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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005

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Interaction of silver nanoparticles with HIV-1

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dali - 14 Sep 2005 20:28 GMT
Abstract

The interaction of nanoparticles with biomolecules and microorganisms
is an expanding field of research. Within this field, an area that has
been largely unexplored is the interaction of metal nanoparticles with
viruses. In this work, we demonstrate that silver nanoparticles undergo
a size-dependent interaction with HIV-1, with nanoparticles exclusively
in the range of 1-10 nm attached to the virus. The regular spatial
arrangement of the attached nanoparticles, the center-to-center
distance between nanoparticles, and the fact that the exposed
sulfur-bearing residues of the glycoprotein knobs would be attractive
sites for nanoparticle interaction suggest that silver nanoparticles
interact with the HIV-1 virus via preferential binding to the gp120
glycoprotein knobs. Due to this interaction, silver nanoparticles
inhibit the virus from binding to host cells, as demonstrated in vitro.

http://www.jnanobiotechnology.com/content/3/1/6
David Wright - 15 Sep 2005 05:04 GMT
>Abstract
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>glycoprotein knobs. Due to this interaction, silver nanoparticles
>inhibit the virus from binding to host cells, as demonstrated in vitro.

Lots of things work in vitro.  Bleach works in vitro -- but drinking
it won't cure AIDS.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dali - 15 Sep 2005 06:07 GMT
>>Abstract
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Lots of things work in vitro.  Bleach works in vitro -- but drinking
>it won't cure AIDS.

I've already posted many in-vivo findings but here's another.

New Catheter-Electrode System Features Silver

By Samuel Etris, Senior Technical Consultant to The Silver Institute

A new catheter-electrode system, using a low-intensity current to push
bacteria and virus-fighting silver ions into the bloodstream, has been
patented by a Pennsylvania company.

The catheter combines a silver electrode inserted into the patient's
blood stream with a second electrode placed on the nearby skin. The
combined action releases silver ions into the blood for immediate
reaction with pathogens such as HIV viruses. The silver ions do not
attack normal human cells because these cells have protective walls,
which is not the case for bacteria, viruses and fungi.

Studies revealed in U.S. Patent, No. 6,066,489 - assigned to Arrow
International, Inc. of Reading, Pennsylvania - show improvement by HIV
patients treated with in-blood silver ions. One patient prior to
treatment had over two million copies of the HIV virus per milliliter
of blood and had an infection fighter cell (T4 cells) count of 18. The
patient was experiencing serious kidney malfunction. Within 24 hours
after silver ion treatment, the HIV virus count dropped to about one
million copies and T4 cells fell to 11. One month after treatment
began, the HIV virus count was again halved and the Patient's overall
health improved.

The catheter-electrode system is intended to be a universal aid in
treating blood-borne infections otherwise extremely difficult to treat
or cure once infection has begun. Blood-borne viruses can completely
overwhelm a patient, defeating the immune system and leading to death.

The catheter electrode is 97.8 percent silver, 2 percent Platinum, and
0.2 percent copper. The silver supplies the active silver ion;
platinum acts as a catalyst to aid in the release of the silver ions
and prevents a buildup of oxides on the electrode. Copper controls the
release rate of the silver from the electrode. The small amount of
silver introduced into the patient's bloodstream, and the extremely
low levels of current, are both highly effective and physiologically
safe.

Silver News - June / July 2001

http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html
   
killthebugg - 15 Sep 2005 08:40 GMT
how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?

> >>Abstract
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html
dali - 15 Sep 2005 15:38 GMT
> how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> >
> > http://www.silverinstitute.org/news/4b01.html

Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by
Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research. However, no patent
= no research
China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.
God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that
Rich - 15 Sep 2005 16:38 GMT
>> how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.
> God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that

I read recently that there is exactly zero research published in China
reporting negative results. It's a cultural thing. But it's not good
science.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

dali - 15 Sep 2005 23:37 GMT
>>> how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>reporting negative results. It's a cultural thing. But it's not good
>science.

Can't argue with that but the government is driving toward
erradicating disease. Why? for one SARS cost them over 70 billion
dollars. The stuff they are doing with silver and silver compounds is
quit amazing. America on the other hand has a billion/trillion? dollar
industry which feeds off disease.
Also if you think the NEJM is good science and bias free, i got a
bridge I'd like to sell ya.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:41 GMT
>>>>how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
> erradicating disease. Why? for one SARS cost them over 70 billion
> dollars.

$70 Billion? Care ot document that? AFAIAC, the Chinese consider SARS
just another means of population control.

http://www.buyusa.gov/china/en/sars11.html
http://www.buyusa.gov/china/en/sars13.html
http://www.gattiassociates.com/CM/ImportantDevelopments/ImportantDevelopments2745.asp

The stuff they are doing with silver and silver compounds is
> quit amazing. America on the other hand has a billion/trillion? dollar
> industry which feeds off disease.

> Also if you think the NEJM is good science and bias free, i got a
> bridge I'd like to sell ya.

Yes, they are biased in favor of fact based medicine. Far more so that
those critters selling useless crap.
Mark Probert - 15 Sep 2005 22:28 GMT
>>how many people have gotten this treatment for lyme disease?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by
> Colloidal silver.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

We desperately need more research. However, no patent
> = no research

WRONG, Kemo Sabe!

Money for research is available through NCCAM, where all the researchers
have got to guarantee is that the raw data and the results are public
records.

Oops...that must be what is scaring off Prof. Argentum, and Dr. Tonto.
If they find it is useless, then that would be bad for business.

Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth.

> China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.
> God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that

I see, so you think G-d will bless a country whee there is forced
abortion because they may research silver.

You sure are in a serious need of a reality check and a values
re-alignment.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 00:29 GMT
>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Oops...that must be what is scaring off Prof. Argentum, and Dr. Tonto.
>If they find it is useless, then that would be bad for business.

Your forgetting that silver is NOT a complimentary medicine. It is and
has always been an allopathic medicine.  

>Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth.

Nope I've been watching this. The little guys are being pushed aside.
Example: The FDA specifically ruled that silver gels and ointments
were banned because of "no proven benefits" (god i hate that term).
Yet here come curad with bandaids made of silver. Get the picture?

>> China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.
>> God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>You sure are in a serious need of a reality check and a values
>re-alignment.

What I think/see is that the only country preparing for that eventual
plague is China. God favors the prepared.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:51 GMT
>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Your forgetting that silver is NOT a complimentary medicine. It is and
> has always been an allopathic medicine.  

I am forgetting nothing. The criteria for qualifying for NCCAM grants is
whether the issue falls within previously established medical science,
or whether the use is outside of that.

For example...take cheatlation. It is a well established treatment for
certain types of heavy metal poisoning, thus bringing the procedure
within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for
treating atherosclerosis. If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since
they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing.

Here is some space for your next feeble attempt at proving you are wrong:

[] (try not to use all of it.)

>>Nope, do not research silver...it can be hazardous to their wealth.
>
> Nope I've been watching this. The little guys are being pushed aside.
> Example: The FDA specifically ruled that silver gels and ointments
> were banned because of "no proven benefits" (god i hate that term).
> Yet here come curad with bandaids made of silver. Get the picture?

Not at all. Does CURAD have any clinical proof of the efficacy of their
product? Are burn dressings made with a similar material? Perhaps the
gels and ointments are in a medium which renders them useless.

The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not
taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is
effective and gives the patient a benefit.

And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why
scam artists target the gullible.

>>>China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.
>>>God bless the communist-never thought I'd say that
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> What I think/see is that the only country preparing for that eventual
> plague is China. God favors the prepared.

Not really. Darwin favors the prepared.

As for preparing for the eventual plague, some countries are saying that
a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than cure.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 15:48 GMT
> >>The plural of anecdote is not data.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Here is some space for your next feeble attempt at proving you are wrong:

Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before
traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops)
therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study.
That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove
is that the NCCAM are ineffective.

> [] (try not to use all of it.)
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> product? Are burn dressings made with a similar material? Perhaps the
> gels and ointments are in a medium which renders them useless.

