Medical Forum / General / Alternative / July 2007
The MCS Opponents
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Ilena Rose - 13 Jul 2007 23:26 GMT The MCS Opponents
http://wsmcsn.s5.com/opponents.htm by Don Richard Paladin
I was the middle child of a large family. This is a unique position in family dynamics. I have always been able to see both sides of the issue. In fourth grade American History, I learned from my teacher of political fence straddlers who were called "mugwumps" because their faces were on one side of the fence and their rumps on the other side. I am a proud centrist, Mugwump. I have also learned to value all sides of an issue and to listen. It is a useful tool, being able to listen to and understand others. Often we want to polarize issues and demonize our opponents. I may not agree with the opponents of MCS; but, I do not believe they are demons.
Many of the opponents of MCS are motivated by their own level of understanding and their own personal agendas. As a teacher I learned that we all bring to our ability to understand what we have already experienced and what we have already learned. We often filter information that we relate to based upon both our experience and that with which we identify. The idea that even a centrist "mugwump" with chemical intolerance can be any more objective about the issues of chemical injury will be hard to believe. I do have a bias because I speak to my experience and understanding of my experience. I am strongly motivated by a desire to find safe alternatives to toxic chemicals that make me ill. I want others to understand my illness. There are others who are opponents of MCS who have a different set of experiences and motivations.
Those who are opponents of MCS can be characterized in two classes some of whom are in both: 1) those who really don't understand the mechanism of the disorder and genuinely feel that it is a psychological problem and 2) those who might feel there is a problem with chemically induced disorders and are afraid of the economic liabilities associated with recognition of the Toxic Induced Disorders. For the most part, most opponents fall into the category of the unaware. Unfortunately, there is also a very strong economic incentive overlay in maintaining opposition to recognition of MCS. I really do not know which category the network of pro industry, opponents of MCS experts are. It is much easier to focus upon and support a system of belief about anything if it benefits you to do so. Still, there are many in the medical and scientific community who have not accepted MCS as a valid medical disorder because it has no conventionally accepted, definitive diagnostic marker. That is a legitimate concern. However, those who are truly objective do not lobby against recognition. They do not attempt to prevent research by using a ruse of a "psychological" diagnosis to diminish and discount the individuals with a not well understood disorder.
One also must look at the associations formed by any opponents or proponents of any group. If money is a factor, as it is often in research, one must follow the money trail. When evaluating any research one must determine if the supposed experts are coming from a position which would benefit or be harmed from the hypothesis being supported by the research. One must ask on which side of an issue is the researcher. If someone is passing themselves off as an expert on any issue, one must determine whether they would benefit from maintaining their expert position if truth on the issue contradicted their belief system and view.
I have no real first hand knowledge about the players in the arena of MCS opponents except for that which I have read. I have added links to this page in order that the details of the stories of the opponents of MCS must be followed. I can only suggest a list of questions we all must have answered about the opponents of MCS recognition. There are no implications in these questions that those named are guilty of anything except acting upon their own belief systems. We all believe we are right. Learning is about recognizing and learning from our errors. There are no doubt a number of errors on our website. The objective of pursuit of truth is to resolve our problems.
Here are some questions that only those who are closely involved in the issues can answer. We do not know the answers and are not begging the question.
1. Why did Ronald Gots create Environmental Sensitivity Research Institute?
2. Did he and other proindustry groups like ACSH create their groups to create scientific misinformation (aka cigarette science) and PR for their economic supporters?
3. What is the financial and interactive association, if any, among Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch, Elizabeth Wheland of ACSH, and Cindy Richard and/or Ronald Gots of ESRI?
4. Why were groups like Stephen Barrett's Quackwatch actively lobbying against recognition of MCS?
5. Did Frank Mitchell, a board member of ESRI and former employee of ATSDR, create a very pro industry document as a consultant for ATSDR when writing the Interagency MCS Draft Report?
6. Has Ronald Gots created a network of pro-industry, anti-MCS experts to prevent recognition of MCS and to protect the economic interests of his business industry backers?
7. If one checked the oppositional research on MCS, would there be a money trail that led to an association of a network of expert witnesses against MCS?
Reference Links [The opinions and information of links below are those of the writers and not necessarily ours.]
