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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / January 2008

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Re: Many Unfavorable Drug Studies Aren't Published

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rpautrey2 - 17 Jan 2008 06:30 GMT
MSNBC.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many unfavorable drug studies aren't published
Some of those that are printed have been recast, researchers say

Reuters updated 6:09 p.m. CT, Wed., Jan. 16, 2008

BOSTON - Nearly a third of antidepressant drug studies are never
published in the medical literature and nearly all happen to show that
the drug being tested did not work, researchers reported on Wednesday.

And in some of the studies that are published, unfavorable results
have been recast to make the medicine appear more effective than it
really is, said the research team led by Erick Turner of the Oregon
Health & Science University.

Even if not deliberate, this can be bad news for patients, they wrote
in their report, published in the New England Journal of Medicine.

"Selective publication can lead doctors to make inappropriate
prescribing decisions that may not be in the best interest of their
patients and, thus, the public health," they wrote.

The idea that unfavorable test results get quietly tucked away so
nobody will see them -- sometimes call the "file drawer effect" -- has
been around for years.

The Turner team was able to study the question because the U.S. Food
and Drug Administration has a registry in which companies are supposed
to log details of their drug tests before the experiments are begun.

They could see which experiments approved by the FDA between 1987 and
2004 were ultimately publicized in the medical literature and the main
criteria the researchers planned to measure success.

"It tells you where they placed their bets before they saw the data,"
Turner said in a telephone interview.

Of the 74 studies that started for the 12 antidepressants, 38 produced
positive results for the drug. All but one of those studies were
published.

However, when it came to the 36 studies with negative or questionable
results, as assessed by the FDA, only three were published and another
11 were turned around and written as if the drug had worked.

"Not only were positive results more likely to be published, but
studies that were not positive, in our opinion, were often published
in a way that conveyed a positive outcome," said the team.

For example, of the seven negative studies done on GlaxoSmithKline's
Paxil, five were never published. The researchers found three studies
for GSK's Wellbutrin SR, but the two negative ones never reached
print.

There were five studies for Pfizer's Zoloft, but the three showing the
drug to be ineffective were not published and a fourth study, ruled as
questionable by the FDA, was written and published to make it appear
that the drug worked.

A Glaxo spokeswoman said the company posts the data from all of its
trials, positive or negative, on the Internet.

"GlaxoSmithKline agrees that public disclosure of clinical trial
results for marketed medicines is essential and fully supports
registration of all trials in progress," she said.

Pfizer was not immediately available to comment.

Turner and his colleagues did not find out who was to blame for not
publishing the studies.

Although the authors and drug company sponsors may not have submitted
the unfavorable results for publication, medical journals and their
editors may have played a role by deciding they would rather publish
favorable results.

"There's an expectation that if you get a positive result, that's what
you're supposed to do, and if you get a negative result you have
failed," said Turner. "The first impulse is to say, 'I was wrong.
Maybe I should move on to something more interesting"' so the results
may never get written up.

Copyright 2008 Reuters. Click for restrictions.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22690043/

MSN Privacy . Legal
(c) 2008 MSNBC.com
Peter Moran - 17 Jan 2008 20:32 GMT
> MSNBC.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
> MSN Privacy . Legal
> (c) 2008 MSNBC.com
By coincidence I have just sent this to the Healthfraud list,  when this
study was mentioned there.

Even from the published trials we knew that these drugs worked only
marginally better than placebo in the controlled trials. This additional
information should make us even less assured that our usual EBM
(evidence-based medicine) model allows for an easy and clear distinction
between methods that work (through intrinsic medical activity) and methods
that "work" (i.e. can serve as medicine through all the other complexities
of doctor-patient interactions, patient psychology and extraneous factors).

This is a science-based judgment. It is what the clinical trials and all
analysis of them have been telling us but we have been reluctant to accept.
It is contrary to what I myself believed ten years ago. However, I do stress
that it applies only to the investigation of treatments for certain types of
complaint, those where malleable human perceptions and psychosomatic
mechanisms play a part. That still leaves a wide range, for example cancer
patients may feel less pain or nausea through using an alternative treatment
they believe in.

This understanding has tempered my attitude towards the use of "alternative"
and unproven methods by patients and doctors.  It does not require the
belief in things that just ain't so, nor should it make us more tolerant of
claims that go beyond what placebo-type medicines are known to do.

