.

Good for you---why waste your time here?

 A forum like this draws too many whackos.  Case

I see you identified yourself by looking in the mirror.

Why would you want to end the cow manure--the flies are just getting
started.
This is Usenet-and I know you do not want to curtail anyone's free
speech!
Let them rock on!!

The debate was this:  There is data to suggest the suicide rate is higher
among with breast implants vs. those without.

Let's say it's true.  That then begs the question:  Is the rate higher
because of some effect of having a breast implant, or because of an
underlying condition that predisposes people who seek implants to suicidal
ideation?

That's a scientific question, not a rant.  I can easily argue both sides,
but since I know which side you'll take, I'll take the other.  Now, why
would you think that implants cause suicide?

If you can discuss this, we can have an actual discussion.  If you're going
to sling mud and post links to your website then this can't go further.  You
don't need to worry about trying to "drive me away".  I won't be here long
since no one here seems to want to discuss the issues save a few people,
like Conklin (who I have almost never agreed with), Rubin, and a few others.

So, Ilena, what say you?  Care to discuss it?  Is it an issue important to
you or not?  If so, let's have an honest discussion.

Anyone else with thoughts on this issue?

I will absolutely discuss what I believe about suicide and breast
implants.

My comments were published in the British Medical Journal and I repost
them here.

YOUR comments show ignorance and lack of skeptical thinking. You are
the kind of ignorant doctor that women in my support group tell me
about all the time ... they are told they are crazy when in fact they
are extremely ill. Dealing with ignorant physicians like yourself
(please any new readers can see his absurd comments on this thread)
can lead a woman to feel more isolated and without options. You,
Brandon C Stahl, are no medical deity. You are a frightening man and I
will see to it that your Medical School knows about your hobby here on
Usenet. (Don't bother nuking your articles ... will only make you look
worse.)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/browse_frm/thread/5976
483674ec289a/5a28c8f51dbf0202?lnk=gst&q=skeptic+sandra#5a28c8f51dbf0202

~~~~

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7388/527

Authors miss most important clue 14 March 2003

Ilena Rosenthal,
Director, Non Profit foundation
San Diego, CA 92109
Send response to journal:
Re: Authors miss most important clue

This study's authors miss the most important clue to the reasons a
disproportionately large number of women with breast implants choose
suicide.

Most breast implants fail over time, even though for decades they were
sold as a "lifetime" device.

With this extremely high rupture rate comes additional surgeries,
infections, and frequently the ultimate loss of the implant along with
breast tissue. Commonly, women suffer from the very painful
fibromyalgia and other often undefined diseases.

The denial of the medical profession as to their illnesses as well as
families experiencing their once healthy and vibrant mother, wife,
sister, or daughter now in chronic pain with no medical solution in
sight, leaves the women feeling more isolated and desperate.

She often then loses her job, her insurance, and the downward spiral
continues.

To ignore the enormous physical harm from ruptured implants and
drawing the fuzzy psychological conclusions the authors have, makes me
wonder about their open minded scientific approach to this growing
medical tragedy.

Ilena Rosenthal

Director, Humantics Foundation for Women
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

FDA Rupture Studies

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplants/extracapstudy.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplants/studies/biinterview.html

Competing interests:   Author: Breast Implants: The Myths, The Facts,
The Women Founder of Support group: Breast Implants: Recovery &
Discovery

Brandon C Stahl, fake 'skeptic' writes:

"Yeah, I read through that and didn't see anything where you explain
what I asked.

Very simply, Ilena - women who have breast implants:  How do we know
if they have pre-existing reasons for a tendency toward suicide or if
getting implants createse this tendency?

That is the question.  Can you answer it?"

Ilena Rosenthal's answer.

First, this issue is far wider than your one question. I am very
familiar with your slick-as-silicone technique out of speaking in
opposites and being deaf, dumb and blind to facts you don't want to
deal with.

Second, women who want breast implants should be screened for many
things first, in my opinion.

a. allergies / reactions to any of the many toxic ingredients.

b. any pre-disposition or current autoimmune diseases or other
immunological / neurological sensitivities.

c. financial ability to be able to afford not just the original
surgery, but all subsequent surgeries and MRI's in the future.

d. if they fully understand the downside that hundreds of thousands of
women have faced after the buy the "annuity" breast implant and all
the real long term ramifications.

Further, Brandon Stahl, you don't seem to understand what I have
written on this topic (as is your pattern) ... so I will repeat it
here.

My comments were published in the British Medical Journal and I repost
them here.

YOUR comments show ignorance and lack of skeptical thinking. You are
the kind of ignorant doctor that women in my support group tell me
about all the time ... they are told they are crazy when in fact they
are extremely ill. Dealing with ignorant physicians like yourself
(please any new readers can see his absurd comments on this thread)
can lead a woman to feel more isolated and without options. You,
Brandon C Stahl, are no medical deity. You are a frightening man and I
will see to it that your Medical School knows about your hobby here on
Usenet. (Don't bother nuking your articles ... will only make you look
worse.)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/browse_frm/thread/5976
483674ec289a/5a28c8f51dbf0202?lnk=gst&q=skeptic+sandra#5a28c8f51dbf0202

~~~~

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/326/7388/527

Authors miss most important clue 14 March 2003

Ilena Rosenthal,
Director, Non Profit foundation
San Diego, CA 92109
Send response to journal:
Re: Authors miss most important clue

This study's authors miss the most important clue to the reasons a
disproportionately large number of women with breast implants choose
suicide.

Most breast implants fail over time, even though for decades they were
sold as a "lifetime" device.

With this extremely high rupture rate comes additional surgeries,
infections, and frequently the ultimate loss of the implant along with
breast tissue. Commonly, women suffer from the very painful
fibromyalgia and other often undefined diseases.

The denial of the medical profession as to their illnesses as well as
families experiencing their once healthy and vibrant mother, wife,
sister, or daughter now in chronic pain with no medical solution in
sight, leaves the women feeling more isolated and desperate.

She often then loses her job, her insurance, and the downward spiral
continues.

To ignore the enormous physical harm from ruptured implants and
drawing the fuzzy psychological conclusions the authors have, makes me
wonder about their open minded scientific approach to this growing
medical tragedy.

Ilena Rosenthal

Director, Humantics Foundation for Women
http://www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

FDA Rupture Studies

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplants/extracapstudy.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/breastimplants/studies/biinterview.html

Competing interests:   Author: Breast Implants: The Myths, The Facts,
The Women Founder of Support group: Breast Implants: Recovery &
Discovery