
mitochondrial disorder at the time of vaccination, but nobody detected, or
even suspected it.

And, there is no evidence to suggest that this girl would have regressed
into symptoms consistent with a DSM-IV autism diagnosis without her
vaccinations. If there was such evidence, then why on earth would these
extremely well-funded government attorneys compensate this alleged injury in
Vaccine Court? Why wouldn't they move to dismiss, or at least fight the case
at trial?

6) What are the implications for research?

The concession raises at least two critical research questions: What are the
causes of mitochondrial dysfunction; and how could vaccines aggravate that
dysfunction to the point of "autistic features?"

While some mitochondrial disorders are clearly inherited, the "sporadic"
form is thought to account for 75% of all cases, according to the United
Mitochondrial Disease Foundation. So what causes sporadic mitochondrial
disease? "Medicines or other toxins," says the Cleveland Clinic, a leading
authority on the subject.

Use of the AIDS drug AZT, for example, can cause mitochondrial disorders by
deleting large segments of mitochondrial DNA. If that is the case, might
other exposures to drugs or toxins (i.e., thimerosal, mercury in fish, air
pollution, pesticides, live viruses) also cause sporadic mitochondrial
disease in certain subsets of children, through similar genotoxic
mechanisms?

Among the prime cellular targets of mercury are mitochondria, and
thimerosal-induced cell death has been associated with the depolarization of
mitochondrial membrane, according to the International Journal of Molecular
Medicine among several others. (Coincidently, the first case of
mitochondrial disease was diagnosed in 1959, just 15 years after the first
autism case was named, and two decades after thimerosal's introduction as a
vaccine preservative.)

Regardless of its cause, shouldn't HHS sponsor research into mitochondrial
disease and the biological mechanisms by which vaccines could aggravate the
disorder? We still do not know what it was, exactly, about this girl's
vaccines that aggravated her condition. Was it the thimerosal? The three
live viruses? The two attenuated viruses? Other ingredients like aluminum? A
combination of the above?

And of course, if vaccine injuries can aggravate Mt disease to the point of
manifesting as autism features, then what other underlying disorders or
conditions (genetic, autoimmune, allergic, etc.) might also be aggravated to
the same extent?

7) What are the implications for medicine and public health?

Should the government develop and approve new treatments for "aggravated
mitochondrial disease with ASD features?" Interestingly, many of the
treatments currently deployed in mitochondrial disease (i.e., coenzyme Q10,
vitamin B-12, lipoic acid, biotin, dietary changes, etc.) are part of the
alternative treatment regimen that many parents use on their children with
ASD.

And, if a significant minority of autism cases can be linked to
mitochondrial disease and vaccines, shouldn't these products one day carry
an FDA Black Box warning label, and shouldn't children with Mt disorders be
exempt from mandatory immunization?

8) What are the implications for the vaccine-autism debate?

It's too early to tell. But this concession could conceivably make it more
difficult for some officials to continue insisting there is "absolutely no
link" between vaccines and autism.

It also puts the Federal Government's Vaccine Court defense strategy
somewhat into jeopardy. DOJ lawyers and witnesses have argued that autism is
genetic, with no evidence to support an environmental component. And, they
insist, it's simply impossible to construct a chain of events linking
immunizations to the disorder.

Government officials may need to rethink their legal strategy, as well as
their public relations campaigns, given their own slightly contradictory
concession in this case.

9) What is the bottom line here?

The public, (including world leaders) will demand to know what is going on
inside the US Federal health establishment. Yes, as of now, n=1, a solitary
vaccine-autism concession. But what if n=10% or 20%? Who will pay to clean
up that mess?

The significance of this concession will unfortunately be fought over in the
usual, vitriolic way -- and I fully expect to be slammed for even raising
these questions. Despite that, the language of this concession cannot be
changed, or swept away.

Its key words are "aggravated" and "manifested." Without the aggravation of
the vaccines, it is uncertain that the manifestation would have occurred at
all.

When a kid with peanut allergy eats a peanut and dies, we don't say "his
underlying metabolic condition was significantly aggravated to the extent of
manifesting as an anaphylactic shock with features of death."

