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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / September 2005"Quackbusting" - is a Profitable Business
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm "Quackbusting" - is a Profitable Business... Frankly, "quackbusting" is a profitable industry, and Stephen Barrett plays it to the hilt. In a Canadian lawsuit (see below) Barrett admitted to the following: "The sole purpose of the activities of Barrett & Baratz are to discredit and cause damage and harm to health care practitioners, businesses that make alternative health therapies or products available, and advocates of non-allopathic therapies and health freedom." Stephen Barrett testifies for money. He claims he's an "expert" in virtually everything. Those "expert witness" fees seem to be a significant part of Barrett's existence. In a California Court case, former Barrett peer, and fellow Board Member of the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF), William Jarvis PhD, testified, under oath, that Stephen Barrett and Robert Baratz conspired to use the NCAHF, without Board permission, as a Plaintiff in over 40 cases in California, where Barrett and Baratz were to testify as "expert witnesses," and get expert witness fees. The NCAHF Board was never consulted. However, sometimes their plans fail. One of those cases caused the NCAHF to be saddled with over $100,000 in legal fees awarded their victim - and the NCAHF doesn't have the money to pay that debt. In fact, the NCAHF is SO DESPERATE for funds it is being run out of a cardboard box in the back room of Robert Baratz's Braintree, Massachusetts hair removal and ear piercing salon. Those type of cases Barrett involved the NCAHF in were considered so heinous that the people of California just passed an initiative (Proposition #64) banning this kind of lawsuit for all time. Barrett's claim to be a Consumer Advocate is an insult to American consumers. Organized Stupidity is the Hallmark of the Quackbuster Conspiracy... Barrett, and his vacuous minions, like to spout off other stupid "rules" that they think should apply to health care - the application of which, has to make the scientific community shudder. There's a lot more... Barrett's Funding - TOP SECRET... Barrett was cornered in a Federal case in the State of Oregon not long ago, and asked about his income. He testified that over the past two years he made a TOTAL of $54,000. How then does he afford to carry on fourteen (14) separate legal actions at one time? If each legal action cost him $100,000, that would come to 1.4 million dollars ($1,400,000). How do you squeeze 1.4 million out of a $54,000 total income? Good question... Leaving aside the "kill the messenger" content of this post, would the quacks suddenly find vindication if he should disappear? Would they be embrased by science and would government regulation of them cease? The problem with the quacks is themselves, not that people and science and government are on their case with justification. Speaking of money, shall we flip the coin, pun entended? Is any intrest in increasing already huge profits in the intrests of those who whine because the spot light of science is being directed their way? >Leaving aside the "kill the messenger" content of this post, would the >quacks suddenly find vindication if he should disappear? True quacks would not. And there ARE quacks. Some practice allopathic medicine. What makes Barrett et al. so utterly completely worthless to those of us making treatment choices and living with chronic diseases is they paint with a broad brush. And that is simply, demonstrably wrong. They're nothing but profiteering bigots. George M. Carter >>Leaving aside the "kill the messenger" content of this post, would the >>quacks suddenly find vindication if he should disappear? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > They're nothing but profiteering bigots. OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely wrong. moo >>>Leaving aside the "kill the messenger" content of this post, would the >>>quacks suddenly find vindication if he should disappear? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >moo His garbage about going after the licenses of scientists and physicians working to figure out the complexity of MCS is one thing ... particularly with him being unlicenced and not able to pass the board certifications himself. The Lyme Info is also bogus .... typical Quack garbage. Thanks for asking Wesley. The Ratbaggers always ignore the blatant lies of their Hero ... His garbage about going after the licenses of scientists and physicians working to figure out the complexity of MCS is one thing ... particularly with him being unlicenced and not able to pass the board certifications himself. The Lyme Info is also bogus .... typical Quack garbage. Thanks for asking Wesley. snip... >OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely >wrong. I don't care to take the time at the moment, missa boss-massah. >snip... >>OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely >>wrong. > >I don't care to take the time at the moment, missa boss-massah. That's a lot of words to just say "I can't".  SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>snip... >>>OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >That's a lot of words to just say "I can't". LOL....no. It's a lotta words to say "I won't." Go f.ck yourself, bigot. >>>snip... >>>>OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Go f.ck yourself, bigot. Can't, won't, ... A difference which makes no difference is no difference at all. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >Can't, won't, ... > >A difference which makes no difference is no difference at all. Little wonder they use people that have such a complete inability to parse a significant difference as "can't or won't" to conduct your worthless smear campaigns. Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots that push "intelligent design." George M. Carter "Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots that push "intelligent design."" An intresting false oppisition of a strawman. Unlike the science on quack watch intellegent design has no science at all, nothing but marketing. We need to focus the question again, to show quack watch wrong one must show the science on whitch it is based to be wrong, the reporter posting the views based on that science only reflects the larger scientific community. If quack watch should disappear none of the truth claims of the quacks would be supported, they would still have to rise or fall based on the now absent support in science. To this point they can't fall, they are still flat on the ground scientifically. >"Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots that >push "intelligent design."" > >An intresting false oppisition of a strawman. Unlike the science on quack >watch intellegent design has no science at all, nothing but marketing. Right. This demonstrates clearly that you don't know you're a.s from a hole in the ground. Marketing? Ask the pharmaceutical industry. That's an even worse strawman. Profit/marketing do indeed render much of the medical world suspect (and I include supplements/alternative etc.) Intrinsically, it doesn't obviate the power of what actually does work. And this blanket statement is EXACTLY why I loathe quackwatch. They are completely full of sh.t. George M. Carter "it doesn't obviate the power of what actually does work." And you have failed to produce examples of same as counter evidence to the science supporting the quack busting crowd. Produce examples or stop whining. "And this blanket statement is EXACTLY why I loathe quackwatch. They are completely full of sh.t." Are you trying to be 1 funny 2 ironic 3 self deprecating 4 lead by example >>"Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots that >>push "intelligent design."" [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >And this blanket statement is EXACTLY why I loathe quackwatch. They >are completely full of sh.t. Intriguing. You say that Quackwatch