Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / September 2007
Where have all the dissidents gone?
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sculdermully2001@yahoo.com - 20 Aug 2007 20:05 GMT Back in the mid to late 1990s there were just a few of really excellent sites to discuss alternative theories about AIDS. One was the virusmyth webboard and the other was the misc.health.aids newsgroup. But in the early 2000s, the virusmyth webboard closed up shop, and at first a few and now dozens of dissident blogs, newsgroups and web sites have come and gone. One example is the BarnesWorld blog which shut down in May this year. Another example, is that Andrew Maniotis had a nice video interview up on YouTube, for the Gary Null show, but he recently retracted it.
In my opinion, part of the problem is the "in-fighting" among/between the various dissident groups. Some who claim that it is the "gay lifestyle" that causes AIDS don't believe that HIV exists at all, while others believe it exists but is harmless. The same is true for those who believe that mental stress causes AIDS. We will never make any progress with this. Are the so-called "HIV tests" completely worthless, or are they an accurate measurement of oxidative stress?
Why have Duesberg, Maniotis, Mullis, Al Bayati, Bauer, Culshaw, and the other big names never stood up in court to defend any of the hundreds of people who now sit in USA jails for the crime of not telling their sex partners about their test results? Why did they not help defend the Bayer corporation when it was accused of infecting hemophiliacs? What do they do with the monies they have raised selling their books etc?
Currently, it seems that only the most extreme views are being represented at places such as Tara Smith's aetiology blog. Why is Maniotis the only one brave enough to post his name there? Why can't Duesberg, Culshaw, or others help out?
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Aug 2007 04:07 GMT Exactly why would anyone want to step forward, after what was done to one of the few people in the world (Duesberg) with the expertise to provide a reasonable interpretation of the evidence? I am disappointed that he thinks there is a "retrovirus" called "HIV" that is "infecting" people, just that it's not dangerous. In any case, in academia, you make your case and you move on - what else is there to do? People like Duesberg obviously do not have the power to make policy.
Most people don't even know there are "HIV dissidents," so much of what these people have done is probably only going to be know by future generations, if anyone.
On my site, I am regularly posting more information from studies (mostly molecular-level) that relate to "HIV" specifically, and other conditions, or how to maintain health. I do this because it is important to me personally, and to enlighten those with an open mind and some time to think for themselves. I don't care how I'm perceived and prefer to remain anonymous (again, after seeing what was done to Duesberg). Anyone can post on my site, but I don't permit obscenities, personal attacks, etc. It is for those who want to discuss the scientific evidence in an academic way. I have asked "HIV/ AIDS" apologists to participate in moderated debates that would strictly adhere to the evidence, and not one of them has accepted, even though they could always post somewhere else and air their complaints, if they had any. What else can one do under such circumstances?
I suppose I could do a hypothetical debate, somewhat like what Galileo did, but there's so little to the "HIV/AIDS" claim that I don't know how to present it.
Do they think that any amount of reverse transcriptase activity in "stimulated" cells in a dish is enough to justify saying that a "retrovirus" is present? Can they explain why proper controls were not used? How would they go about demonstrating that the proteins said to come from "HIV" are not endogenous? And why is so much dilution needed for the test? And on, and on... It's so flimsy that I won't even call it a house of cards, which is like solid granite compared to the nonsense they've put forth as "evidence" for their ever-shifting claim.
gmc - 22 Aug 2007 12:51 GMT > Exactly why would anyone want to step forward, after what was done to > one of the few people in the world (Duesberg) with the expertise to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > even though they could always post somewhere else and air their > complaints, if they had any. What was done to him? He still teaches (a pity that). Does research. Blats crap when it suits him.
Many other people listed as "dissidents" changed their view and recognize HIV exists and is the cause of AIDS. Other HIV+ denialists died of AIDS.
