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Medical Forum / General / Alternative / August 2005Question for Clinton Z.
Have you had a mercury patch test, to check for an allergy to mercury? > Have you had a mercury patch test, > to check for an allergy to mercury? No. I have tried to stay away from allergy testing. I think that it may give false positives or negatives, plus someone who is hg toxic could also later develop an allergy. In fact even dentists have claimed to develop allergy to hg vapor after suffering toxicity. Actually at the time right before amalgam removal I had high copper blood serum so I am sure that it was coming off the amalgam. I do know that some amalgam patients have used the Melisa antibody test. I think Jeff Clark even discusses his results on his website, but this test appears to give a lot of positives even in many clinically unaffected patients so I haven't tried it either. > > Have you had a mercury patch test, > > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > also later develop an allergy. In fact even dentists > have claimed to develop allergy to hg vapor after suffering toxicity. The reason I asked is that mercury allergy is a recognized condition for which a reliable test (the patch test) exists. You have developed complex theories about your own condition, which are not necessary nor likely if a simpler explanation is available. It's like if I see moving lights in the sky -- "airplane" is a much better and more likely explanation than "visitors from another planet". If you have a positive mercury patch test, the whole question is answered immediately. You have mercury allergy and never should have had mercury amalgam dental fillings in the first place. If you resist being tested, that raises the question of whether you are avoiding getting a clear-cut diagnosis. > Actually at the time right before amalgam removal > I had high copper blood serum so I am sure that it > was coming off the amalgam. Was the high copper determined using a conventional assay? Was it confirmed using another method? How did you rule out other sources of copper? I'm wondering how you can be "sure". > I do know that some amalgam patients have used the Melisa > antibody test. I think Jeff Clark even discusses his results on > his website, but this test appears to give a lot of positives > even in many clinically unaffected patients so I haven't > tried it either. As I posted a few minutes ago, the MELISA test does not seem to be useful. It's odd that the melisa.org bibliographic pages include earlier studies from the same authors I quoted, but not the later studies from the same authors reversing their position on MELISA. >> > Have you had a mercury patch test, >> > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > As I posted a few minutes ago, the MELISA test does > not seem to be useful. As you posted, your usual garbage. > >> > Have you had a mercury patch test, > >> > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > As you posted, your usual garbage. Interesting that this time you quoted my entire posting, EXCEPT this part: > > It's odd that the melisa.org > > bibliographic pages include earlier studies from the > > same authors I quoted, but not the later studies from > > the same authors reversing their position on MELISA. That's absolutely true -- they cite the earlier 1994 study but not the 1997 or 1999 studies from the same authors. That's hard for you to accept -- these people embrace the earlier work which lent some support to their new technique, but ignore the later work which found their technique has no value. So how do you respond? You just delete it. How dishonest of you. Here it is again: Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 1997 Mar;112(3):212-7. In vitro lymphocyte proliferation as compared to patch test using gold, palladium and nickel. Cederbrant K, Hultman P, Marcusson JA, Tibbling L. Department of Surgery, Linkoping University, Sweden. BACKGROUND: A conventional lymphocyte transformation test (LTT) was compared to the commercially available MELISA (memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay), a lymphoproliferative assay that has been suggested to be a valuable instrument for the diagnosis of metal allergy. Sensitivity and specificity of the two assays were calculated using a patch test as a reference method. METHODS: 34 patients were patch-tested for gold sodium thiosulfate, palladium chloride and nickel sulfate, and the lymphocyte proliferation to these metals was tested in vitro using mononuclear cells from peripheral blood. RESULTS: No significant differences regarding sensitivity and specificity were found between MELISA and conventional LTT. The sensitivity varied between 55 and 95% and the specificity between 17 and 79%. CONCLUSIONS: The low specificity of the two in vitro assays suggests that they are not useful for diagnosis of contact allergy to the metals gold, palladium and nickel, since a large number of false-positive results will be obtained. [That study did not include mercury. The following study looked specifically at mercury.] J Dent Res. 1999 Aug;78(8):1450-8. In vitro lymphoproliferative assays with HgCl2 cannot identify patients with systemic symptoms attributed to dental amalgam. Cederbrant K, Gunnarsson LG, Hultman P, Norda R, Tibbling-Grahn L. Department of Health and Environment, Linkoping University, Sweden. Dental amalgam is suspected, by some exposed individuals, to cause various systemic psychological, sensory, and neurological