Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005
Interaction of silver nanoparticles with HIV-1
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dali - 14 Sep 2005 20:28 GMT Abstract
The interaction of nanoparticles with biomolecules and microorganisms is an expanding field of research. Within this field, an area that has been largely unexplored is the interaction of metal nanoparticles with viruses. In this work, we demonstrate that silver nanoparticles undergo a size-dependent interaction with HIV-1, with nanoparticles exclusively in the range of 1-10 nm attached to the virus. The regular spatial arrangement of the attached nanoparticles, the center-to-center distance between nanoparticles, and the fact that the exposed sulfur-bearing residues of the glycoprotein knobs would be attractive sites for nanoparticle interaction suggest that silver nanoparticles interact with the HIV-1 virus via preferential binding to the gp120 glycoprotein knobs. Due to this interaction, silver nanoparticles inhibit the virus from binding to host cells, as demonstrated in vitro.
http://www.jnanobiotechnology.com/content/3/1/6
David Wright - 15 Sep 2005 05:04 GMT >Abstract > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >glycoprotein knobs. Due to this interaction, silver nanoparticles >inhibit the virus from binding to host cells, as demonstrated in vitro. Lots of things work in vitro. Bleach works in vitro -- but drinking it won't cure AIDS.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dali - 15 Sep 2005 06:07 GMT >>Abstract >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Lots of things work in vitro. Bleach works in vitro -- but drinking >it won't cure AIDS. I've already posted many in-vivo findings but here's another.
New Catheter-Electrode System Features Silver
By Samuel Etris, Senior Technical Consultant to The Silver Institute
A new catheter-electrode system, using a low-intensity current to push bacteria and virus-fighting silver ions into the bloodstream, has been patented by a Pennsylvania company.
The catheter combines a silver electrode inserted into the patient's blood stream with a second electrode placed on the nearby skin. The combined action releases silver ions into the blood for immediate reaction with pathogens such as HIV viruses. The silver ions do not attack normal human cells because these cells have protective walls, which is not the case for bacteria, viruses and fungi.
Studies revealed in U.S. Patent, No. 6,066,489 - assigned to Arrow International, Inc. of Reading, Pennsylvania - show improvement by HIV patients treated with in-blood silver ions. One patient prior to treatment had over two million copies of the HIV virus per milliliter of blood and had an infection fighter cell (T4 cells) count of 18. The patient was experiencing serious kidney malfunction. Within 24 hours after silver ion treatment, the HIV virus count dropped to about one million copies and T4 cells fell to 11. One month after treatment began, the HIV virus count was again halved and the Patient's overall health improved.
The catheter-electrode system is intended to be a universal aid in treating blood-borne infections otherwise extremely difficult to treat or cure once infection has begun. Blood-borne viruses can completely overwhelm a patient, defeating the immune system and leading to death.
The catheter electrode is 97.8 percent silver, 2 percent Platinum, and 0.2 percent copper. The silver supplies the active silver ion; platinum acts as a catalyst to aid in the release of the silver ions and prevents a buildup of oxides on the electrode. Copper controls the release rate of the silver from the electrode. The small amount of silver introduced into the patient's bloodstream, and the extremely low levels of current, are both highly effective and physiologically safe.
Silver News - June / July 2001
http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html
killthebugg - 15 Sep 2005 08:40 GMT how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
> >>Abstract > >> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html dali - 15 Sep 2005 15:38 GMT > how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease? > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > > > http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research. However, no patent = no research China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that
Rich - 15 Sep 2005 16:38 GMT >> how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease? >> [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. > God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that I read recently that there is exactly zero research published in China reporting negative results. It's a cultural thing. But it's not good science.
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--Rich
Recommended websites:
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dali - 15 Sep 2005 23:37 GMT >>> how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease? >>> [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >reporting negative results. It's a cultural thing. But it's not good >science. Can't argue with that but the government is driving toward erradicating disease. Why? for one SARS cost them over 70 billion dollars. The stuff they are doing with silver and silver compounds is quit amazing. America on the other hand has a billion/trillion? dollar industry which feeds off disease. Also if you think the NEJM is good science and bias free, i got a bridge I'd like to sell ya.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:41 GMT >>>>how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > erradicating disease. Why? for one SARS cost them over 70 billion > dollars. $70 Billion? Care ot document that? AFAIAC, the Chinese consider SARS just another means of population control.
http://www.buyusa.gov/china/en/sars11.html http://www.buyusa.gov/china/en/sars13.html http://www.gattiassociates.com/CM/ImportantDevelopments/ImportantDevelopments2745.asp
The stuff they are doing with silver and silver compounds is
> quit amazing. America on the other hand has a billion/trillion? dollar > industry which feeds off disease.
> Also if you think the NEJM is good science and bias free, i got a > bridge I'd like to sell ya. Yes, they are biased in favor of fact based medicine. Far more so that those critters selling useless crap.
Mark Probert - 15 Sep 2005 22:28 GMT >>how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease? >> [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by > Colloidal silver. The plural of anecdote is not data.
We desperately need more research. However, no patent
> = no research WRONG, Kemo Sabe!
Money for research is available through NCCAM, where all the researchers have got to guarantee is that the raw data and the results are public records.
Oops...that must be what is scaring off Prof. Argentum, and Dr. Tonto. If they find it is useless, then that would be bad for business.
Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth.
> China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. > God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that I see, so you think G-d will bless a country whee there is forced abortion because they may research silver.
You sure are in a serious need of a reality check and a values re-alignment.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 00:29 GMT >The plural of anecdote is not data. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Oops...that must be what is scaring off Prof. Argentum, and Dr. Tonto. >If they find it is useless, then that would be bad for business. Your forgetting that silver is NOT a complimentary medicine. It is and has always been an allopathic medicine.
>Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth. Nope I've been watching this. The little guys are being pushed aside. Example: The FDA specifically ruled that silver gels and ointments were banned because of "no proven benefits" (god i hate that term). Yet here come curad with bandaids made of silver. Get the picture?
>> China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. >> God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >You sure are in a serious need of a reality check and a values >re-alignment. What I think/see is that the only country preparing for that eventual plague is China. God favors the prepared.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:51 GMT >>The plural of anecdote is not data. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Your forgetting that silver is NOT a complimentary medicine. It is and > has always been an allopathic medicine. I am forgetting nothing. The criteria for qualifying for NCCAM grants is whether the issue falls within previously established medical science, or whether the use is outside of that.
For example...take cheatlation. It is a well established treatment for certain types of heavy metal poisoning, thus bringing the procedure within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for treating atherosclerosis. If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing.
Here is some space for your next feeble attempt at proving you are wrong:
[] (try not to use all of it.)
>>Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth. > > Nope I've been watching this. The little guys are being pushed aside. > Example: The FDA specifically ruled that silver gels and ointments > were banned because of "no proven benefits" (god i hate that term). > Yet here come curad with bandaids made of silver. Get the picture? Not at all. Does CURAD have any clinical proof of the efficacy of their product? Are burn dressings made with a similar material? Perhaps the gels and ointments are in a medium which renders them useless.
The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is effective and gives the patient a benefit.
And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why scam artists target the gullible.
>>>China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. >>>God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What I think/see is that the only country preparing for that eventual > plague is China. God favors the prepared. Not really. Darwin favors the prepared.
As for preparing for the eventual plague, some countries are saying that a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than cure.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 15:48 GMT > >>The plural of anecdote is not data. > >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Here is some space for your next feeble attempt at proving you are wrong: Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops) therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study. That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove is that the NCCAM are ineffective.
