Medical Forum / General / Alternative / October 2005
AIDS Drug Maker to Pay $704M in Settlement
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Roman Bystrianyk - 17 Oct 2005 23:34 GMT MARK SHERMAN, "AIDS Drug Maker to Pay $704M in Settlement", ABC News, October 17, 2005, Link: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1223329
The Swiss manufacturer of the AIDS treatment drug Serostim agreed Monday to pay $704 million and plead guilty to scheming to boost sagging sales by, among other things, offering kickbacks to doctors to write prescriptions.
As part of the plea, Serono Laboratories will be barred from participating in federal health programs for five years and will pay a criminal fine of $136.9 million and civil penalties of $567 million.
The amount is the third largest payment for health care fraud, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said in announcing the plea agreement. "Serono put its desire to sell more Serostim above the interests of patients and the public," Gonzales said at a news conference at the Justice Department.
Thomas G. Gunning, Serono's vice president and general counsel in the United States, said, "This settlement concludes a four-year government investigation into commercial practices related to Serostim, and we are pleased to put the matter behind us. The activities described in the settlement were confined to one unit in our U.S. operations and cover a brief period in our history." The company's U.S. headquarters is in Rockland, Mass., a half hour south of Boston.
Serostim, which contains the human growth hormone Somatropin, was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1996 to treat AIDS wasting, an often-fatal condition involving severe weight loss.
At about the time the FDA approved the drug, protease inhibitor drugs came on the market. Those drugs, when used in combinations or "cocktails," sharply curtailed the AIDS virus in patients, making them less prone to AIDS wasting.
Serono offered doctors free trips to the south of France in return for agreeing to write up to 30 new prescriptions for Serostim, which cost $21,000 for a 12-week treatment regimen, said Michael Sullivan, the U.S. Attorney in Boston.
The company also conspired to introduce a new test for AIDS wasting, despite not having FDA approval. The test diagnosed AIDS wasting even in the absence of weight loss, Sullivan said.
He estimated that 85 percent of Serostim prescriptions were unnecessary.
Five former Serono executives also have been indicted, he said.
The federal investigation grew out of whistleblower lawsuits filed by U.S. employees of Serono. Four people will split $51 million as their share of the settlement, which is allowed under the federal False Claims Act, Sullivan said.
Monday's settlement is the latest in a series of whistleblower claims that have resulted in more than $3 billion in payments from drug companies in recent years.
Last month, GlaxoSmithKline PLC said it will pay $150 million to settle claims it overcharged the government for two anti-nausea drugs
Federal and state officials are looking into 150 price and marketing fraud cases involving more than 500 drugs, according to Peter Keisler, assistant attorney general in charge of the Justice Department's Civil Division.
Gary Stein - 18 Oct 2005 01:31 GMT It's a completely misleading statement to say that Serostim is an AIDS treatment drug. It is not an ARV medication. Serostim is the only growth hormone approved by the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of AIDS wasting or cachexia.
Gary Stein
> MARK SHERMAN, "AIDS Drug Maker to Pay $704M in Settlement", ABC News, > October 17, 2005, [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > assistant attorney general in charge of the Justice Department's Civil > Division. ritameetr - 18 Oct 2005 14:09 GMT Just one more unscrupulous drug manufacturer in the sea of many corrupt unethical ones pushing their wares to doctors, bribing them with kickbacks, trips, and one could only imagine what else to sell their toxic drugs. Just think how many deaths could have been prevented if these legalized drug pushers were stopped in their tracks. The names of these doctors should be made public, their a.ses should be hauled off to jail where perhaps they can get a good backside reeming and end up taking the aids drugs they are pushing for their large fat profits.
PeterB - 18 Oct 2005 20:55 GMT > Just one more unscrupulous drug manufacturer in the sea of many corrupt > unethical ones pushing their wares to doctors, bribing them with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > off to jail where perhaps they can get a good backside reeming and end > up taking the aids drugs they are pushing for their large fat profits. The pharma bloggers will accuse you of threatening to derail modern medicine, throwing us back into the dark ages. They pretend we aren't already there.