So it goes. George M. Carter
JOHN - 24 Aug 2007 09:25 GMT Where have to been? Burying the last lot of victims, and back for more?
gmc - 24 Aug 2007 10:47 GMT > Where have to been? Burying the last lot of victims, and back for more? Only the folks that follow you're brain dead brand of bullshit, dear.
So DID you stop beating your wife? And how much does pharma pay you to smear and defame complementary and alternative medicine by being a quack?
Death - 22 Aug 2007 13:33 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> ... > Do they think that any amount of reverse transcriptase activity in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > compared to the nonsense they've put forth as "evidence" for their > ever-shifting claim. Call it, SSB, Suicide by Sexual Behavior rather than HIV if you wish. Millions dead, millions infected, that is pretty impressive as evidence that something is amiss wouldn't you say?
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Aug 2007 23:44 GMT Mr. Carter:
Will you answer one simple, on-point question for once in your life?
Here it is:
If I find a volunteer who has a "high viral load," where is the "HIV" in this person, so that I can take a sample, look at it under an EM, and see an abundance of particles that meet the textbook description of "HIV?"
And if you are particularly courageous, you might want to then tackle the following:
Do you find it unreasonable that a person who has read as much "HIV science" that he could get his hands on, and was trained in evidence analysis for his Ph.D. from a major US university, would want to actually see the viremia in question a person said to be dying of a virus?
gmc - 23 Aug 2007 09:50 GMT > Mr. Carter: > > Will you answer one simple, on-point question for once in your life? No.
> Here it is: > > If I find a volunteer who has a "high viral load," where is the "HIV" > in this person, so that I can take a sample, look at it under an EM, > and see an abundance of particles that meet the textbook description > of "HIV?" LOL. That's not a simple question. It's a simple-minded load of sh.t.
Hey. Lots of ways to get infected. You'll find out what those mysterious T cells do in good time.
You have an EM? Gosh. George M. Carter
Rolf Martens - 12 Sep 2007 09:58 GMT >Mr. Carter: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >actually see the viremia in question a person said to be dying of a >virus? That Carter person clearly is a "pro" swindler. I've read him before. You'll get no sensible reply from him.
But check out my homepage, sections "Subjects" and "Links", and you'll see some real stuff by real "HIV"/"AIDS" exposers.
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
monty1945@lycos.com - 22 Aug 2007 23:51 GMT "Millions dead, millions infected..."
What does this refer to, exactly? Millions are "infected" with H. pylori but only a small percentage get ulcers. Even if "HIV" were like an actual and potentially dangerous virus, being "infected" would not necessarily mean anything of clinical significance. Anytime you want to "infect" me with "HIV," you just go ahead and find it, and then we can proceed. In the meantime, we can all get a good laugh now and then from people like Mr. Carter spinning his circular logic, while simultaneously refusing to answer basic scientific questions about the "HIV/AIDS" claim. His statement that there were no professional consequences to Duesberg's stand on "HIV/AIDS" shows just how deluded he has allowed himself to become in his blind support of a ludicrous dogma.
Death - 23 Aug 2007 14:35 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> "Millions dead, millions infected..." > > What does this refer to, exactly? <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
...
> a reasonable interpretation of the evidence? I am > disappointed that he thinks there is a "retrovirus" called "HIV" that > is "infecting" people, just that it's not dangerous. In any case, in > academia, you make your case and you move on - ... monty1945@lycos.com - 24 Aug 2007 03:49 GMT A dramatic breakthrough event has occurred ! Mr. Carter has finally responded to a direct scientific question. Unfortunately, as is often the case, he uses an obscenity (though only one this time), and is otherwise not coherent. Perhaps one day Mr. Carter will explain to us why he thinks it absurd that someone would want to verify that there are actual viral particles that meet the textbook description of "HIV" in people with "high viral loads" and not in people with "low" or no "viral load," or why it is such a complicated matter to take a sample and place it under an EM. I'll now go back to doing research - presumably, Mr. Carter has some rubber walls he now needs to bounce off for a while, until he calms down.
