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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / October 2007

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immoral choice or birth defect

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Death - 16 Oct 2007 14:22 GMT
October 15, 2007
Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
By LINDSEY TANNER
AP Medical Writer

CHICAGO (AP) -

Julio and Mauricio Cabrera are gay brothers who are convinced their sexual
orientation is as deeply rooted as their Mexican ancestry. They are among
1,000 pairs of gay brothers taking part in the largest study to date
seeking genes that may influence whether people are gay.

The Cabreras hope the findings will help silence critics who say
homosexuality is an immoral choice.

If fresh evidence is found suggesting genes are involved, perhaps
homosexuality will be viewed as no different than other genetic traits like
height and hair color, said Julio, a student at DePaul University in
Chicago.

Adds his brother, "I think it would help a lot of folks understand us
better."

The federally funded study, led by Chicago-area researchers, will rely on
blood or saliva samples to help scientists search for genetic clues to the
origins of homosexuality. Parents and straight brothers also are being
recruited.

While initial results aren't expected until next year - and won't provide a
final answer - skeptics are already attacking the methods and disputing the
presumed results.

Previous studies have shown that sexual orientation tends to cluster in
families, though that doesn't prove genetics is involved. Extended families
may share similar child-rearing practices, religion and other beliefs that
could also influence sexual orientation.

Research involving identical twins, often used to study genetics since they
share the same DNA, has had mixed results.

One widely cited study in the 1990s found that if one member of a pair of
identical twins was gay, the other had a 52 percent chance of being gay. In
contrast, the result for pairs of non-twin brothers, was 9 percent. A 2000
study of Australian identical twins found a much lower chance.

Dr. Alan Sanders of Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute,
the lead researcher of the new study, said he suspects there isn't one
so-called "gay gene."

It is more likely there are several genes that interact with nongenetic
factors, including psychological and social influences, to determine sexual
orientation, said Sanders, a psychiatrist.

Still, he said, "If there's one gene that makes a sizable contribution, we
have a pretty good chance" of finding it.

Many gays fear that if gay genes are identified, it could result in
discrimination, prenatal testing and even abortions to eliminate
homosexuals, said Joel Ginsberg of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association.

However, he added, "If we confirm that sexual orientation is an immutable
characteristic, we are much more likely to get the courts to rule against
discrimination."

There is less research on lesbians, Sanders said, although some studies
suggest that male and female sexual orientation may have different genetic
influences.

His new research is an attempt to duplicate and expand on a study published
in 1993 involving 40 pairs of gay brothers. That hotly debated study,
wrongly touted as locating "the gay gene," found that gay brothers shared
genetic markers in a region on the X chromosome, which men inherit from
their mothers.

That implies that any genes influencing sexual orientation lie somewhere in
that region.

Previous attempts to duplicate those results failed. But Sanders said that
with so many participants, his study has a better chance of finding the
same markers and perhaps others on different chromosomes.

If these markers appear in gay brothers but not their straight brothers or
parents, that would suggest a link to sexual orientation. The study is
designed to find genetic markers, not to explain any genetic role in
behavior.

And Sanders said even if he finds no evidence, that won't mean genetics
play no role; it may simply mean that individual genes have a smaller
effect.

Skeptics include Stanton Jones, a psychology professor and provost at
Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. An evangelical Christian, Jones last month
announced results of a study he co-authored that says it's possible for
gays to "convert" - changing their sexual orientation without harm.

Jones said his results suggest biology plays only a minor role in sexual
orientation, and that researchers seeking genetic clues generally have a
pro-gay agenda that will produce biased results.

Sanders disputed that criticism.

"We do not have a predetermined point we are trying to prove," he said. "We
are trying to pry some of nature's secrets loose with respect to a
fundamental human trait."

Jones acknowledged that he's not a neutral observer. His study involved 98
gays "seeking help" from Exodus International, a Christian group that
believes homosexuals can become straight through prayer and counseling.
Exodus International funded Jones' study.

The group's president, Alan Chambers, said he is a former homosexual who
went straight and believes homosexuality is morally wrong.

Even if research ultimately shows that genetics play a bigger role, it
"will never be something that forces people to behave in a certain way,"
Chambers said. "We all have the freedom to choose."