symptoms. Since not all amalgam-bearers experience such reactions, an individual characteristic--for example, a susceptible immune system--might explain these conditions. In vitro lymphocyte proliferation is a valuable tool in the diagnosis of allergy. With HgCl2 as the antigen, however, the test is hampered, because Hg2+ can cause unspecific lymphocyte proliferation, optimal at 1.4 to 9.5 micrograms HgCl2/mL. Recently, the use of suboptimal HgCl2 concentrations (< or = 0.5 microgram/mL) has been suggested to circumvent these problems. The main aim of this study was to investigate whether patients with systemic symptoms alleged to result from the presence of dental amalgam differ from healthy controls, with reference to in vitro lymphoproliferative responses to HgCl2 < or = 0.5 microgram/mL. Three different test protocols-- lymphocyte transformation test (LTT) in micro- and macro-cultures, and the memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay (MELISA)--were used. Other immune parameters--such as a standard patch test for dental materials, the number of T- and B-lymphocytes, monocytes, granulocytes, and NK cells in peripheral blood, allergic symptoms, and predisposition--were also investigated. Twenty-three amalgam patients, 30 healthy blood donors with amalgam, ten healthy subjects without amalgam, and nine patients with oral lichen planus (OLP) adjacent to dental amalgam and a positive patch test to Hg0 were tested. None of the investigated immune parameters revealed any significant differences between amalgam patients and controls. The sensitivity of in vitro lymphocyte proliferation ranged from 33 to 67%, with the OLP patients as a positive control group, and the specificity from 0 to 70% for healthy controls with a negative patch test to Hg0. Thus, despite the use of HgCl2 < or = 0.5 microgram/mL, a high frequency of positive results was obtained among healthy subjects with or without dental amalgam. Consequently, in vitro lymphocyte proliferation with HgCl2 cannot be used as an objective marker for mercury allergy in dental amalgam-bearers. Interesting Mark quotes a study from Sweden where amalgams are banned. Mark is a lackey for Barrett. Nuff said. >> >> > Have you had a mercury patch test, >> >> > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> As you posted, your usual garbage. <snip? >Interesting Mark quotes a study from Sweden where amalgams are banned. > >Mark is a lackey for Barrett. > >Nuff said. Stuff said indeed. Is this thread about Mark?? Notice that other than making a personal attack Jan Drew has absolutely nothing to offer. If she is not attacking Jews, atheists, homosexuals, Catholics, Buddhists, etc she is attacking someone named Mark or Rich. Sad that. Aloha, Rich ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Best defense to logic is ignorance > > > Have you had a mercury patch test, > > > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > condition, which are not necessary nor likely if a simpler > explanation is available. true Hg toxicity causes a lot of symptoms which cannot be explained by allergy. For example, my chess playing ability declined dramatically. there apparently is still some nervous system damage becaue its harder to do certain visulization tasks. It goes far beyond simple allergy. > It's like if I see moving lights in the sky -- "airplane" is > a much better and more likely explanation than "visitors [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > allergy and never should have had mercury amalgam > dental fillings in the first place. I'd have to determine that these tests are reliable, and as I said toxiciy could cause allergy anyway. > If you resist being tested, that raises the question of > whether you are avoiding getting a clear-cut diagnosis. There where a number of abnormal findings before amalgam removal such as high blood pressure changes in wbc, elevated creatine, elevated A/G ratio. Low thyroid, frequent urination. All which normalized after amalgam removal. Not to mention the jaw near the filling had become soft. I could also try challenge testing now that my amalgams are removed but that could be dangerous. > > Actually at the time right before amalgam removal > > I had high copper blood serum so I am sure that it > > was coming off the amalgam. > > Was the high copper determined using a conventional > assay? It was done by a conventional blood test ordered by a conventional MD. Was it confirmed using another method? They checked it twice according to the report. I don't know if they used another method or not. > How did you rule out other sources of copper? > I'm wondering how you can be "sure". Obviously you can never be sure, but let me also tell you that I had to press the (new) dentist to remove the filling because it seemed okay on x-ray. then what do you know a tremendous amount of decay underneath and apparently the filling was in bad shape. then after this I looked for my original records when i was back home and they were gone..an awful lot of coincedences. Also if you are being affected by Hg you know it. I wasn't concerned about proving what the problem was but more with concerned with trying to get better. I was really out of it when i had the amalgam removed and one big mistake I did make was not saving the filling. > As I posted a few minutes ago, the MELISA test does > not seem to be useful. It's odd that the melisa.org > bibliographic pages include earlier studies from the > same authors I quoted, but not the later studies from > the same authors