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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / March 2007colon cleanse
Most people think digestion happens in the stomach, but that's only half the story. It is the intestines that fully digest food so vital nourishment, vitamins, and minerals can absorb into your bloodstream. Only after that does elimination occur. Advocates say that Colon Cleansing makes these good, natural processes happen easier, faster, and correctly. It "Cleans House" in your intestinal tract as it: Speeds healthy elimination Encourages proper digestion Relieves constipation Relieves bloating and gas Enhances nutrient absorption Cleans the intestinal tract of unfriendly bacteria & other toxins Increases metabolism to make losing weight easier Has anybody tried colon cleansing? Do you think it works or is it just the latest fad? Mike http://www.naturalneds.com > Do you think it works or is it > just the latest fad? Latest fad? It was most popular in the late 19th century. It's been declining ever since. At one time, the underlying theory was not considered an unreasonable or unscientific belief in conventional medicine. But that was a long time ago. The idea that there are large deposits of toxin-producing undigested food adhering to the inside of the colon is utter malarkey. If there were such deposits, you'd be able to see them in a living person during a colonoscopy, or in a dead person on autopsy. But people who do these kinds of examinations don't see these deposits. Here's a description from a pathologist who's cut open hundreds of colons: http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#colonic >> Do you think it works or is it >> just the latest fad? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > considered an unreasonable or unscientific > belief in conventional medicine. Bingo! But that > was a long time ago. The idea that there > are large deposits of toxin-producing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm#colonic I would be remiss without placing links to Steve Barrett . Ahhh. Bingo! http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_1X_What_are_the_key_statistics _for_colon_and_rectum_cancer.asp?sitearea= Excluding skin cancers, colorectal cancer is the third most common cancer diagnosed in men and in women in the United States. The American Cancer Society estimates that about 112,340 new cases of colon cancer (55,290 men and 57,050 women) and 41,420 new cases of rectal cancer (23,840 men and 17,580 women) will be diagnosed in 2007. Colorectal cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related deaths in the United States and is expected to cause about 52,180 deaths (26,000 men and 26,180 women) during 2007. http://www.drnatura.com/ http://www.colon-cleanse-constipation.com/ http://www.colonzone.org/ > http://www.drnatura.com/ > > http://www.colon-cleanse-constipation.com/ > > http://www.colonzone.org/ Why are people so afraid of colonics? I bet your grandmother had an enema bag. Colonics are just one big enema after another. Are people afraid to see what it is exactly that is coming out of them, (you can always close your eyes). The comment about Dr. Stephen Barrett...I am guessing means that he has a website about the "evils of colonics"? >> http://www.drnatura.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Why are people so afraid of colonics? I bet your grandmother had an >enema bag. My grandmother was not stupid, so you have lost the bet. > Colonics are just one big enema after another. Do you know that "Enemas" is one of categories used to classify pornography? You can buy films. > Are people >afraid to see what it is exactly that is coming out of them, (you can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >has a website about the "evils of colonics"? >  SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>http://www.drnatura.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why are people so afraid of colonics? Because it's totally useless, but potentially harmful. People have died from it, you know. > I bet your grandmother had an enema bag. You loose. > Colonics are just one big enema after another. Are people > afraid to see what it is exactly that is coming out of them, (you can > always close your eyes). > > The comment about Dr. Stephen Barrett...I am guessing means that he > has a website about the "evils of colonics"? > Because it's totally useless, but potentially harmful. People have died > from it, you know. How many people have died? How about some facts to back up your silly comments. >>Because it's totally useless, but potentially harmful. People have died >>from it, you know. > > How many people have died? How about some facts to back up your silly > comments. Always happy to oblige: Eisele JW, Reay DT. Deaths related to coffee enemas. JAMA 244:1608-1609, 1980 Amebiasis associated with colonic irrigation - Colorado. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 30:101-102, 1981. Istre GR and others. An outbreak of amebiasis spread by colonic irrigation at a chiropractic clinic. New England Journal of Medicine 307:339-342, 1982. http://www.oag.state.tx.us/oagnews/release.php?id=295 Bye now. > Always happy to oblige: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bye now. Thank you Mr. Facts. How about telling us how many deaths happen each year due to prescription drugs? And how many deaths happen each year due to virus and bacteria outbreaks in hospitals? > > Always happy to oblige: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thank you Mr. Facts. How about telling us how many deaths > happen each year due to prescription drugs? Yeah, that's right. Divert attention away from all those deaths from colon cleansing. > And how many deaths happen each year due to virus and > bacteria outbreaks in hospitals? Pull the spotlight off those colon cleansing deaths, while ignoring the lives saved by drugs and hospitals. Drugs and hospitals exist because, on balance, they save many lives. They have a risk/benefit ratio that favors saving lives. That a drug or a medical procedure may kill some people can be justified, if it saves many more people than it kills. Ignore the fact that colon cleansing never saves any lives -- it only takes them. One of the riskiest things that people do is driving cars. Tens of thousands of people are killed in the U.S. every year from driving cars. And yet we accept this risk because of the benefits cars bring us. On the other hand, we have a very low tolerance for deaths caused by toy cars. Even a small number of deaths would be completely unacceptable. Whenever a toy is discovered to have a small parts choking hazard (or any other kind of hazard), it is rapidly recalled. We have a low tolerance for the dangers of toy cars because they provide no significant benefits that we can't get along without. Comparing colon cleansing to drugs or hospitals is like comparing it to cars, when the correct comparison is with toy cars. The acceptable number of deaths from colon cleansing should be zero. But it's not zero. It's a seriously invasive procedure, and the death rate from colon cleansing will never be zero. That's why it should be stopped completely. >>Always happy to oblige: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > And how many deaths happen each year due to virus and bacteria > outbreaks in hospitals? I suggest you start here: www.dictionary.com. Look up what 'diversion' means. And while you at it, please explain why even just one death from colon cleansing would be acceptable because people also die from other causes? > msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>Always happy to oblige: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > colon cleansing would be acceptable because people also die from other > causes? I suggest you start with the dictionary, and look up the word "death". Tell me why one death from medical error would be acceptable and one death from colon cleansing is not acceptable? Case in point. Ask any conventional doctor what the leading cause of death is in this country. Clue: It's not from colon cleansing. >>msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Tell me why one death from medical error would be acceptable and one > death from colon cleansing is not acceptable? Case in point. A death or complication from colon cleansing is unacceptable because there is possible benefit to offset the risk. Colon cleansing = all risk and NO benefit. And a death from colon cleansing is not because an error has been made, it's an integral part of colon cleansing. If somebody dies from a medical error, it's because someone screwed up. That's why it's called an error. If someone dies from colon cleansing, it's because he did exactly what he should have done according to the colon cleanse instructions, because colon cleansing in and of itself, without making any errors, is dangerous. That is a very big difference. > Ask any conventional doctor what the leading cause of death is in > this country. > > Clue: It's not from colon cleansing. It's not from banging your head against the wall either. Are you telling us that it's therefor totally safe to bang your head against the wall? >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> Always happy to oblige: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Tell me why one death from medical error would be acceptable and one > death from colon cleansing is not acceptable? Once again you prove to be a moron. No one, including John, has said that. Your use of the strawman is very instructive about your motives. Case in point. > Ask any conventional doctor what the leading cause of death is in > this country. > > Clue: It's not from colon cleansing. Diversion continues. > msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Diversion continues. No diverson on this end. "Diversion" is a typical word used in court cases. As having been a juror in a court room setting, I've heard that word used by attorneys in several settings. Are you an attorney? Diversion happens when those that lack real knowledge of a particular subject attempt to sway the readers with propaganda that they have read or been given, instead of any real personal knowledge or indepth research for which they have personal knowledge. People that misuse the word "diversion" are often the ones that are indeed talking in circles, because they lack the professional expertise on any given subject. Pretending to know about a subject without actual personal experience borders on stupidity. This is an alternative health group discussion. People with real first hand knowledge of a subject matter would be the ones that I would be most interested in discussing colon cleansing with. How many times have you had your colon cleansed? Unless you can answer this question, I am not interested in discussing colon cleansing with you. >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > that word used by attorneys in several settings. Are you an > attorney? He went to a school and practiced for a while. > Diversion happens when those that lack real knowledge of a > particular subject attempt to sway the readers with propaganda that > they have read or been given, instead of any real personal knowledge > or indepth research for which they have personal knowledge. Precisely > People > that misuse the word "diversion" are often the ones that are indeed > talking in circles, because they lack the professional expertise on > any given subject. Pretending to know about a subject without actual > personal experience borders on stupidity. Not for a lawyer. They get paid for "diversions". > This is an alternative health group discussion. People with real > first hand knowledge of a subject matter would be the ones that I > would be most interested in discussing colon cleansing with. How many > times have you had your colon cleansed? Unless you can answer this > question, I am not interested in discussing colon cleansing with > you. But, Mark is VERY interested in the anus. > But, Mark is VERY interested in the anus. Actually, no. My favorite body part is the human hand. >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > No diverson on this end. Male bovine excreta. You were shown that colon cleansing is not the benign namby-pamby thing you were claiming it was, and you D I V E R T E D to problems with Real Medicine. "Diversion" is a typical word used in court > cases. As having been a juror in a court room setting, I've heard > that word used by attorneys in several settings. Are you an > attorney? I was not the first to call you on your feeble attempt at diversion. Look it up. > Diversion happens when those that lack real knowledge of a > particular subject attempt to sway the readers with propaganda that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > any given subject. Pretending to know about a subject without actual > personal experience borders on stupidity. Your diversion continues. As I expected. > This is an alternative health group discussion. People with real > first hand knowledge of a subject matter would be the ones that I > would be most interested in discussing colon cleansing with. How many > times have you had your colon cleansed? Unless you can answer this > question, I am not interested in discussing colon cleansing with > you. Why would any intelligent person, such as myself, undergo a procedure that is useless and potentially dangerous. Your "no personal experience" weasel is so typical of the alt nuts. Tell you what, go experience jumping off a bridge and tell me if it is safe. What a maroon. Mr. Probert: What part of my question did you not understand? Let me spell it out for you word by word so in case you have retention issues that you will be able to understand it correctly and not pull a mumbo jumbo barrage of stupidity...... The question was: >>>>>How many times have you had your colon cleansed?<<<<< How many times (hint: this would time to count on your fingers and your toes the number of times that you have had your colon cleansed). My next statement was >>>>Unless you can answer this question, I am not interested in discussing colon cleansing with you. <<<<<<<< So, Mr. King of Diversion...what part of that statement did you not understand? This means, I'm not going to stoop to your level of stupidity, and not going to discuss anything further with you because you lack any real first hand knowledge of alternative health. On Mar 9, 10:10 pm, "msmith2...@yahoo.com" <msmith2...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Mr. Probert: > > What part of my question did you not understand? I understood your question and your thoughts. You are nothing new in this newsgroup. > Let me spell it out for you word by word so in case you have retention > issues that you will be able to understand it correctly and not pull a > mumbo jumbo barrage of stupidity...... WOW! Are you a bad advertisement for alternative medicine, or what? > The question was: >>>>>How many > times have you had your colon cleansed?<<<<< How many times (hint: > this would time to count on your fingers and your toes the number of > times that you have had your colon cleansed). Why would I undergo a procedure that haa absolutely no benefit? As for your "try it, you'll like it" argument I do not need to jump off a bridge for me to know it is not a healthy thing to do. Save thing with the uselessness of cleansing. > My next statement was > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So, Mr. King of Diversion...what part of that statement did you not > understand? I understood your question and your tactics. I know it is uncomfortable for you, as you expected to pontificate to the group without being questioned. Well, you are wrong. > This means, I'm not going to stoop to your level of stupidity, and not > going to discuss anything further with you > because you lack any real first hand knowledge of alternative > health. No, it means that you have to find a way to weasel out of discussing it with someone who sees through your pathetic attempts to avoid facts, like it is dangerous. As for stooping, I suggest that you bend down and read a book on logic. > On Mar 9, 10:10 pm, "msmith2...