The Cabrera brothers grew up in Mexico in a culture where "being gay was an
embarrassment," especially for their father, said Mauricio, 41, a car
dealership employee from Olathe, Kan.

They had cousins who were gay, but Mauricio said he still felt he had to
hide his sexual orientation and he struggled with his "double life." Julio
said having an older brother who was gay made it easier for him to accept
his sexuality.

Jim Larkin, 54, a gay journalist in Flint, Mich., said the genetics study
is a move in the right direction.

Given the difficulties of being gay in a predominantly straight society,
homosexuality "is not a choice someone would make in life," said Larkin,
who is not a study participant.

He had two brothers who were gay. One died from AIDS; the other committed
suicide. Larkin said he didn't come out until he was 26.

"I fought and I prayed and I went to Mass and I said the rosary," Larkin
said. "I moved away from everybody I knew ... thinking maybe this will
cause the feelings to subside. It doesn't."

Sanders' research: http://www.gaybros.com

Exodus International: http://www.exodus.to
Qazfez - 17 Oct 2007 08:56 GMT
> October 15, 2007
> Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> The Cabreras hope the findings will help silence critics who say
> homosexuality is an immoral choice.

But of course, gay propagandists have been arguing for years that science
has already shown beyond a doubt that homosexuality is not a choice, and
that it is biologically innate. If that were true, studies like this
wouldn't even need conducting.

[snip]

> Jim Larkin, 54, a gay journalist in Flint, Mich., said the genetics study
> is a move in the right direction.
>
> Given the difficulties of being gay in a predominantly straight society,
> homosexuality "is not a choice someone would make in life," said Larkin,
> who is not a study participant.

What naive reasoning. Of course, people would choose to be gay, if they feel
like doing something dangerous. People - especially men - do that all the
time.

[snip]
Death - 18 Oct 2007 06:51 GMT
> > October 15, 2007
> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> [snip]

Indeed, the hunt for an excuse to be a faggot continues.
It just couldn't be filthy behavior
RamRod Sword of Baal - 18 Oct 2007 08:49 GMT
>> > October 15, 2007
>> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Indeed, the hunt for an excuse to be a faggot continues.
> It just couldn't be filthy behavior

Oh you mean things like anal and oral sex, you know the stuff so may
heterosexuals do...........
Death - 18 Oct 2007 16:04 GMT
> >> > October 15, 2007
> >> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> Oh you mean things like anal and oral sex, you know the stuff so may
> heterosexuals do...........

So you wannabe a woman.........like I haven't asked you that a 100xs be4.
RamRod Sword of Baal - 18 Oct 2007 17:18 GMT
>> >> > October 15, 2007
>> >> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>
> So you wannabe a woman.........like I haven't asked you that a 100xs be4.

I see you dodged the question, and no I have no wish to be a woman, why do
you?
Death - 19 Oct 2007 21:07 GMT
> >> >> > October 15, 2007
> >> >> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> I see you dodged the question, and no I have no wish to be a woman, why do
> you?

You bring up what a man and woman do, as if two males
can do the same. I asked if you wanted to be the female
of the pair. .......................No, I have a female to be the female.
RamRod Sword of Baal - 19 Oct 2007 21:28 GMT
>> >> >> > October 15, 2007
>> >> >> > Study Seeks DNA Clues on Homosexuality
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> can do the same. I asked if you wanted to be the female
> of the pair. .......................No, I have a female to be the female.

Well I mean you make a statement about 'filthy behavior' (Your statement,
not mine), so what do you mean by that, I could only assume you meant anal
and oral sex, which is something many heterosexuals do, so if not that, what
are you referring to?
Death - 20 Oct 2007 00:10 GMT
"RamRod Sword of Baal" <RamRod@truth_only.com> wrote in message

"Death" wrote in message

> >> >> > Indeed, the hunt for an excuse to be a faggot continues.
> >> >> > It just couldn't be filthy behavior
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Well I mean you make a statement about 'filthy behavior' (Your statement,
> not mine),

" Death" <Death@yourdoor.net> wrote in message

> > > Indeed, the hunt for an excuse to be a faggot continues.
> > > It just couldn't be filthy behavior

>so what do you mean by that,

By faggots having filthy behavior?
Like one male f.cking another male in its a.s?
I didn't say ass-f.cking was filthy, but 2 perverted
males sh.t-pushing each-other.