Chris Noble - 24 Aug 2007 06:30 GMT monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> A dramatic breakthrough event has occurred ! Mr. Carter has finally > responded to a direct scientific question. Unfortunately, as is often [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > presumably, Mr. Carter has some rubber walls he now needs to bounce > off for a while, until he calms down. George asked you a question.
Do you have an electron microscope?
Some more questions come to mind. Have you ever isolated a virus? Have you ever done any experimental science at all?
I find it absurd that somebody who hasn't seen the inside of a lab would pretend to be capable of doing the experiments that you are talking about.
Chris Noble
gmc - 24 Aug 2007 10:49 GMT > A dramatic breakthrough event has occurred ! Mr. Carter has finally > responded to a direct scientific question. Unfortunately, as is often [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > presumably, Mr. Carter has some rubber walls he now needs to bounce > off for a while, until he calms down. LOL... you're such a joke, Monty sweety. It's the old move the goal posts. In your case, somewhere out beyond the parking lot. You know nothing about viral isolation, of course.
And I rather suspect that there is little likelihood you will ever be exposed to HIV, eh?
Best of luck with that cognitivie dissonance, dear. George M. Carter
monty1945@lycos.com - 24 Aug 2007 22:34 GMT Einstein and many others talked in hypotheticals, but in this case, I have the money to finance such an endeavor, but I am only willing to pay if I am wrong. Thus, if you think I am wrong, you can go ahead and take me up on my offer. We will put our money in escrow, have our attorneys draw up an agreement, and let the scientific method decide who is correct.
This still does not answer the question about where the abundance of "HIV" particles are in those whom you claim have "high viral loads." You know you cannot "win" on this issue, which is obvious even to many non-scientists (who know about the actual evidence), and probably explains the nasty responses to a simple, on-point, and crucial scientific question about the "HIV/AIDS" claim (whatever it happens to be today). Everyone I talk to about this says things like, "no, that can't be - there must be a lot of 'HIV' in people with high viral loads." When I tell them that I'm willing to pay for the experiment if I am wrong, but that the apologists won't take me up on this offer, then most realize that something is very wrong. You can try to fight basic common sense, but it will win out in the long term.
As to "expertise," you attack those who have it, like Duesberg, so what would it matter what my credentials are? But for those who don't know that experts have pointed out such flaws long ago, we will turn to an expert on EM:
"...It became acceptable to postulate that when viruses cannot be seen by EM in cancer cells, biochemical or immunological methods supposedly identifying viral "markers" were enough to demonstrate viral infection of the cells under scrutiny. Such markers can be an enzyme (RT), an antigen, various proteins, or some RNA sequences. Never seeing the viral particles was conveniently explained by the integration of the viral genome into the chromosomes of the alleged infected cells. To accommodate such interpretations implied complete oblivion of all we knew from previous research on cancer of experimental animals. Admittedly, in these models EM was only showing terminal steps of viral reduplication, initial phases being a series of molecular events which escape ultrastructural recognition. Still, in all the classical models such as murine and avian leukoses, visible terminal steps of viral replication (i.e. "budding") were always observed and regarded as essential for the spreading of infection from cell to cell.
Another shortcut with disastrous consequences has been the naive notion that any material banding at 1.16gm/ml represented retroviruses! Sure enough, true retroviruses band around that density. But this does not mean that whatever material bands at 1.16gm/ml is retroviral in nature! In the 1960s I was frequently asked to look at such 1.16gm/ml bands by biochemists: "Look at this, it forms a sharp band, it should be pure viruses!" Ultracentrifugation pellets obtained from such "sharp bands" showed, in thin sections for EM, an extreme variety of microvesicles and proteinaceous debris, but no retroviruses! Still, this approach has been (and still is!) used to identify virus "markers!" How sad it is to think that a simple EM control of such "bands" (which takes about two days, and costs a few hundred dollars, but has never been done before 1997) could have prevented these highly misleading interpretations of "markers" on which large budgets have been simply wasted..