is completely full of sh.t, and you offer as evidence the statement by yourself that Quackwatch is full of sh.t. In fact you say that the "blanket statement" that it is full of sh.t is "EXACTLY" the reason. I am not surprised that you both can't and won't offer evidence, as you obviously have no grasp of even basic logic. That is why you have to resort to profanity as if it is a form of argument. > George M. Carter SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>>"Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots >>>that [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > you obviously have no grasp of even basic logic. That is why you have > to resort to profanity as if it is a form of argument. Like this : Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 48 for myfirstname@ratbags. com sh.t (0.23 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 34 for myfirstname@ratbags. com f.ck off (0.08 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 21 for markprobert@lumbercartel. com f.ck off (0.20 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 17 for markprobert@lumbercartel. com FOAD (0.19 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 54 for markprobert@lumbercartel. com sh.t (0.11 seconds) <snip Lying websites + spam> Cue For Mark Probert To with his lies. Cue For Richard H Jacobson to Cue Jan Cue for Rich Shewmaker to Harass Cue for *any* gang member to post to with their lies. > Like this : > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 54 for > markprobert@lumbercartel. com sh.t (0.11 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 39 for LadyLollipop@insightbb.com sh.t (0.16 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 52 for LadyLollipop@insightbb.com f.ck (0.17 seconds) Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 86 for LadyLollipop@insightbb.com piss (0.28 seconds) Pretty meaningless, isn't it? Besides, those words are not necessarily profanity. No one takes offense if you say them in Latin, but why discriminate against good old Anglo Saxon English? There are no commandments in your Bible against such usage. . .only against taking "the Lord's name in vain". And Peter was not decrying Mr. Carter's use of "full of sh.t" as a social sin so much as as a weak form of argument. So lighten up. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ Cue for Rich Shewmaker to Harass Somethings are so predictable >> Like this : >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > --Rich > Cue for Rich Shewmaker to Harass > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 54 for >>> markprobert@lumbercartel. com sh.t (0.11 secononds) Please explain how my post is "harassing" while yours is not. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ > Besides, those words are not necessarily profanity. No one takes > offense if you say them in Latin, but why discriminate against good > old Anglo Saxon English? There are no commandments in your Bible > against such usage. . .only against taking "the Lord's name in vain". > And Peter was not decrying Mr. Carter's use of "full of sh.t" as a > social sin so much as as a weak form of argument. Ever since I was a teenager, I've been somewhat fascinated/disgusted by the fact that several of the Seven Words You Can't Say On Radio are on the list only as the result of the outcome of a battle that took place in 1066. It's often the case that many taboo actions are taboo for no more reason than that they represented customs practiced by the conquered (or the escaped-from: in American society, what do the prohibition against first-cousin marriage (which is an almost purely American phenomenon), the Constitutional requirement that only a natural-born American can become president, the Constitutional prohibition against the granting of titles, and the estate tax (aka "death tax") have to do with each other? Simple: they were all motivated by a desire to prevent European-style hereditary aristocracy from establishing itself here (and in particular, to prevent existing eighteenth-century European noble families from becoming influential here)). > "Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in > Ever since I was a teenager, I've been somewhat fascinated/disgusted by > the fact that several of the Seven Words You Can't Say On Radio are on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the escaped-from: in American society, what do the prohibition against > first-cousin marriage (which is an almost purely American >phenomenon), Is that so? Is that common in Europe. I know Einstein married his cousin. > the Constitutional requirement that only a natural-born American can > become president, That should be obvious! the Constitutional prohibition against the granting of > titles, and the estate tax (aka "death tax") have to do with each Thats greed , pure and simple! other? > Simple: they were all motivated by a desire to prevent European-style > hereditary aristocracy from establishing itself here (and in particular, > to prevent existing eighteenth-century European noble families from > becoming influential here)). Why is that so disgusting? Who want's a King. I've seen how some Europeans thinks. A few are up here and the rest are "down there". Guess God just blessess some people and you have to live with it huh? forget that! > Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 21 for > markprobert@lumbercartel. com f.ck off (0.20 seconds) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 54 for > markprobert@lumbercartel. com sh.t (0.11 seconds) Sorry, jan, but this thread is not about me. > Cue For Mark Probert To with his lies. To what? snip >I am not surprised that you both can't and won't offer evidence, as >you obviously have no grasp of even basic logic. That is why you have >to resort to profanity as if it is a form of argument. Darling, I'm not doing a lot of work for no pay to justify what I've expressed which is my opinion. If you don't like it, that's just fine by me. George M. Carter >snip >>I am not surprised that you both can't and won't offer evidence, as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Darling, I'm not doing a lot of work for no pay to justify what I've >expressed which is my opinion. That's OK. I understand why you won't back up your opinion. The word "can't" springs to mind. Or even "cant", for that matter. >If you don't like it, that's just fine by me. > > George M. Carter SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>Darling, I'm not doing a lot of work for no pay to justify what I've >>expressed which is my opinion. > >That's OK. I understand why you won't back up your opinion. The word >"can't" springs to mind. Or even "cant", for that matter. You're entitled to believe whatever you wish! > snip > >I am not surprised that you both can't and won't offer evidence, as [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > George M. Carter Then we must assume that you have nothing on which to base your opinion. Cathy >Then we must assume that you have nothing on which to base your >opinion. You certainly may presume that. It is not the case, however but yes, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you. It remains my opinion, based on past experience and review of their material, methods, etc. that Quackwatch is worse than worthless bigotry. What truths they have to offer are lost in the haze of rhetoric and knee-jerk reflexive dismissal. This makes them worthless to me. That is my view. You are absolutely free to reject it and embrace all that they say as gospel! George M. Carter Ah, now we get to the meat of the question. Opinions in huge piles can be found at the corner tavern any night of the week. Having now expressed the limits of what you can contribute, we can now say on your behalf that you can say nothing scientifically speaking about the science on which the quack busters base their views. But opinions are free for the asking on any other topic. "Darling, I'm not doing a lot of work for no pay to justify what I've expressed which is my opinion." >>Can't, won't, ... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >parse a significant difference as "can't or won't" to conduct your >worthless smear campaigns. I am well aware of the difference between "can't" and "won't" in normal use. I your case, however you won't because you can't. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com snip >I am well aware of the difference between "can't" and "won't" in >normal use. I your case, however you won't because you can't. LOL. No. I won't because I have done it before. I've had conversations with Sampson and Barrett and other a.sholes over there and it's an utter waste of time. As it would be with you. You're a bigot, like them. Not a scientist. George M. Carter "LOL. No. I won't because I have done it before. I've had conversations with Sampson and Barrett and other a.sholes over there and it's an utter waste of time. As it would be with you. You're a bigot, like them. Not a scientist." Ah, previous failure is a good teacher eh? Your opinion about how evil the quack buster crowd is is irrelevant. Only the counter evidence of equal quality to the science presented is of any concern. Stop whining and produce or admit you can't or are afraid it will fail again. "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: > Quackwatch does not serve science. They're no better than the idiots > that push "intelligent design." So you say. And, you refuse to back your claim with examples of inaccurate claims on quackwatch (with your discussion of the evidence). You claim that you won't do this because you don't like the people asking the questions. However, I've gone through your posts and can't see where you've done this for *anybody*. Have you? Ever? Am I just not looking hard enough? moo >And, you refuse to back your claim with examples of inaccurate >claims on quackwatch (with your discussion of the evidence). No Thuro ... YOU ... as is the quackway ... ignore the lies and distortion of Barrett's MCS chemical industry backed nonsense .. and the idiocy of some of the Lyme Disinformation quackwatch spews. www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackbustersVsIlena.htm#MCS >"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >claims on quackwatch (with your discussion of the evidence). You claim that >you won't do this because you don't like the people asking the questions. Incorrect. Indeed, I think they're bigots. But I won't because I don't wish to take the considerable amount of time it would take, to begin with, to no significant effect (you guys are quite set in your views) and thus it is a waste of my time. >However, I've gone through your posts and can't see where you've done this >for *anybody*. Have you? Ever? Am I just not looking hard enough? Probably not. As undoubtedly you will shift the goalposts as to what constitutes a refutation. So! You are more than welcome to reject my opinion! George M. Carter I imagine many/most of the readers are unaware of the topic from either perspective, educate them. It would be a waste of time if you don't prpovide the requested information and your notions about it irrelevant. "Incorrect. Indeed, I think they're bigots. But I won't because I don't wish to take the considerable amount of time it would take, to begin with, to no significant effect (you guys are quite set in your views) and thus it is a waste of my time." >>"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >So! You are more than welcome to reject my opinion! So you admit that it is opinion, not substantiated fact? Thank you for your honesty. I now see clearly why you both can't and won't offer any refutation of the material on the Quackwatch site, because all you have is opinion, not facts. Feel free to curse me in your reply. > George M. Carter SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>>"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > So you admit that it is opinion, not substantiated fact? So you can't read? Thank you for your honesty. LOLOLOL. Poor Peter asks a question, then before it is answered, he thanks the poster. What a hoot! I now see clearly why you both can't and won't offer any > refutation of the material on the Quackwatch site, because all you > have is opinion, not facts. > > Feel free to curse me in your reply. Thanks for the laugh, Peter. >> George M. Carter I can easily refute the material on Quack Quack. Certification of acupuncturists is a sham. While a few of those so accredited are naive physicians, most are nonmedical persons who only play at being doctor and use this certification as an umbrella for a host of unproven New Age hokum treatments. Unfortunately, a few HMOs, hospitals, and even medical schools are succumbing to the bait and exposing patients to such bogus treatments when they need real medical care http://www.nlm.nih.gov/archive/20040823/pubs/cbm/acupuncture.html The National Council Against Health Fraud has concluded: a.. Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment. The NCAFH has concluded, W R O N G. http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/42/12/1508 http://tinyurl.com/7ajgz Migraine and tension headache--a complementary and alternative medicine approach. Woolhouse M. michellewoolhouse@hotmail.com BACKGROUND: Migraine and tension headache are common--affecting up to 10% and 40% of the Australian population respectively--and result in significant reduction in social activities and work capacity for sufferers. OBJECTIVE: This article considers the evidence for the use of a range of complementary therapies and treatment in the prevention and management of both migraine and tension headache. DISCUSSION: Migraine and tension headache can have many precipitating factors. Considering dietary and environmental factors complements a migraine/headache consultation. There is evidence for the role of mind-body approaches, nutritional supplements such as riboflavin and magnesium, and acupuncture in the treatment of headache. By using a holistic approach we may be able to tailor a treatment program that is both effective and safe. PMID: 16113701 [PubMed - in process] http://tinyurl.com/ahbvy 1: Health Technol Assess. 2005 Aug;9(32):1-126. Related Articles, Links Longer term clinical and economic benefits of offering acupuncture care to patients with chronic low back pain. Thomas KJ, Macpherson H, Ratcliffe J, Thorpe L, Brazier J, Campbell M, Fitter M, Roman M, Walters S, Nicholl JP. School of Health and Related Research (ScHARR), University of Sheffield, UK. OBJECTIVES: To test whether patients with persistent non-specific low back pain, when offered access to traditional acupuncture care alongside conventional primary care, gained more long-term relief from pain than those offered conventional care only, for equal or less cost. Safety and acceptability of acupuncture care to patients, and the heterogeneity of outcomes were also tested. DESIGN: A pragmatic, two parallel group, randomised controlled trial. Patients in the experimental arm were offered the option of referral to the acupuncture service comprising six acupuncturists. The control group received usual care from their general practitioner (GP). Eligible patients were randomised in a ratio of 2:1 to the offer of acupuncture to allow between-acupuncturist effects to be tested. SETTING: Three non-NHS acupuncture clinics, with referrals from 39 GPs working in 16 practices in York, UK. PARTICIPANTS: Patients aged 18--65 years with non-specific low back pain of 4--52 weeks' duration, assessed as suitable for primary care management by their general practitioner. INTERVENTIONS: The trial protocol allowed up to ten individualised acupuncture treatments per patient. The acupuncturist determined the content and the number of treatments according to patient need. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The Short Form 36 (SF-36) Bodily Pain dimension (range 0--100 points), assessed at baseline, and 3, 12 and 24 months. The study was powered to detect a 10-point difference between groups at 12 months post-randomisation. Cost--utility analysis was conducted at 24 months using the EuroQoL 5 Dimensions (EQ-5D) and a preference-based single index measure derived from the SF-36 (SF-6D). Secondary outcomes included the McGill Present Pain Index (PPI), Oswestry Pain Disability Index (ODI), all other SF-36 dimensions, medication use, pain-free months in the past year, worry about back pain, satisfaction with care received, and safety and acceptability of acupuncture care. RESULTS: A total of 159 patients were in the 'acupuncture offer' arm and 80 in the 'usual care' arm. All 159 patients randomised to the offer of acupuncture care chose to receive acupuncture treatment, and received an average of eight acupuncture treatments within the trial. Analysis of covariance, adjusting for baseline score, found an intervention effect of 5.6 points on the SF-36 Pain dimension [95% confidence interval (CI) -1.3 to 12.5] in favour of the acupuncture group at 12 months, and 8 points (95% CI 0.7 to 15.3) at 24 months. No evidence of heterogeneity of effect was found for the different acupuncturists. Patients receiving acupuncture care did not report any serious or life-threatening events. No significant treatment effect was found for any of the SF-36 dimensions other than Pain, or for the PPI or the ODI. Patients receiving acupuncture care reported a significantly greater reduction in worry about their back pain at 12 and 24 months compared with the usual care group. At 24 months, the acupuncture care group was significantly more likely to report 12 months pain free and less likely to report the use of medication for pain relief. The acupuncture service was found to be cost-effective at 24 months; the estimated cost per quality-adjusted (QALY) was pound4241 (95% CI pound191 to pound28,026) using the SF-6D scoring algorithm based on responses to the SF-36, and pound3598 (95% CI pound189 to pound22,035) using the EQ-5D health status instrument. The NHS costs were greater in the acupuncture care group than in the usual care group. However, the additional resource use was less than the costs of the acupuncture treatment itself, suggesting that some usual care resource use was offset. CONCLUSIONS: Traditional acupuncture care delivered in a primary care setting was safe and acceptable to patients with non-specific low back pain. Acupuncture care and usual care were both associated with clinically significant improvement at 12- and 24-month follow-up. Acupuncture care was significantly more effective in reducing bodily pain than usual care at 24-month follow-up. No benefits relating to function or disability were identified. GP referral to a service providing traditional acupuncture care offers a cost-effective intervention for reducing low back pain over a 2-year period. Further research is needed to examine many aspects of this treatment including its impact compared with other possible short-term packages of care (such as massage, chiropractic or physiotherapy), various aspects of cost-effectiveness, value to patients and implementation protocols. PMID: 16095547 [PubMed - in process] ================= Alternative therapy" is a marketing term that should not be permitted. I can refute that as coming from an ignorant BLATANT control freak. QUACK QUACK. Cue for ALL the *gang* control freaks to post with their usual blatant lies and personal trashing, just watch. Somthings are so predictable > Incorrect. Indeed, I think they're bigots. But I won't because I don't Just look at what they say about amalgam (www.dentalwatch....) even a cursory look shows the BS dripping from his lips! Ahem, Composition Statements that amalgam is 50% mercury are false because the original ingredients are modified during the setting reaction. ----- NO, amalgam is 50% Hg and never loses charactersitcs of Hg. that is why it expands like a thermometer! That is why it reacts with gold, ya MORON! Dental Amalgam is the result of a series of chemical reactions among its components. The starting material consists of approximately 35-42% mercury plus an "alloy" of silver, copper, tin, and other minor components. The final product-called amalgam-is a completely different material that contains a variety of complex compounds. In one sense it is similar to mixed concrete. ---- NO, concrete isn't associated with a vapor pressure! Amalgam is, shithead!! You start with cement, sand, stone and water. The final product is concrete. You can't get the original components back without chemically decomposing it. ------- Massive amounts of Hg come off amalgam in the form of vapor and liquid. It's the undisputed number one source of elemental Hg. what an a.s! Safety The word "safe" is a relative term and requires definition. Once one makes a definition of "safe" then one can measure a material or activity against this standard. -------- LOL-Scientific competence and intelligence are also relative No study has shown any harm from proper use of dental amalgam in patients. thats wrong, I already quoted published papers where high levels of hg in blood were correlated with amalgam. The authors even suspected tooth grinding as one factor! Amalgam can be subject to fracture and pieces swallowed. These are not absorbed and pass through the GI tract. ------------------------------------------- I also posted another reference were recent research indicates that indeed small particles can be decomposed to Hg in the stomach. This is a baseless bunch of crap, designed to echo the propaganda of (in this case organized dentistry) which doesn't have ONE SHRED of proof. Do you think anyone actually collected pieces of amalgam particles in someones sh.t to see if they were intact? Amalgam has also been aspirated on rare occasions. No harm has ensued from the material itself. Amalgam has regularly been implanted into bone during surgical endodontics without any resultant harm. ------------------ No studies have ever even been done capable of assessing affects in the top 10% of the population. Studies have been done potentially linking amalgam to health effects. Occasional minor allergies have been reported. --------------------------------- the FDa has recieved thousands or adverse reports and no adverse reporting mechanism is in place. More unscientific baloney from Barret. he's an echo chamber for organized medicince ,dentistry and industry and lies shamelessly.. Virtually every dental material can give rise to allergies. Amalgam is not the most allergenic of dental materials. ------------------------- Unscientific, unsubstantiated, propagandiezed ,ego and financially driven drivel!! No disease or illness has ever been associated with amalgam use in patients, or from occupational use by dentists, ----------------------------- AGain that is false, and numerous studies point to effects on dentists. We even recently discussed some. So This is another lie.. Major reviews by the FDA, the National Institutes of Health, and the U.S. Public health service have confirmed the safety of amalgam. ------------------------- Highly misleading. Amalgam has never been tested for safety by the FDA. Barret also forgets to mention that Europe has issued warnings for amalgam and legislation for bans (based on patient safety concerns) have been introduced in congress. Major consumer and patient advocacy organizations-including Consumers Union, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, and the Alzheimer's and Related Diseases Association-have concluded that there is no association between amalgam and human illness. ------------------ No large studies have ever been done! Some studies have shown association between amalgam and certain medical conditions. the largest study i saw, concluded that there were too many cofounders to draw epidemological conclusions. Barret equates a lack of infromation and uncertainty with supporting his opinion!! If it were 1960 he'd be saying there is no proof of harm fro m cigarettes "Toxicity" Dose makes a poison. Even table salt can be poisonous. One can drown in simple water. No component of set dental amalgam is a known poison. ---------------------------------- Wrong. Scientific drivel. try dropping amalgam and salt in a strong acid! Whew