http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2006/03/14/state/...

http://cbs3.com/health/health_story_339214355.html

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.diseases.lyme/msg/5065f56b89eb0bc2

<snip>

Let's look at the facts, and not the ASSumptions nor the screamed
*bullshit*!

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8HIB6EO0.htm?campaign_i...
warns of suicide risks for Paxil.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5989348/FACT:FDA calls for warning on
antidepressantshttp://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antidepressants/MH00059FACT:
about your child's health.Why do antidepressants need warnings that they are
linked to suicidalbehavior in children and adolescents?Federal authorities
say that an extensive analysis of clinical trials showsthat antidepressants
may increase the risk of suicidal thinking or behaviorin children,
particularly in the early months of treatment of depression orother
psychiatric illnesses.The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) commissioned
researchers to analyze atotal of 24 clinical trials involving more than
4,400 children who weretaking antidepressants for various psychiatric
illnesses, includingdepression and anxiety disorders, such as
obsessive-compulsive disorder(OCD). According to the FDA, the analysis
showed that children takingantidepressants had about a 4 percent chance of
developing suicidal thoughtsor behavior, compared to only 2 percent in
children taking a placebo. Noneof the children in any of the studies
committed suicide.Still, the FDA considers the findings so disturbing that
in October 2004 itissued a public health advisory and began requiring
manufacturers ofantidepressants to label them with strong warnings about the
link to suicidein
children.http://vanderbiltowc.wellsource.com/dh/content.asp?ID=1550FACTS:Antid...
Drugs Associated with Suicidal ThoughtsBy Larry Axmaker, EdD, PhDThe labels
on all antidepressant drugs are now required by the U.S. Food andDrug
Administration (FDA) to include a boxed warning and expanded
warningstatements that alert people to an increased risk of suicidality
(suicidalthinking and behavior) in children and adolescents being treated
with theseagents.Physicians, their patients, families, and caregivers of
patients need toclosely monitor the use of prescription antidepressants in
both adults andchildren with depression, especially at the beginning of
treatment, or whenthe doses are changed - either an increase or decrease in
the dose.The increased warnings were prompted by the results of
antidepressantstudies in children. The risk of suicidality for these drugs
was identifiedin a combined analysis of short-term (up to four months)
placebo-controlledtrials of nine antidepressant drugs, including the
selective serotoninreuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and others, in children and
adolescents withmajor depressive disorder (MDD), obsessive compulsive
disorder (OCD), orother psychiatric disorders.A total of 24 trials involving
more than 4,400 patients were included. Theanalysis showed a greater risk of
suicidality during the first few months oftreatment in those receiving
antidepressants. The average risk of suchevents on drug was four percent -
twice the placebo risk of two percent. Nosuicides occurred in these
trials.WarningBased on these data, FDA has determined that the following
points areappropriate for inclusion in the boxed warning:  a..
Antidepressants increase the risk of suicidal thinking and
behavior(suicidality) in children and adolescents with MDD and other
psychiatricdisorders.  b.. Anyone considering the use of an antidepressant
in a child oradolescent for any clinical use must balance the risk of
increasedsuicidality with the clinical need.  c.. Patients who are started
on therapy should be observed closely forclinical worsening, suicidality, or
unusual changes in behavior.  d.. Families and caregivers should be advised
to closely observe thepatient and to communicate with the prescribing
physician.  e.. A statement regarding whether the particular drug is
approved for anypediatric indication(s) and, if so, which one(s).The only
one of these drugs that has currently received approval for use inchildren
with MDD is fluoxetine (Prozac). Prozac, Zoloft, Luvox, andAnafranil are
approved for OCD in pediatric patients. None of the drugs isapproved for
other psychiatric indications in children.The drugs receiving a boxed
warning, other product labling changes, and aMedication Guide pertaining to
pediatric suicidality:      Anafranil      (clomipramine HCl) Marplan
(isocarboxazid)  Sinequan      (doxepin HCl)      Aventyl
(nortriptyline HCl)  Nardil      (phenelzine sulfate)  Surmontil
(trimipramine)      Celexa      (citalopram HBr)  Norpramin
(desipramine HCl)  Symbyax      (olanzapine/ fluoxetine)      Cymbalta
(duloxetine HCl)  Pamelor      (nortriptyline HCl)  Tofranil
(imipramine HCl)      Desyrel      (trazodone HCl)  Parnate
(tranylcypromine sulfate)  Tofranil-PM      (impiramine pamoate)