Well said.
PeterB
David Wright - 20 Oct 2005 05:09 GMT >Just one more unscrupulous drug manufacturer in the sea of many corrupt >unethical ones pushing their wares to doctors, bribing them with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >off to jail where perhaps they can get a good backside reeming and end >up taking the aids drugs they are pushing for their large fat profits. I'm glad you didn't actually bother to read the article, which didn't say the drug didn't work, and also didn't say that it had caused any fatalities.
(I'd be just fine with prosecuting the doctors who took the kickbacks, however.)
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
SJ Doc - 20 Oct 2005 10:32 GMT >(I'd be just fine with prosecuting the doctors who took the kickbacks, >however.) That raises an interesting issue. Let's say that a manufacturer of vinyl siding offers a contractor membership at a fancy country club if he will successfully recommend the purchase of that manufacturer's products to a certain number of clients whose homes and businesses the contractor is remodeling. There's no question that the perquisite is monetarily valuable (membership in a country club is not only expensive as hell, but it offers the contractor opportunities to expand his own business contacts and thereby realize monetary profits far greater than any direct kickback amount might entail).
But is it either criminal or unethical for the manufacturer to offer this incentive, or for the contractor to accept it?
Let's say I'm treating a patient with chronic HIV-1 infection, and he's developed wasting related either to the infection itself or to his antiretroviral (ARV) drug regimen. What are my therapeutic choices with regard to the preservation of the patient's lean body mass? After nonpharmacological management options have been undertaken and proven unsatisfactory, I have recourse to appetite stimulants - which increase calorie load, but do nothing to preserve or increase lean muscle mass - androgenic hormones (such as ox- androlone), and somatropin produced via recombinant DNA tech- nology (which is the product of the manufacturer currently under discussion). Other agents are under development and look quite promising, but this is pretty much what is available to the treating physician.
Given that there are some pretty nasty potential adverse effects associated with the androgenic hormones, I can write a very convincing argument in the patient's chart to support a decision to go with a three-month trial of somatropin therapy, can't I? The argument gets even stronger if I've already trialed that patient on oxandrolone tablets or nandrolone injections and shown either failure of response or adverse side effects. If I've got a reasonably busy infectious disease practice, and I'm seeing a lot of patients with HIV-related wasting, I could rather easily achieve the "target" number of patients treated with Serostim and "win" that trip to the medical conference in Cannes (ghod forbid I should ever desire to spend time in the presence of Frenchmen).
So let's say that I'm one of those doctors you're so hot to prosecute for having taken "kickbacks" in this way. Just how the hell do you justify my indictment, prosecution, or conviction, you stupid, self- righteous sonofabitch?
-------------------- Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction, which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen war.
-- Carl von Clausewitz, *Vom Krieg* (1832)
David Wright - 21 Oct 2005 04:16 GMT >>(I'd be just fine with prosecuting the doctors who took the kickbacks, >>however.) [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >justify my indictment, prosecution, or conviction, you stupid, self- >righteous sonofabitch? My goodness, SJDoc, you sure do know how to make friends wherever you go, don't you? First it was insulting surgeons, now this.
If I recall the original article correctly, it said that 85% of the prescriptions written for the drug (Serostim) in question were unnecessary. Would those prescriptions have been written without the kickbacks? Do you insist on kickbacks for every prescription YOU write? A course of treatment on this stuff is something like $21,000. Multiply that by a lot of prescriptions and it's big money, and it's fraud, including insurance fraud.
I guess I had some crazy notion that you were doing your job if you wrote the prescription the patient needed, without being paid under the table to do it. If you want to go install aluminum siding instead, be my guest. Maybe the manufacturer will provide you with kickbacks that are even legal.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
SJ Doc - 21 Oct 2005 19:16 GMT >My goodness, SJDoc, you sure do know how to make friends >wherever you go, don't you? First it was insulting surgeons, now this. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >instead, be my guest. Maybe the manufacturer will provide you with >kickbacks that are even legal. Insulting surgeons is an inescapable part of dealing with them. The silly bastards make Zaphod Beeblebrox look like the soul and saint of self-effacement, and take offense so readily that there's no way to avoid pissing them off. One of the many nice things about being a primary care grunt is that - IRL - *they* have to behave cordially to *me* no matter how deep is the contempt in which they hold any colleague who doesn't approach every patient with a Number 10 blade and a set of retractors. I'm part of their referral base, and I can just as easily call upon one or another of their competitors if given sufficient cause.
