Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005
Quack busting, money on the table
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outsor@citynet.net - 10 Sep 2005 18:01 GMT let's use the homopathetic truth claims and do a test as an example of the truth claims of the quack busters. The latter say that there is no evidence showing that the homopathetic "drugs" are effective as claimed. Here is a prize of $1000000 for anyone showing that homopathetic "drugs" are effective and do as claimed. One may read the rules here:
" One Million Dollar Challenge"
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
It will be intresting to see which one of the now familiar excuses for not doing the test will be used. I have one in mind that fits the mindset of the homopathetic choir, let's see if they use it as the first attempt as such an excuse.
Dan - 10 Sep 2005 20:24 GMT Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose?
Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money?
outsor@citynet.net - 10 Sep 2005 20:08 GMT "Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose?"
Yes, as I recall the procedure for getting a formal proof of same from the 3rd party holding the prize is found on the same link.
HCN - 10 Sep 2005 20:41 GMT > Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose? > > Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? Actually, yes... these guys found it, you can go through similar machinations to check it yourself: http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html
Also, you do not even have to prove it works. All you have to do is be able to distinguish between unlabeled bottles which is the homeopathic remedy and which is just the plain solvent (or sugar pills).
Dan - 11 Sep 2005 03:58 GMT I just went to your link and I can't find anything about Randi or $1,000,000. As proof I want a PDF of a bank statement or something tangible, not just a link to some unknown blog. Proof!!!!!!!!!!!
Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose?
> Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? Actually, yes... these guys found it, you can go through similar machinations to check it yourself: http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html
Also, you do not even have to prove it works. All you have to do is be able to distinguish between unlabeled bottles which is the homeopathic remedy and which is just the plain solvent (or sugar pills).
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 06:54 GMT ...> Actually, yes... these guys found it, you can go through similar
> machinations to check it yourself: > http://www.twopercentco.com/rants/allison_dubois_week.html ..
Read the whole thing... in one page they show exactly how to get the information. It takes a bit because it is not a static webpage.
Peter Bowditch - 11 Sep 2005 08:32 GMT >Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose? > >Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? Here we go again. "I won't take the test because there is no money".
What a laugh.
Do it. Prove it. Sue if you don't get the money. Easy.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Dan - 11 Sep 2005 17:35 GMT >Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? Here we go again. "I won't take the test because there is no money". What a laugh.
How about if the guy has no money. If I sue I get nothing. Peter you have no idea how life works. Reality = In November a guy ran me over with a car. The guy has no insurance, I have no insurance. I hired a Lawyer who did nothing because he knew he would make no money. I could sue both my Lawyer and the guy who ran me over. But it would cost more time and money then I would make. My medical bills are $ 17,000 US. I'm unable to find another Lawyer who would take my case on contigency.
Once again Peter you prove you are just another clueless a.s who lives in Candyland.
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 18:01 GMT > >Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? > Here we go again. "I won't take the test because there is no money". > What a laugh. > > How about if the guy has no money. If I sue I get nothing. Peter you > have no idea how life works. His foundation has to file publicly, it DOES have money.
Reality = In November a guy ran me over
> with a car. The guy has no insurance, I have no insurance. I hired a > Lawyer who did nothing because he knew he would make no money. I could > sue both my Lawyer and the guy who ran me over. But it would cost more > time and money then I would make. My medical bills are $ 17,000 US. > I'm unable to find another Lawyer who would take my case on contigency. So sorry about that. In this state we are required to have insurance to drive a car.
> Once again Peter you prove you are just another clueless a.s who lives > in Candyland. Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to prove homeopathy works. They paid for Benveniste's work. I'm sure they would appreciate that.
Happy Dog - 11 Sep 2005 22:17 GMT "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
> Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to prove > homeopathy works. They paid for Benveniste's work. I'm sure they would > appreciate that. They did, at first. But when he started making testable claims, and offering to have them publically tested, they dropped him like a hot potato. They're not stupid.
moo
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 23:35 GMT > "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message >> Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to prove [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > offering to have them publically tested, they dropped him like a hot > potato. They're not stupid. So they may be too smart to take Dan's word that he can prove homeopathy works.
> moo Happy Dog - 12 Sep 2005 00:08 GMT >> "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message >>> Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So they may be too smart to take Dan's word that he can prove homeopathy > works. Benveniste was a sad case. I suspect that Boiron and others selling billions in Homeopathic remedies want no part of people who claim to be able to test them in a conclusive way. They know what will happen. And they have too much at stake.
moo
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 23:48 GMT > "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message >> Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to prove [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > moo Also, I noticed that his thing is that homepathy is an alternative to "Big Pharma"... I wanted to point out that there were companies of the "Big Pharma" type that made homeopathic remedies (though without all those annoying "research" expenses). I think I saw an item months ago that a UK homeopathy company was going to use water from the Thames to make some kind of remedy, or something similarly wacky.
Dan - 12 Sep 2005 02:24 GMT > Once again Peter you prove you are just another clueless a.s who lives > in Candyland. Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to prove homeopathy works. They paid for Benveniste's work. I'm sure they would appreciate that.
----You want to write about a waste of money. Here's what I got for my $17,000. A ride for less than 1/2 a mile in an Amblance $750; 12 staples in my head $ 15,000; I got drug tested even though the crash wasn't my fault $ 250; $ 1000 pain drugs. + $ 35 for a writing script for a $ 50 bottle of generic vicodin.
sh.t if I would have know it was going to be $17,000 I would have road my bicycle to the local to the nearest clinic and got all that sh.t done for under $ 400. That's how much my bill was to get 12 stitches in my forearm 2 months ago.
P.S. In California people just loose their licence if they drive w/o insurance. BFD, my life's f.cked and the other guy just has to ride the bus for a while.
And you guys think alt med is a racket. Big deal, a homeopathic med costs $ 5 per remedy. The bottle lasts at least for a month. Wow a wopping $ 5/ month for something that may help. Vs. $ 100 per month for some toxic drug.
I don't trust Randi; show me proof!
HCN - 12 Sep 2005 03:13 GMT >> Once again Peter you prove you are just another clueless a.s who lives >> in Candyland. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > done for under $ 400. That's how much my bill was to get 12 stitches > in my forearm 2 months ago. This has nothing to with Boiron making money just like a Big Pharma on homeopathy without the bother of doing any research.
It has everything to do with you not spending the $100 per month on auto insurance (and that is on the high side... though drivers in states without mandatory auto insurance do tend to pay higher rates). Our insurance company reduced our rates as students when we got better grades, and paid on time -- and as poor students it was monthly (until we got real jobs and started to pay twice a year). Also many universities have affordable health insurance for students... you may need to check into that.