Effexor      (venlafaxine HCl)  Paxil      (paroxetine HCl) Triavil
(Perphenaine/ Amitriptyline)      Elavil      (amitriptyline HCl)  Pexeva
(paroxetine mesylate)  Vivactil      (protriptyline HCl)      Lexapro
(escitalopram oxalate)  Prozac      (fluoxetine HCl)  Wellbutrin
(bupropion HCl)      Limbitrol      (chlordiazepoxide/ amitriptyline)
Remeron      (mirtazapine) Zoloft      (sertraline HCl)      Ludiomil
(Maprotiline HCl)  Sarafem      (fluoxetine HCl)  Zyban      (bupropion HCl)
Luvox      (fluvoxamine maleate)  Serzone      (nefazodone HCl)What to Watch
For  a.. Pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for
anyindication should be closely observed for clinical worsening, as well
asagitation, irritability, suicidality, and unusual changes in
behavior,especially during the initial few months of a course of drug
therapy, or attimes of dose changes, either increases or decreases.  b..
Heathcare providers should carefully evaluate patients in whomdepression
persistently worsens, or emergent suicidality is severe, abruptin onset, or
was not part of the presenting symptoms, to determine whatintervention,
including discontinuing or modifying the current drug therapy,is indicated.
This is especially the case at the beginning of therapy ofwhen the dose is
changed.  c.. Anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability,
hostility,impulsivity, akathisia (severe restlessness), hypomania, and mania
have beenreported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with
antidepressantsfor major depressive disorder as well as for other
indications. Therapyshould be evaluated, and medications may need to be
discontinued, whensymptoms are severe, abrupt in onset, or were not part of
the patient'spresenting symptoms.  d.. If a decision is made to discontinue
treatment, some of thesemedications should be tapered rather than stopped
abruptly (see labeling forindividual drug products for details).  e..
Because antidepressants are believed to have the potential forinducing manic
episodes in patients with bipolar disorder, there is aconcern about using
antidepressants alone for these indviduals. Therefore,patients should be
adequately screened to determine if they are at risk forbipolar disorder
before initiating antidepressant treatment.  f.. Healthcare providers should
instruct patients, their families, andtheir caregivers to be alert for the
emergence of agitation, irritability,and the other symptoms described above,
as well as the emergence ofsuicidality and worsening depression, and to
report such symptomsimmediately to their healthcare provider.Bottom LineIf
you or someone close to you takes prescription antidepressants, it
isimperative to be watchful, careful, and report any possible problems
orchanges to a doctor.Sources:  1. FDA Public Health Advisory. October 15,
2004. Suicidality in Childrenand Adolescents Being Treated With
Antidepressant Medications. Available at:http://www.fda.gov/ cder/drug/
antidepressants/ SSRIPHA200410.htm. AccessedMarch 12, 2006.  2. FDA Talk
Paper. March 22, 2004. FDA Issues Public Health Advisory onCautions for Use
of Antidepressants in Adults and Children. Available onlineat:
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/ topics/ANSWERS/ 2004/ANS01283.html. AccessedMarch
12, 2006.>>>> Let's take a look at this for a minute and see if I have my
assumptions>>>> here>>>> correct.>>>>>>>> 1)  Untreated, severely depressed
people attempt suicide.>>>> 2)  Untreated, severely depressed people attempt
suicide more oftenthan>>>> people who have fully adjusted to SSRI
treatment.>>>> 3)  Trained psychiatric nurses know that "often" the MOST
dangeroustime>>>> for>>>> a severely depressed person is the point where
they start to show>>>> improvement?>>>>      A)  Most dangerous?  Which is
MORE dangerous than what other time?>>>>            (3.a.1) BEFORE they even
start taking medication?>>>>            (3.a.2) From the subject title
above, it is the>>>> 'Antidepressant'>>>>                       which is
being fingered as the cause of a Raisein>>>>                       a Suicide
RISK.>>>>>>>> I say, BULLSHIT !!>>>> 1.  Untreated people who are left to
linger in deep depression aloneare>>>> at>>>> the highest risk of
suicide.>>>> 2.  People who begin taking antidepressant medication also
need>> counseling>>>> at the same time.>>>> 3.  The 'pill' is not the magic
bullet, cure all.>>>> 4.  It takes time for medication to even begin to work
(2 weeks at>> least).>>>> 5.  If the patient is not being  counseled or
monitored, they are will>> be>>>> expecting 'quicker results'.>>>> 6.  SSRI
medication is begun at the lowest possible dosage.>>>> 7.  SSRI is increased
slowly, over time.>>>> 8.  It could take months to achieve the level
required, especially for>>>> 'severely depressed patients.>>>> 9.
Uncounseled patients can easily forget is will take time, become>>>>
impatient and discouraged.>>>>>>>> Trying to blame someone's suicide at the
very early stages of beginning>> an>>>> SSRI medication is BULLSHIT, just
pure and simple