Curad states on it's package it kills a whole list of bacteria. How are
they capable of doing this yet the FDA states no one else can? Maybe
you can explain that one to me? Where you serious with that gel
comment? Hope not, read on.

> The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not
> taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is
> effective and gives the patient a benefit.
>
> And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why
> scam artists target the gullible.

Because "proven" in their minds could mean anything. It's a total waste
of words.

Speaking of gels look what I found. AND they didn't even go through the
NCCAM.
Perhaps you can explain to me how they accomplished this.

Topical Silver An Effective Defense Against MRSA Threat
14 Jul 2005
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AcryMed Inc, a medical device company specializing in wound care and
infection control technology, today released research findings that
show silver to be effective in combating MRSA topically, a potentially
deadly infection that is raising growing concern among the medical
community. MRSA (Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is a type
of germ dubbed a "super bug' due to its resistance against penicillin
and other common antibiotics.

According to a recent study conducted by the federal Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention, MRSA - an infection once confined to
the hospital environment, is now quickly spreading among the general
population. The CDC estimates that roughly 130,000 people are
hospitalized with MRSA each year. Improperly treated, MRSA - which can
be easily spread by casual contact via open cuts, rug burns and scrapes
- can quickly become a difficult to treat and potentially deadly
infection.

The current alarm over the spread of community MRSA is heightened by
the fact that the microbe is resistant to penicillin, methicillin and
most other antibiotics commonly used to treat infection. Some
clinicians within the medical community have expressed deep concern
that MRSA and other so-called "super bugs" can eventually become
uncontrollable.

The new study from AcryMed confirms earlier findings that silver is a
highly effective antimicrobial against MRSA and may be used topically
to prevent the spread of infection.

"The results of our laboratory testing show that the infection
fighting properties of silver is quite effective in killing the MRSA
strain," said Bruce Gibbins, founder and CTO of AcryMed. "Used in
medical dressings or in ointment form, silver can be an extremely
useful first defense in stopping MRSA before it develops into a
systemic infection. More over, due to the nature of antimicrobial
silver, it is highly unlikely that MRSA or other developing strains of
staph infections will ever build immunities to silver as they have to
penicillin and some topical antibiotics."

According to Gibbins, the use of topical silver antimicrobial products
in fighting infections also serves to reduce the over use of
antibiotics. This, in turn, can delay the growing immunity that these
bugs are quickly building against penicillin and other commonly used
antibiotics.

An Ancient Treatment

Silver has long been recognized for its infection-fighting properties.
In Ancient Greece and Rome, silver was used to fight infections and
control spoilage. In 1893, the botanist von Nageli discovered that
minute concentrations of silver contained microbiocidal properties.

Today, silver is commonly recognized by the medical community as a
valuable antimicrobial for treating wounds and burns. Recent
breakthroughs in ionic silver technology have produced new products
that make next-generation silver antimicrobials more effective and
easier to use than ever before. AcryMed, leaders in silver
antimicrobial technology has developed several patented products that
sustain the effective infection-fighting properties of silver from
several hours to up to seven days. AcryMed is the only company to make
a silver antimicrobial product that comes in a gel form. SilvaSorbÒ
Gel is easy to apply on all types of cuts and scrapes - making it
particularly effective as a first-line defense in fighting MRSA.

"With the recent spread of MRSA, people must take special precautions
and doctors need to consider antibiotic-resistant strains when treating
infections," said Gibbins. "By washing and applying a long-lasting
silver antimicrobial product to scrapes and cuts, people can stop MRSA
before they become serious infections."

SilvaSorb is distributed in the U.S. exclusively by Medline Industries.
The company manufactures and distributes more than 100,000 products to
hospitals, extended care facilities, surgery centers, home care dealers
and agencies and other markets. Medline can be contacted at
www.medline.com or (800) 633-5463.

AcryMed
http://www.acrymed.com

Since 1993, AcryMed has been at the forefront of breakthroughs in the
areas of wound care and infection prevention. The company's
technologies and products are currently licensed by distribution
partners and used today in hospitals, doctors' offices, and clinics
around the world. For more information on AcryMed, visit their website
at acrymed.com or call (503) 624-9830.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid'431

<snip rest due to check mate>
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:32 GMT
>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>>within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for
>>treating atherosclerosis.

ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal
poisoning, and not established for treating atherosclerosis.

If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
>>funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since
>>they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before
> traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops)

It is hard to forget about something that works.

> therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study.
> That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove
> is that the NCCAM are ineffective.

Wrong. Using my logic the NCCAM would fund a study, if the SilverShills
would apply for the money. Since there is NO EVIDENCE that they have,
then they, i.e., the SilverShils, recognize that their treatment is
dubious at best.

>>[] (try not to use all of it.)
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> you can explain that one to me? Where you serious with that gel
> comment? Hope not, read on.

Here is what Curad says:

Curad® Silver

Silver dressings are used regularly in the hospital setting to help
control infections in major wounds and burns. Now, consumers can use
silver for at-home first aid emergencies with the Curad® Silver Bandage
line. Curad® Silver Bandages use silver in the wound pad, which acts as
a natural antibacterial. Laboratory testing showed that silver reduced
bacterial growth like Staph. aureaus, E. coli, E. hirae and Pseudomonas
aeruginosa in the dressing for 24 hours.

>>The bottom line is that the sellers of the gels and ointments have not
>>taken that step, paid for by NCCAM, to show that their treatment is
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Because "proven" in their minds could mean anything. It's a total waste
> of words.

No, it is not. Altiemed alters the meaning of words to suit them.
Proven, however, means just that: clear reproducible evidence to support
the claim.

> Speaking of gels look what I found. AND they didn't even go through the
> NCCAM.
> Perhaps you can explain to me how they accomplished this.

They financed it themselves, or the CDC financed it. I raised NCCAm
because YOU claimed that there was no way to pay for the research. You
were wrong, but, in true JanDrewian mode, refuse to admit it.

> Topical Silver An Effective Defense Against MRSA Threat
> 14 Jul 2005
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> - can quickly become a difficult to treat and potentially deadly
> infection.

Uh-oh....the CDC financed it...since it came from the government, how
can you believe it?

> The current alarm over the spread of community MRSA is heightened by
> the fact that the microbe is resistant to penicillin, methicillin and
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> <snip rest due to check mate>

Are you comparing topic vs. ingested silver?
JohnDoe - 16 Sep 2005 18:56 GMT
>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Silver therapy was an established treatment for disease before

So was bloodletting at one time.

> traditional abx came around (and everyone forgot about it, ooops)
> therefore using your logic the NCCAM should be funding a study.
> That they are not does not prove silver ineffective. What it does prove
> is that the NCCAM are ineffective.

What it indicates is that the 'silver salesmen' are not interested in
research, cause they damn well know the result is going to be negative.

--snip--
dali - 16 Sep 2005 20:00 GMT
> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> --snip--

Uh, have you been reading the thread? Silver is alive and well in the
medical community. Doctors are presribing it. (mine did) and hospitals
are secretly experimenting with it. Everyone knows about it except I
guess the NCCAM.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:10 GMT
>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> medical community. Doctors are presribing it. (mine did) and hospitals
> are secretly experimenting with it.

Cannot be much of a secret if you know about it.

 Everyone knows about it except I
> guess the NCCAM.

That is because the SilverShills are afraid of NCCAM rules, regs and
standards (like publishing their findings, including the raw data).

Yes, the NCCAM is bad for their business.
Rich - 16 Sep 2005 15:48 GMT
>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> And, the fact that you hater the term "no proven benefit" is exactly why
> scam artists target the gullible.

Actually, Mark, silver is an efficacious treatment for partial and full
thickness burns.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/silversulf_ids.htm

--Rich
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:34 GMT
>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/silversulf_ids.htm

I am aware of that...recently had a tour of a trauma center's associated
burn unit (amazing what a donation can get you). However, does this
prove that ingested silver has a medicinal effect?

Nope.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT
> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> Nope.

