Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / AIDS / May 2007
HIV drugs fail patients
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Martin - 22 May 2007 13:54 GMT Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV drugs fail.
<http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/821F9F52-A44A-4D7F-B6D8-9A281D4B4CCC.asp>: "A study of 195 men who have sex with men (MSM) in the United States, all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion."
 Signature <http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
GMCarter - 22 May 2007 16:06 GMT >Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV >drugs fail. Darling no one has EVER said that ARV are perfect. Far from it. Resistance develops in people naive to ARV who have phenotypically susceptible HIV. HIV mutates.
That is not news. The horror is that more newly infected people have fewer ARV options when infected with already drug resistant virus, especially if it is a non-nucleoside reverse transcriptor inhibitor class of drug resistance.
And ARV are unnecessarily expensive because Pharma sucks up to the parasites of Wall Street and rapes people with perversions of patent law. Rape? No, genocide. They only are interested in profit. They're despicable beyond belief.
And ARV can have significant side effects.
No one here or anywhere I know has ever said ARV are the perfect solution. Nor is ARV the ONLY treatment for managing HIV disease. Multivitamin/'mineral supplementation is a key intervention, both for reducing morbidity and mortality and slowing disease progression. Prophylactic drugs for those with low CD4 counts. Botanical medicines may play an important role in reducing side effects of ARV and/or slowing HIV disease progression.
But no matter WHAT way you try to spin information to satisfy your dismal delusions, ARV is better than dying of AIDS.
George M. Carter
><http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/821F9F52-A44A-4D7F-B6D8-9A281D4B4CCC.asp>: >"A study of 195 men who have sex with men (MSM) in the United States, >all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance >mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion." Martin - 22 May 2007 17:53 GMT >>Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >>them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV >>drugs fail.
>Darling no one has EVER said that ARV are perfect. Far from it. >Resistance develops in people naive to ARV who have phenotypically >susceptible HIV. HIV mutates. If the congregation is to be believed HIV goes through every possible mutation several times a day in someone who's infected.
Which makes it even more odd that HIV takes so long to develop into AIDS. Even those who worship the virus and the HIV drugs give this a typical figure of eight to ten years. Or in my case (at least) thirteen years and still counting... During that time I don't recall having a single symptom or complaint associated with HIV.
>That is not news. The horror is that more newly infected people have >fewer ARV options when infected with already drug resistant virus, >especially if it is a non-nucleoside reverse transcriptor inhibitor >class of drug resistance. And, of course, they have the option not to take ARVs. I wonder how many patients are given that option. For many of us who are diagnosed HIV+ taking the deadly meds is seen as a right of passage.
>And ARV are unnecessarily expensive because Pharma sucks up to the >parasites of Wall Street and rapes people with perversions of patent >law. Rape? No, genocide. They only are interested in profit. They're >despicable beyond belief. So, those who don't believe HIV=AIDS=Death are denialists and the drug companies are committing genocide. And to fit in with your Nazi fetish, presumably those of us who have been diagnosed HIV+ are Jews (which would explain why men are being advised to get circumcised).
What does that make you? A German Nazi doctor carrying out freaky experiments on Jews?
 Signature <http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
GMCarter - 22 May 2007 22:42 GMT >>>Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >>>them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >If the congregation is to be believed HIV goes through every possible >mutation several times a day in someone who's infected. HIV mutation rates are high--but that doesn't necessarily mean that progression is rendered slower or more rapid.
>Which makes it even more odd that HIV takes so long to develop into >AIDS. Even those who worship the virus and the HIV drugs give this a >typical figure of eight to ten years. Or in my case (at least) >thirteen years and still counting... During that time I don't recall >having a single symptom or complaint associated with HIV. Bully for you! I've heard that story before. Mostly from people who subsequently developed a series of OIs and died.
George M. Carter
>>That is not news. The horror is that more newly infected people have >>fewer ARV options when infected with already drug resistant virus, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >What does that make you? A German Nazi doctor carrying out freaky >experiments on Jews? Brian Mailman - 22 May 2007 18:53 GMT >>Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >>them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV >>drugs fail. > > Darling no one has EVER said that ARV are perfect. Didn't notice the new sock?
