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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005

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Studies Show Flu Vaccine Is Not Effective for Most

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PeterB - 23 Sep 2005 13:45 GMT
Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in Elderly
By Amanda Gardner
HealthDay Reporter

WEDNESDAY, Sept. 21 (HealthDay News) -- The flu vaccine, a cornerstone
of public health policy, is only mildly effective in the population for
which it is supposedly most critical: the elderly.

According to a study appearing in the Sept. 22 online issue of The
Lancet, vaccines against influenza are only "modestly effective" in
people in long-term care facilities and even less effective for elderly
people still living in the community.

That research is twinned with another flu study, which found more bad
news: that resistance to drugs used to treat influenza has risen 12
percent in the past decade.

This finding, the authors stated, raises questions about the
government's policy of stockpiling such drugs.

Strong opinions to the vaccine study came from all sides of the issue.

"The vaccine doesn't work very well at all," said study author Dr. Tom
Jefferson, an epidemiologist with the Cochrane Vaccines Field in Rome.
"Vaccines are being used as an ideological weapon. What you see every
year as the flu is caused by 200 or 300 different agents with a vaccine
against two of them. That is simply nonsense."

Dr. Marc Siegel, author of False Alarm: The Truth About the Epidemic of
Fear, agreed. "We have set up a situation where a fear is created, and
then we try to create the treatment for this fear. The public gets the
idea that the flu is going to kill them and the vaccine will save them.
Neither is true," he said. "The flu vaccine has use in cutting down on
deaths from complications in the chronically ill and people at great
risk, but it's not a panacea."

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention responded strongly
on the other side.

"We certainly do hope that people will not be sidetracked from this
important point. There are studies that show that the vaccine is
effective in preventing serious complications of the flu," said CDC
spokesman Tom Skinner. "This is not going to change the fact that we
each and every year recommend people in high-risk categories to get the
vaccine."

Health officials worldwide, including those at the CDC, push to get as
many elderly individuals as possible vaccinated against the flu each
year. According to the study, in 2000, 40 of 51 developed or rapidly
developing countries recommended vaccines for all individuals aged 60
and older. In 2003, 290 million doses of vaccine were distributed
worldwide.

Earlier this month, U.S. health officials starting urging all eligible
persons to get a flu shot, with priority given to the elderly and
certain other groups. And to avoid last year's flu vaccine shortage,
U.S. health officials have planned for a total of 97 million doses of
vaccine.

The current study provided no new data but, rather, looked at 64
existing studies which looked at the effectiveness of the flu vaccine
over 96 flu seasons.

For elderly people living in the community, inactivated influenza
vaccines prevented up to 30 percent of hospitalizations for pneumonia
but were not effective against the flu, flu-like illnesses or
pneumonia. "The vaccines didn't seem to prevent influenza," Jefferson
said.

For elderly people living in long-term care facilities, the picture was
slightly brighter, with vaccines preventing up to 42 percent of deaths
caused by influenza and pneumonia only.

"We have to concentrate our resources elsewhere or invest in better
vaccines," Jefferson stated.

The authors of the second study screened 7,000 influenza A isolates for
gene mutations known to confer drug resistance to the antivirals
amantadine and rimantadine.

Overall drug resistance increased from 0.4 percent in 1994-95 to 12.3
percent in 2003-04. Also, 61 percent of resistant viruses isolated
since 2003 were from people in Asia. Some Asian countries had drug
resistance frequencies exceeding 70 percent, possibly a reflection of
different prescribing practices.

Strikingly, more than 84 percent of all resistant viruses during the
10-year period under question were identified since the 2003 flu
season.

This highlights the importance of continuing to expand surveillance of
the emergence of resistance to these drugs, said Rick Bright, lead
author of the study and a research scientist with the CDC.

"This is a warning that overuse of antiviral drugs leads to
resistance," Siegel said. "The drugs should be specifically used for
influenza that is a problem in terms of duration and possible risk of
death, not for everybody."

The study authors voiced concern that rising rates of resistance will
render amantadine and rimantadine ineffective for treatment or
prevention in the event of an influenza pandemic. That, in turn, would
render government stockpiles useless.