1. Cover: Best Science Money Can Buy at http://web.cln.com/archives/charlotte/newsstand/c031498/cover11.htm 2. Corporate Manipulation of Scientific Evidence Linking Chemical Exposures at http://consumerlawpage.com/article/chemical.shtml 3. "It's All In Your Head" at http://www.speakeasy.org/wfp/08/Boeing6.html 4. "A New Mechanism of Disease?" at http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r585.html 5. Cigarette Science [Multiple Chemical Sensitivity] at http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r464.html 6. "The Junkyard Dogs of Science" athttp://www.prwatch.org/98-Q4/dogs.html 7. "Strange bedfellows: Journalists as corporate shills," by Mark Shapiro, at http://www.salon.com/media/media961022.html 8. Prime-time propagandist: Is ABC's John Stossel a reporter or a right-wing apparatchik? by David Mastio at http://www.salon.com/media/feature/2000/02/25/stossel/index.html
9. MCS R & R Press Release, ABCs John Stossel Denounced For Sending Phony Patients to Discredit Diagnosis of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity group charges Stossel with pursuing chemical industry agenda, 26 Sept 96, at http://www.mcsrr.org/pressreleases/prabc96.html
10. Mulitple Chemical Sensitivity Under Siege by Ann McCampbell, M.D. at http://www.getipm.com/personal/mcs-campbell.htm (A must READ!)
The MCS Adversaries
1. QuackWatch Home Page at http://www.familyinternet.com/quackwatch/index.html 2. Pesticide Related News Briefs athttp://www.pestlaw.com/news/index.htm 3. Environmental Sensitivities Research Institute Home Page at http://www.esri.org/ 4. Michael Fumento on pesitcides at http://fumento.com/supest.html
MCS Adversaries' articles on MCS
1. The American Council on Science and Health, Inc. (ACSH) athttp://www.acsh.org/about/index.html 2. Multiple Chemical Sensitivity ACSH at http://www.acsh.org/publications/booklets/mcs.html 3. MCS: Mis-Concern Serious by Dr. Stephen Barrett of QuackWatch (ACSH) at http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/1101/mcs.html
4. 1990 Chemical Manufacturer Association's Enviornmental Illness Briefing Paper at http://users.lanminds.com/~wilworks/books/cmaeibri.htm (Shades of the master plan - The Coalition)
5. MCS, Vol. 8, No. 3, 1994, "The chemically sensitive controverrsy," Issues of Injury, Medical Consultants Network, at http://www.mcn.com/ioi/1994/mcs.htm (An objective presentation ... worth the read)
Jan Drew - 14 Jul 2007 07:36 GMT > The MCS Opponents > [quoted text clipped - 155 lines] > http://www.mcn.com/ioi/1994/mcs.htm (An objective presentation ... > worth the read) Excellent! Except some of the links could not be found. Internet explore has a current problem.
The One True Zhen Jue - 14 Jul 2007 13:54 GMT <Ridiculous BS snipped for brevity, clarity, and fragrance>
MCS is NOT an organic disorder.
Please see recent posts by Mark Thorson & myself on this topic. The facts are in and "MCS" is clearly a psychiatric, not physiological disorder.
Do make a note of it and stop lying to the public.
Coleah - 14 Jul 2007 14:48 GMT On Jul 14, 7:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <Ridiculous BS snipped for brevity, clarity, and fragrance> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Do make a note of it and stop lying to the public. MCS is a sensitivity to multiple chemicals. Having had a 'sensitivity to multiple chemicals' which affected my breathing.....is my take:
MCS is a disorder which manifests itself physiologically. If there is no physiological reaction being manifested (and people claim that chemicals make them 'feel depressed'), then there is something psychiatric going on.
Medusa - 15 Jul 2007 02:36 GMT On Jul 14, 7:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <Ridiculous BS snipped for brevity, clarity, and fragrance> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Do make a note of it and stop lying to the public. And who are you to say MCS is a psychiatric disorder? You are the one who is trying to deceive people about it.
The it's "all in your head" copout is pure psychobabble.
Medusa
The One True Zhen Jue - 15 Jul 2007 14:16 GMT > On Jul 14, 7:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And who are you to say MCS is a psychiatric disorder? I'm just reporting the facts as they are. MCS IS a psychiatric disorder. Reread the links that Mark Thorson & I have posted.
> You are the one > who is trying to deceive people about it. That is what is known as a self-referential statement. Since you're as daft as your enabler, Jan Drew, I'll explain what that means. It means your attempted insult is really a good description of yourself.
> The it's "all in your head" copout is pure psychobabble. No, there are many disorders that are psychiatric in nature. For example, Panic Disorder. You just feel that being diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder is an insult or punishment. That speaks volumes about how you perceive & judge other mentally ill people.
The refusal to accept the scientifically validated facts is just another symptom of your psychiatric disorder. Denial will NOT help you. Getting angry at the medical industry will NOT help you. Reposting lies from Jan Drew and her ilk will NOT help you. Dr Mercola can't help you; hell he can't even keep his myths about autism straight!
The lesson of acceptance CAN help you. It is one of the hardest lessons to learn. That is because it requires being honest with oneself, letting of your anger, and accepting the world and oneself as they are.