this idiocy is getting tiresome . Too exahusted to even correct all the idiotic errorrs and lies even in this one article! gettin verry tired... Okay one more... The ingredients of current amalgam are sold in pre-proportioned, ........ventilation eliminate any hazard. Claims that amalgam contains organic mercury or is converted to organic mercury are false. ---------------------------------- WRONG organic conversion of dental hg to organic form has been documented. Barret is a ceritified lying A..hole...!! So long Barret ....and the rest of your sick ilk! "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >>So you say. And, you refuse to back your claim with examples of >>inaccurate [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > with, to no significant effect (you guys are quite set in your views) > and thus it is a waste of my time. IOW, you've never backed your claim anywhere that anyone can see your evidence. >>However, I've gone through your posts and can't see where you've done this >>for *anybody*. Have you? Ever? Am I just not looking hard enough? > > Probably not. As undoubtedly you will shift the goalposts as to what > constitutes a refutation. A good argument, with several examples and evidence, that Quackwatch has some wholly erroneous information would be a good start. FWIW, I have disagreed with Barrett a few times in the past. But I've yet to see evidence that his site is a wholesale fraud; as you claim. > So! You are more than welcome to reject my opinion! I reject your, by your own admission, unsubstantiated opinion. moo "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: > snip... >>OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely >>wrong. > > I don't care to take the time at the moment, missa boss-massah. You make a definitive claim and then get bent out of shape when asked to provide a shred of evidence or even your reasoning behind it? Idiot. moo >"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >You make a definitive claim and then get bent out of shape when asked to >provide a shred of evidence or even your reasoning behind it? Idiot. Nope. Just not gonna bother with an a.shole like you. Been there, done that. >>"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Nope. Just not gonna bother with an a.shole like you. Been there, done >that. A lot of words to just say "I can't". SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message news: >>You make a definitive claim and then get bent out of shape when asked to >>provide a shred of evidence or even your reasoning behind it? Idiot. > > Nope. Just not gonna bother with an a.shole like you. Been there, done > that. Fair enough. But, I note, that you haven't provided this evidence for anybody here. You're just preaching to the choir. BTW, the only :bothering" you've done on my behalf hasn't consisted of any cogent defense of your claims. Perhaps you should just talk to yourself. moo > OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely > wrong. > > moo That will be my pleasure! I followed this thread for a while and finally decided I couldn't resist anymore and had to offer my 2 cents. I apologize for the length but I have some things to say tonight about this Quackwatch fiasco. I have all the proof you need that it's garbage and leading people away from potential help at a fraction of *medical establishment* costs. Do they endorse or support anything "homeopathic"??? I was pretty ticked that he blasted the Greatest Vitamin in the World by Don Lapre with a "special" report. They drug this man's name through the dirt because of a couple of stupid things he did in his past. Enron was much worse and you barely hear about it. Although Quackwatch speaks loudly online regarding Mr. Lapre his past and the product, there are a lot more sites out there that sing praises about the product. You guys talk about science like science has all the answers and they don't. If they did we would have a lot more healthy people and a lot less death and disease going around. As a matter of fact we wouldn't have super mutated viruses going around. Science is man putting his/her faith in the hands of man. Regardless of what you think, some natural products, maybe in your own backyard, just work with no scientific explanation or documentation required. Keep putting your faith in heavily biased *science*, labs and man and see how long you'll be around! Soon natural remedies will be outlawed altogether if medical authorities get their way. How is it possible that there are no studies that prove that natural remedies used for centuries have been proven to help or cure anything but everything in the lab is a "better, more effective" alternative and just happens to cost several times more and have so many side-effects it's ridiculous? The cost for healthcare itself is absolutely ridiculous! And America is the only country that's this way. It's amazing how people who have used natural products can claim how effective they are but the product documentation or company can not legally claim its benefits or they will feel the incredible crushing power of the FDA? And FDA approval can not be acquired due to the rigid stipulations, astronomical costs and number of years required for research and testing to get that FDA stamp. The only people who can afford to gain this critical legal status are the pharmaceutical giants. Makes you say hmmmm... I am a very informed man and have very deep resources to do proper due diligence regarding just about anything I may need an honest assessment of. I have not always strived to be an upright and just man like I'm pretty sure that most of us haven't. Just because Mr. Lapre may have done some things in the past that he shouldn't have does not mean that he still does. I happen to know him as a spiritual man that lost his way and is trying to redeem himself in the eyes of man with the GVITW. I figure he learned that he can honestly help people and be far more successful than he ever could by doing something dishonest. Of course he's catching a lot of resistance along the way but it will be well worth it for him. I believe, if he really was doing something wrong, false or misleading don't you think that the Attorney General would have spared no expense and rushed to shut him down? I believe so but they haven't. They haven't pursued him because he has done nothing wrong. Everything this product stands for is based on a combination of proven scientific research and first-hand experience that you can follow up on yourself. I believe in forgiveness and trying something first BEFORE I discredit the product like these so-called "Quackbusters" have done. The key statement that Quackwatch concludes its findings with is "in my opinion". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's interesting and amazing that his "opinion" is based on biased and past personal information that could very well have no relevance. Moreover, he hasn't or doesn't know anyone that has personally tried the product! I find that very interesting as well. We should take the word of someone who has actually TRIED the product without prejudice, not someone who hasn't. Why am I so adamant about it? Because I have personally experienced the amazing impact that this product has had on my life, my best friend's life, my fiancé's, my grandfather's, my mom (RN with homeopathic and CC certs) and more since we've been taking it. I'm letting everyone I know about it. Maybe they can be helped in some way from it like us. As a matter of fact I believe in the product so much that I paid to have a site built to educate people about the product and its ingredients and a way for my friends and family to conveniently order it every month. This product is no joke and is everything that they say it is! I've tried it seems like every "vitamin" out there from GNC to Sundown and was currently taking a vitamin from Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals. I was told about the Greatest Vitamin from a long-time friend of mine that tried it and ended up curing his Insomnia, Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and