No, we say the peanut killed the poor boy. Remove the peanut from the
equation, and he would still be with us today.

Many people look forward to hearing more from HHS officials about why they
are settling this claim. But whatever their explanation, they cannot change
the fundamental facts of this extraordinary case:

The United State government is compensating at least one child for vaccine
injuries that resulted in a diagnosis of autism.

And that is big news, no matter how you want to say it.

NOTE: Full text of the government's statement is posted here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
February 28th, 2008
U.S. Federal Claims Court: Vaccines Caused Autism
After years of denying any link between vaccinations in children and the
onset of Autism, the U.S. Government quietly ruled in favor of a plaintiff
today - a child who regressed into autism as a result of vaccinations. While
I have never trusted shots, vaccines, or Rx pills in general, I knew
something was wrong with the disproportionate number of Autistic children in
this country compared to many other developed nations. Same for staggering
numbers of Alzheimer's, cancer, obesity, and other diseases.but that's all
information for a future post about how control of our health & wellness
(which includes food supply) has directly affected so many of these
epidemics.

A Victory for the Victim

Here is the story that came in today about the ruling, it is a great victory
for all of those who were once victimized by the Department of Health's
childhood vaccination schedule.

Case documents state that the vaccines administered to the claimant
significantly aggravated an underlying condition that ultimately led to
regressive encephalopathy and symptoms of autism.

According to official court documents, the child was developing normally
until given the vaccines, and shortly after the shots, regressed into full
autism. The child was diagnosed by nationally recognized autism medical
specialists.

For more than a decade, thousands of parents have come forward with reports
of sharp regression in their children following immunizations. The cases of
autism have dramatically spiked in the past 20 years to as many as 1 in 150
children, making it the leading childhood developmental disorder today.

The National Autism Association (NAA) sees the ruling as confirmation of
what so many parents have been saying for years. "This case echoes the
stories of thousands of children across the country. With almost 5,000
similar cases pending in vaccine court, we are confident that this is just
the first of many that will confirm what we have believed for so long,
vaccines can and do cause children to regress into autism," says Wendy
Fournier, parent and president of NAA. "We call on the Centers for Disease
Control (CDC) to acknowledge that the current vaccine schedule is not safe
for every child and as with the administration of any medicine, individual
risks and susceptibilities must be considered for each patient."

While thimerosal has been phased out of many pediatric vaccines, it is still
used in flu shots recommended for pregnant women and children. At a meeting
of the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices held yesterday at the
CDC, the committee voted to recommend annual flu shots for all children up
to the age of 18, and to date has refused to state a preference for
mercury-free vaccines.

Skip the Mercury

I don't know about you, but I think I'll pass on the flu shot, which is now
being reported to not help anyways. I also don't think my future children
need to be injected with mercury, especially at such a young age, when their
bodies are so vulnerable. It's tragic that we have allowed the Government
and the Department of Health to get by with injecting young children with
poison for so long, but this victory is huge for the family who won, and
hopefully will be instrumental in fostering change in our health policies.

http://www.hearbydesign.com/2008/02/28/us-federal-claims-court-vaccin...

February 29, 2008
Feds Admit Vaccine "Aggravated" Autism
["When a kid with peanut allergy eats a peanut and dies, we don't say 'his
underlying metabolic condition was significantly aggravated to the extent of
manifesting as an anaphylactic shock with features of death,'" he continues.
"No, we say the peanut killed the poor boy. Remove the peanut from the
equation, and he would still be with us today."]

(World Net Daily)

The federal government continues to deny a link between vaccines and autism,
but the U.S. Court of Federal Claims has ruled in favor of a child alleged
to have regressed into autism as a result of vaccinations.

Several of the vaccinations included the controversial mercury-based
preservative thimerosal, points out the National Autism Association, which
sees the ruling as confirmation of the claims of many parents.

This case echoes the stories of thousands of children across the country,"
said NAA President Wendy Fournier. "With almost 5,000 similar cases pending
in vaccine court, we are confident that this is just the first of many that
will confirm what we have believed for so long - vaccines can and do cause
children to regress into autism."
Fournier called on the Centers for Disease Control "to acknowledge that the
current vaccine schedule is not safe for every child and as with the
administration of any medicine, individual risks and susceptibilities must
be considered for each patient."

