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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / April 2007Olive/Oil Lemon Gallbladder Flush
If you have the chance to see Gunther von Hagens' "Body Worlds" http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html please do so. The most extraordinary aspect of it for me was seeing a real gallbladder that was sliced open showing real gallstones inside. They look EXACTLY like the stones I got rid of by doing a lemon/olive oil gallbladder flush. What kind of worms came out with the 20 kg of petrified fecal matter when you had your upper colonic? Theme from Twilight Zone, please. > If you have the chance to see Gunther von Hagens' "Body Worlds" > http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html please do so. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > look EXACTLY like the stones I got rid of by doing a lemon/olive oil > gallbladder flush. > What kind of worms came out with the 20 kg of petrified fecal matter when > you had your upper colonic? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> look EXACTLY like the stones I got rid of by doing a lemon/olive oil >> gallbladder flush. How does someone do a gallbladder flush? (I might be sorry to be asking this one) UM MOM Susan >> What kind of worms came out with the 20 kg of petrified fecal matter when >> you had your upper colonic? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > How does someone do a gallbladder flush? (I might be sorry to be asking > this one) UM MOM Susan <sigh> http://www.google.com >> What kind of worms came out with the 20 kg of petrified fecal matter when >> you had your upper colonic? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > How does someone do a gallbladder flush? (I might be sorry to be asking > this one) UM MOM Susan Cannot be done. It is a fraud. On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote: > > How does someone do a gallbladder flush? > > Cannot be done. It is a fraud. Have you ever tried this Mark? > On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have you ever tried this Mark? Why would I, since I understand human physiology and know that flushes are bullshit? >> On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why would I, since I understand human physiology and know that flushes are > bullshit? Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual knowledge. >>> On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual > knowledge. One only needs to stay awake in high school biology and chemistry to have the knowledge to know that flushes/cleanses are bull sh.t. >>>> On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> >>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > One only needs to stay awake in high school biology and chemistry to have > the knowledge to know that flushes/cleanses are bull sh.t. Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual knowledge. It's common practice and you don't even know the subject. >>>>> On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual Like I said, high school bio and chem are sufficient to know that cleansing is bullshit. Your comment makes no sense. Like the rest of what you write. > knowledge. > > It's common practice and you don't even know the subject. Common practice does not make it effective. Idiot. >>>>>> On Apr 10, 11:02 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> >>>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Common practice does not make it effective. So you have now turned into an anti M.D. person. Spend some time in hospitals and clinics. Get an education. Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual find. > Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great intellectual > > knowledge. > > It's common practice and you don't even know the subject. Well, I'm a "Doctor", and I can tell you that "gallbladder flush" is a bunch of hooey. There is no such thing in real medicine. Mark, MD >> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great >> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mark, MD You went to school. You aggrandize with the initials M.D. You don't know what the rest of the medical world does. You hear of a "flush" that is questionable or possibly poor or maybe great (You never have know anyone who used it) and then you generalize with a generalized statement about ALL flushes. You do NOT have the analytical capability of being a "quality" Doctor. > >> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great > >> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > generalized statement about ALL flushes. > You do NOT have the analytical capability of being a "quality" Doctor. Since you don't know me, you don't know my analytical style and you have never been a patient of mine, I respectfully submit that you shove your opinions about me up your a.s. You inferred that thousands of doctors know how wonderful gallbladder flushes are. I told you that as a practicing physician (versed in past and current medical literature, etc.) there is no such thing as a gallbladder flush, therapeutic or otherwise, in mainstream medicine. Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you that gallbladder/liver flushes are nonsense. To be fair, I'll keep an open mind, but until the preponderance of evidence convinces me otherwise, my opinion stays the same. Mark, MD (And I earned those letters, and my continued practice of medicine reflects it, by being thoughtful and analytical.) > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you > that gallbladder/liver flushes are nonsense. If so then why do you suppose they work? They have worked for me personally and for numerous friends and acquaintances of mine. Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism of any modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? > To be fair, I'll keep an open mind, but until the preponderance of > evidence convinces me otherwise, my opinion stays the same. > > Mark, MD >> >> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great >> >> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > have never been a patient of mine, I respectfully submit that you > shove your opinions about me up your a.s. You read what isn't printed and then generalize (FACT) > You inferred that thousands of doctors know how wonderful gallbladder > flushes are. I never mentioned Gallbladder previously. BUT there really are flushes being used in hospitals fo the Gallbladder as well as manny other bodily systems (Liver, Kidneys, Bladder, colon and and. >I told you that as a practicing physician (versed in > past and current medical literature, etc.) there is no such thing as a > gallbladder flush, therapeutic or otherwise, in mainstream medicine. Again you generalize using what YOU think a gall bladder fush is comprised of. > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you > that gallbladder/liver flushes are nonsense. I wasn't refering to naturopaths or DCs, but if they are successfull, is that the reason you post here. > To be fair, I'll keep an open mind, but until the preponderance of > evidence convinces me otherwise, my opinion stays the same. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (And I earned those letters, and my continued practice of medicine > reflects it, by being thoughtful and analytical.) >> >> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great >> >> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Try it with your next case. > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you > that gallbladder/liver flushes are nonsense. If so then why do you suppose they work? They have worked for me personally and for numerous friends and acquaintances of mine. Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism of any modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? >> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > any > modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? He has NEVER seen one fail OR work. He just responds with generalities. It's called trolling.. > > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just > > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They have worked for me personally and for > numerous friends and acquaintances of mine. Placebo effect. >> > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >> > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Placebo effect. And you know that the stones move under the power of placebo? What was the effect or perceived effect? >>> > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>> > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And you know that the stones move under the power of placebo? that is the key what is expelled does not originate in the gall bladder or the liver...so they aren't stones to begin with swallow a combo of olive oil and lemon,,,and they will attach to stuff already in the GI tract they are then passed along and excreted... but they are not "gallstones" but a combo of the junk ingested I know this from reading the pathology reports given on YOUR sites....these so called gallstones FLOAT whilst real gallstones sink like..well...like a rock... they may look like gallstones but they are not none of you have yet to address the impossibility of "stones" measuring upward of 7mm to over 2 cm passing thru a very narrow tube that has the diameter of a cocktail straw.... > What was the effect or perceived effect? >>>> > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>>> > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > The stones are softened, and then pass. DUH >>>>> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>>>> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > so called gallstones FLOAT whilst real gallstones sink like..well...like a > rock... Vern, rocks are stones for the purpose of this disussion. > they may look like gallstones but they are not > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >> What was the effect or perceived effect? >>>>>> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>>>>> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Vern, rocks are stones for the purpose of this disussion. So we have two non-knowing trolls trying to back out now. >> they may look like gallstones but they are not >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >>> What was the effect or perceived effect? >>>>>>> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>>>>>> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > So we have two non-knowing trolls trying to back out now. Vern, do get help. You have become totally incoherent. >>> they may look like gallstones but they are not >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> >>>> What was the effect or perceived effect? >>>>>>>> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>>>>>>> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >>>> >>>>> What was the effect or perceived effect? So we have three non-knowing trolls trying to back out now. So Mark Thorson: Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism of any modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? > So Mark Thorson: > > Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism > of any modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? If by "laboratory setting" you include medical clinics in which actual people are treated by qualified medical professionals, data is gathered, and appropriate statistical methods are applied in the analysis of the data to make a reliable determination whether a genuine response is observed, I'd say that's a necessary but not sufficient condition. If the premise of the alleged response is not plausible, for example if it was based on the theory that stones could be passed between unconnected organs (or organs connected by a path too small for the proposed stones), I'd demand a little more evidence. If only one report was positive -- even if the published account of the study methods appeared sound -- I'd want to see interlaboratory reproducibility. An extraordinary claim cannot be believed with less than that. Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from deluded fools would carry any weight at all. If it did, I'd have to accept the reality and truth of astrology, Scientology, Benny Hinn, etc. > Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from > deluded fools would carry any weight at all. > If it did, I'd have to accept the reality and truth > of astrology, Scientology, Benny Hinn, etc. As Dr. Lee Cowden, MD notes, "anecdotal evidence from a million Chinese IS data." > > Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from > > deluded fools would carry any weight at all. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Chinese > IS data." what are their names? >> > Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from >> > deluded fools would carry any weight at all. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Smarter Than You. > > Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from > > deluded fools would carry any weight at all. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As Dr. Lee Cowden, MD notes, "anecdotal evidence from > a million Chinese IS data." Does that mean you believe Benny Hinn really does perform miraculous healing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn And why would you believe that Cowden is a reliable source of information? Do you agree with him that pesticides and herbicides will not completely leave the body until mercury from dental amalgams is removed? Why would one have anything to do with the other? Quoting from: http://www.garynull.com/Documents/Arthritis/five_levels.htm "According to Lee Cowden, M.D. of Dallas, Texas, various foci of infection are important to remove, but they will not leave completely until accumulated herbicides and pesticides are removed. Herbicides and pesticides will not go completely until mercury is removed." Do you really think that a quarter of the U.S. population has Lyme disease? You don't find that assertion even a little bit wacky? Quoting from: http://www.drgarysnyder.com/PDF/nutranews1003_low%20(2).pdf "Lee Cowden, MD states that there are very few symptoms where one should not consider Lyme, especially given that a quarter of the U.S. population may be affected. It is estimated that Lyme disease may be a contributing factor in more than 50% of chronically ill people." Or that autism can be cured with a combination of a laser pointer and ultra-diluted homeopathic medicines? A laser pointer? That's not even a little bit wacky? (Perhaps not to you.) Quoting from: http://www.mercola.com/seminars/200703/klinghardt-autism "Monday April 2nd: William Lee Cowden, MD Laser Detoxification for parents and caregivers: a new breakthrough treatment in autism and other neuro-developmental disorders. This elegant and fresh approach to toxicity uses an inexpensive laser pointer and homeopathic antidotes to common toxins found in ASD children. The results are often almost miraculous. Dr. Cowden is a "recovering" cardiologist and by many considered one of the most gifted, caring and brilliant physicians of our time." > > As Dr. Lee Cowden, MD notes, "anecdotal evidence from > > a million Chinese IS data." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And why would you believe that Cowden is a reliable > source of information? I don't necessarily agree with everything Cowden asserts. I do however agree with him in holding that repeated and consistent empirical results IS data...even until the day arrives that Western research advances to a point that it is able to discern the mechanics behind what is occurring. Do you agree that there just might be aspects of biochemistry that as yet Western science has not developed the methodology to discern the mechanics of...and that humans just might be partaking of one of these aspects that, as yet, remains beyond the provenance of the Western mind? > I don't necessarily agree with everything Cowden asserts. > > I do however agree with him in holding that repeated and > consistent empirical results IS data...even until the day > arrives that Western research advances to a point that it > is able to discern the mechanics behind what is occurring. Lots of people believe in astrology -- that doesn't mean there's any validity to it. Quite a few people believe they've been abducted (and subsequently returned) by aliens. Some people swear they've been the victim of government mind-control experiments using satellites and/or cellphone towers. Quantity is no substitute for credibility. It most certainly is NOT data. > Do you agree that there just might be aspects of biochemistry > that as yet Western science has not developed the methodology > to discern the mechanics of...and that humans just might be > partaking of one of these aspects that, as yet, remains > beyond the provenance of the Western mind? This is a form of sophistry, where you introduce one idea that few could argue against, in order to slip in another much more absurd idea. It's like asking whether intelligent life exists anywhere in the universe outside the Earth, if your real agenda is to float the idea that there's intelligent civilizations on Mars or Venus. Applied to the alleged "gallstones" produced by the alleged "cleanse", I can guarantee that no future advances in biochemistry will ever support the possibility that they really are gallstones. Many things are possible, but not that one. We know exactly what gallstones are, and we know exactly what these alleged "gallstones" produced by the phony "cleanses" are. And even if we didn't know those things, simple physiology would rule out that a 7 to 10 mm "gallstone" could pass through the common bile duct without pain. http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone >> I don't necessarily agree with everything