> [] (try not to use all of it.) > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > product? Are burn dressings made with a similar material? Perhaps the > gels and ointments are in a medium which renders them useless. Curad states on it's package it kills a whole list of bacteria. How are they capable of doing this yet the FDA states no one else can? Maybe you can explain that one to me? Where you serious with that gel comment? Hope not, read on.
> The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not > taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is > effective and gives the patient a benefit. > > And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why > scam artists target the gullible. Because "proven" in their minds could mean anything. It's a total waste of words.
Speaking of gels look what I found. AND they didn't even go through the NCCAM. Perhaps you can explain to me how they accomplished this.
Topical Silver An Effective Defense Against MRSA Threat 14 Jul 2005 email this article to a friend printer friendly version view all opinions on this write an opinion on this
AcryMed Inc, a medical device company specializing in wound care and infection control technology, today released research findings that show silver to be effective in combating MRSA topically, a potentially deadly infection that is raising growing concern among the medical community. MRSA (Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is a type of germ dubbed a "super bug' due to its resistance against penicillin and other common antibiotics.
According to a recent study conducted by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, MRSA - an infection once confined to the hospital environment, is now quickly spreading among the general population. The CDC estimates that roughly 130,000 people are hospitalized with MRSA each year. Improperly treated, MRSA - which can be easily spread by casual contact via open cuts, rug burns and scrapes - can quickly become a difficult to treat and potentially deadly infection.
The current alarm over the spread of community MRSA is heightened by the fact that the microbe is resistant to penicillin, methicillin and most other antibiotics commonly used to treat infection. Some clinicians within the medical community have expressed deep concern that MRSA and other so-called "super bugs" can eventually become uncontrollable.
The new study from AcryMed confirms earlier findings that silver is a highly effective antimicrobial against MRSA and may be used topically to prevent the spread of infection.
"The results of our laboratory testing show that the infection fighting properties of silver is quite effective in killing the MRSA strain," said Bruce Gibbins, founder and CTO of AcryMed. "Used in medical dressings or in ointment form, silver can be an extremely useful first defense in stopping MRSA before it develops into a systemic infection. More over, due to the nature of antimicrobial silver, it is highly unlikely that MRSA or other developing strains of staph infections will ever build immunities to silver as they have to penicillin and some topical antibiotics."
According to Gibbins, the use of topical silver antimicrobial products in fighting infections also serves to reduce the over use of antibiotics. This, in turn, can delay the growing immunity that these bugs are quickly building against penicillin and other commonly used antibiotics.
An Ancient Treatment
Silver has long been recognized for its infection-fighting properties. In Ancient Greece and Rome, silver was used to fight infections and control spoilage. In 1893, the botanist von Nageli discovered that minute concentrations of silver contained microbiocidal properties.
Today, silver is commonly recognized by the medical community as a valuable antimicrobial for treating wounds and burns. Recent breakthroughs in ionic silver technology have produced new products that make next-generation silver antimicrobials more effective and easier to use than ever before. AcryMed, leaders in silver antimicrobial technology has developed several patented products that sustain the effective infection-fighting properties of silver from several hours to up to seven days. AcryMed is the only company to make a silver antimicrobial product that comes in a gel form. SilvaSorbÒ Gel is easy to apply on all types of cuts and scrapes - making it particularly effective as a first-line defense in fighting MRSA.
"With the recent spread of MRSA, people must take special precautions and doctors need to consider antibiotic-resistant strains when treating infections," said Gibbins. "By washing and applying a long-lasting silver antimicrobial product to scrapes and cuts, people can stop MRSA before they become serious infections."
SilvaSorb is distributed in the U.S. exclusively by Medline Industries. The company manufactures and distributes more than 100,000 products to hospitals, extended care facilities, surgery centers, home care dealers and agencies and other markets. Medline can be contacted at www.medline.com or (800) 633-5463.
AcryMed http://www.acrymed.com
Since 1993, AcryMed has been at the forefront of breakthroughs in the areas of wound care and infection prevention. The company's technologies and products are currently licensed by distribution partners and used today in hospitals, doctors' offices, and clinics around the world. For more information on AcryMed, visit their website at acrymed.com or call (503) 624-9830.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid'431
<snip rest due to check mate>
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:32 GMT >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for >>treating atherosclerosis. ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal poisoning, and not established for treating atherosclerosis.
If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
>>funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since >>they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before > traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops) It is hard to forget about something that works.
> therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study. > That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove > is that the NCCAM are ineffective. Wrong. Using my logic the NCCAM would fund a study, if the SilverShills would apply for the money. Since there is NO EVIDENCE that they have, then they, i.e., the SilverShils, recognize that their treatment is dubious at best.
>>[] (try not to use all of it.) >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you can explain that one to me? Where you serious with that gel > comment? Hope not, read on. Here is what Curad says:
Curad® Silver
Silver dressings are used regularly in the hospital setting to help control infections in major wounds and burns. Now, consumers can use silver for at-home first aid emergencies with the Curad® Silver Bandage line. Curad® Silver Bandages use silver in the wound pad, which acts as a natural antibacterial. Laboratory testing showed that silver reduced bacterial growth like Staph. aureaus, E. coli, E. hirae and Pseudomonas aeruginosa in the dressing for 24 hours.
>>The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not >>taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Because "proven" in their minds could mean anything. It's a total waste > of words. No, it is not. Altiemed alters the meaning of words to suit them. Proven, however, means just that: clear reproducible evidence to support the claim.
> Speaking of gels look what I found. AND they didn't even go through the > NCCAM. > Perhaps you can explain to me how they accomplished this. They financed it themselves, or the CDC financed it. I raised NCCAm because YOU claimed that there was no way to pay for the research. You were wrong, but, in true JanDrewian mode, refuse to admit it.
> Topical Silver An Effective Defense Against MRSA Threat > 14 Jul 2005 [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > - can quickly become a difficult to treat and potentially deadly > infection. Uh-oh....the CDC financed it...since it came from the government, how can you believe it?
> The current alarm over the spread of community MRSA is heightened by > the fact that the microbe is resistant to penicillin, methicillin and [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > <snip rest due to check mate> Are you comparing topic vs. ingested silver?
JohnDoe - 16 Sep 2005 18:56 GMT >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before So was bloodletting at one time.
> traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops) > therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study. > That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove > is that the NCCAM are ineffective. What it indicates is that the 'silver salesmen' are not interested in research, cause they damn well know the result is going to be negative.
--snip--
dali - 16 Sep 2005 20:00 GMT > >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > --snip-- Uh, have you been reading the thread? Silver is alive and well in the medical community. Doctors are presribing it. (mine did) and hospitals are secretly experimenting with it. Everyone knows about it except I guess the NCCAM.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:10 GMT >>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > medical community. Doctors are presribing it. (mine did) and hospitals > are secretly experimenting with it. Cannot be much of a secret if you know about it.
Everyone knows about it except I
> guess the NCCAM. That is because the SilverShills are afraid of NCCAM rules, regs and standards (like publishing their findings, including the raw data).
Yes, the NCCAM is bad for their business.
Rich - 16 Sep 2005 15:48 GMT >>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why > scam artists target the gullible. Actually, Mark, silver is an efficacious treatment for partial and full thickness burns.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/silversulf_ids.htm
--Rich
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:34 GMT >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/silversulf_ids.htm I am aware of that...recently had a tour of a trauma center's associated burn unit (amazing what a donation can get you). However, does this prove that ingested silver has a medicinal effect?