Are you up for it or are you just going to continue to play the Conspiracy card?
> Medusa Medusa - 16 Jul 2007 01:37 GMT On Jul 15, 8:16 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm just reporting the facts as they are. MCS IS a psychiatric > disorder. Reread the links that Mark Thorson & I have posted. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as daft as your enabler, Jan Drew, I'll explain what that means. It > means your attempted insult is really a good description of yourself. Yeah, right. Poisons poison, and if you think some of the chemicals in everyday products are not poison, you are ill-informed.
> > The it's "all in your head" copout is pure psychobabble. > > No, there are many disorders that are psychiatric in nature. For > example, Panic Disorder. You just feel that being diagnosed with a > psychiatric disorder is an insult or punishment. That speaks volumes > about how you perceive & judge other mentally ill people. You don't know me at all. I do not feel that being disagnosed with a psychaitric disorder is an insult, nor do I judge those who have such a diagnosis. What angers me is being misdiagnonsed and judged by someone who knows nothing of my case or illness.
Telling me to get psychaitric help for a disorder that is an organic disease is not going to help me. Removing the toxins from my surroundings DOES help. That is the only reason I reject psychairtric help for a physical illness; if it helped, I would have no problem accepting it.
As I said, you don't know me. I was the one who practically dragged a friend to a psychaitrist when I could see she was spiralling down into a deep depression that was leading to suicide. Her family refused to see how dire her condition was; denial solved everything when you don't want to deal with the reality.
That was years and years ago; today she is doing OK, but her parents still resent me for getting her a "nutcase" label, even though, if she hadn't gotten help (through a welfare agency because she had no insurance or money) she'd probably have a "dead at age 20" label.
So, you see, I do beleive in getting psychairtric treatment when it may help.
Medusa
> The refusal to accept the scientifically validated facts is just > another symptom of your psychiatric disorder. Denial will NOT help [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Are you up for it or are you just going to continue to play the > Conspiracy card? Mark Thorson - 16 Jul 2007 02:08 GMT > The refusal to accept the scientifically validated facts is just > another symptom of your psychiatric disorder. Denial will NOT help [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Are you up for it or are you just going to continue to play the > Conspiracy card? The latter. MCS is like a religion. To consider any other explanation is to express doubt. Doubt leads to heresy, so the committed MCS "victim" will not even take the first step to doubt.
But that will not lead to resolution of the symptoms. It's like the voices heard by people with schizophrenia. Some of the people who hear these voices are resistant to the explanation that the voices are an illusion. They insist the voices are real, and often claim that satellites or cellphone towers are beaming the voices into their head for some obscure purpose. Some people have a mild enough case of schizophrenia that they can get along in society without treatment, and keep their delusion that the voices are real. But these people will not progress toward a resolution of their problem. They will not make any progress until they accept that they have a psychiatric disorder and cooperate with treatment for that disorder using therapies with a good track record of success.
Medusa - 16 Jul 2007 19:54 GMT > The latter. MCS is like a religion. To consider > any other explanation is to express doubt. > Doubt leads to heresy, so the committed MCS > "victim" will not even take the first step > to doubt. MCS like a religion? Now that would be funny if I didn't have the damn condition.
> But that will not lead to resolution of the > symptoms. It's like the voices heard by [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > using therapies with a good track record > of success. So now I have a condition like a schizophrenic patient hearing voices! Congratulations, that has to be the stupidest theory I have read yet!
I've got news for you, wise guy: there IS no psychaitric treatment for this disorder. Don't think I haven't talked to a doctor about it, either.
And, I know it will make you sorry to hear this, but over 5 years of living with a minmum of chemical exposes has made me more tolerant of toxins in the world. Now I can sit next to someone wearing "normal" scented products without getting a massive reaction. I still avoid this whenever I can, and I know I'm just another major exposure away from getting back to square one with the damn MCS. But I am getting better without any "help" from a psychaitrist.
I am really sick of arguing with people who have their heads stuck in the sand when they hear about MCS, so don't bother writing any more of your wanna-be-a-shrink bullcrap.
Medusa
Mark Thorson - 17 Jul 2007 02:13 GMT > I've got news for you, wise guy: there IS no psychaitric treatment > for this disorder. Don't think I haven't talked to a doctor about it, > either. Not in every case, but this guy was rapidly cured of his alleged MCS with an anti-depressant drug. If he had resisted therapy, he might still have MCS today. But he cooperated with conventional medicine, and his MCS vanished.
Acta Psychiatr Scand. 1997 Jul;96(1):82-3. Successful use of a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor in a patient with multiple chemical sensitivities. Andine P, Ronnback L, Jarvholm B. Department of Psychiatry, Institute of Clinical Neuroscience, Sahlgrenska University Hospital, Goteborg, Sweden.