PM
drceephd@insightbb.com - 17 Jan 2008 21:42 GMT
> > MSNBC.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

More yada yada bullshit from the spin artist Petey the Moron.

Petey the Moron is a deceiving Judas goat.  You cannot believe
anything he writes.  When presented with the truth that 446 of 450
patients were cured of Lupus by using diet in Europe, he requested
published data.  When given hundreds of peer-reviewed, published
articles in Journals like the Lancet, he ran for the hills like a dog
with its tail between its legs.  Do not believe anything this Judas
goat writes.  He is here only to lead the dumb sheeple to the
hospitals for slaughter.
Here is the link to the data:
http://gerson-research.org/docs/SauerbruchF-1951-1/index.html

http://gerson-research.org/bibliography/index.html#SauerbruchF-1951-1

DrCee
Peter Moran - 17 Jan 2008 23:26 GMT
On Jan 17, 3:32 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:

More yada yada bullshit from the spin artist Petey the Moron.

Petey the Moron is a deceiving Judas goat.  You cannot believe
anything he writes.  When presented with the truth that 446 of 450
patients were cured of Lupus by using diet in Europe, he requested
published data.  When given hundreds of peer-reviewed, published
articles in Journals like the Lancet, he ran for the hills like a dog
with its tail between its legs.  Do not believe anything this Judas
goat writes.  He is here only to lead the dumb sheeple to the
hospitals for slaughter.
Here is the link to the data:
http://gerson-research.org/docs/SauerbruchF-1951-1/index.html

http://gerson-research.org/bibliography/index.html#SauerbruchF-1951-1

DrCee

PM Actually I did respond in this somewhat forthright manner to your last
post on this matter.  Did you miss it?

You" >Tell that to the Lupus foundation, you corrupt liar and deceiver.
>Millions of people suffer today.  It is not rare and it is not curable
>for the allopathic poisoners and drug pushers.

>Uhh, Moron, I have just supplied you with over 200 references
>concerning the treatment of an incurable disease that can be cured
>with diet.

Me "You stupid, arrogant prick!  How dare you continue to abuse me like this
when it is your own abysmal ignorance of all things medical that is
generating your own confusions!   Don't you yet understand that your 1930s
source is talking about cutaneous  TB (Lupus Vulgaris),  a rare and easily
cured disease nowadays, but the Lupus foundation is talking about lupus
erythematosis, an autoimmune disease.    You even specifically referred to
the TB variety when you introduced this thread:  You said:   "Lupus ( skin
TB ) is an incurable disease for the allopaths".   That is what all my
remarks refer to.  "

I am sure the Gerson clinic will be making the same mistake,  as I know from
some correspondence with them that their present personnel are as medically
ill-informed as you.    I don't know what the normal cure rate was of
cutaneous tuberculosis in the sanatoria of the 1930s, and I am sure you
don't either.    This old medical literature is in any case rarely
trustworthy and numerous old claims did not stand the test of time.

PM
drceephd@insightbb.com - 18 Jan 2008 01:02 GMT
> <drcee...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

> I am sure the Gerson clinic will be making the same mistake,  as I know from
> some correspondence with them that their present personnel are as medically
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> PM

Let's see , "This old medical literature is in any case rarely
trustworthy and numerous old claims did not stand the test of time."

  The old literature in science has stood the test of time.  Why not
medicine?  Maybe because medicine is based upon lies and deceit.
Maybe because it is based upon a false medical paradigm?

  How can you disparage and ignore a protocol that was, and is, 98%
succesfull.?  Simply because it requires no salt...and no drugs?  This
protocol has been shown to be effective for migranes, lupus, and even
cancer.
    Sauerbruch published over 15 papers.  Hermannsdorfer published
over 10 papers.  Sprigge published 9 papers, most in the Lancet.  You
said that you had the resources to read all these papers.  Do so, or
shut up.

DrCee
Not a pharma shill ( I am not here to lie or decieve you )
Peter Moran - 18 Jan 2008 01:46 GMT
On Jan 17, 6:26 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> <drcee...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

> I am sure the Gerson clinic will be making the same mistake, as I know
> from
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> PM

Let's see , "This old medical literature is in any case rarely
trustworthy and numerous old claims did not stand the test of time."