>I could only assume you meant anal
> and oral sex, which is something many heterosexuals do, so if not that, what
> are you referring to?
ScottyFLL - 18 Oct 2007 11:43 GMT
> Re: immoral choice or birth defect

I would guess that you are both.
Dolf Boek - 18 Oct 2007 11:51 GMT
DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WTH PHENOMENAL SPAM AND HATE SPEECH?

Here is an example of a deliberative and systematic process of slander. The
dynamic in Barry OGrady's 'You lie as a serpent' discourse is phenomenal
{ie. the conceptual philosophical doctrine that phenomena only are objects
of knowledge, or that phenomena are only realities as cognition of an
appearance or immediate object of awareness in experience} --and does indeed
mimic nous conceptual zones as Categories of Understanding: Male Idea: #126.
Female Idea: #145 previously conveyed to or by the individual.

http://home.mysoul.com.au/grapple/Chronicles/freeEnergy.html#145

- dolf

On 18/10/07 8:43 PM, in article
1192704214.626847.124790@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com, "ScottyFLL"

>> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>
> I would guess that you are both.
Qazfez - 18 Oct 2007 22:31 GMT
>> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>
> I would guess that you are both.

The way that question was posed, your suggestion does not make sense.
ScottyFLL - 19 Oct 2007 03:50 GMT
> >> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>
> > I would guess that you are both.
>
> The way that question was posed, your suggestion does not make sense.

Sure it does.  Think about it.
Dolf Boek - 19 Oct 2007 04:09 GMT
Thank-you for your continuing concerns on Mad-cows disease!

The former Health Minister Mrs Marie Tehan at the time of the legislative
change as Section 19A (1-2) Crimes Act 1958 (Victoria, Australia) relating
to a mitigated risk of a very serious disease which carries a term of
imprisonment of 25 years maximum--Subsequently themselves died of sibling
associated Creutzfeldt - Jacobs Disease!

That's her excuse, what's yours Qazfez?

Signature

- dolf

For access to my latest work ... Where in the World is all the Free Energy?

Energy and force are entirely different concepts!

http://home.mysoul.com.au/grapple/Chronicles/freeEnergy.html

On 19/10/07 12:50 PM, in article
1192762235.988239.88480@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com, "ScottyFLL"


>>>> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sure it does.  Think about it.
ScottyFLL - 19 Oct 2007 04:50 GMT
> Thank-you for your continuing concerns on Mad-cows disease!

I HATE it when people piss off the cows.
Dolf Boek - 19 Oct 2007 05:01 GMT
Lack of gun control in America as the right to bear arms and defend oneself
is a good thing.

The guns laws are so--because when an American shoots their mouth off and
what they say lacks integrity as dichotomist values perspective to be
readily capable of putting a bullet to their own head--that's the only
integrity to State you have left!

Signature

- dolf

For access to my latest work ... Where in the World is all the Free Energy?

Energy and force are entirely different concepts!

http://home.mysoul.com.au/grapple/Chronicles/freeEnergy.html

On 19/10/07 1:50 PM, in article
1192765807.731687.31640@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "ScottyFLL"


>> Thank-you for your continuing concerns on Mad-cows disease!
>
> I HATE it when people piss off the cows.
dank - 19 Oct 2007 11:21 GMT
Dolf Boek wrote...
> Lack of gun control in America as the right to bear arms and defend oneself
> is a good thing.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> readily capable of putting a bullet to their own head--that's the only
> integrity to State you have left!

The disarmed people of the UK are sheeple, and their democratic law & order
society is described as Orwellian, the netative utopia created by their most
famous writer.  Spy satellites catch British motorists eating while driving,
while those who eat too much are confined to insane asylums and force-fed
government-approved human nutrition pellets to protect the NHS from obesity-
related health care expenditures.
Qazfez - 19 Oct 2007 22:36 GMT
>> >> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sure it does.  Think about it.