Collecting viruses from the supernatant of cultures of virus infected cells raises other questions. We all remember the discovery, by Epstein (15) in 1964 of the EB virus in cultures derived from African Burkitt's lymphomas. This was an EM finding and the virus was immediately and properly classified as a member of the herpes group. To identify this DNA virus in cultured cells it was necessary to look into partially degenerating cells because, most obviously, the virus had a marked cytolytic effect. By complete contrast, retrovirus- carrying cells maintain excellent viability and released viruses can be easily recovered in the culture supernatant without the need to apply any lymphokine or growth factors stimulation to the cultures..."
By Etienne de Harven, an Emeritus Professor of Pathology and electron microscopist.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/edhrecol.htm
The only question that is of major interest to me on this thread now is the motivation of people like Noble and Carter. Are they deluded, are they industry shills, or are they posting such indefensible nonsense for some other reason?
gmc - 26 Aug 2007 11:42 GMT snipped age old horseshit
> By Etienne de Harven, an Emeritus Professor of Pathology and electron > microscopist. crap>
> The only question that is of major interest to me on this thread now > is the motivation of people like Noble and Carter. Are they deluded, > are they industry shills, or are they posting such indefensible > nonsense for some other reason? LOL...you have the abject cowardice to claim you'll do some experiment and then set the parameters so that it is impossible to undertake the experiment. You're full of sh.t dear.
These parameters have little to do with virology. The funniest claim of denialists has been that viral isolation relies on a "gold standard" technique and they importantly cite a paper written by Barre-Sinoussi.
Gosh. How smart and scientific! Why, the denialists are complete f.cking loons. They have some SCIENCE!
Trouble is, Barre-Sinoussi is the discoverer of what is now known as HIV-1.
So of course, monty, you will never undertake the experiment. You're a joke!
George M. Carter
Rolf Martens - 15 Sep 2007 08:28 GMT >A dramatic breakthrough event has occurred ! Mr. Carter has finally >responded to a direct scientific question. Unfortunately, as is often [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >presumably, Mr. Carter has some rubber walls he now needs to bounce >off for a while, until he calms down. No need to take any notice of that writer, I think. He sounds like a "pro" misinformer to me.
The facts remain: There is no "HIV", and no "AIDS". See some links from my homepage. You're right to question the "official" story, and the scandal of it goes even further than you seem to know so far.
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
Rolf Martens - 12 Sep 2007 09:55 GMT ><monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message >> ... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >No, it's impressive evidence of the fact that the establishment and all its media are lying horribly about this.
It has been demonstrated since long that there is NO "HIV" nor even ANY OTHER diseasecausing viruses. Zero dead (from this), zero infected, are the correct numbers.
See my hompepage, for instance, with plenty of information from the German virologist Stefan Lanka and some others, who've exposed that big fraud completely, years ago.
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
Death - 12 Sep 2007 14:05 GMT "Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message
> It has been demonstrated since long that there is NO "HIV" nor > even ANY OTHER diseasecausing viruses. Zero dead (from this), zero > infected, are the correct numbers. http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVVirusList.html
Rolf Martens - 12 Sep 2007 15:36 GMT >"Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >http://www.virology.net/Big_Virology/BVVirusList.html With lots of purportedly "diseasecausing viruses", no doubt.
The trouble is, no such has ever been isolated - a process which is quite simple.
Several "pictures of" "such viruses" appear on the Net. Only, they're all fake.
