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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / August 2007

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HIV's Effect On White Blood Cells Questioned By New Research

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Alex - 23 May 2007 18:23 GMT
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070521212919.htm

HIV's Effect On White Blood Cells Questioned By New Research

Science Daily - Scientists have refuted a longstanding theory of how
HIV slowly depletes the body's capacity to fight infection, in new research.

The researchers were looking at T helper cells, a class of white blood
cells which recognise infection and co-ordinate the body's immune
defences. They are attacked by HIV, and their numbers gradually
decline in HIV positive patients. It has long been a major puzzle why
this process of depletion is so slow, often taking 10 years or more.

One popular theory has been the "runaway" hypothesis, which says
that T cells infected by HIV produce more HIV virus particles, which
activate more T cells, that in turn become infected, leading to an
uncontrolled cycle of T cell activation, infection, HIV production
and cell destruction.

However, this new study in PLoS Medicine shows that this theory
cannot explain the very slow pace of depletion that occurs in HIV
infection. The research team used a mathematical model of the
processes by which T cells are produced and eliminated to show
that if the runaway theory was correct, then T helper cell numbers
would fall to very low levels over a number of months, not years.

One of the paper's authors is Jaroslav Stark, Professor of Mathematics
at Imperial College London, and Director of the Centre of Integrative
Systems Biology at Imperial. He said: "Scientists have never had a full
understanding of the processes by which T helper cells are depleted
in HIV, and therefore they've been unable to fully explain why HIV
destroys the body's supply of these cells at such a slow rate. Our
new interdisciplinary research has thrown serious doubt on one
popular theory of how HIV affects these cells, and means that
further studies are required to understand the mechanism behind
HIV's distinctive slow process of cellular destruction."

The research team think that one possible explanation could be
that the virus slowly adapts itself over the course of the infection,
but they stress that further analysis is needed to verify this
alternative theory.

Professor Stark adds: "If the specific process by which HIV
depletes this kind of white blood cells can be identified, it could
pave the way for potential new approaches to treatment."

Article: 'Understanding the slow depletion of memory CD4+
cells in HIV infection', PLoS Medicine, 21 May 2007

Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued
by Imperial College London.
Moira de Swardt - 28 May 2007 14:01 GMT
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070521212919.htm
>
> HIV's Effect On White Blood Cells Questioned By New Research
>
> Science Daily - Scientists have refuted a longstanding theory of how
> HIV slowly depletes the body's capacity to fight infection, in new research.

Yeah, right!  According to Alex HIV actually doesn't exist.  A western
plot.  Or something like that.

Alex, get real.  HIV exists.  It causes people to get sick and die
unless medical intervention is made.  Part of that medical treatment
does involve ARVs.  Get over it.
RocketScience - 31 May 2007 01:22 GMT
> >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070521212919.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Alex, get real.  HIVexists.  It causes people to get sick and die
> unless medical intervention is made.  

Wrong. Many HIV positives don't even know they are HIV positive, never
get sick and are fine.

>Part of that medical treatment does involve ARVs.  Get over it.

Wrong again.  ARV's are toxic poisons which are "AIDS by Prescription"

Important video relating to HIV and AIDS.

http://www.aidsfraudvideo.com

http://aidsmyth.addr.com/enteraidsmyth.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Sold-Out-Really-Cause/dp/1556436424
http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-AIDS-Virus-Peter-Duesberg/dp/0895263998
http://aras.ab.ca/rethinkers.php
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/culshaw1.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1430/is_n9_v14/ai_12508167
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aids/chap6.htm
http://www.hiv-aids-factorfraud.com/producer.htm

rocketscience
Moira de Swardt - 31 May 2007 18:28 GMT
"RocketScience" <rocketscience12@gmail.com> wrote in message

>> Alex, get real.  HIVexists.  It causes people to get sick and die
>> unless medical intervention is made.

> Wrong. Many HIV positives don't even know they are HIV positive, never
> get sick and are fine.

Then how do *you* know they're HIV positive?

>>Part of that medical treatment does involve ARVs.  Get over it.

> Wrong again.  ARV's are toxic poisons which are "AIDS by Prescription"

Drivel.  ARV's are, like all medications, toxic.  However, they are an
important part of managing HIV.
Alex - 17 Jun 2007 20:34 GMT
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070521212919.htm
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> unless medical intervention is made.  Part of that medical treatment
> does involve ARVs.  Get over it.

Moira,

The nice thing about the internet is that everyone can read what you
actually wrote.