> P.S. In California people just loose their licence if they drive w/o > insurance. BFD, my life's f.cked and the other guy just has to ride [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > wopping $ 5/ month for something that may help. Vs. $ 100 per month > for some toxic drug. The funny thing is that the only thing homeopathy is even legally good for are for SELF-limiting conditions. Take it while you have a cold and you are better in 10 days instead of 1 1/2 weeks.
> I don't trust Randi; show me proof! Dan - 12 Sep 2005 12:40 GMT I don't own a car. I refuse to burn petrol and be hostage to the Middle East.
I was riding a bicycle and got run over by a car, broke 3 ribs, split my head opened and had neck, back and hip problems.
The other guy had no insurance and the hospital performed a bunch of unnessary tests on me adding an extra $ 15,000 to my bill.
Rich - 12 Sep 2005 14:07 GMT >I don't own a car. I refuse to burn petrol and be hostage to the > Middle East. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The other guy had no insurance and the hospital performed a bunch of > unnessary tests on me adding an extra $ 15,000 to my bill. Let's see. . .I'll bet those "unnessary" tests included a CT study of your head, another CT of your neck, x-rays of your chest (ribs), lumbar spine, sacrum, and pelvis, a complete blood count, a urinalysis, and an EKG. You also got a diphtheria/tetanus immunization, had your scalp wound irrigated and repaired, had your abrasions cleansed and dressed, and were given morphine and lorazepam and a prescription for a narcotic analgesic. Even all that shouldn't have added up to $17,000, but in this litigous society it would be difficult to make a case for anything on that list being unnecessary except possibly the lorazepam (which you call "Adavan"). The fact that you were given Ativan suggests to me that you were "agitated" which is a medical term meaning "a pain in the a.s."
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Happy Dog - 12 Sep 2005 03:14 GMT >> Once again Peter you prove you are just another clueless a.s who lives >> in Candyland.
> Try writing Boiron... I'm sure they would give you lots of money to > prove homeopathy works. They paid for Benveniste's work. I'm sure they > would appreciate that. They wouldn't. I think they summarily dumped Benveniste when he started making testable claims that would show conclusively whether water has a "memory". They know what would happen and they wanted no part of it. Benveniste died a lonely old crackpot. He
> And you guys think alt med is a racket. Big deal, a homeopathic med > costs $ 5 per remedy. The bottle lasts at least for a month. Wow a > wopping $ 5/ month for something that may help. Vs. $ 100 per month > for some toxic drug. So it doesn't matter if the claims are bogus?
> I don't trust Randi; show me proof! Of what?
moo
Dan - 12 Sep 2005 12:43 GMT let's use the homopathetic truth claims and do a test as an example of the truth claims of the quack busters. The latter say that there is no evidence showing that the homopathetic "drugs" are effective as claimed. Here is a prize of $1000000 for anyone showing that homopathetic "drugs" are effective and do as claimed. One may read the rules here:
" One Million Dollar Challenge"
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
It will be intresting to see which one of the now familiar excuses for not doing the test will be used. I have one in mind that fits the mindset of the homopathetic choir, let's see if they use it as the first attempt as such an excuse.
So it doesn't matter if the claims are bogus?
> I don't trust Randi; show me proof! Randi shows on proof of having $1M to loose.
Rich - 12 Sep 2005 14:14 GMT > let's use the homopathetic truth claims and do a test as an example of > the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Randi shows on proof of having $1M to loose. Here's how Randi answers your doubts:
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#3.2
3.1. Does the prize money really exist?
The short answer: Yes.
The medium-length answer: The money is held in the form of immediately negotiable bonds held by Goldman Sachs, a highly respected investment firm. Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Goldman Sachs.
The long answer: The JREF is a 'tax exempt' organization, so they are required by law to have a level of financial transparency. That means that the public can request things like an annual report and copies of JREF's 990 (the tax return non-profits file). Go to http://atgdata.fdncenter.org/990search/search.php to look up JREF's 990. Contained within these types of documents is enough information to verify that the organization does indeed have special assets in a reserved account to cover the prize, should it ever be won. The contract between the claimant and JREF is binding enough that the JREF must pay the prize if someone wins it. As a savvy applicant, all you need to do is verify that the organization has the funds to cover the prize. Also, if JREF were not able to hold up its end of the bargain, the IRS would investigate and pull the JREF's tax exempt status. It would mean severe penalties for the JREF, and Randi himself would also be personally liable and subject to potential incarceration. Rest assured: the money is there [8].
Long answer, continued: The JREF prize fund is maintained in a way that is similar to an endowment fund. Non-profits often create reserves of assets called endowments to build up enough money to take care of the organization in the case of bad financial times, or to save up money for a project down the road, like building a new facility or starting a large new program that would require a lot of capital. Endowment funds are held separately from the other money coming in and out of an organization. For example, The JREF prize money is being held separately from the general operating funds of the organization. This prevents the JREF from accidentally spending the prize money. It is never a good idea to just let large sums of money sit in a savings account for years and years, so most non-profits invest their endowment funds. The way they invest it is really not important. JREF invests in bonds, which is fine. If a claimant wins the prize, it must be awarded within ten days, as per the Challenge rules and the legally binding contract you entered into when you signed the application.
I know you are going to ask, "What if the bonds cannot be easily liquidated?" If the JREF did not pay a winning claimant in a reasonable amount of time, they would be open to a lawsuit for breach of contract. The claimant will be paid. The JREF states that the funds are held in immediately negotiable bonds so that a claimant can feel at ease about the ability of the JREF to pay. The fact that the JREF will do so is going above and beyond the requirements of the law and the generally accepted practices of good, responsible non-profits. It is an enormous act of good faith on JREF's part [9]. The million dollars exists. Arguments to the contrary are utterly pointless, and they will not be entertained by the JREF.
3.2. That's interesting evidence, but I still don't believe that the money exists.
It's important to realize that if at this point you still doubt that the money exists, your doubt is in the entire American bond system in general and Goldman Sachs specifically, and not with the JREF. There is really not any more evidence the JREF can provide you. For concerns regarding Goldman Sachs, please inquire at their Web site, http://www.gs.com/.
Should you remain unconvinced of the existence of the prize funds, you are free to choose not to apply. The JREF will under no circumstances go beyond the aforementioned measures in providing proof of the prize funds' existence. As stated clearly in the Challenge rules, "The JREF will not cater to such vanities."