Nope.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT > >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Nope. Would you like to find out?
Rich - 16 Sep 2005 17:12 GMT >> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Would you like to find out? Nope.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:04 GMT >>> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > >Nope. this is clearly a lunatic and/or pharmablogger answer.
At least Mark was smart enough not to say such a thing Want to give your reasonings behind it?
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 17:15 GMT >>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Would you like to find out? Yes. Tell the sellers of this to apply to NCCAM for the appropriate funding for a well designed study.
Just do not worry...I will not hold my breath until I turn blue waiting for them to do it.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 17:37 GMT > >>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. > >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Just do not worry...I will not hold my breath until I turn blue waiting > for them to do it. and this does not bother you in the least. interesting. (not really)
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:13 GMT >>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > and this does not bother you in the least. interesting. (not really) Oh, yes, it does bother me quite a bit. People promoting a substance which can turn them permanently into
http://tinyurl.com/8zcvy
Yes, it does bother me that there are those people who prey on others by claiming that a substance used for its topical antibiotic properties will do the same if ingested.
Yes, dali, fraud does bother me.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:18 GMT >>>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > >Yes, dali, fraud does bother me. Well guess what bothers me. Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR. In other words we have plenty of guinea pigs to test silver on. But we don't most likely due to GREED. The ignorance defense ran out.
I say why not experiment on these people whose death is assured if we do not.
You say f.ck'em.
Yes Mark, greedocide tends to get on my nerves and those who defend it most definitely have blood on their hands.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:23 GMT >>>>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > Well guess what bothers me. > Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR. It was but a metter of time before you brought out this old saw...when you go into a hospital you are going in around sick people...infections happen...they should be avoided...but they happen. However, there is NO intent to cause them.
With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money.
You will not see the difference.
> In other words we have plenty of guinea pigs to test silver on. > But we don't most likely due to GREED. The ignorance defense ran out. Nope. Not at all. As Rich posted, there are silver based wound dressings which are used.
However, do you know, and guessing is not allowed, how many of those 100,000 infections are the type where topical treatment would be effective?
You see, not all infections are topical. Further, how many of those patients developed the infection prior to hospitalization and it was first manifested while in the hospital?
> I say why not experiment on these people whose death is assured if we > do not. I say treat them with what is the best treatment that is available and proven to be safe and effective.
> You say f.ck'em. Nope.
> Yes Mark, greedocide tends to get on my nerves and those who defend it > most definitely have blood on their hands. Genocide is intentional and focused on specific national, racial, political, or ethnic groups.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:20 GMT <snip>
>> Well guess what bothers me. >> Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >happen...they should be avoided...but they happen. However, there is NO >intent to cause them. I agree (on intent) but their poor hygeine practises drive it. I can post some truly horrifying stories if you like?
>With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >However, do you know, and guessing is not allowed, how many of those >100,000 infections are the type where topical treatment would be effective? I agree, topical treatment on someone say with sepsis would be useless. Heavy IV usage is required.
>You see, not all infections are topical. Further, how many of those >patients developed the infection prior to hospitalization and it was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I say treat them with what is the best treatment that is available and >proven to be safe and effective. Which is not working thus the over 100,000 deaths per year. Are you happy with the status quo? c'mon Mark they are going to die anyway, why not pump them full of silver? I'm sure they would be much happier blue and alive than dead. (in which case they will turn blue anyway.)
<snip>
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 22:46 GMT > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I agree (on intent) but their poor hygeine practises drive it. > I can post some truly horrifying stories if you like? I havce a share of my own from a new client where my field person covertly photographed some really lousy practices.
>>With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Which is not working thus the over 100,000 deaths per year. > Are you happy with the status quo? No. Fewer infections is the way to go. Better staff hygeine and willingness to vigorously enforce rules regarding hygeine will go a long way. Unfortunately, the infection rate will never equal zero.
> c'mon Mark they are going to die anyway, why not pump them full of > silver? I'm sure they would be much happier blue and alive than dead. > (in which case they will turn blue anyway.) One of the patterns we have observed is a lack of aggressive infection treatment with IV antibiotics. It seems that these studies are taking a toll on MDs where they are not acknowledging that the patient developed an infection in the hospital.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:21 GMT >>> The plural of anecdote is not data. >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for > treating atherosclerosis. ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal poisoning, and not established for treating atherosclerosis.
If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
> funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since > they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > As for preparing for the eventual plague, some countries are saying that > a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than cure. LadyLollipop - 17 Sep 2005 00:48 GMT >>>> The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal poisoning, > and not established for treating atherosclerosis. ERROR:
It is spelled C h e l a t i o n.
http://www.integrative-med.com/TOPICS/subtopics/Chelation_Therapy.html
The Sacred Cow of Bypass Surgeryby James Biddle MD
Today's topic is perhaps the most controversial of all alternative medicaltherapies - Chelation Therapy. What is it? The IV infusion of a syntheticamino acid called EDTA that binds lead and other toxic metals, pulling them outof the body thru the urine.
Why is it so controversial? Because some physicians also use it to treat vascular disease, or clogging of the arteries from cholesterol plaques. Why do conventional physicians get so outraged aboutChelation Therapy?
Because they think it doesn't work for vascular disease.To put this in perspective, let's first look at the usual and customary treatments for heart disease, or clogging of the coronary arteries. The conservative approach is to give medicines like nitrates and beta-blockers todecrease the heart's demand for oxygen, which lessens angina. The next approach is angioplasty, in which a catheter is used to balloon open thenarrowed part of the artery. The last approach is coronary artery bypass grafting, in which segments of the clogged arteries are replaced surgically.These procedures can help decrease symptoms, but are they needed and do they improve survival?
A Harvard group of cardiologists published two studies in JAMA showing that when patients are sent for bypass surgery or angioplasty, 75-80% were judged not to require the procedure upon referral for second opinion. Then, in the journal Circulation, there was no difference in survival between patients randomized to have either bypass surgery or conservative medical treatment.Even worse, the Lancet showed that when patients were randomized to have either angioplasty or conservative medical treatment, the angioplasty group actually had more heart attacks and deaths (6.3%) than the medical group (3.3%).
Therefore, the published data show that these invasive and expensive procedures are 75-80% unjustified and do not improve survival overall.
***On the other hand, studies published in the Journal of Advancement in Medicine show that of 22,765 vascular patients treated with IV Chelation Therapy, 87% had objectively-measured improvements. In addition, 30 patients with narrowing of the carotid artery had an average of 30% improvement by ultrasound after 30 treatments of EDTA. But my favorite study is from Denmark, where they gave IV Chelation Therapy to vascular patients who were already on the waiting list for either bypass surgery or leg amputation. Using IV EDTA, 58 of 65 bypass patients and 24 of 27 amputation patients were able to cancel their surgeriesand walk away.****
With such remarkable data, why is Chelation Therapy not given moreconsideration? I believe the main culprits are publication bias and paradigm boxes.
****You see, the Journal of Advancement in Medicine is not listed in the National Library of Medicine, so the "powers that be" will not consider the data.****
***However, all the journals that are listed have refused to publish any positive studies concerning Chelation Therapy, while they are happy to publish negative studies.****
That's publication bias. A paradigm box is the limitation of our ability to consider a concept or option outside of our current knowledge and training. Physicians truly have the best interests of their patients at heart, but
***they've been fundamentally trained to reject Chelation Therapy,***
***so are generally unwilling or unable to take an honest look at the data.***
***Unfortunately, their paradigm box has been constructed by the huge pharmaceutical giants, who are the sole advertisers of every medical journal listed in the National Library of Medicine.***
I dare to say that they have a vested financial interest in suppressing knowledge of a relatively inexpensive, non-invasive, and non-toxic alternative for treating vascular disease.