reversing their position on MELISA. I haven't researched it at all so I can't say if it is accurate or not. Did you ever ask the dental office if it was possible for your records to be stored on film? Sometimes this is done for space and back up . Just a thought... UM MOM Susan >> > > Have you had a mercury patch test, >> > > to check for an allergy to mercury? [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > I haven't researched it at all so I can't say if it is > accurate or not. > Did you ever ask the dental office if it was possible for your records to be > stored on film? Sometimes this is done for space and back up . Just a > thought... UM MOM Susan What happened is my old dentist got into a fight with his associate over apparently if his patients were his or the practices'. My dentist somewhow tried to sell his part of the practice to another dentist after meeting him one time in a resturnt. after he left town then the associate who actually may have rightfully owned the entire practice somehow worked with the person the practice was sold to to completely transfer all patients records. Aparently more than one were missing and I was even told that my dentist had stored his records in his secretaries apartment and tried to break into the dental office at midnight maybe to get records, after being locked out. Or maybe he broke into the office and then stored copies or the original records in his secretaries apartment. Anyway, that new dentist then sold his practice to another dentist after a few years who now has all my old dentists records in storage. i checked with his office after having my amalgam removed and my moms and sisters were there but mine were missing. Meanwhile the associate had since retired and when i called him up he told me that he threw out all his copies of my old dentists records since the legal time limit had passed. > Have you had a mercury patch test, > to check for an allergy to mercury? I just copied this from JC's cfsn page MELISA stands for "Memory Lymphocyte Immunostimulation Assay", an "in vitro" test for metal allergy. What MELISA provides is a reliable, objective means for determining individual immune system sensitivity to specific metals, and metal compounds. Early work with MELISA indicates a subset of the general human population, at least 14%, form a memory lymphocyte mediated immune response specific to commonly used dental metals, at the concentrations they are leaching from dental restorations into the digestive system, tissues, and blood stream. This knowledge is a critical missing piece in understanding a likely pathology for "amalgam disease", CFIDS , and various autoimmune conditions. Visit our page Proposed Immune-Metal Pathology to read our understanding of how all this fits together for chronic illness. Below you will find two journal references regarding work done with the MELISA test. We have created graphs from the authors' published data to better visualize the study results. In the case of oral lichens, a causal relationship between dental mercury and precancerous cells was demonstrated. MELISA showed a positive result in 72% of the patients against inorganic mercury. After removal of the mercury fillings, the patients oral lichens went away. The second study demonstrates a direct correlation between brain lesions visible under MRI and a positive MELISA response to dental metal in the mouth of patients meeting the strictest definition of chronic fatigue syndrome. For contact information and other important information concerning MELISA® test for metal allergy, visit the web site: MELISA MEDICA FOUNDATION www.melisa.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title Mercury-specific lymphocytes: an indication of mercury allergy in man. Author Stejskal VD; Forsbeck M; Cederbrant KE; Asteman O Source Journal of Clinical Immunology, 16(1):31-40 1996 Jan Abstract In this study, 18 patients with oral lichen planus (OLP), adjacent to amalgam fillings, were tested in vitro with an optimized lymphocyte proliferation test, MELISA (memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay) and with a patch test. Twenty subjects with amalgam fillings but without oral discomfort and 12 amalgam-free subjects served as controls. The results show that patients with OLP have significantly higher lymphocyte reactivity to inorganic mercury, a corrosion product of amalgam, compared to control groups. Removal of amalgam fillings resulted in the disappearance of oral mucosal changes, thus indicating a causal relationship. Positive responses to phenylmercury (phenyl-Hg), a bactericidal agent in root fillings and in pharmaceutical preparations, were also noted in the oral lichen group but not in the control groups. Thus, low-grade chronic exposure to mercury may induce a state of systemic sensitization as verified by Hg-specific lymphocyte reactivity in vitro. Title Immunological and Brain MRI Changes in Patients with Suspected Metal Intoxication Author Tibbling L; Thuomas KA; Lenkei R; Stejskal VD; Source International Journal of Occupational Medicine and Toxicology, Vol. 4, No. 2, 1995 Abstract Thirty-four patients with central nervous system (CNS) and systemic symptoms suggestive of intoxication from dental amalgam were examined with magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the brain (n=32) and with a Memory Lymphocyte Immuno Stimulation Assay (MELISA) (n). Lymphocyte phenotype was analyzed with flow cytometry (FC) in 22 of the patients. One hundred twenty age-matched patients without