B/
GMCarter - 22 May 2007 22:41 GMT >>>Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >>>them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Didn't notice the new sock? Not at first, no.
crack baby - 22 May 2007 16:41 GMT Martin wrote...
> Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take > them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance > mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion." The drugs failed because they weren't taken properly. Not that AIDS qualifies as "life" per se, but the drugs do maintain some sort of state of animation, but it requires that the drugs be taken on a very precise schedule or the virus evolves resistance.
Since most AIDS patients are crackheads and crackheads are too cracked out to remember to wear condoms or use clean needles, so they are also too cracked out to remember to take their antiviral medications. Even a single missed dose is enough to start the virus on the path towards resistance, and the semi-conscious haze crackheads exist in means they will miss most or all doses for weeks or months in a row. Eventually the virus evolves resistance to each of the improperly-taken drugs, and every new crackhead he infects will not respond to any of those particular drugs, even if they did manage to follow the correct dosing schedule.
I'm not sure what you are criticizing here. The drugs aren't perfect, but until you wave your magic wand and invent a cure or at least a perfect therapy with no side-effects, they are all idiots with HIV have, and it is not my problem that retarded people can't follow directions properly. Perhaps we should treat them like we treat TB patients, and offer them a choice of either having a nurse visit them every day to personally observe them swallow their pills, or they can sit their a.s in jail like that dude in Arizona until they are either cured or die.
GMCarter - 22 May 2007 16:55 GMT snip
>Since most AIDS patients are crackheads and crackheads are too cracked Another lie from Bigot land-filled with anonymous, gutless little cowardly sh.ts like you and "death." Oh..wait...sock puppets for the same Diablo by any other name a.shole!
LOL.
What a dismal little life you have.
Death - 26 May 2007 03:46 GMT "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
> Another lie from Bigot land-filled with anonymous, gutless little > cowardly sh.ts like you and "death." Oh..wait...sock puppets for the > same Diablo by any other name a.shole! Wrong again, go figure.
ListingsLocal 6 News Team
Generic Drugs: Just As Good For Less? Patents Let Drug Developers Get Profits Steve Sobek, Staff writer
UPDATED: 8:40 am EDT April 17, 2007
Alison Dickman takes seven drugs every day. All but one carries a brand name. But the 28-year-old from Jenkintown, Pa., said that one no-name drug saves her about $15 to $20 per month.
"I wish all my drugs were generic, because I probably spend hundreds of extra dollars per month on brand names," said Dickman of the prescriptions she takes for asthma and allergies.
Generic drugs use the chemical names for the active ingredients in brand-name drugs. The active ingredient in Prozac, for example, is fluoxetine. What makes them different, then?
Names Change, Product Does Not
The names, along with their price, may lead some consumers to believe generics are different or not as effective as the better-known pills, said Sarah Ray, a retail pharmacist for Aurora Health Care in Milwaukee, Wis.
"I reassure them and let them know that it is the same medication," Ray said. "I take the same medications and would refer them for a relative of mine."
Pharmaceuticals are big business in the United States. Consumers shelled out $154.5 billion in 2001 to try and cure what ails them, according to the National Institute for Health Care Management, a nonprofit group based in Washington, D.C.
In 2001, generic drugs accounted for about 50 percent of all prescription drug purchases in the United States, according to the Food and Drug Administration, and the Congressional Budget Office said their use saves consumers about $8 billion to $10 billion a year at retail pharmacies.
Just Like Marketed Brands
Just like brand-name drugs, the FDA must approve the generic versions. They are identical to brand-name drugs in dosage, safety, strength, quality, the way they work and the way they are taken, according to the FDA.
"It's (just like) the brand name that's advertised," said Jerry Flanagan, health care policy director for the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, a nonprofit consumer group based in Santa Monica, Calif. "In order to be approved, they have to have the same chemical makeup."
