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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / June 2007

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http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=george+michael

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thesak - 28 Jun 2007 00:54 GMT
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=george+michael
Death - 28 Jun 2007 01:04 GMT
"thesak" <don.saklad@gmail.com> wrote in message

He wants to infect others with a clear conscience.
Martin - 28 Jun 2007 12:35 GMT
>http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=george+michael

I read about this last night, but didn't think it was worth commenting
on.

<http://www.rte.ie/arts/2007/0628/michaelg.html>:

"British singer George Michael has revealed he is refusing to have an
HIV test because he is worried about the result tests."

This line is trotted out in most of the reports.

It appears that he's being pressured into taking an 'HIV test' for
some reason, otherwise his refusal to take a test would be down to
personal choice.

Anyway, I think he's very wise not have an 'HIV test.'
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DavidT - 28 Jun 2007 12:46 GMT
>I read about this last night, but didn't think it was worth
>commenting on.

Hmm....
Yet you think an apparent discrepancy in Kenya's reported HIV
prevalence is worth commenting on.
Presumably the National papers think it is worth commenting on,
anyhow.

> It appears that he's being pressured into taking an 'HIV test' for
> some reason, otherwise his refusal to take a test would be down to
> personal choice.

Why do you jump to that conclusion? Surely you can wait til Tuesday
and find out exactly what he says about it.
Martin - 28 Jun 2007 14:16 GMT
>>I read about this last night, but didn't think it was worth
>>commenting on.

>Hmm....
>Yet you think an apparent discrepancy in Kenya's reported HIV
>prevalence is worth commenting on.

Is that the discrepancy you described as "there is no disagreement
here...?"

>Presumably the National papers think it is worth commenting on,
>anyhow.

Hmmm, I don't consider one man's decision not to have an 'HIV test'
very news worthy.

Some newspapers here in the UK give their front page over to the
latest happens in the Big Brother house.  I don't think such 'news' is
very important either.

>> It appears that he's being pressured into taking an 'HIV test' for
>> some reason, otherwise his refusal to take a test would be down to
>> personal choice.

>Why do you jump to that conclusion? Surely you can wait til Tuesday
>and find out exactly what he says about it.

I was commenting on the story, which has already been published.
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DavidT - 28 Jun 2007 17:29 GMT
> >>I read about this last night, but didn't think it was worth
> >>commenting on.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> <http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
> Moible: +447939991519

I also read the story.
Can you please point out to me the bit where it says he has been
"pressured" into taking a test, cos I missed it.

Are you having more reading comprehension troubles?
Martin - 28 Jun 2007 18:18 GMT
>> >> It appears that he's being pressured into taking an 'HIV test' for
>> >> some reason, otherwise his refusal to take a test would be down to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> I was commenting on the story, which has already been published.

>I also read the story.
>Can you please point out to me the bit where it says he has been
>"pressured" into taking a test, cos I missed it.
>
>Are you having more reading comprehension troubles?

Well, let's have a look at what I wrote: "It appears that he's being
pressured into taking an 'HIV test...'"  I was drawing a 'conclusion'
from the article.  And note the word "appears" in the sentence.

You picked up on what I wrote with: "Why do you jump to that
conclusion?"

I explained why I came to that 'conclusion.'  Here's an example:

I made the choice not to have Cornflakes for breakfast this morning. I
wouldn't say I was "refusing" to have Cornflakes, though.  I would
only say that if I felt pressured in to having them.
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Death - 28 Jun 2007 18:31 GMT
"Martin" <martin@hiv-poz.co.uk> wrote in message

> >> I was commenting on the story, which has already been published.

http://www.holymoly.co.uk/news/28/george-michael-refuses-to-have-hiv-test-859.html

Remember the 60 second HIV test?
David Weinshenker - 29 Jun 2007 03:01 GMT
> "Martin" <martin@hiv-poz.co.uk> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Remember the 60 second HIV test?

Someone fill me in on why anyone should care about
this? Like who is "George Michael" and why would it
be the business of anyone except him and his doctor
whether he does or doesn't have any given test performed?

I mean were you planning to get it on with
him (whoever he is) "bareback" or something?

Now if folks want to come up with an -interesting- test, they
should find one to reliably identify the variant HIV strain
that has been suggested as an explanation for the so-called
"elite controller" cases (individuals who "test positive for
HIV antibodies" but never develop active AIDS, even without
anti-viral medications) - there may be a virus subtype out
there that acts like cowpox, building up an immune response
that protects against its more destructive relative without
doing the same kind of direct damage.

(That could put a Whole Different Spin on the whole "bug chasing"/
"gift giving" thing...)

-dave w
Death - 29 Jun 2007 03:35 GMT
"David Weinshenker" <daze39@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> Someone fill me in on why anyone should care about
> this? Like who is "George Michael"

I have no idea outside of the posted article.

>and why would it
> be the business of anyone except him and his doctor
> whether he does or doesn't have any given test performed?

You mean other than the publicity he brought upon himself?

> I mean were you planning to get it on with
> him (whoever he is) "bareback" or something?

Not really my style but thanks for asking.

> Now if folks want to come up with an -interesting- test, they
> should find one to reliably identify the variant HIV strain
> that has been suggested as an explanation for the so-called
> "elite controller" cases ...

Oh yeah, the dudes who test negative for HIV but are told
they have HIV just the same. That would indeed be an interesting test.
David Weinshenker - 29 Jun 2007 03:52 GMT
> > Now if folks want to come up with an -interesting- test, they
> > should find one to reliably identify the variant HIV strain
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Oh yeah, the dudes who test negative for HIV but are told
> they have HIV just the same. That would indeed be an interesting test.