@yahoo.com" <msmith2...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > discuss colon cleansing. I have not had it done so I cannot say if it is > helpful or not. Why are questions so difficult for you answer in an appropriate manner in this newsgroup and others? Colon cleansing is a very acceptable health care practice by even some conventional medicine types and if one were really to use their head, it is makes just plain sense. We cleanse our bodies on the outside every day. Why not the inside on occasion? Most of alternative health practices make good sense, and one has to almost believe that those that oppose it so much it so much appear not to use common sense in their thinking. Yet those that oppose alternative health practices belly ache that these methods do no good, yet mostly this group of blinded individuals haven't even tried a method that they claim already does not work. Claiming there is no scientific proof. Running off to look up research studies to see if they can find a pharmaceutical paid study to prove it doesn't work. Screaming "diversion" at the top of their lungs..diversion from what....???? No diversion, from alternative health cheerleaders, diversion from unrealistic people with limited common sense. Would I try an alternative health care approach if I saw what the side effects were on a pharmaceutical preparation first? Ofcourse...that would be "common sense". I do not understand your need to attempt to control this newsgroup with your rantings and ravings that make little sense. If you want to control something, buy a dog. If you want to climb back into the real world, before running your mouth, try something first before claiming it doesn't work....with more and more people turning to alternative forms of medicine, apparently there are more smarter people out there than you want to give credit to. > Why are questions so difficult for you answer in an appropriate > manner in this newsgroup and others? I have answered questions. YOU, toots, have not. YOU have diverted the thread and played silly games when you were shown unequivocal evidence of the dangers of colon cleansing. > Colon cleansing is a very acceptable health care practice by even some > conventional medicine types and if one were really to use their head, > it is makes just plain sense. It is not a very acceptable health care practice, if it is not needed. However, I can see your confusion from what you wrote. You use your head to cleanse your colon. Weird. We cleanse our bodies on the outside > every day. Why not the inside on occasion? Because the gastrointestinal system does it for you? It is automatic. Most of alternative > health practices make good sense, and one has to almost believe that > those that oppose it so much it so much appear not to use common sense > in their thinking. Nice poisoning of the well fallacious argument. First, you would have to prove that *most* alternative health practices make good sense. If this "good sense" is the same "good sense" you are using to justify colon cleansing, which has no value to a healthy person, and can be dangerous, then your "good sense" is nonsense. And, that, is common sense. > Yet those that oppose alternative health practices belly ache that > these methods do no good, yet mostly this group of blinded > individuals haven't even tried a method that they claim already does > not work. Like I pointed out, one does not need to jump off a bridge to know it is not good for you. The "try it, you'll like it" argument is specious. Claiming there is no scientific proof. Running off to look > up research studies to see if they can find a pharmaceutical paid > study to prove it doesn't work. Wrong. First, your substitution of conspiracy crap for facts is noted. Second, there is no physiological reason for cleansing. The colon does it all by itself. Screaming "diversion" at the top of > their lungs..diversion from what....???? No diversion, from > alternative health cheerleaders, diversion from unrealistic people > with limited common sense. You, and no one else, diverted the subject. YOU did it. > Would I try an alternative health care approach if I saw what the side > effects were on a pharmaceutical preparation first? Ofcourse...that > would be "common sense". See above for a correct analysis of your so-called "common sense." > I do not understand your need to attempt to control this newsgroup > with your rantings and ravings that make little sense. First, I am not trying to control anything. That is absurd. Second, I have been the one using common sense here. You are using non-sense. If you want to > control something, buy a dog. If you want to climb back into the real > world, before running your mouth, try something first before claiming > it doesn't work.... See above to see why this is a specious argument. with more and more people turning to alternative > forms of medicine, apparently there are more smarter people out there > than you want to give credit to. OOPS, another fallacious argument. > I have answered questions. YOU, toots, have not. YOU have diverted the > thread and played silly games when you were shown unequivocal evidence > of the dangers of colon cleansing. Toots? Do you always call all of the men that post here with this nickname? It makes my skin crawl; I wonder how many men feel this way about this nickname. Here is a website; it talks about the pros and cons. A consumer that pays good money for this type of treatment (although some insurances do pay for this alternative health practice) needs to have the ability to have all of the facts,not just the mumbo jumbo running out of your uninformed mouth, and then they can make their own decisions. This was an accepted practice in the 20's and 30's, and conventional doctors back then, had machines in their offices that they regularly used. From all of the information I have read on the subject in the past few days, it was only one clinic that had bacteria on their equipment caused problems. ONE Clinic, is the only information I was able to find out from my research. How many hospitals have caused deaths because of all of the germs and bacteria? http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/34968/358752.html?d=dmtContent At present there are research trials (scientific evidence) on this very subject matter happening in the U.S. according to the information I found. The results have not been published as of yet. Most colon therapists replace the good flora with an implant before finishing the procedure. >>I have answered questions. YOU, toots, have not. YOU have diverted the >>thread and played silly games when you were shown unequivocal evidence [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doctors back then, had machines in their offices that they regularly > used. Yes, that was in the time when the concept of 'auto-intoxication' (waste building up in your colon and making you sick) had some credit. However, doctors, specifically surgeons, tested the idea and noted that they never ever encountered this build up of waste inside the colon. So the notion was disregarded by real doctors, as was colonics. Alternative medicine however, as seems to be standard, ignored the evidence that the treatment and the notion behind it are bunk and went on sticking hoses up people's rear end. > From all of the information I have read on the subject in the > past few days, it was only one clinic that had bacteria on their > equipment caused problems. That is just one danger of colonics. Electrolyte imbalance is another. And you're still missing the main concept about risk - there has to be a benefit to offset the risk. Colon cleanses have NO benefit (to the patient that is, there is a benefit to the wallet of the alternative practitioner), therefor, all risks are unacceptable. > ONE Clinic, is the only information I was > able to find out from my research. How many hospitals have caused > deaths because of all of the germs and bacteria? There you have it: 1) how many lives have been saved by hospitals? Risk/benefit ratio, ya know; 2) even if, hypothetically, hospitals