****I've seen scores of vascular patients improve dramatically with ChelationTherapy.***
Just as in the studies above,
****I've seen about 80% respond favorably,***
which makes me think that probably 20% of patients actually will benefit from angioplasty or bypass surgery. Maybe if we limit these procedures to those who first fail a trial of Chelation Therapy, we actually can improve survival and also save Medicare from bankruptcy.
tp://www.drcranton.com/chelation/carter.htm
Both the CCHI and the National Council on Health Fraud purport to be scientific and authoritative sources of information. A significant portion of their activities, however, have nothing to do with real quackery, but are rather a means to coerce practitioners of medicine to adhere to practices approved by medical politicians. The end result is to preserve certain monopolistic and economic advantages enjoyed by organized medicine.
An important reason that research into the use of EDTA in the treatment of atherosclerosis and its complications stopped after 1960, until the mid 1980s,was because of an
*** active and vicious campaign of misinformation and unjust harassment of physicians who used EDTA in their practices. Scientific researchers who showed an interest were also discouraged and harassed.***
http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p182.htm#quack
Here is the photo of the man behind the web sitehttp://www.quackwatch.com/index.html. He often attacks various health products and practices by making false claims about them, as if those claims came FROM them, and then knocks down these straw men of his own device.
****One of the most ***evil*** people on the web is a former psychiatrist who lashes out against just about every possible alternative health product or practice. It is, in fact, a hall of fame. If you are mentioned in his pages you can assume you are doing a good job! He attacks chelation therapy, of course, but he selects a "straw man" to attack. In other words, the early explanation of how chelation therapy works is well proven to be false, event hough many people are still repeating those lies. But, the more thoughtful intravenous doctors have discarded this early theory and gone on to the second theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found effective in chelating and removing toxic metals from the blood, some scientists postulated that hardened arteries could be softened ifthe calcium in their walls was removed. The first indication that EDTA treatment might benefit patients with atherosclerosis came from Clarke, Clarke,and Mosher, who, in 1956, reported that patients with occlusive peripheralvascular disease said they felt better after treatment with EDTA [AmericanJournal of Medical Science 230:654-666, 1956]. (Source)
http://drcranton.com/chelation/rebuttal.htm
BUSTING THE QUACKBUSTERS REBUTTAL TO "QUACKWATCH" WEBSITE OPPOSING CHELATION THERAPY:
By Elmer M. Cranton, M.D.
There exist a number of self-styled medical thought-police types who call themselves "quack busters." They are fond of attacking alternative and emerging medical therapies in favor of the existing medical monopoly. They even have their own Quackwatch Internet website. It is uncertain where the money comes from to fund those efforts, but it might be enlightening to trace that money back to its original source. One investigator alleges that funding comes from pharmaceutical manufacturers.
For years these so-called quackbusters have attacked nutritional supplementation with high potency multi-vitamins as "quackery." As summarized elsewhere on this website (Nutrition In The News), recent scientific studies now prove that virtually anyone can benefit from nutritional supplementation. With egg on their faces from this recent vitamin research, those same critics continue to attack chelation therapy. I will now answer, point by point, an article on the Quackwatch website by Dr. Saul Green entitled "CHELATION THERAPY: UNPROVEN CLAIMS AND UNSOUND THEORIES," in which Dr. Green attempts to discredit EDTA chelation using half-truths, speculation, and false statements.
ALSO Click Here to read:
A MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR BUSTS THE QUACKBUSTERS
Opponents and critics of EDTA chelation, such as Saul Green, rarely state that chelation "does not work" or that chelation is "proven not to work." Instead they merely state that it is "unproven." They are evasive and set a double standard. Bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and close to 80% of all other therapies routinely used by medical doctors in everyday practice are also "unproven," using those same unreasonable standards. Most widely-accepted and traditional medical therapies have never been subjected to double-blind, placebo controlled clinical trials costing many millions of dollars?as demanded by opponents of chelation therapy.
Detractors of chelation therapy insist that large, multimillion-dollar studies be performed, giving half the patients a placebo, with the placebo group "blinded"?unknown to the investigators until the study is complete (called "double-blind" because neither the doctors nor the patients know who gets the placebo and who gets the active medication). Drug companies are required by the FDA to test new prescription drugs in this manner before they can make marketing claims. On the other hand, bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and most other widely accepted medical procedures have never been subjected to that type of testing. Because patent protection has long since expired on EDTA, there is no source of funding for such a study. N.I.H., the government source for research money, has repeatedly refused to fund a research grant to study EDTA chelation.
Saul Green makes an issue of an FTC ruling in 1998 relating to advertising for EDTA chelation therapy. Because the FDA has not yet approved EDTA chelation therapy for treatment of atherosclerosis, the FTC ruled that it is not proper to imply otherwise in advertisements to the lay public. The informed consent provided to patients by chelation doctors has always made that fact clear, but once again politically powerful critics of chelation therapy have generated adverse publicity, using what was essentially a non-issue. That FTC ruling was based partly on their opinion that professional physicians associations, such as the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), should not advertise directly to the lay public. The FTC ruling does not apply to the doctor patient relationship. Training courses on chelation therapy continue to be given to practicing physicians twice yearly by ACAM.
Drug companies quickly patent their newly developed remedies, which allows them to charge high prices (usually a dollar or more per capsule, sometimes much more) to recapture their millions of dollars in expenses for the FDA-required double blind studies. EDTA is a generic drug. Patent protection expired many years ago. Double-blind placebo studies of adequate size have therefore never been funded and probably will not be funded in the future unless N.I.H. or a private foundation can be convinced to do so with either public or philanthropic funds. (In 2002 a $30 million research proposal for a multi-center study of EDTA chelation therapy is under consideration by N.I.H. Let's all hope that it gets funded.)
Many highly positive smaller studies have been published proving EDTA chelation therapy, reporting objective measurements of before and after improvements. Statistical analyses of those improvements are highly significant. Summaries of those studies can be read on the following webpage: Chelation Research. A chapter from my recent book, Bypassing Bypass Surgery, summarizes the vast amount of research supporting EDTA chelation therapy.
Those studies that support EDTA chelation are good science and are scientifically valid. Only if it is assumed that placebo effect could cause long-term, sustained increases in objective blood flow measurements to the brain, heart and extremities through diseased arteries can those studies be ignored. Placebo effect has never been observed to last more than 6 months. Benefit from chelation therapy comes on slowly; increasing for 3 to 5 months after treatment is complete and persisting for years after a course of therapy. Placebo benefit has never acted that way.
Saul Green's quackbuster attack on chelation therapy states that those published studies are poorly designed and therefore meaningless. I challenge any educated lay reader to review those studies and not be impressed. It always desirable to have bigger and better studies. There is always room for improvement. That same statement could be made about any study ever published. All of the existing clinical data is positive and highly significant on statistical analysis. Independent researchers, at different research facilities, using different technology, were able to duplicate the positive findings of increased blood flow through blocked arteries. Statistical analysis continues to show consistent high significance.
The bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty industries gross upwards of $6 billion per year. The cardiovascular drug industry takes in upwards of $100 billion dollars per year. If the existing studies of chelation therapy were to be accepted as valid, those industries would suffer enormous losses. They have no reason to want to see chelation therapy accepted.
In recent years opponents of chelation have published several a number of small sham studies, falsely alleging that EDTA chelation does not work. In every instance those studies were actually supportive of EDTA chelation therapy, but they contained an erroneous conclusion otherwise. Click here for an analysis of deceptive studies. The recent PATCH study in Calgary, Canada, is a truly blatant example of that practice. That kind of junk science proves nothing, and the studies cited actually contain evidence to support EDTA chelation therapy. Nonetheless, they are quickly published in mainstream medical journals, interspersed with full-page, four-color advertisements for new and expensive pharmaceutical drugs. The news media then prominently print articles stating that EDTA chelation therapy has been proven not to work.
A wise consumer will review all existing sources of information and then make up his or her own mind about what is best. A Ford salesman will most likely tell you that a Ford is superior to a Chevrolet and vice versa. Consumers should be allowed to decide what feels right for them, without being subjected to a "time-bomb-in-chest" hard-sell, with a high-pressure, frightening sales pitch at a time when they are highly vulnerable. Treadmills and angiograms are very effective and can be frightening marketing tools leading to expensive, dangerous and often unnecessary therapies.
Mark Twain once said that, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." A similar statement could be made about cardiologists, whose only tool is a catheter with balloon attached, or surgeons with their scalpels. The same might also be said of a chelation therapist. Buyer beware! Be an informed consumer. Every therapist has their own bias.
Saul Green writes that the Kitchell, Meltzer reappraisal study in 1963 showed no significant benefit. I have described their exact data on the following webpage: Chelation Critics Deceive the Public. You decide for yourself if you think it shows significant benefit or not. For political, economic and other unknown reasons, researchers occasionally interpret their data in a way that fits their personal prejudices, either positive or negative. When an unbiased, objective appraisal is made of that same data, the opposite conclusion can sometimes be supported. That has happened repeatedly with chelation therapy. The facts are presented (Chelation Critics Deceive the Public) to enable readers to form their own opinions.
Saul Green states that chelation is "not recognized by the scientific community." That is not true unless it is assumed that the many highly trained physicians who administer chelation therapy are not scientific. He engages in name-calling. Doctors who disagree with Saul Green are called unscientific. Various segments of the medical community join together in professional associations with the goal of protecting their turf and maintaining a monopoly in their field as much as possible. It is not justified for one such group to state that other medical scientists who disagree are "unscientific." This merely represents a disagreement between experts, between differing factions of the medical profession-a common occurrence in any profession. Emerging, complimentary and alternative therapies often confront that type of bias.
Saul Green writes that at least fifteen different reports document that EDTA did not benefit patients. That is not true! For the most part, he cites letters to the editor, which report an occasional treatment failure. No therapy is 100% effective and treatment failures do occur with EDTA. However, more than 85% of patients have been helped. These anecdotal reports of treatment failures are used by critics, but anecdotal reports of treatment success are rejected by critics. This represents more evidence of the double standard. Saul Green also misrepresents the the unscientific studies previously mentioned as documenting that EDTA chelation does not work, Chelation Critics Deceive the Public.
Arteriograms before and after treatment are demanded by critics to prove benefit from chelation therapy. It is not possible, however, to accurately measure decreases in atherosclerotic plaque unless the diameter of the artery is increased by approximately 25%. In the presence of turbulent blood flow past plaques, it requires only a 10% increase in arterial diameter to double the flow of blood (Poiseuille's Law of hemodynamics as can be found in any textbook of medical physiology or biophysics). As proven in studies, arteriograms and ultrasound are not sensitive enough to consistently measure changes of less than 25% in the diameter of a blood vessel. Increases much less than that can greatly relieve or totally eliminate symptoms, and are not detectable on arteriograms. Studies which measure heart and organ function and total blood flow consistently prove that EDTA chelation therapy is highly beneficial.
If patients improve their physical endurance, if exercise tolerance increases and if symptoms improve, that provides good scientific evidence of benefit. If measurements of walking distance on a treadmill with an uphill incline consistently increase after treatment and with statistical significance, that is valid scientific proof of benefit. Angiograms are not sensitive enough to measure even a doubling in blood flow. Angiograms are marketing tools frequently used to justify bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty; however, angiograms cannot show increases in arterial diameter that can increase blood flow by 200% or more. They do, however, show the surgeons where to cut and are necessary to place a balloon or stent in angioplasty. And sometimes those procedures are necessary.
Saul Green is in error when he states that the Curt Diehm study in Germany did not show benefit. The raw data from that study has been analyzed by medical school professors in the United States and found to be highly positive, as documented in detail on the following webpage: Critique of the Heidelberg Study. Patients who received EDTA increased their walking distance by an average of 400%, compared to 60% increase in the control group patients, who received an active drug, not a placebo. The manufacturer of the control drug funded the study and reserved the right to manipulate and report the data in their own way. Patients who responded best were eliminated from the final data. Final results were measured immediately, 3 months before full improvement from EDTA could be expected. Analysis of raw data from that study proves that EDTA chelation therapy was highly effective in treating arterial blockage in the legs.
The adverse side effects described by Saul Green were reported many years ago when massive doses of EDTA were infused in a very short time. Any medicine given in overdose can cause harm. There are no documented reports of harm when EDTA has been administered using the currently approved protocol. In rare reports of adverse side-effects, the current protocol was not followed. Even when administered improperly, 10 deaths in a million patients indicates that chelation is infinitely safer than surgery or balloon angioplasty, which result in death from complications in approximately 3 out of every hundred patients treated.
Fifty thousand people die in automobile accidents every year and another 200,000 are seriously injured. I tell my patients that the drive to the clinic in an automobile to get chelation therapy is statistically far more dangerous that the chelation they receive after they arrive. More than 8,000 deaths and 200,000 hospitalizations each year result from complications of ibuprofen, naproxen, aspirin and other widely accepted pain remedies, many of which are available without prescription. EDTA chelation therapy is infinitely safer than even those treatments. Critics of chelation therapy never put things in proper perspective.
Saul Green goes on to speculate about a number of theoretical reasons why chelation therapy might possibly be dangerous. He completely ignores the amazing safety record of a million patients who have received the therapy. The dangers of surgery and angioplasty are well proven, not just theoretical?three percent death rate and twenty percent or more serious but non-fatal complications. It is not necessary to merely speculate why invasive procedures might possibly cause harm. Saul Green's statements about why chelation might be dangerous have not been supported by more than 40 years of experience.
The Danish study mentioned by Saul Green was misrepresented and proved nothing. It was actually a positive study and showed benefit from chelation therapy.
Saul Green states that the FDA once had EDTA chelation on their list of "Health Care Frauds." The FDA has long since removed chelation therapy from that list, and for good reason. Why did they do that?
In my opinion, it is a beneficial and highly cost effective therapy.
BE SURE TO READ:
If EDTA Chelation Therapy is so Good, Why Is It Not More Widely Accepted? by Dr. James P. Carter, MD, DrPH
A Professor of Cardiology Critiques Bypass Surgery.