Cowden asserts. >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > I did it and I got through it with the flush and apple juice. > Thank you for your concern. Ok then Mark, completely aside from the discussion of gallstones, aliens, astrology, Benny Hinn and Scientology...will you address the following issue? Do you concede that there just might be aspects of biochemistry that as yet Western science has not developed the methodology to discern the mechanics of? And that humans have and do participate in health modalities, the biochemical aspects of which, as yet, remain beyond the provenance of the Western mind? Or do you hold that all health modalities that are not yet fully knowable are, ipso facto, without validity? Ok then Mark, completely aside from the discussion of gallstones, aliens, astrology, Benny Hinn and Scientology...will you address the following issue? Do you concede that there just might be aspects of biochemistry that as yet Western science has not developed the methodology to discern the mechanics of? And that humans have and do participate in health modalities, the biochemical aspects of which, as yet, remain beyond the provenance of the Western mind? Or do you hold that all health modalities that are not yet fully knowable are, ipso facto, without validity? > Do you concede that there just might be aspects of > biochemistry that as yet Western science has not > developed the methodology to discern the mechanics of? Yes, but that's totally irrelevant to the question of whether the alleged "gallstones" produced by a "cleanse" really are gallstones. We know exactly what these bogus "gallstones" are, and we know that they could not possibly be real gallstones. You are just raising a smokescreen to distract from the real question when you repeat this statement. > Or do you hold that all health modalities that are not > yet fully knowable are, ipso facto, without validity? Of course not. Until very recently, nobody knew how aspirin worked. Even today, the precise mechanism of action of many effective drugs is unknown. However, it is the height of intellectual dishonesty to raise this red herring in a discussion of the phony "liver cleanse". It is known that the alleged "gallstones" produced by this procedure are not genuine gallstones. It is known what they are. They are agglomerations of the ingrediants used in the alleged "cleanse". Even if this were not known, the sheer physical size of these buoyant "stones" rules out the possibility that they travelled down the common blie duct. You can read all about it here, or you can choose to remain ignorant. I have little doubt which choice you will make. http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone It is known that the alleged > "gallstones" produced by this procedure are not > genuine gallstones. It is known what they are. > They are agglomerations of the ingrediants used in > the alleged "cleanse". Any clinical evidence for this? > It is known that the alleged >> "gallstones" produced byhttp://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone this procedure are not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Any clinical evidence for this? http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Do some research. You'll find images of reallgallstones and the clumps of the flushes. >> It is known that the alleged >>> "gallstones" produced byhttp://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Do some research. You'll find images of reallgallstones and the clumps of > the flushes. "some" images of "some" gallstones. LIAR >> Do you concede that there just might be aspects of >> biochemistry that as yet Western science has not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And what exactly are they? How do you KNOW that? > You are just raising a smokescreen to distract from > the real question when you repeat this statement. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone >>> Do you concede that there just might be aspects of >>> biochemistry that as yet Western science has not [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >>http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Tools, I'd really like to read what you wrote, and perhaps other people do too, but until you finally learn to properly set up the quote function of your usenet reader, nobody has a clue what you wrote and what Mark wrote. Ok, I'll just top post . That way you will know it's from me. >>>> Do you concede that there just might be aspects of >>>> biochemistry that as yet Western science has not [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > too, but until you finally learn to properly set up the quote function of > your usenet reader, nobody has a clue what you wrote and what Mark wrote. In misc.health.alternative David <david@dehartphoto.com> wrote: : Ok, I'll just top post . That way you will know it's from me. And there will be no doubt left about whether or not you are an idiot. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- "Gentlemen, Ciccolini here may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you -- he really is an idiot." Dearest, You thinking of me as an idiot is quite a compliment, coming from you, who can only look up to the dizzying heights of an idiot. The part you miss, due to your low status, is that everyone at the idiot level or above looks the same to you. At least you understand you place in the world. You do not have to stay there though. Learn to think for yourself, and you can rise above your current status of sub-idiot. > In misc.health.alternative David <david@dehartphoto.com> wrote: > : Ok, I'll just top post . That way you will know it's from me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "Gentlemen, Ciccolini here may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, > but don't let that fool you -- he really is an idiot." In misc.health.alternative David <david@dehartphoto.com> wrote: : Dearest, You thinking