The original brand-name drug is more expensive because the pharmaceutical company takes on the research, development and marketing costs of bringing the drug to market and must recover that investment. Companies that make the generic versions don't have that overhead and are able to charge much less.
Patents Drive Market
Most patents granted by the FDA for new drugs last for 20 years after the patent's filing. Frequently, the term seems shorter because patents are obtained before the drugs make it to market. When the patent expires, other companies can apply to make generic versions.
Before the patent runs out, the initial maker essentially has a monopoly on the profits from the drug, Flanagan said.
"They want to extend that kind of exclusive market for as long as they can," Flanagan said. Beginning with the Hatch-Waxman Act, passed by Congress in 1984, companies began getting extensions of up to five years on their patents to help make up for the time drugs spend under review by the FDA. Even with an extension, a drug's patent cannot last more than 14 years from the date of its approval.
The FDA receives more than $300 million of its annual funding through user fees paid by the companies that submit new drug applications. Because of this, some don't believe the agency can be impartial when deciding on which drugs to approve.
"We don't have an independent regulator," Flanagan said.
Even for just the time of the patent and the possible extension, the allure of producing the drugs is great for the big-name pharmaceutical companies, Flanagan said.
"If you can say this is the drug you need to save your life, ... you essentially have a monopoly control over life-saving drugs," he said.
But Flanagan said the patents are a good ideal on "some level. They allow companies to recoup investments."
Lower Costs For All
Once a drug's patent does expire, Ray said, the savings benefit consumers, pharmacies and insurance companies.
"The cost, overall, is less for the insurance plans," she said. "They tend to pass those savings on to the pharmacists ... The savings are also passed on to the patients."
That's why Ray said she uses generic drugs over brand-name drugs when she can.
"We give generic unless we're told otherwise," Ray said.
Dickman, who said she wishes she could save more with generic medicines, said she understands why big pharmaceutical companies would deserve patents for a few years to recoup their investments.
"But I do feel that the consumers really should have more low-cost options," she said. "I am lucky that I can afford all the brand-name medicines I take, but many Americans cannot."
Finding Generics
One way to find out if a generic drug exists for the brand-name drug you take is to enter the drug into the Drugs@FDA database. The site also features lists of drug approvals by month and a downloadable database file of the drugs.
You can also ask your pharmacist or your doctor about the availability of generic drugs.
crack baby - 26 May 2007 16:31 GMT Death wrote...
> "GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > "I wish all my drugs were generic, because I probably spend hundreds of extra dollars per month > on brand names," said Dickman of the prescriptions she takes for asthma and allergies. She should go catch AIDS, then she wouldn't have to pay anything for her pills.
Death - 26 May 2007 17:51 GMT "crack baby" <fred@crackwhoremagazine.com> wrote in message
> Death wrote... > > > > "I wish all my drugs were generic, because I probably spend hundreds of extra dollars per month > > on brand names," said Dickman of the prescriptions she takes for asthma and >allergies.
> She should go catch AIDS, then she wouldn't have to pay anything for her pills. I'm sure she would rather pay for her meds and pass on the filthy dis-ease.
http://natureproducts.net/Medicine/Immune_tea.html
HIV positive Martin was asking about tea use instead of say.....AZT.
Martin - 22 May 2007 18:01 GMT >Martin wrote... >> Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance >> mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion."
>The drugs failed because they weren't taken properly. Oh, that's right: blame the patient.
>Not that AIDS qualifies as "life" per se, but the drugs do maintain some sort of >state of animation, but it requires that the drugs be taken on a >very precise schedule or the virus evolves resistance. You're confusing HIV with AIDS. It often happens, especially since the two were merged to become HIV/AIDS.
I note that BBC News Online now refer to it as "HIV/Aids." Note how 'AIDS' has become 'Aids.' Perhaps they know something we don't.