The issue of "necessity" with regard to the use of somatropin in the management of HIV-related wasting is far more complex than the writers of the original article either address or *wish* to address. And if you are willing to take the naked assertion of prosecuting U.S. Attorney Michael Sullivan (whom the writer of the article described as estimating "...that 85 percent of Serostim prescriptions were unnecessary") as accepted and in- disputable fact, then you're about as complete an idiot as it's possible to get.
As for my own relationship with the various pharmaceuticals manufacturers, bear in mind that I'm a primary care grunt. The members of PhRMA don't bother much with us. They want to influence specialist "key opinion leaders" and "high writers" in the various therapeutic categories, and the closest I've been to these guys has been participation in open-label Phase IV proof of efficacy studies in which the limit of their "kickback" to my practice was the provision of study medication that I conveyed gratis to my patients (all of whom were without pharmaceuticals benefits, and were having trouble paying for their prescriptions to begin with) who had consented to be enrolled in the studies.
In fact, the access to approved medications for my patients was the principle reason for my participation in the studies. As I recall, I was already diverting samples of the same meds to the maintenance of their treatment anyway. I've always been entirely shameless about making sure that my patients get what they need.
Did you know that generic drugs are even cheaper if the physician just buys big, honking stock bottles and dispenses them at cost? The pharmacies *love* generic drug prescriptions because they make a helluva lot more profit (higher mark-up) on dispensing generics than they do when filling scrips for branded products.
The thing that bothers me professionally about Serono's conduct in their relations with these infectious diseases (ID) specialists is their provision of computer software to encourage these practi- tioners to diagnose HIV-related wasting on bases that may not have met objective standards of clinical validity. That's what the writer of the original article meant when he spoke of "a new test for AIDS wasting." I'd like to look into that little matter a bit myself.
Whether or not the computer algorithm was complaint with FDA labeling is of no importance whatsoever from a quality-of-care perspective, however. The FDA's restrictions superbly evoke Jefferson's observation that "If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread." The FDA is a federal bureaucracy, not a gathering of brilliant minds or even particularly conscientious public servants. If your doctor relies upon the FDA for every decision he/she makes, he/she is *not* conducting your care according to accepted "best clinical practices," and you should seek other physicians' opinions before entrusting yourself uncritically to that doctor's care.
As for Mr. Sullivan's (again, nakedly unsupported) assertion that "The test diagnosed AIDS wasting even in the absence of weight loss," be advised that the earliest phases of HIV-related wasting do *not* necessarily involve the loss of weight but rather certain of changes in body composition. One of the common problems with appetite stimulants used in the address of HIV- related wasting is that frequently one sees preservation of weight through the addition of adipose tissue while functional (lean muscle) body mass - a reflection also of the patient's capacity for maintaining immunologic reconstitution - continues to waste.
See http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?page=kb-04-01-08 for an explanation of the condition designed for the educated and interested layman.
The 10% weight loss mentioned as one of the diagnostic criteria is generally seen only rather late in the development of the condition, at a point where the patient's relative risk of morbidity and mortality has already risen to levels that most experienced physicians would consider worrisome. It is generally much better to diagnose and effectively treat HIV-related wasting *before* the patient begins to demonstrate absolute weight loss, and thereby work to forestall the sorts of debilitation and opportunistic secon- dary infections commonly associated with this consequence of chronic HIV-1 infection.
Of course, neither Mr. Sullivan nor the writer of this article gives a greasy goddam about that.
Do you?