of me as an idiot is quite a compliment, coming from : you, who can only look up to the dizzying heights of an idiot. I may or may not be an idiot, but at least I know how to format my posts to usenet, which is more than can be said for you. ----- Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University ----- ". . . for while he was not dumber than an ox, he was not any smarter." -- James Thurber, _My Life and Hard Times_ > Ok, I'll just top post . That way you will know it's from me. I never thought I'd live to see the day that I'd say top posting is an improvement of someone's usual method of replying, but here it is. > > Do you concede that there just might be aspects of > > biochemistry that as yet Western science has not > > developed the methodology to discern the mechanics of? > > Yes, but... Interesting concession on your part...interesting implications as well. > > > Do you concede that there just might be aspects of > > > biochemistry that as yet Western science has not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Interesting concession on your part...interesting implications as well. You respond only to the part where you raise a deception, suggesting that there might be an undiscovered mechanism behind the "cleanse". That's not true. There is no undiscovered mechanism. We know exactly how this form of health fraud works. The ingrediants in the "cleanse" form the purported "gallstones" in the digestive tract. You can read about how this works right here: http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone > You respond only to the part where you raise > a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Hmmm...now let's see which of these requires the greater suspension of common sense...the accretion of these "stones" from the oil, lemon juice and whatever they encounter in the body...OVERNIGHT.."Stones" that happen to remarkably resemble gallstones in size, shape and color or... ...their being able to navagate the admittedly narrow bile ducts. > > You respond only to the part where you raise > > a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that happen to remarkably resemble gallstones in size, shape and color > or... Except that they don't resemble gallstones at all. They are the wrong color and wrong shape. And they float. (Real gallstones do not float in water. Ever.) > ...their being able to navagate the admittedly narrow bile ducts. And they're way too big to go down the common bile duct. They are OBVIOUSLY not gallstones. >>> You respond only to the part where you raise >>> a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > They are OBVIOUSLY not gallstones. This is an image of the "gallstones" from a cleanse: http://curezone.com/cleanse/liver/default.asp Note that the source is absolutely unimpeachable. Here are reall gallstones: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/labreportstones.jpg There are other images available, but they all look like rocks, not fur balls. > Here are real gallstones: > > http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/labreportstones.jpg Are you sure about that? Please check it again. On Apr 18, 10:28 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote: > Here are reall gallstones: > > http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/labreportstones.jpg > > There are other images available, but they all look like rocks, not fur > balls.- Whoa Mark P....What I've gotten out of me are different from both of the illus. you proffer... Mine looked like the ones in the Body Works gallbladder... > On Apr 18, 10:28 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mine looked like the ones in the Body Works gallbladder... You mean the things that were prepared and colored for your viewing pleasure? Tell me, does any of the rest of your body look like anything in the Body Works exposition? > On Apr 18, 10:28 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mine looked like the ones in the Body Works gallbladder... Here is a simple test. Place them in a glass of water. If they float, they are not gall stones. Then, drink the water. On Apr 18, 10:28 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote: > Here are reall gallstones: > http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/labreportstones.jpg > There are other images available, but they all look like rocks, not fur > balls.- Whoa Mark P....What I've gotten out of me are different from both of the illus. you proffer... Mine looked like the ones in the Body Works gallbladder... > On Apr 18, 10:28 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mine looked like the ones in the Body Works gallbladder... Timmy, is this you or Haley posing as you? Or, are you posing as Haley? Are you sure that you know who you are? Perhaps the cleanse took more out of you... >> You respond only to the part where you raise >> a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >...their being able to navagate the admittedly narrow bile ducts. "Admittedly narrow?" Hey Tim, can you shove a bowling ball through a garden hose? That's the kind of "admittedly narrow" aperture we'd need to have those "stones" navigate in order to pass through the bile ducts. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. Oh that's right! they solved that problem, just cut the little buggers out. >>> You respond only to the part where you raise >>> a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher > Top posted because it bugs certain people. > So...... According to David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya > know. You haven't seen many births have you? I think if flushes were as painful, people would opt for surgery under general anestetics real quick. Oh, and there is an anatomical difference between the bile duct and the birth canal. Try and read a basic human anatomy text. > Oh that's right! they solved that problem, just cut the little buggers out. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. >> "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher >> Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to David's >> position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> think that the flush might soften the stones allowing them to pass? >> Painfully, yes, but pass. >>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to David's >>>position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >how far tissue can stretch. Painful? Yes it looked like it was. Do you >think that the flush might soften the stones allowing them to pass? No. Stones don't soften. That's why they're called stones. >Painfully, yes, but pass. Second point: anatomical difference. Stretchable muscle tissue vs bile duct tissue for starters. >>>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to David's >>>>position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > cartilage, will stretch some. It I'm wrong please provide a site to > educate me. >>>>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to >>>>>David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> other than bones and cartilage, will stretch some. It I'm wrong please >> provide a site to educate me. sorry..no...certain structures are designed to "stretch" a bit..ie the aformentioned birth canal..also the lower GI tract that stretches to allow passage of stools.... but the bile ducts..nah...they are first of all..way too narrow even if they did stretch...not to mention they are not muscular tissue like the birth canal or GI tract... they are friable and would/could tear....good comparision...ever passed a kidney stone??? probably the worst pain known to man...the ureter (tube from kidney to bladder) and urethra (tube from bladder to outdoors)...also are very narrow orifices...so when/if a stone passes either...the patient is in excrutiating pain >>>>>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to >>>>>>David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > are very narrow orifices...so when/if a stone passes either...the patient > is in excrutiating pain Yes dear, I have "passed a stone", have you? >>>>>>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to >>>>>>>David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Yes dear, I have "passed a stone", have you? A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush? >>>>>>>>Top posted because it bugs certain people. So...... According to >>>>>>>>David's position, babies could not be born. Too big ya know. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > second time used a lot of apple juice, and the olive oil lemon flush. It > worked very well. Pain, but far less. > A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide quoted text - Why do so many experience a restoration of normal gallbladder and digestive function by utilizing the liver/gallbladdder flush? >>A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide quoted text - > > Why do so many experience a restoration of normal gallbladder and > digestive function by utilizing the liver/gallbladdder flush? Why do so many experience the same sort of things when someone merely waves their hands over them? >>>A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide quoted >>>text - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > waves their hands over them? Oh, PLEASE > tell us about your experience with this. This should be good. >>>>A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide >>>>quoted text - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> waves their hands over them? >> Oh, PLEASE tell us about your experience with this. This should be good. >>>>>A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide >>>>>quoted text - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> Why do so many experience the same sort of things when someone merely >>> waves their hands over them? Oh, PLEASE tell us about your experience with this. This should be good. >>>>>>A stone, or one of those 'not-a-stone' things after a flush?- Hide >>>>>>quoted text - [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > PLEASE > tell us about your experience with this. This should be good. All good things come in threes, don't they. >>>You respond only to the part where you raise >>>a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > "Admittedly narrow?" Hey Tim, can you shove a bowling ball through a > garden hose? I don't think he does, but I know a girl who can suck a golfbal through a garden hose! :-) (you know you were asking for that one, don't you) > That's the kind of "admittedly narrow" aperture we'd > need to have those "stones" navigate in order to pass through the bile [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "HPV shots don't cause promiscuity. Tequila shots do." -- Bill Maher > That's not true. There is no undiscovered > mechanism. We know exactly how this form [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Another report can be found in the journal "The Lancet" "Could these be gallstones?" Lancet. 2005 Apr 16-22;365(9468):1388. It describes a woman who did in fact have gallstones, which the cleanses/flushes did nothing for. After flushing, she passed a number of "stones" which when examined microscopically and assayed, turned out not to be gallstones. Her pain continued and the gallstones were then removed surgically. Unlike the reference Mark supplied, however, this one is not freely available on the net though one can get access to it easily enough in most medical/university libraries. After looking at the pictures of the stones, I must say that passing one of those through your bile duct (if physically poosible at all) without being rendered unconscoius by extreme pain seems highly unlikely. If one looks at the availble (credible) evidence, it seems clear that the product of these flushes are not gallstones. Whether or not the flushes make people feel better or have some type of salutary (or detrimental) health