There is no need for you to tell people what I really think, they
can use google and read it for themselves.

Now, I'm sure you would love for me to have made unsupportable
statements like 'hiv doesn't exist'. The difference is that I don't know
whether: hiv exists; what it really does, if anything; etc.

However, having a minor background in the humanities and
at having learned something  about statistics and surveys, I can
easily say the following:

1) Antenatal Clinic Surveys are not statistically sound, and
therefore, they are unscientific. The way they were interpreted
was laden with presumptions about their representativeness,
especially because they were not representative. They failed
the following tests.

1a) They were too small; usually conisting of a couple of hundred
pregnant women who gave blood at antenatal clinics.

1b) They were not a reflection of the general population.
(They were unrepresentative of children, men, unpregant
women, pregnant women at hospitals, etc.) And what is
more, pregnancy plays havoc with a whole set of tests,
not just the so-called HIV test.

As a 'dissident', I insist on the following:

*Falsifyability*

In other words, hypotheses must be able to be proven wrong,
as well as right. (Or to paraphrase Aristotle's demand for
logical statements, a concise statement is either true, or it is
untrue, and there is no third option - his principium tertii exclusi.)

The characteristic of fields of inquiry that are abandoned by
real scientists, like race (leading to scientific racism), is that
scientific standards such as falsifyability become absent from
the debate. Instead, the field was taken over by the scions of
former plantation owners (in the case of scientific racism) or
it is taken over by money grubbing hacks (like AID$ science),
supported by social activists and multi-billion dollar corporations,
and the existentialist fear that you might have sex and die.

Falsifyability in the AID$ hypothesis is missing when:

1) AIDS kills in 8-10 years after infection. Either it does, or it doesn't.
The copout: an entire group of 'patients' named 'long term non-progressors'.

2) Christine Maggiore has been HIV positive for 20 years,
but she hasn't developed AIDS. The copout: then she must
be testing false positive. HIV is transmitted from mother to
child - unless it isn't (allegedly her daughter was HIV positive,
but her son wasn't?).

3) HIV tests are 99% accurate. Unless they aren't.
The copout: 60 or so conditions that are known and
documented to cause 'false positives'. The tests are either
extremely accurate, or they are not extremely accurate.
Should there really be a third option? There shouldn't be.
But there is - for instance, in a population in which most people
test negative, nearly all of the positive tests are false positives.
And what precisely is a false positive? What causes it, if
these tests and the proteins they test for are so specific?
Either (HIV) ELISA tests for the P24 protein that is specific to
antibodies which are specific to HIV, or it doesn't.

4) The 'HIV test'. It is no more an 'HIV test', than it is an
'AIDS test'. It tests for proteins, that are presumed to be
specific to antibodies, which are presumed to be specific
to HIV.

5) HIV is never directly (let alone routinely) isolated or
cultured from the individual patient.

6) 25 years later, there is no test that (routinely or not) tests
for the whole virus. Astonishing.

I mean, there is so much money going to AIDS, and yet
the standards set are so deplorable.

But I am not a microbiologist, or even an epidemiologist,
so I will stick to surveys and how they are used to drum up
AID$ hysteria and scare entire continents half to death.

7) It is now accepted that ANCs routinely and massively
overstate national HIV prevalence, compared to DHS
surveys. DHS surveys have the benefit of being statistically
sound. And yet there has been no public apology, no mea
culpa, from UNAIDS or any of the organisations who used
these surveys or the data that was based on it.

South Africa went from 19% to 11%. Swaziland (girls 15-19)
went from 32.5% to 6%. Sierra Leone, most dramatically,
went from 7% to under 1%. And now India has cut it's
estimated HIV prevalence in half.

I have said so for many years (in fact since the nineties)
that ANCs are not statistically representative.

8) And yet, -DHS surveys rely on a single, unconfirmed
ELISA, the same test that is being used because it is
so cheap, not because it is so accurate. And yet, no one
in the USA is allowed to be diagnosed 'HIV positive'
on one or even two ELISA tests. In other words,
the standard for testing in surveys, including DHS
surveys, is much lower than testing for individual
diagnosis. And it wouldn't even cost that much
money to do a confirmation Western Blot for the
1,000 or so people who test positive in the 10,000
person DHS surveys. And yet it is not done.

Now, Moira, you can stop misrepresenting what I
believe, and read what I actually do believe.