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
outsor@citynet.net - 12 Sep 2005 20:07 GMT "So it doesn't matter if the claims are bogus?"
No, randi welcomes all people who think homopathetic, esp, astrology, dubious medical devices, remote viewing, and many more claims to try for the prize. Homopathetic truth claims is a proud menber of that august group who get to win the prize.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 12 Sep 2005 03:54 GMT > ----You want to write about a waste of money. Here's what I got for my > $17,000. A ride for less than 1/2 a mile in an Amblance $750; 12 > staples in my head $ 15,000; I got drug tested even though the crash > wasn't my fault $ 250; $ 1000 pain drugs. + $ 35 for a writing script > for a $ 50 bottle of generic vicodin. They charged you $15,000 for 12 staples in the scalp? No CT, even?
What was the $1000 pain drug??
Your experience was painful to even read about. Financially painful. You must realize you're paying for a lot of free-riders. One more argument in favor of national health insurance. And it pains me to say THAT.
Jesus, what California hospital did this to you? You should really name them and cause them some embarrassment.
SBH
Dan - 12 Sep 2005 12:47 GMT ----You want to write about a waste of money. Here's what I got for my
> $17,000. A ride for less than 1/2 a mile in an Amblance $750; 12 > staples in my head $ 15,000; I got drug tested even though the crash > wasn't my fault $ 250; $ 1000 pain drugs. + $ 35 for a writing script > for a $ 50 bottle of generic vicodin. They charged you $15,000 for 12 staples in the scalp? No CT, even?
What was the $1000 pain drug??
Your experience was painful to even read about. Financially painful. You must realize you're paying for a lot of free-riders. One more argument in favor of national health insurance. And it pains me to say
THAT.
Jesus, what California hospital did this to you? You should really name
them and cause them some embarrassment.
I got sent to Sharp Memorial in San Diego. They gave me some Morphine and Adavan stitched me up and sent me off. I was there for less than 1 hour. I am waiting to see if they will take me as a charity case but their Lawyers are delaying my claim.
Sharp collects money for charity but doesn't want to give it out.
Rich - 12 Sep 2005 14:17 GMT > ----You want to write about a waste of money. Here's what I got for my > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and Adavan stitched me up and sent me off. I was there for less than 1 > hour. So which was it? They stitched you up and sent you off, or they padded your bill with a bunch of "unessary" tests? You can't have it both ways.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Happy Dog - 11 Sep 2005 22:16 GMT "Dan" <dgillila@cox.net> wrote in message news:1126456514.
> >Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? > Here we go again. "I won't take the test because there is no money". > What a laugh. > > How about if the guy has no money. He does. Educate yourself:
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#3.1
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html
moo
Dan - 12 Sep 2005 12:52 GMT Dan" <dgill...@cox.net> wrote in message news:1126456514.
> >Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? > Here we go again. "I won't take the test because there is no money". > What a laugh.
> How about if the guy has no money. He does. Educate yourself:
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#3.1
http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html
I clicked on http://atgdata.fdncenter.org/990search/search.php And I get The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings.
Mr-Natural-Health - 11 Sep 2005 09:54 GMT > Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose? > > Being the skeptic that I am; how can I believe Randi has the money? Randi strikes me as a mental case who thinks that he is Harry Houdini. Maybe somebody should tell him that magicians are nothing but professional frauds? Anybody can offer to pay money fraudulently. Is this the best that the science people can come up with? Randi is a pathetic representative more fruity than homeopathy.
Rich - 11 Sep 2005 15:04 GMT >> Is there any proof Randi has the $1 million to loose? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Maybe somebody should tell him that magicians are nothing but > professional frauds? No, magicians are not professional frauds. They are showmen. Yes, they decieve their audiences to entertain them, but the nature of the implied contract is such that the magician does not represent himself as REALLY able to make the rabbit appear out of thin air or able to saw the woman in half and restore her, etc. Such representation would be indeed fraudulent. (A few magicians, like Uri Gellar, DO commit this kind of fraud, and are held in contempt by people like Randi. Although I doubt seriously that Randi "thinks that he is Harry Houdini", certainly he is carrying on Houdini's tradition of exposing purveyers of "paranormal" bullshit.
> Anybody can offer to pay money fraudulently. What's fraudulent about offering a million bucks?
> Is > this the best that the science people can come up with? Randi is a > pathetic representative more fruity than homeopathy. "The science people" did not "come up with" Randi. Randi entered the quackbusting field on his own. A magician is uniquely qualified to do this kind of investigation, because magicians are familiar with all the methods of deception. Scientists are as easily "fooled" by "magic tricks" as anyone.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Mr-Natural-Health - 11 Sep 2005 17:07 GMT > > Anybody can offer to pay money fraudulently. > > What's fraudulent about offering a million bucks? For one, you cannot logically prove a negative statement.
Just thought that this scientist want-a-bee who hides behind a magician who thinks that he is Houdini might want to know.
Boy are you pathetic!
Just my opinion, but I have yet to have ever been proved wrong.
Rich - 12 Sep 2005 07:32 GMT >> > Anybody can offer to pay money fraudulently. >> >> What's fraudulent about offering a million bucks? > > For one, you cannot logically prove a negative statement. Accusing someone of fraud is not an unprovable negative statement. Either Randi is a fraud or he is not (he's not). You made the statement, YOU prove it.
> Just thought that this scientist want-a-bee who hides behind a magician > who thinks that he is Houdini might want to know. I'm not scientist, nor a "want-a-bee" nor am I hiding behind anyone. What I "want to know" is how you came to the conclusion that Randi "thinks that he is Houdini" or that he is a fraud.
> Boy are you pathetic! Save your pathos. I don't need it.
> Just my opinion, but I have yet to have ever been proved wrong. Your opinions are as worthless as your website.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Revelation - 11 Sep 2005 00:36 GMT > let's use the homopathetic truth claims and do a test as an example of the > truth claims of the quack busters. The latter say that there is no [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the homopathetic choir, let's see if they use it as the first attempt as > such an excuse. This man is deception manifested in the flesh. It boosts his credibility when he exposes the fakes and decreases the credibility of natural remedies simultaneously. Science in essence is the labeling of unexplained or unknown things. Most of this labeling takes place at the hand of *proof* (hypothesis, theories, studies, etc.) that do not exist, can not be proven themselves or are flawed. We call this "fact" or "proof" and give these people too much credit.