No it doesn't. You think about it.
Dolf Boek - 19 Oct 2007 22:41 GMT
Can't you do something other than languish in semantics, mode and form?

Signature

- dolf

For access to my latest work ... Where in the World is all the Free Energy?

Energy and force are entirely different concepts!

http://home.mysoul.com.au/grapple/Chronicles/freeEnergy.html

>>>>> Re: immoral choice or birth defect
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> No it doesn't. You think about it.
ScottyFLL - 20 Oct 2007 00:46 GMT
> >> "ScottyFLL" <Scotty...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> No it doesn't. You think about it.

I thought about it before I presented it.

You're the one not "getting" it.

Doesn't surprise me.
bobandcarole - 20 Oct 2007 13:34 GMT
> > "ScottyFLL" <Scotty...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

ScottyFLL or ShittyFLL as he is known in APH
is a proven liar and keep in mind that he will netKKKop
you if he/she can. Of course he can't netKKKop moi, because I am
anonymized to perfection.  My usenet longevity is proof positive of
that assertion.  But keep in mind that he strives to be a pussy
netKKKop coward. Why? Because ShittyFLL IS a coward.

My pet monkey lc, recently named "Little c.nt" {Also a netKKKop
wannabe} thinks I live in Vancouver. Impotent psycho stalker sniper
308 aka "cap-gun"  thinks I live in Virginia. Pathetic colon choker
jaye elke thinks I live in Indiana. Which one of the Three Spooges do
you think is right? Moe, Larry, Curley or none of the above?

We all remember when a foolishly confident ShittyFLL posted this
priceless gem:

"I think we'll be seeing less of bobandcarole around these here
parts...at least while I'm around"--faggot ScottyFLL

A tagline for the ages to be sure!

After I shoved his delusional rant down his throat,
he lied and said he didn't post it after it was
witnessed by everyone. ShittyFLL IS a liar!

We've seen less of faggot ShittyFLL but not me.
Just as I knew it would be, of course. He was doomed to
failure from day one. And I'll be here.."as long as scotty is
around" :-)  ShittyFLL IS delusional

His forgeries are well documented.
This is ShittyFLLs "screenshot"

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcfullpersonaladscreenslz4.jpg

This is the authentic version:

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2849/bcos5.jpg

~~ShittyFLL...usenets biggest sot~~

We can't help but mention the fact that ShittyFLL is a chronic
alcoholic as evidenced by his posts in alt.recovery.aa. He
has no discipline or self control and that fact is laughable to
say the least! . One has to wonder if his babbling tirades
regarding me are fueled by 100 proof. :-)

We've established, beyond a reasonable doubt, the fact that scotty
WILL lie...about what he posts and about his deviant habits and
lifestyle. And he/it will lie about other purveyors of truth like
myself. Also we've established the fact that he is a pisshead, which
could explain his incoherent babbling and his willingness to believe
posts with forged headers are authentic.

He's a proven liar, faggot, forger AND a pussy netKKKop. You can't
get
much lower than that.

Oh, did I mention he is a flaming homo that ingests sperm and
has many disgusting homo/freak fetishes?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.flame.faggots/msg/7a684d3c7919c791?

<Tosses ScottyFLL a five spot>

Have another drink Shitty, this one's on me....