effects is an entirely separate question upon which I cannot comment... Dunner > You respond only to the part where you raise > a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > how this works right here: > http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Hmmm...now let's see which of these requires the greater suspension of common sense...the accretion of these "stones" from the oil, lemon juice and whatever they encounter in the body...OVERNIGHT.."Stones" that happen to remarkably resemble gallstones in size, shape and color or... ...their being able to navagate the narrow bile ducts (while bathed in oil). > > You respond only to the part where you raise > > a deception, suggesting that there might be [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ...their being able to navagate the narrow bile ducts (while bathed in > oil). You are willfully ignorant. You have been given links to reliable information which disprove your foolish beliefs about these "cleanses", and yet you stubbornly refuse to look at them (or if you did look at them, you reject them for no rational reason). Nothing you have said is true. These purported "gallstones" do not resemble real gallstones in shape or color. Their size precludes any possibility that they travelled down the common bile duct. You are truly a fool. Only a fool persists in such beliefs when presented with reliable evidence to the contrary. > Nothing you have said is true. These purported > "gallstones" do not resemble real gallstones > in shape or color. Their size precludes any > possibility that they travelled down the common > bile duct. Might I suggest you locate a person in your area, perhaps on MySpace or Match, who has done liver/gallbladder cleanses. Ask if they will accompany you to the nearest display of Gunther von Hagens' "Body Worlds" http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html. Show them the opened, stone-containing gallbladder...It will be a "eureka" moment for them if not for you... > You are truly a fool. Only a fool persists in > such beliefs when presented with reliable > evidence to the contrary. ad hominen... The true "reliable evidence" are the many folks world-wide who have and do improve their health by this modality. > > Nothing you have said is true. These purported > > "gallstones" do not resemble real gallstones [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Hagens' "Body Worlds" > http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html. Euwwww!!! Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Worlds#Controversies > Show them the opened, stone-containing gallbladder...It will be a > "eureka" moment for them if not for you... I don't need that disgusting exhibit to know what gallstones look like. They don't look anything like the junk which is excreted following a purported "cleanse". What part of this description (written by someone sympathetic to alternative medicine) do you disagree with? http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Or do you refuse to look at it out of principle, like GMCarter? "Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net> wrote : > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Worlds#Controversies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY > Euwwww!!! Read about it here: Granted, it is a bit graphic...Don't eat just before going... > I don't need that disgusting exhibit to know what > gallstones look like. They don't look anything > like the junk which is excreted following a > purported "cleanse". Mark, Mark, you're completely missing my point...the point of the exibit isn't to show you what real gallsones look like; the point is that the "cleansee" you will be taking with you (remember the one you met through MySpace?) will about fall down when she sees that the gallstones in that gallbladder look EXACTLY, EXACTLY like the ones that came out of her little behind not too long ago. "The exhibit states that its purpose and mission is the education of laymen about the human body, leading to better health awareness." Wikipedia > What part of this description (written by someone > sympathetic to alternative medicine) do you > disagree with? No, I looked at it and will look at it again... > Mark, Mark, you're completely missing my point...the point of the > exibit isn't to show you what real gallsones look like; the point > is that the "cleansee" you will be taking with you (remember the > one you met through MySpace?) will about fall down when she sees > that the gallstones in that gallbladder look EXACTLY, EXACTLY like > the ones that came out of her little behind not too long ago. No, there is no resemblance between these purported gallstones and genuine gallstones. They differ in size, shape, and color. They differ in buoyancy in water (real gallstones ALWAYS sink; these bogus "gallstones" float). And, I've never looked at (must less posted) anything at myspace.com. If anything exists there under my name, you can be sure it is completely fraudulent. (Although it might be composed of stuff including actual quotes of my postings to various newsgroups. Like everything on such sites, you should not regard it with any credibility. If you want to believe what I say, get it from me, not from some spurious and wrong web site.) > And, I've never looked at (must less posted) > anything at myspace.com. If anything exists [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to believe what I say, get it from me, not > from some spurious and wrong web site.) Mark...Mark...the MySpace remark was in reference to my earlier post: "Might I suggest that you locate a person in your area, maybe on MySpace or Match, who has done a liver/gallbladder cleanse. Ask if they will accompany you to the nearest display of Gunther von Hagens' "Body Worlds" http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html...." > And, I've never looked at (must less posted) > anything at myspace.com. If anything