While he's at it he should extend the same challenge to pharmaceutical companies. They're the ones jacking us up with their *medications* and then pulling them off the market after they have made billions and so many people have been killed. All of these medications were developed with *science* and most of them do more harm than good. You know, help the symptoms of 1 issue and cause 20 more.
What he's offering is almost impossible to win and he's brilliant enough to know that. He will always find a way to discredit, transfer the credit or explain away something that just works or just is. He functions with an ulterior motive and you can see it in his eyes if you look hard enough. I believe his motivation is false. He is motivated by money, fame and intellectual esteem. Because of this, someone will prove him wrong soon and win the prize. Remember you heard it here first.
It seems to me that science has been doing more harm than good, but that's what we get for relying on man and labs and their hunger for revenue. We can thank science for creating super viruses that are perched and waiting to devour the masses of mankind with awesome speed. I'll keep my faith in natural solutions that have worked effectively for centuries, especially since we just happen to be natural beings. -- Regards,
Revelation ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in City of Angels
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 00:45 GMT ...
snip... Science in essence is the labeling of
> unexplained or unknown things. Most of this labeling takes place at the > hand of *proof* (hypothesis, theories, studies, etc.) that do not exist, > can not be proven themselves or are flawed. We call this "fact" or "proof" > and give these people too much credit. This has got to be one of the silliest "definitions" of science I have seen in a long time.
..snip of unsubstantiated rant of a magician..
> It seems to me that science has been doing more harm than good, but that's > what we get for relying on man and labs and their hunger for revenue. We > can thank science for creating super viruses that are perched and waiting > to devour the masses of mankind with awesome speed. So is that your concise explanation of the 1918 Influenza Pandemic?
> I'll keep my faith in natural solutions that have worked effectively for > centuries, especially since we just happen to be natural beings. Then, please, for the sake that is your sanity STAY AWAY from anything which may have used any form of science in its creation! That means that you shall now need to step away from the computer right now, and never go near it again.
> -- > Regards, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in > City of Angels Revelation - 11 Sep 2005 01:38 GMT > ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > This has got to be one of the silliest "definitions" of science I have seen > in a long time. For the sarcastic idiots that missed the context of the discussion, I think I should have been clear by saying the sciences that deal mostly with the explanation and manipulation of biological and other natural phenomenon. People who try to figure out and explain what just is and has been. The people who try to correct everything unexplained, wrong with life and the planet with experimentation and so-called discovery. The people who try to make things better and end up making things worse because we are fallible and limited in our arrogant knowledge. Not the scientists who have contributed to the development of personal computers and iPods but more so the people who will fuse this type of technology with mankind. Twit. Look at the Stepford Wives. We're not too far off with this whole robot and AI mentality.
> ..snip of unsubstantiated rant of a magician.. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So is that your concise explanation of the 1918 Influenza Pandemic? Of course not, but AIDS, Ebola, the new mutated Influenza, and many other new disease strains caused by our unnecessary prescription of antibiotics. They show the shows on TV all the time.
> > I'll keep my faith in natural solutions that have worked effectively for > > centuries, especially since we just happen to be natural beings. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in > > City of Angels -- Regards,
Revelation ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in City of Angels
HCN - 11 Sep 2005 02:39 GMT > "HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message ...>> > It seems to me that science has been doing more harm than good, but that's
>> > what we get for relying on man and labs and their hunger for revenue. >> > We [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > new disease strains caused by our unnecessary prescription of antibiotics. > They show the shows on TV all the time. What do viruses have to do with the overuse of antibiotics?
(try to use real references, not the use of TV)
>> > I'll keep my faith in natural solutions that have worked effectively >> > for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> near >> it again. ...
You really need to stay away from all electronics. You never know what evil those spinning electrons will cause. Especially if you get your science information from watching television.
Rich - 11 Sep 2005 01:38 GMT >> let's use the homopathetic truth claims and do a test as an example of >> the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > remedies simultaneously. Science in essence is the labeling of unexplained > or unknown things. Bullshit! Science is a way of learning the truths about the universe by observing them. The methods of science are designed to prevent our fooling ourselves about what we observe.
> Most of this labeling takes place at the hand of *proof* (hypothesis, > theories, studies, etc.) that do not exist, can not be proven themselves > or are flawed. We call this "fact" or "proof" and give these people too > much credit. Whatever "flaws" there are in science, it is the most remarkably successful endeavor for knowledge in human history. Thanks to scientists, we understand much of the world around us, from tiny quarks to quasars so distant that their rhythmic signals began their journeys across the universe long before the Earth was formed from a cloud of cosmic dust. Your whimper that scientists get "too much credit" is pathetic in light of the mass of knowledge that science has accumulated.
> While he's at it he should extend the same challenge to pharmaceutical > companies. They're the ones jacking us up with their *medications* and > then pulling them off the market after they have made billions and so many > people have been killed. All of these medications were developed with > *science* and most of them do more harm than good. You know, help the > symptoms of 1 issue and cause 20 more. That's a pretty bold statement. Have you any evidence that "most do more harm than good?
> What he's offering is almost impossible to win and he's brilliant enough > to know that. Of course it is, and of course he is. The "paranormal" is bullshit, and that is the whole point.
> He will always find a way to discredit, transfer the credit or explain > away something that just works or just is. Not true. All you have to do to win is explain what you can do, and then DO IT under conditions of observation that ARE AGREED UPON BEFOREHAND. No tricks, no discrediting, no explaining away.
> He functions with an ulterior motive and you can see it in his eyes if you > look hard enough. I believe his motivation is false. He is motivated by > money, fame and intellectual esteem. Because of this, someone will prove > him wrong soon and win the prize. Remember you heard it here first. Believe me, I'll remember.
> It seems to me that science has been doing more harm than good, but that's > what we get for relying on man and labs and their hunger for revenue. Ignorance does more harm than knowledge. Prove that science "does more harm than good".
> We can thank science for creating super viruses that are perched and > waiting to devour the masses of mankind with awesome speed. Science created viruses? That's an interesting theory. Where's your evidence?
> I'll keep my faith in natural solutions that have worked effectively for > centuries, especially since we just happen to be natural beings. Science is the most natural activity of humankind. It's all about observing nature.
> "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in > City of Angels And how can we know what things are true? I prefer the pragmatic look-and-see of science to "faith" in the mythology of the ages.