CNS symptoms served as controls for the MRI study, seventy-seven healthy subjects with dental amalgam fillings served as controls for the MELISA test, and seventy-five clinically healthy subjects were controls for the lymphocyte phenotype determination. Pathological MRI findings were present in 81% of the patients, most of them with signs of degeneration in the basal ganglia, but none in the controls. The lymphocyte phenotype determination was pathological in 58%. The MELISA showed pathological findings in 88%, of which 60% showed an immune reaction to mercuric chloride, 62% of the patients had some kind of atopic disease, and 35% suffered from levothyroxine-treated hypothyreosis. A high rate of immunopathologies and objective signs of immunological reactions in the majority of the patients with MRI changes in the brain suggests that immunological mechanisms may play an important role in the development of the lesions. > MELISA stands for "Memory Lymphocyte Immunostimulation > Assay", an "in vitro" test for metal allergy. > > What MELISA provides is a reliable, objective means > for determining individual immune system sensitivity > to specific metals, and metal compounds. Only according to its promoters. Other studies show this test is not useful. Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 1997 Mar;112(3):212-7. In vitro lymphocyte proliferation as compared to patch test using gold, palladium and nickel. Cederbrant K, Hultman P, Marcusson JA, Tibbling L. Department of Surgery, Linkoping University, Sweden. BACKGROUND: A conventional lymphocyte transformation test (LTT) was compared to the commercially available MELISA (memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay), a lymphoproliferative assay that has been suggested to be a valuable instrument for the diagnosis of metal allergy. Sensitivity and specificity of the two assays were calculated using a patch test as a reference method. METHODS: 34 patients were patch-tested for gold sodium thiosulfate, palladium chloride and nickel sulfate, and the lymphocyte proliferation to these metals was tested in vitro using mononuclear cells from peripheral blood. RESULTS: No significant differences regarding sensitivity and specificity were found between MELISA and conventional LTT. The sensitivity varied between 55 and 95% and the specificity between 17 and 79%. CONCLUSIONS: The low specificity of the two in vitro assays suggests that they are not useful for diagnosis of contact allergy to the metals gold, palladium and nickel, since a large number of false-positive results will be obtained. [That study did not include mercury. The following study looked specifically at mercury.] J Dent Res. 1999 Aug;78(8):1450-8. In vitro lymphoproliferative assays with HgCl2 cannot identify patients with systemic symptoms attributed to dental amalgam. Cederbrant K, Gunnarsson LG, Hultman P, Norda R, Tibbling-Grahn L. Department of Health and Environment, Linkoping University, Sweden. Dental amalgam is suspected, by some exposed individuals, to cause various systemic psychological, sensory, and neurological symptoms. Since not all amalgam-bearers experience such reactions, an individual characteristic--for example, a susceptible immune system--might explain these conditions. In vitro lymphocyte proliferation is a valuable tool in the diagnosis of allergy. With HgCl2 as the antigen, however, the test is hampered, because Hg2+ can cause unspecific lymphocyte proliferation, optimal at 1.4 to 9.5 micrograms HgCl2/mL. Recently, the use of suboptimal HgCl2 concentrations (< or = 0.5 microgram/mL) has been suggested to circumvent these problems. The main aim of this study was to investigate whether patients with systemic symptoms alleged to result from the presence of dental amalgam differ from healthy controls, with reference to in vitro lymphoproliferative responses to HgCl2 < or = 0.5 microgram/mL. Three different test protocols-- lymphocyte transformation test (LTT) in micro- and macro-cultures, and the memory lymphocyte immunostimulation assay (MELISA)--were used. Other immune parameters--such as a standard patch test for dental materials, the number of T- and B-lymphocytes, monocytes, granulocytes, and NK cells in peripheral blood, allergic symptoms, and predisposition--were also investigated. Twenty-three amalgam patients, 30 healthy blood donors with amalgam, ten healthy subjects without amalgam, and nine patients with oral lichen planus (OLP) adjacent to dental amalgam and a positive patch test to Hg0 were tested. None of the investigated immune parameters revealed any significant differences between amalgam patients and controls. The sensitivity of in vitro lymphocyte proliferation ranged from 33 to 67%, with the OLP patients as a positive control group, and the specificity from 0 to 70% for healthy controls with a negative patch test to Hg0. Thus, despite the use of HgCl2 < or = 0.5 microgram/mL, a high frequency of positive results was obtained among healthy subjects with or without dental amalgam. Consequently, in vitro lymphocyte proliferation with HgCl2 cannot be used as an objective marker for mercury allergy in dental amalgam-bearers. Interesting that Mark posts studies from Sweden when amalgams are banned >> MELISA stands for "Memory Lymphocyte Immunostimulation >> Assay", an "in vitro" test for metal allergy. [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > used as an objective marker for mercury allergy > in dental amalgam-bearers. |
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