Alex

For girls in Swaziland, see:
http://www.plusnews.org/AIDSReport.ASP?ReportID=3819&SelectRegion=Southern_Afric
a&SelectCountry=SWAZ

ILAND

In this article, instead of admitting they used a different
survey type, they credit 'awareness'.

" "Kids are getting smarter: they see what is happening; they want
to save themselves," said Albertina Nyatsi, a counsellor with the
Swaziland AIDS Support Organisation (SASO), a counselling
group for HIV-positive people whose teenage members take
HIV prevention messages to high schools."

Whatever.
Alex - 17 Jun 2007 22:49 GMT
It is always interesting to see how accurate the published past
predictions have been.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D0CE4DC123EF93BA25755
C0A967958260


W.H.O. Says 40 Million Will Be Infected With AIDS Virus by 2000
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By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN,
Published: June 18, 1991

QUOTING:

- Several speakers said the infection rates were about to soar in Asia.
- The World Health Organization, whose headquarters are in Geneva,
estimates that groups facing a moderate to high risk of exposure to
AIDS include a half billion heterosexuals with multiple sexual partners;
about 10 million homosexual men who have multiple sex partners;
and up to 5 million drug users who routinely share drug injection equipment.
- He cited one estimate [1991] that as many as a million people were infected
 in India, where few cases have been officially reported.

W.H.O. Says 40 Million Will Be Infected With AIDS Virus by 2000
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By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN,
Published: June 18, 1991
AIDS has struck 1,153 children in Romania, Dr. Gomyko said.

In the Soviet Union, more than 260 children became infected in hospitals
over the last two years, apparently from contaminated equipment. Only
about 500 cases have been detected in the Soviet Union.

Dr. Gromyko said only 1,700 of the 50,000 cases reported to W.H.O.
from Europe were from the Eastern European countries. He said W.H.O.
and Eastern European countries were taking special care to prevent further
transmission from the rapid rise in the number of travelers from other countries.

Switzerland has the highest proportion of AIDS cases per capita in
Western Europe, but France and Italy have reported the largest
numbers of cases, participants at the conference were told. Intravenous
drug injection is a principal cause of AIDS in Italy.

Lack of funds was cited as a major obstacle to stopping AIDS in d
eveloping countries.

Yoweri Kaguta Museveni, the President of Uganda, said most African
governments spent less than 1 percent of their gross national product
on health care. He cited a figure of $3.50 for each person that
sub-Saharan countries spent on average for health in 1987.

Confronting the Cruel Reality Of Africa's AIDS Epidemic
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By ERIK ECKHOLM, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: September 19, 1990

" In Kampala, close to one in four adults carries the virus, an infection level that
several other African cities appear destined to reach if they have not already. "

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9C0CE6D9113BF93AA2575A
C0A966958260


[Question: has 1/4 of Kampalans died of 'HIV/AIDS'? Considering that this was written
16 years ago, it should be obvious that at least they should be dead?
Or turned into 'long term non-progressors'? Or they were cured, by AZT?]

(From the University of Cape Town website)
The HIV epidemic in South Africa
South Africa has one of the fastest growing HIV epidemics in the world.

http://web.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/jmoodie/anc0.html

" Levels of HIV infection vary across different geographic regions in South Africa.
Of the nine provinces, KwaZulu/Natal continues to be the province with the highest
prevalence which showed an increase from 19.90% in 1996 to 32.5% in 1998,
but no further increase in 1999. "

[Question: has a third of the population of KwaZulu/Natal died of AIDS?]
Martin - 17 Jun 2007 23:50 GMT
>It is always interesting to see how accurate the published past
>predictions have been.

LOL.  And, of course, the numbers are constantly being readjusted
downwards now.

India recently lost half of its estimated HIV cases overnight.

But Africa seems like a goldmine for the drugs companies.  On one hand
we have the HIV do-gooders pumping money into Africa, and on the other
we have HIV drug companies taking the money in exchange for their
deadly products.
Signature

<http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
Moible: +447939991519

Moira de Swardt - 30 May 2007 22:28 GMT
"Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message

> HIV's Effect On White Blood Cells Questioned By New Research

As I've remarked before, Alex will post this multiple times.  His usual
modus operandi.
Alex - 18 Jun 2007 18:59 GMT
> "Alex" <avdeelen.REMOFETHIS1@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
>
> > HIV's Effect On White Blood Cells Questioned By New Research
>
> As I've remarked before, Alex will post this multiple times.  His usual
> modus operandi.

You mean I purposely repost and add 'repost' to the subject line. :-/
There was a glitch in the software (which led to the word 'repost' being
added to the subject line as well).