A 53-year-old man with multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) received the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) citalopram for treatment of depression. The treatment was successful and, in parallel to the remission of the depressive symptoms, all MCS symptoms vanished. This suggests that a subgroup of MCS patients may have an atypical depression, that they should be psychiatrically evaluated, and that antidepressive pharmacological treatment may be considered in cases of MCS.
Jan Drew - 17 Jul 2007 06:45 GMT "Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net> harassed as usual:
>> I've got news for you, wise guy: there IS no psychaitric treatment >> for this disorder. Don't think I haven't talked to a doctor about it, >> either. > > Acta Psychiatr Scand. 1997 Jul;96 Definte clue.
http://www.conservativeusa.org/psych-fraud.htm
http://www.adhdfraud.org/history_of_the_fraud_of_biological_psychiatry.htm
http://www.itsaruby.com/Psych%20Truth.htm
Websites Exposing Psychiatry
a.. Citizen's Commission on Human Rights b.. Fight for Kids c.. The Antipsychiatry Coalition d.. Psych Drug Truth e.. Psych Assault f.. The Dark Side of Psychiatry g.. PsychCrime.org h.. Psychiatric Drug Facts i.. Death From Ritalin - The Truth Behind ADHD j.. Wildest Colt Resources k.. StopShrinks.org l.. International Coalition For Drug Awareness m.. NoPsychs.org n.. Psychbusters Network o.. This Way Lies Ruin "If the race is to be freed from its crippling burden of good and evil, it must be psychiatrists who take the original responsibility." (G. Brock Chisholm, past president, World Federation for Mental Health)
Articles on Psychiatry
a.. The Drugging of our Children b.. Why Psychiatric Drugs are Always Bad c.. 25 Good Reasons Why Psychiatry Must Be Abolished d.. No Proof Mental Illness Rooted in Biology e.. Notes on Psychiatric Fascism f.. On Ritalin and "Hyperactivity Disorder" g.. Informed Consent and the Psychiatric Drugging of Children h.. Does ADHD Even Exist? The Ritalin Sham i.. Prescription Drugs May Trigger Killings j.. Drugging our Children The Legal Way k.. Doctors Say there is No ADD Test l.. ADHD Facts "...In numbers unmatched in any part of the world, U.S. school children are diagnosed and drugged in a quid pro quo association between education and for-profit psychiatry and psychology. Labeled "brain-diseased", the schools have an excuse for the rampant illiteracy and unpreparedness, cause enough for the mounting unhappiness and failure of the children, while psychiatry/psychology gains lifetime patients. (Thomas Armstrong, Ph.D. educator and psychologist)
The War Against Children of Color: Psychiatry Targets Inner-City Youth
Dr. Dre - 18 Jul 2007 05:59 GMT > "Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net> harassed as usual: > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > The War Against Children of Color: Psychiatry Targets Inner-City Youth Thanks for the links, Jan.
 Signature http://geocities.com/drdre5478965/
Jan Drew - 17 Jul 2007 06:28 GMT >> The latter. MCS is like a religion. To consider >> any other explanation is to express doubt. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Medusa Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says.
BEWARE!! Mark Thorson makes libellous statements and then retracts same when faced with law suits.Being a slow learner he will always do this until he converts to Falun Dafa. Rod
Medusa - 17 Jul 2007 19:44 GMT > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. Thanks, Jan. I've decided not to take anything he says seriously anymore. He's beginning to sound like he's swallowed the chemical industry's propaganda, hool, line, and sinker.
Medusa
Mark Thorson - 17 Jul 2007 20:06 GMT > > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. > > Thanks, Jan. I've decided not to take anything he says seriously > anymore. He's beginning to sound like he's swallowed the chemical > industry's propaganda, hool, line, and sinker. No, I get my facts from the peer-reviewed scientific research literature, not charlatans trying to exploit and exacerbate the suffering of people for profit.
Jan is a classic example of a victim of these scammers. She's got lots invested in her beliefs, as do you.
For her to accept any other explanation for her perceived problems would mean admitting that she's wasted years and much money on nothing. It's easier for her to cling to her beliefs than accept that.
You get the future you deserve. If you want to spend the rest of your life stewing in your condition, perhaps that's the best thing for you. You wouldn't have to change your beliefs. You wouldn't have to admit wasting a big piece of your life. You could proudly struggle on, content in the "knowledge" that you are a victim. You might be happier that way. It's your choice.
Coleah - 19 Jul 2007 05:31 GMT > > > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > you are a victim. You might be happier that way. > It's your choice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark, that was excellent. It may sound harsh to some folks, however it can apply to many different areas or events in life that bog people down and keep them 'stuck'.
