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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005

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Lobbying

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LadyLollipop - 23 Sep 2005 05:36 GMT
Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:

Jan Drew Admits She Supports Censorship and restrictions on Free Speech.

LadyLollipop wrote:
> Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:KfkYe.7102$i%2.3548@fe10.lga...
>
>>PeterB wrote:
>>
>>>Mark Probert wrote:
>>>
>>>>PeterB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Mark Probert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>PeterB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tim Campbell wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nicely done Peter! You have indeed observed patterns that are
>>>>>>>>self-evident. Anyone can go back and see for themselves what you
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>commented on.
>>>>>>>>Which also happens to be true about natural and alternative
>>>>>>>>approaches
>>>>>>>>to health. Whoever wishes may just go out and find out for
>>>>>>>>themselves
>>>>>>>>which approaches to health are valid...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You're right, Tim, which is why the drug monopolies are trying hard
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>remove our health options any way they can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How are they doing it, Peter? Can you list specific actions of the
>>>>>>"drug
>>>>>>monopolies" where they are doing what you claim?
>>>>>
>>>>>Primarily through political lobbying, legislative bills approaching the
>>>>>senate,
>>>>
>>>>As is their right to do, or, do you have a problem with this?
>
> YES
>
> Take a good look a your buddy, paid by the word Andrew Langer Then get
> real
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/

Mr. Langer is not mentioned in that article and I find is telling that
you would even mention his name in mha where he has not appeared (via
crosspost) since June 8, 2005.

I should email him and let him know you are trashing him behind his back.

Pathetic, as usual, Mark, I have posted, the very same thing to him

As for the substance of your comment...

You now clearly support restrictions on Free Speech and censorship.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/

CNN) -- There's no denying both political parties in Congress are now owned
lock, stock and barrel by corporate interests. Our nation's elected
officials in Washington have formed a partnership with the corporate
supremacists and special interest groups in an effort to drive profits to
the bottom line of U.S. multinationals at the expense of hard-working
Americans.
Congress over the past few months has all-too-willingly approved
corporate-friendly -- and often corporate-written -- transportation and
energy bills, as well as so-called bankruptcy reform that further rents the
middle class' social safety net. And not surprisingly, there's a serious
correlation between the dramatic increase in money spent by special interest
groups on lobbying and corporate America's taking over the deed to Capitol
Hill.

Let's be clear about this: Calling these greedy people "lobbyists" simply
because they convene in the hallowed lobbies of Washington is akin to
calling parasites "bodyists" or viruses "blood-streamers." What they're
really doing is selling out American workers and hastening the decline in
our nation's standard of living and quality of life.

Corporations, entire industries and other special interest groups spent a
record $2.14 billion on lobbying members of Congress and 220 other federal
agencies last year, according to Political MoneyLine, a nonpartisan research
service that tracks campaign contributions. That figure represents a 7
percent increase over 2003 and an astonishing 34 percent jump from the
amount of money spent on lobbying in 2001.

Interestingly, while many major news stories tend to focus on campaign
finance reform, twice as much money has been spent on lobbying Congress than
on federal elections since 1998. All told, corporations and special
interests have spent more than $12 billion on lobbying efforts over that
time, according to the Center for Public Integrity.

Congressmen Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Marty Meehan of Massachusetts have
introduced legislation that would, among other things, strengthen lobbying
disclosure requirements, slow the "revolving door" between public service
and lobbying and make it easier for Americans to learn about who is lobbying
members of Congress. Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin has introduced a
similar version in the Senate.

But Congressman Emanuel says he thinks the leaders of Congress aren't
interested in changing the way it operates, or even the way lobbyists
operate.

"When the Speaker's gavel comes down, it's intended to open the People's
House, and lately it's looking like the Auction House," says Rep. Emanuel,
"Whether it's an energy bill that gives more $8 billion to the oil and gas
interests while oil's at $64 a barrel, whether it's a corporate tax bill
solving a $5 billion problem with a $150 billion solution, whether it's a
pharmaceutical, prescription drug bill where the industry gave $132 million
and walked away with $135 billion in additional profits."

