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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / November 2005Cranial Adjustment?
During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor said that through manipulating the bones in the skull he had allowed non-verbal autistics to speak and greatly improved the condition of people with Chronic Fatigue Sydrome and other disorders such as ADD, he talked about a few of these people. He said that misalignments in the skull caused by head injuries either from the birthing process or from accidents can contribute to a variety of health problems such as those. He did mention that this is different from craniosacral therapy which involves fluids in the brain. Do any of you have any experience with this type of therapy? Have you ever been to a chiropractor who practices this kind of treatment? Is there any other source of information regarding this treatment? Obviously, I'm very skeptical to let someone manipulate the bones in my skull, so I would appreciate any information on this. Thanks! > During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I > attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks! Professional pick pockets distract the mark in various ways. Cranial manipulation must be a new one. I've obviously posted in the wrong group! > I've obviously posted in the wrong group! Not at all. You got the best advice you could pay for in usenet. The fact is that the claim that the bones that comprise the skull can be manipulated is utterly absurd. Further, the idea that this can address AD/HD is even more absurd. You said you were skeptical, so let me direct you to http://scholar.google.com/ and sucggest that you do a search there. You may find something, but, I doubt it. > I've obviously posted in the wrong group! So, do you want advice or warm fuzzy support for something you really want to be true? The truth is that once the sutures fuse, (and a baby's fontanelles or 'soft spots' close) the cranium is one solid sturdy box, and even the strongest chiropractor's thumbs are not going to be moving the bones around. Only the mandible, the hyoid, and, to some extent the nasal septum are mobile. Moving those is not going to help autism or ADD, nor would moving any of the bones comprising the cranial vault. "Cranial Adjustment" is a fraud, designed to extract money from the naive.  Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. Here is a link that you may find interesting. http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf > This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for > assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. In what way have you been insulted? > Here is a link that you may find interesting. > http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf It isn't. It's a hodgepodge of long-discredited ancient ideas that have been resurrected to make a worthless "treatment" seem useful. Ask yourself this: If the claims are true, why isn't there any decent research that confirms them? Why isn't there any theory that predicts them to be likely or possible? moo >> This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for >> assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. > > In what way have you been insulted? Professional pick pockets distract the mark in various ways. Cranial manipulation must be a new one. You got the best advice you could pay for in usenet. The fact is that the claim that the bones that comprise the skull can be manipulated is utterly absurd. Further, the idea that this can address AD/HD is even more absurd. So, do you want advice or warm fuzzy support for something you really want to be true? The truth is that once the sutures fuse, (and a baby's fontanelles or 'soft spots' close) the cranium is one solid sturdy box, and even the strongest chiropractor's thumbs are not going to be moving the bones around. Only the mandible, the hyoid, and, to some extent the nasal septum are mobile. Moving those is not going to help autism or ADD, nor would moving any of the bones comprising the cranial vault. "Cranial Adjustment" is a fraud, designed to extract money from the naive. >> Here is a link that you may find interesting. >> http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf > > It isn't. It's a hodgepodge of long-discredited Discredited by whom? ancient ideas that have > been resurrected to make a worthless "treatment" seem useful. WRONG. Ask yourself > this: If the claims are true, why isn't there any decent ZZzz. *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable* *significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct* *unreliable* *decent* research that > confirms them? Why isn't there any theory that predicts them to be likely > or possible? > > moo http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html > >> This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for > >> assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > research that > > confirms them? Exactly. Jan finally got a clue. > Why isn't there any theory that predicts them to be likely > > or possible? > > > > moo <snip Lollicrap> >>>This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for >>>assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Further, the idea that this can address AD/HD is even more absurd. There are no insults to the poster there. Just facts, which you abhor. > So, do you want advice or warm fuzzy support for something you really want > to be true? The truth is that once the sutures fuse, (and a baby's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would moving any of the bones comprising the cranial vault. "Cranial > Adjustment" is a fraud, designed to extract money from the naive. More facts that refute the possibility that the chiropractor is telling the truth. >>>Here is a link that you may