I had a personal event in my life that had me stuck in victim-mode. I had 'my story' about it down to a broken-record rendition that played my 'victim' story over and over to anyone who would listen. It took someone like you to point out that the more I stayed stuck replaying my part as a victim, the more I was held back from moving on with life to better things.
That was not to say that my experience was not real, or that I had not been a victim (in my point of view). It meant I didn't need to be haunted or stuck with a negative position that was killing me. Healing begins when a person is willing to transform whatever 'it' is. Illness is painted black, wears cement overshoes and hangs heavy around a neck like an albatrose.
Thank you for sharing.
The One True Zhen Jue - 19 Jul 2007 19:43 GMT > > > > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thank you, Coleah, for sharing!
Medusa - 19 Jul 2007 22:01 GMT > Mark, that was excellent. It may sound harsh to some folks, however > it can apply to many different areas or events in life that bog people [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > my part as a victim, the more I was held back from moving on with life > to better things. I don't know what your "story" is, but I am not a "victim." I am a survivor and a fighter.
Just as the pilot of a plane who survives a crash must get back into the pilot's seat ASAP, someone with MCS must get back into the real world, armed with defenses like a charcoal face mask, but out among the "normals" who are not bothered by chemicals and use them without a thought. Another defense is an exit plan. If someone reeking of a chemical fragrance enters a train car I'm riding on, I am sitting near the door and change cars.
> That was not to say that my experience was not real, or that I had not > been a victim (in my point of view). It meant I didn't need to be > haunted or stuck with a negative position that was killing me. > Healing begins when a person is willing to transform whatever 'it' > is. Illness is painted black, wears cement overshoes and hangs heavy > around a neck like an albatrose. Illness IS like a black albatross wearing cement overshoes hanging around your neck. The solution? Learn hope to cope with it; develop stronger neck muscles or get a sling to hold the albatross you must bear.
You cannot "transform" an illness away, or are you one of those who believes illnesses can be "thought" away? I feel sorry for people like this. One of my relatives died of skin cancer that started out as a small spot on his face. All the imaging and praying he did would not get rid of that cancer; it grew, became malignant, spread throughtout his body, and killed him. At the start, simple surgery would have cut out the spot.
I will survive this without going into a "victim" frame of mind. I do everything I want to do. "Damn the torpedoes" is my motto.
Medusa
The One True Zhen Jue - 20 Jul 2007 00:21 GMT > > Mark, that was excellent. It may sound harsh to some folks, however > > it can apply to many different areas or events in life that bog people [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > throughtout his body, and killed him. At the start, simple surgery > would have cut out the spot. Medusa, you are partly right, a person cannot transform an ORGANIC illness away. Cancer is far too serious to ignore or to treat with quackery. Problems that are not organic MAY be transformed. It has happened to many people, including Coleah.
The point they made and that I heartily endorse is tha You need to discuss your conditions and symptoms. You need to analyze how you feel and vent your frustrations. After you've done that, try to move on. At some point, you are just rehearsing, rehashing, and reliving it. At that point, you are feeding the demon and you're feeding it a lot of energy. Its the same principle as throwing good money after bad.
> I will survive this without going into a "victim" frame of mind. I do > everything I want to do. "Damn the torpedoes" is my motto. Good! Don't give up, and don't remain attached to the label you've adopted.
> Medusa Coleah - 20 Jul 2007 04:02 GMT On Jul 19, 6:21 pm, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Mark, that was excellent. It may sound harsh to some folks, however > > > it can apply to many different areas or events in life that bog people [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > lot of energy. Its the same principle as throwing good money after > bad. Exactly. People who are not 'stuck in an unhealthy victim mode' certainly don't transform the illness (or situation) away. They transform the way they 'hold' the experience. Being a victim has its payoff from the rehashing and reliving, over and over. They get to stay 'stuck' in misery, self pity and most likely holding negative energy inside about some thing or someone attached to their story.
Transforming is giving away the attachment to any negative energy, about whatever 'it' is. That part is not easy.
Jan Drew - 20 Jul 2007 15:04 GMT <Andrew_Kingoff@yahoo.com> wrote >
> Good! Don't give up, and don't remain attached to the label you've > adopted. That should read the label the lying *gang* has pronounced.
>> Medusa The One True Zhen Jue - 20 Jul 2007 17:47 GMT > <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote > > > > Good! Don't give up, and don't remain attached to the label you've > > adopted. > > That should read the label the lying *gang* has pronounced. No, Jan, its the label on the brand of cigarettes you chain smoke. You come here and post about the dangers of safe, effective, FDA approved sugar subsitutes while you suck tar & nicotine into your lungs. Keep smoking, Jan!