Would you like to find out?
Rich - 16 Sep 2005 17:12 GMT
>> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>
> Would you like to find out?

Nope.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:04 GMT
>>> >>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
>Nope.

this is clearly a lunatic and/or pharmablogger answer.

At least Mark was smart enough not to say such a thing
Want to give your reasonings behind it?
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 17:15 GMT
>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> Would you like to find out?

Yes. Tell the sellers of this to apply to NCCAM for the appropriate
funding for a well designed study.

Just do not worry...I will not hold my breath until I turn blue waiting
for them to do it.
dali - 16 Sep 2005 17:37 GMT
> >>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
> >>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> Just do not worry...I will not hold my breath until I turn blue waiting
> for them to do it.

and this does not bother you in the least. interesting. (not really)
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:13 GMT
>>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> and this does not bother you in the least. interesting. (not really)

Oh, yes, it does bother me quite a bit. People promoting a substance
which can turn them permanently into

http://tinyurl.com/8zcvy

Yes, it does bother me that there are those people who prey on others by
claiming that a substance used for its topical antibiotic properties
will do the same if ingested.

Yes, dali, fraud does bother me.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:18 GMT
>>>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
>Yes, dali, fraud does bother me.

Well guess what bothers me.
Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR.
In other words we have plenty of guinea pigs to test silver on.
But we don't most likely due to GREED. The ignorance defense ran out.

I say why not experiment on these people whose death is assured if we
do not.

You say f.ck'em.

Yes Mark, greedocide tends to get on my nerves and those who defend it
most definitely have blood on their hands.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:23 GMT
>>>>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
> Well guess what bothers me.
> Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR.

It was but a metter of time before you brought out this old saw...when
you go into a hospital you are going in around sick people...infections
happen...they should be avoided...but they happen. However, there is NO
intent to cause them.

With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money.

You will not see the difference.

> In other words we have plenty of guinea pigs to test silver on.
> But we don't most likely due to GREED. The ignorance defense ran out.

Nope. Not at all. As Rich posted, there are silver based wound dressings
which are used.

However, do you know, and guessing is not allowed, how many of those
100,000 infections are the type where topical treatment would be effective?

You see, not all infections are topical. Further, how many of those
patients developed the infection prior to hospitalization and it was
first manifested while in the hospital?

> I say why not experiment on these people whose death is assured if we
> do not.

I say treat them with what is the best treatment that is available and
proven to be safe and effective.

> You say f.ck'em.

Nope.

> Yes Mark, greedocide tends to get on my nerves and those who defend it
> most definitely have blood on their hands.

Genocide is intentional and focused on specific national, racial,
political, or ethnic groups.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:20 GMT
<snip>

>> Well guess what bothers me.
>> Over 100,000 people die from hospital aquired infections PER YEAR.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>happen...they should be avoided...but they happen. However, there is NO
>intent to cause them.

I agree (on intent) but their poor hygeine practises drive it.
I can post some truly horrifying stories if you like?

>With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>However, do you know, and guessing is not allowed, how many of those
>100,000 infections are the type where topical treatment would be effective?

I agree, topical treatment on someone say with sepsis would be
useless. Heavy IV usage is required.

>You see, not all infections are topical. Further, how many of those
>patients developed the infection prior to hospitalization and it was
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I say treat them with what is the best treatment that is available and
>proven to be safe and effective.

Which is not working thus the over 100,000 deaths per year.
Are you happy with the status quo?
c'mon Mark they are going to die anyway, why not pump them full of
silver? I'm sure they would be much happier blue and alive than dead.
(in which case they will turn blue anyway.)

<snip>
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 22:46 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I agree (on intent) but their poor hygeine practises drive it.
> I can post some truly horrifying stories if you like?

I havce a share of my own from a new client where my field person
covertly photographed some really lousy practices.

>>With the SilverShills, there is clear intent to take the customers' money.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Which is not working thus the over 100,000 deaths per year.
> Are you happy with the status quo?

No. Fewer infections is the way to go. Better staff hygeine and
willingness to vigorously enforce rules regarding hygeine will go a long
way. Unfortunately, the infection rate will never equal zero.

> c'mon Mark they are going to die anyway, why not pump them full of
> silver? I'm sure they would be much happier blue and alive than dead.
> (in which case they will turn blue anyway.)

One of the patterns we have observed is a lack of aggressive infection
treatment with IV antibiotics. It seems that these studies are taking a
toll on MDs where they are not acknowledging that the patient developed
an infection in the hospital.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:21 GMT
>>> The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> within conventional medicine. It is an established procedure for
> treating atherosclerosis.

ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal
poisoning, and not established for treating atherosclerosis.

If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
> funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since
> they are, I am correct, and, thus, did not forget a single thing.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> As for preparing for the eventual plague, some countries are saying that
> a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than cure.
LadyLollipop - 17 Sep 2005 00:48 GMT
>>>> The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> ERROR: It is an established procedure for treating heavy metal poisoning,
> and not established for treating atherosclerosis.

ERROR:

It is spelled C h e l a t i o n.

http://www.integrative-med.com­/TOPICS/subtopics/Chelation_Th­­erapy.html

The Sacred Cow of Bypass Surgeryby James Biddle MD

Today's topic is perhaps the most controversial of all alternative
medicaltherapies - Chelation Therapy. What is it? The IV infusion of a
syntheticamino acid called EDTA that binds lead and other toxic metals,
pulling
them outof the body thru the urine.

Why is it so controversial? Because some physicians
also use it to treat vascular disease, or clogging of the arteries from
cholesterol plaques. Why do conventional physicians get so outraged
aboutChelation Therapy?

Because they think it doesn't work for vascular disease.To put this in
perspective, let's first look at the usual and customary treatments for
heart
disease, or clogging of the coronary arteries. The conservative approach is
to
give medicines like nitrates and beta-blockers todecrease the heart's demand
for oxygen, which lessens angina. The next approach is angioplasty, in which
a
catheter is used to balloon open thenarrowed part of the artery. The last
approach is coronary artery bypass grafting, in which segments of the
clogged
arteries are replaced surgically.These procedures can help decrease
symptoms,
but are they needed and do they improve survival?

A Harvard group of cardiologists published two studies in JAMA showing that
when patients are sent for bypass surgery or angioplasty, 75-80% were judged
not to require the procedure upon referral for second opinion. Then, in the
journal Circulation, there was no difference in survival between patients
randomized to have either  bypass surgery or conservative medical
treatment.Even worse, the Lancet showed that when patients were randomized
to
have either angioplasty or conservative medical treatment, the angioplasty
group actually had more heart attacks and deaths (6.3%) than the medical
group
(3.3%).

Therefore, the published data show that these invasive and expensive
procedures
are 75-80% unjustified and do not improve survival overall.

***On the other hand, studies published in the Journal of Advancement in
Medicine show that of 22,765 vascular patients treated with IV Chelation
Therapy, 87% had objectively-measured improvements. In addition, 30 patients
with narrowing of the carotid artery had an average of 30% improvement by
ultrasound after 30 treatments of EDTA. But my favorite study is from
Denmark,
where they gave IV Chelation Therapy to vascular patients who were already
on
the waiting list for either bypass surgery or leg amputation. Using IV EDTA,
58
of 65 bypass patients and 24 of 27 amputation patients were able to cancel
their surgeriesand walk away.****

With such remarkable data, why is Chelation Therapy not given
moreconsideration? I believe the main culprits are publication bias and
paradigm boxes.

****You see, the Journal of Advancement in Medicine is not listed in the
National Library of Medicine, so the "powers that be" will not consider the
data.****

***However, all the journals that are listed have refused to publish any
positive studies concerning Chelation Therapy, while they are happy to
publish
negative studies.****

That's publication bias. A paradigm box is the limitation of our ability to
consider a concept or option outside of our current knowledge and training.
Physicians truly have the best interests of their patients at heart, but

***they've been fundamentally trained to reject Chelation Therapy,***

***so are generally unwilling or unable to take an honest look at the
data.***

***Unfortunately, their paradigm box has been constructed by the huge
pharmaceutical giants, who are the sole advertisers of every medical journal
listed in the National Library of Medicine.***

I dare to say that they have a vested financial interest in suppressing
knowledge of a relatively inexpensive, non-invasive, and non-toxic
alternative
for treating vascular disease.

****I've seen scores of vascular patients improve dramatically with
ChelationTherapy.***

Just as in the studies above,

****I've seen about 80% respond favorably,***

which makes me think that probably 20% of patients actually will benefit
from
angioplasty or bypass surgery. Maybe if we limit these procedures to those
who
first fail a trial of Chelation Therapy, we actually can improve survival
and
also save Medicare from bankruptcy.

tp://www.drcranton.com/chelation/ca­rter.htm

Both the CCHI and the National Council on Health Fraud purport to be
scientific
and authoritative sources of information. A significant portion of their
activities, however, have nothing to do with real quackery, but are rather a
means to coerce practitioners of medicine to adhere to practices approved by
medical politicians. The end result is to preserve certain monopolistic and
economic advantages enjoyed by organized medicine.

An important reason that research into the use of EDTA in the treatment of
atherosclerosis and its complications stopped after 1960, until the mid
1980s,was because of an

*** active and vicious campaign of misinformation and unjust harassment of
physicians who used EDTA in their practices. Scientific researchers who
showed
an interest were also discouraged and harassed.***

http://www.chelationtherapyonl­ine.com/articles/p182.htm#quac­­k

Here is the photo of the man behind the web
sitehttp://www.quackwatch.com/inde­x.html.  He often attacks various health
products and practices by making false claims about them, as if those claims
came FROM them, and then knocks down these straw men of his own device.

****One of the most ***evil*** people on the web is a former psychiatrist
who
lashes out against just about every possible alternative health product or
practice.  It is, in fact, a hall of fame.  If you are mentioned in his
pages
you can assume you are doing a good job! He attacks chelation therapy, of
course, but he selects a "straw man" to attack.  In other words, the early
explanation of how chelation therapy works is well proven to be false, event
hough many people are still repeating those lies.  But, the more thoughtful
intravenous doctors have discarded this early theory and gone on to the
second
theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found
effective
in chelating and removing toxic metals from the blood, some scientists
postulated that hardened arteries could be softened ifthe calcium in their
walls was removed. The first indication that EDTA treatment might benefit
patients with atherosclerosis came from Clarke, Clarke,and Mosher, who, in
1956, reported that patients with occlusive peripheralvascular disease said
they felt better after treatment with EDTA [AmericanJournal of Medical
Science
230:654-666, 1956].  (Source)

http://drcranton.com/chelation­/rebuttal.htm

BUSTING THE QUACKBUSTERS
REBUTTAL TO "QUACKWATCH" WEBSITE OPPOSING CHELATION THERAPY:

By Elmer M. Cranton, M.D.

There exist a number of self-styled medical thought-police types who call
themselves "quack busters."  They  are fond of attacking alternative and
emerging medical therapies in favor of the existing medical monopoly.  They
even have their own Quackwatch Internet website. It is uncertain where the
money comes from to fund those efforts, but it might be enlightening to
trace
that money back to its original source. One investigator alleges that
funding
comes from pharmaceutical manufacturers.

For years these so-called quackbusters have  attacked nutritional
supplementation with high potency multi-vitamins as "quackery."  As
summarized
elsewhere on this website (Nutrition In The News), recent scientific studies
now prove that virtually anyone can benefit from nutritional
supplementation.
With egg on their faces from this recent vitamin research, those same
critics
continue to attack chelation therapy.  I will now answer, point by point, an
article on the Quackwatch website by Dr. Saul Green entitled "CHELATION
THERAPY: UNPROVEN CLAIMS AND UNSOUND THEORIES," in which Dr. Green  attempts
to
discredit EDTA chelation using half-truths, speculation, and false
statements.

ALSO
Click Here to read:

A MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR BUSTS THE QUACKBUSTERS

Opponents and critics of EDTA chelation, such as Saul Green, rarely state
that
chelation "does not work" or that chelation is "proven not to work." Instead
they merely state that it is "unproven." They are evasive and set a double
standard. Bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and close to 80% of all other
therapies routinely used by medical doctors in everyday practice are also
"unproven," using those same unreasonable standards. Most widely-accepted
and
traditional medical therapies have never been subjected to double-blind,
placebo controlled clinical trials costing many millions of dollars?as
demanded
by opponents of chelation therapy.

Detractors of chelation therapy insist that large, multimillion-dollar
studies
be performed, giving half the patients a placebo, with the placebo group
"blinded"?unknown to the investigators until the study is complete (called
"double-blind" because neither the doctors nor the patients know who gets
the
placebo and who gets the active medication). Drug companies are required by
the
FDA to test new prescription drugs in this manner before they can make
marketing claims. On the other hand, bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and
most other widely accepted medical procedures have never been subjected to
that
type of testing.  Because patent protection has long since expired on EDTA,
there is no source of funding for such a study.  N.I.H., the government
source
for research money, has repeatedly refused to fund a research grant to study
EDTA chelation.

Saul Green makes an issue of an FTC ruling in 1998 relating to advertising
for
EDTA chelation therapy. Because the FDA has not yet approved EDTA chelation
therapy for treatment of atherosclerosis, the FTC ruled that it is not
proper
to imply otherwise in advertisements to the lay public. The informed consent
provided to patients by chelation doctors has always made that fact clear,
but
once again politically powerful critics of chelation therapy have generated
adverse publicity, using what was essentially a non-issue. That FTC ruling
was
based partly on their opinion that professional physicians associations,
such
as the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), should not
advertise directly to the lay public. The FTC ruling does not apply to the
doctor patient relationship. Training courses on chelation therapy continue
to
be given to practicing physicians twice yearly by ACAM.

Drug companies quickly patent their newly developed remedies, which allows
them
to charge high prices (usually a dollar or more per capsule, sometimes much
more) to recapture their millions of dollars in expenses for the
FDA-required
double blind studies. EDTA is a generic drug. Patent protection expired many
years ago. Double-blind placebo studies of adequate size have therefore
never
been funded and probably will not be funded in the future unless N.I.H. or a
private foundation can be convinced to do so with either public or
philanthropic funds. (In 2002 a $30 million research proposal for a
multi-center study of EDTA chelation therapy is under consideration by
N.I.H.
Let's all hope that it gets funded.)

Many highly positive smaller studies have been published proving EDTA
chelation
therapy, reporting objective measurements of before and after improvements.
Statistical analyses of those improvements are highly significant. Summaries
of
those studies can be read on the following webpage: Chelation Research. A
chapter from my recent book, Bypassing Bypass Surgery, summarizes the vast
amount of research supporting EDTA chelation therapy.

Those studies that support EDTA chelation are good science and are
scientifically valid. Only if it is assumed that placebo effect could cause
long-term, sustained increases in objective blood flow measurements to the
brain, heart and extremities through diseased arteries can those studies be
ignored. Placebo effect has never been observed to last more than 6 months.
Benefit from chelation therapy comes on slowly; increasing for 3 to 5 months
after treatment is complete and persisting for years after a course of
therapy.
Placebo benefit has never acted that way.

Saul Green's quackbuster attack on chelation therapy states that those
published studies are poorly designed and therefore meaningless. I challenge
any educated lay reader to review those studies and not be impressed. It
always
desirable to have bigger and better studies. There is always room for
improvement. That same statement could be made about any study ever
published.
All of the existing clinical data is positive and highly significant on
statistical analysis. Independent researchers, at different research
facilities, using different technology, were able to duplicate the positive
findings of increased blood flow through blocked arteries. Statistical
analysis
continues to show consistent high significance.

The bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty industries gross upwards of $6
billion per year. The cardiovascular drug industry takes in upwards of $100
billion dollars per year. If the existing studies of chelation therapy were
to
be accepted as valid, those industries would suffer enormous losses. They
have
no reason to want to see chelation therapy accepted.

In recent years opponents of chelation have published several a number of
small
sham studies, falsely alleging that EDTA chelation does not work. In every
instance those studies were actually supportive of EDTA chelation therapy,
but
they contained an erroneous conclusion otherwise. Click here for an analysis
of
deceptive studies. The recent PATCH study in Calgary, Canada, is a truly
blatant example of that practice. That kind of junk science proves nothing,
and
the studies cited actually contain evidence to support EDTA chelation
therapy.
Nonetheless, they  are quickly published in mainstream medical journals,
interspersed with full-page, four-color advertisements for new and expensive
pharmaceutical drugs. The news media then prominently print articles stating
that EDTA chelation therapy has been proven not to work.

A wise consumer will review all existing sources of information and then
make
up his or her own mind about what is best. A Ford salesman will most likely
tell you that a Ford is superior to a Chevrolet and vice versa. Consumers
should be allowed to decide what feels right for them, without being
subjected
to a "time-bomb-in-chest" hard-sell, with a high-pressure, frightening sales
pitch at a time when they are highly vulnerable. Treadmills and angiograms
are
very effective and can be frightening marketing tools leading to expensive,
dangerous and often unnecessary therapies.

Mark Twain once said that, "If the only tool you have is a hammer,
everything
looks like a nail." A similar statement could be made about cardiologists,
whose only tool is a catheter with balloon attached, or surgeons with their
scalpels. The same might also be said of a chelation therapist. Buyer
beware!
Be an informed consumer. Every therapist has their own bias.

Saul Green writes that the Kitchell, Meltzer reappraisal study in 1963
showed
no significant benefit. I have described their exact data on the following
webpage: Chelation Critics Deceive the Public.  You decide for yourself if
you
think it shows significant benefit or not.  For political, economic and
other
unknown reasons, researchers occasionally interpret their data in a way that
fits their personal prejudices, either positive or negative.  When an
unbiased,
objective appraisal is made of that same data, the opposite conclusion can
sometimes be supported. That has happened repeatedly with chelation therapy.
The facts are presented (Chelation Critics Deceive the Public) to enable
readers to form their own opinions.

Saul Green states that chelation is "not recognized by the scientific
community." That is not true unless it is assumed that the many highly
trained
physicians who administer chelation therapy are not scientific.  He engages
in
name-calling.  Doctors who disagree with Saul Green are called unscientific.
Various segments of the medical community join together in professional
associations with the goal of protecting their turf and maintaining a
monopoly
in their field as much as possible.  It is not justified for one such group
to
state that other medical scientists who disagree are "unscientific."  This
merely represents a disagreement between experts, between differing factions
of
the medical profession-a common occurrence in any profession.  Emerging,
complimentary and alternative therapies often confront that type of bias.

Saul Green writes that at least fifteen different reports document that EDTA
did not benefit patients. That is not true!  For the most part, he cites
letters to the editor, which report an occasional treatment failure.  No
therapy is 100% effective and treatment failures do occur with EDTA.
However,
more than 85% of patients have been helped.  These anecdotal reports of
treatment failures are used by critics, but anecdotal reports of treatment
success are rejected by critics. This represents more evidence of the double
standard. Saul Green also misrepresents the the unscientific studies
previously
mentioned as documenting that EDTA chelation does not work, Chelation
Critics
Deceive the Public.

Arteriograms before and after treatment are demanded by critics to prove
benefit from chelation therapy.  It is not possible, however, to accurately
measure decreases in atherosclerotic plaque unless the diameter of the
artery
is increased by approximately 25%.  In the presence of turbulent blood flow
past plaques, it requires only a 10% increase in arterial diameter to double
the flow of blood (Poiseuille's Law of hemodynamics as can be found in any
textbook of medical physiology or biophysics). As proven in studies,
arteriograms and ultrasound are not sensitive enough to consistently measure
changes of less than 25% in the diameter of a blood vessel. Increases much
less
than that can greatly relieve or totally eliminate symptoms, and are not
detectable on arteriograms.  Studies which measure heart and organ function
and
total blood flow consistently prove that EDTA chelation therapy is highly
beneficial.

If patients improve their physical endurance, if exercise tolerance
increases
and if symptoms improve, that provides good scientific evidence of benefit.
If
measurements of walking distance on a treadmill with an uphill incline
consistently increase after treatment and with statistical significance,
that
is valid scientific proof of benefit.  Angiograms are not sensitive enough
to
measure even a doubling in blood flow.  Angiograms are marketing tools
frequently used to justify bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty; however,
angiograms cannot show increases in arterial diameter that can increase
blood
flow by 200% or more. They do, however, show the surgeons where to cut and
are
necessary to place a balloon or stent in angioplasty. And sometimes those
procedures are necessary.

Saul Green is in error when he states that the Curt Diehm study in Germany
did
not show benefit.  The raw data from that study has been analyzed by medical
school professors in the United States and found to be highly positive, as
documented in detail on the following webpage: Critique of the Heidelberg
Study.   Patients who received EDTA increased their walking distance by an
average of 400%, compared to 60% increase in the control group patients, who
received an active drug, not a placebo. The manufacturer of the control drug
funded the study and reserved the right to manipulate and report the data in
their own way.  Patients who responded best were eliminated from the final
data. Final results were measured immediately,  3 months before full
improvement from EDTA could be expected.  Analysis of raw data from that
study
proves that EDTA chelation therapy was highly effective in treating arterial
blockage in the legs.

The adverse side effects described by Saul Green were reported many years
ago
when massive doses of EDTA were infused in a very short time.  Any medicine
given in overdose can cause harm.  There are no documented reports of harm
when
EDTA has been administered using the currently approved protocol. In rare
reports of adverse side-effects, the current protocol was not followed.
Even
when administered improperly, 10 deaths in a million patients indicates that
chelation is infinitely safer than surgery or balloon angioplasty, which
result
in death from complications in approximately 3 out of every hundred patients
treated.

Fifty thousand people die in automobile accidents every year and another
200,000 are seriously injured.  I tell my patients that the drive to the
clinic
in an automobile to get chelation therapy is statistically far more
dangerous
that the chelation they receive after they arrive. More than 8,000 deaths
and
200,000 hospitalizations each year result from complications of ibuprofen,
naproxen, aspirin and other widely accepted pain remedies, many of which are
available without prescription.  EDTA chelation therapy is infinitely safer
than even those treatments. Critics of chelation therapy never put things in
proper perspective.

Saul Green goes on to speculate about a number of theoretical reasons why
chelation therapy might possibly be dangerous.  He completely ignores the
amazing safety record of a million patients who have received the therapy.
The
dangers of surgery and angioplasty are well proven, not just
theoretical?three
percent death rate and twenty percent or more serious but non-fatal
complications.  It is not necessary to merely speculate why invasive
procedures
might possibly cause harm.  Saul Green's statements about why chelation
might
be dangerous have not been supported by more than 40 years of experience.

The Danish study mentioned by Saul Green was misrepresented and proved
nothing.
It was actually a positive study and showed benefit from chelation therapy.

Saul Green states that the FDA once had EDTA chelation on their list of
"Health
Care Frauds."  The FDA has long since removed chelation therapy from that
list,
and for good reason.  Why did they do that?

In my opinion, it is a beneficial and highly cost effective therapy.

BE SURE TO READ:

If EDTA Chelation Therapy is so Good, Why Is It Not More Widely Accepted?
by
Dr. James P. Carter, MD, DrPH

A Professor of Cardiology Critiques Bypass Surgery.

Chelation Critics Deceive the Public by Elmer M. Cranton, MD

ttp://www.life-enhancement.com/artic­le_template.asp?ID=166

PATIENTS CANCEL BYPASS SURGERIES AFTER EDTA TREATMENTS
It is common place for physicians to help heart disease patients who have
failed all the standard treatments to make remarkable - even unbelievable -
recoveries, once given EDTA. Many patients on waiting lists for bypass
surgery
have found, after a series of EDTA chelation treatments, that they did not
need
the surgery. One particular study found that when 65 patients who had been
on
the waiting list for bypass surgery for an average of six months were
treated
with EDTA, the symptoms in 89% of them improved so much that they canceled
their surgery.3

http://www.healingdaily.com/or­al-chelation/oral-edta-chelati­­on.htm

EDTA removes toxic metals from the blood. Studies have shown that as people
age
they continuously accumulate toxic metals: lead, mercury, aluminum, iron,
cadmium, and arsenic, among others. The accrual of these toxins invites an
increased risk for various diseases, especially heart disease. The less of
these metals we have in our bodies, the more likely we are to be
physiologically healthy or simply feel good, and the lower our risk for
heart
disease. Because EDTA is so effective at removing unwanted metals and other
minerals from the blood, it has been the standard, FDA-approved treatment
for
lead, mercury, aluminum, and cadmium poisoning for more than 50 years. EDTA
normalizes the distribution of most metallic elements in the body.

> If you were correct, the NCCAM would not be
>> funding a major study of cheatlation for treating atherosclerosis. Since
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>> a vaccine for SARS will forestall that. Prevention is worth more than
>> cure.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:25 GMT
>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> It is spelled C h e l a t i o n.

I spell it CHEATlation because it cheats people out of their lives.
LadyLollipop - 17 Sep 2005 05:28 GMT
>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> I spell it CHEATlation because it cheats people out of their lives.

Not only do you spell it wrong, you lie, as usually.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 22:47 GMT
>>>>>>>The plural of anecdote is not data.
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Not only do you spell it wrong, you lie, as usually.

Nope. It cheated a 5 year old boy.....
David Wright - 16 Sep 2005 03:19 GMT
>Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by
>Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research.

What you desperately need is something better than unverified
anecdotes.

>However, no patent = no research

You obviously are unaware of the research going on with, e.g,
aspirin.

>China doesn't have this problem so look to them for further research.

And whatever they publish will be positive.  How wonderful.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
cathyb - 16 Sep 2005 12:00 GMT
> >Many annecdotal reports are coming in of people cured of Lyme by
> >Colloidal silver. We desperately need more research.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> And whatever they publish will be positive.  How wonderful.

Indeed. A study done by researchers for the Research Council for
Complementary Medicine found that "No trial published in China or
Russia/USSR found a test treatment to be ineffective".

Even they were slightly concerned; the abstract is at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=9551280&query_hl=9


(PMID: 9551280)

Cathy

>   -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>      These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>      "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>                                  -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:31 GMT
>Indeed. A study done by researchers for the Research Council for
>Complementary Medicine found that "No trial published in China or
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Cathy

Interesting. This is how it works in america.

If corporations want a profit-saving research result they will design
the research and find the fool to do it ...regardless of the facts or
catastrophic consequences. See study - corporations qualify as
psychopaths.

Here is one example.

The study was designed to provide patients with “intensive
antibiotics.” Although one month of ceftriaxone and two months of
doxycycline would be considered intensive for the treatment of many
acute infectious diseases, few physicians who shoulder the
responsibility of treating chronic Lyme disease would consider this to
be an adequate retreatment for a patient with late-stage Lyme disease
who had failed prior courses of significant treatment.

http://www.canlyme.com/klempbrans.html
David Wright - 16 Sep 2005 03:18 GMT
>>>Abstract
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>bacteria and virus-fighting silver ions into the bloodstream, has been
>patented by a Pennsylvania company.

<snip>

>Silver News - June / July 2001

2001.  Four years ago.  Who's using this system now?  Plenty of time
to get the word out by this point.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
dali - 16 Sep 2005 10:40 GMT
>>>>Abstract
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>2001.  Four years ago.  Who's using this system now?  Plenty of time
>to get the word out by this point.

Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 14:52 GMT
>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it.

A patent proves nothing of medical value.
JohnDoe - 16 Sep 2005 18:52 GMT
>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>
>>>>>The interaction of nanoparticles with biomolecules and microorganisms
>>>>>is an expanding field of research. Within this field, an area that has

-snip-

>>>Silver News - June / July 2001
>>
>>2001.  Four years ago.  Who's using this system now?  Plenty of time
>>to get the word out by this point.
>
> Speaks volumes about our free and open press doesn't it.

So the press decides what things doctors do and do not use? I see.....
dali - 16 Sep 2005 19:19 GMT
> >>>>>Abstract
> >>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> So the press decides what things doctors do and do not use? I see.....

The number of corporations controlling most of Americas daily
newspapers, magazines, radio and television stations, book publishers,
and movie companies is five. Thats right 5.
one thing they do not want to do is offend the powerful, especially if
it is they who are providing the ads $.

Make no mistake, cencorship is a reality.
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 22:27 GMT
>>>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Make no mistake, cencorship is a reality.

I just love whacko conspiracy crap.
dali - 17 Sep 2005 00:37 GMT
>>>>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>I just love whacko conspiracy crap.

Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?
It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada?
Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS?
I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece.
Maybe thats just me.
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT
>>>>>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?

They figure that their audience is a bunch of uneducated half-wits and
run the story. I guess they put it right next to the stories about the
four legged little green men and the boy who was born with six heads.

> It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada?

Actually, it is the smallest story of the millenia.

> Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS?

Because they are incurable? Yes, that must be it.

> I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece.
> Maybe thats just me.

Yes, it is just you, since you think that fiction writing is a
substitute for scientific inquiry.
Peter Bowditch - 17 Sep 2005 01:47 GMT
>Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?

For the same reason that it is often the only paper to run stories
about alien abductions and UFO sightings?

>It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada?

What is the second-biggest story?

>Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS?

Because nobody has been cured of ALS or MS, so there are no stories to
write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that
cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.)

>I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece.

It certainly would be, as would the Nobel Prize acceptance speech of
the person who did it.

>Maybe thats just me.
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:41 GMT
>>Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that
>cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.)

Cures of ALS and MS are common knowledge with Lyme literate doctors.

Here is a newspaper article of one ALS patient.
One would think the associated press would pick up on this story

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e.5e780553.html

Stronger Every Day
With an iron will and an unconventional new treatment, Charlies Smith
is going toe-to-toe with ALS

06:26 PM CDT on Saturday, April 30, 2005

By BRYAN WOOLLEY / The Dalles Morning News

MULLIN, Texas – Charlie Smith is thinking about what he might do with
the rest of his life.

"I don't want to go back to trucking," he says. "I want to be home
every night to see my babies."

There are ranches for troubled boys in the Central Texas hills where
Charlie lives. Maybe he could work at one of those, he says, or some
place like them. Maybe he could be some kind of counselor.

"I'd like to tell those kids my story and what I've been through," he
says. "Maybe I could help somebody who's wanting to give up."

Talking about the future is a strange new thing for Charlie. He wasn't
supposed to have one.

In December 2002, doctors at the University of Texas Southwestern
Medical Center at Dallas told him he might have amyotrophic lateral
sclerosis (ALS), often called Lou Gehrig's disease. It weakens the
body's muscles and then paralyzes them. It kills its victim, sometimes
slowly, sometimes quickly, but always. In June 2003, the doctors
reported that the diagnosis "has been confirmed."

ALS usually strikes people who are 50 or older. Charlie was only 25.
The Dallas doctors said that he was the youngest ALS victim they had
ever diagnosed and that young ALS victims usually die faster than
older ones. The doctors predicted three to six months for Charlie,
maybe a year.

"To tell somebody they have only so long to live, that really knocks a
person's spirits down," Charlie says now.

Charlie first told his story to The Dallas Morning News in January
2004. He and his friends talked about what he used to be: the star of
Mullin High School's six-man football team, its homecoming king, its
Christmas prince, 6-foot-4 and handsome, strong-bodied and
strong-willed, the leader among the little town's young men.

He and his wife, Rémy, had a 2-year-old daughter, Kyra, and
9-month-old Charlie Jr. Before his illness, Charlie drove a
tractor-trailer rig, hauling stone from Mullin to home builders and
landscapers in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. He was on the road
nearly all the time.

His calamity began one spring day in 2002 when he stepped out of his
rig, lost his balance and fell on his back. His truck driver friends
laughed, but the fall was the first symptom of his illness. It
signaled the horrible change that was about to happen to Charlie.