caused the death of each and every patient that was admitted, how would that justify injuring people with useless colon cleanses????? > http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/34968/358752.html?d=dmtContent > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Most colon therapists replace the good flora with an implant before > finishing the procedure. If they didn't start that total useless procedure in the first place, they wouldn't have to! How typical of alt-med, first cause a problem and then offer to solve it, for a price of course. Looks like Mr. "Doe" is a little hang-up about his anus. Wonder , did he go to a boys home when young? Was he a choirboy? Tell us, "John", what happened to your anus when you were young. Or is it just your suppressed desires? > Looks like Mr. "Doe" is a little hang-up about his anus. Wonder , did he go > to a boys home when young? Was he a choirboy? Tell us, "John", what happened > to your anus when you were young. Or is it just your suppressed desires? David, when people tell you that you are talking out of your a.s, they are using what is called 'a figure of speech'. They do not mean it literally. So you better stop hooking up your colonics machine to your mouth, because it appears you've been flushing out large chunks of your brain with it. And stop projecting your own sexual insecurity on other people. I think you'd be better of concentrating on your obvious problems. Oh, and while you're at it, please explain why people should subject themselves to a risky procedure which has NO benefit at all. A cogent reply to this question might earn you a rank above knucklewalker, which is where you are rated right now. >> Looks like Mr. "Doe" is a little hang-up about his anus. Wonder , did he >> go to a boys home when young? Was he a choirboy? Tell us, "John", what [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > nasty and less risky alternative medicine. I do note that you are heavy > into this colonic thing though. You should talk to your therapist about it > Looks like Mr. "Doe" is a little hang-up about his anus. Wonder , did he go > to a boys home when young? Was he a choirboy? Tell us, "John", what happened > to your anus when you were young. Or is it just your suppressed desires? Wow! That is feeble! >> I have answered questions. YOU, toots, have not. YOU have diverted the >> thread and played silly games when you were shown unequivocal evidence [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > nickname? It makes my skin crawl; I wonder how many men feel this way > about this nickname. Apologies...I misread your name as MS mith. > Here is a website; it talks about the pros and cons. A consumer that > pays good money for this type of treatment (although some insurances > do pay for this alternative health practice) I sure hope not. That would mean that as a consumer I am paying for quackery treatments. needs to have the > ability to have all of the facts,not just the mumbo jumbo running out > of your uninformed mouth, Well, unlike you, it at least comes from my MOUTH... and then they can make their own decisions. > This was an accepted practice in the 20's and 30's, So was using leeches and blood letting. and conventional > doctors back then, had machines in their offices that they regularly > used. From all of the information I have read on the subject in the > past few days, it was only one clinic that had bacteria on their > equipment caused problems. Red herring. I am addressing the usefulness of the "treatment" of cleansing. My comments stand regardless of how well it is done. It is still useless. ONE Clinic, is the only information I was > able to find out from my research. How many hospitals have caused > deaths because of all of the germs and bacteria? There ya go again, diverting from the uselessness and danger of colon cleansing. > http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8513/34968/358752.html?d=dmtContent "Colonic irrigation can potentially cause severe adverse effects and must be carefully administered. People receiving frequent treatments may absorb too much water, leading to electrolyte imbalances in the blood, nausea, vomiting, heart failure, fluid in the lungs, abnormal heart rhythms or coma. Infections have been reported, possibly because of contaminated equipment or as a result of clearing out normal colon bacteria. There is a risk of bowel perforation (breakage of the bowel wall), which is a severe complication. Deaths have been reported.? "Colonic irrigation has been recommended for many conditions. There are numerous anecdotes about successful treatment with colonic irrigation, although effectiveness and safety have not been thoroughly studied scientifically. Because of the potential risks involved, colonic irrigation may not be safe for many individuals." From YOUR site. IOW, it is dangerous without proven benefit. Like we have said all along. > At present there are research trials (scientific evidence) on this > very subject matter happening in the U.S. according to the information > I found. The results have not been published as of yet. So, you do not know whether it does squat. BTW, I predict that if the trials show it is useless, the cleanser-lovers will whine that the trials were fixed. Guaranteed. > Most colon therapists replace the good flora with an implant before > finishing the procedure. If the treatment is useless, and that is shown by the current state of real knowledge, then this is irrelevant. > > Toots? Do you always call all of the men that post here with this > > nickname? It makes my skin crawl; I wonder how many men feel this way > > about this nickname. > > Apologies...I misread your name as MS mith. No, you did not misread it, I have an email from you, where you claim to have looked at my profile, and make a claim of not knowing who I was. Apology accepted. > Red herring. I am addressing the usefulness of the "treatment" of > cleansing. My comments stand regardless of how well it is done. It is > still useless. I do not think I have ever been subject to a Know It All that knows as little as you do about alternative medicine. Considering you are not a medical practictioner of any type, I have a fascination for wanting to know where it is you getting all of this entertaining information. Are you a stand up comedian in real life? If not, I believe based on your writings and whinings you have indeed missed your calling. > ONE Clinic, is the only information I was > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > There ya go again, diverting from the uselessness and danger of colon > cleansing. No diversion. Just facts. > BTW, I predict that if the trials show it is useless, the > cleanser-lovers will whine that the trials were fixed. Guaranteed. But what I have read so far, is that they haven't been proven useless, but useful in many cases by real Medical doctors. http://www.tummytemple.com/seattle_colonics_irrigation.html > > Most colon therapists replace the good flora with an implant before > > finishing the procedure. > > If the treatment is useless, and that is shown by the current state of > real knowledge, then this is irrelevant. Glad you used the word IF...check out the doctors mentioned in the website above, real medical doctors with real licenses, I find that more important than someone without a medical license (like you and me), and who is doing their best to buck up against alternative health practices; nothing I dislike more than anything are those that claim to have a medical license and been certified, and then to find out they are nothing more than a whiner for the medical industry. >>> Toots? Do you always call all of the men that post here with this >>> nickname? It makes my skin crawl; I wonder how many men feel this way >>> about this nickname. >> Apologies...I misread your name as MS mith. > > No, you did not misread it, I have an email from you, I have an unsolicited email from you where you threatened me. where you claim > to have looked at my profile, and make a claim of not knowing who I > was. Apology accepted. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Glad you used the word IF...check out the doctors mentioned in the > website above, real medical doctors with real licenses, In AltMed, having a medical license is a BAD thing. It does not confer credibility. I find that > more important than someone without a medical license (like you and > me), and who is doing their best to buck up against alternative health > practices; nothing I dislike more than anything are those that claim > to have a medical license and been certified, and then to find out > they are nothing more than a whiner for the medical industry. On Mar 16, 12:52 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote: > msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>> Toots? Do you always call all of the men that post here with this [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > to have a medical license and been certified, and then to find out > > they are nothing more than a whiner for the medical industry. I did not threaten you. I just passed on the information to a reputable college for alternative health care. You claim your address is "private", and that I know, I would never post it here, on the internet, but I do know it is out in public records on the internet on a search that any member of the public can easily find. Stop whining, unless you have some good quality cheese to go with that whine. On Mar 17, 1:00 am, "msmith2...@yahoo.com" <msmith2...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 12:52 pm, Mark Probert <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > the internet, but I do know it is out in public records on the > internet on a search that any member of the public can easily find. The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for a big surprise. > Stop whining, unless you have some good quality cheese to go with that > whine.- No whining,, niwit, and I may post what you threatened here. > On Mar 17, 1:00 am, "msmith2...@yahoo.com" <msmith2...@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > > No whining,, niwit, and I may post what you threatened here. Another example of a so-called an so-claimed to be a kinder and gentler poster... Never mind Mark he tells lies every day. > The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for > a big surprise. A big surprise? With balloons and party hats? What are you talking about? This makes zero sense. > > Stop whining, unless you have some good quality cheese to go with that > > whine.- > > No whining,, niwit, and I may post what you threatened here. You were not threatened. You are not a "victim". I've noticed when someone says something you do not like, you claim you were "threatened," as it would appear you enjoy playing "the victim." You would appear not to have any real knowledge of colonics (personal experience) nor does it appear that you are willing to get that personal experience. It would appear after reading your posts that date back years and years and years that you really dislike alternative health care practices, and those that support them, and it would appear that your intent in these newsgroups is to harass and bully those individuals like myself that are interesting in learning more about these practices, and who have personal experience with them. It would appear that the women that post in this newsgroup, have been ridiculed and bullied by skeptics for having their own personal opinions and choices made fun of by individuals in that post in this newsgroup that have no personal experience in many matters whatsoever; I cannot figure out yet if it is a hobby for some, or if there are actual individuals that are being paid to spread the propaganda here. It appears to be almost cult-like in nature, and I'm trying to figure out which one is playing the role of the saviour...saving people from evil alternative medicine. The real victims here are those that support alternative health care practices not the bullies. You called me a Nitwit...I feel special. >> The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for >> a big surprise. > A big surprise? With balloons and party hats? What are you talking > about? This makes zero sense. Zero? Nope. The first suprise is that they are not me. The second? I do not want to ruin the surprise. >>> Stop whining, unless you have some good quality cheese to go with that >>> whine.- >> No whining,, niwit, and I may post what you threatened here. > > You were not threatened. I was threatened by you. You threatened to take a newsgroup discussion outside of the newsgroup. I call that a threat. > You are not a "victim". Never said I was. However, continuing on that threat and it may change. I've noticed when > someone says something you do not like, you claim you were > "threatened," Oh? Now do go toddle off and show me where I have said that? Be very specific. > as it would appear you enjoy playing "the victim." Alties like to do that, as they think it bolsters their credibility. I don't. You > would appear not to have any real knowledge of colonics (personal > experience) Nor do I have experience jumping off a bridge. I still know that it is not a good thing to do. nor does it appear that you are willing to get that > personal experience. Why would I undergo a useless procedure? It would appear after reading your posts that > date back years and years and years that you really dislike > alternative health care practices, For the most part, quite true. I think that most alt practices are utterly bogus and a scam. > and those that support them, Depends on the methodology of the support. Logic and reason work quite well with me. When you post something like that, I'll let you know. and it > would appear that your intent in these newsgroups is to harass and > bully those individuals like myself that are interesting in learning > more about these practices, and who have personal experience with > them. In AltWorld, questioning validity is called bullying. > It would appear that the women that post in this newsgroup, > have been ridiculed and bullied by skeptics for having their own > personal opinions and choices made fun of by individuals in that post > in this newsgroup that have no personal experience in many matters > whatsoever; Wrong. Those who have been ridiculed in this newsgroup initiated and continued abusive behavior. I cannot figure out yet if it is a hobby for some, or if > there are actual individuals that are being paid to spread the > propaganda here. Some have seen people hurt with alt med. It appears to be almost cult-like in nature, and I'm > trying to figure out which one is playing the role of the > saviour...saving people from evil alternative medicine. The cults are pro-altmed. > The real victims here are those that support alternative health care > practices not the bullies. You called me a Nitwit...I feel special. Of course you want to claim victimhood. It is the only way to support your arguments. > msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > Of course you want to claim victimhood. It is the only way to support > your arguments. It would appear that you are making less and less sense. While I enjoy a good challenging debate, and GOOD discussion, I do not enjoy a control freak who cannot accept people's ideas, and whose sole intention of posting in a newsgroup is to disrupt the flow of natural discussion regarding a subject. Anyone without any personal actual experience is always a red flag in my book, and that's why I enjoy researching a subject matter on my own, and would never base my participation in that practice based on something I read in a newsgroup from someone that engages in closed mind thinking, and without the blessing of my conventional physician. As more and more people, insurance companies, and coventional medical physicians are turning to alternative methods in health care, you have to wonder why there are still those small minded people that are still jumping up and down, and yelling, "no, no, no!".....unless ofcourse they have something to monetarily gain from a situation. I'm sticking a fork in you....you and I are "done"....as