Alex
monty1945@lycos.com - 14 Aug 2007 06:28 GMT
Moira:

I have asked this of many "orthodox" folks, because I would like to
take a version of the "Duesberg Challenge."  If I am to be infected
with "HIV," from what source will you obtain it?  In order to follow
the scientific method, we must isolate all potentially relevant
variables.  If you give me blood from someone said to be "HIV
positive," I will be exposed to all kinds of foreign antigens, which
have an immuno-suppressive effect (though the molecular-level evidence
is clear, look at the mortality statistics for those who get a lot of
blood transfusions).

If you can isolate "HIV," that is, an abundance of particles that fit
the textbook description of "HIV," without doing anything more than
taking a sample from someone said to be "HIV infected" or "dying of
AIDS" (no "stimulation" of samples), then perhaps one day a person
like myself can take the Duesberg Challenge.  Unfortunately, this will
never occur.  Do you realize that it is not possible to find "HIV" in
amounts that could do harm, even in someone with a "high viral load?"
How is that possible, Moira?  I'm more than willing to put up the
money to do this experiment, but only if I am wrong.  If you are
wrong, then you pay for the expenses.  Are you going to "put your
money where your mouth is?"  Or are you like Mr. Carter and the
others?
Moira de Swardt - 15 Aug 2007 15:59 GMT
<monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message

> Moira:

> I have asked this of many "orthodox" folks, because I would like to
> take a version of the "Duesberg Challenge."  If I am to be infected
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> is clear, look at the mortality statistics for those who get a lot of
> blood transfusions).

> If you can isolate "HIV," that is, an abundance of particles that fit
> the textbook description of "HIV," without doing anything more than
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> money where your mouth is?"  Or are you like Mr. Carter and the
> others?

You could try having unprotected penetrative sex (especially anal sex) with
someone with a high viral load.

Me?  I wouldn't do that.  Last night the niece of the tea lady at the firm
where I'm helping out died.  Her aunt confirmed it was AIDS.  I'm a bit hazy
on the science.  It's the people who are affected who concern me.  And just
about everyone in South Africa is affected in some way or other at some
time.  :-(
monty1945@lycos.com - 19 Aug 2007 06:13 GMT
No, one could not have semen inserted in one's rectum for these
purposes, Moira, because that would demonstrate nothing.  In science,
you have to isolate variables, and semen contains the highly
immunosuppressive molecule, PGE2.  My guess is that you were not even
aware of this.  I don't mind a person who says something like, "I just
don't have the time to look into the science," so long as that person
does not make ignorant statements while acting the role of apologist.
I just hope you can open your mind and start to do some actual
research.  I have a large number of relevant experimental data on my
web site, along with commentary, for example.

Again, I ask the question, why can't those who talk about patients
with "high viral load" never find actual virus particles that meet the
textbook description of "HIV" in these people?  If you don't think
that is ridiculous, then what point is there in discussing it
further?  I am willing to put up my own money.  We will find a living
person with "high viral load" who is willing to volunteer.  We will
then take samples and put them under an EM, and if an abundance of
particles that meets the textbook description of "HIV" is found, I
will pay for it, but if not, you will pay for all the experimental
costs.

Can you please explain why you would not take me up on this offer?  If
you don't have the money to put up, you could ask other apologists to
"chip in" for it.
gmc - 19 Aug 2007 17:35 GMT
> No, one could not have semen inserted in one's rectum for these
> purposes, Moira, because that would demonstrate nothing.  In science,
> you have to isolate variables, and semen contains the highly
> immunosuppressive molecule, PGE2.  

First, you must have evidence to support this claim.

Second, presuming you are able to do that, you must further have evidence
that there are physiologically or clinically relevant levels of PGE2 in semen
to affect an individual. PGE2 doesn't replicate. HIV does.

Your other questions, as usual, reflect a dismal lack of awareness of the
data on HIV isolation, titers and pathology of HIV infection. Let alone
issues like sanctuary sites.

Of course, you could ask David and Michael B of ersatz "act up/sf" fame--but
unfortunately, those two guys living healthy with HIV both died of AIDS.

Semen does not cause AIDS. HIV in semen can lead to transmission of HIV which
then has a very strong likelihood of causing AIDS.

Ignorance is death, dear.

Yep. Back to annoy many of you here again.
George M. Carter
Death - 20 Aug 2007 14:24 GMT
"gmc" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message

> Of course, you could ask David ...

lol, the ghost of Carter returns

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