  The old literature in science has stood the test of time.  Why not
medicine?  Maybe because medicine is based upon lies and deceit.
Maybe because it is based upon a false medical paradigm?

  How can you disparage and ignore a protocol that was, and is, 98%
succesfull.?  Simply because it requires no salt...and no drugs?  This
protocol has been shown to be effective for migranes, lupus, and even
cancer.

PM "Is"?   I call that bluff.  Let me see this contemporary data on
cutaneous TB.

I see no good reason to do so with ancient historical material when
cutaneous TB is now as rare as hen's teeth and usually curable.  Also these
old TB doctors are talking about patients in sanatoria where lots of things
went on, not just special diets.  I'll wager these are not properly
controlled trials, because these were extremely rare before the middle of
the last century.  And there is no way we can get to check anything they say
(the advantage of these old claims for quacks).

Why not talk about something worthwhile, like cancer?.  If you want to know
what looking at the *original data* tells us about the Gerson claim that the
same  diet can cure  cancer then I refer you to my web site.   Doctors do
make claims that are false, and not even supported by their own data.
Gerson calimed 50% success even in advanced cases, whereas his clinic was
unable to cure a single case with visceral disease.

http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htm
http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Gerson.htm

PM

ver 15 papers.  Hermannsdorfer published
over 10 papers.  Sprigge published 9 papers, most in the Lancet.  You
said that you had the resources to read all these papers.  Do so, or
shut up.

DrCee
Not a pharma shill ( I am not here to lie or decieve you )
drceephd@insightbb.com - 18 Jan 2008 03:09 GMT
> <drcee...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

This old medical literature is in any case rarely
> > trustworthy and numerous old claims did not stand the test of time.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> medicine?  Maybe because medicine is based upon lies and deceit.
> Maybe because it is based upon a false medical paradigm?

>    How can you disparage and ignore a protocol that was, and is, 98%
> succesfull.?  Simply because it requires no salt...and no drugs?  This
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> PM "Is"?   I call that bluff.  Let me see this contemporary data on
> cutaneous TB.

I call your huff.  Prove to us that Sauerbruch and Herrmansdorer , et
al. were incopetents and only you are the harbinger of the allopathic
truth.

> I see no good reason to do so with ancient historical material when
> cutaneous TB is now as rare as hen's teeth and usually curable.

SLE is as rare as hen's teeth?  I don't think so.

 Also these
> old TB doctors are talking about patients in sanatoria where lots of things
> went on, not just special diets.

Just what the hell went on Moron?

 I'll wager these are not properly
> controlled trials,

Well, I have given you over 200 peer reviewed journal articles to
review.  You wish to claim that all these doctors and reviewers are
incomptent, and only you are competent.  LOL

because these were extremely rare before the middle of
> the last century.  And there is no way we can get to check anything they say
> (the advantage of these old claims for quacks).

Ahh, Sauerbruch, a renowned surgeon for whom we still have the
Sauerbruch Institutue was a quack?  And we are to  believe that?

>  Why not talk about something worthwhile, like cancer?.  If you want to know
> what looking at the *original data* tells us about the Gerson claim that the
> same  diet can cure  cancer then I refer you to my web site.   Doctors do
> make claims that are false, and not even supported by their own data.
> Gerson calimed 50% success even in advanced cases, whereas his clinic was
> unable to cure a single case with visceral disease.

Let us set Gerson aside for a moment.  Let us consider the oncologists
in Japan, and Dr Van der Veck of Holland and heir results with cancer
circa year 2000.

> http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htmhttp://www.users.o
n.net/~pmoran/cancer/Gerson.htm

>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> DrCee
> Not a pharma shill ( I am not here to lie or decieve you )

Petey the Moron is a deceiving Judas goat.  You cannot believe
anything he writes.  When presented with the truth that 446 of 450
patients were cured of Lupus by using diet in Europe, he requested
published data.  When given hundreds of peer-reviewed, published
articles in Journals like the Lancet, he ran for the hills like a dog
with its tail between its legs.  Do not believe anything this Judas
goat writes.  He is here only to lead the dumb sheeple to the
hospitals for slaughter.
Here is the link to the data:
http://gerson-research.org/docs/SauerbruchF-1951-1/index.html

http://gerson-research.org/bibliography/index.html#SauerbruchF-1951-1

DrCee
Peter Moran - 18 Jan 2008 05:23 GMT
On Jan 17, 8:46 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> <drcee...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

This old medical literature is in any case rarely
> > trustworthy and numerous old claims did not stand the test of time.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> medicine? Maybe because medicine is based upon lies and deceit.
> Maybe because it is based upon a false medical paradigm?