------------------ Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
-- George Orwell (Eric Blair) "Politics and the English Language" (1946)
Peter Panda - 22 Oct 2005 11:01 GMT >>If I recall the original article correctly, it said that 85% of the >>prescriptions written for the drug (Serostim) in question were [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>$21,000. Multiply that by a lot of prescriptions and it's big money, >>and it's fraud, including insurance fraud. One thing to consider is that AIDS therapy depends on testing every conceivable drug available to see if it enhances the overall treatment. Why should testosterone be a therapy, but it was tested and had beneficial results and some may not have beneficial results and then deemed "unnecessary" because they didn't enhance treatment. The AIDS patients themselves are the guinea pigs, the existing drug may work or may not work, but an experimental treatment can't be considered "unnecessary." And yes, I hate greedy pharmaceutical companies and they are getting rich of it, but that's the way it is until Hugo Chávez and Robert Mugabe form an alliance to invent free AIDS drugs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- "You must stop imagining that posterity will vindicate you, Winston. Posterity will never hear of you. You will be lifted clean out from the stream of history. We shall turn you into gas and pour you out into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you: not a name in a register, not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past as well as in the future. You will never have existed." -- 1984 --------------------------------------------------------------------
SJ Doc - 22 Oct 2005 18:32 GMT >>>If I recall the original article correctly, it said that 85% of the >>>prescriptions written for the drug (Serostim) in question were [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>$21,000. Multiply that by a lot of prescriptions and it's big money, >>>and it's fraud, including insurance fraud.
>One thing to consider is that AIDS therapy depends on testing every >conceivable drug available to see if it enhances the overall treatment. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >they are getting rich of it, but that's the way it is until Hugo Chávez >and Robert Mugabe form an alliance to invent free AIDS drugs. It's not quite that simple.
In antiretroviral (ARV) therapy, it is not (nor was it ever) a matter of using patients as "guinea pigs." We knew that there are certain physiologic processes critically important to HIV-1's ability to re- produce, and that if we could find chemicals that screwed up those processes, we could reduce the bug's ability to do damage. Right now, we go after three key enzymes in the HIV-1 bug's "attack" on human cells. The testing on humans involves issues like dosing (what's too much? what's not enough?), synergies (if we use X and Y and Z together, will they work better than just X, or just Y, or just Z alone?), adverse secondary effects (especially those occurring chiefly in certain sectors of the population), and so forth.
We try to *harvest* information on each and every patient with chronic HIV infection (even the ones who don't manifest AIDS) in order to continue building our fund of knowledge on the subject. It enables the treating physician today to more readily distinguish problems and more effectively handle disease management. But to say that every patient with chronic HIV infection is a "guinea pig" is too damned simplistic.
As for "Hugo Chávez and Robert Mugabe," what gives you cause to fantasize that murdering, thieving, parasitical career politicians of their ilk can "invent" anything but more ingenious ways to ruin their polities' economies, raise ever-greater piles of corpses, and destroy the clinical utility of the ARV drugs so painstakingly developed by private sector R&D companies in countries outside these bastards' twitching, bloody grasp?
------------------ People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
-- Andrew & Larry Wachowski (screenplay) *V for Vendetta* (2006)
David Wright - 27 Oct 2005 04:53 GMT >>My goodness, SJDoc, you sure do know how to make friends >>wherever you go, don't you? First it was insulting surgeons, now this. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >disputable fact, then you're about as complete an idiot as it's >possible to get. etc etc etc -- with not ONE WORD explaining why it was OK for those doctors to accept kickbacks from the drug company. Why are you so touchy about this? Guilty conscience?
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
>As for my own relationship with the various pharmaceuticals >manufacturers, bear in mind that I'm a primary care grunt. The [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > -- George Orwell (Eric Blair) > "Politics and the English Language" (1946) SJ Doc - 27 Oct 2005 08:57 GMT >etc etc etc -- with not ONE WORD explaining why it was OK >for those doctors to accept kickbacks from the drug company. >Why are you so touchy about this? Guilty conscience? Nope. As I'd said, I'm a primary care grunt. I'm not the kind of doctor that the pharma manufacturers look to "influence" in the sorts of interesting ways covered by the OIG guidance (see http://oig.hhs.gov/authorities/docs/03/050503FRCPGPharmac.pdf) uttered a couple of years ago. You didn't bother to read that before shoving your comment into my post, but then, of course, you're an idiot.