helping him in many other areas. Before then, nothing he had tried solved his problems. Since we have been friends since elementary, I knew I could trust his word. I went to the site and was blown away by the wealth of accurate and verifiable information. The education was priceless. I ordered and took the vitamins for about 5 days before I began to feel very different! I had more energy, was more focused, slept better, could see better, didn't eat as much, (pardon my saying) had better bowel movements and more. Needless to say, I have become a vocal endorser of this product and there is absolutely no way I will live without taking these vitamins daily as long as this company is in business. I ordered a bottle for my grandpa as a general nutrition aid and to see how it would help with his type-2 diabetes. He feels much better all around and he is 84 years old. His diabetic symptoms are gone and his blood-sugar stays in check easier with his normal diet. Considering that we are in a health related newsgroup and the nature of the discussion, I strongly urge all of you to go to this web site (http://www.ptfapremier.com), read the material and make the purchase. They say it takes from 3-7 days for you to feel the effects of the vitamin, but just take them as directed for at least 10 days to get your system on track. If you don't agree that they're the best vitamin you've ever taken, you have a 30 day guarantee for a full refund. Simple as that. You have absolutely nothing to lose but poor health and nutrition. But don't take *our* word for it, try the product and see for yourself if Quackwatch knows what they're talking about. Based on our *personal* experiences, I can't see that happening. Regards, Revelation ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." Nicolas Cage in City of Angels ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- The Movement Has Begun: www.ptfaprogram.com/intro > > OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely > > wrong. [quoted text clipped - 117 lines] > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- > The Movement Has Begun: www.ptfaprogram.com/intro Oh dear. Happy Dog, you perhaps erred in saying 'argue' rather than 'prove'. Although, in fairness this guy did *say* he had "all the proof you need"; he obviously didn't feel the need to share it with anybody though. Cathy >> > OK. Pick a claim that Barret makes and argue here that it's completely >> > wrong. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> That will be my pleasure! I followed this thread for a while and finally >> decided I couldn't resist anymore and had to offer my 2 cents. I <snip manic bullshit about a "vitamin" sold by a proven crook> >> Regards, >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >need"; he obviously didn't feel the need to share it with anybody >though. He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that Christianity is now distributed via a pyramid scheme. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. Past criminal or not, we strongly believe in his product. And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that > Christianity is now distributed via a pyramid scheme. Yes I am a Believer and Christianity has always been distributed via the networking/mlm (word-of-mouth) model just like Atheism and just about everything else. Pyramids are illegal. Network marketing/MLM is not. My religion has nothing to do with the vitamin. Trying the vitamins has nothing to do with an income opportunity unless that is your desire. BTW, it's not an MLM. Again, we believe in the product and what we think it can do for the people who take a chance with it. That's the reason we promote it. Not for monetary gain as you insinuate. > -- > Peter Bowditch aa #2243 > The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles > Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au > Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au > To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com If it works it works. You and nobody else can discredit that. If it didn't he would have been shut down 3 years ago. It's amazing to me that someone can give it a *negative review* who has not even tried it or knows someone who has. You would rather hit us with the "well I heard" line. That is completely idiotic and irresponsible. -- Regards, Revelation ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in City of Angels >> He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. > > Past criminal or not, we strongly believe in his product. You are entitled to believe what you will. I believe that your defense of him and his crap destroys any semblence of credibility you may have. > And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > networking/mlm (word-of-mouth) model just like Atheism and just about > everything else. Pyramids are illegal. Network marketing/MLM is not. While that is technically true, it is one heck of a way to inflate prices...one of the mantras of the AltWorld is follow the money, and, with MLM, there is sure a lot of money floating around. My > religion has nothing to do with the vitamin. Trying the vitamins has > nothing to do with an income opportunity unless that is your desire. > BTW, it's not an MLM. Again, we believe in the product and what we think > it can do for the people who take a chance with it. That's the reason we > promote it. Not for monetary gain as you insinuate. It is not MLM? Then it is direct sale from manufacture? >> Peter Bowditch aa #2243 >> The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If it works it works. You and nobody else can discredit that. How about proving it works? If it > didn't he would have been shut down 3 years ago. Wrong. That is absolutely inaccurate. There is scant regulation of the claims of these salescreeps. It's amazing to me that > someone can give it a *negative review* who has not even tried it or > knows someone who has. You would rather hit us with the "well I heard" > line. That is completely idiotic and irresponsible. I can give jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge a negative review without ever having done it. Sometimes, the use of the brain to weigh facts, etc. can lead to such decision making. The "try it, you'll like it" school of marketing is bogus. > >> He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. > > > > Past criminal or not, we strongly believe in his product. > > You are entitled to believe what you will. I believe that your defense > of him and his crap destroys any semblance of credibility you may have. What basis do you have to call it crap? Have you even tried the product? Recommending an effective product can never take away from my credibility. You have no idea who you're even talking to. And 9.9 times out of 10, I am more credible than you will ever be. You have some nerve. > > And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > prices...one of the mantras of the AltWorld is follow the money, and, > with MLM, there is sure a lot of money floating around. What does this have to do with anything? I don't care if it costs $100, I will buy it if it is as good as it is claimed to be and especially more so with a money back guarantee. That's a no brainer. I've thrown away more money going out to dinner. You seem like the type of person going through life rejecting absolutely everything that just is and justify your beliefs with your intelligence that is derived from the supposed intelligence of other men. Anything GOOD in your opinion just can't be if man isn't responsible for it. Most of the time experience is the best teacher if you're not wise enough to discern when something is just good. With that way of thinking "men" will be your downfall. > My > > religion has nothing to do with the vitamin. Trying the vitamins has [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It is not MLM? Then it is direct sale from manufacture? Do car dealerships functions as MLM? No they do not and you don't buy directly from the auto manufacturer. When someone places an order for the