 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005'Terrible acts': Rima Laibow, MD - hypocrite - babies be damned - was Re: Codex, babies and Congressman/Obstetrician Ron Paul, MD
"TERRIBLE ACTS": RIMA LAIBOW, MD - HYPOCRITE - BABIES BE DAMNED PREGNANT WOMEN: There are SIMPLE things you can do to help your baby at delivery. See below. OPEN LETTER TO RIMA LAIBOW, MD... (archived for global access; search at http://groups.google.com) SHORT VERSION... Rima, to save time see the very end of this post... Sorry to be so blunt - calling you a hypocrite. Your CODEX project is important - but your fellow MDs are committing MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION - before and after birth. Your fellow MDs are LYING to cover-up what you call their "terrible acts"... The MD lies are OBVIOUS (see below). You are violating law and stated medical ethics (quoted below), helping to perpetuate what you call "terrible acts"... Women shouldn't have to ASK for the "extra" up to 30% of pelvic outlet area for their babies. Women shouldn't have to ask for the "extra" up to 50% of blood for their babies. I am sure that 100% of babies being asphyxiated would agree that the CODEX problem is a relatively minor emergency (though I see where CODEX could eventually become a major emergency in your professional natural healing practice). By focusing on CODEX, you are failing to do the minimum to stop the mass baby asphyxiation. You are demonstrating interest in your PROFESSIONAL "health and freedom" - babies' health and freedom be damned. You are a hypocrite. Again, sorry to be blunt - but it's true. LONG VERSION... Rima E. Laibow, MD Medical Director Natural Solutions Foundation rima.laibow@healthfreedomusa.org Rima, You wrote: <snip> > I agree that unnatural birthing positions, bright lights, separation of > mother and baby after birth, unanesthetized circumcision, prematurely > clamping of the cord, etc. are all terrible acts. I was glad to see your use of the phrase "terrible acts"... Graphic descriptions of your euphemisms will help people understand why your euphemisms are misguided... 1. "UNNATURAL BIRTHING POSITIONS": Obstetricians are knowingly closing birth canals up to 30% - knowingly KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck - as they pull with hands, forceps and vacuums - sometimes pulling so hard they rip spinal nerves out of tiny spinal cords. See the Four OB Lies below - they are whoppers... See also: RNs: 'Stitches, episiotomy, and postpartum complications' (Maternal care learning needs) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3725 2. "UNANESTHESIZED CIRCUMCISION": American medicine's mass ripping and slicing of infant penises abruptly went from "no medical indication" to "effective public health measure" (by voice vote and over the objections of a Scientific Board) immediately after I exposed American medicine's phony "babies can't feel pain" neurology. Even "anesthetized" circumcision/infant penis ripping and slicing is obvious child abuse. Even if the anesthesia was complete - and there were no wound pain after the anethesia wore off - it would still be child abuse. "Anesthetizing" a no medical indication procedure that sometimes kills or causes loss of penis does not stop it from being obvious child abuse. Look what happened when I called for an exemption from the child abuse laws for the ancient Jewish ritual that leaves most of the foreskin on the penis... See Emerson on Circumcision; also: Africa and [Fore]skin Freaks (American MDs) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3774 3. "PREMATURELY CLAMPING THE CORD": Immediately amputating mother from baby, asphyxiating umbilical cord oxygen, forcing baby to breathe with lungs before ready, robbing baby of up to 50% of blood volume. Retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG says this happens to EVERY CESAREAN BABY. It also happens in most "cord blood banking" vaginal births... Dr. Morley is recommending a sort of temporary baby strangling experiment to help obstetricians understand that they shouldn't permanently asphyxiate/deny umbilical cord oxygen and rob babies of massive amounts of blood... Here is Dr. Morley's temporary baby strangling experiment: "[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The [fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb." http://www.cordclamping.com/ac og-cp.htm PREGNANT WOMEN: To make sure your baby gets the "extra" up to 50% of blood volume, do not let the obstetrician or midwife clamp your baby's umbilical cord until it has stopped pulsating and your baby is pink and breathing and not in need of resuscitation. Talk to your obstetrician or midwife today. Rima Laibow, MD continued... > I am not sure they > are child abuse since they are taught as good practice. It is OBVIOUS they are child abuse - complete with MD cover-up lies and obvious baby asphyxiation experiment (see above). That said, in accord with your "taught as good practice" observation, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform these obvious felonies. > The object is > to make sure that the teaching changes Agreed - hence my call for pardons in advance for MDs. > and the key there is the > "customer". There are TWO "customers"... Women shouldn't have to ASK for the "extra" up to 30% of room in the birth canal for the second "customer"/baby; nor should women have to ask for the "extra" up to 50% of blood for the second "customer"/baby. Most women don't KNOW to ask - MDs are LYING to cover-up the crime. > If women stop going to docs who do things wrong, they will > change. > They always do. Women are FORCED to "go to docs who do things wrong" - because the docs don't tell them they are doing things wrong - as they lord their legal medical/surgical monopoly over women. You say: "Health freedom means the freedom to choose your own health products, treatments, and practitioners. No one, government or corporation, should dictate or limit these choices." http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/ Your birth-canal-closing profession USED government - is STILL using government - to deny women free access to HOMEBIRTH and Homebirth midwives... > Consider Lamaze Birthing: empty delivery suites led to obstetrical > enlightenment. Lamaze also advocated (may still advocate) semisitting/closing the birth canal up to 30%. "Obstetrical enlightenment" was obstetricians calling homebirth "child abuse"... > Money talks. Money talks? So do Suspected Child Abuse Reports from MDs... You ignore obvious MD lies and fail to officially suspect the "terrible acts" as child abuse - or report them - babies be damned. You are in obvious violation of both law and medical ethics... RELEVANT AMA PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL ETHICS.... "[AMA physician[s] shall...strive to expose those physicians...who engage in fraud or deception." "[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...seek changes in those requirements which are contrary to the best interests of the patient." "[AMA p]hysician[s] shall...make relevant information available to patients, colleagues, and the public..." http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/ethics/ethics_opinions53101.cfm Relevant quote from the AMA website: "[P]hysicians must strive to ensure patient safety and should play a central role in identifying, reducing, and preventing health care errors. This responsibility exists even in the absence of a patient-physician relationship." http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/11968.html Rima, filing a report is the MINIMUM "striving" required by law when "terrible acts" against children are so much as SUSPECTED. > Thanks for your input. You are welcome. Thanks for your reply, such as it was... > Yours in health and freedom, > Dr. Laibow You are a hypocrite. Your priority is the health and freedom of your PROFESSION. Meanwhile your profession DENIES freedom (for example) by lying - and tying male babies to boards to rip and slice their penises...not to mention denying freedom by keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck - and lying to cover-up THAT "terrible act" as you called it... HERE ARE THE FOUR OB LIES (they are whoppers) that support medicine's bizarre birth-canal-closing behavior: OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957, the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery. OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet. OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does Semisitting [Gastaldo TD. Birth. 1992;19(4):230] - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to their text... OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get stuck - and claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal open maximally - an indirect admisssion that obstetricians are KNOWINGLY closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30% routinely. (See the ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video. Note also: forceps and vacuum births are performed with the mother in lithotomy, birth canal closed the "extra" up to 30%.) Rima, maybe you weren't aware of the LIES underlying what you called "terrible acts"?? Whatever - I urge you to end your hypocrisy and report the obvious child abuse - and urge other MDs to report. Write about your action on your website, www.healthfreedomusa.org. Urge Hypocrite/Obstetrician/Congressman Ron Paul, MD to report and speak out in Congress. Obstetricians are asphxiating babies - robbing them of up to 50% of their blood volume - ROUTINELY. And this baby blood robbery/asphyxiation happens after the routine birth-canal-closing asphyxiation which may cause brain bleeds. (An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" term babies are born with unexplained brain bleeds as MDs senselessly close birth canals the "extra" up to 30% - then rob massive amounts of baby blood.) These are indeed "terrible acts." EMERGENCY, RIMA...Just do the minimum required of you by law and state medical ethics (quoted above). Do it for health and freedom of babies... Thanks. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com > Todd Gastaldo wrote: > >> CODEX, BABIES AND CONGRESSMAN/OBSTETRICIAN RON PAUL, MD >> >> OPEN LETTER (archived for global access at http://groups.google.com) >> >> Rima E. Laibow, MD >> Medical Director >> Natural Solutions Foundation >> rima.laibow@healthfreedomusa.org >> >> Rima, >> >> I was pleased to see that Congressman/Obstetrician Ron Paul, MD helped you >> get the Codex briefing going. >> >> Sorry that the briefing now seems to have changed/disappeared. (Your post >> below was emailed to me via Jake.) >> >> Be advised: Congressman/Obstetrician Ron Paul, MD is a member of a specialty >> that is closing birth canals up to 30% and robbing babies of up to 50% of >> their blood volume. >> >> See Libertarians: Crooked obstetrician Ron Paul, MD (also: Michael Badnarik >> for Congress) >> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3789 >> >> I hope that Congressman/Obstetrician Paul has not diverted his attention >> from the Codex briefing matter in order to perpetuate his speciality's >> obvious criminal negligence. >> >> I hope that your Natural Solutions Foundation will get the word out about >> the obstetric criminal negligence. >> >> I have asked that a few obstetricians be arrested... >> >> See Arresting obstetricians - Lt. Bill Hunt: 11165PC Suspected (Mass) Child >> Abuse Report >> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3848 >> >> But I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As med students, MDs are >> TRAINED to perform obvious felonies. >> >> You yourself were probably trained to close birth canals up to 30%. >> >> Please help stop this madness. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Todd >> >> Dr. Gastaldo >> Hillsboro, Oregon >> todd@chiromotion.com >> >> RIMA LAIBOW, MD wrote: >> >> Whoops! The Codex Briefing is Now About Something Else! >> >> Which Forces Do You Think Have Been At Work? >> >> This is war. I've been saying that and perhaps some of you thought that I >> was merely using a figure of speech. No, there is a war on your health and >> your health freedom and the adversaries are very big and very, very rich. >> They use their power and wealth ruthlessly. Here's what just happened: <snip> >> PS- Get ready for our next big project: raising funds in new way on the >> Internet Rima, babies are being ASPHYXIATED en masse - both before birth (see The Four OB Lies) and after birth (see Dr. Morley's obviously illegal temporary baby asphyxiation experiment quoted above)... It would cost you nothing to report this obvious mass child abuse. It would cost you nothing to urge other MDs to report - right on your webpage. THAT should be your next project. You could do it in a day. First do the minimum to help stop the mass baby asphyxiation by your fellow MDs.... THEN move on to fundraising. (Incidentally, stopping the mass child abuse would nearly instantly save America BILLIONS per year.) Good luck in your CODEX battle. I encourage everyone to visit Rima's web page at: http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/ Thanks for reading everyone. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com This Open Letter to Rima Laibow, MD will be archived for global access in the Google usenet archive. Search http://groups.google.com for "'Terrible acts': Rima Laibow, MD - hypocrite - babies be damned." DR. LAIBOW "ALIENATED" BY DR. GASTALDO Women should not have to ASK for obstetricians not to rob their babies of up to 50% of their blood volume. Most women don't KNOW to ask. This mass baby blood robbery is happening to EVERY CESAREAN BABY - and in most "cord blood bank" vaginal births... It's MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION and it could end soon if MD-friendlies spoke out... So I risk further "alienating" an MD-friendly who emphasizes the term INNATE (yay Dr. Laibow!) http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/about/medicaldirector.shtml Rima, I do like your use of the term INNATE - but you are shirking a LEGAL obligation to children as your fellow MDs rob them of blood that Innate furnishes them - see below... Rima, my responses are interspersed ###### ------ Forwarded Message From: "Dr. Laibow" <info@healthfreedomusa.org> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:59:24 -0400 To: Todd Gastaldo <tgastaldo@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: 'Terrible acts': Rima Laibow, MD - hypocrite - babies be damned - was Re: Codex, babies and Congressman/Obstetrician Ron Paul, MD Todd, Hold it right there! You are way off the mark. ##### False. Mass baby asphyxiation is being committed by your fellow MDs - you call it a "terrible act" - you obviously suspect child abuse - yet you are failing to do the MINIMUM required of you by law and report. I fight for health and freedom and support others who do the same. ##### Good. Babies are being asphyxiated en masse. Do the minimum required by law - do it for the babies. I have a career long record of speaking out for exactly that regardless of the consequences. ##### Good. What is keeping you from reporting the mass baby asphyxiation and publicly urging your fellow MDs to report? Put it up on your web page. I have no idea why you are so aggressive toward someone who is on your side... ##### A friendly MD's failure to do the MINIMUM required by law to help is I imagine QUITE pleasant for law enforcement to observe. SHE's not even on his side they might say... and why you are spending your time attacking me for not focusing on exactly the same issue that you do. ##### I am focusing on the fact that you are ignoring a MANDATORY focus - babies be damned. MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION - plus other obvious "terrible acts" (your phrase) are being committed against babies by your fellow MDs - and you are failing to do the minimum to stop them. Sorry to say it, but your intolerant rage is mis-directed. ##### I suspect my "intolerant rage" is NOTHING compared to the rage a baby feels as s/he is pulled by the skull through a birth canal senselessly closed up to 30% or asphyxiated and robbed of up to 50% of his/her blood volume. Read the law. If you so much as SUSPECT child abuse ("terrible acts") - you are MANDATED to report. Anything less is intolerable - IT'S THE LAW. I am not a hypocrite: ##### Yes you are a hypocrite. You want PROFESSIONAL health and freedom from CODEX so you can practice and help your patients - but you are silent (in violation of the law!) about BABIES' health and freedom from "terrible acts"... there are quite enough people attacking us for us to not need to attack each other. ##### Please note: I support your CODEX fight. I do not support your failures to report suspected child abuse and publicly urge other MDs to do so. You are blithely failing to the the minimum required by law in the face of MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION. ##### Incidentally, failure to report suspected child abuse is a crime because it can perpetuate child abuse - attacks on children. Your failure to speak up about MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION is an indirect attack on children. Take a deep breath and remember that there are many paths to freedom: you fight on yours and I will support you. I will fight on mine and expect the same support from you. ##### You don't get it. When child abuse is so much as SUSPECTED - the path for freeing children from it is MANDATORY. Please immediately take that path and urge your fellow MDs to do the same until the MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION ends. I am equally appalled at the mandatory drugging of children (and adults) and see that as another major threat to health, life and liberty. Does that mean that since this is not your battle YOU are a hypocrite? ##### WHAT? You think as a chiro I am not opposed to mandatory drugging of children (and adults)?!! LOL! See Tell Congress to get the F out of the water! http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3881 See also: A dentist's child abuse crime (also: Pregnant citizens: URGENT) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3859 And see: CDC ruse: 'It's the thimerosal, stupid' - was Re: Forced Vaccination http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3875 ##### Rima Laibow, MD continued... ...we each choose our battles and, all told, they ARE the Health Freedom War. ###### FALSE. When it is so much as SUSPECTED that children are being abused - there is no choice - reporting is MANDATORY - which accords with stated medical ethics quoted in my post to you, forwarded below. I hope you can calm down and stop acting so self righteously when there are allies all around you. ##### After all these years, I am quite calm. Children have mandatory "allies" who are (excuse my French) pissing on the child protection statutes and screwing children. MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION - mass baby blood robbery - birth canals kept closed as MDs pull - these obvious crimes are being committed by MDs who are LYING to cover-up. Don't alienate them just because you are so involved with you battle that you can't tell the friend from the foe. ##### There is NOTHING in the child protection laws about ignoring one's obligation to report suspected child abuse because one feels "alienated" by someone calling attention to one's suspected child abuse reporting obligation. Yours in health and freedom, Rima E. Laibow, MD #### Again Rima - sorry to be blunt - you are a hypocrite. #### If you report the massive crimes as child abuse - and publicly urge your fellow MDs to do the same - I think you will be the first MD to do so. #### Use your INNATE ability to heal (nice phrase, nice INNATE emphasis, BTW)... http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/about/medicaldirector.shtml ###### Do the minimum required by law (and medical ethics) to stop MASS BABY ASPHYXIATION by your fellow MDs. ###### I say again... > RELEVANT AMA PRINCIPLES OF MEDICAL ETHICS.... > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Rima, filing a report is the MINIMUM "striving" required by law when > "terrible acts" against children are so much as SUSPECTED. #### Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com This response to Dr. Laibow will be archived for global access in the Google usenet archive. Search http://groups.google.com for "Dr. Laibow 'alienated' by Dr. Gastaldo" > "TERRIBLE ACTS": RIMA LAIBOW, MD - HYPOCRITE - BABIES BE DAMNED > [quoted text clipped - 392 lines] > Search http://groups.google.com for "'Terrible acts': Rima Laibow, MD - > hypocrite - babies be damned." > DR. LAIBOW "ALIENATED" BY DR. GASTALDO > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So I risk further "alienating" an MD-friendly who emphasizes the term INNATE The average hematocrit is very high in the 55 to 60% on most babies I have seen and with very few nucleated red cells indicative of hypoxia. I can't see your point that babies are losing 50% of their blood supply and are being made hypoxic on average. HOLY BABIES WITH SLOWED HEARTS, BATMAN! EXTREME BRADYCARDIA! IS "ROBERTSSONG" AN MD? I HOPE SO... See below. >> DR. LAIBOW "ALIENATED" BY DR. GASTALDO >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I can't see your point that babies are losing 50% of their blood supply and > are being made hypoxic on average. "RobertsSong" are you an MD? I hope so... I have seen the up to 50% figure in the medical literature... Here is "50%+" in an article by retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG... "ACOG's routine treatment (B138) of these depressed neonates is immediate cord clamping to obtain cord blood pH studies. The child's only functioning source of oxygen - the placenta - is amputated together with 30% to 50+% of its natural blood volume. Total asphyxia is imposed until the lungs function, and the depressed (asphyxiated, hypovolemic) child starts its extra-uterine life in hypovolemic shock... B138 was first published in 1993. Every cesarean section baby, every depressed child, every premie, and every child born with a neonatal team in the delivery room has its cord clamped immediately to facilitate the panicked rush to the resuscitation table. The current epidemic of immediate cord clamping coincides with an epidemic of autism...For the trial lawyers, it is essential that the 'true genesis' of cerebral palsy remains unknown, because that 'true genesis' (B.138) is a standard of medico-legal care..." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm What if it's "only" 30%? Or "only" 20%? Or "only" 10%? EXTREME BRADYCARDIA... And what about MDs blithely causing extreme bradycardia, as in, "[E]xtreme bradycardia [heart rate under 80 bpm] is always an expression of fetal distress and is a consequence of reduced gas exchange at the placenta." --From CARDIOPULMONARY BYPASS IN PREGNANT PATIENTS. By Maria Helena L. Souza, CCP (BR)* & Decio O. Elias, MD** * Perfusionist / ** Pediatric Cardiac Surgeon http://perfline.com/textbook/local/pregnancy.html Dr. Morley blithely has obstetricians causing 60 bpm bradycardia! "[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The [fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm RobertsSong - MD or not - do you suspect Dr. Morley's temporary baby asphyxiation experiment to be child abuse? Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com > HOLY BABIES WITH SLOWED HEARTS, BATMAN! > > EXTREME BRADYCARDIA! > > IS "ROBERTSSONG" AN MD? I HOPE SO... Not an MD just somebody who can see through all that stuff, to call it mildly, that you have been posting. Get you head out of vaginas and baby pee-pees. ROBERTSSONG TRIVIALIZES MASS CHILD ABUSE.. See below. >> HOLY BABIES WITH SLOWED HEARTS, BATMAN! >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Get you head out of vaginas and baby pee-pees. Robertssong, I once had my head in a vagina as the MD senselessly narrowed it and perhaps sliced it. I never had my head in a "baby pee-pee": though I once had an MD rip and slice my pee-pee. You are trivializing mass child abuse by MDs... I say again... ...what about MDs blithely causing extreme bradycardia, as in, "[E]xtreme bradycardia [heart rate under 80 bpm] is always an expression of fetal distress and is a consequence of reduced gas exchange at the placenta." --From CARDIOPULMONARY BYPASS IN PREGNANT PATIENTS. By Maria Helena L. Souza, CCP (BR)* & Decio O. Elias, MD** * Perfusionist / ** Pediatric Cardiac Surgeon http://perfline.com/textbook/local/pregnancy.html Dr. Morley blithely has obstetricians causing 60 bpm bradycardia! "[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The [fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm Up to 50% of blood volume robbed - routinely. And Robertssong trivializes the obvious mass child abuse. Do you work in a hospital Robertssong? Todd >The average hematocrit is very high in the 55 to 60% on most babies I have >seen and with very few nucleated red cells indicative of hypoxia. > >I can't see your point that babies are losing 50% of their blood supply and >are being made hypoxic on average. In the last 5 years I have cared for exactly one neonate who didn't have his "blood robbed" immediately by an obstetrician at birth. (He was born at home.) He was incredibly polycythemic and had to be admitted for phototherapy just a few days later because of hyperbilirubinemia. He barely escaped an exchange transfusion. I sure hope obstetricians keep clamping cords right away. Go obstetricians! PF PEDIATRICIAN CHEERLEADS CHILD ABUSE... <snip anecdote> > I sure hope obstetricians keep clamping cords right away. Go > obstetricians! Perhaps PF Riley, MD cheerleads for child abuse/routine asphyxiation of babies because he is embarrassed that his fellow pediatricians (neonatologists) aid and abet obstetricians in the obvious mass child abuse crime... Retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG indicates that "every child born with a neonatal team in the delivery room" is asphyxiated: "ACOG's routine treatment (B138) of these depressed neonates is immediate cord clamping to obtain cord blood pH studies. The child's only functioning source of oxygen - the placenta - is amputated together with 30% to 50+% of its natural blood volume. Total asphyxia is imposed until the lungs function, and the depressed (asphyxiated, hypovolemic) child starts its extra-uterine life in hypovolemic shock... B138 was first published in 1993. Every cesarean section baby, every depressed child, every premie, and every child born with a neonatal team in the delivery room has its cord clamped immediately to facilitate the panicked rush to the resuscitation table. The current epidemic of immediate cord clamping coincides with an epidemic of autism...For the trial lawyers, it is essential that the 'true genesis' of cerebral palsy remains unknown, because that 'true genesis' (B.138) is a standard of medico-legal care..." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm OBSTETRICIANS ARE KNOWINGLY CAUSING FETAL DISTRESS - EXTREME BRADYCARDIA - slowing the heart - as in - "[E]xtreme bradycardia [heart rate under 80 beats per minute] is always an expression of fetal distress and is a consequence of reduced gas exchange at the placenta." --From CARDIOPULMONARY BYPASS IN PREGNANT PATIENTS. By Maria Helena L. Souza, CCP (BR)* & Decio O. Elias, MD** * Perfusionist / ** Pediatric Cardiac Surgeon http://perfline.com/textbook/local/pregnancy.html Dr. Morley blithely has obstetricians causing 60 beat per minute TEMPORARY bradycardia - to help obstetricians demonstrate to themselves why they shouldn't PERMANENTLY deny umbilical oxygen and rob babies of blood: "[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The [fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm Pediatrician KC Finkel once noted that pediatricians are guilty of failing to report child abuse: "What a terrible indictment...guilty of failing those for whom we have chosen to be advocates." [Finkel KC: The failure to report child abuse. AJDC, 1986;140:329-330] Failure to report child abuse is a child abuse crime because it can perpetuate child abuse. THINK ABOUT IT... 1. Instead of reporting the obvious mass baby blood robbery child abuse, Dr. Morley has obstetricians performing a TEMPORARY baby asphyxiation child abuse experiment (see above)... 2. Pseudonymous usenet pediatrician PF Riley, MD not only fails to report - he publicly CHEERLEADS the obvious crime, saying: "I sure hope obstetricians keep clamping cords right away. Go obstetricians!" As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform obvious felonies that harm and sometimes kill children.... Law enforcement is looking the other way - babies be damned. See Arresting obstetricians - Lt. Bill Hunt: 11165PC Suspected (Mass) Child Abuse Report http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3848 Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com >1. Instead of reporting the obvious mass baby blood robbery child abuse, Dr. >Morley has obstetricians performing a TEMPORARY baby asphyxiation child [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform obvious felonies that harm >and sometimes kill children.... And chiropractors are trained to deliver babies? A certain minimum familiarization with the techniques involved in handling precipitous labor is merely good common sense (you teach such things to EMTs and police officers, too, despite their pallor and nausea during the training films and their desperate hope that they will die in a fiery crash before ever having to employ such knowledge), but I doubt that Dr. Gastaldo has more familiarity with antenatal care than such as is gained when he notices on one of his innumerable postural x-rays the fact that there's a fetal skeleton obscuring his visualization of the patient's lumbosacral spine. Whoops! ---------------- If a man, being ill of a pus appendix, resorts to a shaved and fumigated longshoreman to have it disposed of, and submits willingly to a treatment involving balancing him on McBurney's spot and playing on his vertebra as on a concertina, then I am willing, for one, to believe that he is badly wanted in Heaven. And if that same man, having achieved lawfully a lovely babe, hires a blacksmith to cure its diphtheria by pulling its neck, then I do not resist the divine will that there shall be one less radio fan later on. -- H.L. Mencken, "Chiropractic" (1924) > And chiropractors are trained to deliver babies? A certain > minimum familiarization with the techniques involved in handling [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > -- H.L. Mencken, "Chiropractic" (1924) I doubt extremely that I could have liked Mencken (nor he me) but that's just boooteeefull! Steve  Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } CHIROS AND HOMEBIRTH ALSO: "SHAVED AND FUMIGATED" MD CRAZINESS... See below... >> 1. Instead of reporting the obvious mass baby blood robbery child abuse, Dr. >> Morley has obstetricians performing a TEMPORARY baby asphyxiation child [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And chiropractors are trained to deliver babies? SJ Doc, "Mere" homebirth midwives are trained to deliver babies. Homebirth midwives did such a great job with their apprenticeship training that MDs had to resort to lies and slander (anti-science) to create their childbirth industry complete with "med"wives called CNMwives who used to champion homebirth but (most of whom) ended up championing hospital birth and aping MDs in trashing homebirth and non-nurse midwives. It was California's licensure of CNMwives - and the use of Roe v. Wade - that slammed homebirth hardest in the 1974 Bowland decision... Before that, California MDs politically choked off California's supply of licensed homebirth practitioners - by simultaneously stopping the issuance of new homebirth chiropractic licenses (medical practice act drugless practitioners) and new homebirth midwives (medical practice act midwives)... Previous to that, the 1922 Chiropractic Initiative Act of California was intended to bring together under the same umbrella the drugless practitioner/homebirth chiros with the rest - and for a time it was a requirement of the California Board of Chiropractic Examiners that doctors of chiropractic attend one birth prior to licensure. Circa 1987, Atty Mike Schroeder - a "chiropractic" attorney who later became chairman of the California Republican Party - wrote Rule 302 - a regulation that forbids chiros from severing umbilical cords. The California Chiropractic Association/CCA liked Atty Schroeder so much they made him an honorary member at about the time he wrote his Rule 302. Subsequently, Atty Schroeder jumped to the California Board of Chiropractic Examiners to defend his Rule 302 against the "attack" of 10 MD-obstetricians et al. who managed to get Rule 302 judicially rubberstamped as Atty Schroeder bilked the State of California out of hundreds of thousands in DC licensing fees in the process... Atty Schroeder later filed a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation/SLAPP against me - for saying he "bilked" the hundreds of thousands. Schroeder's SLAPP was an illegal attempt to stop me from exercising my First Amendment right to petition for a redress of grievances caused when Atty Schroeder served as a public official (attorney for the chiro board). Schroeder's Rule 302 was written, I suspect, because "cord blood banking" was coming of age and obstetricians and their masters feared that chiros would one day wake up and realize that obstetricians are OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately. Schroeder's Rule 302 was likely the reason a man calling himself Mike Schroeder, Attorney for the California Board of Chiropractic Examiners told me it was outside my scope of practice to tell pregnant women that obstetricians are closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30%. I am pretty sure this latter man WAS Schroeder, though I can't prove it. I finally decided to explicitly ask the Board itself: IS it outside the scope of chiropractic in California to tell pregnant women that obstetricians are closing birth canals up to 30%? It's been two years - I've asked the Board a few times - no answer yet... See Birth Danger: Cal Chiro Bd - SIMPLE QUESTION http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3526 Meanwhile, as California DCs are prohibited from severing umbilical cords - MDs are closing birth canals up to 30%, gruesomely manipulating most babies' spines - sometimes severing babies' SPINAL NERVES. I think homebirth midwives are about to make a huge comeback - in California and elsewhere. I hope they do. Before MDs created their gruesome childbirth industry, Dr. DD Palmer, Founder of Chiropractic, wrote: "Obstetrics is the art of midwifery...Mothers and their babes are liable to be injured at childbirth...If the accoucheur is a Chiropractor, he can adjust such, thereby preventing disease." [1910:789] Marsden Wagner, MD^^^ once said in an amicus brief: "Chiropractic physicians are conceivably closest in philosophy to the midwives due to their training in the non-use of drugs...If a nurse or [medical] physician desires to practice midwifery, then it is necessary for each to [undergo one year or more of training] to literally 'unlearn' the pathological vision to get the proper perspective of normality." ^^^Marsden Wagner, MD served for 15 years as the director of women's and children's health for the World Health Organization. The quote above appeared in Wagner's amicus brief in the Peckman midwifery case and was published in NAPSAC News Spring 1991 by the InterNational Association of Parents and Professionals for Safe Alternatives in Childbirth, Rt. 1, Box 646, Marble Hill, MO 63764 USA. To answer your question, SJ Doc Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above and beyond the didactic obstetrics course which most chiro students still take. Chiropractors trained and licensed in Oregon are trained and licensed to deliver babies; though I don't think any of them do. Also noteworthy: The Oregon homebirth midwifery licensure law used to (and may still) specifically state that a license is not required to practice midwifery. > A certain > minimum familiarization with the techniques involved in handling > precipitous labor is merely good common sense Yes. Good common sense would include stopping obstetricians from closing birth canals up to 30%. Good common sense would also include stopping obstetricians from KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck. > (you teach > such things to EMTs and police officers, too, despite their pallor > and nausea during the training films and their desperate hope > that they will die in a fiery crash before ever having to employ > such knowledge), I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for maternity transports. He described how he handled births that didn't make it to the hospital. He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth canals the "extra' up to 30%. > but I doubt that Dr. Gastaldo has more > familiarity with antenatal care than such as is gained My primary familiarity is with a specific aspect of INTRAPARTUM care. The authors of Williams Obstetrics published "my" biomechanics - but left in their text the "dorsal widens" bald lie that first called my attention to their text. This bizarre behavior of the authors of Williams Obstetrics is one of The Four OB Lies... See again: Birth Danger: Cal Chiro Bd - SIMPLE QUESTION http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3526 > when he > notices on one of his innumerable postural x-rays the fact that > there's a fetal skeleton obscuring his visualization of the patient's > lumbosacral spine. Whoops! I am no longer in spinal adjusting practice - no longer taking x-rays - but while I was in practice I was fastidious about doing my damndest never to x-ray pregnant women. It was drilled into us in chiropractic college. Following the Rule 302/Schroeder episode (see above), I chose to voluntarily forfeit my chiropractic license. My focus now is exposing obvious obstetric frauds. No license or degree is necessary - ANYONE can adjust without touching the spine - educate to save tiny lives and tiny limbs and PREVENT more putative vertebral subluxations than licensed/degreed DCs will ever be able to adjust by hand. Pretty funny "Chiropractic" quote from HL Mencken... > ---------------- > If a man, being ill of a pus appendix, resorts to a shaved and > fumigated longshoreman to have it disposed of, and submits > willingly to a treatment involving balancing him on McBurney's > spot and playing on his vertebra as on a concertina, then I am > willing, for one, to believe that he is badly wanted in Heaven. LOL! "...badly wanted in heaven" (!) Thank goodness for surgery and surgical skill when necessary (the Founder of Chiropractic said, "Look well to conservative surgery"). But I wonder how many "shaved and fumigated" MDs unnecessarily relieved children of their appendices and tonsils and unnecessarily killed children in the process... CURRENT "shaved and fumigated" MD craziness includes routinely asphyxiating babies/robbing them of massive amounts of blood AFTER asphyxiating babies by keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck - with "shaved and fumigated" MDs pulling on babies' spines as if involved in a tug-of-war with longshoremen... DJ Doc's Mencken quote cont'd: > And if that same man, having achieved lawfully a lovely babe, > hires a blacksmith to cure its diphtheria by pulling its neck, > then I do not resist the divine will that there shall be one > less radio fan later on. > > -- H.L. Mencken, "Chiropractic" (1924) Hmmmm... 1924... Massive numbers of lawfully and unlawfully "achieved" babes are being denied massive numbers of free daily immunizations because medical "science" adopted infant formula in the early twentieth century. Science has discovered that breastfeeding women manufacture immunizations that reportedly make MD-needle-vaccinations work better... American MDs are mostly silent about this discovery - STILL denying massive numbers of babies massive numbers of free daily immunizations. What woman - explicitly informed that she can IMMUNIZE her baby daily and (reportedly) make vaccinations work better is going to fail to at least ATTEMPT to breastfeed? American MDs are ignoring a simple way to make both the breastfeeding (immunization) and vaccination rates skyrocket. Thanks for reading everyone. Sincerely, Todd Dr. Gastaldo Hillsboro, Oregon USA todd@chiromotion.com On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%" and some further stuff about *Williams Obstetrics* (McGraw- Hill; which edition, I wonder?). The first question - Jeez, I know I'm gonna catch it for this, but I just *gotta* ask - is just what the hell do you mean by this repeated goddam expression "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%," anyway? On those few occasions when I had to sit there and get amniotic fluid all over my shoes in the course of a normal spontaneous (or pitocin induced) vaginal delivery, the fetal presenting part slid down the curve of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non- generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my- way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I manage to get my Size-8½-gloved hand into the uterus on certain rare and scrotum-tightening occasions to seek out and gently remove retained placental cotyledons that were responsible for excessive third stage bleeding? Are you referring to all the c-sections that the OB guys perform so promiscuously, or are you talking about episiotomy repair? And what the hell is with this perpetual "extra" in quotation marks? If there's any sense in this expression, it's sailing *way* the hellangone past anything I ever read or heard in school or in practice over the course of a fun-filled and occasionally terrifying life in the ranks of Them Wot Got Betadyne Stains on Their Sweatsocks. I know all about how the politically connected medicos have done every damned thing they can to restrict patient access to health care providers who charge lower fees for their services than licensed physicians do, including nurse practitioners, physi- cian assistants, and nurse midwives. It's the same with lawyers and their hatred for paralegals providing "boilerplate" legal services. Every form of professional licensure throughout the history of civilization has been designed to allow established practitioners to get a chokehold on market entry and either create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*, government maundering about "quality of care" be damned. No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated: "There is no occupation so remote that an attempt has not been made to restrict its practice by licensure...The justification offered is always the same: to protect the consumer. However, the reason is demonstrated by observing who lobbies at the state legislature for the imposition or strengthening of licensure. The lobbyists are invariably representatives of the occupation in question rather than of the customers. True enough, plumbers presumably know better than anyone else what their consumers need to be protected against. However, it is hard to regard altruistic concern for their customers as the primary motive behind their determined efforts to get legal power to decide who may be a plumber." Not that I agree much with the socialist sucking-up of George Bernard Shaw, but - like the proverbial stopped clock being right at least twice a day - he could occasionally catch the facts of a matter and fix them upon the printed page. In his preface to *The Doctor's Dilemma*, he wrote: "The effect...is to make the medical profession a conspiracy to hide its own shortcomings. No doubt the same may be said of all professions. They are all conspiracies against the laity." Politics aside, what is it that's getting your freak on about >obstetricians...OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing >umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately, f'chrissake? And (yet again) what d'you mean by >...closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30% so repeatedly that you seem to have a keyboard macro configured to do the job for you? Is there some kind of federal statute (reflected in some Title of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations) by which the criminality of closing an umbilical clamp at a particular moment has been estab- lished? As for.... >Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above >and beyond the didactic obstetrics course which most chiro >students still take. > >Chiropractors trained and licensed in Oregon are trained and >licensed to deliver babies; though I don't think any of them do. I should sure as hell think so. Ever think that maybe the plaintiff's bar has something to do about that? I knew a GP down in Cumberland County (probably retired by now) who used to do so many deliveries that he met with the obstetrics section of the Department of Surgery instead of with the rest of us in the Department of Medicine. The joke was that the only way for a patient to get into his practice was to be born in it. I don't want to think what the annual professional liability insurance premiums must be like for any primary care "provider" who might be insane enough to seek and secure obstetrical privileges at any hospital in any state in the present union. The lawyers would be on the poor bastard like barracudas on a boatload of refugees. >I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for >maternity transports. Ah, yes. That's symptomatic of something the EMT-P guys call the "Jolly Volly Syndrome." We've got a bit of that in the volunteer ambulance corps hitherabouts. "Good Sam- aritan" laws provide something of a shield, but from what I've been told the local corps are *very* particular about docu- menting in each case that they have done bloody *everything* necessary to get Mom to the nearest Emergency Department rather than break out the L&D kit in the back of the truck. And you say that... >He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth >canals the "extra" up to 30%. ...eh? Well, jeez, I'll betcha he was astounded to learn that anybody could keep spouting that phrase without specifying just what the hell it means, too. And you're not familiar with Mencken's "Chiropractic" essay? The damned thing has been continuously in print (in Mencken's first *Chrestomathy*) since before the man died in 1956. Just how the hell deep was the hole in which you were raised that you could not know about Mencken, or never have read that essay before? You're a *chiropractor* and this little bit of prose is new to you? Yeesh! --------------- Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848) http://bastiat.org/en/government.html > On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote > yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%" [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being > "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's description of what labor feels like. Steve > If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I > manage to get my Size-8½-gloved hand into the uterus on [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > -- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848) > http://bastiat.org/en/government.html SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > > Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use that as his wife's > description of what labor feels like. If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to the sensation, only that's over in a minute or two. > > > "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you've ever awoken with a terrible leg cramp, you're a lot closer to the > sensation, only that's over in a minute or two. My God, you have terrible leg cramps! Cathy >>>>"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Cathy I had the same thought. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > >>>>"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I had the same thought. (I had an unmedicated delivery with a midwife as well.) IMO the uterine contractions are a lot more painful than the perineal stretch, because for me anyway, there was so much pressure on the perineum that I had no sensation there, and I didn't even feel the episiotomy. I just meant it's a similar feeling, if you generalize the nocturnal leg cramp sensation to your whole pelvis and abdomen. Patti >>>>>>"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Patti My wife suffered 12 hours with induced labor before she relented and had an epidural. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > (I had an unmedicated delivery with a midwife as well.) IMO the uterine > > contractions are a lot more painful than the perineal stretch, because for > > me anyway, there was so much pressure on the perineum that I had no > > sensation there, and I didn't even feel the episiotomy. I just meant it's a > > similar feeling, if you generalize the nocturnal leg cramp sensation to your > > whole pelvis and abdomen. > My wife suffered 12 hours with induced labor before she relented and > had an epidural. Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly midwife told me I was "not in enough pain" so meds weren't indicated. I had chosen the birth center because the midwives convinced me I'd have more control there than in the hospital. I don't expect to have another baby, but if I do, I'll go to a hospital where I'll at least have some control over whether or not I get pain meds. ~~Patti > Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for > narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ~~Patti This was of course in the hospital. She was induced because she was late, and the placenta was degenerating. About 5 hrs after the first epidural and after all that pain, our daughter was delivered by c-section anyway. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for > > narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > About 5 hrs after the first epidural and after all that pain, our > daughter was delivered by c-section anyway. Mmmm. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever heard a happy labor story. They nearly all suck. They're always so sappy and gleeful on TV, but in real life it's a crisis from start to finish, and then you take the baby home and you don't get to sleep much for months. Why *do* people have babies? (Actually now he's 7 and so delightful. He's reasonable and considerate and a pleasure to be with. I was so often *sure* I was a rotten mother. Anyway, when he was 2, strangers at the grocery store always seemed to think so.) How old is your little one? ~~Patti >>>Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for >>>narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > ~~Patti My labour was happy. Yeah, it hurt - not worse than I expected though, just a different sensation. I didn't go to hospital, but stayed home and pushed my little boy out while in a tub of warm water. In no way was it scary or a crisis at all. It didn't suck :) Jo ( Mum to Will, 16 weeks old) > >>>Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for > >>>narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jo ( Mum to Will, 16 weeks old) Congrats! And I probably had it coming. Karma, you know. ;) ~~Patti >>>Ow. I've heard the pitocin contractions are very intense. I begged for >>>narcotics starting at 10:00 p.m. (he was born at 5:30 a.m.). My surly [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > ~~Patti She's nine. This is more like the kind of neighborhood where childless are intimidated by the fertile. Steve Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > >>This was of course in the hospital. She was induced because she was > >>late, and the placenta was degenerating. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > She's nine. This is more like the kind of neighborhood where childless > are intimidated by the fertile. Ah. That must be nice. My corner of NC is John Rosemond Central (as in John Rosemond, Ph.D., king of reactionary parenting). I hate that man. He says psychologists are all frauds (except him of course), and, for example, if your child exhibits behaviors consistent with depression, you should spank him until he stops. You should not play with your 3yo for more than half an hour a day because you need the time to "work on your marriage." http://www.rosemond.com/ > Ah. That must be nice. My corner of NC is John Rosemond Central (as in > John Rosemond, Ph.D., king of reactionary parenting). I hate that man. He [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.rosemond.com/ Overall, I think you're right--the "enlightened" attitudes here in Blue State America are better. But any attitude can be abused. I was pretty annoyed that after childbirth classes with my wife (at St. Vincent's Hospital here in NY) featuring videos of screaming mothers in labor accompanied by tinkling piano music, that after going through all that pain and surgery, my wife voiced an opinion at one point that she felt a little like a failure for failing to be able to see labor through normally and au naturale. I wasn't a big hit at the childbirth classes when I told the instructor (nicely, mind you) that I didn't think my dental patients got any brownie points for not getting novocaine. Her point was that labor was physiological pain, while I dealt with pathological pain. My answer to that was "So?" I granted that every medication had its risks, and that the epidural certainly had its own. This was certainly one advantage of natural labor. Once my wife was given an epidural, they needed to do direct monitoring. After the second epidural, our daughter developed cardiac distress; whether it was due to the epidural I don't know, but I cannot rule it out. In any case, everyone made out OK. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Overall, I think you're right--the "enlightened" attitudes here in Blue > State America are better. But any attitude can be abused. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > rule it out. > In any case, everyone made out OK. Which is all that matters. And I think you're right: It's sort of a theme song for me lately: Both ends of every ideological spectrum appear to be populated with some mighty smug individuals. In misc.kids.pregnancy O'Hush <rumraising@hotmail.com> wrote: : Mmmm. Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever heard a happy labor : story. They nearly all suck. They're always so sappy and gleeful on TV, : but in real life it's a crisis from start to finish, and then you take the : baby home and you don't get to sleep much for months. Hmm. I see that you are posting to misc.health.alternative and sci.med as well as misc.kids.pregnancy. You must be a regular poster on one of those groups, and NOT a regular poster on misc.kids.pregnancy. And why do I say that? Because there are fairly regular postings of "happy labor stories" on misc.kids pregnancy. They are rarely sappy, they often talk about a lot of hard work, but many of them are quite joyful. I suspect that one of the reasons is that you have been exposed mainly to hospital births, and that some of the most satisfying births reported tend to be home, or sometime birthcenter, births. This was certainly the case for my wife's two home births, which were posted, and which you could have read on m.k.p. Also, regarding the sleep question that can often be solved by breastfeeding, co-sleeping, and learning to sleep through the night nursing sessions, another thing which my wife learned to do. Oh well, it takes all kinds, :-) Larry > In misc.kids.pregnancy O'Hush <rumraising@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for my wife's two home births, which were posted, and which you could have > read on m.k.p. Yeah, If I gave a damn, which I don't. I was responding to a crossposted item in sci.med. I'll try to remember to trim headers next time. > Also, regarding the sleep question that can often be solved by breastfeeding, Which I did for nearly four years. > co-sleeping, Which I did for 3.5 years. > and learning to sleep through the night nursing sessions, Which I did for over two years. > another thing which my wife learned to do. > > Oh well, it takes all kinds, :-) I was just thinking that. > > > > "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > My God, you have terrible leg cramps! Yes, they suck. I had them when I was pregnant, and I've seen DH wake up with one, and he looked to be in exquisite pain, pouring sweat by the time it was over. If you'd like to have the experience yourself, avoid foods containing potassium, get plenty of weight-bearing exercise,and get dehydrated. >>>>>"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." >>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > containing potassium, get plenty of weight-bearing exercise,and get > dehydrated. We were visiting my brother in law and his family over Labor Day. One morning his wife asked if he'd awakened us with his screaming (he hadn't). Apparently severe leg cramps. He's fit, 50 years old. Hadn't happened before. This guy is not a complainer--if he was screaming it was pretty bad. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > >>>>>"...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > happened before. This guy is not a complainer--if he was screaming it > was pretty bad. See what I mean? They suck. I had a bout of them recently while on a very-low-carb diet. (It's hard to get enough potassium without fruit, and it's very easy to get dehydrated.) I've heard hypomagnesemia can have the same effect. ...in response to the following comment: >>...the fetal presenting part slid down the curve >> of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non- >> generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my- >> way" impact that Carol Burnett once characterized as being >> "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." > Was that Carol Burnett? I once heard Bill Cosby use >that as his wife's description of what labor feels like. If so, Cosby may have been plagiarizing Burnett. I'm old enough to remember when she made that remark live on her television show back in the '60s (the way I remembered it, she'd said "...forcing it *up* over your head" [emphasis added]). I've checked online, and several sources support the attribution. ------------------------ Whatever it is that government does, sensible Americans would prefer that the government do it to somebody else. This is the idea behind foreign policy. -- P.J. O'Rourke > ...in response to the following comment: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > it *up* over your head" [emphasis added]). I've checked online, > and several sources support the attribution. Cosby may have. I remember him saying, "Take your lip...and pull it ovuh yo heeeeeyyyyd!" Steve > ------------------------ > Whatever it is that government does, sensible Americans > would prefer that the government do it to somebody else. > This is the idea behind foreign policy. > > -- P.J. O'Rourke SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >...in response to the following comment: >>>...the fetal presenting part slid down the curve [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >it *up* over your head" [emphasis added]). I've checked online, >and several sources support the attribution. Oh, for pity's sake. Cosby does use that line in one of his performances, which is available as a movie ("Bill Cosby Himself," I believe is the title). However, he attributes the line to Carol Burnett during the performance. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth >>...in response to the following comment: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > believe is the title). However, he attributes the line to Carol > Burnett during the performance. Thanks. I just happened to hear it on the car radio. I'm sure it's just my memory failing me again. Steve > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote > yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%" [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*, > government maundering about "quality of care" be damned. Whilst I had midwife care for my four deliveries, and I understand that this is perfectly safe for a normal pregnancy and delivery, I have to agree with the Australian doctors who (for perhaps selfish as well as good reasons) are objecting to midwifery-alone centres being set up here. The midwives are furious (naturally), but frankly, no birth is risk-free. If something goes wrong, I want to be in reach of a neonatal specialist unit. And I was. The midwife pelted up the corridor with my son to the unit where they proceeded to save his life. Maybe he would have been ok after an ambulance journey...but maybe not. Cathy > No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated: > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > -- Frederic Bastiat, "Government" (1848) > http://bastiat.org/en/government.html DENTS IN BABIES' SKULLS (AND SJ DOC) SJ Doc, see the very end of this post... Please help stop "the OB guys" (your phrase) from closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30% at your hospital. PREGNANT WOMEN: It is easy to allow your birth canal to OPEN the "extra" up to 30%. See RNs: 'Stitches, episiotomy, and postpartum complications' (Maternal care learning needs) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3725 LADIES: By allowing your birth canal to open the "extra" up to 30%, you might just avoid an unnecessary episiotomy or c-section... > On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:42:57 GMT, Todd Gastaldo wrote > yet again about "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > by this repeated goddam expression "closing birth canals the > 'extra' up to 30%," anyway? SJ Doc, When I use what you call the "repeated goddamn expression" "closing birth canals the 'extra' up to 30%" - I usually mention THE FOUR OB LIES - along with a URL where one can read them... Just in case you missed them... Here are THE FOUR OB LIES... OB LIE #1. After MASSIVE change in the AP pelvic outlet diameter was clinically demonstrated in 1911 and radiographically demonstrated in 1957, the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that pelvic diamaters DON'T CHANGE at delivery. OB LIE #2. After Ohlsen pointed out in 1973 that pelvic diameters DO change - the authors of Williams Obstetrics began erroneously claiming that their most frequent delivery position - dorsal - widens the outlet. OB LIE #3. After I pointed out in 1992 that dorsal CLOSES - and so does semisitting [Gastaldo. Birth. 1992;19(4):230-1] - the authors of Williams Obstetrics - put the correct biomechanics in their 1993 edition - but kept in their text (in the same paragraph!) - the dorsal widens bald lie that first called my attention to their text... OB LIE #4. OBs are actually KEEPING birth canals closed when babies get stuck - claiming they are doing everything to allow the birth canal open maximally - which is an indirect admission that they know they are routinely closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30%. (See the ACOG Shoulder Dystocia video. Note also: forceps and vacuum births are performed with the mother in lithotomy, closing her birth canal the "extra" up to 30%.) > On those few occasions when > I had to sit there and get amniotic fluid all over my shoes in > the course of a normal spontaneous (or pitocin induced) > vaginal delivery, I am sorry you got amniotic fluid all over your shoes; but sounds like - as is customary for MDs - you had the woman semisitting or dorsal - closing her birth canal the "extra" up to 30%. Uteri can usually force babies through pelvic outlets closed the "extra" up to 30% - esp. if they are chemically whipped with pitocin to contract violently, as in, > the fetal presenting part slid down the curve > of Carus like a goddam battering ram, shoving past the non- > generative contents of the pelvis with a "get-the-hell-outta-my- > way" impact... The fetal presenting part is usually the cranium - and when it's not the presenting part - there is the breech danger of "trapped after-coming head"... The fetal cranium is quite compressible/"mouldable" - and with the brain inside - well - I am concerned about the estimated 4.6% of brain bleeds in "healthy" term neonates. I am also concerned about the unexplained lesser motor and and perceptual deficits discovered later. There are also unexplained baby paralyses and unexplained baby deaths - Australian obstetrician Norman Beischer, MD once guessed that 10 to 15% of stillbirths were just fine right before delivery. Also noteworthy: In many births the fetal presenting part does NOT "slid[e] down the curve of Carus like a goddamn battering ram"... In many births, there is failure to progress "due to cephalopelvic disproportion" obstetricians say - as they CAUSE cephalopelvic disproportion by keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30%. Further regarding failure to progress - it is possible that there is NEUROLOGIC inhibition of delivery when semisitting or dorsal because the mother is on her sacrum being made to torque her sacroiliac joints exactly the opposite direction they need to go to allow the birth canal to open the "extra" up to 30%. > that Carol Burnett once characterized as being > "...like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head." Pretty funny. > If that canal was anything *but* open, how the hell did I > manage to get my Size-8½-gloved hand into the uterus... If the woman was on her back or semisitting, she was on her sacrum - you had her closing her birth canal up to 30%. The grisly birth-canal-closing biomechanics are simple. See The Four OB Lies above. You likely did not make a fist and try to shove it in. More likely, you tried to let your hand become as slim as possible. The baby's skull is FORCED to become as slim as possible - which may explain some of the unexplained brain bleeds and dents (see the very end of the post). You mentioned the Curve of Carus. There is also the Waste Space of Morris - the baby's skull is forced down the ischial rami because of the pubic arch - probably nature's way of protecting the mother's urogenital apparatus. Williams Obstetrics used to state that sometimes the pubic arch is so narrow the baby's head is forced WAY down - forced to rotate around a line joining the ischial tuberosities, as in this quote from the 2001 edition: "In obstructed labor caused by a narrowing of the...pelvic outlet, the prognosis for vaginal delivery often depends on the length of the posterior sagittal diameter of the pelvic outlet (p. 56)...The posterior triangle [of the pelvic outlet]...is limited at its apex by the tip of the last sacral vertebra (not the coccyx) (p. 437)...With increasing narrowing of the pubic arch, the occiput cannot emerge directly beneath the symphysis pubis but is forced increasingly farther down...the ischiopubic rami. In extreme cases, the head must rotate around a line joining the ischial tuberosities [!] (p. 438)..." The pubic arch forcing the fetal head down the ischial rami is likely what Harvard obstetrician AB Emmons, MD was alluding to when he wrote: "[M]oving backward of the tip of the sacrum...enlarges the available space not merely directly in proportion to the distance backward, but more nearly by the square of that distance." [Emmons, AB. A study of the variations in the female pelvis, based on observations made on 217 specimens of the American Indian squaw. Biometrika 1913; 9:34-47.] The following was added to Williams Obstetrics at my request (though the authors left in their text - in the same paragraph (!) the "dorsal widens" bald lie that first called my attention to their text)... "It should be noted...that the increase in the diameter of the pelvic outlet occurs **only** if the sacrum is allowed to rotate posteriorly, that is, only if the sacrum is not forced anteriorly by the weight of the maternal pelvis against the delivery table or bed." [Cunningham, MacDonald, Leveno, Gant and Gilstrap, Williams Obstetrics Appleton-Lange 1993:285, **italics in original] BTW, here is the reference for my 30% figure... "[T]he outlet increases with moulding by approximately 20-30 per cent." [Russell JGB. Moulding of the pelvic outlet. J Obstet Gynaec Brit Cwlth 1969;76:817-20. NOTE: In 1973, Ohlsen verified Russell's 20% figure on Borell and Fernstrom's 1957 intrapartum x-rays. See: http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/part2ftc.html] NOTE: JGB Russell demonstrated a MINOR (transverse) sacroiliac motion then pretended his minor sacroiliac motion was more important that the MAJOR (sagittal) sacral tip motion demonstrated radiographically by Borell and Fernstrom. For details, see http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/part2ftc.html. Also noteworthy: Russell promoted placing women semisitting/closing birth canals - even as he reported the "20-30 per cent" figure - after which the authors of Williams Obstetrics attributed to Russell the simple biomechanic fact (quoted above) that