Sure it did -- it prevented the growth of bacteria.  Where did you get
the idea it wasn't needed?

True today -- was it true 50 years ago?  "Never" covers a lot of
ground here.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity.  Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher

That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact, John.  It *is* too bad
you can't see what a jerk you are.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity.  Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher

Methinks that you are confused. That standard applies to MeHg, NOT Ethyl
Mercury. Am I correct that you are aware of the significance of this and
know the difference between the two?

So? What is the significance of the standard? Are you claiming that
vaccines USED TO exceed that amount? If so, it is a surprise to the EPA:

"At concentrations found in vaccines, thimerosal meets the requirements
for a preservative as set forth by the United States Pharmacopeia; that
is, it kills the specified challenge organisms and is able to prevent
the growth of the challenge fungi (U.S. Pharmacopeia 2004). Thimerosal
in concentrations of 0.001% (1 part in 100,000) to 0.01% (1 part in
10,000) has been shown to be effective in clearing a broad spectrum of
pathogens. A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative
contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25
micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose. "

http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

From that page:

"One final piece of data regarding thimerosal is worth noting. At the
initial National Vaccine Advisory Committee-sponsored meeting on
thimerosal in 1999, concerns were expressed that infants may lack the
ability to eliminate mercury. More recent NIAID-supported studies at the
University of Rochester and National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda,
MD examined levels of mercury in blood and other samples from infants
who had received routine immunizations with thimerosal-containing
vaccines. [Pichichero ME, et al. Lancet 360:1737-1741 (2002)] Blood
levels of mercury did not exceed safety guidelines for methyl mercury
for all infants in these studies. Further, mercury was cleared from the
blood in infants exposed to thimerosal faster than would be predicted
for methyl mercury; infants excreted significant amounts of mercury in
stool after thimerosal exposure, thus removing mercury from their
bodies. These results suggest that there are differences in the way that
thimerosal and methyl mercury are distributed, metabolized, and
excreted. Thimerosal appears to be removed from the blood and body more
rapidly than methyl mercury. NIAID is sponsoring a follow-up study with
larger numbers of infants in Buenos Aires where thimerosal-containing
vaccines are still administered to children. See the NIH/NIAID
vaccines/thimerosal web site
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm."

Why do you

Your math, etc is off.

You are right most drugs can be poison -we consider

If you read the EPA page, and do remember, YOU cited them as
authoritative, you would learn that you are wrong.

That's a shame.  I was pointing out that anything can be dangerous in
sufficient quantity, even though it is not dangerous is lesser
amounts.

I don't deny that there *are* health hazards of mercury.  I *do* deny
that vaccines are one such hazard.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity.  Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher