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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / April 2004

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Aids in Africa: True or False?

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abinkum@yahoo.com - 24 Apr 2004 04:57 GMT
It is now "conventional wisdom" that there is a catastrophic HIV/AIDS
problem in Africa. Tens of millions are said to be infected, millions
die every year and we are informed that the problem continues to
escalate. We receive this education from the mainstream mass media, in
the form of reports from major authorities like US government health
authorities, statistical studies from the World Health Organization
and reports on latest HIV research from retrovirologists. Although it
is never reported in the US mass media, a few of us have also heard
that there is controversy about these claims, and that many scientists
now claim that HIV is harmless or does not even exist. Yet this
appears incredible to most people since it would seem to involve an
impossible conspiracy of all these authorities. However the numbers
and credentials of AIDS "dissenters" suggest that their arguments
should at least be considered.
    In South Africa, a media debate has been raging in recent months
(uncovered in the USA corporate media) between Rian Malan, journalist
and famous South African novelist, and the Treatment Action Campaign
(TAC). The TAC is a heavily funded group which claims to be a grass
roots "AIDS activism" movement and heavily promotes the mass use of
antiretroviral drugs in Africa.
    Malan first smelt a rat when contracted in 1999 for an article to
discredit (then and current) South African president Thabo Mbeki, who
was resisting the use of antiretrovirals in his country. Everyone
thought Mbeki "had gone off his rocker" since the media proclaimed
250,000 dead that year in SA alone. Malan decided to report on the
coffin business in Johannesburg as a graphic way of illustrating the
emergency, but to his surprise found that coffin manufacturers
reported business was rather quiet. The TAC's response was that the
sample he used (the only two coffin makers in the Jo'burg phonebook)
was too small. If the TAC are impartial and concerned for the public
good, one wonders why they did not carry out a similar survey of
coffin makers themselves to investigate this claim.
    In his articles – such as "APOCALYPSE WHEN?" in Noseweek magazine –
Malan reports on various anomalies of the "official" AIDS story. One
concerns the media claim of 60% infection rates in the prison
population. HIV elisa tests have been carried out in the jail at
Grahamstown, SA in recent years giving HIV rates of 3%. In the last 7
years there have been only two deaths attributed to HIV/AIDS – about
one every 3 years. Even Malan seems to miss the incongruity here: a
rate of 3% of 550 inmates is about 20 people, so at the very least one
would expect 4 or 5 to have died last year. This does seem to support
the claims of AIDS "dissenters' that HIV tests are invalid.
    However in Africa it is not even necessary to be tested, for HIV to
be diagnosed. Typical symptoms of tuberculosis or malaria, the
traditionally biggest killers in Africa, satisfy the World Health
Organization's "Bangai definition" of AIDS in developing countries.
Malan's analysis of statistics showed that even the establishment
(Medical Research Council) statistics put AIDS prevalence at about the
same as TB, yet 90 times as much funding is available for AIDS.
African doctors will often diagnose AIDS in cases of TB, since so much
more funding is then available for their patients – further skewing
the statistics. In Botswana the media and the TAC proclaimed in 2003
an unprecedented catastrophe with the population being decimated by
AIDS, based on their usual computer-modeled statistical estimates from
limited data. Unfortunately for them, an actual census report was
released a few months later which showed healthy population growth
rates. This dramatic contradiction was not covered by the corporate
media.
    Of the huge amount of evidence now available challenging the HIV
paradigm, a dramatic example is the "Partage Tanzania" project started
in 1989 by Philippe Krynen and his wife to help "AIDS orphans" (for
example see "Aids in Africa – a field experience" – by Dr Marc Deru).
Over the first couple of years of the project, Krynen – at first a
media spokesman warning of the catastrophe - gradually changed his
opinion of the AIDS crisis. Testing extensively, he noticed that HIV+
children had exactly the same chances of recovery as HIV-, and that
children testing positive after a bout of malaria could be HIV
negative 6 months later. This correlates with other studies showing
that Malaria, TB, pregnancy and dozens of other conditions can give a
false HIV+ reading. In this supposed epicenter of AIDS, Tanzania's
population grew by 49% between 1988 and 2002, yet Krynen records that
no antiretrovirals and until 2000 no condoms were introduced. His
ongoing project demonstrates that the best treatment for Africans with
impaired immune function is good nutrition and clean water. Even Luc
Montagnier, the co-discoverer of the alleged HIV virus, has publicly
stated he is unable to show how HIV can cause AIDS.
The following are a few of the best of hundreds of AIDS dissenting
websites for those interested in this issue: (virusmyth.org;
theperthgroup.com; altheal.org; aliveandwell.org and healtoronto.com),
and for public discussion: AIDSmythexposed.com. Rian Malan's articles
on the issue can be easily found by internet search, and the TAC
responses to Malan can be found on their website.
PaulKing - 24 Apr 2004 09:04 GMT
Great post!!!!!!!

An article in last year's Journal of STDs and AIDS notes inexplicable
appearances of so-called HIV infection among no-risk populations in
Sub-Saharan Africa.

According to the authors, 'an expanding body of evidence challenges the
conventional hypothesis that sexual transmission is responsible for more
than 90% of adult HIV infections in Africa'.

Although perceptive enough to notice that differences in HIV rates among
African countries are not explained by differences in sexual behavior, the

researchers fail to note that HIV tests cannot diagnose actual infection
with HIV. They also don1t seem to know that positive results can be
triggered by antibodies created in response to pregnancy and numerous
endemic conditions.

These simple facts would unravel the mystery of 'unexplained high rates of

HIV incidence' in African women during antenatal and postpartum periods
and
how African adults with no sexual exposure to HIV and in children with
HIV-negative mothers2 manage to come up positive.

Maybe someday AIDS experts will be as well informed as they are well
funded
abinkum@yahoo.com - 24 Apr 2004 20:13 GMT
CAn you perhaps find the reference to that article? issue number/date
or whatever. Sounds like a valuable addition to the collection of
evidence questioning HIV=Aids - of course there is already a mountain,
for example about how non-specific the tests are.

> Great post!!!!!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Maybe someday AIDS experts will be as well informed as they are well
> funded
Baby Peanut - 24 Apr 2004 14:18 GMT
> It is now "conventional wisdom" that there is a catastrophic HIV/AIDS
> problem in Africa. Tens of millions are said to be infected, millions
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> good, one wonders why they did not carry out a similar survey of
> coffin makers themselves to investigate this claim.

Oh that can be disproved so easily.  There are web sites listing many
more than two coffin makers.

http://www.frain.org.za/advisors/advisorsgautjobrg.html

[...snip rest of schlock...]
abinkum@yahoo.com - 24 Apr 2004 20:08 GMT
> >     Malan first smelt a rat when contracted in 1999 for an article to
> > discredit (then and current) South African president Thabo Mbeki, who
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://www.frain.org.za/advisors/advisorsgautjobrg.html

Please provide a list of "many" coffin makers in Jo'burg. I checked
the yellow pages 3 weeks ago and there were 2. It's interesting you
say that "can be disproved so easily" assuming you are right before
you even try. Go ahead, ring coffin makes – "many" if you can find
more than 2 or 3 – see what they say and report back, including their
names and numbers of course so your claims can be verified – of course
it won't be believable otherwise.
PaulKing - 25 Apr 2004 23:50 GMT
Funny! Not a word from our great expert 'BabyPeanut'.

I thought she said it 'was so easy to disprove'?
Moira de Swardt - 28 Apr 2004 14:43 GMT
<abinkum@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> Please provide a list of "many" coffin makers in Jo'burg. I checked
> the yellow pages 3 weeks ago and there were 2. It's interesting you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> names and numbers of course so your claims can be verified - of course
> it won't be believable otherwise.

This is a ridiculous test.  Why would coffins need to be made in
Johannesburg where the rents are expensive?  Most coffins are made in small
outlying areas where rentals are cheap.  Cardboard coffins are available,
although I am told not very popular yet.  Why not check out the burgeoning
number of funeral parlours and ask your questions of them?  This includes
the little ones in the townships where their advertising is localised.
Remember, in Africa not every business has a telephone or even a business
premises.  Much of our "employment" is of the informal variety, particularly
things like coffin making.

The South African Yellow Pages is online, and Johannesburg must include the
West Rand and East Rand for statistical accuracy although they are
technically different directories they are the same dialling code.

Moira, the Faerie Godmother
abinkum@yahoo.com - 29 Apr 2004 02:16 GMT
> <abinkum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Moira, the Faerie Godmother

1. So you think that in 99 when there was reportedly a death toll of
250,000 from aids in South AFrica, with Sowetto one of the supposed
epicenters, that it is remotely feasible that business at *any* J'burg
coffinmaker would have been *quiet*? Despite this "classless" sexually
transmitted disease.

2. I assume you claim to be impartial and concerned about the supposed
Aids crisis. YOu would no doubt be overjoyed to find that the crisis
is (at the very least) grossly exaggerated. Why then are you
arrogantly dismissive of people like Malan without even bothering to
check. The answer seems obvious to me. You have Aids Inc
death-coloured glasses on and are not impartial in the slightest.
Prove me wrong - make a few calls and visits to your cofin makers; try
to find out why there is mysteriously no demand for your cardboard
coffins, and report back to us - with evidence of course, not just
your word.