I had called to their attention. At the very least, they should have quoted the original author of Williams Obstetrics who DEMONSTRATED the simple biomechanics clinically - way back in 1911! > on > certain rare and scrotum-tightening occasions to seek out > and gently remove retained placental cotyledons that were > responsible for excessive third stage bleeding? I am sorry your scrotum tightened. If some of the babies whose births you have attended were boys, it is possible that their scrotums tightened when you forced them through birth canals senselessly closed up to 30%. I am sure you never pulled on the umbilical cord to speed up third stage - but my understanding is that some MDs have done this and it can cause "retained placental cotyledons" and "excessive third stage bleeding." > Are you referring to all the c-sections that the OB guys perform > so promiscuously, "The OB guys" are "promiscuously" closing birth canals up to 30% and KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck. It's massive criminal negligence. See the Four OB Lies above. > or are you talking about episiotomy repair? "The OB guys" are slicing vaginas en masse (routine episiotomy) - surgically/fraudulently inferring they are doing everything possible to open birth canals - even as they close birth canals the "extra" up to 30%. Shiono et al. at NIH demonstrated in 1991 that episiotomized women suffer 50 times MORE severe tears clear to the anus than women who are not episiotomized. Yet "the OB guys" are STILL (in 2005) promoting the fraud that their episiotomies are preventing severe tears clear to the anus. See RNs: 'Stitches, episiotomy, and postpartum complications' (Maternal care learning needs) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3725 > And what the hell is with this perpetual "extra" in quotation > marks? If there's any sense in this expression, it's sailing *way* > the hellangone past anything I ever read or heard in school or in > practice over the course of a fun-filled and occasionally terrifying > life in the ranks of Them Wot Got Betadyne Stains on Their > Sweatsocks. Yes, in medical school they are still teaching lies. See the Four OB Lies above. I put the word "extra" in quotes because obstetricians fraudulently behave as if the room is "extra". When Williams Obstetrics co-author Norman F. Gant, MD called me to thank me for notifying his publisher (then Appleton-Lange) that he was promoting closing birth canals - he remarked that "most women don't need the extra room." > I know all about how the politically connected medicos You are a perhaps-not-so-innocent beneficiary of the political connections of organized medicine. > have > done every damned thing they can to restrict patient access > to health care providers who charge lower fees for their services > than licensed physicians do, including nurse practitioners, physi- > cian assistants, and nurse midwives. As I indicated, in the California Supreme Court's 1974 Bowland decision, nurse-midwives (and abortion) became a political mechanism to stomp homebirth midwives - both nurse and non-nurse. > It's the same with lawyers > and their hatred for paralegals providing "boilerplate" legal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > create or preserve an oligopoly. That's what licensing is *for*, > government maundering about "quality of care" be damned. Again, you are a beneficiary. > No less an authority than Nobel laureate Milton Friedman stated: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > customers as the primary motive behind their determined efforts > to get legal power to decide who may be a plumber." Yep. > Not that I agree much with the socialist sucking-up of George > Bernard Shaw, but - like the proverbial stopped clock being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No doubt the same may be said of all professions. They are all > conspiracies against the laity." Keeping in mind your "scientific" medical religion's penchant for senseless infant penis and adult vagina slicing... I like this quote from Shaw: "That any sane nation, having observed that you could provide for the supply of bread by giving bakers a pecuniary interest in baking for you, should go on to give a surgeon a pecuniary interest in cutting off your leg, is enough to make one despair of political humanity." --George Bernard Shaw, introduction to "The Doctor's Dilemma" I also like this one: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw > Politics aside, LOL! It's ALL politics! >what is it that's getting your freak on about >> obstetricians...OBVIOUSLY ILLEGALLY severing >> umbilical cords by clamping/cutting immediately, > f'chrissake? It's just that I don't think babies should be asphyxiated and made to breathe through their lungs before they are ready - or robbed of up to 50% of their blood volume. See Cord clamping baby asphyxiation: Pediatrician not cheering so loud now... http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3896 I will always have "my freak on" as long as your religion is harming babies. My religion - chiropractic - is just as religious BTW - but far less harmful. In this regard to this latter point, it is sordidly FUNNY to see MDs shouting warnings about chiros GENTLY adjusting babies' spines all the while remaining silent about the most prolific manipulators of babies' spines - MD-obstetricians - GRUESOMELY manipulating most babies' spines - sometimes pulling so hard they rip spinal nerves out of tiny spinal cords. ALL spinal manipulation is gruesome with the birth canal closed the "extra" up to 30%. > And (yet again) what d'you mean by >> ...closing birth canals the "extra" up to 30% > so repeatedly that you seem to have a keyboard macro > configured to do the job for you? See the Four OB Lies above. > Is there some kind of > federal statute (reflected in some Title of the U.S. Code > of Federal Regulations) by which the criminality of closing > an umbilical clamp at a particular moment has been estab- > lished? I don't know about federal law. State law though is pretty clear. The common law doctrine of informed consent indicates that even a good medical procedure performed without informed consent is a battery. The battery is pretty obvious. Here again (in case you missed it) is Dr. Morley's temporary baby asphxiation experiment: "[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The [fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb." http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm I doubt very much that obstetricians trying this grisly baby asphyxiation experiment are obtaining informed consent first... PREGNANT WOMEN: To make sure your baby gets the "extra" up to 50% of blood volume, do not let the obstetrician or midwife clamp your baby's umbilical cord until it has stopped pulsating and your baby is pink and breathing and not in need of resuscitation. Talk to your obstetrician or midwife today. > As for.... >> Chiropractors used to be trained to deliver babies - above [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I should sure as hell think so. Ever think that maybe the > plaintiff's bar has something to do about that? I am pretty sure it is political medicine's fault. As soon as people start realizing how badly/criminally medicine has mucked up birth, I think there will be a resurgence of homebirth midwifery. We will then have the best of both worlds available to women - true choice. (If organized medicine had not anti-scientifically/anti-competitively hogged up all "the clinical material" I am sure c-section would not be as safe as it is today - so there is an upside to organized medicine's "scientific" hoggish greed.) > I knew a > GP down in Cumberland County (probably retired by now) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in the present union. The lawyers would be on the poor > bastard like barracudas on a boatload of refugees. You may be referring to the obstetricians' fraudulent "malpractice liability insurance crisis" hoax. There is a good book about it, written by a lawyer/MD, Wachsman... The obstetric hoax was coupled in California with the largest obstetric malpractice liability insurer insisting at the legislature with the CMA that obstetricians had to "supervise" homebirth midwives (without being present). After the midwifery licensing law was passed - surprise, surprise - there weren't any physician supervisors to be found - because malpractice liability insurers wouldn't let them supervise those risky homebirths. The kicker was that PHYSICIANS owned the largest insurer - LOL! And the former judge who served as the lobbiest admitted in a meeting of the Medical Board that the liability insurer for whom he was lobbying had no data on risk of homebirth! It was slick politics. >> I recently talked to an old EMT who used to pray for >> maternity transports. > > Ah, yes. That's symptomatic of something the EMT-P guys > call the "Jolly Volly Syndrome." I don't understand the phrase, "Jolly Volly Syndrome." > We've got a bit of that in > the volunteer ambulance corps hitherabouts. "Good Sam- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > necessary to get Mom to the nearest Emergency Department > rather than break out the L&D kit in the back of the truck. Understandable that they would document that. > And you say that... >> He was astonished to learn that he had been closing birth [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anybody could keep spouting that phrase without specifying > just what the hell it means, too. Hopefully you now know "just what the hell it means, too." > And you're not familiar with Mencken's "Chiropractic" essay? > The damned thing has been continuously in print (in Mencken's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > essay before? You're a *chiropractor* and this little bit of prose > is new to you? Yeesh! |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message