vitamins, they are actually placing the order directly on the Greatest Vitamin's web site. The order is processed and shipped directly from them. I don't have bottles in my possession except for those I take daily. I will simply receive a *referral* fee. This practice happens everyday all over the world. Most web sites call them affiliates. > >> Peter Bowditch aa #2243 > >> The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How about proving it works? The ingredients are proved to do what they claim and this proof just happens to come from the medical and science societies indicated in the references section of the site. Taking it is the only way to really prove that it works for you just like with prescription medications. What kind of foolish request is this? > If it > > didn't he would have been shut down 3 years ago. > > Wrong. That is absolutely inaccurate. There is scant regulation of the > claims of these salescreeps. You're wrong and being good friends with an Attorney General who polices these type of companies, if any claim that they make is unsubstantiated, the will be immediately reprimanded by the AG, FTC and FDA, Their operations will be completely suspended during a mandatory investigation. The documentation they use is constantly reviewed by the aforementioned governmental bodies as well. > It's amazing to me that > > someone can give it a *negative review* who has not even tried it or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ever having done it. Sometimes, the use of the brain to weigh facts, > etc. can lead to such decision making. You have no facts about the product to weigh. Most importantly, not even your own experience with it as a fact or even someone you personally know who has experienced it. How asinine is that? > The "try it, you'll like it" school of marketing is bogus. The "don't try it, because we or anyone we know hasn't, but we still know" school of marketing is idiotic and deceptive. I guess you're the only one in the world who hasn't fell victim to clever marketing and advertising. Sometimes you're glad you did and sometimes you're not. One thing is for sure though. Falling for it was the only sure way to know the truth about it. > > -- > > Regards, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage > > in City of Angels -- Regards, Revelation ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage in City of Angels "Marked Pervert" is a big troll in these groups. It took a while for his head to pop up again though. He is part of a large crowd of hecklers that never have anything to say or discuss only "prove it" or "show me cites" or "your full of crap". They have created their own fear environment and never say anything as a result for fear other will treat them like they treat others. "Pizza Girl." <nos.pam@5.me> wrote in message > "Marked Pervert" is a big troll in these groups. It took a while for his > head to pop up again though. > > He is part of a large crowd of hecklers that never have anything to say or > discuss only "prove it" or "show me cites" or "your full of crap". After reading some of your posts, I'm curious; do you have any substantive arguments against his claims? FWIW, I think he spends way too much time talking to idiots like Jan. But, I welcome the challenge of resisting the siren call of your fabulous arguments. Got one? moo >"Pizza Girl." <nos.pam@5.me> wrote in message >> "Marked Pervert" is a big troll in these groups. It took a while for his [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >talking to idiots like Jan. But, I welcome the challenge of resisting the >siren call of your fabulous arguments. Got one? It's always a sign of lack of any substantive argument when someone makes fun of their adversary's name. This sort of rock-bottom ad hominem is usually abandoned by intelligent people by the time they are 10 years old. >>"Pizza Girl." <nos.pam@5.me> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > fun of their adversary's name. This sort of rock-bottom ad hominem is > usually abandoned by intelligent people by the time they are 10 years old. I do it, but I call the process "descriptive re-naming" since it is based on the person's behavior. Now stop trying win points with me Proberto...LOL > I do it, but I call the process "descriptive re-naming" since it is > based on the person's behavior. >>I do it, but I call the process "descriptive re-naming" since it is >>based on the person's behavior. > > Now stop trying win points with me Proberto...LOL I would not waste my time doing that. Is this your first post here? > In article <vPTUe.14$1G4.3434@news20.bellglobal.com>, > It's always a sign of lack of any substantive argument when someone makes > fun of their adversary's name. This sort of rock-bottom ad hominem is > usually abandoned by intelligent people by the time they are 10 years old. > "Marked Pervert" is a big troll in these groups. Sorry, but you are eight slices short of a pie. Trolls do not hang around It took a while for his > head to pop up again though. Not really, since I never left. > He is part of a large crowd of hecklers that never have anything to say or > discuss only "prove it" or "show me cites" or "your full of crap". They have > created their own fear environment and never say anything as a result for > fear other will treat them like they treat others. So, you are into projection. >> >> He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What basis do you have to call it crap? The marketing of it tells me that it is 'crap' in the sense that it is merely a highly inflated priced vitamin. The marketing makes all sorts of nebulous claims which is the hallmark of a huckster like Lapre. > Have you even tried the product? No need to. I maintain a healthy, balanced diet. > Recommending an effective product can never take away from my > credibility. Effective for what? Nebulous symptoms which wax and wane on their own? > You have no idea who you're even talking to. So, tell me. And 9.9 times > out of 10, I am more credible than you will ever be. You have some nerve. You sure do have a high opinion of yourself. >> > And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I will buy it if it is as good as it is claimed to be and especially > more so with a money back guarantee. Effective for what? Personal experience does not count in this regard. > That's a no brainer. That is *precisely* what Lapre and the other hucksters are counting on. I've thrown > away more money going out to dinner. You seem like the type of person > going through life rejecting absolutely everything that just is and > justify your beliefs with your intelligence that is derived from the > supposed intelligence of other men. Not really...but the explanation would be wasted on you. Anything GOOD in your opinion just > can't be if man isn't responsible for it. Most of the time experience is > the best teacher if you're not wise enough to discern when something is > just good. With that way of thinking "men" will be your downfall. Irrelevant. >> My >> > religion has nothing to do with the vitamin. Trying the vitamins has [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > daily. I will simply receive a *referral* fee. This practice happens > everyday all over the world. Most web sites call them affiliates. Yeah...I read up on the system of how Lapre scams people. You may be one of the lucky ones. >> >> Peter Bowditch aa #2243 >> >> The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > prove that it works for you just like with prescription medications. > What kind of foolish request is this? Asking for proof is never foolish. Weaseling out of providing it, is. >> If it >> > didn't he would have been shut down 3 years ago. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > investigation. The documentation they use is constantly reviewed by the > aforementioned governmental bodies as well. The claims that are made are, at best, nebulous, and, thus do not run afoul of the government regulators. >> It's amazing to me that >> > someone can give it a *negative review* who has not even tried it or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > your own experience with it as a fact or even someone you personally > know who has experienced it. How asinine is that? The asinine quotient is zero. >> The "try it, you'll like it" school of marketing is bogus. > > The "don't try it, because we or anyone we know hasn't, but we still > know" school of marketing is idiotic and deceptive. So you say, but, then, that would be bad for business. > I guess you're the only one in the world who hasn't fell victim to > clever marketing and advertising. Au contraire...but not any more if I can help it. Sometimes you're glad you did and > sometimes you're not. One thing is for sure though. Falling for it was > the only sure way to know the truth about it. >> > Regards, >> > >> > Revelation >> > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- >> > "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage >> > in City of Angels >>> >> He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. >>> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > No need to. I maintain a healthy, balanced diet. If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. >> Recommending an effective product can never take away from my >> credibility. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You sure do have a high opinion of yourself. That's 22222 funny,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,coming from ye ole hypocrite Mark who brags on himself. >>> > And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that >>> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Effective for what? Personal experience does not count in this regard. Unless it comes form Mark, he conveniently has an ancedote for most every story here, this is a keeper. >> That's a no brainer. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Not really...but the explanation would be wasted on you. ZZzz. > Anything GOOD in your opinion just >> can't be if man isn't responsible for it. Most of the time experience is >> the best teacher if you're not wise enough to discern when something is >> just good. With that way of thinking "men" will be your downfall. > > Irrelevant. WRONG. MOST RELEVANT!!!!!!! >>> My >>> > religion has nothing to do with the vitamin. Trying the vitamins has [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >>> >> Peter Bowditch <snip proven lying werbsites + spam >>> > If it works it works. You and nobody else can discredit that. >>> >>> How about proving it works? >> The ingredients are proved to do what they claim and this proof just >> happens to come from the medical and science societies indicated in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Asking for proof is never foolish. Weaseling out of providing it, is. Mark is an expert on that one! He has done lots of Weaseling. >>> If it >>> > didn't he would have been shut down 3 years ago. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > The asinine quotient is zero. IN your opinion, which in MHO amounts to ZERO. >>> The "try it, you'll like it" school of marketing is bogus. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>> > "Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage >>> > in City of Angels >>>>>>He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > That's 22222 funny,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,coming from ye ole hypocrite Mark who > brags on himself. Horsehit, bigot. You made a gratuitous snide remark about me and Katrina, and I pointed out the work I was doing. I do not let your crap slip by. >>>>>And he claims to be some sort of Christian too, although it seems that >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Unless it comes form Mark, he conveniently has an ancedote for most every > story here, this is a keeper. No, stupid, I do not have an anecdote for every story. >>>That's a no brainer. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ZZzz. Typical response from No-Mind Drew. >>Anything GOOD in your opinion just >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > WRONG. MOST RELEVANT!!!!!!! Right, IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Extra ! for Jan). >>>>My >>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Mark is an expert on that one! Yes, I catch you every time. > He has done lots of Weaseling. Weasel catching that is. >>>> If it >>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > IN your opinion, which in MHO amounts to ZERO. Stop bragging about the raise in your IQ. >>>>The "try it, you'll like it" school of marketing is bogus. >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>>>"Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage >>>>>in City of Angels >>>>>>>He seems to have the sales pitch for a criminal down well, though. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] >> >> WRONG. MOST RELEVANT!!!!!!! <snip> >>>>>My >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >> He has done lots of Weaseling. <snip lie> >>>>> If it >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>>>>>"Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - Nicolas Cage >>>>>>in City of Angels Nothing except a lot of snipping. >If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. What's your opinion on heroin, Jan? Marijuana? Ecstasy? Crack cocaine? Crystal meth? Drinking methyl alcohol? Tamoxiphen for cancer? RU248 to induce abortion? Perhaps I should add Ritalin. If you haven't tried it, YOU can NOT judge it. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Perhaps I should add Ritalin. If you haven't tried it, YOU can NOT > judge it. Do you suppose if Jan tried a little pakalolo she might mellow out a bit? ;o) Rich >>>If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >;o) Rich Oh, yes! SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>>>If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. >>> >>> What's your opinion on heroin, Jan? Marijuana? Ecstasy? Crack cocaine? >>> Crystal meth? Drinking methyl alcohol? Tamoxiphen for cancer? RU248 to >>> induce abortion? I missed this harrassing posts. The answer is, I have not tried these and they are not products. >>> Perhaps I should add Ritalin. If you haven't tried it, YOU can NOT >>> judge it. Ritalin is not a product it is a drug. I can judge it, I have seen the results of it. >>Do you suppose if Jan tried a little pakalolo she might mellow out a bit? I don't need to mellow. A pity Rich and Peter need to use pakalolo. >>;o) Rich > > Oh, yes! <snip lying proven websites + spam from one who uses pakalolo> It matters not what the subject is, Richard H Jacobson sees my name and starts foaming at the mouth. His pattern of cyberstalking and badgering started long before me, I just happened to be his current target, all others he has run off, boo hoo, he has failed to do that with me. See his pattern here: http://tinyurl.com/39u2g http://tinyurl.com/2vxcl http://tinyurl.com/2nbzc http://tinyurl.com/3gzhf Cue for Richard H Jacobson/akaRich..@.. to post with his usual cyberstalking and attacking me. Just watch. Just like clockwork. Sorry to belabor the obvious. Somethings are so predictable -------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Best defense to logic is ignorance >>>>Perhaps I should add Ritalin. If you haven't tried it, YOU can NOT >>>>judge it. > > Ritalin is not a product it is a drug. I can judge it, I have seen the > results of it. It is a product of a pharmaceutial manufacturer. You sure do like to play Weaseling by Semantics. >>>Do you suppose if Jan tried a little pakalolo she might mellow out a bit? > > I don't need to mellow. Yes, Jan, you need to mellow. >>>>>If you haven't tried the product, YOU can NOT judge it. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I missed this harrassing posts. The answer is, I have not tried these and >they are not products. Tamoxiphen is not a product? RU-468 (sorry I LIED about the real name) is not a product? Products are things which are produced. Do all of these things grow on plants? Oh, I forgot, that would |
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