What you're reading into the cut-and-pasted article and the suc- cessor post of "ritameetr" are both the poster's and the original writers' own prejudices as well as the unsupported assertions of prosecuting U.S. Attorney Sullivan, who would happily accuse Serono of having engineered the anthrax attacks of Sep- tember 2001 if he thought he could get away with it. That's what prosecuting attorneys do for a living. They fling as much sh.t as they can lift and try like hell to make something stick.
What's the old saw? "A conservative is a liberal who's just been mugged, while a liberal is a conservative who's just been indicted."
I'd like you to look into the *Federal Register* reference I've just given you (above) for the final guidance uttered by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services - and bear in mind that the elaboration of guidances like these have been slurping out of the DHHS since 1972 without providing more than the most nebulous and befuddling instructions (altogether typical of federal regulations in general) affecting the health care sector of the U.S. and world economies in general and the pharmaceuticals industry in particular.
Find something in there that calls into question - even retro- spectively - the actions undertaken by Serono in offering those infectious diseases (ID) specialists a trip to Cannes as par- ticipants in a medical conference on the basis of their having established their expertise in the use of somatropin in a minimum number of HIV-related wasting cases. Now find something there - or in any other part of Title 21 Code of Federal Regula- tions (21 CFR) - that speaks to any sort of criminality on the part of any physician who takes up Serono's offer to transport them to Cannes for that conference, to pay for their board and lodging, and to otherwise facilitate their discussions with col- leagues both foreign and American in addressing some pretty goddam knotty problems in the management of patients with chronic HIV-1 infection.
Put up, please, or do kindly STFU.
I'll admit that I'm envious of the specialists who get invited to these sorts of conferences. It's not because they get to travel to the French Riviera, as I have no more desire to deal with francophone tourist trap operators than I have with regard to visiting Disney World or Las Vegas. They're destinations for mundanes, and the mundanes can have 'em. What I would have *very* much enjoyed would have been the opportunity to speak directly and at length with some of the world leaders in AIDS treatment and research - guys like Soriano and Moyle and the rest of the IAS crowd - for a week-end.
Primary care grunts like me don't get much opportunity for that sort of interaction, no matter how long we've been treating cases of GRID ("gay-related immune deficiency," as we used to call it up until 1982). We're not the glamour boys of the profession, and we're okay with that. Most of us hold with Heinlein's dictum to the effect that "speciali- zation is for insects."
We also accept the fact that to most of the marketing clowns in the pharma industry, we're not worth much in the way of their promotional budgets. The perqs go to the guys who write for tons of high-dollar medications, not to those of us whose scrip pads get whittled down renewing prescriptions for hydrochlorothiazide, metoprolol, and lovastatin.
But there's not enough *Schadenfreude* in the average GP's makeup give us cause to exult when some idiot writes that he would "... be just fine with prosecuting the doctors who took the kickbacks" in a situation such as that under current discussion. We all know - on the basis of both professional training (medical jurisprudence) and experience - that it is entirely too damned easy for a physician to become entangled in the chaos of regulation dumped all over the profession by politicians and bureaucrats at every level of civil government in these United States, and that prosecutors like Mr. Sullivan would just as eagerly come after *us* as they delight in clobbering high-profile targets like the pharma companies.
In the Serono situation (insofar as I've been able to determine) the physicians "induced" by Serono to incorporate somatropin in the management of patients with HIV-related wasting were not given supplies of Serostim by the manufacturer to be ad- ministered and then billed to HCFA (now CMS) as if the doctors had sustained the cost of purchasing the drug (which is what TAP had done in their "promotion" of Lupron), so the docs didn't defraud Medicare or Medicaid (or any other third party payer) in any way whatsoever.