The government's unprecedented concession - filed Nov. 9 and sealed to
protect the plaintiff's identity - was obtained through individuals
unrelated to the case, said David Kirby, author of "Evidence of Harm:
Mercury in Vaccines and The Autism Epidemic, A Medical Controversy."

The concession was made by U.S. Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and
other Justice Department officials on behalf of the Department of Health and
Human Services, the defendant in all vaccine court cases.

A CDC panel, meanwhile, voted unanimously Wednesday to recommend flu shots
for all school-age children. The move would compel private insurers to cover
the costs and require the CDC to make the vaccine available to anyone who
can't afford it.

The NAA criticized the CDC decision, noting thimerosal is still found in flu
shots recommended for children and pregnant women.

Thimerosal in vaccines is suspected of causing brain damage and weakening
the immune system, making some children susceptible later to infection from
measles, mumps and rubella shots.

Kirby, writing for the Huffington Post, reported the government's written
concession said the child had a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder that was
"aggravated" by her shots and ultimately resulted in a diagnosis of autism
spectrum disorder, or ASD.

"This statement is good news for the girl and her family, who will now be
compensated for the lifetime of care she will require," Kirby writes. "But
its implications for the larger vaccine-autism debate, and for public health
policy in general, are not as certain."

The government's concession, he says, seems to raise more questions than it
answers.

The Department of Health and Human Services said its Division of Vaccine
Injury Compensation, or DVIC, "has reviewed the scientific information
concerning the allegation that vaccines cause autism and has found no
credible evidence to support the claim. Accordingly, in every case under the
Vaccine Act, DVIC has maintained the position that vaccines do not cause
autism, and has never concluded in any case that autism was caused by
vaccination."

Kirby said that for most affected families, the fine distinction between
claiming that vaccines did not "cause" autism but instead aggravated a
condition to "manifest" as autism is a fine distinction that is not so
important.

While it's too early to tell, he said, "this concession could conceivably
make it more difficult for some officials to continue insisting there is
'absolutely no link' between vaccines and autism."

It also puts the federal government's vaccine court defense strategy
somewhat into jeopardy, he said.

"DOJ lawyers and witnesses have argued that autism is genetic, with no
evidence to support an environmental component," he pointed out. "And, they
insist, it's simply impossible to construct a chain of events linking
immunizations to the disorder. Government officials may need to rethink
their legal strategy, as well as their public relations campaigns, given
their own slightly contradictory concession in this case."

The bottom line, he said, is that the public will demand to know what is
going on inside the U.S. federal health establishment.

"The significance of this concession will unfortunately be fought over in
the usual, vitriolic way - and I fully expect to be slammed for even raising
these questions," Kirby writes. "Despite that, the language of this
concession cannot be changed, or swept away."

The key words contained in the concession, he says, are "aggravated" and
"manifested."

"Without the aggravation of the vaccines, it is uncertain that the
manifestation would have occurred at all," Kirby argues.

"When a kid with peanut allergy eats a peanut and dies, we don't say 'his
underlying metabolic condition was significantly aggravated to the extent of
manifesting as an anaphylactic shock with features of death,'" he continues.
"No, we say the peanut killed the poor boy. Remove the peanut from the
equation, and he would still be with us today."

Whatever the government's further explanation, says Kirby, "they cannot
change the fundamental facts of this extraordinary case: The United State
government is compensating at least one child for vaccine injuries that
resulted in a diagnosis of autism. And that is big news, no matter how you
want to say it."

http://shankradioworldwide.typepad.com/shankradio_world_wide/2008/02/...
Mark Probert - 06 Mar 2008 02:38 GMT
On Feb 28, 9:55 pm, drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:

> > First the anti-vac folks tried to blame the vaccines that caused
> > childhood diseases on autism.  Since mercury was removed from them in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 2003, and even then the level of mercury was R E D U C E D not
> eliminated.