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--Rich
Recommended websites:
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outsor@citynet.net - 11 Sep 2005 01:28 GMT >> It will be interesting to see which one of the now familiar excuses for >> not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > when he exposes the fakes and decreases the credibility of natural > remedies simultaneously. Bingo, just as predicted, I should have made myself a bet to boot. When having the $1000000 prize put on the table a very common response is to say he is a "bad" person of one kind or another. This goes with the homopathetic choir mindset because anyone showing or suggesting, just like the quack busters, the contrary it is only evil people trying to mash the truth and prevent people from getting real health care. This is an intresting twist on it, he is right some of the time but wrong every time he shows the health quacks not able to demonstrate their truth claims.
Mr-Natural-Health - 11 Sep 2005 10:04 GMT > All of these medications were developed > with *science* and most of them do more harm than good. You know, help > the symptoms of 1 issue and cause 20 more. This was one of the more effective arguments of the Natural Hygiene movement being offered at about the time of the American Civil War, long before Shelton and the FTC arrived on the scene.
Of course this type of whining, does not benefit the consumer any. And, only helps to sell fraudulent books like _Natural Cures_.
Mr-Natural-Health - 11 Sep 2005 10:30 GMT > The latter say that there is no > evidence showing that the homopathetic "drugs" are effective as claimed. I find the study of homeopathy very interesting. Try to bring up a rational discussion of subject, and the science people will always bring up this irrational B/S. This kind of tactic does NOT speak well of science at all.
Homeopathy is basically based on the same science that says that vaccines work.
Of course, the issue of what exactly homeopathy is and what exactly is the 'correct' homeopathic medicine is for a given person for a given health condition, of course, is never defined precisely because nobody in favor of homeopathy can agree on it. Furthermore, the correct homeopathic dosage is just as debatable.
Homeopathy, as such, really requires a 'female mindset' to believe in.
But what I find most interesting about the subject is that the response of the science people is totally unscientific and is more irrational than the subject that they are trying to attack.
Taking a close look at the Randi Challenge itself, this idiot is actually asking for the challenger to prove that magic works. Nobody who takes homeopathy seriously is remotely interested in accepting this challenge simply because no self-respecting person is interested in proving that magic works. The challenge simply is not rational. Again, this Randi Challenge is totally fraudulent, on the face of it.
Rich - 11 Sep 2005 15:19 GMT >> The latter say that there is no >> evidence showing that the homopathetic "drugs" are effective as claimed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bring up this irrational B/S. This kind of tactic does NOT speak well > of science at all. It is neither irrational nor "B/S" to point out that homeopathy has never been supported by a body of research.
> Homeopathy is basically based on the same science that says that > vaccines work. What absolute nonsense! The science behind vaccination, which is well understood, is based on the body's ability to produce antibodies against specific pathogens, and thereby effect immunity. Homeopathy has no such sound scientific basis.
> Of course, the issue of what exactly homeopathy is and what exactly is > the 'correct' homeopathic medicine is for a given person for a given > health condition, of course, is never defined precisely because nobody > in favor of homeopathy can agree on it. Furthermore, the correct > homeopathic dosage is just as debatable. Could that be because the results are irreproducable?
> Homeopathy, as such, really requires a 'female mindset' to believe in. Now that would be an interesting study. Do homeopathic remedies "work" better for female patients? Do they "work" better if prepared and administered by females? A good grant writer could score some cash from the NCCAM for this.
> But what I find most interesting about the subject is that the response > of the science people is totally unscientific and is more irrational > than the subject that they are trying to attack. How so?
> Taking a close look at the Randi Challenge itself, this idiot is > actually asking for the challenger to prove that magic works. Nobody > who takes homeopathy seriously is remotely interested in accepting this > challenge simply because no self-respecting person is interested in > proving that magic works. The challenge simply is not rational. > Again, this Randi Challenge is totally fraudulent, on the face of it. LOL! Randi is not asking for proof that magic works. He KNOWS magic works. He's a magician, you know. He WOULD pay a million bucks to see a homeopath prove that homeopathy works, though. Scratch that. You don't even have to prove that it works. Just show that you can tell the difference between a homeopathic preparation and the pure dilutent that was used to prepare it. Simple. No "fraud" involved.
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Mr-Natural-Health - 11 Sep 2005 16:45 GMT > > Homeopathy is basically based on the same science that says that > > vaccines work. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > specific pathogens, and thereby effect immunity. Homeopathy has no such > sound scientific basis. Then you absolutely know nothing about homeopathy. The language used is different. Implementation is different, but the net results are basically the same that homeopathic medicine in principal works better than vaccinations do.
Instead of being inoculated with dead or weaken viruses, the patient takes homeopathic medicine orally. And, instead of protecting against future occurrences, the patient is cured in the present tense.
> LOL! Randi is not asking for proof that magic works. He KNOWS magic works. > He's a magician, you know. I am glad that you wrote that stupid and false statement. For your information, magic does NOT work because science says so. You should actually try to use the scientific method sometime.
Anybody who needs a magician, to speak for themselves, is pathetic, IMHO.
Just thought that all you ass-hole scientist want-a-bees out there might want to know. :)
Happy Dog - 11 Sep 2005 22:06 GMT "Mr-Natural-Health" <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com>
> Anybody who needs a magician, to speak for themselves, is pathetic, > IMHO. > > Just thought that all you ass-hole scientist want-a-bees out there > might want to know. :) Do you know that Randi exposed the fraud Peter Popoff? It took a magician to expose someone who was duping the religiously gullible and taking their money. Is this a bad thing?
moo
Rich - 12 Sep 2005 04:25 GMT >> > Homeopathy is basically based on the same science that says that >> > vaccines work. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > basically the same that homeopathic medicine in principal works better > than vaccinations do. That's a pretty tall order. Vaccines work remarkably well. Vaccination has eliminated the deadliest infectuous disease in the history of mankind, and is on the verge of eliminating polio as well. Thanks to vaccination, few children in the industrialized world suffer the discomfort and risks of the "childhood diseases". Homeopathy does ot have the same record of success by any stretch of the imagination.
> Instead of being inoculated with dead or weaken viruses, the patient > takes homeopathic medicine orally. And, instead of protecting against > future occurrences, the patient is cured in the present tense. And instead of being based on clearly understood principles of human physiology, homeopathy arises from the mythology of "like cures like" from more than a century ago.
>> LOL! Randi is not asking for proof that magic works. He KNOWS magic >> works. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > information, magic does NOT work because science says so. You should > actually try to use the scientific method sometime. Magic as the art of entertaining with illusions is what Randi practices. Magic of that kind works very well. The magician makes things appear and disappear, move through solid objects, be destroyed and restored, etc., and you are appropriately amazed. Randi knows all this. Magic works.