Chelation Critics Deceive the Public by Elmer M. Cranton, MD
ttp://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=166
PATIENTS CANCEL BYPASS SURGERIES AFTER EDTA TREATMENTS It is common place for physicians to help heart disease patients who have failed all the standard treatments to make remarkable - even unbelievable - recoveries, once given EDTA. Many patients on waiting lists for bypass surgery have found, after a series of EDTA chelation treatments, that they did not need the surgery. One particular study found that when 65 patients who had been on the waiting list for bypass surgery for an average of six months were treated with EDTA, the symptoms in 89% of them improved so much that they canceled their surgery.3
http://www.healingdaily.com/oral-chelation/oral-edta-chelation.htm
EDTA removes toxic metals from the blood. Studies have shown that as people age they continuously accumulate toxic metals: lead, mercury, aluminum, iron, cadmium, and arsenic, among others. The accrual of these toxins invites an increased risk for various diseases, especially heart disease. The less of these metals we have in our bodies, the more likely we are to be physiologically healthy or simply feel good, and the lower our risk for heart disease. Because EDTA is so effective at removing unwanted metals and other minerals from the blood, it has been the standard, FDA-approved treatment for lead, mercury, aluminum, and cadmium poisoning for more than 50 years. EDTA normalizes the distribution of most metallic elements in the body.
> If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be >> funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than >> cure. Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:25 GMT >>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > It is spelled C h e l a t i o n. I spell it CHEATlation because it cheats people out of their lives.
LadyLollipop - 17 Sep 2005 05:28 GMT >>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > I spell it CHEATlation because it cheats people out of their lives. Not only do you spell it wrong, you lie, as usually.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 22:47 GMT >>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Not only do you spell it wrong, you lie, as usually. Nope. It cheated a 5 year old boy.....
David Wright - 16 Sep 2005 03:19 GMT >Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by >Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research. What you desperately need is something better than unverified anecdotes.
>However, no patent = no research You obviously are unaware of the research going on with, e.g, aspirin.
>China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research. And whatever they publish will be positive. How wonderful.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
cathyb - 16 Sep 2005 12:00 GMT > >Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by > >Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And whatever they publish will be positive. How wonderful. Indeed. A study done by researchers for the Research Council for Complementary Medicine found that "No trial published in China or Russia/USSR found a test treatment to be ineffective".
Even they were slightly concerned; the abstract is at:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9551280&query_hl=9
(PMID: 9551280)
Cathy
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:31 GMT >Indeed. A study done by researchers for the Research Council for >Complementary Medicine found that "No trial published in China or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Cathy Interesting. This is how it works in america.
If corporations want a profit-saving research result they will design the research and find the fool to do it ...regardless of the facts or catastrophic consequences. See study - corporations qualify as psychopaths.
Here is one example.
The study was designed to provide patients with intensive antibiotics. Although one month of ceftriaxone and two months of doxycycline would be considered intensive for the treatment of many acute infectious diseases, few physicians who shoulder the responsibility of treating chronic Lyme disease would consider this to be an adequate retreatment for a patient with late-stage Lyme disease who had failed prior courses of significant treatment.
http://www.canlyme.com/klempbrans.html
David Wright - 16 Sep 2005 03:18 GMT >>>Abstract >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >bacteria and virus-fighting silver ions into the bloodstream, has been >patented by a Pennsylvania company. <snip>
>Silver News - June / July 2001 2001. Four years ago. Who's using this system now? Plenty of time to get the word out by this point.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dali - 16 Sep 2005 10:40 GMT >>>>Abstract >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >2001. Four years ago. Who's using this system now? Plenty of time >to get the word out by this point. Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:52 GMT >>>>>Abstract >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it. A patent proves nothing of medical value.
JohnDoe - 16 Sep 2005 18:52 GMT >>>>>Abstract >>>>> >>>>>The interaction of nanoparticles with biomolecules and microorganisms >>>>>is an expanding field of research. Within this field, an area that has -snip-
>>>Silver News - June / July 2001 >> >>2001. Four years ago. Who's using this system now? Plenty of time >>to get the word out by this point. > > Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it. So the press decides what things doctors do and do not use? I see.....
dali - 16 Sep 2005 19:19 GMT > >>>>>Abstract > >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > So the press decides what things doctors do and do not use? I see..... The number of corporations controlling most of Americas daily newspapers, magazines, radio and television stations, book publishers, and movie companies is five. Thats right 5. one thing they do not want to do is offend the powerful, especially if it is they who are providing the ads $.
Make no mistake, cencorship is a reality.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:27 GMT >>>>>>>Abstract >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Make no mistake, cencorship is a reality. I just love whacko conspiracy crap.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:37 GMT >>>>>>>>Abstract >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >I just love whacko conspiracy crap. Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada? Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS? I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece. Maybe thats just me.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT >>>>>>>>>Abstract >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? They figure that their audience is a bunch of uneducated half-wits and run the story. I guess they put it right next to the stories about the four legged little green men and the boy who was born with six heads.
> It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada? Actually, it is the smallest story of the millenia.
> Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS? Because they are incurable? Yes, that must be it.
> I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece. > Maybe thats just me. Yes, it is just you, since you think that fiction writing is a substitute for scientific inquiry.
Peter Bowditch - 17 Sep 2005 01:47 GMT >Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? For the same reason that it is often the only paper to run stories about alien abductions and UFO sightings?
>It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada? What is the second-biggest story?
>Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS? Because nobody has been cured of ALS or MS, so there are no stories to write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.)
>I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece. It certainly would be, as would the Nobel Prize acceptance speech of the person who did it.
>Maybe thats just me.  Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:41 GMT >>Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that >cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.) Cures of ALS and MS are common knowledge with Lyme literate doctors.
Here is a newspaper article of one ALS patient. One would think the associated press would pick up on this story
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e.5e780553.html
Stronger Every Day With an iron will and an unconventional new treatment, Charlies Smith is going toe-to-toe with ALS
06:26 PM CDT on Saturday, April 30, 2005
By BRYAN WOOLLEY / The Dalles Morning News
MULLIN, Texas Charlie Smith is thinking about what he might do with the rest of his life.
"I don't want to go back to trucking," he says. "I want to be home every night to see my babies."
There are ranches for troubled boys in the Central Texas hills where Charlie lives. Maybe he could work at one of those, he says, or some place like them. Maybe he could be some kind of counselor.
"I'd like to tell those kids my story and what I've been through," he says. "Maybe I could help somebody who's wanting to give up."
Talking about the future is a strange new thing for Charlie. He wasn't supposed to have one.
In December 2002, doctors at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas told him he might have amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often called Lou Gehrig's disease. It weakens the body's muscles and then paralyzes them. It kills its victim, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, but always. In June 2003, the doctors reported that the diagnosis "has been confirmed."
ALS usually strikes people who are 50 or older. Charlie was only 25. The Dallas doctors said that he was the youngest ALS victim they had ever diagnosed and that young ALS victims usually die faster than older ones. The doctors predicted three to six months for Charlie, maybe a year.
"To tell somebody they have only so long to live, that really knocks a person's spirits down," Charlie says now.
Charlie first told his story to The Dallas Morning News in January 2004. He and his friends talked about what he used to be: the star of Mullin High School's six-man football team, its homecoming king, its Christmas prince, 6-foot-4 and handsome, strong-bodied and strong-willed, the leader among the little town's young men.
He and his wife, Rémy, had a 2-year-old daughter, Kyra, and 9-month-old Charlie Jr. Before his illness, Charlie drove a tractor-trailer rig, hauling stone from Mullin to home builders and landscapers in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. He was on the road nearly all the time.
His calamity began one spring day in 2002 when he stepped out of his rig, lost his balance and fell on his back. His truck driver friends laughed, but the fall was the first symptom of his illness. It signaled the horrible change that was about to happen to Charlie.
At the time of the 2004 interview, Charlie had outlived the doctors' expectations, but he was sinking. His muscles were shrinking. His speech was slow and slurred. His fingers were stiff and curled. He had trouble breathing and swallowing.