> >> Medusa- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Coleah - 20 Jul 2007 19:30 GMT > > <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > - Show quoted text - True story? I had no idea that Jan was a smoker. If you are Jan, do whatever it takes to quit (even if you may gain unwanted weight from the process). You will feel so much better.
Jan Drew - 20 Jul 2007 15:00 GMT Oh, looky...Coleah is actally using HER IPS and not Coleah@ilena-rosenthal.com
Hmmm.
>> > > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> research literature, not charlatans trying to exploit >> and exacerbate the suffering of people for profit. Literature form Quack Barrett.
>> Jan is a classic example of a victim of these scammers. >> She's got lots invested in her beliefs, as do you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> wasted years and much money on nothing. It's easier >> for her to cling to her beliefs than accept that. Chalk that up as another lie.
>> You get the future you deserve. If you want to >> spend the rest of your life stewing in your condition, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> you are a victim. You might be happier that way. >> It's your choice. The only part of my life that was wasted was searching and suffering for an answer for my health problem. Needlessly,..because of the LIES of *organized medicine*. Which is exactly whatMark Thorson posts. He is more conerned about being a good little lackey for Quack Quack, than suffering people. While he works in Silicon Valley. No wonder he denies MCS.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mark, that was excellent. Sadly, Coleah thinks lies are excellent. Must be why she joins the *gang* in posting them.
It may sound harsh to some folks, however
> it can apply to many different areas or events in life that bog people > down and keep them 'stuck'. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Thank you for sharing. Coleah's experince was indeed very real. Pictures don't lie. When they were posted I stated how very brave and said God Bless you Coleah.
Only the true honest posters' here are capable of doing so.
Medusa - 18 Jul 2007 22:45 GMT > Best to not believe a word Mark Thorson says. I don't, now that he has revealed himself for what he is.
Thanks for posting this.
Medusa
bobandcarole - 24 Jul 2007 15:10 GMT On Jul 19, 6:07 pm, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> with the store bought tits wrote:
> On Jul 19, 2:07 pm, The Belly Bionic <bellybio...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yeah, and now I must look like an idiot on one Googlegroup Honey you look like an idiot anywhere you post.
ScottyFLL - 24 Jul 2007 15:35 GMT > But I'm not fat LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Jun 18, 11:59 am, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm college educated LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Medusa - 24 Jul 2007 21:49 GMT > On Jul 19, 6:07 pm, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> with the > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Honey you look like an idiot anywhere you post. You make me and most people look like a geniuses.
Now crawl back into your cave.
Medusa
Dionisio - 25 Jul 2007 00:38 GMT >>Yeah, and now I must look like an idiot on one Googlegroup > > Honey you look like an idiot anywhere you post. Look her in the eyes when you say that.
<ducks>
 Signature And the Thought of the Moment (TM) is:
If you cook a cow, it turns into "beef." Pop a pig in the oven and you've got "pork." Serving up some deer? No you're not! That's "venison." Chow down on some sheep and you're eating "mutton," or "lamb." But, if you plunk a chicken into a deep fryer, it remains "chicken." Why?
(Brought to you by SigChanger. http://www.phranc.nl)
ironjustice@aol.com - 16 Jul 2007 15:37 GMT >> On Jul 15, 6:16 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: The facts are in and "MCS" is clearly a psychiatric, not physiological disorder. <<
Seeing that you like to use .. science .. as one of your .. guides .. how do you think .. iron .. in these studies .. fit .. in the .. science .. end of this .. hypothesis .. ?
If iron makes a .. **difference** .. then the whole .. psychiatric 'deal' .. flies .. like the proverbial .. dodo ..
<<snip>> chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to cause porphyria in susceptible individuals. <<snip>>
<<snip>> test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** <<snip>>
Uroporphyria induced by 5-aminolaevulinic acid alone in Ahrd SWR mice. Constantin D, Francis JE, Akhtar RA, Clothier B, Smith AG Biochem Pharmacol. 1996 Nov 8; 52(9): 1407-13
In mice, depression of hepatic uroporphyrinogen decarboxylase (UROD) leading to porphyrin accumulation (uroporphyria) occurs with chlorinated ligands of the aryl hydrocarbon (AH) receptor especially after iron overload. However, in the absence of chlorinated ligands, iron itself will eventually cause uroporphyria, but this response is not associated with the Ahr genotype. These effects are potentiated by administration of the haem precursor 5-aminolaevulinate (ALA). The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of ALA alone. Prolonged administration of 2 mg ALA/mL in the drinking water to SWR mice also led to decarboxylase insufficiency (11% of control) and uroporphyria by 8 weeks, whereas DBA/2 mice did not show reduced enzyme activity. Both strains are considered AH nonresponsive and analysis of the Ahr gene using restriction fragment length polymorphism was consistent with SWR, like DBA/2, possessing the Ahrd allele. Exposure of isolated hepatocytes to ALA (150-500 microM) for up to 48 hr showed a significant accumulation of both uroporphyrin and coproporphyrin in the medium, which for uroporphyrin particularly was significantly greater with SWR than with DBA/2 cells. Basal in vivo CYP1A2 activity, measured as microsomal methoxyresorufin dealkylation, was significantly greater in SWR than in DBA/2 mice (1.3-fold), but it was unclear whether this was sufficient to explain the marked difference in sensitivities of the two strains. Despite SWR mice being AH nonresponsive, uroporphyria and decarboxylase depression after an initial iron overload and ALA for 3 weeks were greatly potentiated by a single dose (100 mg/kg) of hexachlorobenzene (a weak AH ligand). The results demonstrate that there is a genetic difference in mice independent of the Ahr genotype and response to iron, which influences the susceptibility to ALA-induced uroporphyria. Thus chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to cause porphyria in susceptible individuals.