Hey, Not-A-Doctor Schmuckie, you are wrong, as usual.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/ACIP/minutes/acip-min-feb02.doc

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ytlt43

Update on Thimerosal Issues
Doctor Roger Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide
a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M.
committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad
hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a
recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002.

However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that
statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and
Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different
course for those.

Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing
vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C.
contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P.
estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in
a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The
targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits
from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts
were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric
vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number
information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February
2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6
percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out
of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B-
Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion
that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5
microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that
most of it is pediatric.

During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-
containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5
percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any
time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of
the "voluntary exchange programs" implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to
replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free
ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following
reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing
vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after
expiration.
D. C. Sessions - 29 Feb 2008 03:08 GMT
> The anti-vac tactics remind me of over-zealous prosecutors, who focus
> on one murder suspect, and accuse the wrong person, and miss the real
> culprit outright!

Well, think of it as redoubling their efforts despite losing
sight of their goal.

| The most important exclamation in science isn't "Eureka!" |
|    The most important exclamation is "What the BLEEP?"    |
+---------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ----------+
Mark Probert - 29 Feb 2008 02:58 GMT
> As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
> misrepresenting and confusing "MANUFACTURE " and "distibution" while
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> their widely advertised and distributed stock out of doctors offices,
> clinics, hospitals, etc. etc. etc. etc.

No, it would not. even the multi-dose vaccines had expiration dates,
and surveys found that the thimerosal containing vaccines (TCVs)were
virtually gone from the shelves by late 2002.

Only the Merchants of Disease, Disability and Death still deny that
fact.
Myrl - 29 Feb 2008 04:42 GMT
> > As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
> > misrepresenting and confusing "MANUFACTURE " and "distibution" while
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Only the Merchants of Disease, Disability and Death still deny that
> fact.

What I find so amazing is today we watched Ilena downplay any danger
the guy using coloidal silver and turning himself monstorously blue
might be experiencing.

She further stated he could use a cleanse to get rid of the
silver. . .Geeesh, and she worries about miniscule amounts of Mercury,
in the amount no greater than what's prevalent in so called "healthy"
foods, like spinich, fish, parmesan cheese.

Talk about warped and twisted mental gymnastics to support her out of
kilter and dangerous opinions.
Mark Probert - 29 Feb 2008 13:47 GMT
> > > As typical of Myrl and the Snake-oil (Vaccination) Flacks ... she is
> > > misrepresenting and confusing "MANUFACTURE " and "distibution" while
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> She further stated he could use a cleanse to get rid of the
> silver. . .

The Today show interviewed a fellow who did turn blue. He tried
cleanses, chelation, ets. and is still blue.

It is a permanent change. Looks weird.
Ilena Rose - 29 Feb 2008 02:25 GMT
UPDATE!!!!

Health Lover, Ilena Rosenthal,  applauds David Kirby and thanks him
for helping expose this covered-up document and bringing it to life.

The breast implant / vaccinations industires have long forced "gag"
orders on losing cases such as this. This stayed covered up only
around  4 months ... despite their best efforts.

May God protect him and all the rest of us exposing the real
Snake-oil ... Vaccinations.
http://ilenarose.blogspot.com

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/Snake-oil.htm
Partial List of Vaccination Propagandists seen thoughout the net ...

EXCERPT:  In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet
the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD
received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying
mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular
energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with
features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends
that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42
U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html

Below is a verbatim copy of the US Government concession filed last
November in a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims, with
the names of the family redacted. It is the subject of my post
yesterday.

Every American should read this document, and interpret for themselves
what they think their government is trying to say about the
relationship, if any, between immunizations and a diagnosis of autism
spectrum disorder.

If you feel this document suggests that some kind of link may be
possible, you might consider forwarding it to your elected
representatives for further investigation.

But, of course, if you feel that this document in no way implicates
vaccines, then let's just keep going about our business as usual and
not pay any attention to all those sick kids behind the curtain.

   IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
   OFFICE OF SPECIAL MASTERS

   CHILD, a minor,

   by her Parents and Natural Guardians,

   Petitioners,

   v.

   SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES,

   Respondent.