Rémy dreaded driving the 30 miles to Comanche to buy groceries. She feared what she might face when she got home. "I was scared to death that I was going to be the one to ... you know ..."
To find Charlie dead.
Rémy thought of calling a hospice to help him through. Charlie was angry and defiant and stubborn, and sometimes depressed. He vowed that, despite the impossible odds and the doctors' expectations, he would recover.
Many Morning News readers were moved by Charlie's courage. Their interest led to the establishment of a medical fund for him, administered through a church in nearby Comanche. They contributed $16,000.
A reader phoned the Smiths and told them of Dr. William T. Harvey in Houston, who was treating her husband and other patients for symptoms like Charlie's and seemed to be having some success.
Charlie and Rémy made an appointment and drove to Houston, three hours from Mullin, to meet the doctor.
Charlie says, "It was like a big weight was lifted off of us when Dr. Harvey said, 'Well, we can help you.' Before that, we had no chance. Before that, we were running down a one-way track."
The doctor
Dr. Harvey is 67 years old, a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a retired NASA aerospace physician. During his 23-year career as an Air Force officer, he served as a biomedical engineer and a flight surgeon, and later in clinical aerospace medicine and in space medicine research at the U.S. Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine. After his retirement, he managed medical facilities for NASA and for a Department of Energy nuclear facility and for Lockheed.
His résumé says he's a clinician in general medicine, but all the nearly 900 patients he says he has treated in the past four or five years have had symptoms similar to Charlie's.
His board certifications are in aerospace medicine, not internal medicine or epidemiology. But in space medicine, he says, NASA physicians weren't able to depend on medical books, because the books they needed hadn't been written yet. Now he's working without books again, he says, because what he's doing is new.
His theory is outside the mainstream of standard diagnosis and treatment. Briefly and simplistically stated, it's this: Many patients who are diagnosed with ALS, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, chronic Lyme disease, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and other motor neuron diseases actually are victims of a bacteriological infection that can be cured or at least alleviated with massive doses of certain antibiotics.
The bacillus is Borrelia burgdorferi. Dr. Harvey says it's present in the blood of millions of people around the world, often from birth. It's relatively harmless, he says, until something triggers it to attack the nerves that activate the muscles.
Its presence in the blood can't be detected by the standard tests that most labs and hospitals use. According to Dr. Harvey, only two labs in the U.S. one in Florida and one in California are equipped to find and identify it.
He hasn't done clinical trials to test his theories, nor has he been published in peer-reviewed medical journals. Many doctors are skeptical that bacteria could be the cause of a motor neuron disease.
After the California lab discovered Borrelia burgdorferi in Charlie's blood, Dr. Harvey prescribed massive doses of antibiotics, some taken orally, some administered intravenously through a catheter in Charlie's chest.
Dr. Harvey has seen Charlie three times since his initial visit. He keeps in touch with the Smiths mostly by phone.
Charting progress
During the second office visit, last September, Dr. Harvey walked Charlie through all his symptoms, to determine whether any improvement had been made.
"I can get in and out of the bathtub," Charlie said. "I can take a shower by myself. My balance has come back. I can shampoo my hair without losing my balance."
Charlie's fingers were still curled, but he could straighten them a little more than before. He said he still had headaches. His ability to swallow had improved. "I eat steak every night," he said.
He had no pain in his legs, but some in his lower back. He no longer had difficulty breathing at night. He had regained the weight he had lost. His muscles, which had been shrinking, were coming back."
"Are you irritable?" Dr. Harvey asked.
"Sometimes I wake up in the morning and just want to get out of bed and run. And I get kind of angry."
"Are you depressed?"
"No."
"This is all good," Dr. Harvey said. "You're changing. I wish it were faster. It may be a longer journey than we thought it might be. We may be talking about a couple of years, or it could be that a sudden turn is just around the corner. We're getting somewhere with the disease. I think our course is the right one. You guys are fighters. I know you're going to gut it out."
Six months later, the slow improvement continues.
Charlie's chronic fatigue is gone. He can raise his arms above his head and lift his feet an inch or two off the floor. His shoulder muscles are filling out. He can rise from his wheelchair without help, and can stand erect, although sometimes a little wobbly. His speech is still slurred, but much clearer than it has been in years. His fingers are uncurling, slowly. He's beginning physical rehabilitation sessions in Comanche.
Still a struggle
While Charlie is improving, his illness has brought suffering to Rémy as well. She has lost weight. She's exhausted. Taking care of her husband and two rambunctious small children around the clock have worn her down.
Charlie has been unable to earn a paycheck for almost three years. The Social Security disability check on which his family lives can't stretch through the month. Bill collectors harass her.
"Rémy has been through a lot of responsibilities that a lot of people wouldn't take on," Charlie says. "She has held her head up through it all. I've learned to appreciate the little things. The one good thing that has come out of all this is the time I've been at home with my kids."
Rémy, 24, laughs. "He wouldn't have ever known that Little Charlie has to have strawberry milk and Kyra loves chocolate milk," she says.
Kyra is 3 now. Little Charlie is a strapping 19-month-old. "They keep my spirits up," Charlie says. "I ain't got time to feel bad. If none of this had happened, I'd probably still be driving that truck, and I wouldn't have near the bond I have with these kids now. This is something to be proud of."
So when Charlie goes to work again, he wants to come home at night. His voice fills with energy and a kind of joy when he talks about that future day.
"At one time," he says, "I thought I was gone, that I was going away. But I'm not going nowhere no time."
Rémy's voice trembles. "The other day, I looked at him and I could see Charlie again."
dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:43 GMT >Because nobody has been cured of ALS or MS, so there are no stories to >write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that >cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.) Just to add it's not just Lyme capable of these diseases.
Evidence of Retrovirus in Blood of ALS Patients Roberta Friedman, PhD, ALSA Research Department Information Coordinator
March 2, 2005
[QUICK SUMMARY: Footprints of Retrovirus Found in ALS Patient Samples Leaves Researchers Unsure of Role of Retrovirus in the Disease]
Researchers reported in Neurology this month that blood samples collected from patients with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) contain evidence of a retroviral enzyme more often than samples from controls without the disease. The genes for the enzyme, reverse transcriptase, could be carried silently in the human genome, or the virus might be associated with ALS.
http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=610&CFID=1122835&CFTOKEN=65814433
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 23:18 GMT >>Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What is the second-biggest story? Dali getting a clue.
JohnDoe - 19 Sep 2005 08:03 GMT >>>>>>>>>Abstract >>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver? Is that the enquirer that brings us stories like 'woman grows diamonds on her toenails'? 'Britney Spears involved in satanic conspiracy'? That enquirer?
> It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada? So the conspiracy folks are capable of controlling the entire international scientific community, not to mention plenty patient organizations, but an insignificant little magazine escapes them. I see...
> Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS? Because there aren't any?
> I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece. > Maybe thats just me. No, it's not just you. Everybody would be interested in that, if only it were true.
dali - 19 Sep 2005 21:44 GMT >>>>>>>>>>Abstract >>>>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >No, it's not just you. Everybody would be interested in that, if only it >were true. Just look above in the thread. Here I'll post again.
Cures of ALS and MS are common knowledge with Lyme literate doctors.
