 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / General / Alternative / August 2005Murder by Chelation
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05236/559444.stm http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05237/559756.stm "A 5-year-old autistic boy died Tuesday in a Butler County doctor's office while undergoing an increasingly popular though controversial medical treatment touted by some as a cure for the lifelong neurological and developmental disorder." "Authorities said Kerry's office reported that the child was receiving an IV treatment for lead poisoning when he went into cardiac arrest." Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. > Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. A diagnoses of "lead poisoning" has been found convenient in other cases.... http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelationfraud.html "Because chelation has legitimate use for treating heavy metal poisoning, some chelation therapists submit fraudulent insurance reports claiming to have treated lead poisoning or another alleged toxic state" Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. http://www.quackwatch.org/14Legal/hough.html The suit charges that: <snip> *During the last treatment, Hough's heart stopped beating. Although he was resuscitated, he suffered a heart attack and was left with permanent damage to his heart. > Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack > although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > damage > to his heart. This is a from a lawsuit. Law suits are rarely about the truth. EDTA binds to calcium. What may have happened is that the EDTA bound up a lot of calcium in the fluid around that heart cells, making that calcium unavailable to the heart. The heart needs calcium to pump. Without the calcium, the heart was unable to beat. But, as I said, the information is from a lawsuit. We won't know what really happened. Something similar happened in the 1980s, I think at Children's Hospital of PA. A child died, and they changed the protocol to make sure that the EDTA was slowly infused. Jeff >This is a from a lawsuit. Law suits are rarely about the truth. Perhaps we should do away with all of those pesky lawsuits and lawyers. And all laws while we're at it. Then everyone will only have to do as the scientists command. But not just any scientist, because what if the scientists don't agree? Well then, it's only the scientists who are working for the government funded healthcare agencies that we'll have to obey. They are the ones, the only ones, who can be trusted to understand the truth. Why do those pesky unwashed masses of laypeople have to make everything so complicated? Here is some interesting reading, if you are oppositionally defiant enough to look beyond what 'scientists' shouting hysterically about how uneducated and f.cking stupid you are would like you to believe: Beyond thimerosal -- A question of arrogance http://craigwestover.blogspot.com/2005/08/beyond-thimerosal-question-of.html > >This is a from a lawsuit. Law suits are rarely about the truth. > > Perhaps we should do away with all of those pesky lawsuits and lawyers. Why? Laws provide clear rules for people and companies to behave. And lawsuits provide a way to address people and companies when they break the rules. I didn't say the lawsuit was inappropriate. I did imply that lawsuits are not a good way to learn the truth. <garbage deleted> >>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > This is a from a lawsuit. Law suits are rarely about the truth. We know that, Jeff. However, if a lawsuit proves anything to support AltMed claims, it has, by Logic, got to support other claims. > EDTA binds to calcium. What may have happened is that the EDTA bound up a > lot of calcium in the fluid around that heart cells, making that calcium [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jeff >>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > We know that, Jeff. However, if a lawsuit proves anything to support > AltMed claims, it has, by Logic, got to support other claims. Far be it from Mark Probert to use a lawsuit in his favor. No known deaths"Aug 28, Poor, pathetic, hypocrite, Mark Probert. >> EDTA binds to calcium. What may have happened is that the EDTA bound up a >> lot of calcium in the fluid around that heart cells, making that calcium [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Jeff >>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Poor, pathetic, hypocrite, Mark Probert. Nothing hypocritical there, janny-poop. I pointed out that there is a suit alleging that there is another death due to CHEATlation. Alties do that all the time. >>>EDTA binds to calcium. What may have happened is that the EDTA bound up a >>>lot of calcium in the fluid around that heart cells, making that calcium [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> >>>Jeff BTW, Janny, I see how the anti-vac liars are going to spin this tragic death to avoid the hard question, i.e. is cheatlation a viable treatment for autism. They just need to make their big bucks. >Poor, pathetic, hypocrite, Mark Probert. Jan Drew aka Lady Lollipop says it is ALWAYS wrong to belittle. Jan Drew who claims to be a Christian is a lying hypocrite. Aloha, Rich ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Best defense to logic is ignorance >>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > We know that, Jeff. However, if a lawsuit proves anything to support > AltMed claims, it has, by Logic, got to support other claims. In the past, I claimed that lawsuits do not have valid scientific standing as evidence. By logic, this lawsuit would not be valid scientific evidence, either. Doing otherwise would be hypocritically. Jeff >> EDTA binds to calcium. What may have happened is that the EDTA bound up a >> lot of calcium in the fluid around that heart cells, making that calcium [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Jeff >>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Doing otherwise would be hypocritically. Agreed. However, I also apply the sauce/goose/gander argument to those who use suits as proof. Of course, they reject that, as the suit I am using calls into question one of their firmly held beliefs. > Jeff > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>> >>>Jeff > Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack > although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. > > http://www.QUACK >>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. >> >>http://www.QUACK Jan cannot handle the turth. >>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. >>> >>>http://www.QUACK > > Jan cannot handle the turth. The *truth* is far beyond Mark Probert. The *truth* is: Here is the photo of the man behind the web sitehttp://www.quackwatch.com/index.html. He often attacks various health products and practices by making false claims about them, as if those claims came FROM them, and then knocks down these straw men of his own device. ****One of the most ***evil*** people on the web is a former psychiatrist who lashes out against just about every possible alternative health product or practice. It is, in fact, a hall of fame. If you are mentioned in his pages you can assume you are doing a good job! He attacks chelation therapy, of course, but he selects a "straw man" to attack. In other words, the early explanation of how chelation therapy works is well proven to be false, event hough many people are still repeating those lies. But, the more thoughtful intravenous doctors have discarded this early theory and gone on to the second theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found effective in chelating and removing toxic metals from the blood, some scientists postulated that hardened arteries could be softened ifthe calcium in their walls was removed. The first indication that EDTA treatment might benefit patients with atherosclerosis came from Clarke, Clarke,and Mosher, who, in 1956, reported that patients with occlusive peripheralvascular disease said they felt better after treatment with EDTA [AmericanJournal of Medical Science 230:654-666, 1956]. (Source) http://drcranton.com/chelation/rebuttal.htm BUSTING THE QUACKBUSTERS REBUTTAL TO "QUACKWATCH" WEBSITE OPPOSING CHELATION THERAPY: By Elmer M. Cranton, M.D. There exist a number of self-styled medical thought-police types who call themselves "quack busters." They are fond of attacking alternative and emerging medical therapies in favor of the existing medical monopoly. They even have their own Quackwatch Internet website. It is uncertain where the money comes from to fund those efforts, but it might be enlightening to trace that money back to its original source. One investigator alleges that funding comes from pharmaceutical manufacturers. For years these so-called quackbusters have attacked nutritional supplementation with high potency multi-vitamins as "quackery." As summarized elsewhere on this website (Nutrition In The News), recent scientific studies now prove that virtually anyone can benefit from nutritional supplementation. With egg on their faces from this recent vitamin research, those same critics continue to attack chelation therapy. I will now answer, point by point, an article on the Quackwatch website by Dr. Saul Green entitled "CHELATION THERAPY: UNPROVEN CLAIMS AND UNSOUND THEORIES," in which Dr. Green attempts to discredit EDTA chelation using half-truths, speculation, and false statements. ALSO Click Here to read: A MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR BUSTS THE QUACKBUSTERS Opponents and critics of EDTA chelation, such as Saul Green, rarely state that chelation "does not work" or that chelation is "proven not to work." Instead they merely state that it is "unproven." They are evasive and set a double standard. Bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and close to 80% of all other therapies routinely used by medical doctors in everyday practice are also "unproven," using those same unreasonable standards. Most widely-accepted and traditional medical therapies have never been subjected to double-blind, placebo controlled clinical trials costing many millions of dollars?as demanded by opponents of chelation therapy. Detractors of chelation therapy insist that large, multimillion-dollar studies be performed, giving half the patients a placebo, with the placebo group "blinded"?unknown to the investigators until the study is complete (called "double-blind" because neither the doctors nor the patients know who gets the placebo and who gets the active medication). Drug companies are required by the FDA to test new prescription drugs in this manner before they can make marketing claims. On the other hand, bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and most other widely accepted medical procedures have never been subjected to that type of testing. Because patent protection has long since expired on EDTA, there is no source of funding for such a study. N.I.H., the government source for research money, has repeatedly refused to fund a research grant to study EDTA chelation. Saul Green makes an issue of an FTC ruling in 1998 relating to advertising for EDTA chelation therapy. Because the FDA has not yet approved EDTA chelation therapy for treatment of atherosclerosis, the FTC ruled that it is not proper to imply otherwise in advertisements to the lay public. The informed consent provided to patients by chelation doctors has always made that fact clear, but once again politically powerful critics of chelation therapy have generated adverse publicity, using what was essentially a non-issue. That FTC ruling was based partly on their opinion that professional physicians associations, such as the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), should not advertise directly to the lay public. The FTC ruling does not apply to the doctor patient relationship. Training courses on chelation therapy continue to be given to practicing physicians twice yearly by ACAM. Drug companies quickly patent their newly developed remedies, which allows them to charge high prices (usually a dollar or more per capsule, sometimes much more) to recapture their millions of dollars in expenses for the FDA-required double blind studies. EDTA is a generic drug. Patent protection expired many years ago. Double-blind placebo studies of adequate size have therefore never been funded and probably will not be funded in the future unless N.I.H. or a private foundation can be convinced to do so with either public or philanthropic funds. (In 2002 a $30 million research proposal for a multi-center study of EDTA chelation therapy is under consideration by N.I.H. Let's all hope that it gets funded.) Many highly positive smaller studies have been published proving EDTA chelation therapy, reporting objective measurements of before and after improvements. Statistical analyses of those improvements are highly significant. Summaries of those studies can be read on the following webpage: Chelation Research. A chapter from my recent book, Bypassing Bypass Surgery, summarizes the vast amount of research supporting EDTA chelation therapy. Those studies that support EDTA chelation are good science and are scientifically valid. Only if it is assumed that placebo effect could cause long-term, sustained increases in objective blood flow measurements to the brain, heart and extremities through diseased arteries can those studies be ignored. Placebo effect has never been observed to last more than 6 months. Benefit from chelation therapy comes on slowly; increasing for 3 to 5 months after treatment is complete and persisting for years after a course of therapy. Placebo benefit has never acted that way. Saul Green's quackbuster attack on chelation therapy states that those published studies are poorly designed and therefore meaningless. I challenge any educated lay reader to review those studies and not be impressed. It always desirable to have bigger and better studies. There is always room for improvement. That same statement could be made about any study ever published. All of the existing clinical data is positive and highly significant on statistical analysis. Independent researchers, at different research facilities, using different technology, were able to duplicate the positive findings of increased blood flow through blocked arteries. Statistical analysis continues to show consistent high significance. The bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty industries gross upwards of $6 billion per year. The cardiovascular drug industry takes in upwards of $100 billion dollars per year. If the existing studies of chelation therapy were to be accepted as valid, those industries would suffer enormous losses. They have no reason to want to see chelation therapy accepted. In recent years opponents of chelation have published several a number of small sham studies, falsely alleging that EDTA chelation does not work. In every instance those studies were actually supportive of EDTA chelation therapy, but they contained an erroneous conclusion otherwise. Click here for an analysis of deceptive studies. The recent PATCH study in Calgary, Canada, is a truly blatant example of that practice. That kind of junk science proves nothing, and the studies cited actually contain evidence to support EDTA chelation therapy. Nonetheless, they are quickly published in mainstream medical journals, interspersed with full-page, four-color advertisements for new and expensive pharmaceutical drugs. The news media then prominently print articles stating that EDTA chelation therapy has been proven not to work. A wise consumer will review all existing sources of information and then make up his or her own mind about what is best. A Ford salesman will most likely tell you that a Ford is superior to a Chevrolet and vice versa. Consumers should be allowed to decide what feels right for them, without being subjected to a "time-bomb-in-chest" hard-sell, with a high-pressure, frightening sales pitch at a time when they are highly vulnerable. Treadmills and angiograms are very effective and can be frightening marketing tools leading to expensive, dangerous and often unnecessary therapies. Mark Twain once said that, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." A similar statement could be made about cardiologists, whose only tool is a catheter with balloon attached, or surgeons with their scalpels. The same might also be said of a chelation therapist. Buyer beware! Be an informed consumer. Every therapist has their own bias. Saul Green writes that the Kitchell, Meltzer reappraisal study in 1963 showed no significant benefit. I have described their exact data on the following webpage: Chelation Critics Deceive the Public. You decide for yourself if you think it shows significant benefit or not. For political, economic and other unknown reasons, researchers occasionally interpret their data in a way that fits their personal prejudices, either positive or negative. When an unbiased, objective appraisal is made of that same data, the opposite conclusion can sometimes be supported. That has happened repeatedly with chelation therapy. The facts are presented (Chelation Critics Deceive the Public) to enable readers to form their own opinions. Saul Green states that chelation is "not recognized by the scientific community." That is not true unless it is assumed that the many highly trained physicians who administer chelation therapy are not scientific. He engages in name-calling. Doctors who disagree with Saul Green are called unscientific. Various segments of the medical community join together in professional associations with the goal of protecting their turf and maintaining a monopoly in their field as much as possible. It is not justified for one such group to state that other medical scientists who