See:
Stefan Lanka exposes the "viral fraud" (article in 2001) http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
Death - 13 Sep 2007 04:45 GMT "Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message
> It has been demonstrated since long that there is NO "HIV" nor > even ANY OTHER diseasecausing viruses. Last Updated: Wednesday, 12 September 2007, 08:26 GMT 09:26 UK
Major Ebola outbreak in DR Congo
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Quarantine
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Death - 25 Aug 2007 02:10 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> Do they think that any amount of reverse transcriptase activity in > "stimulated" cells in a dish is enough to justify saying that a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > compared to the nonsense they've put forth as "evidence" for their > ever-shifting claim. Does cancer pass Koch's postulate? I am not asking about the effects, but the cancer itself.
monty1945@lycos.com - 26 Aug 2007 08:05 GMT "Koch's Postulates" were designed to bypass the scientific method. However, my point about not finding "HIV" in those with "high viral loads" is a place to start, and it makes a lot of people I talk to realize that something may indeed be terribly amiss. If anyone wants to discuss the scientific method and/or how certain "diseases" can be studied with the method, then come on over to my free site and post your ideas. I do require that people cite scientific evidence if they wish to put forth or support a particular claim. You are free to ask questions. No obscenities, racial slurs, personal attacks, etc., which apparently precludes people like Mr. Carter.
Death - 26 Aug 2007 16:05 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> "Koch's Postulates" were designed to bypass the scientific method. > However, my point about not finding "HIV" in those with "high viral > loads" is a place to start, and it makes a lot of people I talk to > realize that something may indeed be terribly amiss. ... " Death" <Death@yourdoor.net> wrote in message
> Does cancer pass Koch's postulate? > I am not asking about the effects, but the cancer itself. OK............ so was that a yes or no?
monty1945@lycos.com - 26 Aug 2007 22:14 GMT Carter stated: "And I rather suspect that there is little likelihood you will ever be exposed to HIV, eh?"
Yes, this is exactly my point - you must have proper controls, and not use volunteers who have stressful lifestyles, which is why I am stepping forward and am willing to be "infected." I have never been exposed to someone else's semen, and therefore I have not been exposed to PGE2 in the rectum, which is highly immunosuppressive. Now if you could actually find "HIV" and infect me, and I died within a few years of PCP, then you would at least be able to make a reasonable argument in the context of a case study.
On the other hand, if someone has a "high viral load" of "HIV" then that person must have an abundance of "HIV" somewhere in his/her body. Ask them if, when they die, you can try to find it. Tell them that they will be doing a great service to humanity. Give them a little money (a pittance compared to what BigPharma is making from the "HIV/AIDS" disaster). And then you can prove all the "denialists" wrong - wouldn't it be so easy to do this? When I explain this to people, they can't understand why it has yet to be done.
If you want to abandon human reason and basic logic, along with the scientific method, Mr. Carter, I can't stop you, but I won't sit still and allow you to attempt to spread your nonsense to people who might take the "miracle drugs" and destroy their livers, when all they need to do is to change their lifestyles, especially diet, drug use, and rectal exposure to semen.
As to the "Koch's Postulates" person, I fail to understand your point. You can clarify it if you want a response from me, but I am only interested in the scientific method, not attempts to bypass it, so you may need to find someone else to play whatever game you intend here. In science, you control for all relevant factors and conduct the relevant, on-point experiments. If you don't do this, what you have might be best called "natural history," or perhaps an argument that at least appears possible, but nothing more. Is it that difficult to put some rats with cancer together with those who don't have cancer (under all kinds of different conditions, especially giving them all kinds of different diets), to determine whether cancer appears "infectious?"
Death - 27 Aug 2007 04:16 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> As to the "Koch's Postulates" person, I'll take the chance you are attempting to address me in your own childish manner.
>I fail to understand your > point. You can clarify it if you want a response from me, but I am > only interested in the scientific method, not attempts to bypass it, > so you may need to find someone else to play whatever game you intend > here. Obviously the question was too hard.
>In science, you control for all relevant factors and conduct > the relevant, on-point experiments. If you don't do this, what you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > giving them all kinds of different diets), to determine whether cancer > appears "infectious?" Ah, cancer floats through the air, that's great, lol.
monty1945@lycos.com - 27 Aug 2007 07:59 GMT Think as you like; you are so incoherent as to be of no interest. I am only interested in the scientific method, not attempts to bypass it. But why don't you ask someone who believes in the KPs this question? I am under no obligation to respond to your irrelevant questions. However, if you decide to take me up on my experimental offer, which will actually demonstrate whether a claim is valid or not, you can let me know.