So to what extent have any of the American doctors partici- pating in that conference put a foot wrong with regard to U.S. regulations governing their conduct? In what way have they even skated close to violating the AMA Code of Medical Ethics (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2498.html)?
Bear in mind that I don't have to prove (or even argue) that "...it was OK for those doctors to accept kickbacks from the drug company" in the case under discussion. The burden is on *your* shoulders (and those of government thugs like Mr. Sullivan) to establish a claim either that "kickbacks" were given or received *or* that the acceptance of the perquisites attending upon the medical conference held in Cannes constituted a violation of either administrative or criminal law on the part of the physicians who accepted Serono's offer.
So just how the hell *do* you justify the indictment, prosecution, or conviction of any of these physicians, you stupid, self-righteous sonofabitch?
--------------- Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers. All that, you see, is unessential. Our Socialism goes far deeper... What are ownership and income to that? Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings.
-- Hermann Rauschning (Berlin, 1940)
David Wright - 31 Oct 2005 04:49 GMT >>etc etc etc -- with not ONE WORD explaining why it was OK >>for those doctors to accept kickbacks from the drug company. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >before shoving your comment into my post, but then, of course, >you're an idiot. No, I saw it. But you still protest too much. From the vehemence of your reaction, one would think I'd suggested YOU should be prosecuted.
Not to mention your gratuitous use of insult. I suppose you're just a frustrated wimp in real life and this lashing out is your method of trying to make yourself feel better. Does it work? As you post from your nice safe anonymity, I mean.
>What you're reading into the cut-and-pasted article and the suc- >cessor post of "ritameetr" are both the poster's and the original >writers' own prejudices as well as the unsupported assertions >of prosecuting U.S. Attorney Sullivan, who would happily >accuse Serono of having engineered the anthrax attacks of Sep- >tember 2001 if he thought he could get away with it. And Serono is as innocent as a little wooly lamb. That's why they agreed to pay $704 million. There was no real question that the kickbacks they were offering were illegal, and nothing you've said has contradicted that. And they were using an unapproved test. Maybe the test was great, but it wasn't approved and they knew it.
>What's the old saw? "A conservative is a liberal who's just >been mugged, while a liberal is a conservative who's just been >indicted." Usually "arrested" not "indicted."
>I'd like you to look into the *Federal Register* reference I've >just given you (above) for the final guidance uttered by the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >established their expertise in the use of somatropin in a minimum >number of HIV-related wasting cases. Established their expertise? The criterion for going was writing 30 prescriptions.
>I'll admit that I'm envious of the specialists who get invited to >these sorts of conferences. It's not because they get to travel >to the French Riviera, as I have no more desire to deal with >francophone tourist trap operators than I have with regard to >visiting Disney World or Las Vegas. They're destinations for >mundanes, and the mundanes can have 'em. You're going to need an orthopod if you keep patting yourself on the back like this.
>Primary care grunts like me don't get much opportunity for that sort >of interaction, no matter how long we've been treating cases of GRID >("gay-related immune deficiency," as we used to call it up until >1982). We're not the glamour boys of the profession, and we're okay >with that. Most of us hold with Heinlein's dictum to the effect that >"specialization is for insects." Must you quote that insufferable windbag Lazarus Long?
>In the Serono situation (insofar as I've been able to determine) >the physicians "induced" by Serono to incorporate somatropin [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the docs didn't defraud Medicare or Medicaid (or any other >third party payer) in any way whatsoever. The patients couldn't get Serostim without a prescription, could they? The exact mechanism of how the drug got into their hands is a red herring.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
cathyb - 31 Oct 2005 07:11 GMT > >>etc etc etc -- with not ONE WORD explaining why it was OK > >>for those doctors to accept kickbacks from the drug company. [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > Must you quote that insufferable windbag Lazarus Long? Yep, the most conceited persona ever created, except perhaps for that created by the "mind" of John Gohde.
Cathy
> >In the Serono situation (insofar as I've been able to determine) > >the physicians "induced" by Serono to incorporate somatropin [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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