far as I am concerned, you can post all that you want, to anything I write, and I am going to simply ignore you from now on. I do not associate myself with closed minded people, and based on your rantings and ravings, it would appear that you qualify. >>msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > experience is always a red flag in my book, and that's why I enjoy > researching a subject matter on my own, So you really have jumped of a bridge? > and would never base my > participation in that practice based on something I read in a > newsgroup from someone that engages in closed mind thinking, and > without the blessing of my conventional physician. As more and more > people, insurance companies, and coventional medical physicians are > turning to alternative methods in health care, Boy, there really isn't a piece of alt-med bullshit that you do not swallow hook, line and sinker. > you have to wonder why > there are still those small minded people that are still jumping up > and down, and yelling, "no, no, no!".....unless ofcourse they have > something to monetarily gain from a situation. Are you a sock puppet for PeterB? Sure sounds like it. > I'm sticking a fork in you....you and I are "done"....as far as I am > concerned, you can post all that you want, to anything I write, and I > am going to simply ignore you from now on. I do not associate myself > with closed minded people, and based on your rantings and ravings, it > would appear that you qualify. "JohnDoe" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message news:45ff904a$0$14700 > nothing worth reading. > "JohnDoe" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message news:45ff904a$0$14700 > > > > nothing worth reading. And you have the chutzpah to call other people 'close minded'. Incredible. "JohnDoe" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message news:46000065$0$11825 > "JohnDoe" <dont@spam.me> wrote in message news:46000065$0$11825 Davey, this is your most insightful post ever. > > "JohnDoe" <d...@spam.me> wrote in message news:45ff904a$0$14700 > > > > nothing worth reading. > > And you have the chutzpah to call other people 'close minded'. Incredible. It would appear that you need a fork in you also.....you are almost as done as your buddy. You are very right, David, they are done.....nothing that they speak about is worth too much of anything. >>>"JohnDoe" <d...@spam.me> wrote in message news:45ff904a$0$14700 >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You are very right, David, they are done.....nothing that they speak > about is worth too much of anything. So you can not handle the facts either. >>> "JohnDoe" <d...@spam.me> wrote in message news:45ff904a$0$14700 >>> > nothing worth reading. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You are very right, David, they are done.....nothing that they speak > about is worth too much of anything. I have been sitting here and reading the exchange between and Probert and you and JohnDoe and you. You accuse them of doing precisely what you do. I think you are a plant by organized pharma to make alt medders look like jerks. > You accuse them of doing precisely what you do. > > I think you are a plant by organized pharma to make alt medders look > like jerks. I think you are sadly mistaken. I'm researching alternative health therapies, and proving there are alternatives to try. I believe that each segments of our health care industry does not have all of the answers to all of the questions; but I am starting to believe in colonics....even if John Doe doesn't understand this literature. Colonic irrigations: a review of the historical controversy and the potential for adverse effects. Richards DG, McMillin DL, Mein EA, Nelson CD. Meridian Institute, Virginia Beach, VA, USA. Colonic irrigations enjoy widespread popularity among alternative medicine practitioners, although they are viewed with considerable skepticism by the conventional medical community. Although proponents make claims of substantial health benefits, skeptics cite the lack of evidence for health benefits and emphasize the potential for adverse effects. Yet historically, there are clinical reports of effectiveness and virtually no research refuting these reports. Instead there was a campaign against exaggerated claims by nonmedical practitioners that resulted in a movement away from this form of therapy without any scientific study of efficacy. Given the current popularity of colonic irrigations, it is important that such research be performed, which will require a quantitative estimate of the potential for adverse effects. Although there is little specific literature on colonic irrigations, a review of the literature on related procedures such as enemas and sigmoidoscopies suggests that the risk of serious adverse effects is very low when the irrigations are performed by trained personnel using appropriate equipment. PMID: 16722789 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE >> You accuse them of doing precisely what you do. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > but I am starting to believe in colonics....even if John Doe doesn't > understand this literature. Incorrect. JohnDoe fully understands it. He has said that there is no evidence of efficacy, i.e., usefulness, while there is a risk, albeit small, associated with it. The article abstract refers to non medically trained people performing this, and, they are the ones who pose the risk. > Colonic irrigations: a review of the historical controversy and the > potential [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > performed by trained personnel using appropriate equipment. > PMID: 16722789 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE >>You accuse them of doing precisely what you do. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > are clinical reports of effectiveness and virtually no research refuting > these reports. So there are plenty of anecdotes, but no evidence of effectiveness. Historically, there are also loads of clinical report of effectiveness for bloodletting. And BTW, effectiveness for what? > Instead there was a campaign against exaggerated claims by > nonmedical practitioners that resulted in a movement away from this form of > therapy without any scientific study of efficacy. So again, they say there is no evidence of efficacy. > Given the current popularity of colonic > irrigations, it is important that such research be performed, which > will require a quantitative estimate of the potential for adverse effects. So, again, according to this there is no research data, but that doesn't stop you for claiming colonics is good for you (and safe). > Although there is little specific literature on colonic irrigations, a review of the > literature on related procedures such as enemas and sigmoidoscopies suggests > that the risk of serious adverse effects is very low when the > irrigations are performed by trained personnel using appropriate equipment. > PMID: 16722789 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE The 'related procedures such as enemas and sigmoidoscopies' are not colonics, so whatever data they have on that is totally irrelevant. Thank you for showing clearly that you base your opinion on colonics on zero data. >>> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > Boy, there really isn't a piece of alt-med bullshit that you do not > swallow hook, line and sinker. That is a standard alt med treatment for attacks of reason and logic. >> you have to wonder why >> there are still those small minded people that are still jumping up >> and down, and yelling, "no, no, no!".....unless ofcourse they have >> something to monetarily gain from a situation. > > Are you a sock puppet for PeterB? Sure sounds like it. Doubtful. TrueBelievers of Alt Med all sound alike. >> I'm sticking a fork in you....you and I are "done"....as far as I am >> concerned, you can post all that you want, to anything I write, and I >> am going to simply ignore you from now on. I do not associate myself >> with closed minded people, and based on your rantings and ravings, it >> would appear that you qualify. >> msmith2...