"I question stockpiling these drugs. You're going to have to discard or
overuse them. It's sending a message to the public that these are
lifesaving drugs," Siegel said. "Antivirals should be considered in
high-risk cases," but in other cases they may only be of limited
effectiveness, he said.

"We have to differentiate between potential risk and something that
clearly is in the offing. Fear is a warning system that is supposed to
protect us against imminent danger such as a gorilla hanging over us,"
he added. "I want to know why more effort isn't put on getting our
vaccination method up-to-date instead of stockpiling millions of doses
of vaccine and sending a fear message. We need to see reality."

© 2005 Forbes.com Inc.™
Rich - 23 Sep 2005 15:04 GMT
Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY

According to a study appearing in the Sept. 22 online issue of The
Lancet, vaccines against influenza are only "modestly effective" in
people in long-term care facilities and even less effective for elderly
people still living in the community.

"We certainly do hope that people will not be sidetracked from this
important point. There are studies that show that the vaccine is
effective in preventing serious complications of the flu," said CDC
spokesman Tom Skinner. "This is not going to change the fact that we
each and every year recommend people in high-risk categories to get the
vaccine."

Peter, your subject line is false and misleading. In the report quoted, your
"not effective" becomes "modestly effective", and "most" is actually the
"elderly". This is typical of anti-vac liar semantic twisting.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

cathyb - 23 Sep 2005 15:27 GMT
> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> --Rich

And while it's disappointing that the vaccines aren't more effective,

"For elderly people living in the community, inactivated influenza
vaccines prevented up to 30 percent of hospitalizations for pneumonia
but were not effective against the flu, flu-like illnesses or
pneumonia. "The vaccines didn't seem to prevent influenza," Jefferson
said.

For elderly people living in long-term care facilities, the picture was

slightly brighter, with vaccines preventing up to 42 percent of deaths
caused by influenza and pneumonia only."

is hardly to be sniffed at:)

And I would question the judgement that up to 42% of deaths being
prevented is only a "slightly brighter" picture.

According to an article in The Australian today, the CDC reckon the
problem with resistance in Asia is down to farmers in various countries
giving their chickens cheap anti-virals; however, I couldn't find that
on the CDC website, so who knows.

Cathy

> Recommended websites:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>  http://www.skeptic.com/
>  http://www.csicop.org/
PeterB - 23 Sep 2005 18:13 GMT
> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> "not effective" becomes "modestly effective", and "most" is actually the
> "elderly". This is typical of anti-vac liar semantic twisting.

First, it's misleading to quote only those segments of an article you
find agreeable to you, so I urge readers to read the article in its
entirely (above your response.)  This article clearly highlights the
fact that authorities are in disagreement about the benefits of flu
vaccine.  As for the reference to "modestly effective," that was true
only for those in long-term care facilities, not everyone else.  Where
do you think the majority of people are?  Do you know the meaning of
the word "Most?"  If you disagree with my view that something less than
"modestly effective" is therefore "not effective," take it up with
study authors, they are drawing the same conclusion, which is why CDC
(where many pharma people are working these day$) got hot under the
collar.  

PeterB
Rich - 23 Sep 2005 18:38 GMT
>> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> PeterB

Actually, this is from the abstract of the study:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673605673394/abstract?i
seop=true

(You have to be registered at Lancet to view this abstract, but registration
is free.)

"Interpretation
In long-term care facilities, where vaccination is most effective against
complications, the aims of the vaccination campaign are fulfilled, at least
in part. However, according to reliable evidence the usefulness of vaccines
in the community is modest."

So now, in long-term care the "aims . . . are fulfilled," and in the
community the "usefulness . . . is modest".

"Modest" is certainly better than "not effective" and considering the low
cost and excellent safety record of influenza vaccines, vaccination of the
elderly and other high-risk persons seems well worthwhile.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

PeterB - 23 Sep 2005 19:34 GMT
> >> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> cost and excellent safety record of influenza vaccines, vaccination of the
> elderly and other high-risk persons seems well worthwhile.