"Scientific method" is not what you apparently think it is, and it has nothing to do with the validity and value of Randi's challenge. It actually also has little to do with how science is really done, but that is another argument.
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--Rich
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> Anybody who needs a magician, to speak for themselves, is pathetic, > IMHO. > > Just thought that all you ass-hole scientist want-a-bees out there > might want to know. :) David Wright - 13 Sep 2005 04:57 GMT >> > Homeopathy is basically based on the same science that says that >> > vaccines work. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >basically the same that homeopathic medicine in principal works better >than vaccinations do. I see that we can add homeopathy to the ever-increasing list of subjects about which Toothless John knows nothing. If he actually knew anything about homeopathy, he'd know that its Law of Similars is not at all related to vaccination.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Mr-Natural-Health - 13 Sep 2005 06:43 GMT > I see that we can add homeopathy to the ever-increasing list of > subjects about which Toothless John knows nothing. If he actually > knew anything about homeopathy, he'd know that its Law of Similars > is not at all related to vaccination. Yeah, ... Right ... Sure ... inoculation with dead or weaken viruses is not any way SIMILAR to contact with live viruses.
It takes a science want-a-bee to make profoundly stupid statements.
You have my condolences.
cathyb - 13 Sep 2005 07:16 GMT > > I see that we can add homeopathy to the ever-increasing list of > > subjects about which Toothless John knows nothing. If he actually [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yeah, ... Right ... Sure ... inoculation with dead or weaken viruses is > not any way SIMILAR to contact with live viruses. Are you actually making a comparison of the relationship between a dead or attenuated virus and a live one and that of a homeopathic substance before and after it is diluted?
Because the dilutions do not actually contain any of the 'active ingredient'. Only a scientific ignoramus could make such a profoundly stupid comparison.
> It takes a science want-a-bee to make profoundly stupid statements. > > You have my condolences. David Wright - 14 Sep 2005 04:24 GMT >> I see that we can add homeopathy to the ever-increasing list of >> subjects about which Toothless John knows nothing. If he actually [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Yeah, ... Right ... Sure ... inoculation with dead or weaken viruses is >not any way SIMILAR to contact with live viruses. Which has nothing to do with homeopathy's "Law of Similars." Thank you for making my point for me.
>It takes a science want-a-bee to make profoundly stupid statements. > >You have my condolences. You have mine -- since it turns out that in addition to being woefully and willfully ignorant, you're also a racist little prick. Nice to know that your superficial loathesomeness was masking a far more fundamental loathesomeness.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Mr-Natural-Health - 14 Sep 2005 12:33 GMT > You have mine -- since it turns out that in addition to being woefully > and willfully ignorant, you're also a racist little prick. Nice to > know that your superficial loathesomeness was masking a far more > fundamental loathesomeness. Speaking of pricks, your only interest in life is replying to my posts.
You have my condolences.
I brought up the subject only to point out that you slime buckets are acting like the looting and raping niggers that were running around in New Orleans. Surely you have seen videos of this? It is a great and accurate analogy. :)
You, of course, are wrong as usual. :)
You are totally igornat of the homeopathic form of immunization--called a "Nosode". http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/Immunization/NOSODES.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Homeopathy_and_vaccination "To some, homeopathy, particularly the use of nosodes, resembles the mainstream practice of vaccination, in that vaccines contain a small, closely-related dose of the disease against which they are to protect. Hahnemann himself interpreted the introduction of vaccination by Edward Jenner in 1798 as a confirmation of the law of similars."
The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science want-a-bees. Nobody said that the two concepts are 100% identical. There are no mercury vaccines afterall in homeopathy. :)
Can you say Nosode, moron?
cathyb - 14 Sep 2005 12:48 GMT > > You have mine -- since it turns out that in addition to being woefully > > and willfully ignorant, you're also a racist little prick. Nice to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Hahnemann himself interpreted the introduction of vaccination by Edward > Jenner in 1798 as a confirmation of the law of similars." Now why didn't the racist little prick print post all of this, which finished:
"To those familiar with the modern practices of homeopathy and immunology, the two practices are fundamentally different. A vaccine is usually a bacterium or virus whose capability to produce symptoms has deliberately been weakened, while still providing enough information to the immune system to afford protection. By preparing the immune system of a healthy organism to meet a future attack by the pathogen, vaccination hopes to prevent disease, in contrast to homeopathy's hope, which is to cure it."
> The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, > are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science > want-a-bees. Nobody said that the two concepts are 100% identical. > There are no mercury vaccines afterall in homeopathy. :) Or as his actual source has it, the similarities are too insignificant to be considered by 'those familiar with the modern practices of homeopathy and immunology'
> Can you say Nosode, moron? Can you stop being a racist prick, arsehole?
Cathy
Mr-Natural-Health - 14 Sep 2005 15:24 GMT > > You are totally igornat of the homeopathic form of immunization--called > > a "Nosode". > > http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/Immunization/NOSODES.htm
> Now why didn't the racist little prick print post all of this, which > finished: I happen to live in the nigger/murder capital of the country. Nobody uses the word "nigger" more than niggers do.
Just thought that you might want to know, that niggers call themeselves niggers with every other word that comes out of their mouths.
> > The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, > > are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science > > want-a-bees. Nobody said that the two concepts are 100% identical. > > There are no mercury vaccines afterall in homeopathy. :)
> > Can you say Nosode, moron? > > Can you stop being a racist prick, arsehole? Can you say Nosode, moron?
cathyb - 14 Sep 2005 16:35 GMT > > > You are totally igornat of the homeopathic form of immunization--called > > > a "Nosode". [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Can you say Nosode, moron? I see that the racist prick snipped the bit that showed he was being a mendacious prick:
"To those familiar with the modern practices of homeopathy and immunology, the two practices are fundamentally different. A vaccine is
usually a bacterium or virus whose capability to produce symptoms has deliberately been weakened, while still providing enough information to
the immune system to afford protection. By preparing the immune system of a healthy organism to meet a future attack by the pathogen, vaccination hopes to prevent disease, in contrast to homeopathy's hope,
which is to cure it."
And he's still trying to draw attention away from his stupidity by using his racism.
Sad little twat.
Cathy
Mr-Natural-Health - 14 Sep 2005 21:51 GMT > > > > The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, > > > > are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > > Can you say Nosode, moron? I see that the stupid c.nt snipped the bit that showed she was being a mendacious c.nt.
You ain't too bright. :(
No, Dear, you obviously know anything at all about Homeopathic Nosodes
> "To those familiar with the modern practices of homeopathy and > immunology, the two practices are fundamentally different. Perhaps, Dear Moron, if you were to concentrate?