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Multiple Chemical Sensitivitity (MCS)Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is the name given to a syndrome in which a ... test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** content in urine and stool samples. ... www.ei-resource.org/mcs.asp - 87k - Dec 25, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
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<<snip>> ascorbate suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at low, but not high hepatic iron levels <<snip>>
Effect of iron and ascorbate on uroporphyria in ascorbate-requiring mice as a model for porphyria cutanea tarda. Gorman N, Zaharia A, Trask HS, Szakacs JG, Jacobs NJ, Jacobs JM, Balestra D, Sinclair JF, Sinclair PR Hepatology. 2006 Dec 22; 45(1): 187-194
Excess hepatic iron is known to enhance both porphyria cutanea tarda (PCT) and experimental uroporphyria. Since previous studies have suggested a role for ascorbate (AA) in suppressing uroporphyria in AA-requiring rats (in the absence of excess iron), the present study investigated whether AA could suppress uroporphyria produced by excess hepatic iron. Hepatic URO accumulation was produced in AA-requiring Gulo(-/-) mice by treatment with 3,3',4,4',5-pentachlorbiphenyl, an inducer of CYP1A2, and 5-aminolevulinic acid. Mice were administered either sufficient AA (1000 ppm) in the drinking water to maintain near normal hepatic AA levels or a lower intake (75 ppm) that resulted in 70
% lower hepatic AA levels. The higher AA intake suppressed hepatic URO accumulation in the absence of administered iron, but not when iron dextran (300-500 mg Fe/kg) was administered. This effect of iron was not due to hepatic AA depletion since hepatic AA content was not decreased. The effect of iron to prevent AA suppression of hepatic URO accumulation was not observed until a high hepatic iron threshold was exceeded. At both low and high AA intakes, hepatic malondialdehyde (MDA), an indicator of oxidative stress, was increased three-fold by high doses of iron dextran. MDA was considerably increased even at low iron dextran doses, but without any increase in URO accumulation. The level of hepatic CYP1A2 was unaffected by either AA intake. Conclusion:
In this mouse model of PCT, AA suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at low, but not high hepatic iron levels. These results may have implications for the management of PCT. (HEPATOLOGY 2007;45:187-194.).
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The iron loading diseases .. hemochromatosis and hepatitis C .. may CAUSE .. porphyria ..
Sooo .. eating .. meat .. that highly absorbable form of iron FOUND in meat .. then raises iron levels .. and therefore may CAUSE .. porphyria.
http://exchange.healthwell.com/news.cfm?news=1746
<<snip>> "it is probable that a chronically high intake of heme iron can lead to high body iron stores and thus may elevate the risk of diabetes," the authors said. " <<snip>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria
<<snip>> Some liver diseases may cause porphyria even in the absence of genetic predisposition. These include hemochromatosis and hepatitis C. Treatment of iron overload may be required. <<snip>>
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
The One True Zhen Jue - 16 Jul 2007 17:26 GMT On Jul 16, 10:37 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 15, 6:16 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: The facts are in and "MCS" is clearly a psychiatric, not physiological > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > how do you think .. iron .. in these studies .. fit .. in the .. > science .. end of this .. hypothesis .. ? Its irrelevant; Iron is a (rusty?) red herring.
> If iron makes a .. **difference** .. then the whole .. psychiatric > 'deal' .. flies .. like the proverbial .. dodo .. Your posts .. smell like actual .. Doo-Doo ..
Coleah - 16 Jul 2007 17:37 GMT On Jul 16, 9:37 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 15, 6:16 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote: The facts are in and "MCS" is clearly a psychiatric, not physiological > [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I actually have an interest in porphyria cutanea tarda, but couldn't follow what you presented here with some type of regard to MCS. Sorry.