The corporate lobby has become more effective recently because it's hiring
more experienced players, in effect creating a "revolving door" between
Capitol Hill and K Street. In fact, 43 percent of the eligible congressional
members who departed government during that time have become lobbyists,
while half of all eligible departing senators have become lobbyists. Nearly
250 former members of Congress and federal agency chiefs have become
lobbyists since 1998, while more than 2,200 former federal employees have
registered as federal lobbyists.

The striking rise in money spent on lobbying also increases the chances for
abuse. Lobbyists are required to report who pays them and how much they're
paid, but nearly 85 percent of the top 250 lobbying firms have failed to
file one or more required forms, according to the Center for Public
Integrity. The biggest abuses, however, stem from lobbyists' paying for
politicians' dinners, trips, golf outings and more. Members of Congress over
the past five years have received more than $18 million to travel the world
at the expense of private organizations, PoliticalMoneyLine reports. Those
expenses include 6,242 trips for 628 lawmakers from both political parties.

Alex Knott, LobbyWatch project manager at the Center for Public Integrity,
calls this process buying a consensus. "I think where a lot of people find
problems is that a special interest ... has a greater ability to influence
members of Congress and agencies than average American citizens do," he
says. "They will send them on these huge golf trips and these expensive
dinners, and they will have their ear right before they go and vote because
they will catch them in the hallways just before a major vote happens. And
this makes it almost impossible for the individual's voice to penetrate the
loud buzz that comes from lobbyists."

Americans also want to see changes in Washington: More than four in five
Americans believe it would be a "very serious" or "moderately serious"
ethical breach if their member of Congress took a trip paid for by a
lobbyist, according to a recent USAToday/CNN/Gallup poll.

Lobbyists aren't the only ones to blame for the current business-first
environment in Washington, but they're enabling those corporate interests to
cozy up to our nation's elected officials. We must take action to return
Congress to the business of the American citizenry, not the business of the
corporate supremacists.

<snip insult>

If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under the
correct subject title, your choice.
Mark Probert - 23 Sep 2005 15:41 GMT
> Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:

There is no deception involved. You stated that you had a problem with
lobbying, etc. Lobbying is free speech, and, further, is an example of
the people's right to petition the government for redress. That right is
also enumerated in the First Amendment.

YOU, claimed that you have a problem with it. IOW, you support
Censorship and restrictions of Free Speech.

We all know that you frequently tell people to shut up, report people to
ISPs and mail providers, and encourage your handler to stalk people,
such as Langer and me, by contacting our spouses in her pathetic attempt
to intimidate us into silence (why else woud she do it????)

> Jan Drew Admits She Supports Censorship and restrictions on Free Speech.

Snip

I asked:

>>>>>As is their right to do, or, do you have a problem with this?

You answered:

>>YES

You added:

>>Take a good look a your buddy, paid by the word Andrew Langer Then get
>>real
>>
>>http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/

I responded:

> Mr. Langer is not mentioned in that article and I find is telling that
> you would even mention his name in mha where he has not appeared (via
> crosspost) since June 8, 2005.
>
> I should email him and let him know you are trashing him behind his back.

You interjected:

> Pathetic, as usual, Mark, I have posted, the very same thing to him

I continued:

> As for the substance of your comment...
>
> You now clearly support restrictions on Free Speech and censorship.

Regardless of their motivations, regardless of who they are, they have
the right to do what they are doing.

You have the right to oppose them. You can readily email your elected
officials? Have you? I do it regularly. I address the issues with them
when I see them.

I attend public meetings as often as possible and address issues when
there.

Everything that I have read from you tells me that my opinion of you,
i.e. that you support censorship and restrictions on Free Speech is
correct. I see no evidence otherwise.

> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/
>
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
> If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under the
> correct subject title, your choice.
LadyLollipop - 23 Sep 2005 22:34 GMT
>> Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:
>
> There is no deception involved.

Whooper LYING, over and over and over.

You stated that you had a problem with
> lobbying, etc.

I did NOT start the problem.

YOU asked a question.

Lobbying is free speech, and, further, is an example of
> the people's right to petition the government for redress. That right is
> also enumerated in the First Amendment.