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > > It would appear that you are making less and less sense. I know that this is your perception of what is happening. It is one of those side effects of when I use logic on Alties. While I enjoy > a good challenging debate, and GOOD discussion, I do not enjoy a > control freak who cannot accept people's ideas, and whose sole > intention of posting in a newsgroup is to disrupt the flow of natural > discussion regarding a subject. As usual, you have it backwards. I am not disrupting anything. I am disagreeing with you, and pointing out your shortcomings and tactics. Anyone without any personal actual > experience is always a red flag in my book, I found that book in the fiction section. It is right next to the book of illogic you use. and that's why I enjoy > researching a subject matter on my own, and would never base my > participation in that practice based on something I read in a > newsgroup from someone that engages in closed mind thinking That is one of Alt Meds problems. Alties reject Real Evidence so they can retain their firmly held beliefs. In fact, questioning their firmly held beliefs causes them serious attacks of ILLogic and scares the cleanse by-products out of them. , and > without the blessing of my conventional physician. I sure hope that you keep your Real Doctor fully informed of your alternative practices. Not telling him/her is unfair to them. As more and more > people, insurance companies, and coventional medical physicians are > turning to alternative methods in health care, Have you ever actually read the studies on this phenomena, and do you know what is considered "alternative" in those studies? you have to wonder why > there are still those small minded people Good technique, straight from Alt Logic 101. Call anyone who disagrees with you close minded. It is a technique called "poisoning the well." that are still jumping up > and down, and yelling, "no, no, no!".....unless ofcourse they have > something to monetarily gain from a situation. Well, I must congratulate you. It took you somewhat longer than the average Altie "substitute conspiracy theory for facts" when all else fails. > I'm sticking a fork in you Cannibalism is not approved Alt treatment. ....you and I are "done"....as far as I am > concerned, you can post all that you want, to anything I write, and I > am going to simply ignore you from now on. Good idea. I assume you won't mind if I refer to you as three monkeys? I took a really great pic of them above a pub in Sydney a few weeks ago. Want a copy? I do not associate myself > with closed minded people, and based on your rantings and ravings, it > would appear that you qualify. Rantings and ravings? Au contraire, my posts to you have been quite calm and direct. >>> The address posted here is NOT mine. Anyone contacting them is in for >>> a big surprise. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I was threatened by you. You threatened to take a newsgroup discussion > outside of the newsgroup. I call that a threat. Oh my. H Y P O C R I T E.............. >> You are not a "victim". > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh? Now do go toddle off and show me where I have said that? Be very > specific. Besides being a bully, he has a control problem Mark Probert the Internet Bully This morning, the San Jose Mercury, a highly rated newspaper, contained a full-page ad for a colon cleanse PILL called CHC - Colon Health Complete. The ad talks about the metabolic waste, toxins, and parasites that have been building up in your body for years. You will also have a much flatter stomach. They imply FDA approval, but this junk is not approved by the FDA. Of course, no one with any intelligence would order this product. The Mercury runs ads for these fake products frequestly. It is sad that many uninformed people will buy this junk. Robert > This morning, the San Jose Mercury, a highly rated newspaper, contained a > full-page ad for a colon cleanse PILL called CHC - Colon Health Complete. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Robert ANNNND!!! "Robert" is fully trained in ALL forms of alternative medicine. "Robert" has done extensive research with a "highly rated" lab to be able to post absolute proof that his opinion is the ONLY way. Why I would not be surprised if "Robert" was the absolute authority on just about everything medical. So, Bobby, when and where did you do all that research on alternative medicine? You do have extensive experience as a researcher and in alternative medicine do you not? Please post about it and save us all. Thank you David. >>This morning, the San Jose Mercury, a highly rated newspaper, contained a >>full-page ad for a colon cleanse PILL called CHC - Colon Health Complete. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and in alternative medicine do you not? Please post about it and save us > all. Thank you David. Davey, please finally answer these questions, which have been asked you a couple of times in one form or another: 1) Do you think jumping of a 40 story building (without a parachute) is good for you or not? 2) What is your experience with jumping of 40 story buildings? Do you have extensive experience as a researcher in jumping off buildings? What research have you done regarding jumping of 40 story buildings? Remember, you *must* have *personal* experience, or anything you say about it is absolutely worthless. > This morning, the San Jose Mercury, a highly rated newspaper, contained a > full-page ad for a colon cleanse PILL called CHC - Colon Health Complete. > The ad talks about the metabolic waste, toxins, and parasites that have been > building up in your body for years. You will also have a much flatter > stomach. They imply FDA approval, but this junk is not approved by the FDA. Could be if it's sold as a food supplement. > Of course, no one with any intelligence would order this product. I beg to differ. In my experience, it has more to do with being uninformed, as you do note below. But being unintelligent and being uninformed very often go together, I'll grant you that. > The Mercury runs ads for these fake products frequestly. The media don't care. As long as it pays, ethics don't seem to be important. Anything for ratings and advertisers. It's sad. > It is sad that many uninformed people will buy this junk. > > Robert Jan said>>>>> > Besides being a bully, he has a control problem > > Mark Probert the Internet Bully<<<<<< Mrs. Drew: Have you ever considered just ignoring those that would appear to lack an appreciation for alternative health care that regularly post here? I have read many posts here over the course of this newsgroups history, and it would appear that there are some that just have no real interest in even taking part in alternative health care therapies, or doing their own personal research to see if some of the alternative therapies would work for their health care issues that conventional medicine does not have the answer to. And as it would appear, I would guess that some of them might not have health care issues that even pertain to the subject they are attempting to discuss; so it seems indeed silly even to acknowledge their presence. When they don't get what they are looking for, they might understand that it doesn't matter what they write, that those that appreciate alternative health care choices really don't care what they write. I was advised to just ignore those; and I will continue to do so. I really have appreciated your information about mercury in the mouth, and I am in the process of doing some research of my own. It is a good wakeup call to learn about the alternatives to amalgams. Thank you for continuing to share your research with the group. > Jan said>>>>> >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > good wakeup call to learn about the alternatives to amalgams. Thank > you for continuing to share your research with the group. Thanks for the kind words. I understand what you are saying about Mark and those who are