I will point out, for those who may not have noticed, that if rats are living together, they are going to do more than breath the same air. They are going to do the same kinds of things that humans do that may spread "infectious disease." If this kind of experiment is of no interest to you, then you may do better posting your ideas on a religious newsgroup, for instance.
Death - 27 Aug 2007 14:42 GMT <monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> I will point out, for those who may not have noticed, that if rats are > living together, they are going to do more than breath the same air. Researchers just can't seem to get lab rats to butt-f.ck each-other.
You brought cancer and Koch's postulate up with your statement now you have dodged it twice. If you didn't know more than what others are accredited with saying heck, say so.
<monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
> This still does not answer the question about where the abundance of > "HIV" particles are in those whom you claim have "high viral loads." > As to "expertise," you attack those who have it, like Duesberg, ... > > "...It became acceptable to postulate that when viruses cannot be seen > by EM in cancer cells, ... monty1945@lycos.com - 01 Sep 2007 22:54 GMT Actually, there have been experiments where rats were exposed to PGE2, which is the immunosuppressive molecule in semen. I have it on my web site, on the thread entitled, "Does semen cause AIDS?," along with other studies on PGE2. Thus, you have demonstrated an ignorance of the literature. As to KPs, again, I am not your errand boy. If you feel they are important, then discuss them. My point is that the scientific method is simple and clear; you must isolate and control for all potentially relevant causal factors (and even then you can only have a "theory," not "fact" or "truth"). If you use KPs, you don't have to do this. If you don't understand that, you probably need to read a good book on the history of science.
GMCarter - 07 Sep 2007 15:17 GMT I'd suggest you were kidding but clearly you aren't. You actually claim that some animal test where they're given PGE2 in amounts FAR more than any teaspoon of semen is an explanation for AIDS? That's the best denialists can come up with for an explanation for AIDS?
Truly, profoundly pathetic. LOL...I'm sure you're PGE2 "theory" adheres well to Koch's Postulates! George M. Carter
> Actually, there have been experiments where rats were exposed to PGE2, > which is the immunosuppressive molecule in semen. I have it on my web [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > don't have to do this. If you don't understand that, you probably > need to read a good book on the history of science. gmc - 29 Aug 2007 15:50 GMT > Carter stated: "And I rather suspect that there is little likelihood > you will ever be exposed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > exposed to someone else's semen, and therefore I have not been exposed > to PGE2 in the rectum, which is highly immunosuppressive. Oh for god's sakes. That's the most idiotic bullshit theory I've ever heard. Anal sex has been going on for as long as our species has existed. Men and women both getting it in the a.s. PGE2 in semen does not cause AIDS.
George M. Carter
yansimon52 - 04 Sep 2007 06:30 GMT On Aug 22, 11:07 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Exactly why would anyone want to step forward, after what was done to > one of the few people in the world (Duesberg) with the expertise to [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > compared to the nonsense they've put forth as "evidence" for their > ever-shifting claim. If those so-called scientists or outspoken dissidents who are unable to come up with any solution to solve this aids problem............sooner or later they got to close shop..................no wonder you see alot of alternative centers closed down..................
Rolf Martens - 12 Sep 2007 09:49 GMT >Exactly why would anyone want to step forward, after what was done to >one of the few people in the world (Duesberg) with the expertise to [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >compared to the nonsense they've put forth as "evidence" for their >ever-shifting claim. Actually, there are some *real* critics of the big "HIV"/"AIDS" fraud who're pointing out that there neither is any "HIV" nor any disease that might justifieably be called "AIDS".
That's above all the virologist Stefan Lanka in Germany, and a group "klein-klein-aktion" which he's in.