> How can you disparage and ignore a protocol that was, and is, 98%
> succesfull.? Simply because it requires no salt...and no drugs? This
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> PM "Is"? I call that bluff. Let me see this contemporary data on
> cutaneous TB.

I call your huff.  Prove to us that Sauerbruch and Herrmansdorer , et
al. were incopetents and only you are the harbinger of the allopathic
truth.

> I see no good reason to do so with ancient historical material when
> cutaneous TB is now as rare as hen's teeth and usually curable.

SLE is as rare as hen's teeth?  I don't think so.

PM I don' know why I even talk to you.  DO you STILL not understand that
cutaneous TB ("skin TB") is mpt the same thing as SLE (Systemnic Lupus
Erythematosis)?   Do you have any idea how rare TB is today, compared to
early last century when one seventh of the world's population were said to
die of it?

PM

Also these
> old TB doctors are talking about patients in sanatoria where lots of
> things
> went on, not just special diets.

Just what the hell went on Moron?

 I'll wager these are not properly
> controlled trials,

Well, I have given you over 200 peer reviewed journal articles to
review.  You wish to claim that all these doctors and reviewers are
incomptent, and only you are competent.  LOL

because these were extremely rare before the middle of
> the last century. And there is no way we can get to check anything they
> say
> (the advantage of these old claims for quacks).

Ahh, Sauerbruch, a renowned surgeon for whom we still have the
Sauerbruch Institutue was a quack?  And we are to  believe that?

> Why not talk about something worthwhile, like cancer?. If you want to know
> what looking at the *original data* tells us about the Gerson claim that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Gerson calimed 50% success even in advanced cases, whereas his clinic was
> unable to cure a single case with visceral disease.

Let us set Gerson aside for a moment.  Let us consider the oncologists
in Japan, and Dr Van der Veck of Holland and heir results with cancer
circa year 2000.

> http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htmhttp://www.users.o
n.net/~pmoran/cancer/Gerson.htm

>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> DrCee
> Not a pharma shill ( I am not here to lie or decieve you )

Petey the Moron is a deceiving Judas goat.  You cannot believe
anything he writes.  When presented with the truth that 446 of 450
patients were cured of Lupus by using diet in Europe, he requested
published data.  When given hundreds of peer-reviewed, published
articles in Journals like the Lancet, he ran for the hills like a dog
with its tail between its legs.  Do not believe anything this Judas
goat writes.  He is here only to lead the dumb sheeple to the
hospitals for slaughter.
Here is the link to the data:
http://gerson-research.org/docs/SauerbruchF-1951-1/index.html

http://gerson-research.org/bibliography/index.html#SauerbruchF-1951-1

DrCee
Jan Drew - 19 Jan 2008 05:42 GMT
> On Jan 17, 6:26 pm, "Peter Moran" <pmo...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>> <drcee...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Alternative_studies.htm

what DO alternative methods really do?

What conventional so-called medicine could NOT do.

> http://www.users.on.net/~pmoran/cancer/Gerson.htm
>
> PM

http://www.gerson.org/g_therapy/studies.asp

http://cancer-research.net/TenCaseHistories.pdf

http://www.cancure.org/cancer_victors.htm

> ver 15 papers.  Hermannsdorfer published
> over 10 papers.  Sprigge published 9 papers, most in the Lancet.  You
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> DrCee
> Not a pharma shill ( I am not here to lie or decieve you )
rpautrey2 - 19 Jan 2008 01:29 GMT
PM: Deshool yourself! PA

> > MSNBC.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> > really is, said the research team led by Erick Turner of the Oregon
> > Health & Science University.

> This additional information should make us even less assured that our usual EBM
> (evidence-based medicine) model allows for an easy and clear distinction
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> PM
 
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