Alan_K_FL@yahoo.com - 16 Jul 2007 10:25 GMT On Jul 14, 5:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <Ridiculous BS snipped for brevity, clarity, and fragrance> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The facts are in and "MCS" is clearly a psychiatric, not physiological > disorder. To which facts, specifically, are you referring?
I read a link you posted, and it did not show what you claim.
The One True Zhen Jue - 16 Jul 2007 12:44 GMT On Jul 16, 5:25 am, Alan_K...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I read a link you posted, and it did not show what you claim. Sure it did. Perhaps you were looking for something that said "MCS" = Psychiatric, Dude! Since you are unfamiliar with how grow-ups discuss medical conditions, let me point you back in the right direction. Reread this part of the article and all of Mark Thorson's recent posts on the topic. You'll find that replicated, controlled studies show the true nature of this condition; that it is NOT an organic disorder.
It seems as if you (and a few others) think that we are underrating MCS. Its almost as if you guys are die-hard Green Bay fans who feel that their team isn't getting its proper measure of respect. I consider MCS a serious problem, just like Panic disorder or Paranoia. Its not an insult to view Panic disorder as non-organic. We are not "down-sizing" MCS, we are merely reporting the facts that it have been shown in replicated studies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_chemical_sensitivity#Psychological_causes
Psychological causes Several mechanisms for psychological etiology have been proposed including theories based on stress, Pavlovian conditioning, or misdiagnoses of an underlying mental illness. Behavior exhibited by MCS sufferers may reflect broader sociological fears about industrial pollution.[25]
It's difficult to differentiate psychological and physiological etiologies of MCS because substances used to test for sensitivity can often be detected by scent. Odor cues make double blind studies of MCS patients difficult, and scents might provoke a psychosomatic response. Research by Dr Mariko Saito et al from the Department of Psychosomatic Medicine at the University of Tokyo in 2005 found that patients only experienced symptoms when they themselves initiated the challenge tests. When they were given random prompts, there was no difference between MCS patients and controls in terms of physical and psychologic symptoms.[26] Their conclusion was "MCS patients do not have either somatic or psychologic symptoms under chemical-free conditions, and symptoms may be provoked only when exposed to chemicals," although their results showed that it was not the chemicals themselves that caused the symptoms.
A review of 37 provocation studies concluded that "persons with MCS do react to chemical challenges; however, these responses occur when they can discern differences between active and sham substances, suggesting that the mechanism of action is not specific to the chemical itself and might be related to expectations and prior beliefs".[11] Critics of such provocation studies assert that they are inconclusive because they often employ masking odors which themselves are alleged to trigger MCS. At least one study attempted to correct for this problem by only using patients who do not respond to the masking odor, and this provocation study similarly showed no correlation between symptoms and chemical exposure.[27]
Another study found strong evidence of a placebo effect; purported MCS sufferers claimed symptoms in nonblinded tests when fed suspected food extracts, but were unable to produce symptoms consistently when the tests were doubleblinded; similarly, patients responded identically to "treatments" and saline.[28]
Jan Drew - 17 Jul 2007 06:57 GMT "The One Lying, Harassing proven liar who can't remember who he is, hides behing fake names such as...ilsa wishs dsabilites on others, tries to deconstruct those he disagrees with<Andrew_Kingoff@yahoo.com> wrote :
> On Jul 16, 5:25 am, Alan_K...@yahoo.com wrote: >> On Jul 14, 5:54 am, The One True Zhen Jue <Andrew_King...@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Sure it did. Perhaps you were looking for something that said "MCS" = > Psychiatric, Dude! Sadly, he thinks this is the only proof needed.
DrDre_2007_07@yahoo.com - 17 Jul 2007 12:18 GMT > >> > MCS is NOT an organic disorder. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sure it did. Perhaps you were looking for something that said "MCS" = > > Psychiatric, Dude! People should look for something that's reasonable in the slightest, in contrast to the drivel you flaunt.
> Sadly, he thinks this is the only proof needed. And so his reign-of-idiocy is coming to a close.
jandew6 - 17 Jul 2007 12:37 GMT >> >> > MCS is NOT an organic disorder. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > And so his reign-of-idiocy is coming to a close. You left out what Andrew Kingoff posted.
Dr. Dre - 18 Jul 2007 05:27 GMT version 2
> "The One Lying, Harassing proven liar who can't remember who he is, hides > behing fake names such as...ilsa wishs dsabilites on others, tries to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Sure it did. Perhaps you were looking for something that said "MCS" = >> Psychiatric, Dude! People should look for something that's reasonable in the slightest, in contrast to the drivel you flaunt.
> Sadly, he thinks this is the only proof needed. And so his reign-of-idiocy is coming to a close.
 Signature http://geocities.com/drdre5478965/
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