I dare say we all know what lobbying is.

> YOU, claimed that you have a problem with it.

YES, I did.

Futhermore, I posted that MANY people have a problem with it and WHY.

That is self explanatory. See below.

IOW, you support  Censorship and restrictions of Free Speech.

WRONG.

If I need other words, *I* will post them.

<snip>

> Snip
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> I continued:

<snip>

>> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/
>>
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
>> If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under
>> the correct subject title, your choice.
Mark Probert - 24 Sep 2005 03:15 GMT
>>>Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:
>>
>>There is no deception involved.
>
> Whooper LYING, over and over and over.

Funny, only you say that. It must mean that you are a judgmental Satan
driven witch.

> You stated that you had a problem with
>>lobbying, etc.
>
> I did NOT start the problem.

I did not say that you *started* the problem. Read the word, dingbat.

> YOU asked a question.

Yes, and you answered it. You said you had a problem with lobbying. I
said that if you did, you had a problem with free speech.

>  Lobbying is free speech, and, further, is an example of
>>the people's right to petition the government for redress. That right is
>>also enumerated in the First Amendment.
>
> I dare say we all know what lobbying is.

Yes, it is the exercise of the rights guaranteed under the first
amendment. Do you have a problem with this?

>>YOU, claimed that you have a problem with it.
>
> YES, I did.
>
> Futhermore, I posted that MANY people have a problem with it and WHY.

And, I pointed that that you having a problem with the exercise of
Constitutionally protected rights is demonstrative of you wanting to
stifle free speech and strip people of their rights.

> That is self explanatory. See below.

> IOW, you support  Censorship and restrictions of Free Speech.
>
> WRONG.

You first say that you have a problem with people exercising their right
of free speech and the freedom of petition, and now you say that you do
not support censorship and restrictions on free speech. AFAIAC, merely
having a problem with that is tantamount to wanting to restrict them.

> If I need other words, *I* will post them.

You often needs other words, as some that you post make no sense.

> <snip>

Here is what you snipped which further proves my point:

We all know that you frequently tell people to shut up, report people to
ISPs and mail providers, and encourage your handler to stalk people,
such as Langer and me, by contacting our spouses in her pathetic attempt
to intimidate us into silence (why else woud she do it????)

>>Snip
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> <snip>

Again, you snip what you cannot deal with:

Regardless of their motivations, regardless of who they are, they have
the right to do what they are doing.

You have the right to oppose them. You can readily email your elected
officials? Have you? I do it regularly. I address the issues with them
when I see them.

I attend public meetings as often as possible and address issues when there.

Everything that I have read from you tells me that my opinion of you,
i.e. that you support censorship and restrictions on Free Speech is
correct. I see no evidence otherwise.

>>>http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
>>>If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under
>>>the correct subject title, your choice.
LadyLollipop - 24 Sep 2005 05:00 GMT
My answer was sufficient, NO need to go over it again.

The end.

Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message

news:duUYe.8270$i%2.5211@fe10.lga...

>> Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:

> There is no deception involved.

Whooper LYING, over and over and over.

You stated that you had a problem with

> lobbying, etc.

I did NOT start the problem.

YOU asked a question.

Lobbying is free speech, and, further, is an example of

> the people's right to petition the government for redress. That right is
> also enumerated in the First Amendment.

I dare say we all know what lobbying is.

> YOU, claimed that you have a problem with it.

YES, I did.

Futhermore, I posted that MANY people have a problem with it and WHY.

That is self explanatory. See below.

IOW, you support  Censorship and restrictions of Free Speech.

WRONG.

If I need other words, *I* will post them.

<snip>

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> Snip

> I asked:

>>>>>>As is their right to do, or, do you have a problem with this?

> You answered:

>>>YES

> You added:

>>>Take a good look a your buddy, paid by the word Andrew Langer Then get
>>>real

>>>http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/>
> I responded:

>> Mr. Langer is not mentioned in that article and I find is telling that
>> you would even mention his name in mha where he has not appeared (via
>> crosspost) since June 8, 2005.

>> I should email him and let him know you are trashing him behind his back.