disagree are "unscientific." This merely represents a disagreement between experts, between differing factions of the medical profession-a common occurrence in any profession. Emerging, complimentary and alternative therapies often confront that type of bias. Saul Green writes that at least fifteen different reports document that EDTA did not benefit patients. That is not true! For the most part, he cites letters to the editor, which report an occasional treatment failure. No therapy is 100% effective and treatment failures do occur with EDTA. However, more than 85% of patients have been helped. These anecdotal reports of treatment failures are used by critics, but anecdotal reports of treatment success are rejected by critics. This represents more evidence of the double standard. Saul Green also misrepresents the the unscientific studies previously mentioned as documenting that EDTA chelation does not work, Chelation Critics Deceive the Public. Arteriograms before and after treatment are demanded by critics to prove benefit from chelation therapy. It is not possible, however, to accurately measure decreases in atherosclerotic plaque unless the diameter of the artery is increased by approximately 25%. In the presence of turbulent blood flow past plaques, it requires only a 10% increase in arterial diameter to double the flow of blood (Poiseuille's Law of hemodynamics as can be found in any textbook of medical physiology or biophysics). As proven in studies, arteriograms and ultrasound are not sensitive enough to consistently measure changes of less than 25% in the diameter of a blood vessel. Increases much less than that can greatly relieve or totally eliminate symptoms, and are not detectable on arteriograms. Studies which measure heart and organ function and total blood flow consistently prove that EDTA chelation therapy is highly beneficial. If patients improve their physical endurance, if exercise tolerance increases and if symptoms improve, that provides good scientific evidence of benefit. If measurements of walking distance on a treadmill with an uphill incline consistently increase after treatment and with statistical significance, that is valid scientific proof of benefit. Angiograms are not sensitive enough to measure even a doubling in blood flow. Angiograms are marketing tools frequently used to justify bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty; however, angiograms cannot show increases in arterial diameter that can increase blood flow by 200% or more. They do, however, show the surgeons where to cut and are necessary to place a balloon or stent in angioplasty. And sometimes those procedures are necessary. Saul Green is in error when he states that the Curt Diehm study in Germany did not show benefit. The raw data from that study has been analyzed by medical school professors in the United States and found to be highly positive, as documented in detail on the following webpage: Critique of the Heidelberg Study. Patients who received EDTA increased their walking distance by an average of 400%, compared to 60% increase in the control group patients, who received an active drug, not a placebo. The manufacturer of the control drug funded the study and reserved the right to manipulate and report the data in their own way. Patients who responded best were eliminated from the final data. Final results were measured immediately, 3 months before full improvement from EDTA could be expected. Analysis of raw data from that study proves that EDTA chelation therapy was highly effective in treating arterial blockage in the legs. The adverse side effects described by Saul Green were reported many years ago when massive doses of EDTA were infused in a very short time. Any medicine given in overdose can cause harm. There are no documented reports of harm when EDTA has been administered using the currently approved protocol. In rare reports of adverse side-effects, the current protocol was not followed. Even when administered improperly, 10 deaths in a million patients indicates that chelation is infinitely safer than surgery or balloon angioplasty, which result in death from complications in approximately 3 out of every hundred patients treated. Fifty thousand people die in automobile accidents every year and another 200,000 are seriously injured. I tell my patients that the drive to the clinic in an automobile to get chelation therapy is statistically far more dangerous that the chelation they receive after they arrive. More than 8,000 deaths and 200,000 hospitalizations each year result from complications of ibuprofen, naproxen, aspirin and other widely accepted pain remedies, many of which are available without prescription. EDTA chelation therapy is infinitely safer than even those treatments. Critics of chelation therapy never put things in proper perspective. Saul Green goes on to speculate about a number of theoretical reasons why chelation therapy might possibly be dangerous. He completely ignores the amazing safety record of a million patients who have received the therapy. The dangers of surgery and angioplasty are well proven, not just theoretical?three percent death rate and twenty percent or more serious but non-fatal complications. It is not necessary to merely speculate why invasive procedures might possibly cause harm. Saul Green's statements about why chelation might be dangerous have not been supported by more than 40 years of experience. The Danish study mentioned by Saul Green was misrepresented and proved nothing. It was actually a positive study and showed benefit from chelation therapy. Saul Green states that the FDA once had EDTA chelation on their list of "Health Care Frauds." The FDA has long since removed chelation therapy from that list, and for good reason. Why did they do that? >>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart attack >>>>although this patient was 55 and possibly at risk.. [quoted text clipped - 360 lines] > list, > and for good reason. Why did they do that? ...>> theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found >> effective >> in chelating and removing toxic metals from the blood, some scientists [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Science >> 230:654-666, 1956]. (Source) So what 5 year old has problems that should be chelated? Hardened arteries? Atherosclerosis? Too much calcium in his blood... which the EDTA may conveniently removed, which may have lead hypocalcemia --- which could cause heart failure. >> http://drcranton.com/chelation/rebuttal.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> funding >> comes from pharmaceutical manufacturers. So... The EDTA is not manufactured by a pharmaceutical company? Is it made in a the practitioners kitchen table? Much like Hugh Fudenberg's cure made with his own bone marrow? http://briandeer.com/wakefield/biotherapy-paper.htm >> For years these so-called quackbusters have attacked nutritional >> supplementation with high potency multi-vitamins as "quackery." As [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> A MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR BUSTS THE QUACKBUSTERS ....>> Many highly positive smaller studies have been published proving EDTA >> chelation >> therapy, reporting objective measurements of before and after [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> vast >> amount of research supporting EDTA chelation therapy. It has now been proven with one case study to kill children. >> Those studies that support EDTA chelation are good science and are >> scientifically valid. Only if it is assumed that placebo effect could [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> therapy. >> Placebo benefit has never acted that way. Placebos often do not result in death... Except for homeopathy --- death has occured when people needing real medicine are convinced to stop and use homeopathy. .....>> Fifty thousand people die in automobile accidents every year and another >> 200,000 are seriously injured. I tell my patients that the drive to the >> clinic >> in an automobile to get chelation therapy is statistically far more >> dangerous >> that the chelation they receive after they arrive. ... So this was written by someone who runs a chelation clinic? Do the anti-chelation studies cause him a drop in business? This is a few years old... I did check his website, and by a saving grace he does NOT treat children. That is one thing in his favor.. though he does have this goof-ball note at http://drcranton.com/tmp/autism.htm ... "What seems overlooked is the fact that MMR vaccine contains 3 different attenuated live viruses, all of a type that can infect the brain and potentially cause brain damage. In light of a number of equivocal and contradictory research studies attempting to incriminate the mercury preservative in this vaccine, the live virus explanation needs more study." MMR does NOT have thimerosal. That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping Therefore, I will NOT reply and further snip, ALL written by dishonest HCN. > ...>> theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found >>> effective [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] >>> dangerous >>> that the chelation they receive after they arrive. ... > That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping > > Therefore, I will NOT reply and further snip, ALL written by dishonest > HCN. HA! YOU are the one who selectively snips. You carefully cut out any comments that make you uncomfortable and that you cannot intelligently refute. You are the Queen of snipping. To accuse others of snipping is the height of hypocrisy.  Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ Poor, Rich, get a life. >> That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping >> >> Therefore, I will NOT reply and further snip, ALL written by dishonest >> HCN. > > HA! > Poor, Rich, get a life. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> HA! Thus proving my point. > That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping > > Therefore, I will NOT reply and further snip, ALL written by dishonest HCN. While HCN did not properly snip me out, I adopt whatever HCN said. You just cannot handle the truth. >>...>> theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found >> [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >>>>dangerous >>>>that the chelation they receive after they arrive. ... <snip same ole, same ole> >> That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping >> >> Therefore, I will NOT reply and further snip, ALL written by dishonest >> HCN. >>>...>> theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found >>> [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] >>>>>dangerous >>>>>that the chelation they receive after they arrive. ... > <snip same ole, same ole> Yes, Jan, with you it is the SOS evry time someone posts something intelligent that you either do not understand or realize that that it refutes your SOS. Here is what you snipped: While HCN did not properly snip me out, I adopt whatever HCN said. You just cannot handle the truth. Yes, Jan, you cannot handle the truth, and that is what HCN posted to you. >>>That makes NO sense with the *selective* snipping >>> [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>>>>>dangerous >>>>>>that the chelation they receive after they arrive. ... "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message news:AjlQe.1972...> > While HCN did not properly snip me out, I adopt whatever HCN said. > > You just cannot handle the truth. Sorry about that... I have LadyLoon in my kill-file. So I can only respond to replies to her... and I usually don't, but the ad for the guy who chelates for heart conditions had me wonder: What does chelating for heart conditions have to do with autism? > "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message > news:AjlQe.1972...> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What does chelating for heart conditions have to do with autism? In AltWorld, all treatments that are good for one thing are automatically good for everything. Thus, since chelation removes toxic lead, but does not repair the damage, it must also be good for removing arterial plaque. >>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart >>>>attack [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The *truth* is: The truth is, Cranton's tirade about "double-blinded placebo controlled studies" is bullshit that goes on and on about a non-issue. No one is demanding such studies of chelation because that type of experimentation just does not apply to invasive procedures. To do a double blind study of chelation, if it were even possible, would be as silly as doing a double blind study of appendectomies where the surgeons would operate on all patients, but would only take out the appendixes of half of them, and would not even know which half. Chelation either opens atherosclerotic arteries or it does not. The outcome is completely objective and not subject to placebo effect. So all that's needed to prove or disprove the procedure is to do angiography on a target group of patients, chelate those with demonstrated atherosclerosis, then repeat the angiographies and observe the results. If the coronary arteries are significantly more open after chelation, then so be it. It wouldn't even take thousands of subjects to prove the product. If eighty percent of a couple of hundred patients showed lasting improvement, that would be enough to get the attention of mainstream medicine. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ >>>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart >>>>>attack [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > patients, but would only take out the appendixes of half of them, and would > not even know which half. Hmmm...they could be blindfolded and the nurse could slip a Big Mac in their to emmulate the appendix...(that would be a good use for Big Macs). Cue jan to say that this is not about McDonald's. > Chelation either opens atherosclerotic arteries or it does not. The outcome > is completely objective and not subject to placebo effect. So all that's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > couple of hundred patients showed lasting improvement, that would be enough > to get the attention of mainstream medicine. You betcha. Imagine a treatment where the patient can come back to the office after 30 visits (at $1000 a visit) for years afterwards to have "maintenance chelation". If that is proven, I will liquidate all my assets and INVEST in that in a heart beat. I'll even send 1% of my massive profits to the Hulda Clark Defense Fund. ----snip--- >>>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart >>>>>attack [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> The *truth* is far beyond Mark Probert. The *truth* is Here is the photo of the man behind the web sitehttp://www.quackwatch.com/index.html. He often attacks various health products and practices by making false claims about them, as if those claims came FROM them, and then knocks down these straw men of his own device. ****One of the most ***evil*** people on the web is a former psychiatrist who lashes out against just about every possible alternative health product or practice. It is, in fact, a hall of fame. If you are mentioned in his pages you can assume you are doing a good job! He attacks chelation therapy, of course, but he selects a "straw man" to attack. In other words, the early explanation of how chelation therapy works is well proven to be false, event hough many people are still repeating those lies. But, the more thoughtful intravenous doctors have discarded this early theory and gone on to the second theory, mentioned on another page (Click Here).After EDTA was found effective in chelating and removing toxic metals from the blood, some scientists postulated that hardened arteries could be softened ifthe calcium in their walls was removed. The first indication that EDTA treatment might benefit patients with atherosclerosis came from Clarke, Clarke,and Mosher, who, in 1956, reported that patients with occlusive peripheralvascular disease said they felt better after treatment with EDTA [AmericanJournal of Medical Science 230:654-666, 1956]. (Source) http://drcranton.com/chelation/rebuttal.htm BUSTING THE QUACKBUSTERS REBUTTAL TO "QUACKWATCH" WEBSITE OPPOSING CHELATION THERAPY: By Elmer M. Cranton, M.D. There exist a number of self-styled medical thought-police types who call themselves "quack busters." They are fond of attacking alternative and emerging medical therapies in favor of the existing medical monopoly. They even have their own Quackwatch Internet website. It is uncertain where the money comes from to fund those efforts, but it might be enlightening to trace that money back to its original source. One investigator alleges that funding comes from pharmaceutical manufacturers. For years these so-called quackbusters have attacked nutritional supplementation with high potency multi-vitamins as "quackery." As summarized elsewhere on this website (Nutrition In The News), recent scientific studies now prove that virtually anyone can benefit from nutritional supplementation. With egg on their faces from this recent vitamin research, those same critics continue to attack chelation therapy. I will now answer, point by point, an article on the Quackwatch website by Dr. Saul Green entitled "CHELATION THERAPY: UNPROVEN CLAIMS AND UNSOUND THEORIES," in which Dr. Green attempts to discredit EDTA chelation using half-truths, speculation, and false statements. ALSO Click Here to read: A MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR BUSTS THE QUACKBUSTERS Opponents and critics of EDTA chelation, such as Saul Green, rarely state that chelation "does not work" or that chelation is "proven not to work." Instead they merely