Incidentally you should read the Milan articles and the TAC replies,
to find out how meaningless the 250,000 figure really was (now quietly
reduced to about 90,000 from memory).
Moira de Swardt - 29 Apr 2004 13:18 GMT
<abinkum@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> 1. So you think that in 99 when there was reportedly a death toll of
> 250,000 from aids in South AFrica, with Sowetto one of the supposed
> epicenters, that it is remotely feasible that business at *any* J'burg
> coffinmaker would have been *quiet*? Despite this "classless" sexually
> transmitted disease.

I don't see any reason to speculate about this.  It is actually irrelevant.

> 2. I assume you claim to be impartial and concerned about the supposed
> Aids crisis. YOu would no doubt be overjoyed to find that the crisis
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> coffins, and report back to us - with evidence of course, not just
> your word.

I don't claim to be impartial at all.  I am most concerned and, indeed
intimately involved, in the AIDS crisis, nothing supposed.

I would, of course, be delighted to find the crisis exaggerated or
non-existent.  But it is not.

There is no desire to wear "death-coloured glasses".  The truth is that HIV
is technically a manageable disease.  People should not be acquiring HIV,
those with it should be managing it and then the prognosis will be rosy.  So
you could say I'm working for a rosy future.

The reason there is a low demand for cardboard coffins is that they are not
regarded as being "good enough" for the dead person.  People want to be seen
to be generous towards the dear departed loved one and there are people out
there who are in the money making business.

> Incidentally you should read the Milan articles and the TAC replies,
> to find out how meaningless the 250,000 figure really was (now quietly
> reduced to about 90,000 from memory).

Whose memory?

Moira, the Faerie Godmother
Jordan - 29 Apr 2004 03:49 GMT
>>It is now "conventional wisdom" that there is a catastrophic HIV/AIDS
>>problem in Africa. Tens of millions are said to be infected, millions
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> [...snip rest of schlock...]

Why rise to the bait?

Malan's personal position isas follows:

To reiterate my basic position: Aids is a serious problem in Africa, but
the extent of infections has been overestimated. - Rian Malan

Overestimating something does not mean it does not exist. But then the
denialists are clutching at straws.
abinkum@yahoo.com - 29 Apr 2004 14:20 GMT
I think you missed something from my article...how convenient for you:

Of the huge amount of evidence now available challenging the HIV
paradigm, a dramatic example is the "Partage Tanzania" project started
in 1989 by Philippe Krynen and his wife to help "AIDS orphans" (for
example see "Aids in Africa – a field experience" – by Dr Marc Deru).
Over the first couple of years of the project, Krynen – at first a
media spokesman warning of the catastrophe - gradually changed his
opinion of the AIDS crisis. Testing extensively, he noticed that HIV+
children had exactly the same chances of recovery as HIV-, and that
children testing positive after a bout of malaria could be HIV
negative 6 months later. This correlates with other studies showing
that Malaria, TB, pregnancy and dozens of other conditions can give a
false HIV+ reading. In this supposed epicenter of AIDS, Tanzania's
population grew by 49% between 1988 and 2002, yet Krynen records that
no antiretrovirals and until 2000 no condoms were introduced. His
ongoing project demonstrates that the best treatment for Africans with
impaired immune function is good nutrition and clean water. Even Luc
Montagnier, the co-discoverer of the alleged HIV virus, has publicly
stated he is unable to show how HIV can cause AIDS.
The following are a few of the best of hundreds of AIDS dissenting
websites for those interested in this issue: (virusmyth.org;
theperthgroup.com; altheal.org; aliveandwell.org and healtoronto.com),
and for public discussion: AIDSmythexposed.com. Rian Malan's articles
on the issue can be easily found by internet search, and the TAC
responses to Malan can be found on their website.

> Why rise to the bait?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Overestimating something does not mean it does not exist. But then the
> denialists are clutching at straws.
Jordan - 29 Apr 2004 17:34 GMT
> I think you missed something from my article...how convenient for you:

Let me try it again for your benefit then. This is what Malan has to say
about the situation.

"To reiterate my basic position: Aids is a serious problem in Africa,
but the extent of infections has been overestimated." - Rian Malan

>  Of the huge amount of evidence now available challenging the HIV
> paradigm, a dramatic example is the "Partage Tanzania" project started
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>Overestimating something does not mean it does not exist. But then the
>>denialists are clutching at straws.
abinkum@yahoo.com - 30 Apr 2004 22:28 GMT
> > I think you missed something from my article...how convenient for you:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> "To reiterate my basic position: Aids is a serious problem in Africa,
> but the extent of infections has been overestimated." - Rian Malan

I know exactly what Malan's current position is on HIV, are you being
deliberately deceptive?
Obviously I alluded to it in my article, as to why he could not see
the problem with the HIV tests in the prison data.
His is an "entry level" of HIV/AIds rethinking. Most rethinkers have
gone way beyond that, in fact probably most, including myself, now do
not think HIV even exists.
Personally, my entry level was in finding out that it was not a
heterosexual disease and was (and still is) being deliberately and
massively misrepresented as such.
 
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