   RESPONDENT'S RULE 4(c) REPORT

   In accordance with RCFC, Appendix B, Vaccine Rule 4(c), the
Secretary of Health and Human Services submits the following response
to the petition for compensation filed in this case.

   FACTS

   CHILD ("CHILD") was born on December --, 1998, and weighed eight
pounds, ten ounces. Petitioners' Exhibit ("Pet. Ex.") 54 at 13. The
pregnancy was complicated by gestational diabetes. Id. at 13. CHILD
received her first Hepatitis B immunization on December 27, 1998. Pet.
Ex. 31 at 2.

   From January 26, 1999 through June 28, 1999, CHILD visited the
Pediatric Center, in Catonsville, Maryland, for well-child
examinations and minor complaints, including fever and eczema. Pet.
Ex. 31 at 5-10, 19. During this time period, she received the
following pediatric vaccinations, without incident:

   Vaccine Dates Administered

   Hep B 12/27/98; 1/26/99

   IPV 3/12/99; 4/27/99

   Hib 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99

   DTaP 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99

   Id. at 2.

   At seven months of age, CHILD was diagnosed with bilateral otitis
media. Pet. Ex. 31 at 20. In the subsequent months between July 1999
and January 2000, she had frequent bouts of otitis media, which
doctors treated with multiple antibiotics. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4. On
December 3,1999, CHILD was seen by Karl Diehn, M.D., at Ear, Nose, and
Throat Associates of the Greater Baltimore Medical Center ("ENT
Associates"). Pet. Ex. 31 at 44. Dr. Diehn recommend that CHILD
receive PE tubes for her "recurrent otitis media and serious otitis."
Id. CHILD received PE tubes in January 2000. Pet. Ex. 24 at 7. Due to
CHILD's otitis media, her mother did not allow CHILD to receive the
standard 12 and 15 month childhood immunizations. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4.

   According to the medical records, CHILD consistently met her
developmental milestones during the first eighteen months of her life.
The record of an October 5, 1999 visit to the Pediatric Center notes
that CHILD was mimicking sounds, crawling, and sitting. Pet. Ex. 31 at
9. The record of her 12-month pediatric examination notes that she was
using the words "Mom" and "Dad," pulling herself up, and cruising. Id.
at 10.

   At a July 19, 2000 pediatric visit, the pediatrician observed that
CHILD "spoke well" and was "alert and active." Pet. Ex. 31 at 11.
CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had regular bowel movements and
slept through the night. Id. At the July 19, 2000 examination, CHILD
received five vaccinations - DTaP, Hib, MMR, Varivax, and IPV. Id. at
2, 11.

   According to her mother's affidavit, CHILD developed a fever of
102.3 degrees two days after her immunizations and was lethargic,
irritable, and cried for long periods of time. Pet. Ex. 2 at 6. She
exhibited intermittent, high-pitched screaming and a decreased
response to stimuli. Id. MOM spoke with the pediatrician, who told her
that CHILD was having a normal reaction to her immunizations. Id.
According to CHILD's mother, this behavior continued over the next ten
days, and CHILD also began to arch her back when she cried. Id.

   On July 31, 2000, CHILD presented to the Pediatric Center with a
101-102 degree temperature, a diminished appetite, and small red dots
on her chest. Pet. Ex. 31 at 28. The nurse practitioner recorded that
CHILD was extremely irritable and inconsolable. Id. She was diagnosed
with a post-varicella vaccination rash. Id. at 29.

   Two months later, on September 26, 2000, CHILD returned to the
Pediatric Center with a temperature of 102 degrees, diarrhea, nasal
discharge, a reduced appetite, and pulling at her left ear. Id. at 29.
Two days later, on September 28, 2000, CHILD was again seen at the
Pediatric Center because her diarrhea continued, she was congested,
and her mother reported that CHILD was crying during urination. Id. at
32. On November 1, 2000, CHILD received bilateral PE tubes. Id. at 38.
On November 13, 2000, a physician at ENT Associates noted that CHILD
was "obviously hearing better" and her audiogram was normal. Id. at
38. On November 27, 2000, CHILD was seen at the Pediatric Center with
complaints of diarrhea, vomiting, diminished energy, fever, and a rash
on her cheek. Id. at 33. At a follow-up visit, on December 14, 2000,
the doctor noted that CHILD had a possible speech delay. Id.