You're confusing two areas of vaccine efficacy.  The quote you lifted
from the abstract refers to "complications of influenza," not influenza
itself.  The modest benefit, in fact, is only for those who contract
influenza *despite* vaccination in long-term care facilities, which
amounts to a VERY small minority.  And in those facilities, additional
medical assistance is certainly available, which explains why the
vaccine-associated benefit in those individuals is not observed in
their counterparts outside managed care.  My subject header is
therefore quite accurate in terms of influenza protection, and explains
the dispute going on among health authorities.  In MOST people, as it
turns out, flu vaccine is simply not effective.  Other studies have
clearly shown this, however the drug makers (and you on their behalf)
are trying hard to deny it.  As for vaccine being cheap insurance, that
depends on your view of insurance.  The injection of biological
material into a human being, by design, is an assault on the immune
system; it's also inferior to fortification of immune response made
possible by use of nutritional supplements.

PeterB
Rich - 23 Sep 2005 19:52 GMT
>> >> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> system; it's also inferior to fortification of immune response made
> possible by use of nutritional supplements.

So you're admitting that those who contract influenza despite vaccination in
long-term care facilities amount to "a VERY small minority," and in the same
paragraph claim that vaccination is ineffective. That looks like a major
contradiction to me. Also, when you say MOST people you must include the
non-elderly vaccinated population in which vaccination is much more
effective. Just where are all those studies that "clearly show" otherwise?
As for the assault to the immune system, the immune system responds
appropriately to such assaults (which it encounters daily even without
vaccination), and will not work properly without such "assaults" regardless
of what supplements are employed. No supplement will "fortify" an immune
response more than the presence of the pathogen specific lymphocytes and
antibodies produced by the body after vaccination.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

PeterB - 23 Sep 2005 20:44 GMT
> >> >> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
> >> >>
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> paragraph claim that vaccination is ineffective. That looks like a major
> contradiction to me.

By truncating my statement you manage to support your bias.  Here is
what I said:

"The modest benefit, in fact, is only for those who contract influenza
*despite* vaccination in long-term care facilities, which amounts to a
VERY small minority..."

The very small minority refers to the number of hospice-care vaccinated
persons who experience a medical benefit despite contracting influenza.
Get it?

> Also, when you say MOST people you must include the
> non-elderly vaccinated population in which vaccination is much more
> effective.

We've seen little evidence that flu vaccine is especially effective in
ANY age group.

> Just where are all those studies that "clearly show" otherwise?

I posted a well-publicized study here a few weeks ago, you might have
been away at the time.  I couldn't find it and don't have the reference
handy, but I may have it on one of the other computers.  I'll check
later and repost.

> As for the assault to the immune system, the immune system responds
> appropriately to such assaults (which it encounters daily even without
> vaccination), and will not work properly without such "assaults" regardless
> of what supplements are employed. No supplement will "fortify" an immune
> response more than the presence of the pathogen specific lymphocytes and
> antibodies produced by the body after vaccination.

With your presumed medical background, you should know that immunology
is a complex system involving more than lymphocytes and antibody
production; that poor nutritional status is a huge factor in
susceptability to disease, and that effective immune response is not
dependent on vaccine.  You might want to visit http://www.who.int/en/
to learn more about the link between susceptability to viral illness
and nutritional status.  That's very important for the elderly, but
everyone else too.

PeterB
LadyLollipop - 23 Sep 2005 22:26 GMT
>>> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
> cost and excellent safety record of influenza vaccines, vaccination of the
> elderly and other high-risk persons seems well worthwhile.

Ill-informed

I choose NOT .

> --Rich
Rich - 23 Sep 2005 22:27 GMT
>>>> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Ill-informed

You may choose as you like, but my choice is demonstably better informed
than yours.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Mark Probert - 24 Sep 2005 02:59 GMT
>>>>Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> I choose NOT .

Go right ahead.
LadyLollipop - 23 Sep 2005 22:24 GMT
> Flu Vaccine Only Mildly Effective in ELDERLY
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> your "not effective" becomes "modestly effective", and "most" is actually
> the "elderly". This is typical of anti-vac liar semantic twisting.

LOL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Says the one who has been twisting and twisting and twisting.

And saying, fibo is a crock, + repeating the proven lying websites.

> --Rich
 
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