of the *gang*. They are here for one purpose to disrupt and protect *organized medicine and dentistry*. The lies are what I hate as they can and do hurt those who are seeking to find their health problems. Be Well and God Bless. Jan I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I have no clue as to why anyone would want to go through a colon cleanse on purpose. It's very disruptive to the system, first off, and more important it can be dangerous and cause major problems to the system from loss of good bacteria to even causing damage (sometimes minor, sometimes major which requires surgery). If you are thinking of doing something like this, please check out the pros and cons of this. I don't remember seeing you here before this, mssmith2911, but really your colon will clean itself out. If you are having medical problems then I seriously suggest seeing a good GI to find your problem and to address it. I have crohn's disease, do you have any IBD going on? Please be careful, this kind of thing is really not something to do just for the heck of it. It will not help with other problems like arthritis and so forth. I haven't read this whole thread but I just felt the need to give some input about this. This has been talked about a lot on multiple newsgroups and other sites about it helping us with IBD and it gets laughed at since most of us with IBD have to do a clean out at least once a year or more. If you do not have IBD, try to up the amount of fiber you take in to clean yourself out. Fruits and veggies are good for this if you do not have any form of IBD. (People with IBD have a lot of diet restrictions) Good luck to you. UM MOM Susan > I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who > medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > colon. Seems that if they can evacuate well, the arthritis is lessened. > David >> I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who >> medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> colon. Seems that if they can evacuate well, the arthritis is lessened. >> David This is about colon cleansing. I have never tried acupuncture so it might help, don't know. Plus a colon cleanse is quite different then acupuncture. UM MOM Susan >>> I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who >>> medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > research. I wager that if R had some money invested in the company making > and selling the pill, he would sing a different tune. David >>I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who >>medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >colon. Seems that if they can evacuate well, the arthritis is lessened. >David David, why are you totally ignoring her opinions on colon cleanses? She has actual experience and sound advice on the matter, yet you reply as if she didn't mention the subject at all. Could that be because her firsthand knowledge and experience does not support you preconceived notions? I am not ignoring Susan. I am asking about the opinion on arthritis. > I am not ignoring Susan. I am asking about the opinion on arthritis. 1) try to quote the posts you are replying to 2) I didn't say you were ignore *her*, I said you ignored what she had to say about colon cleanses. >I am not ignoring Susan. I am asking about the opinion on arthritis. To me, a colon cleanse is NOT going to help my osteoarthritis. At least it hasn't yet and I have been cleansed many times since '99. As for acupuncture, some on my group have had success, short term, for pain. UM MOM Susan > I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who > medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > this if you do not have any form of IBD. (People with IBD have a lot of > diet restrictions) Good luck to you. UM MOM Susan Susan: You are right, colon cleansing is not for certain ailments; here is the website of colon therapists. I am sure you will find your IBD listed here. IBD---I Be Dizzy!! (is that what it stands for?....some people with IBD are dizzy!) http://www.colonhealth.net/colon_hydrotherapy/ct_qanda.htm My medical ailments are not your business nor the business of anyone else in the world; certainly, you are free to tell the world of your IBD, which you have just done with your post. You do not remember seeing me post before? Are you the moderator of this group, and in charge of who can post here and who cannot? If not, then do not worry about it. Legally speaking, it would appear that anyone can post here, correct? And more importantly those that have a deep interest in alternative health care would be more than able to post here, correct? Hopefully you understand my point. >> I'm going to add my two cents into this discussion. As someone who >> medically has to do colon preps multiple times a year, I have to say I [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > have a deep interest in alternative health care would be more than > able to post here, correct? Hopefully you understand my point. First I don't post here very often at all and no there is no moderator. IBD is Irritable Bowel Disease, crohn's in my case. I understand what you are saying, what I am saying though is it's not fun to do a colon cleanse. With me having to do it at least once a year and usually more, I really don't understand why anyone would want to do this on purpose. UM MOM Susan > First I don't post here very often at all and no there is no moderator. IBD > is Irritable Bowel Disease, crohn's in my case. I understand what you are > saying, what I am saying though is it's not fun to do a colon cleanse. With > me having to do it at least once a year and usually more, I really don't > understand why anyone would want to do this on purpose. UM MOM Susan I've had several before, but I am engaging in a research project to discover if it will help with a couple of medical issues that my conventional doctor does not have a "magic pill" for and for which I have would like to try other alternatives to see if possibly the colon cleanse will work. I understand with the assistance of my conventional doctor that colon cleansing might work, which for me is worth the $$$ I will invest; as if it does work for me, and only he will be able to determine if it does, then it will have a dramatic effect on my health. I'm doing it on purpose to see if this will help my medical issues, and be more healthy. There is a reason people do things on purpose, and that only purpose is so that they feel better as a result. There is nothing wrong with wanting that, is there, Susan? If ones only purpose is complain about something they cannot use because their own health care issues will not benefit from it, and possibly someone's else can benefit from it, then it comes across as sour grapes. I am assuming you do not wish to come across as being a sour grape, am I correct with my assumption? >> First I don't post here very often at all and no there is no moderator. >> IBD [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > sour grapes. I am assuming you do not wish to come across as being a > sour grape, am I correct with my assumption? I wish you well in your trying this. Just a few hints if you do, get the wet wipes to help with cleaning up and irritations. Good luck to you and I'd be interested in hearing how it helped or not for the medical problems you are talking about. UM MOM Susan >>> First I don't post here very often at all and no there is no moderator. >>> IBD [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I'd be interested in hearing how it helped or not for the medical problems > you are talking about. UM MOM Susan Sorry curiousity is getting the better of me, what medical conditions are you hoping to help with this if you don't mind saying? UM MOM Susan > Sorry curiousity is getting the better of me, what medical conditions are > you hoping to help with this if you don't mind saying? UM MOM Susan I do mind; it is not your business and nor the rest of the world's either!! I've said that all along, what part of this do you not understand? Is En |
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