   CHILD was evaluated at the Howard County Infants and Toddlers
Program, on November 17, 2000, and November 28, 2000, due to concerns
about her language development. Pet. Ex. 19 at 2, 7. The assessment
team observed deficits in CHILD's communication and social
development. Id. at 6. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had become
less responsive to verbal direction in the previous four months and
had lost some language skills. Id. At 2.

   On December 21, 2000, CHILD returned to ENT Associates because of
an obstruction in her right ear and fussiness. Pet. Ex. 31 at 39. Dr.
Grace Matesic identified a middle ear effusion and recorded that CHILD
was having some balance issues and not progressing with her speech.
Id. On December 27, 2000, CHILD visited ENT Associates, where Dr.
Grace Matesic observed that CHILD's left PE tube was obstructed with
crust. Pet. Ex. 14 at 6. The tube was replaced on January 17, 2001.
Id.

   Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, evaluated CHILD at
the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic ("Krieger
Institute"), on February 8, 2001. Pet. Ex. 25 at 1. Dr. Zimmerman
reported that after CHILD's immunizations of July 19, 2000, an
"encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired
language, eye contact, and relatedness." Id. He noted a disruption in
CHILD's sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, the
development of pica to foreign objects, and loose stools. Id. Dr.
Zimmerman observed that CHILD watched the fluorescent lights
repeatedly during the examination and

   would not make eye contact. Id. He diagnosed CHILD with
"regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic
spectrum disorder, following normal development." Id. At 2. Dr.
Zimmerman ordered genetic testing, a magnetic resonance imaging test
("MRI"), and an electroencephalogram ("EEG"). Id.

   Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD to the Krieger Institute's
Occupational Therapy Clinic and the Center for Autism and Related
Disorders ("CARDS"). Pet. Ex. 25 at 40. She was evaluated at the
Occupational Therapy Clinic by Stacey Merenstein, OTR/L, on February
23, 2001. Id. The evaluation report summarized that CHILD had deficits
in "many areas of sensory processing which decrease[d] her ability to
interpret sensory input and influence[d] her motor performance as a
result." Id. at 45. CHILD was evaluated by Alice Kau and Kelley Duff,
on May 16, 2001, at CARDS. Pet. Ex. 25 at 17. The clinicians concluded
that CHILD was developmentally delayed and demonstrated features of
autistic disorder. Id. at 22.

   CHILD returned to Dr. Zimmerman, on May 17, 2001, for a follow-up
consultation. Pet. Ex. 25 at 4. An overnight EEG, performed on April
6, 2001, showed no seizure discharges. Id. at 16. An MRI, performed on
March 14, 2001, was normal. Pet. Ex. 24 at 16. A G-band test revealed
a normal karyotype. Pet. Ex. 25 at 16. Laboratory studies, however,
strongly indicated an underlying mitochondrial disorder. Id. at 4.

   Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD for a neurogenetics consultation to
evaluate her abnormal metabolic test results. Pet. Ex. 25 at 8. CHILD
met with Dr. Richard Kelley, a specialist in neurogenetics, on May 22,
2001, at the Krieger Institute. Id. In his assessment, Dr. Kelley
affirmed that CHILD's history and lab results were consistent with "an
etiologically unexplained metabolic disorder that appear[ed] to be a
common cause of developmental regression." Id. at 7. He continued to
note that children with biochemical profiles similar to CHILD's
develop normally until sometime between the first and second year of
life when their metabolic pattern becomes apparent, at which time they
developmentally regress. Id. Dr. Kelley described this condition as
"mitochondrial PPD." Id.