For some stuff by him in English, see:
Stefan Lanka interview in 1998 and article in 2001:
http://www.sickofdoctors.addr.com/articles/lanka_interview1.htm
Stefan Lanka exposes the "viral fraud" (article in 2001) http://www.neue-medizin.com/lanka2.htm
Article: Are there and can there be diseascausing viruses? http://rolf-martens.com/otherspubs/060301_lanka_no_diseasecausing_viruses.html
Rolf M. Malmö, Sweden www.rolf-martens.com
More on these matters at that website.
Death - 12 Sep 2007 14:26 GMT "Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message
> Actually, there are some *real* critics of the big "HIV"/"AIDS" fraud > who're pointing out that there neither is any "HIV" nor any disease > that might justifieably be called "AIDS". AIDS is a definition, not a disease, but thanks for playing.
Rolf Martens - 12 Sep 2007 15:40 GMT >"Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >AIDS is a definition, not a disease, but thanks for playing. "It's" a "syndrome" whose "definition" has *changed* most radically over the years, and which is a *different* one on different continents.
Which, again, in itself indicates that it's purely a *propagandistic* concept.
Actual different diseases are just being *renamed* "AIDS".
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
Death - 13 Sep 2007 03:51 GMT > >"Rolf Martens" <rolf.martens@comhem.se> wrote in message > >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > "It's" a "syndrome" Ah yes, a syndrome, HIV+OI=AIDS
>whose "definition" has *changed* most radically > over the years, and which is a *different* one on different continents. The only difference is in the CD4 count (HIV).
> Which, again, in itself indicates that it's purely a *propagandistic* > concept. > > Actual different diseases are just being *renamed* "AIDS". Now that is propaganda. The old pneumonia is still pneumonia. It is termed AIDS when you also have a suppressed immune system (HIV).
Rolf Martens - 15 Sep 2007 08:33 GMT >> In article <%LRFi.41467$mp6.37764@bignews9.bellsouth.net>, >Death@yourdoor.net [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >The old pneumonia is still pneumonia. It is termed AIDS when you also >have a suppressed immune system (HIV). The "only" problem with that is, there is no "HIV".
And no "immune system" either - that is, a system existing to combat "enemy invasions" by viruses or bacteria. There are no such "diseasecausing invasions" at all; this whole thing, so "accepted" in the prevailing medicine today, is a hoax. See some sites linked to from my homepage.
Rolf M. www.rolf-martens.com
Qazfez - 22 Aug 2007 12:42 GMT [snip]
> Why have Duesberg, Maniotis, Mullis, Al Bayati, Bauer, Culshaw, and > the other big names never stood up in court to defend any of the > hundreds of people who now sit in USA jails for the crime of not > telling their sex partners about their test results? Maybe it's because - how should I put this? - these people have lives.
Why did they not
> help defend the Bayer corporation when it was accused of infecting > hemophiliacs? What do they do with the monies they have raised > selling their books etc? How is that any of your business?
[snip]
JOHN - 23 Aug 2007 06:33 GMT > Back in the mid to late 1990s there were just a few of really > excellent sites to discuss alternative theories about AIDS. One was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Maniotis had a nice video interview up on YouTube, for the Gary Null > show, but he recently retracted it. http://www.reviewingaids.org/awiki/index.php/Main_Page http://rethinkingaids.com.93.seekdotnet.com/
Virus myth is still there
yansimon52 - 04 Sep 2007 06:27 GMT On Aug 21, 3:05 am, sculdermully2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Back in the mid to late 1990s there were just a few of really > excellent sites to discuss alternative theories about AIDS. One was [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Maniotis the only one brave enough to post his name there? Why can't > Duesberg, Culshaw, or others help out? All those dissidents were barking at the wrong trees........cos those mentioned dissidents were unable to offer any alternatives in dealing with aids....no use talk and talk without finding a solution (a cure) to solve the aids problem.
to find out on how to deal with aids........you got to do it according to the 'Laws Of Nature' such as, if it is a spiritual sickness it got to be done in a spiritual manner......to find out more on how to deal aids by incorporating with some spiritual understanding pls visit this website (http://yang.bluebellpeople.com/index.html)
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