At the time of the 2004 interview, Charlie had outlived the doctors'
expectations, but he was sinking. His muscles were shrinking. His
speech was slow and slurred. His fingers were stiff and curled. He had
trouble breathing and swallowing.

Rémy dreaded driving the 30 miles to Comanche to buy groceries. She
feared what she might face when she got home. "I was scared to death
that I was going to be the one to ... you know ..."

To find Charlie dead.

Rémy thought of calling a hospice to help him through. Charlie was
angry and defiant and stubborn, and sometimes depressed. He vowed
that, despite the impossible odds and the doctors' expectations, he
would recover.

Many Morning News readers were moved by Charlie's courage. Their
interest led to the establishment of a medical fund for him,
administered through a church in nearby Comanche. They contributed
$16,000.

A reader phoned the Smiths and told them of Dr. William T. Harvey in
Houston, who was treating her husband and other patients for symptoms
like Charlie's and seemed to be having some success.

Charlie and Rémy made an appointment and drove to Houston, three hours
from Mullin, to meet the doctor.

Charlie says, "It was like a big weight was lifted off of us when Dr.
Harvey said, 'Well, we can help you.' Before that, we had no chance.
Before that, we were running down a one-way track."

The doctor

Dr. Harvey is 67 years old, a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a
retired NASA aerospace physician. During his 23-year career as an Air
Force officer, he served as a biomedical engineer and a flight
surgeon, and later in clinical aerospace medicine and in space
medicine research at the U.S. Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine.
After his retirement, he managed medical facilities for NASA and for a
Department of Energy nuclear facility and for Lockheed.

His résumé says he's a clinician in general medicine, but all the
nearly 900 patients he says he has treated in the past four or five
years have had symptoms similar to Charlie's.

His board certifications are in aerospace medicine, not internal
medicine or epidemiology. But in space medicine, he says, NASA
physicians weren't able to depend on medical books, because the books
they needed hadn't been written yet. Now he's working without books
again, he says, because what he's doing is new.

His theory is outside the mainstream of standard diagnosis and
treatment. Briefly and simplistically stated, it's this: Many patients
who are diagnosed with ALS, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, chronic
Lyme disease, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and other motor
neuron diseases actually are victims of a bacteriological infection
that can be cured or at least alleviated with massive doses of certain
antibiotics.

The bacillus is Borrelia burgdorferi. Dr. Harvey says it's present in
the blood of millions of people around the world, often from birth.
It's relatively harmless, he says, until something triggers it to
attack the nerves that activate the muscles.

Its presence in the blood can't be detected by the standard tests that
most labs and hospitals use. According to Dr. Harvey, only two labs in
the U.S. – one in Florida and one in California – are equipped to find
and identify it.

He hasn't done clinical trials to test his theories, nor has he been
published in peer-reviewed medical journals. Many doctors are
skeptical that bacteria could be the cause of a motor neuron disease.

After the California lab discovered Borrelia burgdorferi in Charlie's
blood, Dr. Harvey prescribed massive doses of antibiotics, some taken
orally, some administered intravenously through a catheter in
Charlie's chest.

Dr. Harvey has seen Charlie three times since his initial visit. He
keeps in touch with the Smiths mostly by phone.

Charting progress

During the second office visit, last September, Dr. Harvey walked
Charlie through all his symptoms, to determine whether any improvement
had been made.

"I can get in and out of the bathtub," Charlie said. "I can take a
shower by myself. My balance has come back. I can shampoo my hair
without losing my balance."

Charlie's fingers were still curled, but he could straighten them a
little more than before. He said he still had headaches. His ability
to swallow had improved. "I eat steak every night," he said.

He had no pain in his legs, but some in his lower back. He no longer
had difficulty breathing at night. He had regained the weight he had
lost. His muscles, which had been shrinking, were coming back."

"Are you irritable?" Dr. Harvey asked.

"Sometimes I wake up in the morning and just want to get out of bed
and run. And I get kind of angry."

"Are you depressed?"

"No."

"This is all good," Dr. Harvey said. "You're changing. I wish it were
faster. It may be a longer journey than we thought it might be. We may
be talking about a couple of years, or it could be that a sudden turn
is just around the corner. We're getting somewhere with the disease. I
think our course is the right one. You guys are fighters. I know
you're going to gut it out."

Six months later, the slow improvement continues.

Charlie's chronic fatigue is gone. He can raise his arms above his
head and lift his feet an inch or two off the floor. His shoulder
muscles are filling out. He can rise from his wheelchair without help,
and can stand erect, although sometimes a little wobbly. His speech is
still slurred, but much clearer than it has been in years. His fingers
are uncurling, slowly. He's beginning physical rehabilitation sessions
in Comanche.

Still a struggle

While Charlie is improving, his illness has brought suffering to Rémy
as well. She has lost weight. She's exhausted. Taking care of her
husband and two rambunctious small children around the clock have worn
her down.

Charlie has been unable to earn a paycheck for almost three years. The
Social Security disability check on which his family lives can't
stretch through the month. Bill collectors harass her.

"Rémy has been through a lot of responsibilities that a lot of people
wouldn't take on," Charlie says. "She has held her head up through it
all. I've learned to appreciate the little things. The one good thing
that has come out of all this is the time I've been at home with my
kids."

Rémy, 24, laughs. "He wouldn't have ever known that Little Charlie has
to have strawberry milk and Kyra loves chocolate milk," she says.

Kyra is 3 now. Little Charlie is a strapping 19-month-old. "They keep
my spirits up," Charlie says. "I ain't got time to feel bad. If none
of this had happened, I'd probably still be driving that truck, and I
wouldn't have near the bond I have with these kids now. This is
something to be proud of."

So when Charlie goes to work again, he wants to come home at night.
His voice fills with energy and a kind of joy when he talks about that
future day.

"At one time," he says, "I thought I was gone, that I was going away.
But I'm not going nowhere no time."

Rémy's voice trembles. "The other day, I looked at him and I could see
Charlie again."
dali - 17 Sep 2005 02:43 GMT
>Because nobody has been cured of ALS or MS, so there are no stories to
>write. (By the way, alties like to deceive themselves and others that
>cheatlation cures ALS and MS, not eating heavy metals.)

Just to add it's not just Lyme capable of these diseases.

Evidence of Retrovirus in Blood of ALS Patients
Roberta Friedman, PhD, ALSA Research Department Information
Coordinator

March 2, 2005

[QUICK SUMMARY: Footprints of Retrovirus Found in ALS Patient Samples
Leaves Researchers Unsure of Role of Retrovirus in the Disease]

Researchers reported in Neurology this month that blood samples
collected from patients with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)
contain evidence of a retroviral enzyme more often than samples from
controls without the disease. The genes for the enzyme, reverse
transcriptase, could be carried silently in the human genome, or the
virus might be associated with ALS.

http://www.alsa.org/news/article.cfm?id=610&CFID=1122835&CFTOKEN=65814433
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 23:18 GMT
>>Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> What is the second-biggest story?

Dali getting a clue.
JohnDoe - 19 Sep 2005 08:03 GMT
>>>>>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Then why is the enquirer the only mag to run a story on silver?

Is that the enquirer that brings us stories like 'woman grows diamonds
on her toenails'? 'Britney Spears involved in satanic conspiracy'? That
enquirer?

> It's the biggest story of the century, yet nada?

So the conspiracy folks are capable of controlling the entire
international scientific community, not to mention plenty patient
organizations, but an insignificant little magazine escapes them. I see...

> Why is there no stories of people being cured of ALS and MS?

Because there aren't any?

> I would think THAT would be a fairly interesting piece.
> Maybe thats just me.

No, it's not just you. Everybody would be interested in that, if only it
were true.
dali - 19 Sep 2005 21:44 GMT
>>>>>>>>>>Abstract
>>>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>No, it's not just you. Everybody would be interested in that, if only it
>were true.

Just look above in the thread. Here I'll post again.

Cures of ALS and MS are common knowledge with Lyme literate doctors.