   On October 4, 2001, Dr. John Schoffner, at Horizon Molecular
Medicine in Norcross, Georgia, examined CHILD to assess whether her
clinical manifestations were related to a defect in cellular
energetics. Pet. Ex. 16 at 26. After reviewing her history, Dr.
Schoffner agreed that the previous metabolic testing was "suggestive
of a defect in cellular energetics." Id. Dr. Schoffner recommended a
muscle biopsy, genetic testing, metabolic testing, and cell culture
based testing. Id. at 36. A CSF organic acids test, on January 8,
2002, displayed an increased lactate to pyruvate ratio of 28,1 which
can be seen in disorders of mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation.
Id. at 22. A muscle biopsy test for oxidative phosphorylation disease
revealed abnormal results for Type One and Three. Id. at 3. The most
prominent findings were scattered atrophic myofibers that were mostly
type one oxidative phosphorylation dependent myofibers, mild increase
in lipid in selected myofibers, and occasional myofiber with reduced
cytochrome c oxidase activity. Id. at 7. After reviewing these
laboratory results, Dr. Schoffner diagnosed CHILD with oxidative
phosphorylation disease. Id. at 3. In February 2004, a mitochondrial
DNA ("mtDNA") point mutation analysis revealed a single nucleotide
change in the 16S ribosomal RNA gene (T2387C). Id. at 11.

   CHILD returned to the Krieger Institute, on July 7, 2004, for a
follow-up evaluation with Dr. Zimmerman. Pet. Ex. 57 at 9. He reported
CHILD "had done very well" with treatment for a mitochondrial
dysfunction. Dr. Zimmerman concluded that CHILD would continue to
require services in speech, occupational, physical, and behavioral
therapy. Id.

   On April 14, 2006, CHILD was brought by ambulance to Athens
Regional Hospital and developed a tonic seizure en route. Pet. Ex. 10
at 38. An EEG showed diffuse slowing. Id. At 40. She was diagnosed
with having experienced a prolonged complex partial seizure and
transferred to Scottish Rite Hospital. Id. at 39, 44. She experienced
no more seizures while at Scottish Rite Hospital and was discharged on
the medications Trileptal and Diastal. Id. at 44. A follow-up MRI of
the brain, on June 16, 2006, was normal with evidence of a left
mastoiditis manifested by distortion of the air cells. Id. at 36. An
EEG, performed on August 15, 2006,

   showed "rhythmic epileptiform discharges in the right temporal
region and then focal slowing during a witnessed clinical seizure."
Id. At 37. CHILD continues to suffer from a seizure disorder.

   ANALYSIS

   Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation,
Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts
of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and
affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that
compensation is appropriate in this case.

   In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the
statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD
received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying
mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular
energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with
features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends
that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42
U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).

   DVIC has concluded that CHILD's complex partial seizure disorder,
with an onset of almost six years after her July 19, 2000
vaccinations, is not related to a vaccine-injury.

   Respectfully submitted,

   PETER D. KEISLER
   Assistant Attorney General

   TIMOTHY P. GARREN
   Director
   Torts Branch, Civil Division

   MARK W. ROGERS
   Deputy Director
   Torts Branch, Civil Division

   VINCENT J. MATANOSKI
   Assistant Director
   Torts Branch, Civil Division

   s/ Linda S. Renzi by s/ Lynn E. Ricciardella
   LINDA S. RENZI
   Senior Trial Counsel
   Torts Branch, Civil Division
   U.S. Department of Justice
   P.O. Box 146
   Benjamin Franklin Station
   Washington, D.C. 20044
   (202) 616-4133

   DATE: November 9, 2007
Ilena Rose - 04 Mar 2008 19:07 GMT
Regarding one of the Vaccination Lies being spread wide and far that
all mercury was removed from vaccinations in 2001 ... David Kirby
addresses that myth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/imus-in-the-morning-this_b_89775.html
DAVID: They stopped making mercury containing vaccines right around
the end of 2001 Now, this stuff goes and gets shipped into warehouses.
Then it gets into the pipeline, that's when the expiration date is
placed on it, the day it leaves the warehouse. They stocked up on
mercury containing vaccines as they were transitioning into the
mercury free formula. For those years, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and I'm
quite certain into 2004, a lot of this stuff was still sitting on
shelves.