Try looking up the meaning of 'similarity' in the dictionary, Ass-hole. Nobody said that there were not any differences.
Just thought that you might want know, that you are pretty damn stupid. Or, are you just fundamentally a slime-bucket? Yep, I thought so.
You have my condolences.
Mark Probert - 14 Sep 2005 22:49 GMT >>>>>The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, >>>>>are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > You have my condolences. Hmmm...if a member of the TruthSquad posted like this, Jan Drew would be in put bull mode.
cathyb - 15 Sep 2005 07:59 GMT > > > > > The similarities between homeopathy, especially homeopathic Nosodes, > > > > > are too numerous to be overlooked by any but the dumbest science [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Try looking up the meaning of 'similarity' in the dictionary, Ass-hole. > Nobody said that there were not any differences. Oh dear. You posted a Wikipedia entry that, when read in full, said exactly the opposite of your point--that said in fact that anyone who knew anything about it would see that the practices are *fundamentally* different.
And then--bless!--to distract attention from your stupidity you first spew some vile racism, and then throw a tantrum. Too precious.
> Just thought that you might want know, that you are pretty damn stupid. > Or, are you just fundamentally a slime-bucket? Yep, I thought so. You see, this doesn't actually make you look *less* stupid...
Cathy
> You have my condolences. Johnny Huang - 15 Sep 2005 14:30 GMT And he's still trying to draw attention away from his stupidity by using his racism.
Sad little twat.
Cathy ------------ Cathy, do you have any idea why there are so many angry racists here? I hope it is not that alternative medicine attracts hateful, bigoted people.
They target blacks, jews, non-christians, and homosexuals for abuse.
Jan Drew has a history of cyberstalking these people and trying to have their internet access stopped.
Mr(?) "Natural Health" is also more proud of his bigotry than ashamed of his ignorance.
>From what I have read, it may be that the bigots are the ones who hate conventional medicine as opposed to liking alternative medicine.
Please let me know what you think.
David Wright - 15 Sep 2005 05:03 GMT >> You have mine -- since it turns out that in addition to being woefully >> and willfully ignorant, you're also a racist little prick. Nice to >> know that your superficial loathesomeness was masking a far more >> fundamental loathesomeness. > >Speaking of pricks, your only interest in life is replying to my posts. Wrong, as usual. Most of what you post isn't worth a reply
>You have my condolences. Save them for yourself. You need them more.
>I brought up the subject only to point out that you slime buckets are >acting like the looting and raping niggers that were running around in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Hahnemann himself interpreted the introduction of vaccination by Edward >Jenner in 1798 as a confirmation of the law of similars." And then you snip the next paragraph, that illustrates the falseness of your claims. Unsurprising. You remain pathetic to the last.
Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any thinking person, and have instead decided to try to appeal to the skinheads in your neighborhood, doubtless hoping that they'll stop by to sodomize you brutally out of gratitude.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Mr-Natural-Health - 15 Sep 2005 10:23 GMT > Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I > suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any > thinking person, and have instead decided to try to appeal to the > skinheads in your neighborhood, doubtless hoping that they'll stop by > to sodomize you brutally out of gratitude. If niggers use the word 'nigger' all the time, which they do, then using the word nigger ain't racist, Ass-Hole.
You science want-a-bees are the lowest form of life on the planet, and I do not mind saying so.
Just thought that you might want to know, Slime Bucket.
Rich - 15 Sep 2005 12:13 GMT >> Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >> suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If niggers use the word 'nigger' all the time, which they do, then > using the word nigger ain't racist, Ass-Hole. Once again, your opinion, which you claim is "never wrong", is wrong. The word means something entirely different when spoken by an African American than it does when spoken by a low-life ignorant bigot. You most certainly are racist, and ignorant as well.
> You science want-a-bees are the lowest form of life on the planet, and > I do not mind saying so. It's not clear just who you are trying to insult with this ill-conceived epithet. Those here who are scientists are obviously not "want-a-bees", and those who are not scientists have expressed no desire to become such. As far as the "lowest form of life" goes, if we must have a scale for human life, I would certainly place those who harbor malice for other races somewhere in the lower rungs, well below those who aspire to be scientists, for example.
> Just thought that you might want to know, Slime Bucket. So far, you have never managed to provide any information or insight that I might want to know, so your "thought" is in error.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
Mr-Natural-Health - 16 Sep 2005 00:06 GMT > Once again, your opinion, which you claim is "never wrong", is wrong. The > word means something entirely different when spoken by an African American > than it does when spoken by a low-life ignorant bigot. You most certainly > are racist, and ignorant as well. Yeah, ... right, ... sure! As a bigot you are an authority on racism.
You have my condolences.
Mark Probert - 15 Sep 2005 14:33 GMT >>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If niggers use the word 'nigger' all the time, which they do, then > using the word nigger ain't racist, Ass-Hole. To explain why you are wrong would be a waste of time. That is an excuse used by Jan Drew to justify her use of the bigoted slur "Jew Boy." Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind.
> You science want-a-bees are the lowest form of life on the planet, and > I do not mind saying so. That would be 'wannabes' and, bigots are the lowest form of life.
> Just thought that you might want to know, Slime Bucket. I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA.
LadyLollipop - 15 Sep 2005 22:44 GMT >>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > To explain why you are wrong would be a waste of time. That is an excuse > used by Jan Drew to justify her use of the bigoted slur "Jew Boy." That's a REPATED LIE.
> Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. Mark Probert - 15 Sep 2005 23:12 GMT >>>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's a REPATED LIE. Here you posted that an Israeli legislator used the term:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/37fd40d34f811dd7?dmod e=source&hl=en
And, you nuked your other ones...like the one where you refer to a Jewish comic about his use of the slur.
>>Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. LadyLollipop - 16 Sep 2005 02:36 GMT >>>>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/37fd40d34f811dd7?dmod e=source&hl=en I will say AGAIN and it is the GOD"S truth. I had NO IDEA that the term Jew Boy was EVER used as a slur of any kind.
> And, you nuked your other ones...like the one where you refer to a Jewish > comic about his use of the slur. I have NEVER nuked a post, period!!
>>>Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> >>>I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. Rich.@. - 16 Sep 2005 02:50 GMT >I will say AGAIN and it is the GOD"S truth. I had NO IDEA that the term Jew >Boy was EVER used as a slur of any kind. How despicable can Jan Drew get?? Not only does she lie but she invokes the Lord's name in doing so. And she speaks of people being controlled by Satan. And she speaks of people being EVIL.