Here is a newspaper article of one ALS patient. One would think the associated press would pick up on this story
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e.5e780553.html
Stronger Every Day With an iron will and an unconventional new treatment, Charlies Smith is going toe-to-toe with ALS
06:26 PM CDT on Saturday, April 30, 2005
By BRYAN WOOLLEY / The Dalles Morning News
MULLIN, Texas Charlie Smith is thinking about what he might do with the rest of his life.
"I don't want to go back to trucking," he says. "I want to be home every night to see my babies."
There are ranches for troubled boys in the Central Texas hills where Charlie lives. Maybe he could work at one of those, he says, or some place like them. Maybe he could be some kind of counselor.
"I'd like to tell those kids my story and what I've been through," he says. "Maybe I could help somebody who's wanting to give up."
Talking about the future is a strange new thing for Charlie. He wasn't supposed to have one.
In December 2002, doctors at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas told him he might have amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often called Lou Gehrig's disease. It weakens the body's muscles and then paralyzes them. It kills its victim, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, but always. In June 2003, the doctors reported that the diagnosis "has been confirmed."
ALS usually strikes people who are 50 or older. Charlie was only 25. The Dallas doctors said that he was the youngest ALS victim they had ever diagnosed and that young ALS victims usually die faster than older ones. The doctors predicted three to six months for Charlie, maybe a year.
"To tell somebody they have only so long to live, that really knocks a person's spirits down," Charlie says now.
Charlie first told his story to The Dallas Morning News in January 2004. He and his friends talked about what he used to be: the star of Mullin High School's six-man football team, its homecoming king, its Christmas prince, 6-foot-4 and handsome, strong-bodied and strong-willed, the leader among the little town's young men.
He and his wife, Rémy, had a 2-year-old daughter, Kyra, and 9-month-old Charlie Jr. Before his illness, Charlie drove a tractor-trailer rig, hauling stone from Mullin to home builders and landscapers in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. He was on the road nearly all the time.
His calamity began one spring day in 2002 when he stepped out of his rig, lost his balance and fell on his back. His truck driver friends laughed, but the fall was the first symptom of his illness. It signaled the horrible change that was about to happen to Charlie.
At the time of the 2004 interview, Charlie had outlived the doctors' expectations, but he was sinking. His muscles were shrinking. His speech was slow and slurred. His fingers were stiff and curled. He had trouble breathing and swallowing.
Rémy dreaded driving the 30 miles to Comanche to buy groceries. She feared what she might face when she got home. "I was scared to death that I was going to be the one to ... you know ..."
To find Charlie dead.
Rémy thought of calling a hospice to help him through. Charlie was angry and defiant and stubborn, and sometimes depressed. He vowed that, despite the impossible odds and the doctors' expectations, he would recover.
Many Morning News readers were moved by Charlie's courage. Their interest led to the establishment of a medical fund for him, administered through a church in nearby Comanche. They contributed $16,000.
A reader phoned the Smiths and told them of Dr. William T. Harvey in Houston, who was treating her husband and other patients for symptoms like Charlie's and seemed to be having some success.
Charlie and Rémy made an appointment and drove to Houston, three hours from Mullin, to meet the doctor.
Charlie says, "It was like a big weight was lifted off of us when Dr. Harvey said, 'Well, we can help you.' Before that, we had no chance. Before that, we were running down a one-way track."
The doctor
Dr. Harvey is 67 years old, a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a retired NASA aerospace physician. During his 23-year career as an Air Force officer, he served as a biomedical engineer and a flight surgeon, and later in clinical aerospace medicine and in space medicine research at the U.S. Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine. After his retirement, he managed medical facilities for NASA and for a Department of Energy nuclear facility and for Lockheed.
His résumé says he's a clinician in general medicine, but all the nearly 900 patients he says he has treated in the past four or five years have had symptoms similar to Charlie's.
His board certifications are in aerospace medicine, not internal medicine or epidemiology. But in space medicine, he says, NASA physicians weren't able to depend on medical books, because the books they needed hadn't been written yet. Now he's working without books again, he says, because what he's doing is new.
His theory is outside the mainstream of standard diagnosis and treatment. Briefly and simplistically stated, it's this: Many patients who are diagnosed with ALS, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, chronic Lyme disease, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and other motor neuron diseases actually are victims of a bacteriological infection that can be cured or at least alleviated with massive doses of certain antibiotics.
The bacillus is Borrelia burgdorferi. Dr. Harvey says it's present in the blood of millions of people around the world, often from birth. It's relatively harmless, he says, until something triggers it to attack the nerves that activate the muscles.
Its presence in the blood can't be detected by the standard tests that most labs and hospitals use. According to Dr. Harvey, only two labs in the U.S. one in Florida and one in California are equipped to find and identify it.
He hasn't done clinical trials to test his theories, nor has he been published in peer-reviewed medical journals. Many doctors are skeptical that bacteria could be the cause of a motor neuron disease.
After the California lab discovered Borrelia burgdorferi in Charlie's blood, Dr. Harvey prescribed massive doses of antibiotics, some taken orally, some administered intravenously through a catheter in Charlie's chest.
Dr. Harvey has seen Charlie three times since his initial visit. He keeps in touch with the Smiths mostly by phone.
Charting progress
During the second office visit, last September, Dr. Harvey walked Charlie through all his symptoms, to determine whether any improvement had been made.
"I can get in and out of the bathtub," Charlie said. "I can take a shower by myself. My balance has come back. I can shampoo my hair without losing my balance."
Charlie's fingers were still curled, but he could straighten them a little more than before. He said he still had headaches. His ability to swallow had improved. "I eat steak every night," he said.
He had no pain in his legs, but some in his lower back. He no longer had difficulty breathing at night. He had regained the weight he had lost. His muscles, which had been shrinking, were coming back."
"Are you irritable?" Dr. Harvey asked.
"Sometimes I wake up in the morning and just want to get out of bed and run. And I get kind of angry."
"Are you depressed?"
"No."
"This is all good," Dr. Harvey said. "You're changing. I wish it were faster. It may be a longer journey than we thought it might be. We may be talking about a couple of years, or it could be that a sudden turn is just around the corner. We're getting somewhere with the disease. I think our course is the right one. You guys are fighters. I know you're going to gut it out."
Six months later, the slow improvement continues.
Charlie's chronic fatigue is gone. He can raise his arms above his head and lift his feet an inch or two off the floor. His shoulder muscles are filling out. He can rise from his wheelchair without help, and can stand erect, although sometimes a little wobbly. His speech is still slurred, but much clearer than it has been in years. His fingers are uncurling, slowly. He's beginning physical rehabilitation sessions in Comanche.
Still a struggle
While Charlie is improving, his illness has brought suffering to Rémy as well. She has lost weight. She's exhausted. Taking care of her husband and two rambunctious small children around the clock have worn her down.
Charlie has been unable to earn a paycheck for almost three years. The Social Security disability check on which his family lives can't stretch through the month. Bill collectors harass her.
"Rémy has been through a lot of responsibilities that a lot of people wouldn't take on," Charlie says. "She has held her head up through it all. I've learned to appreciate the little things. The one good thing that has come out of all this is the time I've been at home with my kids."
Rémy, 24, laughs. "He wouldn't have ever known that Little Charlie has to have strawberry milk and Kyra loves chocolate milk," she says.
Kyra is 3 now. Little Charlie is a strapping 19-month-old. "They keep my spirits up," Charlie says. "I ain't got time to feel bad. If none of this had happened, I'd probably still be driving that truck, and I wouldn't have near the bond I have with these kids now. This is something to be proud of."
So when Charlie goes to work again, he wants to come home at night. His voice fills with energy and a kind of joy w
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