In the meantime, we started giving the flu shot to pregnant women and
infant children, which still contains the full amount of mercury. We
never hit zero, and now we're back up.
Mark Probert - 06 Mar 2008 02:41 GMT
> Regarding one of the Vaccination Lies being spread wide and far that
> all mercury was removed from vaccinations in 2001 ... David Kirby
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> quite certain into 2004, a lot of this stuff was still sitting on
> shelves.

Davey-the-K is wrong. As usual.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/ACIP/minutes/acip-min-feb02.doc

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ytlt43

Update on Thimerosal Issues
Doctor Roger Bernier updated the committee on the progress to provide
a thimerosal-free vaccine supply in the U.S. When the I.O.M.
committee took a different approach than that of the A.C.I.P., an ad
hoc A.C.I.P. workgroup was formed in October 2000 drafted a
recommendation to cease use of these vaccines by March 31, 2002.

However, the changes in the D.T.a.P. supply delayed issuance of that
statement, and the supply is still not normal. Since the Hep B and
Hib supply is adequate, the A.C.I.P. may wish to pursue a different
course for those.

Mr. Dean Mason presented a chart of the thimerosal-containing
vaccines/toxoids in the pediatric schedule and under the C.D.C.
contract (not all of which are licensed in the U.S.). N.I.P.
estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in
a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The
targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits
from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts
were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric
vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number
information, which was verified by the manufacturers.

In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February
2002. The decline in thimerosal-containing vaccine went from 5.6
percent to 1.9%, from 33,500 doses out of 63,600; to 2,796 doses out
of 149,147. These were delineated by D.T.a.P., D.T.P., Hib, hep B-
Hib, and hep B. Hep B rose from 4.95 percent to 7.5%; the proportion
that is pediatric (10 microgram) versus adolescent versus adult (5
microgram) still requires evaluation. However, the N.I.P. thinks that
most of it is pediatric.

During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-
containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5
percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any
time since October 2001. Only 25.3% said they were aware of
the "voluntary exchange programs" implemented by G.S.K. and Merck to
replace the thimerosal-preservative vaccines with thimerosal-free
ones. Only 2.9 percent had exchanged vaccines, with the following
reasons given: unaware of the program, no thimerosal-containing
vaccines in inventory; not worth the effort; will exchange after
expiration.
Mark Probert - 28 Feb 2008 03:56 GMT
Non-factual websites deleted.

> Though not listed with Barrett and Bowditch & Probert, this poster has
> keep a steady drool of Pro-Silicone Industry / Pro-Vaccination
> propaganda for around a decade.

Incorrect. I have never, ever posted one word supporting breat
implants. An apology from you is in order.

I unabashedly support the greatest scietific advancement in public
health, i.e. vaccination.
Citizen Jimserac - 27 Feb 2008 12:54 GMT
> Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
> Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.

He's NOT TOO SWIFT on  Homeopathy
or Acupuncture either.

Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert - 27 Feb 2008 13:32 GMT
> > Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
> > Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.
>
> He's NOT TOO SWIFT on  Homeopathy
> or Acupuncture either.

I thought you did not like personal attacks? Why am I not surprised?

Do show where I have posted on accupuncture.

And, I am 100000000000000000000% correct on homeopathy.
Jeff - 27 Feb 2008 13:49 GMT
>> Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
>> Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Citizen Jimserac

Actually, he is swift on homeopathy. He realizes that using distilled
water to treat anything doesn't work and that there is no science to
back it up.

Jeff
Mark Probert - 28 Feb 2008 03:53 GMT
> >> Right on cue! Mark S Probert has long been one of the most aggressive
> >> Snake-oil (Vaccinations) Propagandists.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> water to treat anything doesn't work and that there is no science to
> back it up.

Homeopathy is very succeasful in curing dihydrogen monoxide deficiency
syndrome.
D. C. Sessions - 28 Feb 2008 11:30 GMT
> Homeopathy is very succeasful in curing dihydrogen monoxide deficiency
> syndrome.

No, because in many of its applications the diluted
preparation is then dried.

| The most important exclamation in science isn't "Eureka!" |
|    The most important exclamation is "What the BLEEP?"    |
+---------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ----------+
 
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