Sure. Jan Drew just *happened* to use a well known Jewish slur having NO IDEA that it was a slur. It was just a coincidence that Jan Drew said "Jew Boy" as a response when it was clear she was VERY angry at a Jewish poster because of her perception that he blasphemed the Ten Commandments. In her anger she used a slur.
What is amazing is that Jan Drew actually thinks that anyone would believe her. Like Jacob, Jan has to lie to cover up her previous lies.
Jan said that Christians NEVER lie. She lied. Jan said that a doctor lost his license. She lied. Jan said that she NEVER lies. She lied. Jan said that I lied when I said that she posted what she thought was my address. She lied Jan said I lied when I said she felt better than she had in years. She lied. Jan said I lied when I said she felt better than she had in two years. She lied. Jan said that it was a lie to say that she would accuse someone of being paid by pharmaceutical companies since she NEVER said ANYTHING like that. She lied.
Jan is unable to explain ANY of her deceitful statements above. Jan Drew is unable to admit that she is a despicable liar who pretends she is a righteous Christian. Jan Drew can only lie and bear false witness against those who expose her lies and then try to intimidate them by stalking them. Sad that.
Poor Jan. May God have mercy on her soul.
Aloha,
Rich
PS: Cue Jan to call me a cyberstalker, either in this thread or another that she starts. Cue Jan to prove that *she* is the stalker by trying to reveal what she thinks is my real name and/or engage in stalking behavior (calling on phone, etc).
------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
Mark Probert - 16 Sep 2005 16:47 GMT >>>>>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>>>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I will say AGAIN and it is the GOD"S truth. I had NO IDEA that the term Jew > Boy was EVER used as a slur of any kind. However, when you were told that it was, you defended your use of it instead of posting an apology. By defending your use of it, you proved you are a bigot.
>>And, you nuked your other ones...like the one where you refer to a Jewish >>comic about his use of the slur. > > I have NEVER nuked a post, period!! Prove it. I looked for a specific post of yours and could not find it. Accordingly, the only explanation is that you nuked it.
>>>>Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>> >>>>I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. LadyLollipop - 16 Sep 2005 23:37 GMT <snip>
This is not about me, period.
>>>>>>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>>>>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>>>>If niggers use the word 'nigger' all the time, which they do, then >>>>>>using the word nigger ain't racist, Ass-Hole.
>>>>>Suffice it to say that your sheets are blowing in the wind. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>>> >>>>>I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. Rich.@. - 16 Sep 2005 23:48 GMT
>This is not about me, period.
>I will say AGAIN and it is the GOD"S truth. I had NO IDEA that the term Jew >Boy was EVER used as a slur of any kind. How despicable can Jan Drew get?? Not only does she lie but she invokes the Lord's name in doing so. And she speaks of people being controlled by Satan. And she speaks of people being EVIL.
Sure. Jan Drew just *happened* to use a well known Jewish slur having NO IDEA that it was a slur. It was just a coincidence that Jan Drew said "Jew Boy" as a response when it was clear she was VERY angry at a Jewish poster because of her perception that he blasphemed the Ten Commandments. The truth is that in her anger she used a slur.
What is amazing is that Jan Drew actually thinks that anyone would believe her that she did not know that "Jew Boy" is a slur.
Like Jacob, Jan has to lie to cover up her previous lies.
Jan said that Christians NEVER lie. She lied. Jan said that a doctor lost his license. She lied. Jan said that she NEVER lies. She lied. Jan said that I lied when I said that she posted what she thought was my address. She lied Jan said I lied when I said she felt better than she had in years. She lied. Jan said I lied when I said she felt better than she had in two years. She lied. Jan said that it was a lie to say that she would accuse someone of being paid by pharmaceutical companies since she NEVER said ANYTHING like that. She lied.
Lying flows like honey from the keyboard of Jan Drew.
Jan is unable to explain ANY of her deceitful statements above. Jan Drew is unable to admit that she is a despicable liar who pretends she is a righteous Christian. Jan Drew can only lie and bear false witness against those who expose her lies and then try to intimidate them by stalking them. Sad that.
Poor Jan. May God have mercy on her soul.
Aloha,
Rich
PS: Cue Jan to call me a cyberstalker, either in this thread or another that she starts. Cue Jan to prove that *she* is the stalker by trying to reveal what she thinks is my real name and/or engage in stalking behavior (calling on phone, etc).
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Best defense to logic is ignorance
Mark Probert - 17 Sep 2005 01:11 GMT > <snip> > > This is not about me, period. Like I told you a gadzillion times...when you post, it becomes about you.
>>>>>>>>Why you chose this venue to reveal your racism, I have no idea. I >>>>>>>>suppose you've given up all hope of ever being taken seriously by any [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>>>> >>>>>>I see, so your address is Slime Bucket, USA. Mr-Natural-Health - 17 Sep 2005 08:51 GMT > > <snip> > > > > This is not about me, period. > > Like I told you a gadzillion times...when you post, it becomes about you. Yeah, that is true.
Perhaps, Mark, you can take it up with your support group the next time you losers meet?
You have my condolences.
Rich - 17 Sep 2005 09:00 GMT >> > <snip> >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You have my condolences. You, recognized as one of the looniest of the internet loons, and now reduced to spouting racist filth for lack of cogent commentary, have the temerity to call another a "loser"? That would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
 Signature
--Rich
Recommended websites:
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/
LadyLollipop - 17 Sep 2005 09:12 GMT >>> > <snip> >>> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You, recognized as one of the looniest of the internet loons, <snip>
YOU are a harasser and support Mark Probert, another harasser, and proven liar.
YOU are recognized, as just what you are
> --Rich <snip filth>
It matters not what the subject is, Richard H Jacobson sees my name and starts foaming at the mouth. His pattern of cyberstalking and badgering started long before me, I just happened to be his current target, all others he has run off, boo hoo, he has failed to do that with me. See his pattern here:
http://tinyurl.com/39u2g
http://tinyurl.com/2vxcl
http://tinyurl.com/2nbzc
http://tinyurl.com/3gzhf
Cue for Richard H Jacobson/akaRich..@.. to post with his usual cyberstalking and attacking me. Just watch. Just like clockwork. Sorry to belabor the obvious.
Somethings are so predictable
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Best defense to logic is ignorance
Cue Mark Probert, who also has become a cyberstalker to attack me also.
Cue Rich Shewmaker to attack and harass
Cue any of the *gang* to attack
cathyb - 17 Sep 2005 09:34 GMT |
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