 Signature <http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
Death - 24 May 2007 01:06 GMT > >Martin wrote... > >> Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I note that BBC News Online now refer to it as "HIV/Aids." Note how > 'AIDS' has become 'Aids.' Perhaps they know something we don't. Study warns of skyrocketing HIV rate August 19, 2006 at 9:56 PM by The Advocate
Study warns of skyrocketing HIV rate
Friday, August 18, 2006 / 12:10 PM
HIV prevalence is set to skyrocket among gay men in the Western world as they age, a University of Pittsburgh researcher said Thursday at the international AIDS conference in Toronto.
The Pittsburgh study, a review of papers published in journals, indicates that the number of new cases of HIV has been rising by about 1.9 percent each year since 2001, meaning that as gay men as a group get older, more and more of them will become HIV-positive, Agence-France Presse reported.
"Ongoing incidence rates at this level will yield very high HIV prevalence rates within each generation of gay men," University of Pittsburgh researcher Ron Stall told AFP.
Although only one in 12 gay men age 20 was HIV-positive in North America and Europe in 2001, Stall and other researchers project that the rate could rise to one in four by the time they turn 30. At age 60, the projections suggest that 58 percent of the men could be infected.
The numbers are more dire for gay men of color. Four percent of them between the ages of 15 and 22 are currently infected, while 15 percent between the ages of 23 and 29 are infected.
At an average 4 percent annual rate of increase in new infections, three-quarters of black gay men who are now 23-29 will be HIV-positive by the time they are 50.
"It's not a new story; it has been repeated time and again in the literature in the past . . . an almost unbelievable incidence rate," Stall said to AFP. "African-American men who have sex with men suffer among the highest HIV prevalence rates of any risk group in the world."
The report's findings only underscore the need for better ways of preventing HIV infection, instead of just treating its effects.
"HIV is still an incurable disease," Ronald Valdiserri, deputy director of the National Center for HIV at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told AFP. "In the United States, 5 percent (of the budget for HIV) is spent on prevention."
He added: "America is more interested on treating this disease than preventing it. We can't treat our way out of this epidemic, even as a rich country." (The Advocate)
rocketscience - 23 May 2007 00:35 GMT > Martin wrote... > > Those 'wonderful'HIVdrugs are failing patients even before they take [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > sit their a.s in jail like that dude in Arizona until they are either > cured or die. Important video relating to HIV and AIDS.
http://www.aidsfraudvideo.com
http://aidsmyth.addr.com/enteraidsmyth.htm http://www.amazon.com/Science-Sold-Out-Really-Cause/dp/1556436424 http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-AIDS-Virus-Peter-Duesberg/dp/0895263998 http://aras.ab.ca/rethinkers.php http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/culshaw1.html http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1430/is_n9_v14/ai_12508167 http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aids/chap6.htm http://www.hiv-aids-factorfraud.com/producer.htm
rocketscience
Larry Farrell - 22 May 2007 18:57 GMT > Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take > them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance > mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion." Talk about quote mining and mis-interpretation!
Did the possibility of drug resistant mutant strains of HIV being transmitted to the seroconverting patients ever occur to you?
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Martin - 22 May 2007 22:22 GMT >> Those 'wonderful' HIV drugs are failing patients even before they take >> them. Presumably this is the groundwork being laid to explain why HIV [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> all of whom seroconverted between 1999 and 2003, found drug resistance >> mutations in nearly 16% shortly after their seroconversion."
>Talk about quote mining and mis-interpretation! You disagree with the findings of the study?
>Did the possibility of drug resistant mutant strains of HIV being >transmitted to the seroconverting patients ever occur to you? According to HIV theory the virus is constantly mutating. This is one of the reasons given for over 20 years of HIV vaccine development failure.
HIV is alleged to mutate so often that it goes through every combination possible in the host's body several times a day.
Even you and your fellow HIV worshipers must realise that if the virus is resistant to a particular drug, that drug fails the patient.
And, yes, I'm aware of your church's answer to that difficult problem: give several drugs at once. If at first you don't succeed...
 Signature <http://www.hiv-poz.co.uk/>
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