state that it is "unproven." They are evasive and set a double standard. Bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and close to 80% of all other therapies routinely used by medical doctors in everyday practice are also "unproven," using those same unreasonable standards. Most widely-accepted and traditional medical therapies have never been subjected to double-blind, placebo controlled clinical trials costing many millions of dollars?as demanded by opponents of chelation therapy. Detractors of chelation therapy insist that large, multimillion-dollar studies be performed, giving half the patients a placebo, with the placebo group "blinded"?unknown to the investigators until the study is complete (called "double-blind" because neither the doctors nor the patients know who gets the placebo and who gets the active medication). Drug companies are required by the FDA to test new prescription drugs in this manner before they can make marketing claims. On the other hand, bypass surgery, balloon angioplasty and most other widely accepted medical procedures have never been subjected to that type of testing. Because patent protection has long since expired on EDTA, there is no source of funding for such a study. N.I.H., the government source for research money, has repeatedly refused to fund a research grant to study EDTA chelation. Saul Green makes an issue of an FTC ruling in 1998 relating to advertising for EDTA chelation therapy. Because the FDA has not yet approved EDTA chelation therapy for treatment of atherosclerosis, the FTC ruled that it is not proper to imply otherwise in advertisements to the lay public. The informed consent provided to patients by chelation doctors has always made that fact clear, but once again politically powerful critics of chelation therapy have generated adverse publicity, using what was essentially a non-issue. That FTC ruling was based partly on their opinion that professional physicians associations, such as the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), should not advertise directly to the lay public. The FTC ruling does not apply to the doctor patient relationship. Training courses on chelation therapy continue to be given to practicing physicians twice yearly by ACAM. Drug companies quickly patent their newly developed remedies, which allows them to charge high prices (usually a dollar or more per capsule, sometimes much more) to recapture their millions of dollars in expenses for the FDA-required double blind studies. EDTA is a generic drug. Patent protection expired many years ago. Double-blind placebo studies of adequate size have therefore never been funded and probably will not be funded in the future unless N.I.H. or a private foundation can be convinced to do so with either public or philanthropic funds. (In 2002 a $30 million research proposal for a multi-center study of EDTA chelation therapy is under consideration by N.I.H. Let's all hope that it gets funded.) Many highly positive smaller studies have been published proving EDTA chelation therapy, reporting objective measurements of before and after improvements. Statistical analyses of those improvements are highly significant. Summaries of those studies can be read on the following webpage: Chelation Research. A chapter from my recent book, Bypassing Bypass Surgery, summarizes the vast amount of research supporting EDTA chelation therapy. Those studies that support EDTA chelation are good science and are scientifically valid. Only if it is assumed that placebo effect could cause long-term, sustained increases in objective blood flow measurements to the brain, heart and extremities through diseased arteries can those studies be ignored. Placebo effect has never been observed to last more than 6 months. Benefit from chelation therapy comes on slowly; increasing for 3 to 5 months after treatment is complete and persisting for years after a course of therapy. Placebo benefit has never acted that way. Saul Green's quackbuster attack on chelation therapy states that those published studies are poorly designed and therefore meaningless. I challenge any educated lay reader to review those studies and not be impressed. It always desirable to have bigger and better studies. There is always room for improvement. That same statement could be made about any study ever published. All of the existing clinical data is positive and highly significant on statistical analysis. Independent researchers, at different research facilities, using different technology, were able to duplicate the positive findings of increased blood flow through blocked arteries. Statistical analysis continues to show consistent high significance. The bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty industries gross upwards of $6 billion per year. The cardiovascular drug industry takes in upwards of $100 billion dollars per year. If the existing studies of chelation therapy were to be accepted as valid, those industries would suffer enormous losses. They have no reason to want to see chelation therapy accepted. In recent years opponents of chelation have published several a number of small sham studies, falsely alleging that EDTA chelation does not work. In every instance those studies were actually supportive of EDTA chelation therapy, but they contained an erroneous conclusion otherwise. Click here for an analysis of deceptive studies. The recent PATCH study in Calgary, Canada, is a truly blatant example of that practice. That kind of junk science proves nothing, and the studies cited actually contain evidence to support EDTA chelation therapy. Nonetheless, they are quickly published in mainstream medical journals, interspersed with full-page, four-color advertisements for new and expensive pharmaceutical drugs. The news media then prominently print articles stating that EDTA chelation therapy has been proven not to work. A wise consumer will review all existing sources of information and then make up his or her own mind about what is best. A Ford salesman will most likely tell you that a Ford is superior to a Chevrolet and vice versa. Consumers should be allowed to decide what feels right for them, without being subjected to a "time-bomb-in-chest" hard-sell, with a high-pressure, frightening sales pitch at a time when they are highly vulnerable. Treadmills and angiograms are very effective and can be frightening marketing tools leading to expensive, dangerous and often unnecessary therapies. Mark Twain once said that, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." A similar statement could be made about cardiologists, whose only tool is a catheter with balloon attached, or surgeons with their scalpels. The same might also be said of a chelation therapist. Buyer beware! Be an informed consumer. Every therapist has their own bias. Saul Green writes that the Kitchell, Meltzer reappraisal study in 1963 showed no significant benefit. I have described their exact data on the following webpage: Chelation Critics Deceive the Public. You decide for yourself if you think it shows significant benefit or not. For political, economic and other unknown reasons, researchers occasionally interpret their data in a way that fits their personal prejudices, either positive or negative. When an unbiased, objective appraisal is made of that same data, the opposite conclusion can sometimes be supported. That has happened repeatedly with chelation therapy. The facts are presented (Chelation Critics Deceive the Public) to enable readers to form their own opinions. Saul Green states that chelation is "not recognized by the scientific community." That is not true unless it is assumed that the many highly trained physicians who administer chelation therapy are not scientific. He engages in name-calling. Doctors who disagree with Saul Green are called unscientific. Various segments of the medical community join together in professional associations with the goal of protecting their turf and maintaining a monopoly in their field as much as possible. It is not justified for one such group to state that other medical scientists who disagree are "unscientific." This merely represents a disagreement between experts, between differing factions of the medical profession-a common occurrence in any profession. Emerging, complimentary and alternative therapies often confront that type of bias. Saul Green writes that at least fifteen different reports document that EDTA did not benefit patients. That is not true! For the most part, he cites letters to the editor, which report an occasional treatment failure. No therapy is 100% effective and treatment failures do occur with EDTA. However, more than 85% of patients have been helped. These anecdotal reports of treatment failures are used by critics, but anecdotal reports of treatment success are rejected by critics. This represents more evidence of the double standard. Saul Green also misrepresents the the unscientific studies