No, the ones who test positive for HIV and yet never come down
with AIDS (despite continued "exposures") - like dairy workers
who got cowpox, and recovered from that, and then never caught
smallpox (while many around them did)...

-dave w
Death - 29 Jun 2007 04:07 GMT
"David Weinshenker" <daze39@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> No, the ones who test positive for HIV and yet never come down
> with AIDS (despite continued "exposures") .......

A disturbing announcement was made at the July 1992 international AIDS conference held in
Amsterdam: Several people with symptoms of AIDS, but who had no evidence of infection with
either HIV-1 or HIV-
2 (the viruses generally believed, at the time, to cause AIDS), had been identified by the U.S.
Centers for Disease Control.

A few weeks later, in early September, Newsweek made an even more shocking announcement: that
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher Dr. Paul Cheney had in his practice 20 CFS patients who had
the same immune system deficiencies as the non-HIV AIDS cases revealed at the Amsterdam
conference.

What wasn't known to most observers was that one of the researchers who had first said publicly
that he was aware of such cases, Dr. Sidhur Gupta of the University of California, Irvine, is
himself a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher.

The fact that some CFS patients were developing exactly the same immune system problems as AIDS
patients, however, raised the questions not only of what was causing that immune system
destruction but also of the relationship that exists between the two syndromes.

The hallmark of the HIV-negative AIDS cases, as established by the Centers for Disease Control,
is a depletion of a type of immune system cell called T4 (or CD4) cells. The T4 cells of AIDS
patients can fall to very low levels and, although recent studies have suggested that there is
no real correlation with health status, a decreasing T4 cell count is generally viewed as a
sign of worsening disease.

The CDC decided to call the HIV-negative, AIDS-like disease "ICL" (an abbreviation for
"idiopathic CD4-positive T-lymphocytopenia," which simply means an unexplained depletion of T4
cells).

Most healthy people have a T4 cell count of approximately 1,000; a T4 cell count below 800 is
considered abnormal. In order to be diagnosed with ICL, a person must have a T4 cell count of
less than 300.

One of the most puzzling things about the ICL cases to AIDS researchers -- other than the fact
that they didn't have HIV -- is that most of the patients do not fit into recognized AIDS "risk
behavior" categories; that is, they were not gay men, IV drug users, or the sexual partners of
people in those risk groups. These cases may, in fact, be dramatic evidence that federal
officials have not told the public the whole truth about the nature and the full scope of the
AIDS epidemic.

The mystery of what role HIV actually plays in causing the immune system deterioration and
symptoms seen in AIDS deepened in early October 1992. The British medical journal The Lancet
reported that five people had received blood from a man later found to be infected with HIV;
however, ten years later, the five transfusion recipients as well as the original, HIV-positive
blood donor remained free of AIDS symptoms and were apparently healthy. The Australian
researchers who reported those cases concluded that these six people were infected with a
non-disease-causing strain, or type, of HIV.

The link between the immune system dysfunction seen in AIDS and in CFS was made explicit in
early 1993 when government scientists admitted that CFS patients, like AIDS patients, suffer a
decline in T4 cells. The government's leading CFS researcher, Dr. Stephen Straus at the
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, published a research paper in The
Journal of Clinical Immunology in which a decrease in the number of T4 cells in CFS patients
was documented.

Dr. Straus proposed a novel mechanism to explain the loss of T4 cells in CFS patients: The T4
cells of CFS patients were not depleted, as they were in AIDS patients, according to Dr.
Straus; they were just hiding in organ tissues. Unfortunately, Dr. Straus was unable to produce
any evidence to support this theory (and still has not done so). Dr. Straus did not suggest
that any of his CFS patients had T4 cell counts so low that they could be identified as ICL
patients.

Meanwhile, Dr. Cheney, in addition to announcing that some of his CFS patients had low enough
T4 cell counts to be considered non-
HIV AIDS cases, reported that as many as 40 percent of his CFS patients also had a close
associate with an illness similar to CFS.

This information -- along with the mystery of why AIDS could develop without HIV infection and
why HIV infection does not always lead to AIDS -- raised the possibility that a virus or
bacteria that spreads more easily than HIV could be attacking people's immune systems.
Franklin Hummel - 29 Jun 2007 15:05 GMT
> The link between the immune system dysfunction seen in AIDS and in CFS was made
> explicit in
> early 1993 when government scientists admitted that CFS patients, like AIDS
> patients, suffer a
> decline in T4 cells.

"Explicit"?  Ha ha ha.

Many, many illnesses have many, many similar symptoms.  That does NOT mean there
is any "explicit" link between their nature or cause.

And the best you can do is come-up with reports from 1992 and 1993?  It's 2007
now, 15 years later.  AIDS research and knowledge has advanced a great deal since
then!

Where are all the RECENT studies of a "link" between AIDS and CFS?  Peer-reviewed
studies published in the last 2-3 years, for instance?

       -- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

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Death - 29 Jun 2007 15:36 GMT
"Franklin Hummel" <hummel@world.std.com> wrote in message

> And the best you can do is come-up with reports from 1992 and 1993?  It's 2007
> now, 15 years later.  AIDS research and knowledge has advanced a great deal since
> then!

Indeed it is 15 years later and during those years people have learned
nothing.

So you say research in AIDS has advanced huh?

AIDS used to be called GRID, now it isn't.

Yep, big advancement in 25 years.
thesak - 29 Jun 2007 16:23 GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease

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