> You interjected:

>> Pathetic, as usual, Mark, I have posted, the very same thing to him

> I continued:

<snip>

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

>> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lobby.america/>> CNN) -- There's no
>> denying both political parties in Congress are now owned lock, stock and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> special interest groups on lobbying and corporate America's taking over
>> the deed to Capitol Hill.

>> Let's be clear about this: Calling these greedy people "lobbyists" simply
>> because they convene in the hallowed lobbies of Washington is akin to
>> calling parasites "bodyists" or viruses "blood-streamers." What they're
>> really doing is selling out American workers and hastening the decline in
>> our nation's standard of living and quality of life.

>> Corporations, entire industries and other special interest groups spent a
>> record $2.14 billion on lobbying members of Congress and 220 other
>> federal agencies last year, according to Political MoneyLine, a
>> nonpartisan research service that tracks campaign contributions. That
>> figure represents a 7 percent increase over 2003 and an astonishing 34
>> percent jump from the amount of money spent on lobbying in 2001.

>> Interestingly, while many major news stories tend to focus on campaign
>> finance reform, twice as much money has been spent on lobbying Congress
>> than on federal elections since 1998. All told, corporations and special
>> interests have spent more than $12 billion on lobbying efforts over that
>> time, according to the Center for Public Integrity.

>> Congressmen Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Marty Meehan of Massachusetts
>> have introduced legislation that would, among other things, strengthen
>> lobbying disclosure requirements, slow the "revolving door" between
>> public service and lobbying and make it easier for Americans to learn
>> about who is lobbying members of Congress. Sen. Russ Feingold of
>> Wisconsin has introduced a similar version in the Senate.

>> But Congressman Emanuel says he thinks the leaders of Congress aren't
>> interested in changing the way it operates, or even the way lobbyists
>> operate.

>> "When the Speaker's gavel comes down, it's intended to open the People's
>> House, and lately it's looking like the Auction House," says Rep.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> industry gave $132 million and walked away with $135 billion in
>> additional profits."

>> The corporate lobby has become more effective recently because it's
>> hiring more experienced players, in effect creating a "revolving door"
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> agency chiefs have become lobbyists since 1998, while more than 2,200
>> former federal employees have registered as federal lobbyists.

>> The striking rise in money spent on lobbying also increases the chances
>> for abuse. Lobbyists are required to report who pays them and how much
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> PoliticalMoneyLine reports. Those expenses include 6,242 trips for 628
>> lawmakers from both political parties.

>> Alex Knott, LobbyWatch project manager at the Center for Public
>> Integrity, calls this process buying a consensus. "I think where a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> major vote happens. And this makes it almost impossible for the
>> individual's voice to penetrate the loud buzz that comes from lobbyists."

>> Americans also want to see changes in Washington: More than four in five
>> Americans believe it would be a "very serious" or "moderately serious"
>> ethical breach if their member of Congress took a trip paid for by a
>> lobbyist, according to a recent USAToday/CNN/Gallup poll.

>> Lobbyists aren't the only ones to blame for the current business-first
>> environment in Washington, but they're enabling those corporate interests
>> to cozy up to our nation's elected officials. We must take action to
>> return Congress to the business of the American citizenry, not the
>> business of the corporate supremacists.

>> <snip insult>

>> If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under
>> the correct subject title, your choice.

>>>>Mark Probert in his usual dishonesty makes a deceiving title:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 211 lines]
>>>>If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under
>>>>the correct subject title, your choice.
Mark Probert - 24 Sep 2005 13:40 GMT
> My answer was sufficient, NO need to go over it again.
>
> The end.

Nope. Not at all, hater of the Constitution.

In this response you you, it appears that you went to GoogleGroups and
cut and pasted from there into your newsreader, so as to remove my post
without having to say that you snipped.

This tipped me off:

> - Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

I went to GoogleGroups and found that I was correct. I know you will
deny it, but, that is a lie. The two lines I cite above are nowhere else
in this exchange.

You are a SNEAK.

> Mark Probert" <markprob...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 392 lines]
>>>>>If you want to continue the rest of the discussion, I will do so under
>>>>>the correct subject title, your choice.
 
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