exists [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to believe what I say, get it from me, not > from some spurious and wrong web site.) Mark...Mark...the MySpace remark was in reference to my earlier post: "Might I suggest that you locate a person in your area, maybe on MySpace or Match, who has done a liver/gallbladder cleanse. Ask if they will accompany you to the nearest display of Gunther von Hagens' "Body Worlds" http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html...." >> And, I've never looked at (must less posted) >> anything at myspace.com. If anything exists [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Ask if they will accompany you to the nearest display of Gunther von > Hagens' "Body Worlds" http://www.bodyworlds.com/index.html...." TimmY? Haley? > And, I've never looked at (must less posted) > anything at myspace.com. > That is because you are slow, but you knew that already. That's why you > come here, to try and build some small amount of self esteem .The problem > is that people all over the world read your pathitic blather, and view you > as you really are. Mark, you may now remove your head from your a.s. Wipe your eyes and see the world as it truly is, not as something you read and want to believe. I'm sorry that you are so fearful that you look to so called experts to tell you how it is, but your fear of life and taking responsibility for it are not going away. Deal with it. >> > Nothing you have said is true. These purported >> > "gallstones" do not resemble real gallstones [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Or do you refuse to look at it out of principle, > like GMCarter? > Mark, you may now remove your head from your a.s. Wipe your eyes and see the > world as it truly is, not as something you read and want to believe. I'm > sorry that you are so fearful that you look to so called experts to tell you > how it is, but your fear of life and taking responsibility for it are not > going away. Deal with it."Mark Thorson" <nos...@sonic.net> wrote in message Well articulated David... > > > Do you concede that there just might be aspects of > > > biochemistry that as yet Western science has not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Interesting concession on your part...interesting implications as well. You respond only to the part where you raise a deception, suggesting that there might be an undiscovered mechanism behind the "cleanse". That's not true. There is no undiscovered mechanism. We know exactly how this form of health fraud works. The ingrediants in the "cleanse" form the purported "gallstones" in the digestive tract. You can read about how this works right here: http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#gallstone Gee Timmy, I thought Haley wrote it. You both have identical headers. Using a female sock puppet... > Ok then Mark, completely aside from the discussion of gallstones, > aliens, astrology, Benny Hinn and Scientology...will you address the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Or do you hold that all health modalities that are not yet fully > knowable are, ipso facto, without validity? >> Certainly, no number of personal testimonials from >> deluded fools would carry any weight at all. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Chinese > IS data." Only a million? You are talking China, not Podunk Junction. >> So Mark Thorson: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that you want, but you will be waiting a long time while people use the > flush with great success. Hope that you never have to deal with it. > So Mark Thorson: > > Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism of > any modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? It sure beats "Try it, you'll like it". >> > Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >> > crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Placebo effect. TROLL , > GET BACK UNDER YOUR ROCK! >>> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >>> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Placebo effect. Wishful thinking. >> Perhaps these thousands of "doctors" are naturopaths or DCs or just >> crystal-waving graduates of some diploma mill. But I'm telling you >> that gallbladder/liver flushes are nonsense. > > If so then why do you suppose they work? How do they"work". Note that "work" is a non-specific term used by proponents of *S*o-*C*alled *A*lternative *M*edicine and needs to be defined by the user. > They have worked for me personally and for > numerous friends and acquaintances of mine. Please list names and phone numbers for verification purposes. Data is not the plural of anecdote. > Is your sole criteria of efficacy that the underlying mechanism of > any > modality be demonstrable in a laboratory setting? Strawman. There has to be a reasonable physiological basis for it. So far, the Flusher Fanatics have yet to show one. >>> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great >>> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You don't know what the rest of the medical world does. you stated "go to a hospital or clinic" and see what they are doing..ie ridiculous flushes well....as with Mark...I have spent over 40 years in hospitals and clinics... I have never seen nor heard of a "gallbladder flush" being ordered ,,done or even considered.. again..it is YOU who needs an education > You hear of a "flush" that is questionable or possibly poor or maybe great > (You never have know anyone who used it) and then you generalize with a > generalized statement about ALL flushes. > You do NOT have the analytical capability of being a "quality" Doctor. >>>> Better inform thousands of Doctors and hospitals of your great >>>> intellectual [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > 40 years and still do not get it. You should go into politics, you would > find lots like "minds". |
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