previously mentioned as documenting that EDTA chelation does not work, Chelation Critics Deceive the Public. Arteriograms before and after treatment are demanded by critics to prove benefit from chelation therapy. It is not possible, however, to accurately measure decreases in atherosclerotic plaque unless the diameter of the artery is increased by approximately 25%. In the presence of turbulent blood flow past plaques, it requires only a 10% increase in arterial diameter to double the flow of blood (Poiseuille's Law of hemodynamics as can be found in any textbook of medical physiology or biophysics). As proven in studies, arteriograms and ultrasound are not sensitive enough to consistently measure changes of less than 25% in the diameter of a blood vessel. Increases much less than that can greatly relieve or totally eliminate symptoms, and are not detectable on arteriograms. Studies which measure heart and organ function and total blood flow consistently prove that EDTA chelation therapy is highly beneficial. If patients improve their physical endurance, if exercise tolerance increases and if symptoms improve, that provides good scientific evidence of benefit. If measurements of walking distance on a treadmill with an uphill incline consistently increase after treatment and with statistical significance, that is valid scientific proof of benefit. Angiograms are not sensitive enough to measure even a doubling in blood flow. Angiograms are marketing tools frequently used to justify bypass surgery and balloon angioplasty; however, angiograms cannot show increases in arterial diameter that can increase blood flow by 200% or more. They do, however, show the surgeons where to cut and are necessary to place a balloon or stent in angioplasty. And sometimes those procedures are necessary. Saul Green is in error when he states that the Curt Diehm study in Germany did not show benefit. The raw data from that study has been analyzed by medical school professors in the United States and found to be highly positive, as documented in detail on the following webpage: Critique of the Heidelberg Study. Patients who received EDTA increased their walking distance by an average of 400%, compared to 60% increase in the control group patients, who received an active drug, not a placebo. The manufacturer of the control drug funded the study and reserved the right to manipulate and report the data in their own way. Patients who responded best were eliminated from the final data. Final results were measured immediately, 3 months before full improvement from EDTA could be expected. Analysis of raw data from that study proves that EDTA chelation therapy was highly effective in treating arterial blockage in the legs. The adverse side effects described by Saul Green were reported many years ago when massive doses of EDTA were infused in a very short time. Any medicine given in overdose can cause harm. There are no documented reports of harm when EDTA has been administered using the currently approved protocol. In rare reports of adverse side-effects, the current protocol was not followed. Even when administered improperly, 10 deaths in a million patients indicates that chelation is infinitely safer than surgery or balloon angioplasty, which result in death from complications in approximately 3 out of every hundred patients treated. Fifty thousand people die in automobile accidents every year and another 200,000 are seriously injured. I tell my patients that the drive to the clinic in an automobile to get chelation therapy is statistically far more dangerous that the chelation they receive after they arrive. More than 8,000 deaths and 200,000 hospitalizations each year result from complications of ibuprofen, naproxen, aspirin and other widely accepted pain remedies, many of which are available without prescription. EDTA chelation therapy is infinitely safer than even those treatments. Critics of chelation therapy never put things in proper perspective. Saul Green goes on to speculate about a number of theoretical reasons why chelation therapy might possibly be dangerous. He completely ignores the amazing safety record of a million patients who have received the therapy. The dangers of surgery and angioplasty are well proven, not just theoretical?three percent death rate and twenty percent or more serious but non-fatal complications. It is not necessary to merely speculate why invasive procedures might possibly cause harm. Saul Green's statements about why chelation might be dangerous have not been supported by more than 40 years of experience. The Danish study mentioned by Saul Green was misrepresented and proved nothing. It was actually a positive study and showed benefit from chelation therapy. Saul Green states that the FDA once had EDTA chelation on their list of "Health Care Frauds." The FDA has long since removed chelation therapy from that list, and for good reason. Why did they do that? Jan, remember back in the years when you were a babysitter, and a particularly rude child that you were speaking to would put his fingers in his ears and yell, "LA, LA, LA, LA"? Snipping the comments of others and reposting 58Kb of crap is the internet equivalent of that behavior, and just reaffirms what an impolite fool you are. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ > Jan, remember back in the years when you were a babysitter, No, I was never a babysitter. and a particularly rude child that you were speaking to would put his fingers in > his ears and yell, "LA, LA, LA, LA"? Absolutely, not. The children in my daycare center did not act in such a manner. This kind of behavior was never allowed, you see this can be avoided with the proper teachering ability, which you most likely would not undetand if I were to explain it to you. <snip usual insults and hatred> > This kind of behavior was never allowed . . . Yet you do the same thing. Shame on you. Signature--Rich Recommended websites: http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles http://www.acahf.org.au http://www.quackwatch.org/ http://www.skeptic.com/ http://www.csicop.org/ >> This kind of behavior was never allowed . . . > > Yet you do the same thing. Shame on you. >>>>Seems it might not be the first time that Chelation caused a heart >>>>attack [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The *truth* is: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2002;(4):CD002785. Chelation therapy for atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Villarruz MV, Dans A, Tan F. 4050 - G Bigasan Street, Palanan 1235, Makati City, Philippines. essie@vasia.com BACKGROUND: Chelation therapy is being promoted and practiced all over the world as a form of alternative medicine in the treatment of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. It has been recommended as a safe, relatively inexpensive and non-surgical method of restoring blood flow in atherosclerotic vessels. At present the benefit of chelation therapy remains controversial at best. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review is to assess the effects of ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid (EDTA) chelation therapy on clinical outcomes among patients with atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. SEARCH STRATEGY: The reviewers searched the Cochrane Peripheral Vascular Diseases Group Trials Register, (last searched July 2002), the Cochrane Controlled Trials Register, (Cochrane Library Issue 2, 2002), MEDLINE and EMBASE for published articles and other relevant articles. Studies were also requested through correspondence with known Filipino practitioners of the procedure. SELECTION CRITERIA: Studies were included if they were randomized controlled trials of EDTA chelation therapy versus placebo or no treatment in patients with atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Main outcome measures considered included either total or cause-specific mortality, non-fatal cardiovascular events, direct or indirect measurement of disease severity, subjective measures of improvement or adverse events. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers (MVV, FT) extracted data and assessed trial quality independently. Unresolved issues were considered by a third reviewer (ALD). Discrepancies were discussed until a consensus was reached. Authors were contacted for additional information. MAIN RESULTS: A total of five studies was included in the review. Mortality, non-fatal events, and cerebrovascular events were not reported in any of the studies. Four of the studies, with a total recruitment rate of 250 participants, showed no significant difference in the following outcomes: direct or indirect measurement of disease severity and subjective measures of improvement. One of the studies, which included only 10 patients, was interrupted prematurely, because of an apparent treatment effect. However, relevant data were not available in the report and have been requested from the authors. REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: At present, there is insufficient evidence to decide on the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of chelation therapy in improving clinical outcomes of patients with atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. This decision must be preceded by conducting randomized controlled trials that would include endpoints that show the effects of chelation therapy on longevity and quality of life among patients with atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Publication Types: a.. Meta-Analysis b.. Review >>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > some chelation therapists submit fraudulent insurance reports claiming to > have treated lead poisoning or another alleged toxic state" I wonder what the pre-CHEATlation tests showed wrt blood chemistries? I wonder if they were even performed. However, note that the MD is a member of the AMA. Jan will claim that this death resulted from *organized medicine*. >>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Jan will claim that this death resulted from *organized medicine*. I hereby proclaim, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. An autopsy conducted today was inconclusive. Results on the cause and manner of death are pending additional testing that could take up to five months to complete, authorities said. He claims his son Jamison, now 3, has dramatically improved since undergoing chelation therapy to remove mercury, the metal most associated with autism because of its presence in some childhood vaccines. He and his wife launched their international group in May. He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say that she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at this point. "Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. >>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with >chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. 10,000!!! That's a lot of money going to the MURDERING quacks, isn't it? >Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say that >she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at this >point. > >"Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. > SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message <snip more LIES from the PROVEN LIAR> news:c2ntg15r9cu6u11pusc3jb2utfib19ie9v@4ax.com... >>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >>He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with >>chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. >>Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say that >>she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at this >>point. >> >>"Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. > "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>> >>>"Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. >>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I hereby proclaim, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. Let's see...according to al lthe news articles this boy was in good health prior to being subjected to this risky, unproven procedure. Now he is dead. If the treatment were NOT cheatlation, you would be yelling for the doctor's blood. No one in their right mind would doubt that. > An autopsy conducted today was inconclusive. Results on the cause and manner > of death are pending additional testing that could take up to five months to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with > chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. Scary that there are so many desperate parents being taken advantage of. > Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say that > she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at this > point. > > "Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. I wonder what Jan will say if there is a finding that CHEATlation caused this needless death. >>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Scary that there are so many desperate parents being taken advantage of. Scary that we have an epidemic of autism. These parents were taken advantage of when the government failed to add up the cumulative amounts of mercury that a child would receive in shots during one doctor visit, or over the course of the full vaccine schedule.. For TEN LONG YEARS mercury was being injected into children through vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the Environmental Protection Agency. >> Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say >> that she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I wonder what Jan will say if there is a finding that CHEATlation caused > this needless death. There is NO such thing as * CHEATlation* If the finding states it did indeed kill him, these things do happen. As with *any* procedure. >>>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Scary that we have an epidemic of autism. So it is claimed. However, this allegation has been called into question based on the methodology used by the researchers. > These parents were taken advantage of when the government failed to add up > the cumulative > amounts of mercury that a child would receive in shots during one > doctor visit, or over the course of the full vaccine schedule.. Adding it up is bullshit. You see, there is medical science, something that you do not understand, that shows that the ethyl mercury produced by an injection is cleared so rapidly that there is virtually nothing left by the time of the next injection, thus, THERE IS NO CUMMULATIVE EFFECT as claimed by the anti-vaccine liars such as yourself. > For TEN LONG YEARS mercury was being injected into children through > vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the Environmental > Protection Agency. Wrong. See above for reason, which is a fact. The claim that there is a cummulative effect is a MYTH perpetrated by anti-vaccines, child hating liars. >>>Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say >>>that she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > There is NO such thing as * CHEATlation* Tell that to the 5 year old boy who died...he was CHEATlated out of the rest of his life. > If the finding states it did indeed kill him, these things do happen. > > As with *any* procedure. Yes, like in several case that you routinely mention to Peter Moran and Peter Bowditch. Strange that here you see to be taking it with such a degree of minimization. Being selective again, eh? BTW. Just to let you know, I am reposting this message, as above, as part of a new thread with the same subject line. >> Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. > > A diagnoses of "lead poisoning" has been found convenient in other > cases.... > > http://wwwQUACK > http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p182.htm#quack > [quoted text clipped - 466 lines] > EDTA > normalizes the distribution of most metallic elements in the body. >>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >> >>A diagnoses of "lead poisoning" has been found convenient in other >>cases.... >> >>http://wwwQUACK Jan snips what she cannot handle. The fact is that the doctor is claiming that the treatment is for lead poisoning, as that is the only way that the insurance company will pay for this unproven treatment. >>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that the treatment is for lead poisoning, as that is the only way that the > insurance company will pay for this unproven treatment. So is she saying it is not ok if doctors take gifts from drug companies, but it is ok if they lie to insurance companies? I my opinion, docs shouldn't be taking gifts from drug companies or lying to anyone, including insurance companies. Jeff >>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > taking gifts from drug companies or lying to anyone, including insurance > companies. Now, Jeff...Doctors lying to insurance companies is good...as that makes more business for me. Yes, their crimes do pay. >>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Jeff The LIES keep mounting! I said NO SUCH THING! >>>>>>Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I said NO SUCH THING! You showed no outrage when it was correctly pointed out to all that CHEATlators, i.e., doctors that are providing CHEATlation in situations which are not medically approved, are filing false insurance claims to collect their money. While you may not have *said it*, your actions sure do suggest that you condone it. Just like you condone the death of theat 5 year old. Shocking is too mild a word. > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05236/559444.stm > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lead poisoning causes autism? Sounds like spinning to cover the butt. Actually, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. What was said: He claims his son Jamison, now 3, has dramatically improved since undergoing chelation