find interesting. >>>http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf >> >>It isn't. It's a hodgepodge of long-discredited > Discredited by whom? Intelligent people. IOW, not you. > ancient ideas that have > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > *significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct* *unreliable* > *decent* Yawn...that is not intelligent discussion. > research that > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html Chronic Trigeminal Neuralgia is not the same, or even close to, autism and AD/HD. There is no comparison what-so-ever. >>> This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for >>> assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html "Discredited by whom? WRONG. ZZzz." And your usual list of qualities that you don't find important in research or science opinion, are the sum total of your own words in this post. There is no discussion here, no content, no contribution, only disruption. You not only are incapable of discussion, you can't resist the temptation to disrupt a discussion when one begins in this newsgroup. I'm all in favor of free speech, but nothing you post here really qualifies as speech. So, either sh.t or get off the pot; contribute or go away. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ http://www.hamsterdance.com/classorig.html >>>> This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for >>>> assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > WRONG. > ZZzz." > http://www.hamsterdance.com/classorig.html Jan, that does not add anything to the discussion and is disruptive. >>>>>This is the first time I have posted here. I was looking for >>>>>assistance. I was not looking to be insulted. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >>WRONG. >>ZZzz." I've obviously posted in the wrong group! > During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I > attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks! http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html Cranial and Other Chiropractic Adjustments in the Conservative Treatment of Chronic Trigeminal Neuralgia: A Case Report FRANK O. PEDERICK ABSTRACT: Trigeminal neuralgia, sometimes called tic douloureux, is characterised by episodes of electric-shock-like pain in areas of the face where branches of the trigeminal nerve are distributed. Medical treatment includes pharmaceuticals, analgesics, surgery, radiosurgery, low-powered lasers, TENS, acupuncture and biofeedback. Manipulative approaches have been used successfully in a medical centre in China, and reports of successful treatment with chiropractic techniques have been published. The patient in this report had a history of right-sided facial pain, diagnosed as trigeminal neuralgia, over a 6-year period with remissions after dental or medical treatment and exacerbations, the most recent of 2 months duration. Prior to cranial and other chiropractic adjustments, the patient had continuous pain that she rated at 9.5 on the visual analogue scale, and after 4 consultations over an 11-day period, pain had reduced to 0.5. Spinal and cranial adjusting potentially affects a wide range of causes of trigeminal neuralgia and offers a conservative, low-cost, low-technology initial approach which, if ineffective, will not greatly delay or inhibit other treatment. Occasional maintenance care may be required in some instances to reduce occurrences. INDEX TERMS: MeSH: CHIROPRACTIC; TRIGEMINAL NEURALGIA. Other: CRANIAL ADJUSTING, SPINAL ADJUSTING; CRANIAL MANIPULATIVE THERAPY; SPINAL MANIPULATIVE THERAPY; SOFT TISSUE THERAPY. Chiropr J Aust 2005; 35:9-15 ==== http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_06.html >>During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I >>attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_06.html Interesting *case report*. I hope it can be repeated for others who suffer from trigemminal neuralgia. However, that being said, it does not in any manner support the chiropractors claim that he can treat AD/HD or autism with cranial manipulation. the skull is one solid bone. It cannot be moved. The entire purpose of using helmets is to prevent any injury to the skull. >>>During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I >>>attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > manipulation. the skull is one solid bone. It cannot be moved. The entire > purpose of using helmets is to prevent any injury to the skull. http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf >>>>During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I >>>>attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > http://www.turnerwellness.com/media/cranial-adjusting-mike.pdf Yes, Dr. Turner, whom I suspect is the chiropractor referred to by the OP, is promoting this. However, he offers NO PROOF that it works. None. Zero. Not even a decent anecdote. >>>>> During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention >>>>> center), I [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > OP, is promoting this. However, he offers NO PROOF that it works. None. > Zero. Not even a decent anecdote. Darn...hit that send button too soon... Yes, it is Turner who was the chiropractor that the OP referred to: TURNER WELLNESS Barrie ON *143 Chiropractic Cranial Adjustment http://www.wholelifeexpo.ca/expo2005/exhibit.html Turner is an "exhibitor" and did not present any form of research that is referenced on that website. > During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I > attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks! Cranial adjustment is a fraud. Period. The bones in the skull are solidly fused and can't be moved. And concerning the cases he mentioned, if he can show any of them to real I think he'd be eligible for the Nobel Prize in medicine. Since this stuff has been around