>From the gloryhole that ShittyFLL mans regularly:

~~~"Squirt! Squirt!"~~~~   ROTF!!!!!!

zmsscorpio@yahoo.com
scotty33315@yahoo.com
ScottyFLL@gmail.com
1scott@lycos.com
ScottyFLL@mail2scott.com

"I think we'll be seeing less of bobandcarole around these here
parts...at least while I'm around"--faggot ScottyFLL

"I threatened suit, you changed your illegal
behavior because you're a scared little pussy,
and I let it go"--Documented liar ScottyFLL

http:://groups.google.com/group/alt.abortion/msg/c77847ce4ccc4e4e?
dmode=source&hl=en

BTW...when you give him several usenet cockslaps he threatens to
sue...ROTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dolf Boek - 20 Oct 2007 16:47 GMT
It is said that the Torah text [Exodus 23:20-22] specifically refers to the
Archangel Metatron: ³Behold, I send an angel of mercy before you to guard
you in the land {Heb. derek}, to bring you into the place which I have
prepared. Pay attention before him and listen to (his) voice, and do not
rebel against his words, for my holy name is invoked upon him, for he will
not forgive or pardon your sins, for my holy name is invoked upon him. But
if you listen to the voice of my Memra {ie. The Lord of Sabaoth as the Lord
of Hosts, Forces & Authority over Chaos, Memra, Word, Shekinah, Holy Spirit;
By Acts of Divine Providence} and do all that it says, I will hate whoever
hates you, and I will oppress whoever oppresses you.² [© 1994 The Order of
Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of Neofiti 1: Exodus 23:20-22]

Jesus of Nazareth, in speaking of John the Baptist's ministry, assigns to
him the role of this Angel as being the Divine Messenger, in fulfillment of
this Torah narrative: ³What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A
reed shaken by the wind? But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in
soft {ie. Gk. malakos} garments? Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled
and live in luxury are in the kings¹ courts. But what did you go out to see?
A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it
is written: ŒBehold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare
your way {Gk. hodos} before you.¹ [Exodus 23:20-22] For I say to you, among
those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist;
but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.² [Luke
7:24-28]

> My informal view is that perhaps discourse is phenomenal {ie. the conceptual
> philosophical doctrine that phenomena only are objects of knowledge, or that
> phenomena are only realities as cognition of an appearance or immediate
> object of awareness in experience} and that imbued within this narrative is
> a truth quotient or soul--a reflexive self preservation of equilibrium.

.JackNote: This #22774, Super: #40 - Reversal/ Avoiding Activity; I-Ching:
H36 - Sinking Light; Tetra: #68 - Dimming, Ego: #13 - Status/ Loathing
Shame; I-Ching: H5 - Delay; Tetra: #17 - Holding Back, Nuance: #14 -
Metaphysical Issues/ Praising the Mysterious; I-Ching: H19 - Approaching;
Tetra: #9 - Branching Out

.Understanding: Male Idea: #224 has 0 Categories.

---    knee.
---     to pierce, penetrate; impress, remember; a male; ram.
---    (704 w/f); to step, tread, walk; a going, way; manner; mode of life;
lot, destiny.
---     white linen, byssus clothes; white bread; pr.n. "Nobleman",
"Linen-weaver".
---     a wall; an enclosure; a castle; an encampment, pastoral village.
---    (784 w/f); pr.n. "People's Burning".
---     pr.n. "Moon".
---     pr.n. "Odoriferous" or "Balmy".
---     to bind.
---     a mustering, a census; a charge or mandate; an appointed place or
rendezvous; pr.n. "Place of Muster" --- of a gate of Jerusalem.

Female Idea: #176 has 0 Categories.

---    to spread out.
---    (736 w/f); pr.n. "Yah Sets Up".
---    (986 w/f); to set firmly; to resolve firmly; to advise; to admonish.
---    (986 w/f); pr.n. "Counselor".
---     a bed; bridal-bed; floor or story.
---    (826 w/f); mocking or derision.
---    (736 w/f); pr.n. "Barrier" or "Fort".
---    (736 w/f & 590); time of appointed season, settled or fixed time;
festival; festival offering.
---     sucklings or children.
---     to be close or tight, to be pressed.
---     their eyes.
---     Ammonite.
---     pr. n. "Burden-Bearer", Amos.
---     pr. n. "Voluntary People".
---    (826 w/f); to act covertly, to use magic, to conjure; magician,
enchanter.

On 20/10/07 11:56 PM, in article C340462B.6B67%dolfboek@hotmail.com, "Dolf
Boek" <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Diana
>
[quoted text clipped - 254 lines]
> ---    (816 w/f); pr. n. "Son of my Kin" (born of incest), Ammon --- a son
> of Lot by his younger daughter, also the descendants of Lot or Ammonites.

On 20/10/07 10:34 PM, in article
1192883674.327073.4440@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "bobandcarole"

>>> "ScottyFLL" <Scotty...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 111 lines]
> BTW...when you give him several usenet cockslaps he threatens to
> sue...ROTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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