therapy to remove mercury, the metal most associated with autism because of its presence in some childhood vaccines. He and his wife launched their international group in May. He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. Marwa Nadama said yesterday she did not want to comment except to say that she is not blaming chelation for her son's death, at least not at this point. "Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. (...) > Actually, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with autism because of its presence in some childhood vaccines. He and his > wife launched their international group in May. He would be getting better anyway. It is not the chelation thearpy. > He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated with > chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "Let's wait until we have the results of the autopsy," she said. Well, unfortunately, there will be more autopsies off autistic kids. Jeff > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > He would be getting better anyway. It is not the chelation thearpy. How pathetic. >> He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated >> with chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jeff Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. Unfortunely,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, During the late 1980s and 1990s, while approving new vaccines and >>>> adding them to the childhood immunization schedule, the government >>>> agencies responsible for drug safety, failed to add up the cumulative >>>> amounts of mercury that a child would receive in shots during one >>>> doctor visit, or over the course of the full vaccine schedule. >>>> In 1999, while conducting a review of all mercury containing products, >>>> the regulatory agencies finally got around to looking at vaccines and >>>> discovered that the mercury being injected into children through >>>> vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the Environmental >>>> Protection Agency. (...) > Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. > > Unfortunely,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Yet, vaccines have nothing to do with autism. Jeff >(...) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Jeff Cue Jan to call you a liar or member of evil organized medicine. Apologies for belaboring the obvious. Btw Jeff, I assume you realize that Jan Drew aka Lady Lollipop is either a psychopathic liar or mentally deranged if not both. While it is completely pointless to attempt to discuss anything with her, it is important to expose her lies, especially about vaccinations and her bullshit claim of mercury poisoning. Aloha, Rich PS: If you respond to my post Jeff, Jan Drew is sure to make a personal attack against me and prove that she is a stalker. ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Best defense to logic is ignorance >> Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jeff This LIE keeps getting repeated. Now for what Jeff snipped. Actually, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. >> What was said: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > He would be getting better anyway. It is not the chelation thearpy. How pathetic. >> He said that, in 2000, perhaps a dozen autistic children were treated >> with chelation therapy. This year, it's more than 10,000. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jeff Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. Unfortunely,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, During the late 1980s and 1990s, while approving new vaccines and >>>> adding them to the childhood immunization schedule, the government >>>> agencies responsible for drug safety, failed to add up the cumulative >>>> amounts of mercury that a child would receive in shots during one >>>> doctor visit, or over the course of the full vaccine schedule. >>>> In 1999, while conducting a review of all mercury containing products, >>>> the regulatory agencies finally got around to looking at vaccines and >>>> discovered that the mercury being injected into children through >>>> vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the Environmental >>>> Protection Agency. >>> Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Actually, YOU are the lowest of low with this title. Chelation, which is useless for treating autism, killed a kid. The subject is accurate. (I am guessing that is what you mean by "title," but you seem to be unable to define anything.) http://www.iom.edu/report.asp?id=20155 Have a great day! Jeff >>> What was said: >>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>>>> vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the Environmental >>>>> Protection Agency. >>>> Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Chelation, which is useless for treating autism, killed a kid. YOU don't know that! The subject is accurate.(I am guessing that is what you mean by "title," NO, you are NOT guessing, you in FACT are LYING!!!! but you seem > to be unable to define anything.) I can certainly tell a LYING title. I can certainly see Mark LIED. I can certainly see YOU are LYING. It is VERY VERY VERY clear. ><snip *organized medicne* website > > Have a great day! > > Jeff I did. It helps when one is truthful. You should try it some time soon! >>>> What was said: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>>>>> through vaccines vastly exceeded the guidelines set by the >>>>>> Environmental Protection Agency. >>>>> Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > It is VERY VERY VERY clear. (...) Thanks. You and your ranting have done more to discredit yourself than I have. When you are able to write coherently and carry on a civil conversation, I will respond to you in this thread. Until then, bye. Jeff >>>>>Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > NO, you are NOT guessing, you in FACT are LYING!!!! Obviously, Jan missed Jeff's point. > but you seem > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It is VERY VERY VERY clear. Stupid, listen.....the *SUBJECT* is my OPINION of the events. Here we have a healthy kid who dies while getting this treatment. My inferfence is that the treatment killed him. I do death reviews for clients every day. I look for the obvious, and the not so obvious. Here, unless it can be shown that there is another cause, and the parents have made no such claim, then it is the CHEATlation that killed him. He was CHEATed out of a life. I have read every article Google News can find. When the autopsy proves me correct, what part of my anatomy do you think I want you to kiss? >>>>>>Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > When the autopsy proves me correct, what part of my anatomy do you think I > want you to kiss? Personally, I would rather not have any part of my anatomy kissed by Jan. > >>>>>>Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. > >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Personally, I would rather not have any part of my anatomy kissed by Jan. Thanks for a lovely picture in my head as I go to bed:( Cathy:) >>>>>>>Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Personally, I would rather not have any part of my anatomy kissed by Jan. I must agree. I was evil for thinking that. Satan made me do it. (Cue Jan to snip everything except the last sentence.) I suggest you print this out and take it to your Rabbi, this week. along with the post where you said this: Mark Probert Aug 22, 9:14 am *I read Torah every day* >>>>>>>>Unfotunately we have an epidemic of autism. >>>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > (Cue Jan to snip everything except the last sentence.) > I suggest you print this out and take it to your Rabbi, this week. along > with the post where you said this: Only if you print out a few hundred of your posts and give them to your clergyperson. > Mark Probert Aug 22, 9:14 am > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >> >>(Cue Jan to snip everything except the last sentence.) >> I suggest you print this out and take it to your Rabbi, this week. along >> with the post where you said this: > > Only if you Poor Mark!!!!! LOOK AT YOURSELF, NOT ME!!!!!!!!! >> Mark Probert Aug 22, 9:14 am >> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>> >>>(Cue Jan to snip everything except the last sentence.) >>>I suggest you print this out and take it to your Rabbi, this week. along >>>with the post where you said this: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > LOOK AT YOURSELF, NOT ME!!!!!!!!! Dear PreacherPerson: Only if you print out a few hundred of your posts and give them to your clergyperson. >>> Mark Probert Aug 22, 9:14 am >>> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>>> >>>>(Cue Jan to snip everything except the last sentence.) I suggest you print this and take it as well. >>>>I suggest you print th |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message