Here is a newspaper article of one ALS patient.
One would think the associated press would pick up on this story

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e.5e780553.html

Stronger Every Day
With an iron will and an unconventional new treatment, Charlies Smith
is going toe-to-toe with ALS

06:26 PM CDT on Saturday, April 30, 2005

By BRYAN WOOLLEY / The Dalles Morning News

MULLIN, Texas – Charlie Smith is thinking about what he might do with
the rest of his life.

"I don't want to go back to trucking," he says. "I want to be home
every night to see my babies."

There are ranches for troubled boys in the Central Texas hills where
Charlie lives. Maybe he could work at one of those, he says, or some
place like them. Maybe he could be some kind of counselor.

"I'd like to tell those kids my story and what I've been through," he
says. "Maybe I could help somebody who's wanting to give up."

Talking about the future is a strange new thing for Charlie. He wasn't
supposed to have one.

In December 2002, doctors at the University of Texas Southwestern
Medical Center at Dallas told him he might have amyotrophic lateral
sclerosis (ALS), often called Lou Gehrig's disease. It weakens the
body's muscles and then paralyzes them. It kills its victim, sometimes
slowly, sometimes quickly, but always. In June 2003, the doctors
reported that the diagnosis "has been confirmed."

ALS usually strikes people who are 50 or older. Charlie was only 25.
The Dallas doctors said that he was the youngest ALS victim they had
ever diagnosed and that young ALS victims usually die faster than
older ones. The doctors predicted three to six months for Charlie,
maybe a year.

"To tell somebody they have only so long to live, that really knocks a
person's spirits down," Charlie says now.

Charlie first told his story to The Dallas Morning News in January
2004. He and his friends talked about what he used to be: the star of
Mullin High School's six-man football team, its homecoming king, its
Christmas prince, 6-foot-4 and handsome, strong-bodied and
strong-willed, the leader among the little town's young men.

He and his wife, Rémy, had a 2-year-old daughter, Kyra, and
9-month-old Charlie Jr. Before his illness, Charlie drove a
tractor-trailer rig, hauling stone from Mullin to home builders and
landscapers in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. He was on the road
nearly all the time.

His calamity began one spring day in 2002 when he stepped out of his
rig, lost his balance and fell on his back. His truck driver friends
laughed, but the fall was the first symptom of his illness. It
signaled the horrible change that was about to happen to Charlie.

At the time of the 2004 interview, Charlie had outlived the doctors'
expectations, but he was sinking. His muscles were shrinking. His
speech was slow and slurred. His fingers were stiff and curled. He had
trouble breathing and swallowing.

Rémy dreaded driving the 30 miles to Comanche to buy groceries. She
feared what she might face when she got home. "I was scared to death
that I was going to be the one to ... you know ..."

To find Charlie dead.

Rémy thought of calling a hospice to help him through. Charlie was
angry and defiant and stubborn, and sometimes depressed. He vowed
that, despite the impossible odds and the doctors' expectations, he
would recover.

Many Morning News readers were moved by Charlie's courage. Their
interest led to the establishment of a medical fund for him,
administered through a church in nearby Comanche. They contributed
$16,000.

A reader phoned the Smiths and told them of Dr. William T. Harvey in
Houston, who was treating her husband and other patients for symptoms
like Charlie's and seemed to be having some success.

Charlie and Rémy made an appointment and drove to Houston, three hours
from Mullin, to meet the doctor.

Charlie says, "It was like a big weight was lifted off of us when Dr.
Harvey said, 'Well, we can help you.' Before that, we had no chance.
Before that, we were running down a one-way track."

The doctor

Dr. Harvey is 67 years old, a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a
retired NASA aerospace physician. During his 23-year career as an Air
Force officer, he served as a biomedical engineer and a flight
surgeon, and later in clinical aerospace medicine and in space
medicine research at the U.S. Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine.
After his retirement, he managed medical facilities for NASA and for a
Department of Energy nuclear facility and for Lockheed.

His résumé says he's a clinician in general medicine, but all the
nearly 900 patients he says he has treated in the past four or five
years have had symptoms similar to Charlie's.

His board certifications are in aerospace medicine, not internal
medicine or epidemiology. But in space medicine, he says, NASA
physicians weren't able to depend on medical books, because the books
they needed hadn't been written yet. Now he's working without books
again, he says, because what he's doing is new.

His theory is outside the mainstream of standard diagnosis and
treatment. Briefly and simplistically stated, it's this: Many patients
who are diagnosed with ALS, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, chronic
Lyme disease, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome and other motor
neuron diseases actually are victims of a bacteriological infection
that can be cured or at least alleviated with massive doses of certain
antibiotics.

The bacillus is Borrelia burgdorferi. Dr. Harvey says it's present in
the blood of millions of people around the world, often from birth.
It's relatively harmless, he says, until something triggers it to
attack the nerves that activate the muscles.

Its presence in the blood can't be detected by the standard tests that
most labs and hospitals use. According to Dr. Harvey, only two labs in
the U.S. – one in Florida and one in California – are equipped to find
and identify it.

He hasn't done clinical trials to test his theories, nor has he been
published in peer-reviewed medical journals. Many doctors are
skeptical that bacteria could be the cause of a motor neuron disease.

After the California lab discovered Borrelia burgdorferi in Charlie's
blood, Dr. Harvey prescribed massive doses of antibiotics, some taken
orally, some administered intravenously through a catheter in
Charlie's chest.

Dr. Harvey has seen Charlie three times since his initial visit. He
keeps in touch with the Smiths mostly by phone.

Charting progress

During the second office visit, last September, Dr. Harvey walked
Charlie through all his symptoms, to determine whether any improvement
had been made.

"I can get in and out of the bathtub," Charlie said. "I can take a
shower by myself. My balance has come back. I can shampoo my hair
without losing my balance."

Charlie's fingers were still curled, but he could straighten them a
little more than before. He said he still had headaches. His ability
to swallow had improved. "I eat steak every night," he said.

He had no pain in his legs, but some in his lower back. He no longer
had difficulty breathing at night. He had regained the weight he had
lost. His muscles, which had been shrinking, were coming back."

"Are you irritable?" Dr. Harvey asked.

"Sometimes I wake up in the morning and just want to get out of bed
and run. And I get kind of angry."

"Are you depressed?"

"No."

"This is all good," Dr. Harvey said. "You're changing. I wish it were
faster. It may be a longer journey than we thought it might be. We may
be talking about a couple of years, or it could be that a sudden turn
is just around the corner. We're getting somewhere with the disease. I
think our course is the right one. You guys are fighters. I know
you're going to gut it out."

Six months later, the slow improvement continues.

Charlie's chronic fatigue is gone. He can raise his arms above his
head and lift his feet an inch or two off the floor. His shoulder
muscles are filling out. He can rise from his wheelchair without help,
and can stand erect, although sometimes a little wobbly. His speech is
still slurred, but much clearer than it has been in years. His fingers
are uncurling, slowly. He's beginning physical rehabilitation sessions
in Comanche.

Still a struggle

While Charlie is improving, his illness has brought suffering to Rémy
as well. She has lost weight. She's exhausted. Taking care of her
husband and two rambunctious small children around the clock have worn
her down.

Charlie has been unable to earn a paycheck for almost three years. The
Social Security disability check on which his family lives can't
stretch through the month. Bill collectors harass her.

"Rémy has been through a lot of responsibilities that a lot of people
wouldn't take on," Charlie says. "She has held her head up through it
all. I've learned to appreciate the little things. The one good thing
that has come out of all this is the time I've been at home with my
kids."

Rémy, 24, laughs. "He wouldn't have ever known that Little Charlie has
to have strawberry milk and Kyra loves chocolate milk," she says.

Kyra is 3 now. Little Charlie is a strapping 19-month-old. "They keep
my spirits up," Charlie says. "I ain't got time to feel bad. If none
of this had happened, I'd probably still be driving that truck, and I
wouldn't have near the bond I have with these kids now. This is
something to be proud of."

So when Charlie goes to work again, he wants to come home at night.
His voice fills with energy and a kind of joy w