for a while, don't you find it interesting no chiropractor has won the Nobel Prize yet? http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html >> During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I >> attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > medicine. Since this stuff has been around for a while, don't you find it > interesting no chiropractor has won the Nobel Prize yet? > http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html There is nothing at this link that supports "cranial adjustment" except a case history report that is undocumented and not really convincing at all. To show that "cranial adjustment" "works," it would first be necessary to prove that bones in the skull can be "adjusted" at all. This case history is the equivalent of claiming that one has cured his patient of diabetes by levitating him four feet off the floor for five hours. Levitation just might have a curative effect on diabetics, but first the practitioner must prove that he can do the levitation in the first place. It takes a great amount of force to move the bones of the skull. These bones are so solidly fused in adults that skull fractures usually do not even follow the margins of the individual bones but behave as though the skull were one solid bone. When enough force is applied to the skull to actually move bone, that is a skull fracture, and this usually results in concussion syndrome and often even permanent brain injury. That isn't something you want to try as a cure for facial tics. What is probably really happening is that Turner, et.al., are pressing around on the scalp with enough force to cause discomfort in the patient, which is convincing enough to make him believe that cranial bones have been moved. To do this to children is clearly abuse, and to do it to autistic children against their revulsion at being touched by others is particularly heinous abuse deserving of prosecution and imprisonment. If you are going to proclaim that skeptical refutations of "cranial adjustment" are "WRONG," Jan, at least explain what exactly is 'wrong' about the skeptics' comments. Participate in the discussion. Don't just disrupt. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ http://www.hamsterdance.com/classorig.html >> http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html > http://www.hamsterdance.com/classorig.html Jan, that is not a way to encourage discussion. It is disruptive. >>>http://www.chiropractors.asn.au/cjournal/vol35/cjamarch05.html Here is what you snipped. Please try to post something substantive. There is nothing at this link that supports "cranial adjustment" except a case history report that is undocumented and not really convincing at all. To show that "cranial adjustment" "works," it would first be necessary to prove that bones in the skull can be "adjusted" at all. This case history is the equivalent of claiming that one has cured his patient of diabetes by levitating him four feet off the floor for five hours. Levitation just might have a curative effect on diabetics, but first the practitioner must prove that he can do the levitation in the first place. It takes a great amount of force to move the bones of the skull. These bones are so solidly fused in adults that skull fractures usually do not even follow the margins of the individual bones but behave as though the skull were one solid bone. When enough force is applied to the skull to actually move bone, that is a skull fracture, and this usually results in concussion syndrome and often even permanent brain injury. That isn't something you want to try as a cure for facial tics. What is probably really happening is that Turner, et.al., are pressing around on the scalp with enough force to cause discomfort in the patient, which is convincing enough to make him believe that cranial bones have been moved. To do this to children is clearly abuse, and to do it to autistic children against their revulsion at being touched by others is particularly heinous abuse deserving of prosecution and imprisonment. If you are going to proclaim that skeptical refutations of "cranial adjustment" are "WRONG," Jan, at least explain what exactly is 'wrong' about the skeptics' comments. Participate in the discussion. Don't just disrupt. -- --Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ Why don't you mention the name of the chiropractor? http://www.turnerwellness.com/roger_CV.htm The Whole Life Expo is Canada's number one playground for quacks. I had my head adjusted a few years ago by Turner and have the pictures to prove it. My guess is that I need an overhaul somewhere between my occiput and right parietal bone. I am really sorry about missing the show again this year. For an overview of the problem with this fellow I found this for your pleasure: http://www.chirowatch.com/cw-ontario-chiros.html#rogerturner http://www.chirowatch.com/chiro-practices/Chiro-Ontario/Turner-Roger/cco2002disc ipline.html Were his sons with him this year? They want to be chiropractors so I was told by one of them. > During Whole Life Expo 2005 (at the metro toronto convention center), I > attended a lecture called "Cranial Misalignments". The chiropractor [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks! > Why don't you mention the name of the chiropractor? Turner seems to be the only one pushing cranial adjustment, unless you count Jan Drew. > http://www.turnerwellness.com/roger_CV.htm > > The Whole Life Expo is Canada's number one playground for quacks. From reading their website, I know I could not get a decent hamburger at this event. > I had my head adjusted a few years ago by Turner and have the pictures > to prove it. My guess is that I need an overhaul somewhere between my [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >>Thanks! |
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